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The AIH transcript for May 26, 2023

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

HM: Alberta Unbound. With a provincial election imminent, a Calgary pollster tells us about new numbers that suggest it's no longer necessarily a dead heat between the United Conservative Party and the NDP.

CH: Clear and present dangers. A U.S. Navy investigation finds that the course it uses to pick elite SEAL commandos isn't just gruelling. It's extremely dangerous and potentially deadly.

HM: Unsafe Harbour, Médecins Sans Frontières wants Greek authorities to investigate allegations that migrants are being set adrift at sea. One MSF coordinator tells us she's especially worried about the hundreds of asylum seekers who have gone missing.

CH: In this case, the number one rule isn't location, location, location. It's Marsha, Marsha, Marsha. If you know that's a Brady Bunch reference, then a Los Angeles realtor would also like you to know that the house from that ‘70s series is up for sale.

HM: Mission Impossum-ible. There are no possums in Alaska, so when one sneaks in, officials plan to bump her off -- until the public intervenes to save her and her future changes in the blink of a beady eye.

CH: And the inside scoop. In the U.K., a popular ice cream cone features a Cadbury Flake bar stuck in vanilla soft serve. But a drop in the quality of that chocolate bar has vendors melting down.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio believes changing a classic cone doesn't make a lick of sense.

Part 1: Alberta Election Setup, MSF Greek Migrants Report, Brady Bunch House

Alberta Election Setup

Guest: Janet Brown

CH: Albertans are heading into the last weekend of their provincial election campaign. And if you're tired of hearing that it's a neck-and-neck race between Danielle Smith's United Conservatives and Rachel Notley's NDP, then Janet Brown is offering some relief before Monday's vote. Ms. Brown is a Calgary-based pollster. Today, she released fresh numbers commissioned by the CBC. And They have her thinking that Albertans may be ready to make their choice. We reached Janet Brown in Calgary.

HM: Janet Brown, what do these latest numbers tell you about what is likely to happen on Monday night?

JANET BROWN: Well, the top line numbers, the province-wide numbers, suggest that the UCP has an eight-point lead over the NDP. But to really understand what's going on in Alberta, you've got to look at the regional numbers because, you know, I think people outside of Alberta don't appreciate how politically diverse we are as a province. Edmonton and Calgary are very different, and then the rest of the province is different still. So, it looks like the NDP have a huge lead in Edmonton, like 16 points. The UCP has a huge lead outside of the two major cities. But what's really interesting right now is what's happening in Calgary. I have the UCP three points ahead, but really it's too close to call in what we're calling Battleground Calgary.

HM: And when we look at how that would translate potentially to seats, you're dealing with, I believe, 87 seats. What kind of numbers are we looking at based on what you're seeing?

JB: Correct. There's 87 seats in total in the province. And within the city of Edmonton, there's 20 seats. The NDP already hold 19. And, you know, I think, I think it's good money to bet that they'll probably win 20 out of those 20. Outside of Calgary and Edmonton, there's another 41 seats, and I don't know that the UCP will get all of them. But you know, 35 seats are pretty certain there. So before you even start counting ballots in Calgary, the UCP has a 15-seat advantage. So that means the 26 remaining seats that are in Calgary, the NDP has to almost sweep the board for the math to work in their favour.

HM: For weeks, you know, we heard that this race was too close to call, that it was all going to come down to that handful of ridings in and around Calgary that you're referring to, that that tends to be the conventional wisdom in the province. What do you think has happened to tip things towards Danielle Smith and the UCP?

JB: Well, I think the only reason we are talking about a close election is because of Danielle Smith. Calgary traditionally votes, you know, Conservative both provincially and federally. It's kind of the natural predisposition of the majority of people in Calgary. And it's only because Danielle Smith's the leader that some Conservatives are either abandoning the UCP or feeling uneasy about voting for the UCP. Had Jason Kenney managed to survive his leadership review, and if he were running today, and believe me, he wasn't a very popular leader, but if he'd been running today, I think he'd be cruising to a much easier victory. But this election has very much come down to Danielle Smith, controversial things she said in the past. You know, her, her leadership style and her judgement, and that's why it's close.

HM: Was there not a time there that people thought the NDP was going to cruise to victory?

JB: Well, if you had asked me four months ago, I would have said absolutely, the NDP is set to win. Because all through the pandemic, the NDP was leading in the polls. And then, when Danielle Smith was elected leader of the UCP, there was so much concern about her, it looked like she'd be an easy leader for the NDP to defeat. And it's not that people have sort of warmed up to Smith. It's not that there's been a huge change in her positive numbers, but she's kind of inched forward. She's, she's kind of managed to be, you know, to just be quiet enough and look sensible enough during this leadership campaign that people are sort of willing to overlook her as a leader and trust that the UCP will still be the best option. So, you know, it's not that there's been a whole bunch of momentum in this race, but it's like the UCP inched forward and the NDP, their support and Rachel Notley's approval slightly eroded and now, we're in this sort of neck and neck race.

HM: What does that say about the NDP strategy throughout the campaign, which appears to have been hanging everything on Danielle Smith and trying to convince voters that she was too much of a wildcard?

JB: Well, in many ways, they followed the same strategy they did in 2019, which wasn't a winning strategy for them. They focussed a lot of their effort on the fact that Rachel Notley was more likeable than Jason Kenney in 2019. And now they're really the focus of this campaign. When, you know, when I drive out my door, I see these billboards, Danielle Smith's head on top of a weathervane. What will she do next? So the NDP have really put the focus on negative advertising toward Smith, and they have done a very effective job in raising concerns about Smith. But by putting so much effort on the negative side of the campaign, I think if the NDP comes up short, it's going to be because they didn't put enough effort into communicating an affirmative message about what they were going to deliver as government.

HM: The UCP has made the argument that the NDP cannot be trusted with the economy. That's a familiar refrain, refrain for them. It's certainly the oil and gas industry and the handling of that that seems to have been their main focus. What did the numbers tell you about the impact their strategy has had on Rachel Notley's chances?

JB: Well, when we ask people, you know, you give people a long list of issues, and you say which party is best able to manage them, the UCP or the NDP? The UCP generally gets higher marks when it comes to anything economic, but the NDP gets higher marks when it comes to anything related to social programs, health care, education. So as I said, if these numbers hold, it's because the voters are going to go into the ballot box thinking more about economy than they were about social programs.

HM: Well, you're not the only one who thinks that the results of this election hang on Calgary ridings. The former Mayor of Calgary, Naheed Nenshi, told our colleagues in the city this morning that he thinks it will come down to a handful of Calgary ridings. At this point, based on what you're looking at, which voters are going to decide the election Monday?

