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The AIH Transcript for March 23, 2023

Prologue

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight,

NK: Leak after leak. We speak to the former head of CSIS about the allegations that China is meddling in Canada's politics. And he wonders what is really being revealed by those secret security sources.

CH: Cross-purposes. Reports that Canada and the U.S. have struck a deal to end irregular border crossings at Quebec's Roxham Road have one law professor predicting it'll cause a boom in human smuggling.

NK: They were ticked while he talked. TikTok's boss testifies before U.S. lawmakers. One of the reporters in the room breaks down the CEO's efforts to try to save the video sharing app from a nationwide ban.

CH: Edit where edit is due. Ursula K. Le Guin's son Theo, says he had never considered changing a word in the sci-fi master's books from decades past. But a conversation with some kids convinced him a rewrite was right.

NK: Safety thirst. It started as a class science project, but a group of Grade Five students tells us what they found convinced their northern Quebec school to start testing the water in its taps.

CH: And kind of a drag. We took a terrified deep breath when a cigar shaped object started flitting around our solar system. But now we're exhaling with relief as scientists reveal it was just a harmless smoke free comet. As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio with no fear of comet- ment.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Han Dong: Elcock, TikTok: WAPO Journo, Le Guin Changes

Han Dong: Elcock

Guest: Ward Elcock

CH: The allegation is eyebrow raising, to say the least. As you've probably heard by now, Global News has reported that Toronto area MP Han Dong advised a Chinese diplomat to hold off on freeing Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor when they were in detention in China. The report cites two unnamed national security sources. The CBC has not verified that allegation. The news prompted a Han Dong to quit the Liberal caucus while denying any wrongdoing.

SOUNDCLIP

HAN DONG: I want to assure Mr. Michael Spavor and Mr. Michael Kovrig and their families that I did nothing to cause them any harm. Like everyone in this house, I worked hard and advocated for their interest as a parliamentarian. The allegations made against me are as false as the ones made against you.

CH: Now, Independent MP Han Dong, speaking in the House last night as he exited the Liberal caucus today during question period, Opposition leader Pierre Poilievre repeatedly asked the Government when it knew about the latest allegations.

SOUNDCLIP

PIERRE POILIEVRE: If the Prime Minister knew that a member of his Liberal caucus was working to keep two Canadian citizens arbitrarily and illegally incarcerated in windowless cells, potentially being tortured, he knew that and did nothing. That would be a devastating scandal against our national interest. So, I am simply asking for the government to clarify. On what date did the Prime Minister find out the revelations that one of his MPs may have helped keep our people in jail? [applause]

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister.

MELANIE JOLY: Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knew very well what was happening to the two Michaels and made sure that his government would be standing up against China in the context of their arbitrary [applause over words] will never accept any form of premise that this government and Canadians didn't work enough to bring them back home. It was our priority and you can be convinced that it will always be our priority when it comes to any form of consular cases or any form of arbitrary detained Canadians in this world.

CH: Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly responding to Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre. Ward Elcock is the former head of CSIS. We reached him in Ottawa.

NK: Ward, what should Canadians believe here?

WARD ELCOCK: Well, at this point, it's all allegations. So, frankly, there's no certainty in the information at this point. Hard to know what to believe.

NK: Where might these sources who spoke to Global News have gotten their information?

WE: That's hard to know. There doesn't seem to be an allegation that it came from a specific document or a specific report. It may be something that's been passed by word of mouth. It may be rumour. For all that, it may actually not be true.

NK: Would something like that normally be communicated to the government ahead of time?

WE: It depends a lot on how the information was derived. If the information is derived from very sensitive sources, then it's hard to move the information up the chain. If it was officially sensitive, that would make the ability to use the information and to pass it up pretty limited.

NK: We heard a bit of Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre there in question period. He asked that same question or a version of it five times. So, why wouldn't Minister Joly or the Prime Minister's office or the government, someone representing the government, Why wouldn't they say if they didn't know, that they don't know?

WE: If you don't know, then the next question is why don't you know? And you should have known. The problem they always have is if it's information from very sensitive sources, then they can never really acknowledge that they had it or because you start to reveal how you actually got it. For example, if it was from a very sensitive technical source, you talk enough about how you got it or what information you had and you start to identify where that information might have been obtained from, and then you start to identify for the opposition, in this case the Chinese, how the information was obtained.

