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Front Burner Transcript for March 3, 2023

Host: Jayme Poisson

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Hi, I'm Daemon Fairless in for Jayme Poisson.

SOUNDCLIP

SPORTS ANNOUNCER: To make history for Canada. She does!

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Canada win the gold medal for the first time less than two years ago in a stadium without an audience thanks to COVID 19. Canada's national women's soccer team won gold at the Tokyo Olympics. It was the first time the women's team earned the top honor and the first Olympic gold for Canada soccer since 1904. But it wasn't the first Olympic victory for the women's team. There was bronze at the 2016 Games in Rio.

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SPORTS ANNOUNCER 2: Oh, Canada. You big Red Beauty. It's bronze again for Canada. They have beaten Brazil.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: And another bronze four years before that at the 2012 games in London. (CROWDS CHEERING) But despite all that, the team's future success is now at risk. And with less than six months to go before the FIFA Women's World Cup in Australia and New Zealand, the teams engaged in a very visible fight with their bosses. That's meant strikes, onfield protests. And now the president of Soccer Canada has resigned. The turmoil comes because of what the players say is a shocking lack of funding and very different treatment compared to the men's team.

SOUNDCLIP

CANADIAN WOMEN'S SOCCER PLAYER: It's pretty disgusting that we're having to ask just to be treated equally. It's a fight that women all over the world have to partake in every single day. But quite frankly, we're really sick of it. And it's something that now I don't even get disappointed by anymore. I just get angry about because it's it's time. It's 2023. We won the damn Olympic Games and we're about to go to the World Cup with the team who could win.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Today to get into all of that. I'm joined by Rick Westhead. He's a senior correspondent with TSN and he's been following the story. Hey, Rick, Thanks for coming on.

RICK WESTHEAD: I'm happy to talk about this. Thank you.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So in the intro, I mentioned the onfield protest, and that happened a few weeks ago at the Shebelieves Cup in Orlando, Florida. The women's team announced it was going to go on strike. Can you take me back? What did that look like, that incident?

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, this was a fight over several issues. It was over, you know, pay equity. The women's national team players looked at the kind of treatment that the men's national team had last year in the lead up to the World Cup in Qatar. And it was also concerns over their budget this year. So this is a women's World Cup year, as you said, in July and August and Australia and New Zealand. And the budget has been cut back drastically. We don't know exactly how much because Canada Soccer, even though it's federally funded and so National sport Organization, they don't disclose this level of detail in their financials. What we do know is that players say that the cutbacks have been so severe that, you know, for instance, in the late November sorry, early November of 2022, the women's national team had two games scheduled against Brazil in Brazil. And so typically they would go down and have a camp before those games. Well, players on the women's team were told it's not happening. We don't have enough money. And the games were going to be canceled until they found a private donor who was willing to cut a major check to cover the majority of the costs. So we're literally at a point where the defending Olympic gold medalists are having to go begging to corporate Canada in private donations to be able to travel for a game. And fast forward. You know, and you have this frustration which boils over before Canada is supposed to be playing in the shebelieves talk in Florida. Right. And so the you know, Janine, Beckie and Christine Sinclair come on TSN And they do an interview. And it's it's startling to hear. Christine Sinclair, who's been the Flagbearer for Canada Soccer for so many years, say that she cannot wear that emblem and represent Canada soccer because she is so upset over the treatment of the national team.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRISTINE SINCLAIR: We've been trying to to fight the fair fight, and in a way it's gotten us nowhere. As a team, we've decided to take job action and that's very hard to say. As an athlete who wants to compete and wants to play, wants to represent Canada. But yeah, enough's enough at this point.

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, what happens is the players do wind up backing down. So a day after the women said that they were on strike, they met with Canada Soccer. And according to the women, Canada Soccer said if you do not play, we will sue your player association, which represents the players in bargaining. And we will also sue you individually for not playing. And so the players went back on the field. They wore, you know, purple shirts as a sign of gender equity as a modest protest. Some of the players wear their Team Canada training shirts inside out as another sign of protest. But the point is they got back on the field, right. And they were not in a legal strike position. I'm told that they will be in coming days.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: And at that tournament, just in terms of what was at stake for them, so there was the threat of a lawsuit. But but as I understand issue, they hadn't been paid for their work in 2022. Right.