JB: Well, I like to think of Calgary as, like, a barometer. The further north you are in the city, the more likely you are to find NDP voters. And the further south you go in the city, the more likely you are to find UCP voters. And there's kind of this magic line for people who are familiar with Calgary -- Glenmore Trail. So on election night, when you're looking at that map, look for how far south the orange goes, how far north the blue goes. If the UCP can win seats north of Glenmore Trail, they're going to have a good night. In order to form government, the NDP is going to have to be able to win seats south of Glenmore Trail.

HM: I am one of the people who will be watching on Monday and taking your guidance on what to look for. [JB laughs] Thank you so much. Good to talk to you.

JB: Thank you very much.

CH: Janet Brown is a pollster based in Calgary. Her poll for CBC news was based on a random survey of 1,200 Albertans. If you want to learn more about the methodology, there's a story up on the CBC Calgary website. And for a deeper dive on the Alberta election, our colleagues at CBC Radio's The House will be broadcasting from Calgary tomorrow, right after the 9 a.m. news.

[chillhop]

MSF Greek Migrants Report

Guest: Nihal Osman

CH: Three migrants have died, and up to 12 others are missing, after their dinghy overturned this morning off the coast of Greece. It's just the latest tragedy as migrants continue to seek refuge in Europe. And as we recently learned, even those who successfully make the crossing may not be safe. Last week, we heard from Fayad Mulla, an activist who filmed a group of migrants in Lesbos, Greece, being taken by force, put on a boat, and seemingly cast out to sea by the Greek Coast Guard. Now, Médecins Sans Frontières is joining calls for an investigation -- asking Greek authorities to look into the hundreds of migrants it says have gone missing over the past year after landing in Greece. Nihal Osman is the MSF project coordinator in Lesbos.

HM: Nihal, I think in the past, a lot of people have focussed on people drowning at sea trying to make their way to safety. But you're concerned also about what happens to people once they do arrive on land. Your organization says some 940 people have gone missing. What do you think may have happened to them?

NIHAL OSMAN: As MSF, we never witnessed a pushback. However, all of our patients report to us things that happened to them, and most of our patients report that they have been pushed back at least once before they reached the Greek islands. It means that they try in the first time to come, and they are allegedly pushed back by unidentified individuals and forcibly returned to Turkey.

HM: When you say pushed back, what do you mean? How were they pushed back?

NO: Again, I will share what our patients share with us. And what they tell us is that they would reach the shore, and then they will start running as fast as possible to reach a place where they can hide all the way up in the mountains. And this is where we usually find them, to hide from these individuals that would be chasing them, to actually kidnap them and put them on, on a boat back to Turkey.

HM: So, you have managed to find some of these people before they get pushed back. Are you and other aid groups feeling as if you are almost in a race to get to these people before those who might be pushing them back out to sea?

NO: We try to get to their location as soon as possible. Also, in terms of medical emergency, because sometimes we have pregnant women who are about to deliver or people with chronic diseases who haven't eaten for days. People hide for a very long time in the bush, in the mountains. So, they are in, in quite critical condition. So we would go as fast as possible. But it happens often that when we arrive, the whole group is not there.

HM: What do you assume has happened to that group when you don't find them?

NO: So, they would report that some people from the, from the group who were on the boat, people report to us that these people have been kidnapped and pushed back.

HM: Back in the fall, MSF teams got an alert about a group of migrants who had arrived on Lesbos. Can you tell me what they found?

NO: I don't know exactly which event you are mentioning. When MSF team arrived at the location, some people had plastic handcuffs around their wrists, and some other things were on the floor. And we found only a few people from the main group. And people again reported to us that individuals came, full, full face masks on, and they, they, they tried to, to immobilize them, to put them in a van and then drive them all the way to the shore and then put them on the boat and push them back to Turkey. This is what people report to us.

HM: There are reports in The New York Times that that some of these individuals are saying that they are doctors. Some are saying they are actually with Médecins Sans Frontières. Have you heard that?

NO: We heard that, indeed. Sometimes, the people are tricked into believing that the voices that they hear are from doctors. So, they reported to us several times that people were saying, we are doctors. You can come out because this is what we do, usually. When we arrive at the location, we say, This is MSF. You are safe. You can come out because we know that they're, that they're hiding. So this is how we proceed, usually. We give our names, they give, they give their names, and then we try to establish some trust and contact with the people. And it has become more and more difficult to actually tell people to come out of the mountains and the places they're hiding in. And this is what they shared with us. They say now it's very difficult for us to believe because sometimes people say that they are doctors. We never heard for the MSF one, but the doctors definitely.

HM: Who do you think these masked people are? What kind of leads have you heard about?

NO: To be honest, as MSF, we have no idea. We have no idea who these people are. And we are waiting to see the results of these investigations. We really hope that the Greek authorities, together with the EU, actually commission who's here, they will proceed with a transparent and fruitful investigation.

HM: Our guest on, on the show last week discussing the video, showing people being pushed back, suggested that these were Greek police officers who were masked. Have you heard anybody else suggest that?

NO: Usually, when we arrive at a location and where we treat our patients, even in our clinic in Mitilini on Lesbos, people are with the authorities. They're with the authorities, but they would not really give details about this also because they are in distress. They are terrified. They're hiding. They are running for their lives, apparently. So, they would see authorities, they would say masked men. But we don't know exactly who these people are.

HM: You are calling on Greek authorities to investigate all of these claims. The Greek prime minister told CNN that his government was not involved in setting migrants adrift. He said he has asked for an investigation of the video showing such a thing. Do you think Greece is doing enough to ensure that this doesn't keep happening?

NO: Again, I will, I will say that as MSF, since we started, with all the alerts that we've been receiving from the UNHCR and other actors, we can count that more than 940 people haven't been found at the location when we go. So something is happening.

HM: Nihal Osman, thank you very much for telling us about it. I appreciate it.

NO: You're most welcome.

CH: Nihal Osman is the MSF project coordinator in Lesbos, Greece, and that's where we reached her.

[folk]

Brady Bunch House

Guest: Danny Brown

[“The Brady Bunch Theme Song”]

CH: When you hear that theme, you instantly think of the complex plot lines, subtle performances, and sharp dialogue that made The Brady Bunch a sitcom classic in the 1970. And even if you remember the show… differently, you must remember the house where the Bradys lived. A state-of-the-art '70s split-level ranch-style home with a wholesomely groovy interior, heavy on burnt orange upholstery and avocado appliances. Well, that house exists. Not just in your mind, filed in your hippocampus next to Laverne and Shirley's basement apartment. No -- the house used for exterior shots stands on a regular residential street in Studio City, California. In 2018, HGTV converted the entire interior into an exact replica of the set where the sitcom was shot. And now, it could be yours: the house is up for sale, listed at $5.5 million US. Danny Brown is the real estate agent. We reached him in Los Angeles.