NK: As you've been watching this all unfold, not just these latest reports, but there were also reports in the Globe and Mail of alleged interference as well. You know, as former CSIS director, what are you thinking as you're seeing, you know, unnamed sources? These are security sources coming forward. What have you made of all of this?

WE: Well, at the end of the day, I think the suggestion that there's a whistleblower there is just patent nonsense.

NK: What do you mean?

WE: Well, in a sense that you're a whistleblower, if you are actually revealing that some attempt to do something wrong took place. For example, if you're a CSIS officer and a minister asked you to do something that's illegal and improper. You are a whistleblower. If you reveal the fact that you've been asked to do something unacceptable or illegal, if you just don't happen to like government policy, that's not a whistleblower, that somebody doesn't like government policy. It doesn't make you a legitimate whistleblower. And frankly, I hope ultimately, whoever it is, they're arrested and prosecuted.

NK: Why do you think they would risk prosecution or potentially losing their jobs if they didn't believe that there was something troubling going on?

WE: That's the 64-million-dollar question. And to some extent, we won't know the answer until the individual's revealed. I mean, if you read the letter written by the, allegedly written by the leaker, although it's, it doesn't display a great depth of thought, frankly. So, it's possible that somebody really just didn't think about what they were doing enough or wasn't capable of thinking about it enough. It's also possible that the individual has a political motivation. That's, it wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

NK: Are you talking about the opinion piece in the Globe and Mail?

WE: Yeah, the opinion piece, which is allegedly from the leaker.

NK: In part of that in the Globe and Mail opinion piece where the name is kept confidential, they write, "let me be clear, as troubling as the revelations we have seen are, I do not believe foreign interference dictated the present composition of our federal government, nor do I believe that any of our elected leaders is a traitor to our country. Nonetheless, the growing impact of foreign interference on our ability to enjoy a free and fair political process is undeniable". Throughout this letter, they say that they saw these concerns within government and within these agencies that there is not enough attention being paid to these issues, and they're growing and growing and growing. Is that not a legitimate concern in your view?

WE: I don't think it makes you a legitimate whistleblower. If you really believe that then it's time for you to leave government and go and do something else and get that issue publicized and stand on the other side of, go join the Conservatives and on the other side and say more needs to be done, but start to leak the information is to damage people's reputations. In some cases, it may be fairly, but in some cases the facts may not be accurate, and it will be very hard for those people to ever get any closure on the information that's been revealed. And if it's false, their reputations will be damaged forever for no purpose.

NK: I want to talk about Han Dong a little bit more while you bring up that point. He says that he wants this to be investigated. We're going to play a little bit more for you as well, for our listeners of what Han Dong said in the house last night as he announced he was leaving the liberal caucus.

SOUNDCLIP

HAN DONG: To my family and in particular my parents who brought us here to Canada. To my wife, Sophie, and my kids. I love you. I thank you for all the support and love you give me. The truth will protect us, our [inaudible] and our family. We'll get through this together.

NK: Clearly very, a very emotional moment for Han Dong there. How likely is it that we will get more information and clear answers?

WE: That that'll depend ultimately on how sensitive the information is that gave rise to this issue. If it's very sensitive information, and it comes from a very sensitive source, then it will be very hard for much of it ever to be made public.

NK: What did you think as you heard him speak and become so emotional?

WE: Unfortunately, what people say is not always the truth. So, certainly he was very emotional and it is hard not to believe his version of events, but without knowing exactly what actually happened, without having access to the conversation or the actual reports of the conversation, it's hard to know where the truth lies at this point.

NK: Ward, Thank you.

WE: Okay. Thank you very much.

CH: Ward Elcock is the former director of Canada spy agency CSIS. He was in Ottawa.

[Music: dark techno]

TikTok: WAPO Journo

Guest: Will Oremus

CH: When Republican Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers opened a hearing about TikTok today, she immediately set the tone for the five hour plus grilling to follow. She called for the short form video app to be banned and said, quote, "from the data it collects to the content it controls. TikTok is a grave threat, a foreign influence in American lives", unquote. It was the first time TikTok CEO Shou Chew testified in Washington. As concerns intensify over the social media company's ties to the Chinese government through its parent company, Bytedance, which is headquartered in Beijing. Lawmakers asked him about that today and about the threat TikTok poses to the health and safety of young people. And there was this exchange about the protection of U.S. user data.