RICK WESTHEAD: They still haven't, which is amazing. I sit here and I wonder how I would act if TSN hadn't paid me for all the work I did in 2022, or if CBC hadn't paid you for all the work you did a year ago. You can imagine why the frustrations would be so, you know, leading them to refuse to play for the national team.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: One of the things that was really amazing about that, too, at that tournament was that there was this amazing moment of solidarity from the U.S. team, Right, for the for the Canadian team. Can you can you tell me about that?

RICK WESTHEAD: Before they played, all the players kind of joined hands and met in the center of the pitch and, you know, had a moment.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: Canada's national women's team taking to the pitch in purple, a symbol of equality. Their latest protest in an ongoing and increasingly ugly fight to be treated and paid the same as the men. A battle...

RICK WESTHEAD: And that was striking because these two teams, powerhouses in women's soccer, are arch or arch rivals and so to see them united, you know, one team fighting a common enemy in the moment that was striking.

SOUNDCLIP

MEGAN RAPINOE: Were with them 100%. We obviously know, you know, exactly what they're going through, how difficult that is, how difficult it is to. Do all of that off the field and have to perform. So you yeah.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Women on both the Japanese national team and England's national soccer team they wore purple armbands in solidarity with Canada's team. What has the reaction been like more broadly from the international soccer community?

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, I think there's been universal support for the Canadian women. I just wonder, like, what's it going to lead to? There still isn't a deal. You know, one of the issues that the Canadian women raised was that they did not have a send off game scheduled before the World Cup. So there was no plans for Canada to play at home against an international opponent before going off to the Women's World Cup. There are also questions about, you know, again, their budget in the back half of this year. Remember, Canada still hasn't qualified for the Olympics in Paris next year. So even though we're going to the World Cup, there's still would be qualification needed for the defending Olympic champions to make it back to the Olympics next year. Where is that money going to come from? We don't know. And so, you know, you're right to point out that there has been really, really universal support and I would say public pressure internationally. What has that actually led to so far?

SOUNDCLIP

CHRISTINE SINCLAIR: We are just at our wits end. This could be our most important fight that we ever have as national team players, and it's one we're determined to win.

CANADIAN WOMEN'S SOCCER PLAYER: I really think it sends a signal to every girl, every woman, that no matter how much you try, how much you accomplish, you're still not important enough.

CANADIAN WOMEN'S SOCCER PLAYER 2: Why is it any different for us is so incredibly unfair to the women and the staff and everyone that supports this team works for this team is a fan of this team. And we've we've had enough. It's way, way too far gone.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So just to back up for a minute to the labor dispute, earlier, you mentioned one of the issues behind the she believes strike was the difference in how the men's team was treated in comparison to the women. Can you tell me more about that?

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, like we talked about earlier, the women have seen the kind of treatment that the men's national team received last year. You know, the Canadian men qualified for the World Cup in Qatar was the first time in 36 years that that had happened. And the players, friends and families all traveled to Qatar to Doha for the tournament, You know, and now it's a women's World Cup here. Now, even small, modest things at the same time as you're seeing the men's team, players traveling, business class. I talked to one of the players on the women's national team. He told me that going to a camp, you know, in Vancouver from Europe, it was a double connection economy class. So there is a there's a distinction there.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Yeah. And I mean, I think that part of it is that there's a difference in spending and what they have to spend. Right. So like in their financial statements from December 2021, Canada Soccer lists its expenses for the men's team's at around $11 million and in about 5.1 million for the women's teams. And I understand that Christine Sinclair has said that about half of that 5.1 came from the on the podium program. So how is Canada soccer justified that difference in spending and in funds?