HM: Danny, you're the real estate agent for this listing. Give me your pitch. Why is The Brady Bunch house a good deal at five and a half million dollars?

DANNY BROWN: It's priceless. It's a piece of American sitcom history. It's a piece of pop culture history. The next owner will be the steward of this iconic property, the second most photographed home in the United States after the White House. [chuckling]

HM: I'm surprised.

DB: Yeah, it's the second. Well, purportedly, that's what I've been told. It's the second most photographed home in America after the White House. So, any time you're at the house, you know, I've been by several times, there's people showing up day and night taking pictures of the house.

HM: You know this market. So, what kind of buyer do you think is likely to buy the place?

DB: This is going to be a house collector or an investor, someone that loves the Brady Bunch or wants to have and own a piece of the American pop culture dream in history. [chuckle] This is not going to be a typical family. I mean, it could be a fanatic with a lot of money, but that's highly unlikely.

HM: The last time it was on the market, there were reports that Lance Bass from NSYNC was interested and was outbid by HGTV, the decorating channel. Are you hearing of anyone we might know this time around?

DB: [laughing] Well, a lot of it is under wraps. But I will say I did speak to Lance yesterday, and I'll probably be seeing him sometime soon. There's a lot of high-profile people that want to come see the property. So, at this point, we can't really disclose that information. But, yes. There's a lot of people.

HM: But you've been talking to Lance. We got in our heads, but Lance is still interested.

DB: Yes, he is still interested. There's a lot of celebrity interest and high-profile interest from people in the industry and, you know, people that grew up on The Brady Bunch, and they see the value in owning an iconic asset. This isn't just a typical home.

HM: Right. And, you know, you're talking about people photographing the exterior. But the interior, years ago, was, as I understand it, was actually just shot in a soundstage. So, now how close does the interior of the house look like what we imagine it would?

DB: Exactly. It's an exact replica. It will blow your mind. When you're in that house, you have a visceral reaction. It's as if you're in the show, living in the show. It's perfect. You can't imagine how much trouble they went into to match frame by frame, piece by piece. Every inch of this house looks like this is the real deal. Even though there was no real deal, there was no house. Like you said, it's on the Paramount set. That's where they shot the show.

HM: For those who either don't remember or who have never seen The Brady Bunch, paint us the picture of what those interiors are like.

DB: [chuckle] Well, when you walk in there, it's a mid-century-type architecture. It's got the iconic floating staircase in the middle of the living room, the burnt orange Formica kitchen counters and the lime green refrigerator may ring a bell to people. It really takes you back to a very specific era in time of the, of the early '70s. Yeah, it's just amazing. And, you know, it's a time capsule.

HM: Yeah, you don't see a lot of avocado-coloured fridges these days.

DB: [laughing] No.

HM: Given, you know, your experience as a real estate agent, if this wasn't a famous TV house or TV set, how would you describe the style of the interior design?

DB: [laughing] Brady Bunch chic, mid-century design. I mean, there is no, there is no way to define it. This is the '70s, shaggy chic, you know, type of deal, or not too many people are looking for this style right now unless you're looking to reminisce.

HM: So, if a similar house was on the market, would you kind of suggest a gut and a really good staging?

DB: Yes. You know, originally, you know, when the house went up for sale five years ago, when HGTV bought it, it was a tear-down. If it wasn't The Brady Bunch house, it would have been torn down by a developer and built into a massive mega-mansion. That's what most people would have done with this. It's definitely not the typical house that a normal family would want to live in.

HM: Right. I don't know how old you are. Did you grow up watching The Brady Bunch either when it ran or in reruns?

DB: Yes, I, I watched the reruns for years. I've watched every episode. I'm a huge, huge fan. I've even watched reruns with my kids now. So they love it. And, yeah, it's really, it really was one of my favourite shows growing up.

HM: So, as a super fan, what was it like for you when you first walked into this restored house?

DB: I had a visceral reaction. Literally, when I went into Greg's attic room, I was getting dizzy. My equilibrium was off because it's actually built on the ground level because that's just how they had to build it. But it looks like the attic. So when you walk in there, you get really turned around and dizzy. And you know, that said, you know, it was a very visceral, emotional reaction. You feel like you're living in the TV show when you walk through that house.

HM: Wow. So if someone's out there listening, and they might have an extra five and a half million in the bank, how do they go about putting in an offer on this house?

DB: You can reach me. Put in your offer, bring your bag of cash. It's going to be competitive. I think there's going to be a ton of interest. And I wouldn't be surprised if a bidding war ensues over the next few weeks.

HM: All right. Well, people have fair warning. If they want the house, they got to move fast, it sounds like.

DB: Yeah, you got to hurry up. Get in there.

HM: Danny, thank you so much. Lots of fun.

DB: Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good weekend.

HM: You too. Bye-bye.

DB: All right, take care. Bye-bye.

CH: Danny Brown is the real estate agent for The Brady Bunch house. We reached him in Los Angeles.

[jazz]

Possum In Alaska

CH: As soon as the fugitive arrived in town, she had to make herself scarce. Because the second she landed in Homer, Alaska, she was Public Enemy Number One -- a dangerous hood whose ugly mug was seared into the minds of every innocent resident. Some wanted her dead. Others wanted her kept alive, so she could play dead. All she wanted was a place to get some grub -- maybe some actual grubs. That's what she was looking for when she was first seen on Grubstake Avenue. Which is why they call her..."Grubby". Grubby the Possum. You may not know this, but there are no possums in Alaska. And Alaska would like to keep it that way. So Grubby was one possum too many. That's why the city of Homer has been on high alert since March, when she was found to have stowed away in a shipping container from Washington state -- before she disappeared into the shadows. She had good reason to hide: wildlife officials said that if they found her, they'd send her to hell in a hail of gunfire. Or, to be more accurate, they'd euthanize her in a less dramatic, but equally final, way. Well, this week, police apprehended Grubby. But after a public outcry, her death sentence has been commuted: rather than pushing up the daisies, she'll be eating them -- as a permanent resident of the Alaska Zoo, where she will make children say "ew, why is its face like that" for the rest of her life. A remarkable turnaround for a creature that, just a few weeks ago, was considered the poss-sum of all fears.

