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The Current Transcript for May 30, 2023

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

DANIELLE SMITH: Well, to paraphrase our dear friend Ralph Klein, welcome to Another Miracle on the Prairies.

[crowd cheering]

MATT GALLOWAY: In an election that was about many things from leadership to the economy, Albertans last night sent Danielle Smith back to the Premier's office with a majority government. This morning, we reconvene the political panel we picked up riding Calgary Transit a few weeks ago. After a very long night, Naheed Nenshi, Jeromy Farkas and Mike Solberg are here in just a moment. Also this morning, these are high stress times in BC's busiest emergency department. Doctors at Surrey General say patients suffering from heart attacks and miscarriages are being treated in hallways and that those doctors have been told not to speak publicly about the crisis. In an hour, one ER doc who is speaking up on whether he would send his family for care at his hospital. And then

SOUNDCLIP

DEREK GEE: It will be hard to repeat as you’re out like this. But luckily, I left myself room by not winning anything. So there's always room for improvement.

MG: Derek Gee was the only Canadian competing this year in the legendary Italian cycling race, the Giro d'Italia. He didn't win, but he earned an army of fans for his grit and tenacity. Coming up, what it takes to ride up Italian mountains with the best in the world. But we begin with the vote in Alberta. Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current.

[Music: Theme]

ALBERTA ELECTION

Guests: Naheed Nenshi, Jeromy Farkas, Michael Solberg

SOUNDCLIP

DANIELLE SMITH: We look after each other, we take care of each other and we must remember that there is much more, much more that unites us than divides us. And we will need to be unified in the days and years ahead because there is so much work to do together.

MG: In the end, Danielle Smith will keep her job as Alberta's premier. Her United Conservative Party won 49 out of 87 seats, beating Rachel Notley's New Democrats.

SOUNDCLIP

RACHEL NOTLEY: You've all shown incredible dedication and passion and I am forever grateful for your support. We ran a strong, principled campaign and it was based on our beliefs.

[crowd cheering]

MG: And so where does this leave Alberta and where does it leave Alberta's relationship with the rest of the country? Joining me now, three people we met in Calgary a few weeks back while riding transit. Michael Solberg, partner with New West Public Affairs, previously a staffer in the government of former Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Naheed Nenshi who was the mayor of Calgary for three terms, and Jeromy Farkas, a former city councillor. Good morning, everyone.

ALL GUESTS: Good morning.

MG: Mike, you were at the UCP campaign headquarters last night. As I say, probably a very long night with very little sleep. How did the UCP win and why did the party win?

MICHAEL SOLBERG: Well, yes, it was late, Matt, and thanks for having me on. Yeah, I think the party did well last night because it was a resounding rebuke of the NDP style going into this campaign. You know, I said this before, the NDP focussed this election on Danielle Smith and her flaws and her character and her competency at their own peril. Voters clearly wanted to talk about the broader issues like the economy, affordability and other things that affect their livelihoods rather than, you know, this personality driven drama. You know, despite how important some of the remarks may or may not have been, they wanted to talk about the broader issues. And I think that that's the result we saw last night.

MG: Jeromy, you and I spoke about this in Calgary. Danielle Smith has made all sorts of abhorrent or controversial remarks as people have characterized them. Her past has caught up with her in terms of some of the things that she has said. She was caught up in controversies, including having the province's ethics commissioner say she was in breach of the Conflict of Interest Act as Premier. Why didn't those questions about leadership land?

JEROMY FARKAS: Well, I think it might have been. There was just too much of it all at once. So it became, perhaps a cynical view would be that the public was sort of inoculated or desensitized to it. But the polling that even the CBC and others have commissioned shows that leadership and trust are important issues among the voter base here in Alberta. But they probably rank or say number four and number five. Far above that are issues around affordability, the economy, education, health care. And I think it's ironic in that the NDP focussed on, rather, their focus on Danielle Smith as an individual sort of sucked up the oxygen and it didn't allow them to be able to talk about what their own plans were. And I really think that in hindsight, the debate was a turning point where you had the NDP leader on the attack, but Danielle was able to sort of use that as an opportunity to stay really focused, positive in her own way on what the UCP plans were. So I think the ballot box questions didn't really have answers coming from the NDP based on what they were using their time to say and to share. And I think it bears repeating that this was really, really, really close. So the difference between winning and losing here was about 2000 votes out of a province of four plus million.

MG: Naheed Nenshi, you call this election an existential crisis for Alberta. Where does the result leave the province?

NAHEED NENSHI: Well, as Jeromy says, it was unbelievably close. But the interesting thing was this is one of those situations where the score doesn't tell you much about the game. So we have a five-vote majority here for the UCP, which is by far the smallest we've ever seen in Alberta. And in fact, Jeromy, it wasn't 2000 votes, but according to economist Trevor Toomey, I kind of checked his math, it's too early in the morning in Alberta, it was actually 1.3, 1300 votes. So 0.07% of votes cast would have made this an NDP majority. And the strange but on the other hand, the difference in popular vote for the UCP was very large. Mike can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was almost 8%. And so in one way, it was lopsided, in one way, it was unbelievably close. But it actually talks to one thing that I think Mike and Jeromy didn't highlight, which is the structural challenge that the NDP had, which we've been saying since the beginning of the campaign. They really only had one path to victory and it was a tiny one, a narrow one. They had to thread the needle and they had to win every single seat they were competitive in. And in fact, they lost one or two that surprised me, and then they lost about half of the competitive ones. So in the end, it was a much tougher road for them and they just weren't able to do it.

MG: What do you think, and I'll ask you this, Naheed, what do you think gave the UCP the Edge? When we were in Calgary, we heard from a number of voters who were worried in particular about the NDP and what the NDP might do with the economy. What gave the UCP the edge in this?

NAHEED NENSHI: I think there's a couple of things. One is history. You know, when you've been voting the same way for generations and generations, it's hard to change. You know, 10 years ago, the NDP wouldn't even have cracked double digits in the vote in Calgary. And now, we have a situation where the province is split almost 50-50. This is very new and different. So it was hard for people to break habits. Number two is I think it's fair to say that the NDP really wasn't able to change the channel to their economic plan. You know, having analyzed the economic platforms, not only were they close to one another, I would argue that the NDP has probably edged out the UCP, but they were stuck with this millstone that they don't know how to manage the economy which has been stuck with NDP governments forever. And I think that that was a challenge. I think people didn't understand what they were going to do about affordability. I don't 100% agree with Michael. I think that it was right to paint Danielle Smith with all this stuff because it wasn't just little random things she said. It was some pretty vile and awful things, but they also needed to be able to switch channels to Rachel Notley being a better leader. And again, 1300 votes would have made the difference.