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, they don't. Canada Soccer is not transparent about the these line items. When you ask and I've been asking again and again for detailed but detailed expenditures, how much did Canada Soccer spend on board members and spouses of board members going to Qatar for the men's World Cup? And I don't have an answer. How much was the budget for the women's national team and the men's national team last year, and how much was the actual spend? No answer. And the same for this year. So, you know, transparency is sort of this we hear this again and again, but really that would solve so many problems and perhaps it would actually be something where you could actually start to rebuild trust, which has been completely lost between both national teams and Canada Soccer. Right now, the players on both teams have been asking to see the numbers. Right? They want to know where the money is going. This where we're at a time when soccer Canada's never done better than this internationally. And it's you see tangible changes in the way that corporate Canada is excited and trying to market off this as well. Canada Soccer has 14 national partners right now. I'm told there are about two out of 50. These are companies, you know, Nike and Gatorade and CIBC and Allstate Insurance, which are surely paying millions of dollars a year. And so the question is, where is that money going? And every time that the players have said, we want to see that, they don't get an answer.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: I want to get into the finances and the transparency issues. But I'm hoping before I do that, I just want to go back for a second. And so the women's team isn't alone in having issues with Canada Soccer just months before the World Cup in Qatar. The men's team also went on strike.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: A compensation dispute between players and Canada soccer management, resulting in the cancellation of an exhibition match with Panama that was supposed to take place.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: What were the men's team protesting?

RICK WESTHEAD: Because Canada qualified for the World Cup. There's a $10 million bonus that Canada Soccer earned from FIFA. And so the question has been how much of that money should go to the national team players and how much of that should go to the federation. And that's really the root of the dispute, which to this day has still not been resolved. It's we're now into March 2023 and the players in Canada soccer still have not reached an agreement on how their qualification money for the World Cup last year should be divided. They're also at odds over something called name, image and likeness rights. Now, basically, a player's nil rights are bargained so that a company that does a deal with Canada Soccer can then use players in their their advertising. So you know CIBC wants to has a deal with Canada soccer. They want to be able to showcase Jonathan David and Christine Sinclair and Alphonso Davies and Janine Beckie and their marketing right to show these are the these are the players that you all know and love and we're aligned with them. Well, Canada Soccer still does not have an agreement in place with its men's national team. It was bad enough that during the World Cup in Qatar, Alphonso Davies refused to wear the. Branded training kit that Canada had so that there'd be no photographs taken of him wearing anything that was branded CIBC.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So I want to get into what Canada Soccer said about all this back when the men's team made their proposal of federations. And now former President Nick Bontis said the organization couldn't afford the players demands.

SOUNDCLIP

NICK BONTIS: If we as an association only had the men's team and the women's team to take care of and nothing else, we could still not afford this proposal. It is untenable as written.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: But both the men's and women's team have been really successful now. So where is Canada? Soccer's money going?

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, this then there's the rub. This is the question that I think we can get an answer to. It would solve would lead to a solution. Nick Bontis has said a lot of things. He spoke at a press conference last year after the men's team went on strike, pleading with them to to get back on the field. But one thing that neither he nor Canada soccer is board of directors or anyone else with the organization will do is actually explain where the money is going to answer that. We have to go back to 2017. At the time, Canada Soccer was trying to figure out a way to work with the United States and Mexico to host the 2026 World Cup.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: One World Cup held in not one, not two, but three countries. A signing ceremony confirming the United States, Mexico and Canada will submit a joint bid to host the 2026 World Cup. First time ever, three countries could simultaneously host football's standout tournament.

RICK WESTHEAD: There was one problem to host the men's World Cup. A country needs to have a men's professional domestic league. According to FIFA, the governing body for international soccer. So the idea was hatched to start a league in Canada called the Canadian Premier League. And one of the ways that that Canada Soccer made an appeal to potential investors in this league was that they would be paid out down the road. For corporate sponsorship sales. Right. And the way they did this was by forming a company called Canada Soccer Business, we'll call it CSB. And so CSB, it's owned by the same people who own the Canadian Premier League teams. And the deal that was signed between Canada Soccer and CSB sees Canada Soccer, the Federation paid a flat rate of between three and $4 million a year. Right. And on the flip side, Canada soccer business, the CPL gets to keep all of the revenue from media rights for the Canadian national teams and all of the sponsorship revenue. So all of the 14 national sponsors that Canada Soccer has, all of the money from those deals goes to CSB.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So Canada Soccer governs the sport nationally is funded by public tax dollars. But CSB that's privately owned, it's making money off the men's and women's national Leagues and it pays a set amount of whatever, three or $4 million a year to Canada soccer for that, right. But the money it's making off of those sponsorship deals. That money is going to the Canadian Premier League.