[elevator music]

Part 2: Navy SEALs Training Report, 99 Cone Crisis

Navy SEALs Training Report

Guest: Dave Philipps

CH: It's a famously merciless course used to select elite Navy SEAL commandos. But now, a US Navy investigation has found that the course is so brutal that it has put trainees' lives at risk. The investigation followed a report in the New York Times about a Navy SEAL candidate who died after taking the course last year. It documented, as the headline put it, a, quote, "culture of brutality, cheating and drugs." Unquote. Dave Philipps was the Times military reporter who wrote that story. We reached him in Colorado Springs.

HM: Dave, how brutal is the US Navy SEAL selection course supposed to be?

DAVE PHILIPPS: Well, whenever you're selecting for elite commandos, you need the training to be tough, right? But the balance has always been how do you make it tough but not so tough that good candidates are getting broken? And, traditionally, it's been tough enough that even when you select for, for very fit people, seven out of 10 fail.

HM: Give us a sense of the kinds of training exercises these people go through.

DP: It all takes place on a beach down in San Diego, California, and it's just a series of gruelling obstacle courses carrying heavy inflatable boats, swimming in the frigid ocean. More than anything, it's that, day after day, with very little sleep, you're expected to keep going. And the idea is for the first days of the training is to really weed people out and see who's left standing.

HM: Can you tell us what this Navy investigation found going wrong?

DP: Basically, there was a creep in the mission so that the course that was already hard became dangerously hard. Inexperienced and poorly-trained leadership and instructors came in. They slowly sort of pushed things to try and do what probably they thought was their job, but pushed things towards getting dangerous and out of the sort of official curriculum. There was medical staff that was on hand and was supposed to step in and prevent injuries, but they, too, were poorly trained, didn't have a good system of procedures in place. And in a lot of ways, they were enamoured of the SEAL instructors that were running things. They didn't want to step in and blow a whistle and say, time out. And finally, there was leadership overseeing all this training that even though they were being warned that people were getting hurt, that the number of people failing out of the classes was rising sharply, they didn't take enough meaningful action. In fact, they dismissed the rise in failures as just the current generation being too soft.

HM: The Navy investigation follows your own investigating about the death of a young seaman named Kyle Mullen. What did you find out about how Kyle Mullen died?

DP: The story of Kyle Mullen is really just the story of a system that had maybe a dozen chances to help a young sailor but didn't. He was going through this brutal training, and probably because of exhaustion, he developed pneumonia and other ailments. But he kept pushing because he wanted to become a SEAL. And the instructor, probably admiring his grit, didn't step in. And the same with the medical staff; even though he was, according to witnesses, coughing up copious amounts of fluid, no one stopped him, even when his oxygen level dropped low. And then when he made it through the hardest part of the training, he got only the most basic medical check and was handed over to be watched by young sailors who had no medical training. And when he went back to his barracks to rest, he died. So it was an easily preventable death. And a death they should have seen coming because these types of injuries were happening all the time.

HM: Well, in fact, from, from what I read, the condition he was suffering from, one of the ones, the respiratory situation, was so common that it seems almost as if these trainees were, were to expect it.

DP: Right. And that's true with so much in this course. If you're running the course day in and day out and seeing people suffering, things that to an outsider might seem alarming become normal. And so they thought it was very normal to have students with lots of fluid in their lungs. They thought it was very normal to see people stumbling around, unable to speak well or keep their balance. And, you know, I think they expected students to just deal with it.

HM: The Navy's investigation quotes the commander of Navy special warfare at the time, a Rear Admiral, Hugh Howard, responding to this drop in the number of succeeding trainees saying, quote, zero is an okay number. Hold the standard. I mean, as you point out, you have to wonder what the rationale might be to have a selection course that no one could even complete.

DP: Well, the people that have been running the course for its entirety are people who've all been through the course, and they hold it highly in esteem in their organization. And so, anything that might be seen as making it easier is really seen by them as apostasy. Now, is that really the right way to approach things? Is this training that they've been doing for more than 50 years really selecting for the people that they want and who would do a good job in their organization? I don't know if there's any good evidence to that. But certainly, it would be very, very hard to change.

HM: What changes does the investigation suggest need to be made here?

DP: They're mostly changes to the system, better standard operating procedures, better oversight, little tinkers that don't really get to the hardest question of this whole thing, which is: if you have a selection course that is supposed to be difficult in order to weed people out, how do you make it find the people you actually want to and not accidentally leave the people that might be good candidates broken?

HM: Kyle Mullen was so, I don't want to say desperate, but he was so keen to be a SEAL. He was so dedicated to this effort. His mother has, has been demanding answers since her son died. How is she responding to the results of the Navy's investigation?

DP: I think she's frustrated. I think she wanted to see some bigger changes, including having the training of SEALS taken away from, from the Navy SEALs organization and given to the larger Navy. She felt that would have better oversight and put it in the hands of people who know how to do training and education. That so far has not happened. I think that she's going to continue to push for accountability. She also feels like the men in charge who let her son die, nothing has happened to them and she's angry about that.

HM: Dave, thank you very much for your reporting and for, for telling us about it.

DP: Naw, I appreciate your time.

CH: Dave Philipps is a two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning military reporter with the New York Times. We reached him in Colorado Springs.

[ambient]

Zelenskyy Commencement

CH: Yesterday, organizers at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore had a surprise for graduates: an unannounced commencement speech delivered by Voldymyr Zelenskyy. The Ukrainian President addressed the gathering by livestream -- and was awarded an honorary doctorate from the university, following his words to the graduating class.

SOUNDCLIP

VOLDYMYR ZELENSKYY: Recently, I was on the frontline again in one of the most fiercely fought areas of the frontline against the Russian occupiers. I went to personally award the best fighters and to congratulate our Marines on the day of Marines of Ukraine. And, you know, the front in Ukraine consists of very, very different people who are fighting for freedom and independence. These are people of all ages, and among them are exactly the same folks as you are now. Some of them have already passed their graduation ceremony. Others are only dreaming about it. They and you have similar hopes for life. Similar expectations from life. But there is fundamental difference that comes down to the question of time. The time of your life is under your control, the time of life of our force on the frontline, the time of life of all Ukrainians who are forced to live through this terrible Russian aggression, unfortunately, is subject to many factors that are not all in their control. And, by the way, if anyone here is going to become a politician, remember that this is exactly what your job will be, to muster time, to make the time of your people and you country’s control of your people under any circumstances, so that your people receive an answer to any question about what the time of their life will be like. And this century will be our century, a century where freedom, innovation and democratic values reign. A century where tyrannies that repress or seek to enslave their neighbours will vanish from us one us and for all. But all of our tomorrows and the tomorrows of our children and grandchildren depends on each of our todays, on each of our todays.