SOUNDCLIP

SHOU CHEW: As I said in the opening statement, our plan is to move American data to be stored on American soil... [interrupted]

ANNA ESHOO: I understand that. I understand that. But you're sidestepping or I haven't read anything in terms of TikTok, how you can actually say, and you spoke in your opening statement about a firewall relative to the data. But the Chinese government has that data. How can you promise that that will move into the United States of America and be protected here?

SHOU CHEW: Congresswoman, I have seen no evidence that the Chinese government has access to that data. They have never asked us. We have not provided... [interrupted]

ANNA ESHOO: Well, you know what I find that, I find that actually preposterous. [cross talk]

SHOU CHEW: I have looked, and I have seen no evidence of this happening. And in order to assure everybody here and all our users, our commitment is to move that data into the United States, to be stored on American soil by an American company overseen by American personnel. So, the risk will be similar to any government going to an American company asking for data.

CH: Democratic Representative Anna Eshoo questioning TikTok CEO Shou Chew. And in another committee hearing today, Secretary of State Antony Blinken was questioned about the app and he said he believes TikTok poses a security threat to the United States. Will Oremus has been covering the story for The Washington Post. He was in the room today as CEO Shou Chew testified. We reached Mr. Oremus in D.C.

NK: Will, does that exchange illustrate what the day was like from your vantage point?

WILL OREMUS: Yes, except that they actually allowed him to finish his answer, which was a little different from a lot of the questions.

NK: Was he able to get a, barely able to get a word in edgewise?

WO: Yeah. There were times when some of the representatives seemed more interested in getting their points across than actually hearing from the TikTok CEO. But when they did hear from them, they were pretty uniformly not impressed.

NK: In his opening statement Shou Chew said, TikTok is prioritizing the safety of teenagers, he said. Bytedance is not owned or controlled by the Chinese government and that the app will, quote, "remain a place for free expression and will not be manipulated by any government". Do you think he was actually successful at convincing lawmakers of that?

WO: It didn't seem like it. No. It seemed like most of the lawmakers had their minds fairly made up coming in that the laws in China and the actions of the Chinese government basically make it impossible to trust a Chinese owned company with the data of American users.

NK: Beyond what we've talked about already. What are, what were some of the takeaways for you?

WO: Shou Chew was soft spoken. He kept his calm. He tried to address the lawmakers’ questions without showing frustration, even though they kept cutting him off. But I got the sense that some lawmakers wanted a more forceful assurance from him, something more persuasive that they can really trust him or that he's taking responsibility. That said, I don't know that there's anything he could have said today that would have changed their minds. They see Chinese ownership of TikTok's parent company, Bytedance, as a problem, maybe as a problem that can only be solved by either banning TikTok or by forcing the sale of TikTok to an American company.

NK: Will, did you hear any new details or concrete information, additional safety assurances today?

WO: There was a lot of talk of what's called Project Texas, and this is the project is underway whereby TikTok is trying to soothe the concerns of American lawmakers by moving all the data of U.S. users it literally, physically into the United States, it will be stored on servers in the United States and that would provide the kind of firewall that lawmakers want to see between the data and the Chinese Communist Party. Some of the lawmakers felt that there were, that that would be technically impossible, but there were also some concerns raised that seemed a little dubious. I mean, one of the one of the lawmakers at one point raised the concern, well, couldn't a rogue employee, you know, even in the U.S. data centre, take some of that data and give it to the Chinese government? And he said, well, that's, you know, that could happen to literally any company in the United States. In fact, you know, I would add that we've been, we've actually seen that happen with some tech companies where rogue employees have used their data to spy for foreign governments. And that you don't have to be a Chinese owned company for that to happen.

NK: Democrat Jamaal Bowman is an outlier right now. You know, he's defending TikTok, he said yesterday. TikTok is the bogeyman. It's just part of fear mongering that is happening right now, that he hasn't seen any hard evidence that TikTok is committing some form of espionage and that this is all speculation. You know what is what he said, how does it fit in with what we heard today?