RICK WESTHEAD: Yes. And I think it's important to point out, like in what Canada soccer business and the CPO say is that this was the best deal that Canada Soccer was going to get. There were no networks falling over themselves to sign contracts with Canada Soccer. You know, Alphonso Davies had not exploded as a as a global superstar yet. You know, it was unclear at that point, unlikely that Canada was going to qualify for the World Men's World Cup that we just had in Qatar. So the idea that Canada would get as good as it has so fast was still something that people did not appreciate at that time. The problem, though, in this contract, according to the people that I've talked to, is signing away your rights for 19 years.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Oh, that's the issue. Yeah.

RICK WESTHEAD: Right. And not having any ability to renegotiate or trigger an out clause and, you know, say, hey, let's take another look at this, because obviously you guys are bringing in a lot more money than anyone anticipated that you would.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Right. So so part of it is that the ground has shifted. Right. Like Canadian soccer men's and women's has has stepped up in the world arena in a way that, you know, I think is fair to say, nobody could have predicted. However, there were no off ramps built into this deal. And I understand that there's no there's no going back on this deal for a term of, what, 19 years or so?

RICK WESTHEAD: That's that's right. It's been it's a ten year deal to start with. And then Kpl, the private company, has an exclusive option to extend it for another nine years. This deal can be in place through 2037 if the private company and the CPA want it to be.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Now, do we have any sense of how much money is being made here? I know it sounds like Canada soccer's making three or $4 million a year, but what is being pulled in, how much money is being pulled in by CSB and the sponsorship deals? Do we have a sense of that?

RICK WESTHEAD: We have no sense. I've talked to some people who run national sport organizations and I've asked them how much they would estimate Canada. Soccer's collective corporate sponsorship revenue would be They've estimated somewhere between 15 and $20 million a year. That's just a guess. You know, it's an educated guess. We may be closer to getting some answers, though.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Canada soccer president Nick Bond to step down from his role on Monday. Earlier this week, What led up to that?

RICK WESTHEAD: Well, to hear Nick Bourne to say in he put a statement out, he just figured that this was something that there was a change needed and that there was new blood needed in the negotiations between the federation and the two national teams. The truth is that if he had not resigned, he was likely to be fired. Hours before he he announced his resignation, something called the President's Council, which is a collective of the provincial and territorial soccer associations in Canada. They sent Nick Bond just a letter saying that they had lost confidence in him and said that if he did not resign, they would call for a special meeting to seek his ouster.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So he preemptively acted on that, it sounds like.

RICK WESTHEAD: Yes.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So Canada Soccer then announced on Wednesday. Former Olympic track athlete Charmaine Crooks will take over as interim president. She's the first woman. And also, incidentally, she's the first person of color to lead Canada soccer. Do you think her election will satisfy the players calling for a leadership change?

RICK WESTHEAD: I'm not sure because Charmaine Crookes has been within the board of Canada soccer for many years. And so she was there at the time when this controversial deal with Canada soccer business was signed. She was there last fall when the Canadian women's team was being told, We don't have enough money for you to go play your games in Brazil. And she's been there in recent months when they've agreed on a budget for the women's national team, which has been so drastically cut. You know, I would like to ask Charmaine Crux, what did you say to the board? What did you say to Nick Bontis? How much of a fight did you put up on behalf of the women's national team saying, no, it's not acceptable. We cannot cut this team's budget. We have to find the money somewhere. You know, people are calling for answers.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Okay, Rick. Looking ahead, starting next week, this issue is going to go before the parliamentary Heritage Committee in Ottawa. Now, we've seen a few hearings with other sports. What do you think is going to come out of this one?