MG: Mike, The NDP had what, a two-year lead in polls before this election actually unfolded this year. Where do you think the NDP fell short?

MICHAEL SOLBERG: Well, I think on my previous point. They relied too much on the negatives of Danielle Smith to boost their support and it just didn't happen. You know, granted, this is close per Jeromy's point, per Naheed’s point. There's eight ridings here that were decided by 1.5% or less. We're talking 385 votes. This thing was razor close, but nowhere near the amount of support that the NDP needed to make this a definitive victory for their side. And I truly think it's because their campaign narrative was a rebuke of Danielle Smith and nothing else. And what a waste. You know, Rachel Notley is a very credible candidate. She's done an enormous amount of work to drag the NDP from a fringe, frankly fringe party that holds fringe views to the mainstream and make it a competitive alternative to the conservative juggernaut that's existed in here for so long. And they wasted that opportunity by focusing so much on Danielle Smith rather than the positives of Rachel Notley and even, frankly, some smart public policy that the NDP put forward. But they did not do a good enough sales job and they do so at their own peril. And they did the same thing, Matt, in 2019, which is even more depressing for them, I imagine, as they tried and tested another failed strategy from only four years ago. So I wonder how they're feeling this morning with so many opportunities to defeat this party, a party that was limping into the writ period, a party that was riddled with so many gaffes from its leader, yet they still fumbled the football at the one yard line. So, you know, I'm happy for the UCP, but I can imagine there's some depressed New Democrat supporters this morning.

MG: Jeromy, do you think this was a victory for the UCP or for Danielle Smith?

JEROMY FARKAS: Well, I think both parties fared pretty poorly when you compare the vote shares to 2019. There wasn't much movement on the UCP side and the NDP's gains didn't really come from new supporters. It just came from cannibalizing the other left of centre supporters. So really, we're in a very polarized situation. But I think I'm of two minds over this. On the one hand, you could say that under circumstances like this, which should be ideal for the NDP with a really tortured leader on the UCP side with a scandal prone and just an incredible record of mismanagement on the UCP and for the last four years, if the NDP can't run the table under circumstances like this, then will they ever? But then I also consider the fact that the NDP, as Mike said, was in the wilderness for so long in this province. And to go in just eight short years from being a fringe party to being within 1300 votes of forming the next government as well as out fundraising the mainstream Conservative Party, that's a tremendous achievement. So I think on the UCP side, there's going to be a lot of hard questions about how did this go so wrong, especially with how good the economic conditions are. Given how favourable the economy is right now in Alberta, it's really astonishing that this was so close. And I think it says worse about the UCP, honestly, than the NDP when you think about some of the other very compelling races where, say, Doug Ford and the PCs really walked away with it.

MG: How long do you expect Danielle Smith to stick around as leader of this party? I mean, the Conservatives in Alberta have a tradition of sending people through the door before their term ends. And again, there was this narrative, vote for the party, don't vote for the leader. Do you think that she sticks around?

JEROMY FARKAS: Well, I think conservatives have a history of being brave when nothing is on the line. So the fact that Redford, Stelmach and Klein were pushed out was because of the large margins. And this is really the best case scenario for Premier Danielle Smith in that the party has everything to lose by trying to force her out. So she's in an incredibly strong position and most of all, she has fewer mouths to feed, fewer people to keep happy. She has a lot more control over the Cabinet composition. So I think she's in an incredibly strong position. But it really calls into question in terms of who is really pulling the strings when it comes to that UCP organization with some fringe groups like Take Back Alberta.

MG: We’ll come back to that position and what it may mean for a mandate, but Naheed Nenshi, when we were in Calgary, you said that the NDP has never missed an opportunity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Rachel Notley says that she will stay as Leader of the Opposition. Should she?

NAHEED NENSHI: Oh yeah, absolutely. Had she resigned last night, that would have put the NDP in a very, very difficult position. So I think it absolutely makes sense for her to stay for her to guide the NDP both through its role as the largest opposition in Alberta's history, but also through a conversation with itself about what it wants to be going forward. Are we going to stay with this two-party state? What is that going to look like? What does that mean to some of the base of the NDP? So I think that it's absolutely critical that the NDP have some stability at the moment. And I thought, by the way, that both candidates delivered the perfect speech last night. Hers was light hearted. It was very much reflecting on where they've been. And if I say so, I think that Danielle Smith gave the perfect speech last night talking about how she's going to move forward. You know, the concern that we've all had is which Danielle Smith is going to show up to work? And the one that spoke last night that really reached out to the other side that said, I want to be the premier for everyone, I hope that one is the one that comes to work. But as Jeromy says, she's dealing with a caucus that's going to have very different priorities. Those priorities are probably closer to her own inner values than what she knows she needs to do to govern. So it'll be very interesting to watch a lot of the inside baseball now to see what actually happens within the government.

MG: That's a really surprising thing for you to say and much more generous than I think a lot of people. You've been very, very critical of her, somebody that you've known, as you mentioned, all the way back to university. For you to say that she made the perfect speech and that you were encouraged by what she said last night I think is surprising. It would be surprising to a lot of people.

NAHEED NENSHI: Yeah. And, you know, I still wear purple. Even though I did endorse the NDP late in the game, I do still believe that we've got to work with whatever we come up with. And it's funny because I had sort of pre-written in my head a post-mortem in which I was going to use the line. It used to be that in every victory speech of anybody anywhere, you always heard a line that was something like, and to those who didn't vote for me, I'm going to be the best premier ever and try and earn your trust and earn your vote. And I was going to write a piece going, you never hear that anymore. And Danielle Smith started with that yesterday. So maybe I was in a soft spot late at night listening to it. But, you know, she was certainly tough. She was tough about the federal government. She was tough about energy. She specifically talked about potential emissions caps and how she would fight them, but she did so in a way that really tried to bring people together. And I don't know how Mike and Jeromy feel, but I thought that was a really good way to start her new mandate off.

MG: Jeromy?

JEROMY FARKAS: Yeah, I'd agree with that. And it's an interesting contrast with Jason Kenney. I think by the time that Danielle started in her attack on Trudeau, Jason Kenney was actually speaking in French. So it's an interesting thread that they're going to try to needle.

MG: Mike, what about for you? Were you surprised at that magnanimous victory speech as Naheed Nenshi has characterized it?

MICHAEL SOLBERG: No, no. And I think it was important that she did that. She needed a message for Albertans who are very split in this result. It was the most polarizing election in 100 years and she needed a message for the rest of the nation as well. And, you know, I agree with Naheed. I thought it was a great speech and frankly, I'm hopeful that the Premier has a renaissance here as she prepares to govern this party moving into the next, govern this party in the end and the province going into the next four years.