WO: The voices defending TikTok at this moment are pretty lonely in Congress. It's the time when members of Congress want to show that they are tough on China. They also want to show that they are tough on big tech and protecting kids. And TikTok allows them to show all of those things at once. So, it's very popular for lawmakers right now to be loudly critical of TikTok. But I do think, you know, you heard from some lawmakers at the hearing today that they recognize that a lot of the issues we're concerned about with TikTok, with data privacy and such with addictive algorithms. For getting young people hooked on their phones. Those are not unique to TikTok. They're common to other U.S. tech platforms. It's worth noting that the House committee that held today's hearing actually advance a bill last year, a bipartisan, comprehensive online privacy bill. That was the first time such a bill has ever advanced out of committee in U.S. Congress. Now, it didn't get passed into law, but we heard from several of them today that they are still hoping to pass something that would address the wider issues and not just TikTok.

NK: It's such a big part of so many people's lives this platform, as you know, you know, some people use it for fun, to relax or, you know, even promote their business or their work. So, what's the takeaway do you think that listeners, the general public, should take away from what you heard today as they click on that app?

WO: Well, you know, I think that the lawmakers are very well briefed on, at least a lot of them, are very well briefed on the concerns with Chinese, potential Chinese government access to data. Again, TikTok denies that those concerns are valid. They are much less well briefed on what, how TikTok actually works. I mean, very few of them are even on TIkTok. It's not, there wasn't much talk about what the substance of TikTok is about, what kind of a cultural force it is. There was, you know, one congressman who said that it's purveying a divisive, woke or pro-Chinese propaganda, you know, to Americans. I think that anybody who uses TikTok regularly would probably, you know, probably have a sense that that's not really most of what TikTok is about. So, I do think there's a disconnect in terms of how the lawmakers perceive TikTok and how the tens of millions of users, hundreds of millions of users who use it every day perceive TikTok.

NK: So, is this a missed opportunity?

WO: It remains to be seen. There is legislation in the Senate that would target Chinese companies particularly, and the concerns about data security. There is also, you know, somewhere in the works more comprehensive privacy legislation. But there hasn't been an ability to get bi partisan agreement and pass that into law yet. You know, it's a long process. It seems like the TikTok part, the China part is moving a lot faster right now than the more comprehensive online privacy issues that plague the entire consumer Internet sector.

NK: Will, thanks for your time.

WO: Thank you.

CH: Will Oremus is a reporter with The Washington Post.

[Music: electronic]

Le Guin Changes

Guest: Theo Downes Le Guin

CH: Earlier this year, the company that publishes the late Roald Dahl announced changes to some of his beloved children's books, including describing the Oompa-Loompas in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" as "small people" instead of "small men", and removing adjectives like "fat" and "ugly" from all his books. But after a furor, the publisher announced it would release new, fancy, un-changed editions alongside the rewritten ones. Which may, if we're being cynical, have been the plan all along. Now, meanwhile, the estate of another renowned writer was facing a somewhat similar issue. Ursula K. Le Guin was a brilliant pioneering writer of science fiction and fantasy publishing, works for children, young adults and older readers. But the books she wrote in the 1960s and '70s include words that have totally different meanings now. Theo Downes Le Guin is Ursula's son and her literary executor. He recently wrote about his decision to make some changes to her work. We reached him in Portland, Oregon.

NK: Theo, what words won't readers see in these new editions of your mother's books?

THEO DOWNES LE GUIN: The four words that they won't see are lame, queer, dumb and stupid.

NK: If we go back for a moment when you were first approached, when the publisher approached you about changing those words, what was your first reaction?

TDLG: It was disconcerting. I've never entertained that request before from a publisher. I wasn't expecting it and I was pretty upset for a couple of days. My role as executor is typically to keep the fidelity of my mother's words, not to contemplate changes. So, I didn't know what to think. And after a few days of brooding, I kind of got some distance from the question and started to think more objectively about it.

NK: So ultimately, what did make you change your mind?

TDLG: Part of it was definitely time, just being able to think on it more. And during those few days before I got back to the publisher, I talked to a collection of people that I knew personally or connected to through friends and professional acquaintances who I felt would know more about the issue and how to approach it than I would. And also, a couple of kids. And that advice definitely helped me look at the question in different ways and help me reach my decision. And the deciding factor was a note that my mother kept above her writing desk, which is still taped up there. That said, "is it true? Is it necessary or at least useful? Is it compassionate or at least un-harmful?". And thinking particularly about the last part of that phrase helped me cast the decision in a very specific light, which is could I keep the intent of these texts without introducing the possibility of unnecessary harm for readers?

NK: And the kids you spoke with? What did they say to you that got you thinking?