RICK WESTHEAD: I think it's going to be very interesting. I don't know that a lot of Canadians appreciated what the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage was before last year. And last year, the same committee called Hockey Canada's top officials to testify right about the organization's response to a particular sexual assault allegation in 2018 in London, Ontario. But also, just more broadly, how the organization responded to allegations of sexual assault and abuse and harassment. And so that committee on March nine is going to hear from four players Christine Sinclair, Sophie Schmidt, Janine, Beckie and Quinn. And they have all agreed to travel to Ottawa and testify in person. And it should be very telling following that meeting on March 20th. I understand that Nick Bontis, even though he has resigned, we'll still be summoned to testify about what's happened at the Federation. Earl Cochrane, the general secretary of Canada. Soccer will also likely be called to testify. And I think one of the basic questions that these camps will be asking the leaders of the federation under oath is where is the money? And I think we may finally get some answers.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: And the Heritage Committee has the power to request the documentation that the players haven't been successful in getting out of them. And I understand that correctly.

RICK WESTHEAD: Yes, you are. The Heritage Committee actually has remarkable powers. I didn't appreciate this until I started reporting on the committee last year as we talked about this controversial contract between Canada Soccer and CSP was negotiated in 2017. Well, the Heritage Committee this week ordered Canada Soccer to turn over all of the board meeting records from 2017. So they want to see what those records show about the kind of conversations that went on in the Canada soccer board room in negotiating that deal. And it'll be interesting to find out, like for one, how well these records were kept. Which leads us to another question of accountability. Right. Like a national sport organization, if they're receiving taxpayer dollars, you know, should be insisted that they are keeping good records. But what this committee also has the power to do is to pierce attorney client privilege. So if this was a lawsuit, Canada Soccer would be able to hold back a number of documents saying, well, this this was communication between the federation and our lawyers over this dispute. Well, the Heritage Committee can demand documents like that, even if they are between lawyers and the client. So they're able to get a lot of information. It's up to the employers who are on that committee ultimately to decide how much of it to put into the public domain.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So Rick, I'm curious about what your sense of how the federation moves forward is.

RICK WESTHEAD: It's a good question where this goes from now. The Contract with Canada Soccer business and Canada soccer is in place. And so for the foreseeable future, the Federation can count on that guaranteed 3 to $4 million a year. Unless Canada soccer business can be convinced to reopen the contract. And maybe that'll happen. Maybe the professional league and CSB will see the damage that this is doing to the brand of soccer in Canada and say it's not worth it. You know, we need to go back to the table. We need to give a little bit more to try to get everybody back on the same page. It'll be interesting to see whether Charmaine Crooks can somehow earn the trust of players on both national teams. So interesting. Some are coming ahead. I mean, we're at a time when we should be celebrating soccer. And, you know, you've heard for years about how it's the largest participation sport in Canada. Maybe one day it could challenge even hockey in terms of, you know, being our country's most popular sport. We heard about the launch of a professional women's soccer league in Canada. And so all kinds of indications are this is great. The sport is growing here. There is so much to be optimistic about. But I suppose that's only true if these people can get out of their own way and figure out a way to get these contracts signed and get players onside.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Well, as you say, an interesting summer ahead, huh?

RICK WESTHEAD: That's right.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Rick, thanks so much for coming on.

RICK WESTHEAD: My pleasure.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: So Thursday evening, after we finished recording this episode, Canada Soccer announced it had reached a deal in principle with the women's national team. The interim funding agreement covers the players pay for 2022. It doesn't address many of the other issues we've talked about, like budget cuts and World Cup prep. And though the Federation didn't go into details. Canada Soccer says the deal was based on one with the men's team last summer, but the ordeal is not over yet. Canada Soccer still needs to negotiate an overarching collective bargaining agreement with both the men's and women's national teams. So that means the deal in principle they reached today. That could change. All right. That's us for this week. Front Burner was produced this week by Shannon Higgins, Rafferty Baker, Derek Vander Wyck, Lauren Donnelly, Matt Omaha, and Jodi Martinson. Our sound design was by Sam McNulty and Mackenzie Cameron. Our intern is Abby Hughes. Our music is by Joseph Shavelson. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe Lokos. And our hosts this week were Jody Martinson and me. Damien Fairless. Thanks for listening to Front Burner. We'll be back next week.

As Canadian soccer rises: turmoil, strikes and fights- Transcript