MG: She has a mandate, but also, as you said, a divided province. What's she going to do with that mandate in that province?

MICHAEL SOLBERG: Well, that's the hard work that begins now. Listen, she needs to go and create some unity within her caucus, first and foremost. And then I believe she needs to go and put her cabinet together. And with that will come establishing a mandate for that cabinet building a legislative agenda. But listen, she needs to have some mainstream views here and to follow through on the ones that she already put forward as part of her commitments in the last couple of months in order to secure that support and help the party be competitive over the next four years. But, you know, I'll say this. I think Albertans have election fatigue. I think they have government fatigue. And do not be surprised if most of them turn off their brains and do not talk about the government of Alberta for quite some time.

MG: Do these results, and I'll ask you this, Mike, did they say anything to you about what we might see in the next federal election? Obviously, Pierre Poilievre would be watching this very, very closely. If you were whispering into his ear, what would you take from what happened last night?

MICHAEL SOLBERG: Well, listen, you know, there's been past elections where, you know, the results have kind of mirrored each other provincial to federal. There's been more recent elections where that has not been the case at all. Particularly if you look at Edmonton, You know, the NDP are elected en masse across the city provincially. And in some instances, six months later, the very same people go out and elect conservative MPs en masse. But listen, there's no question that Pierre Poilievre is going to dominate Alberta the next time a federal election is called. The Conservatives have long held a dominant position in this province, frankly, since Confederation. So I don't think Pierre Poilievre is concerned in the slightest. And he's probably not reading into it too much either, but I don't think he's concerned in the first place.

MG: Jeromy, briefly, what do you think the results tell you, if anything, about what we might see in the next general election?

JEROMY FARKAS: Well, I think Mr. Poilievre’s actions explain it. I think this is the first time in sort of my 20 years of being involved in conservative Alberta politics that the federal conservative leader didn't actually come to Alberta to stump. So I think they identified it as relatively high risk, low reward. And, you know, if you're coming within 1300 votes of the Conservative Party losing conservative Alberta, I think that that bodes pretty poorly for, let's say, that Danielle Smith version of conservatism. So I think the federal conservatives would be watching this very, very closely, perhaps wanting to distance themselves from some of the controversy and some of the remarks, say, for example, Danielle Smith’s boycott of Remembrance Day and the poppy. I don't think things like this would play anywhere near well in, say, the GTA.

MG: Naheed, we have just a minute or so left. You mentioned emissions caps. Danielle Smith talked about the relationship with the Federal government, said that she would oppose things that would be inflicted upon Albertans. What does this say about the relationship between Alberta and the rest of the country and the federal government?

NAHEED NENSHI: I literally think nothing will happen. I think that the province and the federal government are actually closer than we think on a lot of these things. You know, Smith fought against a net zero electricity grid by 2035, but then quietly whispered that she's in favour of an entirely net zero Alberta by 2050. So the differences are actually differences of degree more than anything else. I do think that Mr. Poilievre should take a cautionary tale from this. As I said before, this brand of politics might have been enough for Danielle Smith, it's probably not enough to win federally. And Mr. Poilievre did endorse Danielle Smith, and a poll came out showing he was the most popular political figure in Alberta by a hair. Modesty prevents me from telling you who was right behind him. But ultimately, the message here is not for Alberta, but the message here is does Alberta style politics, Smith Poilievre politics work across the country? And if I'm a conservative, if I'm a conservative federally, then I'm really going to think hard about how I moderate to reach more of the people that Danielle was not able to reach in Alberta. Because if here in Alberta, it only gets you within 1300 votes, it's certainly not going to get you a majority government federally.

MG: I'm not a betting person, but my gamble is that none of you got very much sleep last night. I appreciate you taking our call this morning. Thank you very much.

ALL GUESTS: Thank you.

MG: Naheed Nenshi, mayor of Calgary for three terms, Jeromy Farkas, former city councillor, and Michael Solberg is a partner with New West Public Affairs, former staffer in the government of former Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Your CBC news is on its way. And then.

SOUNDCLIP

FEMALE SPEAKER: This is a manmade disaster and local authorities, central authorities, engineers, architects, we are all responsible.

MG: Months after deadly earthquakes in Turkey, thousands are still without homes. Reconstruction is underway. For many, rebuilding means addressing the deadly errors of the past. In six minutes, the CBC's Briar Stewart on what she heard on the ground in Turkey and why the election didn't really reflect many of those concerns. I'm Matt Galloway. This is The Current. Stay with us.

[Music: Theme]

TURKEY

Guests: Briar Stewart, Howard Eissenstat

MG: Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current.

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

DEREK GEE: I remember before, you guys were like, maybe we don't come this year. Who knows if he’ll make it to Rome? I was like, I probably won't make it to Rome.

MG: Well, Derek Gee did indeed make it to Rome. The Ottawa cyclist was a fan favourite in this year's gruelling Giro d'Italia bike race. He is here, tired legs and all, in just under 30 minutes. But first, to Turkey where months after deadly earthquakes, frustration mounts and grief lingers.

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

[demolition sounds]

MG: An excavator tears down an apartment building in Antakya, a city in southeast Turkey. It is one of the areas hardest hit by earthquakes in February. Now, months later, rebuilding is underway. But those who lost everything say reconstruction must also come with justice. CBC correspondent Briar Stewart was in Antakya earlier this month and she's with me now. Briar, hello.

BRIAR STEWART: Hello.

MG: You were in Hatay province near the Syrian border three months after these earthquakes. What does that area look like now?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, Matt, in many ways, the city of Antakya looks like it did largely the way it looked just right after these earthquakes when they struck on February 6th. And Antakya is an ancient town. I mean, it has a 2400 year history. And the old town itself, it's kind of considered the cultural hub of the city. You have streets that are lined with mosques, historic churches, restaurants and hotels. And I walked through that area and it's barely recognizable. Buildings have collapsed on themselves and in some cases, you actually have cars that are sitting there with the weight of buildings on top of them still. And we were led through the area with a local guide. And as we were walking, he kept pointing out important cultural artefacts. There were tiles. He said those tiles were from the Ottoman Empire and they were just sitting there because the authorities haven't had time to deal with them yet. And in fact, there was a sign up in Turkish saying that they didn't want people taking anything from the area because they had to go through it all. So that was the situation in Old Town. In other parts of the city, there are some buildings being demolished. Excavators are working and the rubble is being hauled away to large landfills on the outskirts of the city. But a lot of buildings are still standing as they were just after the earthquakes. You have apartment buildings where the walls have been torn off and you can really see into what were people's living rooms. I mean, we'd see beds and furniture and even photos hanging on the wall still.