CH: That was Ukrainian President Voldymyr Zelenskyy delivering the commencement speech to the graduates at Johns Hopkins University yesterday.

[religious bells]

San Francisco Drag Laureate

CH: Jurisdictions around the U.S. are trying to silence drag performers. But one city is putting drag centre-stage. And that city, not surprisingly, is San Francisco. Today, it announced the nation's first drag laureate. D'Arcy Drollinger will receive a $55,000 stipend to publicly celebrate the art of drag. She will also raise the Pride Flag at San Francisco City Hall to kick off Pride Month. Here is D'Arcy Drolinger speaking to the BBC's Devina Gupta.

SOUNDCLIP

D’ARCY DROLINGER: It's quite exciting to be the first one to take this on and to carve out what, what it is. It's basically an ambassador for the LGBTQ+ community and the drag community and work with different city agencies and businesses and help build bridges in a lot of ways. And also, to preserve the history of the LGBTQ+ community in the Bay Area and nationally.

DEVINA GUPTA: Well, you talk about nationally. But many Republican-led states especially have seen a serious pushback from lawmakers who are trying to restrict public viewing of drag shows because it seems to be inappropriate, according to them, for children. So, do you think there could be a positive impact with this step?

DD: Well, I hope that it will be a beacon of light for all of those people that are in those states that are struggling against this legislation and this rhetoric that is just really kind of crazy and coming out of left field. So, I hope that it inspires other cities and states around the country and around the world to, to take this initiative and offer these roles because I do think, you know, the drag performers are more than entertainment. You know, we, we do a lot of community organizing and we've got a big voice in politics in the Bay Area.

CH: That was San Francisco's new drag laureate D'Arcy Drollinger speaking to the BBC's Devina Gupta.

[hip-hop]

99 Cone Crisis

Guest: John Taylor

CH: Around the world, they tend to present themselves as fun-loving purveyors of cold treats. But in the U.K. right now, ice cream vendors are issuing their strongest cone-demnation. It's related to what's called the "99 Cone" -- a British ice cream delicacy, consisting of vanilla soft serve topped with a Cadbury Flake -- which, if you're unfamiliar, a half-size flaky chocolate bar. John Taylor is the owner of C&M Creamery Ices, an ice cream van in the Harrogate District. He is among those who say the quality of the Cadbury Flakes is not what it once was. We reached him in Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England.

HM: John, what is happening with Cadbury Flakes?

JOHN TAYLOR: The quality of the actual product seems to have deteriorated rapidly at the start of this, this season. I've had lots of fellow ice cream people who have got shops and vans who are basically going to leave Cadbury and go for an alternative product because they're just, they're just horrible. They've just gone very, very sharply downhill.

HM: And how have they gone downhill? What's wrong with them?

JT: Well, they're normally, obviously, they're normally a little sort of, you know, thin rectangle of chocolate. They are crumbly to a point by nature. So, you know, sometimes if you've dropped a box or whatever, then, you know, you get the odd one or two damaged. There's 144 in a box. You might, you know, you might lose a couple of box. And everybody kind of accepts that because, as I say, it's the nature of the product. But there's whole boxes where they're, they're just crumbs. It's just like they've been put in a blender.

HM: What do you think has changed? Like, are they doing something different?

JT: Well, obviously, Mondelez, or however you pronounce, has taken over Cadbury. Cadbury was obviously a British institution chocolate-wise. And they've been in charge of Cadbury for a while. They used to manufacture the product in Dublin, I think, somewhere in Ireland, anyway. I'm sure it was Dublin, could have been Belfast. But certainly in Ireland. And they've moved it over to Egypt, which obviously is another issue, you know, if you're that way inclined about carbon footprints and things that it matters that the majority of their market, I assume to be, sort of Europe and also U.K. And, you know, they're coming all the way from Egypt.

HM: Right, so they have to ship them a long distance.

JT: Yeah. So I mean, you've got the factory in Egypt, you've got whoever gets them from A to B, C to D, E to F, and I guess by the time we get them, you know, they'll have had sort of three or four people around them. But, again, some of these boxes are that bad that even if the wagon or the delivery truck had crashed, you know, been in a motor accident, you wouldn't get the damage that some of these boxes have, have perceived because the box itself is not damaged. It's when you open the box, the stuff inside it is just, is just worthless. It's just useless.

HM: Yeah, I have to say, I really love a Cadbury Flake. I'm just wondering, is it the full-sized bar as well, do you know? Or just the ones that you guys are using in ice cream?

JT: I don't know. Because obviously, we don't use the full-size bars. Obviously, these are, obviously, like, the almost half-size, I guess, maybe a bit less. And, obviously, they're manufactured purely for ice cream catering purposes.

HM: Mm-hmm. So you say that they used to be the only manufacturer. Are there others making something, a similar product?

JT: Yeah, there are others. There's an alternative now making a similar product. And they, they have to market them, I think, I don't know what the trademark issues are or whatever, but they're marketed as a milk chocolate stick. And they're made in Germany by a company called Lasseter's, and they're, obviously, they're a lot more robust in terms of their structure.

HM: Are you planning on changing suppliers?

JT: So I've not actually had to buy any this, I've had some leftover from last season. So I'm still on an older batch, I guess. So it'd be interesting to see what happens this time, which is, you know, very soon coming up to a point where I buy another batch and, and see what it's like.

HM: If you open up a box of these Flakes and they're rubbish as you describe them, can you not return them to the supplier?

JT: I've not had any official confirmation yet that Cadbury are doing that. They did put out a statement over at Mondelez, and because there's been an online article written by the BBC to say, you know, they are aware of an issue which says to me they've obviously either heard all the feedback that people have given them.

HM: Yeah.

JT: Or they're aware of, you know, they're not better in the quality control, and they've sent a dodgy batch out somewhere.

HM: I see their statement, too. They say that there may be a problem in circulation, in the chocolate that's in circulation, that isn't quite right. So there does seem to be an acknowledgement.

JT: I've, I've got plenty of images on my phone and stuff. It's not, maybe. There is a definite problem.

HM: You can get a good soft serve ice cream in a lot of places, but you have to be in the U.K. to get one with the little Flake stuck in it. And why is it such a British institution?