TDLG: What I was really interested in with kids was their take on these specific words and connotations that they saw in these words, because that would help me determine whether, for example, the word lame has any practical meaning of being simply injured left in daily usage. And what I concluded from that is that particularly with the words lame and queer, that the usage or the intent that my mother had when she wrote those words in the common usage at that time is essentially lost. Those words have a different meaning now. That meaning has nothing to do with what Ursula intended in the text. And in addition to the question of, could it be hurtful for some readers, there's also the question of does that even make sense?

NK: So, what will the replacement words be?

TDLG: Depends a little bit on context, because some of the words were used more than once across the texts. And I used different substitutes because both the publisher and I were looking for words that would keep the original meaning. But also, I was very interested in words that would scan well and keep some of the poetry of the text, if you will. So, "dumb" and "stupid" are in different places, change to "useless" or "not very smart". "Lame", in one case it's changed to "stiff", in another case is changed to "hurt" and "queer" was changed to "peculiar".

NK: I'm sure you've thought about the questions and concerns about, you know, whether this is censorship. How did you navigate that as you were making your decision?

TDLG: It's interesting. I didn't really ever entertain the idea that this was censorship, until I started reading articles about reactions to the changes to Roald Dahl's books later, and that was one of the words that is used a lot. I mean, to me, censorship is suppression of words by institutions for political reasons and political ends. And I don't see this as, first of all, I don't see myself as an institution and I don't see my motivations in making these changes as political. I think that words change in meaning over time and new meanings can cause unnecessary confusion or harm that have nothing to do with the original intent of the writer. And to me, that's a very different issue from censorship. I also feel that at this moment, when there are many examples of outright systematic, systemic, institutionally driven censorship and book banning in North America and elsewhere in the world, that it's, I think it's the wrong emphasis to look at these kinds of editorial changes and describe that as censorship.

NK: How would you say that your decision compares to Roald Dahl, you brought up and we've spoken about it on this program before. How does your decision compare to that case?

TDLG: I'm the son of the writer. My understanding is that most of the rights for Dahl's works are controlled by a corporation. I think it matters who's making those changes. Corporations are institutions and large numbers of changes in a text by a corporation or an institution may tilt toward censorship as opposed to editorial decisions.

NK: Do you think, though, that this decision that you that you've made, do you think it takes away the opportunity for parents and their children to have conversations about certain words and their meanings or how, you know, language evolves over time, or do you hope it spurs on conversations?

TDLG: Well, to the extent that I think I was able to keep the meaning of the original text, I don't think it takes away that opportunity. I think when my mother wrote "queer" in these books, she meant "queer" in the sense of strange or peculiar. There are other books and other places where a parent can have a conversation with a child about what queer means now. But these are not those books.

NK: For people who haven't read your mother's writing. How would you describe the themes she wrote about?

TDLG: She wrote quite a lot, both fiction and non-fiction and poetry. But I think the themes that she's best known for are thinking about sex and gender and the intersection with power and pacifism and alternatives to conflict as the central narrative and capitalism and alternatives to capitalism.

NK: Theo, thank you.

TDLG: My pleasure.

CH: Theo Downes Le Guin is the son and literary executor of the late author Ursula K. Le Guin.

[Music: strumming guitar]

Part 2: Biden Visit: Roxham Road, World Athletics On Trans Women, Cree Student Water Project, FOA: Cigarette Shaped Space Thing

Biden Visit: Roxham Road

Guest: Audrey Macklin

CH: Someone's just come over the border with a plan to stop people from coming over the border. U.S. President Joe Biden arrived in Canada this evening for a two day visit and he appears to have brought with him a surprise deal regarding Roxham Road, which previously seemed like an insurmountable challenge. The deal would allow 15,000 migrants from the Western Hemisphere to apply to enter the country legally. 40,000 asylum seekers made the irregular crossing at the U.S./Canada border at Roxham Road last year, and the unofficial entry point has been a fixation of opposition parties and the Quebec government in particular. Audrey Macklin is a law professor and the Chair in Human Rights Law at the University of Toronto. We reached her in Toronto.

NK: Audrey, this deal, I wanted to get your take. Is it going to solve the issue of irregular crossings at Roxham Road?

AUDREY MACKLIN: No, it's not going to solve the problem of irregular crossings. If you want to solve the problem of irregular crossings, that is, encourage people to enter Canada in a regular, orderly way. You would just let them enter at a port of entry. Instead, what this does is really create incentives for people to try to enter surreptitiously or clandestinely. In other words, it's a job creation program for smugglers.