MG: And so the people who have been there who have been through so much, how are they coping with the state of their city?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, there is a lot of grief and frustration. I mean, 50,000 people were killed in the earthquakes and about half of those people that were killed were living in the province of Hatay. So anyone you speak to knows people who have died. And in the earthquake zone, about three million people have been displaced and a lot of them have left the city of Antakya. And as we were driving around, we met a businessman named Mehmet Sirkan Sincan, and he owns an antique shop. And it was kind of a surreal scene because as we turned the corner, we could see all of this vintage furniture sitting on the street kind of surrounded by chalk coloured rubble. And it's because his store was damaged, so he moved a lot of his things outside. And we had a long conversation with him. And he told me about some of those initial moments after the first earthquake stopped and how he tried to reach out to his parents and his neighbours in the apartment building.

SOUNDCLIP

MEHMET SIRKAN SINCAN: In the first earthquake, I was with my family, my father and mother in our apartment. I can't explain it. It was too long and too strong. But thank you for the engineer, for my engineers, we was not down because it was new, before five years ago.

MG: You can hear the work going on in the background there. What did he say about why there was so much destruction?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, Antakya had a lot of buildings that were destroyed in part because it had a lot of buildings that were built before the year 2000, which is when Turkey strengthened its building codes and its inspection process. But there are also examples of new luxury buildings collapsing. In fact, one complex which was just built in 2019, it had five towers. It was marketed as state of the art and earthquake resistance. Four of those five towers collapsed. And, you know, and it's not an isolated case. There were a number of these buildings. So I did ask him why he thought this was kind of an issue all across the board.

SOUNDCLIP

MEHMET SIRKAN SINCAN: That's a good question. That's think with heart, okay? And when people have no heart, they don't think people, no family, no children when they think just money, okay? I want from my government, they have to go back 50 years. Everyone who’ve make not good things, they have to pay something because they make it not good the job and people die. Children die, everybody die.

BRIAR STEWART: You can kind of hear the emotion there in his voice, emotion in frustration. And a month after the earthquake, the authorities put out information about the number of arrest warrants that had been issued. There were more than 230 for contractors and developers over buildings that had collapsed. So there are a lot of criminal investigations going on. There are also a lot of lawsuits. And on top of that, there are calls for the resignations of some public officials because there are a lot of accusations that just the way the whole system was set up, it allowed builders to basically skirt the rules.

MG: We heard a lot of that frustration from people that we spoke with in the wake of those earthquakes. Who else was warning about poor construction in that region of the country?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, there were so many warnings, Matt, and both from inside Turkey and outside of Turkey. I mean, Turkey is a very earthquake prone area. It has had a number of devastating earthquakes in the past. There's been a lot of studies just about why it's so vulnerable, about the poor structural integrity of these buildings. So the risk was well known and people have been talking about it. I spoke with Sukru Ersoy. He's an expert in geology and geotechnical engineering with the university in Istanbul, and he had been warning about the location of the Hatay airport for years, even before it was opened in 2007.

SOUNDCLIP

SUKRU ERSOY: I said that airport place is not good place because fault line passing through the airport area. I said, but many people rejected my opinion.

BRIAR STEWART: And he thought that his opinion was rejected because he thought the airport was a political decision. He said it's, you know, somewhat of a strategic place because where it's located is about 30 kilometres from the Syrian border. And he'd only been not warning about the airport because of the fault line, but it was also situated above a drained lake. So the soil was very unstable. And, you know, regardless of the earthquake, flooding was almost an annual issue. So there were infrastructure problems. But by and large, most of the warnings that had been made in recent years were about housing and not just in Hatay, but across all of southeast Turkey and other areas as well.

MG: So he says his opinion was rejected in past. What does he say about the possibility of all this happening again?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, he and other experts say it's not whether this could happen again, but when. And really, the next big risk that they are warning about is in the Sea of Marmara because there's a fault line that goes through there. And there's tension building up because there hasn't been an earthquake in a while. And where the sea is, it lies just south of Istanbul. And all around the coast, it's a very populated area. You have 30 million people that are living there. And what he told me is that the last earthquake along this section of the fault was in 1776, and the earthquake reoccurrence rate is about 250 years.

SOUNDCLIP

SUKRU ERSOY: Nowadays, we are waiting a new big earthquake, bigger than 7.0. But worse scenario is 7.5. 30 million people living in this area, it means a very dangerous area. We are preparing so much, but the second question is it is enough?

MG: So that's the big question. Is it enough? Is the preparation that they're doing enough to stave off devastation if that other major earthquake happens?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, he says very clearly that it's not enough and he's not alone in that. Istanbul for instance has about 1.2 million buildings, and nearly 70% of them were built before the year 2000 when these new standards kicked in. So there are a lot of different estimates for how destructive a major earthquake could be in that region. But what Ersoy estimates is that based on kind of the current situation and the number of old buildings that they have, 150,000 people could be killed if there's a major earthquake. And so it's a situation that really frustrates him. And he told me that he really does not like the term natural disaster when it comes to describing earthquakes. He said earthquakes are a danger. They're a natural danger, but they don't have to be a disaster if you build properly and prepare for them. And he says Turkey is simply not doing that.

MG: So what is being done to try to prevent that sort of scenario?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, in 2020, Istanbul launched a free inspection program to identify buildings that were really high risk. And so what they would do is they would go from building to building and they would classify them and they would check to see what their structural supports were.

SOUNDCLIP

[construction sounds]

BRIAR STEWART: What you're hearing are crews cutting some of the plaster away from the wall so they could measure the hardness of the concrete. So this program launched in 2020, but the uptake was initially very slow. In fact, crews wanted to inspect more buildings, but people weren't giving them permission. And they thought in part that had something to do with the fact that people were worried that if they're building failed the inspection, they could not have a place to live, they could be homeless. But really, the interest in this inspection program surged dramatically after the earthquakes in February. They've received 150,000 applications now for inspections.

MG: What about the people, though, who are left without homes?

BRIAR STEWART: Well, across the earthquake region, as I said, three million people have been displaced and tens of thousands of them are living in tents, in containers in some places. And so it's very difficult. It's very difficult conditions. The day that we were there, it was 36 degrees. So it's just stifling hot. And you have some camps that are organized by different aid agencies. But the one that we went to was kind of informal. You had multi-generational families who were there living out of tents.