JT: Yeah, it's always been that way. I mean, obviously if you go on the website there's, there's various rumours about all the Flakes came about, you know. An Italian guy in Edinburgh sort of snapped a chocolate bar in half, and blah blah, blah. But, yeah, it is a pretty iconic institution. It's, you know, that is the top-selling ice cream. All of, all of our ice cream vans will sell, you know, a lot of I mean, obviously, where I am, I get a fair share of tourists and stuff. And they always ask me about different flavours because they're used to, you know, options and flavours and stuff. But over here, the majority of soft serve, certainly vans, are just vanilla. You know, vanilla with a Flake and a bit of raspberry sauce. And that's all you need to have done.

HM: How many cones do you eat in a week?

JT: Do I eat in a week?

HM: Yeah.

JT: [laughing] It depends if my, if my gym instructor is listening. [both laugh] Because I'm trying to, you know, I'm a bit round in the middle. But no, I have the odd one or two. I mean, obviously, I've not actually had one today, but obviously, I have a tiny, it depends, I don't have a full cone. I'll have a tiny spoonful, like a tiny little scoop because obviously, when I set the machine up and wash it, I'll clean it all out and sanitize it. The first thing I do is pull an ice cream off to make sure, you know, it's up to scratch.

HM: Sure! You have to. [chuckling]

JT: So, yeah. So, so, you know, we do taste it, you know, pretty much, I taste a bit every day, you know, just for quality control purposes. That's what it is.

HM: You tell the gym instructor that. I'm sure he believes you. [laughing]

JT: Yeah, yeah, well, it's true. Yeah, it's, you know, someone's got to test it, so, you know, make sure it's safe to eat and all that jazz.

HM: John, thank you. It's been nice to talk to you.

JT: You, too. Thank you very much.

CH: John Taylor is the owner of C&M Creamery Ices. We reached him in Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England.

[jazz]

Part 3: Montreal Monastery Fire, SETI Message

Montreal Monastery Fire

Guest: Taïka Baillargeon

CH: A piece of Quebec heritage is slowly going up in smoke. Yesterday, a fire broke out at the sprawling stone Monastère du Bon-Pasteur, which was originally built for Catholic nuns in 1846. These days it houses a seniors' residence, a housing co-op and offices. As of this afternoon, smoke was still billowing from the roof, and residents are being warned to avoid the area. Taïka Baillargeon is the assistant policy director at Heritage Montreal -- which has its offices in the building. We reached her earlier today in Montreal.

HM: Taïka, describe for us what's happening at the building today as this fire continues to burn.

TAÏKA BAILLARGEON: Well, the fires started yesterday in the early afternoon. There was a lot of smoke coming in and out of the offices and the building itself. And, and it started to go east towards the building where the chapel is, the historical chapel, and then towards the residency for the, for elderly people. But the fire continued all night. And now, it's reached also the Eastern Pavilion as well. So now it looks like the entire building is touched. A lot of architectural characteristics are already in highly damaged.

HM: How are you reacting personally to this, having, having seen and heard what's happening?

TB: It's, it's, it's very strange, chaotic and hectic right now. Emotionally, we are very sad and, and worried for our neighbours, for the people who live there because there is this residency. But there's also a cooperative, cooperative of habitation. There are condos there, there the garden, there is the chapel and there are, there are many associations, non-profit associations. They all have archives. So, it's, it's a big deal in terms of what we are all losing in there, but it's also the building itself.

HM: Tell us about this monastery and its historical significance in Montreal.

TB: Yeah, this monastery was built in the middle of the 19th century. It was a period of great demographic explosion, let's say. And the congregation, the religious congregation that used to live in it, and they were working a lot with women, doing charity work, helping women in the neighbourhood and in Montreal. So they, they have been known for their work for that. So a great historical connection with, like, social services and duty to the population.

HM: And it's not the, the only fire to hit a historic building in the city recently either.

TB: Yeah. I mean, this one is different from one, for example, that would be abandoned for a long time where it's never a surprise, really. This one was well-maintained. It was a city building. It was, it was in really great shape, the, the project for restoring it and giving it a new usage was well done. So, and it was representative. It was really a success story in terms of heritage building in Montreal, really. And so, this is sad as well for what it has become and for what it beholds in terms of memory and history. Because there's a crypt in there, there is the chapel, there is this memory of the work they did, the, the community, the religious community. And there is what it is now, what it represents now as well. And also in the skyline of Montreal, I mean, it's an, it's a, it's an architectural masterpiece that we all know and see and and see from, from far, let's say.

HM: As you mentioned, your own Heritage Montreal offices are in the building. What are you most concerned about losing?

TB: I mean, for us, of course, we've been there for 20 years, you know? So, for us, it's, it's our archives, it's our systems. Like, we've been trying to see, like, what we still have, what we have lost, what are the connections that we still can, where we can retain information. But, I mean, the archives are the things that we won't be able to replace freely. And this, this goes for all, for a lot of associations that were in that building, you know? So, it's not only us, it's, it's all of us together. So, it's a worry and all the, the memory that it holds. You know, like we've been in Montreal for almost 50 years. It's our 50-year anniversary in two years. So, it's 50 years of archives and memory that we hold in that building.

HM: Um-hmm. Now, I know you're not a firefighter, but the building --

TB: No. [chuckle]

HM: Has been burning since yesterday. So, are you hearing from anyone any indication of why it's taking so long to put the fire out?

TB: Yes, from what we hear, and it's, it's actually something that's not new to us in the heritage building field, let’s say. But it takes time because it's a, it's a complex. It's not only a building, it's a, it's a U- or H-shaped complex. The buildings are connected, but they're not, like, the electricity, for example, is not necessarily connected. So, throughout the building. So, it's long. Also, from what I heard, they can't really fully master the fire from the inside. So they have difficulty to, to go inside and get to the right places. It's not so easy. It's not like you arrive, you just put water everywhere and it stops it. It has a lot of underground holes, passages. It's, it's complicated for many reasons, yeah.

HM: Um-hmm. If the building ends up being saved and restored, will you be hoping to get your offices back in there?

TB: We don't have any clue about that yet. I mean, for us right now, we, we can't think about that. For us now, it's survival mode and like helping each other and, and also, like, reminding to the, to the citizen what it was and also helping them and going through that all together, the loss of this very important building for Montreal.

HM: It's always awful to see, you know, any kind of fire. When the history is taken with it, it's, it's even, I guess, more distressing. And, of course, all these people are displaced, too. So, thank you very much. I know it's a hard day. I appreciate your time.

TB: It's a pleasure. Thank you very much.

HM: Okay. You take care. Bye-bye.

TB: Bye.

CH: Taïka Baillargeon is assistant policy director at Heritage Montreal. We reached her earlier today in Montreal.