NK: CBC News is now reporting some more details about this deal and a detail in particular initially reported by The L.A. Times, that there will be 15,000 spots, specifically for people from the Western Hemisphere who will be able to apply to enter the country legally. What do you make of that detail, Audrey?

AM: It doesn't tell me enough to know what to make of it. Are we talking about people who are refugees or are we talking about people who are entering on the basis of economic criteria, family relationship, kinship without further information, it's really not possible to draw any inferences or conclusions?

NK: How would you like to see this crisis addressed than if you were at the table with U.S. President Biden and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau? What would be your advice to them in addressing, to address this problem?

AM: If the concern is genuinely that we want people to enter respective countries lawfully in an orderly and regular fashion, then we would allow asylum seekers to approach a port of entry and ask for refugee protection. That way they would be known to us, they would be documented, and it would be orderly. What we have done through the Safe Third Country agreement is block off those avenues of entry and divert people into irregular entry currently Roxham Road. But if that's going to be shut down, that is, you know, people are not going to be able to, as it were, entered in broad daylight, then I think we have reason to fear that they, if they're desperate, they will resort to desperate means and that might include smugglers. And that, in turn, creates a much greater problem than any problem that we're trying to solve here. It means that Canada or the United States won't know who's entering and that people will be entering in dangerous, potentially exploitative and harmful ways.

NK: Surely, they have people advising them of similar concerns as the ones you've expressed both in columns that you've written and here during our conversation. Why do you think they're ignoring the possibilities that you've outlined then, if this is, in fact, the shape that this deal is going to take?

AM: Well, if they wanted to prevent irregular entry, this is what they would do. If what they really want to do is stop asylum seekers from being able to seek protection in Canada, then I suppose the rationale, or the thinking might be different. It might be this that if we make it more dangerous, hazardous, potentially lethal and expensive for asylum seekers to reach places where they might be able to obtain protection, maybe fewer of them will do it. I'm not sure that's true, but if you know, that might be one explanation. They just want fewer asylum seekers. It's not really about orderly entry. It's about stopping people from seeking refugee protection. But, you know, one problem with that is that Canada actually receives far fewer asylum seekers, both in absolute and relative terms than other countries of the world. And that has a lot to do with, frankly, just geographic isolation. So, I can't explain it. I mean, if you wanted to try to make it impossible for people to cross the border between Canada and the United States, I don't know how U.S. and Canada propose to actually implement that. So, are we talking about putting sentries across the full length of the six thousand kilometre border? Are we talking about militarizing the border? How in fact do the two countries anticipate that they're going to implement this? If people cross the border, let's say, through the assistance or otherwise of a smuggler and they are inside the country? What then? How would one know whether they crossed irregularly or not?

NK: Where do you think people will divert to instead?

AM: I think they will divert to places that are more hazardous where they think they are less likely to be detected. Places that were going to pose a greater risk to their safety. We know from, you know, what we have heard anecdotally about people freezing to death, trying to cross the border. People losing digits and limbs trying to cross the border. If there was no Safe Third Country agreement, those people could just arrive at a regular port of entry, ask for refugee protection, be documented, entered, subject to a determination process that would figure out whether they meet the refugee definition or not. The alternative here is not that if you make it, if you extend the Safe Third Country agreement across the full length of the border, people will stop trying to enter. That's absolutely not an outcome that is likely.

NK: You know, you described the influx as very small compared to other countries. What we're seeing come to, the folks we're seeing to come through Canada. I think you used the word trickle in your piece for the Toronto Star. We've spoken to people on Roxham Road, one woman in particular. And for them, you know, it's taken over their road, their neighbourhood. It's changed their lives in a lot of ways. So, what would you say to people there who've been pushing for change?

AM: It, I'm not diminishing that it's, you know, congested and frustrating for people who might live around there. I think at present, something like one in four, one in five people who are living in Lebanon are Syrian refugees. 85% of the world's refugee population are located in the global south in countries that are having a hard time on their own. So, I don't want to diminish the issues that people are raising, but I think a bit of perspective is useful. But, you know, bear in mind by way of comparison, that we have been able to admit over 160,000 Ukrainians precisely because we have adopted a different approach to them. We have facilitated and enabled the regular movement through issuing long term visas for them. So, we can do this differently.