SOUNDCLIP

[people talking]

BRIAR STEWART: There were a lot of children, including a baby who was just five months old. We met a grandmother by the name of Emel Atici, and she was kind of going along the curb outside of the camp, gathering up dried branches to build a fire and heat up this large barrel of water. I mean, they were trying to heat the water up so they could take their weekly showers. And, you know, we talked to her very briefly, in part because she was so upset. She told us that she lost her son, daughter in law and their infant in the earthquake. And like everyone else in the camp, she was really at a loss for just what to do next. She had been living in a tent for three months. She had no idea when she would have a home, but she really had nowhere else to go.

MG: So the president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, won re-election a couple of days ago, faced all sorts of pressure, as we were saying, about the concerns that people had when it came to these earthquake zones and the fact that, as one of your guests said, that this was not a natural disaster, that there are ways to protect people. He won in part on a promise to rebuild these areas within a year. How likely is it that he's going to be able to deliver on that promise?

BRIAR STEWART: Yes. And he got a lot of support from people in the earthquake zone. And I think it's clear to say that in Antakya, it's not very likely that all these homes are going to be rebuilt in a year. In fact, I spoke to the mayor of the province of Hatay who told me that even though they were ready to do construction today, it wouldn't make sense because there are still aftershocks happening, and it's not correct to kind of poor foundations at this stage when you have the earth still shaking as it is. That being said, there's also so many buildings that still need to be demolished. It's a huge job and the city is also trying to figure out just how to rebuild. I mean, given that this area has been hit by devastating earthquakes several times before, they're trying to come up with a better plan. They're looking at limiting the height of buildings in certain areas and turning parts of the old town into more green space where the soil is too unstable and they really shouldn't be rebuilding there.

MG: What a scene there all those months after this earthquake. Briar, thank you very much for this.

BRIAR STEWART: You're welcome.

MG: Briar Stewart is a CBC correspondent. She was in London. As we said, Turkey's runoff election wrapped up on Sunday and the president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, secured another five years in office, continuing his 20-year long run as leader. Here he is making a speech in translation.

SOUNDCLIP

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: Nobody lost today. All 85 million people won. As demanded by the responsibility our nation has given us, we are not offended, resentful or angry with anyone. It is now time to put aside all the discussions about the election period and unite around national goals.

MG: After the election was called, the Opposition leader, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, had this to say about the country's future.

SOUNDCLIP

Kemal Kilicdaroglu through a translator: We would continue to fight for democracy until our nation has true democracy because the government, the current government is not sufficient for what our people need and there are greater challenges that await us.

MG: Howard Eissenstat is a turkey specialist with the Middle East Institute and an associate professor of Middle East history at St. Lawrence University. He is in Istanbul. Howard, hello to you.

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: Hi. Good to be with you, Matt.

MG: There were many people, many young people in particular, as well as supporters of the opposition, that were really hopeful that the results would be different. Why do you think change did not come to Turkey?

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: I think that there's a few reasons. You know, people have talked about a lacklustre campaign by the opposition. And there's certainly some truth to that, but I think fundamentally, it boils down to two basic issues. The first is that Turkey is a highly polarized society. And even dire economic news, even the tragedy of the earthquake and the mismanagement that led to so many deaths, those factors are all filtered through the prism of partisanship, of political identification, and don't move as many voters as one would expect them to. The second is that while there are certainly elections in Turkey and people are expected to vote, and in fact, vote in very high numbers, 86% or so of the possible voters voted in this past Sunday's election, the truth is that it's not really a contested election in the sense that we understand the term. Turkey has 90% of its media controlled by the government either directly or indirectly. All of the state functions, including the courts, the police, the electoral board, all of those things are controlled by the ruling party. And so the messaging that gets through is all channelled in ways that are favourable to the ruling party. So I mean, it's striking in a country that's suffering as badly economically as this one is, one would expect the ruling party to be voted out in a landslide. That didn't happen. And frankly, I'm not surprised it didn't happen because all of the information that's coming through, all of the ways in which issues are debated have been defined by the government.

MG: And so what do you think, I mean, it’s interesting. In his speech to his supporters on Sunday, Erdogan lashed out at the LGBTQ community, saying that it's a threat to the family. He talked about terrorists and threats to the nation itself. What does something like that tell you about how he is going to lead 20 years into his control of power in that country?

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: He has won office repeatedly through polarization and by demonizing the opposition. And, you know, his victory speech was in fact a campaign speech for the next round of elections, which will be the municipal elections. And it was very clear that his strategy is to define the opposition as effete, as out of touch, as purveyors of foreign values, as corruptors of the nation. It is a policy of demonization, which is to say he's going to rule in the next year the way he's ruled for the last 20.

MG: But in the meantime, as you said, the country faces huge internal crises. We'll talk about external in just a moment, but inflation is through the roof. People are suffering. Where does this leave them?

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: I mean, there's very little that I can say to reassure my Turkish friends and family. The next few years are going to be extraordinarily difficult. Erdogan has bankrupted the country to sort of float the economy for the purposes of elections. He's gotten a lot of money from the Gulf and Russia, for example, has given him access to cheap natural gas. But, you know, those things will come due. Those things are short term Band-Aids for problems that are deep and fundamental and that Erdogan has shown no willingness or capacity to address.

MG: What about externally? You mentioned Russia and the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, quick on the line to offer congratulations to Erdogan for his victory. There is an economic relationship, an dependency on Russia. What does something like this say about that ongoing relationship between Turkey and Russia in the midst of a war in Ukraine?

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: Turkey is going to continue to try to play both sides off the middle. He’s going to continue to try to sort of leverage his position within NATO to get benefits from the West. He's going to continue to try to reach out to the Gulf, to China, to Russia. And that's fine. The problem is that many of the steps that he's taken make it very difficult for the West to deal with him. It's not that he's undemocratic. Unfortunately, the West deals with autocrats all the time. I mean, we would like to say that the West stands up for liberal values, but it doesn't. The problem is that he is unwilling to be cooperative on basic issues of national security. He’s bought Russian surface to air missiles. He's so far refused to allow Sweden into Naito. Those issues are outstanding. They're difficult to resolve, particularly the s-400, the surface to air missiles. And it makes it very difficult for western capitals even where they so inclined to work with him. So I expect Turkey will, you know, I don't think it's going to leave NATO's, but it's going to continue to be a very thorny issue for its Western allies.

MG: In part because Turkey plays such a strategic role that the West cannot but have to try to figure out a way to engage with it, right?

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: Well, I mean, I think its strategic position is probably less important than it was 30 years ago. But, you know, in the end, it's a big country. It's a country of 85 million people and it's embedded in the structures of the Western alliance. So, you know, Sweden is a great example. I'm sure that there are many in Washington who would be willing to trade an alliance with Turkey for an alliance with Sweden, but the truth is it's not a choice. Turkey is in NATO's. There's no mechanism for it leaving NATO's unless it wants to. And because Erdogan gained so much benefit from it, he's not going to leave.