[bright piano]

FOA: Romeo And Juliet Lawsuit

CH: It's a story of more woe for the actors who played Romeo and Juliet in the 1968 film adaptation. A judge has tossed out a lawsuit the film's stars filed against Paramount Pictures. Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey were just 16 and 15, respectively, when they portrayed Shakespeare's starcrossed lovers on the big screen. The movie was a huge success. If you studied Romeo and Juliet in high school in the last 55 years, there's a pretty good chance you've seen it. But the actors, who are now in their 70s, say the film left them with a terrible legacy of sexual exploitation and trauma. They claim they were coerced into performing a sex scene in the nude. And that the late director Franco Zeffirelli falsely promised them that their bodies would not be shown in the final cut. Decades later, they sued, calling the scene child pornography. But in her ruling, L.A. County Judge Alison Mackenzie said the plaintiffs had failed to prove that the film, quote, "can be deemed to be sufficiently sexually suggestive as a matter of law to be held to be conclusively illegal," Unquote. In January, we spoke to Tony Marinozzi, the agent for both actors, about what happened on set all those years ago. Here's part of that interview.

SOUNDCLIP

NK: So what are your clients alleging they were told by the director?

TM: They were both told there would be no nudity. They'd be using undergarments with flesh coloured tones. And then that morning of the filming, Franco changed his mind, and told them that they would have to be nude for the scene. And, you know, of course, shocked and, you know, not understanding why, you know, at that age. You know, they were still young, you know, apprehensive and didn't want to do this. But Franco said it was necessary for the film. And the key point is that absolutely anything filmed in there would not be released on the film itself. If it was nudity, it would be slight. You know, they trusted that would be the case. And we all know by watching the film, that's not the case.

NK: When did your clients learn that they were going to appear partially nude in the version of the film that was released?

TM: They were never told. The first time that they saw the film was when it was premiered for the Queen of England. It was actually the royal family. The Queen of England saw it the same time as Olivia did.

NK: What have they told you about what that moment was like for them?

TM: You know, being youthful, you know, what do you do? What do you do at that age? You know, disappointed, betrayed, all those words, you know.

NK: Where were their parents during the filming?

TM: There was no parents involved at the filming. There was some supervision prior. But on that day of shooting, which again, was supposed to be a closed set due to the nature of, you know, the filming of it, there wasn't supervision, and there was no one that they could talk to. And that Franco had been there to persuade, which he was very persuasive, from what I hear, to follow through. And but not to worry, because none of that would escape the room. There would be no shots and no films of nudity. And it was all a controlled set. And if it did somehow, you know, it would never appear in the film. Because they asked those questions and they were concerned.

NK: Franco Zeffirelli's son, Giuseppe, has issued a statement. I just want to read part of it. He writes, “It is embarrassing to hear that today, 55 years after filming two elderly actors who owe their notoriety essentially to this film, wake Up to declare that they have suffered an abuse that has caused them years of anxiety and emotional distress.” He goes on to say that the actors had a “relationship of profound gratitude and friendship with his father.” And points out that Olivia Hussey worked with him again in 1977. How do you respond to that statement?

TM: So this is not a vendetta disparaging Franco's work or who he is. It's about a betrayal in that moment of the shooting, and then carrying it forward by Paramount. It's sad that that happened in that fashion. We all wish that those scenes didn't appear. And it would have been probably the perfect film, but it's not because of that.

CH: That was Tony Marinozzi, agent for the stars of 1968's Romeo and Juliet, talking to Nil in January. A judge has dismissed the actors' lawsuit against Paramount Pictures. Their lawyer says the fight isn't over and they will file another lawsuit -- this time, in federal court.

[instrumental]

Hay River Return

CH: Yesterday, the people of Hay River in the Northwest Territories started returning home. The town was under an evacuation order for 11 days because of a wildfire raging across the river on the Kátł'odeeche First Nation. Mike and Carrie Bueller were happy to get back and find their home unscathed. It was a close call -- and it was not their first.

SOUNDCLIP

MIKE BUELLER: We said we would take our time because we figured there'd be a big rush of people coming in. And, yeah, that didn't work out. We just packed everything up, [CB laughs] everything got thrown in, and we were gone, yeah. As fast as we could as soon as we heard it. It just seemed to happen that way, yeah. We're just happy to get back.

MARC WINKLER: Well, what was it like being away from home for all those days?

CARRIE BUELLER: Well, being the second year in a row, it kind of sucked. [chuckle] But for the most part, I totally understood why. And it was scary and also kind of heartbreaking because you know what's going on across the river.

MB: We watched it all unfold there for until about 1 in the morning when we finally did leave. It was, it was gut-wrenching.

CB: Right out of bed. Fire was basically right up to the bank of the river. We could see, like, huge plumes of smoke all the way down back toward the airport.

MB: You know, obviously, the personal stuff was already packed. We've, you know, because of last year, we, we, we did go through this. So that stuff never did get unpacked. So, you know, things like that were ready easily to load up. But it was, yeah, it was hard. It really was hard.

MW: Now you guys are in front of your house doing some yard work.

MB: Yeah. Yeah. Catching up on a little bit of that. And also, you, you start --

CB: Fire safety.

MB: Fire safety. You know, those little piles of leaves behind the garage and, you know, those little things you start paying a little closer attention to. This is just the start. I mean, summer really just started on the 21st. So, I mean.

CB: Pretty sure we'll be in the same boat again at some time, but at least getting ready for it just in case. Hopefully, it never happens. But you always got to be ready.

CH: Mike and Carrie Bueller speaking to CBC North's Marc Winkler outside their home in Hay River, Northwest Territories. The town remains under an evacuation alert, as the wildfire is still burning on the Kátł'odeeche First Nation. The fire is now being classified as "held." Which means that -- as long as current conditions last -- it's not expected to grow. Officials began inspecting the damage on the Nation yesterday, but they say it's still not safe for residents to return.

[folk]

SETI Message

Guest: Daniela de Paulis

CH: Last night we played you the sound of a star. Like… an actual star. In space. And tonight, we have something that's even outer of this world. On Wednesday, radio telescopes across the Earth picked up this message -- transmitted from Mars.

[this sounds like a bomb dropping]

CH: Ouch! Part of a message from outer space ... received on Earth on Wednesday. Now, it was transmitted from Mars. But it's probably worth mentioning it was not transmitted by Martians, but rather at the behest of Daniela de Paulis. She's an artist-in-residence with the SETI Institute, an organization devoted to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Her project is designed to mimic first contact from an alien lifeform. And she's leaving it to her audience to decipher the meaning. We reached Ms. de Paulis in Green Bank, West Virginia at the observatory there.