NK: Audrey, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

AM: Thank you.

CH: Audrey Macklin is a law professor and the chair in Human Rights Law at the University of Toronto.

[Music: piano]

World Athletics On Trans Women

CH: Last June, World Aquatics made the decision to bar athletes who have transitioned from male to female from competing in elite swimming events. And this afternoon, World Athletics President Sebastian Coe announced his federation would follow suit. Beginning on March 31st, transgender women who've gone through male puberty will be banned from competing in world ranking women's track and field events. The council also voted to cut the maximum amount of plasma testosterone for athletes with differences in sex development in half, which will have an impact on two time Olympic 800 metre champion Caster Semenya. In order to compete at next year's Olympics, she'll have to undergo hormone suppressing treatment for six months. Here's Sebastian Coe.

SOUNDCLIP

SEBASTIAN COE: The World Athletics Council has today taken the decisive action to protect the female category. The decision was taken in consultation with a number of stakeholders, including 40 member federations. Our coaches, our athletes and through the Athletes Commission, as well as a range of other community groups, including trans groups, U.N. experts, the International Olympic Committee and Para Athletics. The majority of those consulted stated that transgender athletes should not be competing in the female category. Many believe there is insufficient evidence that trans women do not retain advantage over biological women and more evidence that any physical advantages have been ameliorated before they are willing to consider an option for inclusion into the female category. We cannot in all conscience leave our transgender regulations as they were when we were unsure about the impact of doing so across all our disciplines. We want to give the DSD athletes who are already competing in our sport, i.e., in the unrestricted events, all those outside of 400 to 1 mile, the opportunity to resume competition. But our scientific advice is that six months is the minimum period necessary to ensure their naturally high testosterone levels are no longer giving them an advantage over biological women. DSD athletes who have been competing in the unrestricted events can apply to benefit from a reduced six month period to maintain testosterone levels under 2.5 nanomoles per litre, provided they apply and suppress their testosterone level to 2.5 nanomoles per litre before 1 July of this year 2023. So, none of these athletes will be eligible to compete in the World Athletics Championships in Budapest in August.

CH: That was World Athletics President Sebastian Coe speaking at the World Athletics Council press conference this afternoon.

[Music: calm techno]

Student Water Project

Guests: Dominique Roy, Angel MacLeod, Lennox Swallow

CH: Maybe you've got one of those water filtration jugs in your fridge, which, if you're like me, is usually empty because you've forgotten to fill it. So, you drink directly out of the tap anyway. Well, a group of Grade Five students in Mistissini, Quebec, wanted to look at how water was filtered at their school. For a class science project, they looked at the effects of traditional and modern forms of filtration, including moss and cotton, on the quality of water at their elementary school. And based on their scientific findings, they had some suggestions. This week, two of the four students involved travelled to Quebec City for the provincial finals of the Quebec Indigenous Science Fair. Dominique Roy teaches grade five at Mistissini Voyageur Memorial Elementary School. Angel MacLeod and Lennox Swallow are her students. We reached them at the provincial Science Fair in Quebec City.

NK: Angel, I know you're all waiting for the decision from the judging committee. How are you feeling?

ANGEL MACLEOD: Nervous.

NK: Yeah. Well, what I saw, I saw from your project. It seemed pretty thorough and much better than any science project I ever did. I'll tell you that. Well, Lennox, let me ask you. What was it like to present all of your hard work to the people who are coming by?

LENNOX SWALLOW: It was nervous and exciting.

NK: Yeah. It's cool to go on a trip, too, right?

LS: Yeah. It is exciting to come here.

NK: And Angel, did you, how did you both split up, you know, did you have speeches? How did you, how did you share your results and your research?

AML: We did one by one with each, like Lennox would do some and I would do some.

NK: Yeah. And Dominique, let me bring you in. What was the question that the students were setting out to answer here?

DOMINIQUE ROY: They asked two questions. So, they asked whether the water in the school and in the lake was safe to drink without a filter. And then our biggest question was which filters were the most efficient financially and environmentally? And they ended up testing four filters.

NK: And Lennox, why did you want to test the water in your school?

LS: Well, we tested the, the reason why we wanted to test water to make sure that the water was safe to drink. And in the fountains, in the fountains, in our classroom sink and in the bathrooms.

NK: And how did you test it?

LS: We tested it with the water testers. First, we had to test it with no filtration and then after different kind of filters.