MG: Just finally before I let you go, we are out of time, but one of the concerns if you go back internally is that again, there are those masses of young people who are calling for change. And the concern is that without that change, the brain drain that turkey is already seeing with many skilled young adults will be exacerbated. Do you worry about that, that the heart and soul of the future of Turkey could go out the door because they don't see the change that they need to see in that country?

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: As you say, it's already happening. This election is only going to strengthen the resolve of those who can to leave. We're seeing it. We're seeing refugees flowing into the United States, Turkish refugees flowing into the United States through the Mexican border. I think it's only going to accelerate. It's going to accelerate because of Erdogan's repression. It's going to accelerate because Turkey's economic conditions are only going to get worse in the short term.

MG: Howard, thank you very much for this.

HOWARD EISSENSTAT: My pleasure.

MG: Howard Eissenstat is a turkey specialist with the Middle East Institute and associate professor of Middle East history at St. Lawrence University. He was in Istanbul. Well, coming up after your regional update, the Canadian cyclist Derek Gee is being called the People's champion of this year's Giro d'Italia. Over the past weeks, his work ethic has inspired cycling fans around the world. He'll join me in 90 seconds to talk about what it was like to compete in this legendary race and what he does now after winning the hearts of cycling fans around the world. And then we'll head to Surrey, British Columbia, where emergency doctors are struggling to keep their emergency department running. We'll talk about what they're up against and where that leaves patient care. I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current. We're back in just a minute. Stick around.

[Music: Theme]

DEREK GEE

Guest: Derek Gee

MG: Hello again. I'm Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

MALE SPEAKER: And the Giro ending in front of a place where the Great Gladiators once fought it out, the modern day equivalent treating us to a final week of big entertainment.

MG: This year's Giro D'Italia ended in front of Rome's Colosseum, a fitting end after the world's top cyclists battled for weeks across Italy. And while this year's winner of the legendary cycling race was Slovenian Primoz Roglic, it is a Canadian that has captured the excitement of fans around the world.

SOUNDCLIP

DEREK GEE: There's something special about being out there. I mean, right from the start, I thought I didn't have the legs but gave it everything I had. And yeah, the fans were a massive help, so they gave me, they brought my legs back a little bit.

MG: In his first grand tour race, 25-year-old Derek Gee finished 22nd overall. He collected four second place and two fourth place spots in individual stages of this race. And while he didn't finish on the podium, it was his grit and tenacity that has enthralled fans everywhere. Ottawa's Derek Gee is with me from Spain. Derek, good morning.

DEREK GEE: Good morning.

MG: How are those legs?

DEREK GEE: Hurting, hurting bad.

MG: Can you qualify it on a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 would be, oh my goodness, I can't believe it. How hurt are you?

DEREK GEE: I'd say the end of each stage would be about a 10. So I'm sitting at a nice seven right now.

MG: Seven. What were your expectations going into this race?

DEREK GEE: I think my expectations were quite low. My goal was to finish the race. It's quite a daunting event. So over 3000 kilometres, you race over some really high mountains in the Dolomites. So for sure, my expectations going in were to fight as hard as I could just to make it to Rome.

MG: So what happened? I mean, how did you pull off what you did in doing so well, not just finishing the race, but doing so well? And we'll talk about, you know, the people's champ bit in a moment, but how did you manage to pull this off?

DEREK GEE: I have no idea. I've been asking myself that for a few weeks now. I mean, I was an incredibly unknown name going in. And I mean, these are some of the best racers in the world. And I guess maybe I recover really well because this was my first three-week race, but the legs just kept showing up day after day. And as the race got deeper and deeper, I became more competitive. And I honestly have no idea where it came from.

MG: What does it take to compete in a race like this? I've seen some of the photos from after the stages, and we'll talk about in the middle of the stages, but after the stages and you just look shattered.

DEREK GEE: It's pretty gruelling. I mean, racing for the win is one thing. Those are actually almost the easier days because you have good legs. But I mean, you still have to dig as deep as you can, but over 21 days, you're going to have bad days. And the bad days are the hardest because it's the same amount of suffering. But instead of the motivation of trying to win the stage, you have to fight just to make it to the finish line. So those are for sure the hardest days and it takes a lot of determination to get through those ones.

MG: Are you just eating all the time to keep up the energy to be able to pull something like this off?

DEREK GEE: I think I lost £5 over the course of the three weeks and I never stopped eating. It was unbelievable. I never stopped eating, which honestly is kind of fun.

MG: And are there moments in the middle of the race when you wake up and you know you have to race that day, but you just rather stay in bed, you don't want to put the legs through and the rest of your body through what you know is coming?

DEREK GEE: Oh, almost every day. I think I ended up having good legs and being able to fight to win some of the stages. But in the morning of every stage, I was thinking, why? Why am I doing this? Why am I getting on my bike again to race for 200 and something kilometres, you know, there for six hours? And it changes when you're out there and you hear the fans and it gets you going. But yeah, there are some tough times mentally to get through it.

MG: You're doing it because of those scenes that we saw during the climbs through the mountains in the Dolomites where you are grinding your way up a mountain and there are fans beside you and they're going crazy and cheering you on inches away from you. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that people in your sport dream of. What was it like to be in the middle of that?

DEREK GEE: I've watched those scenes on TV since I was a kid. And it's almost indescribable, but I have a radio in my ear with the team car, you know, kind of telling me what to do and encouraging me. And it's quite loud. I mean, the directors on the other side are yelling and I couldn't hear them at all. That's how loud it was. You're going through a tunnel of noise and it's just people everywhere. You can't see the road in front of you. You just keep riding and they move out of the way, you know, as you pass them and they're all going crazy. I mean, at some point, you don't feel your legs because it's just so motivating.

MG: You have to kind of pinch yourself that something like this is happening. I mean, you're in great pain and kind of working your way through this, but there has to be a moment where you're like, I can't believe that I'm actually doing this, this thing that I've seen everybody do.

DEREK GEE: It has felt like that moment for three weeks straight, honestly. Even before I was competitive for stages, just being at the start line, I was pinching myself going, wow, I'm racing this year. This is something that I've dreamed of since I was probably 10 years old. So it's been a very overwhelming few weeks.

MG: So as you said, you weren't sure that you were even going to make it to the finish and your team did a little something for you after the race. They said that you were the surprise hero of the Giro, so it's only fitting that they gave you a surprise of your own. Have a listen to this.

SOUNDCLIP

FIRST MALE SPEAKER: Oh, this is awesome. Oh, this was really nice.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Are you overwhelmed. Yeah?

DEREK GEE: Yeah, a little bit. It's been three weeks of it.