HM: Daniela, take us through this a bit. What exactly happened on Wednesday?

DANIELA DE PAULIS: Okay. On Wednesday, we received a simulated extraterrestrial message from a spacecraft which is orbiting Mars. It's a spacecraft of the European Space Agency. And I designed the message together with a team of international researchers. And the message was transmitted towards Earth, and it was received by three large radio antennas.

HM: So, what we just heard there was what, what's called a sonification of the message?

DDP: Yes, exactly. So the message actually lasted 30 minutes. And the sound engineer who is coordinating the various radio aspects of the project compressed this signal into 22 seconds.

HM: It's hard for me to imagine how a person might go about deciphering that. It sounded almost like a jet engine slowing down. You swear, though, that there's actually a message in there somewhere?

DDP: To me, it sounds like suddenly something falling from the sky, [thank you!] which poetically it's quite accurate in terms of what happens. We wanted to keep it really complex. We wanted to convey the complexity of a potential detection of an extraterrestrial signal and how complex it would be to eventually try to decode and interpret this type of alien message.

HM: Yeah, I understand you got some advice early on to be careful not to set off a War of the Worlds kind of panic. How is that going?

DDP: Exactly. Yes, we were advised actually by a Canadian anthropologist, she advised to, not to broadcast this as an actual extraterrestrial event because there are some risks associated with the potential reception of an extraterrestrial signal, according to these academic studies.

HM: Risks to people who might panic, that sort of thing?

DDP: Apparently, there is a risk. Yes, some people might find it extremely scary. It is both wonderful, but can also be extremely unsettling for some people. And so, it's really difficult to objectively assess the risk.

HM: So how is this going to work? How are people going to go about figuring this out?

DDP: We uploaded the data of the signal on various platforms, including the project website, which is asignin.space. And there are several ways to submit interpretations and solutions to the signal, signal decoding process.

HM: How long do you think it might take for, for someone to sort this out?

DDP: This is something we really don't know. So, we presume that it could take about two weeks, maybe a month, but it could take forever. So, we simply don't know. Personally, I hope there will always be one part of the message that would remain mysterious because I think this is what will eventually will happen if we were receiving an extraterrestrial message. I think we would not be able to fully understand the meaning or probably any meaning we would give to this message would be reflecting our anthropocentric views, and we may not grasp the, what actually another civilisation might try to communicate.

HM: Can you give us any hints?

DDP: Not really, but I, I can say that we took this process really, really seriously. It took about two years to compose this message. And that is because we at SETI had many, many ideas by a lot of people around the world who sent their own excellent ideas. But eventually, we have to really be very radical in trying to address the question of anthropocentrism. And we generally try to overcome this issue as much as possible. But, of course, it is not possible to overcome anthropocentrism. But at least we really tried during the process. And I think we are quite satisfied with the final conclusion because it really reflects this incredibly radical approach to attempting to be an extraterrestrial being.

HM: The New York Times described the project as a one part interplanetary performance and one part dress rehearsal for an event that astronomers hope will one day occur. Is that how you see it?

DDP: Yes, I think that is absolutely spot on. For me, it is both. So what I find really interesting is the involvement of the public in trying to give a meaning to this message. And I think if we were to receive an actual extraterrestrial signal, this message would belong to all of humanity. It shouldn't be something constrained, confined in a scientific institution.

HM: How convinced are you that we will actually get a message like this someday?

DDP: Well, I’m, I really hope so. I think, of course, many people, at least the people who are participating in the project, hope we will get this kind of message. So, I think it is more of a human longing than a reflection of what could potentially happen.

HM: Stephen Hawking didn't think we should mess around with stuff like this. He feared it would not end well. Do you ever think that maybe it's not a good idea to be hoping for a signal like this? [chuckling]

DDP: Well, this is actually very safe in the sense that we transmit towards Earth. So it is not a message in extraterrestrial intelligence that it is the other way around. And in this respect, this project is quite also innovative because there has been quite a long term research in trying to communicate with aliens from the perspective of humans in the hope that we will receive a reply, but this message is doing exactly the opposite. So we are imagining to be the aliens who contact Earthlings, and this is really turning the table around, which is something that I believe hasn't been done at least of the same scale as we are doing with this project.

HM: It'll be really interesting to see how much of this gets solved and how quickly. Daniela, thank you so much for telling us about it.

DDP: Thank you for having me. Thanks a lot.

HM: All right. bye

DDP: Bye.

CH: Daniela de Paulis is an artist-in-residence with the SETI Institute. She’s in Green Bank, West Virginia.

[chillhop]

FTR Billionaire Commencement Giveaway

CH: Most speakers at commencement ceremonies offer words of wisdom. And yesterday, Robert Hale did that. But he also put his money where his mouth is. Speaking to 2,500 undergraduates at the University of Massachusetts Boston, the billionaire CEO urged students to embrace failure, sharing his own story of bankruptcy on the road to success. And when the ceremony came to an end, Mr. Hale dug deep... into his wallet -- offering graduates significantly more than just aphorisms and well wishes.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT HALE: I started a business in Quincy, like literally right over there. And it went public, and I was the leader. And then, I managed to lead it into bankruptcy. [laughter] And in the process, I lost $1 billion. So, so I, honestly, I might be the, have you ever met someone who lost $1 billion before? There's a very good chance I'm the biggest loser you've ever met. And now you guys are getting career advice from me. What a great day. Honestly, there is a silver lining here, guys. As I mentioned, these are turbulent times. You guys have survived. You've prospered. You are to be celebrated. You've overcome. These trying times have heightened the need for sharing, caring and giving. Our community and our world needs you, It needs us more than ever. It needs us to be compassionate. So as I mentioned, for us, the greatest joys we've had in our life have been the gift of giving. So each of you is getting $1,000 cash. [lots of cheers and clapping] Okay, as I mentioned, you're getting $1,000. The first $500 is for you. It's a celebration of all you have done to be here today. You’re leaders. Celebrate. The second $500 is a gift for you to give to somebody or somebody else or another organization who could use it more than you. [clapping] Share in the joy of giving congratulations, beacons.

CH: For The Record, that's CEO Robert Hale speaking at the undergraduate commencement ceremony at the University of Massachusetts Boston yesterday.

[theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC. Listen app. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after the World at Six.

HM: And you can read more about the stories and conversations we feature here on As It Happens on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. I'm Helen Mann. Thanks so much for listening.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

[theme]

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May 26, 2023 Episode Transcript

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