SECOND MALE SPEAKER: You deserve it.

DEREK GEE: I remember before, you guys were like, maybe we don't come this year. Who knows if he’ll make it to Rome? I was like, I probably won't make it to Rome.

MG: Derek Gee, what are we listening to there?

DEREK GEE: That was the team flying my family and my girlfriend out to be there for the final day in Rome. And that was incredibly special. It really was. And it was a very emotional moment for me.

MG: You sound emotional even talking about it now.

DEREK GEE: Yeah, it’s super special. I mean, my parents were actually in Europe on a bike packing trip, but I mean, my girlfriend was in Dundas, Ontario, so this was something I was definitely not expecting. And yeah, to have the team do a gesture like that and fly them out was Oh, it was amazing. I think that was the best day of my life.

MG: You mentioned your parents on a tour there and your father was a cyclist as well. How much of what you do do you take from him?

DEREK GEE: Oh, a huge amount. I mean, he taught me so much. Just when we were starting out, we used to go to races together and those were really, really special memories. Just he’d race, you know, the 40 plus category and I would race under 17 or something like that and we would just, yeah, go and each race our separate category and talk about the races the whole way home. So to make it to this level, I think he maybe believed a lot more than I did that I could make it here. So to get to share that with him was very, very special.

MG: So you'll know, of course, that I mean, there are different classifications for who wins this race and the pink jersey at the front of the pack and everybody else. There are different kind of rankings, but the people's champ is something else. You have been called the people's champ for what you did. Why do you think people wrap their arms around you?

DEREK GEE: I think I put on quite a good show because there's a ton of different categories and I came second in every single one except for the overall, which was 22nd. So just a couple more twos and second in four separate stages, and I think from being a relatively unknown rider to everyone cheering for me to win a stage and it never quite happened. And for sure, there were some scenes after the stages where I was just absolutely crushed, you know, to finish second for a fourth time or something like that. So I think people really, really enjoyed that show, and it's been amazing to see the support.

MG: Aside from resting and sleeping and eating and listening to the birds, because I know you're a bird watcher as well, what are you going to do now? What is next for you?

DEREK GEE: This week, I don't think I will touch my bike much. I might do a couple of nice coffee rides. And then actually, on Sunday, I'm set to race again, but only one day, thankfully. So I’ll race again and then head back to Canada race nationals and then take a nice long break.

MG: And what’s the next big signature race for you? I mean, would you do the Giro again, Tour de France at some point in time?

DEREK GEE: I hope in the next few years to do the tour for sure. Not this year, but there's also GP Quebec in Montreal, which are the only races in Canada at the highest level. So hopefully at the end of the year, I can race those as well. But the next big goal is the national championships.

MG: You've had an amazing few weeks and you deserve the break, but you have fans that you have earned right around the world for what you pulled off. It's great to talk to you about this. Derek, thank you.

DEREK GEE: Thanks for having me.

MG: Congratulations.

DEREK GEE: Thank you.

MG: Derek Gee, Canadian cyclist, member of the Israel Premier Tech racing team.

[music]

ER DOCTOR BC

Guest: Dr. Urbain Ip

MG: This is The Current on CBC Radio and the CBC Listen app. My name is Matt Galloway. Surrey Memorial Hospital has one of the busiest emergency departments in British Columbia, but the doctors there say their department is on the brink of collapse and patients’ lives are in danger. The staffing crisis has led to many issues, including patients reportedly waiting in hallways for days on end before receiving care. A group of physicians have now signed an open letter calling out health officials for ignoring their concerns. Dr. Urbain Ip is one of those doctors, an emergency room physician at Surrey Memorial Hospital. Dr. Ip, good morning.

DR. URBAIN IP: Good morning, Matt.

MG: How would you describe the crisis at your hospital?

DR. URBAIN IP: Maybe I should explain why suddenly the escalating crisis is on the news right now. The Surrey Memorial Hospital is always congested. We never really have enough beds, you know, ever. I think the problem was escalated when the pandemic started dwindling down, when we truly feel the shortage of what we call hospitage, the host doctor who really take care of more than 70, 80% of the patients admitted to the hospital. So the combination of these two problems, not enough acute care beds, congestion in the emergency, nobody to take care of those patients that we emitted really escalated the crisis to a boiling point.

MG: What does that mean for patients? How are patients being affected and how is their care being impacted?

DR. URBAIN IP: What it means is so in a normal situation, this is the best scenario. So say somebody comes in with a pneumonia, they look really sick and we triage them. We see them immediately as emergency physicians and we deliver the emergency care, started them on antibiotics, make sure their vital signs is good, stabilize them. And as the emergency physician, we kind of have done our job. We need to admit this patient to hospital. We talk to the admitting doctor and they come down to see the patient the right order and they go up to the ward and then they get taking care of in an appropriate area. So that's kind of the best scenario. The patient get better, they go home. The problem for the patient now is that when we finish with our emergency care, we have nobody to hand over to. At the hospital, this patient we admitted will stay in the emergency department because they have not seen the next physician who is in the hospital and they cannot go up to the ward. So they’re lingering in the department. Sometimes, they're in the hallway. Sometimes, lucky enough, they have a room. But if they stay long enough, they might be pushed out to the hall and they may not be seen for the next 24, 48 and sometimes 72 hours. Now, for the patient, you can imagine when they are so sick to come in to the hospital, the first 48 hours is critical that they are being cared for, very, very closely monitored by a physician. Now, the nurses in the emergency continue to monitor them, but they're not on the ward. They’re not in the appropriate area. So the nurses in the emergency have to take care of all the other emergency physician, you know, also coming into the department. So I think the care is certainly not the standard that they will get up on the appropriate ward.

MG: Doctors at your hospital have suggested that patients who are suffering from heart attacks, who had had a miscarriage, patients who were in palliative care were being treated in the hallways. Is that correct?

DR. URBAIN IP: That's true. Too many of them. And that's not the right place to treat these people and that's not very humane. And we understand that. We try our best in the emergency department. But the problem is when these things happen, when the family look at their loved one treated the way that is being treated in the emergency department, you know who they blame? They blame the emergency department. It's very difficult for the family to understand, you know, what’s this shortage, but what is the system that is deficient. So it's always the fault of the emergency department where we really try to do our best. I tell you, it's not very nice to go home when we finish our shift and when we go home, we are so worried about the patient we admitted. And that's not a good feeling when you finish your work for the day.

MG: Do you know of any patients that have, have any patients died while waiting in the hallway?

DR. URBAIN IP: So no, I myself don't. I heard that there are patients, there’s adverse events happened. Now, all these adverse events, some of us believe it’s related to delay in care because of lack of physician care in the department. And all these have been forwarded to leadership certainly in the investigation. I haven't seen any result. Of course, you know these are expected adverse events that happen while they’re in the emergency department.

MG: You said that given the situation, if one of your family members needed to go to the emergency department, needed to get emergency care, you're not sure whether you would send them to your hospital for care. You've worked there for 30 years. Why would you say that?

DR. URBAIN IP: So I have the firsthand to know what kind of care that the hospital is offering right now. It certainly doesn't make me feel good to say what I said. When my loved one gets sick, I'm worried the hospital cannot take care of my loved one. That's true. It's really sad for me to have that feeling.

MG: But it's true that if one of your loved ones is sick, you wouldn't send them to the hospital that you work at.

DR. URBAIN IP: I think I would. I’m just saying it out of emotion. But I think I would be very, very hands on myself to make sure that they are being cared for properly.

MG: More than 35 doctors at your hospital signed a blistering open letter talking about what was going on in that hospital, talking about the conditions that you've described. And in the letter, you said that you were told by Fraser Health, which is the health authority that oversees this hospital, not to openly discuss our challenges with the public. What do you think that was about? Why is it that Fraser Health doesn't want you talking publicly about this?

DR. URBAIN IP: There's really no formal gag order that we cannot talk to the public. So when we met with them and we have meetings with them, and you know how the organization really say that if you're going to talk to the public, we’d like you to go through us. You know, our communications department want to guide the message. And they actually said that, we told the leadership, we said that we want to be really transparent to the public, telling them that we are in a really deep trouble and want the public to know and be patient with us. The leadership said that they will actually have a media campaign about this crisis. It didn't come. I guess the group eventually decided that we need to do it ourselves and send out that letter. I don't think anybody because of that letter has been reprimanded or disciplined.

MG: Do you worry about that? Do you worry about facing discipline for speaking out? I mean, we're using your name. The people who signed that letter were unnamed. Do you worry about facing discipline for speaking out about the condition?

DR. URBAIN IP: No, I’m not because, you know, I’ve worked there for, you know, I've been an emergency physician for 40 years and I worked in the same organization for 30 years. I was the clinical director of the emergency. I was the medical director for over 10 years in this hospital. So I've been on the other side. I know exactly the system and I don't think I will be disciplined or reprimanded because I'm saying this. And I think even the Minister, the Health Minister, Adrian Dix, said, you know what, we can say what we want. I'm not worried. I really want my hospital to do well. I'm very loyal to the hospital. I love this hospital and I really, really want a solution.

MG: The CEO of Fraser Health has said there have been challenges with human resources, challenges with wait times. She says there has been a significant number of solutions put forward. The Health Minister, Adrian Dix, says that B.C. is actively working to solve this problem. Have you seen any action that would address the crisis that you’ve described?

DR. URBAIN IP: And this is not a long term problem solving thing, but we're looking for some short term solutions. I think the number one things that they need to accomplish, one, the contract negotiation with the hospital must come to a conclusion and be satisfied by, you know, the hospital so that they can actually start hiring and hiring enough people to solve the immediate problem of taking care of the admitted patients. Now, we need this other solution and I hope that they will find help. For instance, in British Columbia, for instance, we are not recognizing physician assistant. There's no such thing in Ontario, Manitoba. They all recognize physician assistant. Physician assistants may be a solution and immediately add on. And there's all kinds of physician assistants that exist that cannot work in a hospital. Maybe that's one of the solutions. I'm just kind of throwing the kitchen sink to try to solve the problem.

MG: We're just about out of time. Let me just ask you just a couple of final quick questions. One is you mentioned that you on the front lines often face the brunt of the anger from people if they see their loved ones being treated in a hallway, if they see their loved ones facing these long wait times and not seeing a doctor for 48, 72 hours. What has this done for morale for doctors, nurses and staff at Surrey?

DR. URBAIN IP: Well, the morale not just the doctor, but for the nurses and for the team is extremely low right now. Now, I hope that the emergency team, especially or actually the hospital, everybody who works for this hospital is not cynical about this problem cannot be solved. We have to have that belief that leadership is trying to solve our problem. Hope is the only way that we can carry on to continue to serve the hospital and care for our patients.

MG: Hmm. I was going to say, in the meantime, how difficult is it for you to come to work every day?

DR. URBAIN IP: We continue to carry on to try our best to take care of our patient. I'm working with an extremely compassionate, dedicated group of physicians. And although, they're screaming out loud to say that we are in trouble, we are in trouble, they continue to come to work. I really admire them.

MG: It's important to hear what's happening inside your hospital. And it's a situation that might sound familiar to people elsewhere in the province and perhaps elsewhere in the country as well. Dr. Ip, thank you very much.

DR. URBAIN IP: Thank you.

MG: Dr. Urbain Ip is an emergency room physician at Surrey Memorial Hospital in British Columbia. We did ask Fraser Health for comment, and in a statement, Fraser Health says that they have opened up 40 more beds at the hospital since 2022 and opened 189 new long term care beds to ensure patients are receiving care in the right place. The statement adds that they are also focusing on recruiting more doctors and more nurses. That is The Current for this Tuesday. Q is up next on CBC Radio One. Earlier, I was speaking with the Canadian cyclist Derek Gee about his inspirational ride in this year's Giro d'Italia. He sounded as though he's still high on what he managed to accomplish and becoming the people's champ and surpassing his own expectations. If you missed that conversation, you can find the segment and anything else from this program on the CBC Listen app or wherever you find your podcasts. It turns out, though, what do you know? Derek Gee wasn't the only Canadian getting reactions from European crowds this weekend.

SOUNDCLIP

[people cheering]

MG: With a thud and then thunderous gasps, that is Delaney Irving. This weekend, the Vancouver Islander won first place at the Cooper's Hill cheese wheel race near Gloucester, England. Of course, as you know, every year, hundreds of people take part in the havarti party. They charge for cheddar down a dangerously steep hill, chasing a three-kilogram wheel of double Gloucester cheese. Unfortunately, this year, Delaney Irving took a tumble and was knocked out cold. But she kept rolling across the finish line with no idea that she'd won.

SOUNDCLIP

DELANEY IRVING: I remember hitting my head, I remember hurting, and then I remember waking up in a tent.

MG: Delaney was taken to hospital for the all clear. She's all Gouda now. I'm sorry. I will stop now with the puns. You've had enough. In honour of Delaney Irving's win, a triumph perhaps that we could all dream of, here's Joel Plaskett, Rollin Rollin Rollin. I'm Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

[Song: “Rollin Rollin Rollin” by Joel Plaskett]

Tuesday May 30, 2023 Episode Transcript

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