NK: And what did you find at the end of all your tests?

LS: We found out that moss was the most efficient and Brita's the second most efficient.

NK: Which one is the most efficient?

LS: Moss.

NK: Moss. You know what? You had some help as well. Not just your teachers. So, I do want to give a shout out to your other team-mates who couldn't go to the science fair with you, that's Serena Shecapio and Lucas Trapper. And Dominique, just tell me, just fill us in a little bit more about what the tests revealed.

DR: Well, they tested the lake water in Mistissini lake. And it is amazing, as we always say, that we have such good water in Mistissini. And then we tested around the school and I mean, it's a kid’s project, so it just showed that it wasn't quite as clear as straight from the lake.

NK: And since the project was completed, I understand the school is actually going to run its own tests. What was your reaction to that decision?

DR: I haven't heard officially if that's happening. I know that there's potential of it, so it's really neat when we are able to show our students that something, a science project or a science, something we learn from science always goes beyond that one moment in time. So, that's pretty neat.

NK: Yeah, it's having an impact to already, science in action. Lennox, what did you like most about science and working on this project?

LS: Meeting new people and working on the project?

NK: Angel What about you? What do you like about science and working on a project like this?

AML: About making new people and friends and meeting my cousins over here.

NK: Oh, yeah. Did you know they were going to be there? Was it a surprise?

AML: It was a surprise.

NK: Nice, what does your mom think about your project and how well you are doing?

AML: She was proud.

NK: Yeah, how did that feel?

AML: It feel, it Makes me feel happy.

NK: How did everybody come up with their ideas, Dominique?

DR: It was actually our student teacher Destiny, in November. She's Cree, and we were trying to find a science project that could be related to indigenous culture and tradition. And she's the one that had said, oh, you know, before we used to use moss to filter the water. And I said, oh, wow, that's super interesting, you know, I'm not Cree. And from there we developed, we decided to compare different methods of filtering, and it just kind of spiralled from there with the kids' help.

NK: And just if folks didn't hear it earlier, moss was the number one filter of the four they tested.

DR: Yeah. Based on the criteria of it being the most efficient, financially and environmentally friendly.

NK: And Dominique, what is it like for you? You know, what's the most exciting part for you watching them not only do this project but succeed?

DR: For myself and Charlotte, the French teacher that have been guiding these students to do this. The most exciting part is to see them get so involved in something academic, because sometimes that can be a struggle to find something that kids are interested in and then to get them involved into something that's new. And there's such a high importance on sports, sports competition, and then to find an academic competition and have them so motivated and persevere and, you know, push themselves. They've really had to work hard, at times they've wanted to quit, but they kept going. They've been so perseverant, and they've worked so hard. They've had three rounds of this. And yeah, I think we're relieved they're done, but we're also so proud.

NK: So, as we said, you know, the judging is happening now. Are there prizes at the end of this or, you know, trophies?

DR: Yes, there will be prizes, financially as well as awards.

NK: Whatever happens at the end of today. What do you hope for your students beyond this project, The ones that are with you, but also the ones back in the classroom?

DR: Well, I think the whole rest of the class, having watched these guys, they're so much more interested in science and a lot of them have already come to me and said, oh, next year I want to do science fair. Whereas originally, when I first told them about it, you know, it was a struggle to just get a few of them. And then even as the project progressed, then some said, oh, can I join? Can I join? And then for sure, next year I think I'm going to have more, so. So, it's very, that's probably the best part. That is what this is all about, is getting kids interested in science.

NK: Angel, Lennox, are you going to do another science project next year? Are you going to stick with science, you think?

AML: Yeah. We're already thinking of one.

NK: Oh, you already have a new idea. Can you tell me what it is yet? Or is it a secret right now?

BOTH: No, it's a secret.

NK: Okay, that's a pro-move I like, I like where you're going with this. It's important to incubate it for a while. Okay, well, maybe we'll talk to you all again. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. And good luck.

ALL: Thank you. Have a nice day.

NK: You too.

CH: Dominique Roy teaches Grade Five at Mistissini Voyager Memorial Elementary School in Quebec. Angel MacLeod and Lennox Swallow are her students.

[Music: blues guitar]

FOA: Cigarette Shaped Space Thing

CH: For years now, scientists have been watching a strange object floating oddly around in space. Some say it looks like a pancake. Others a cigar. The consensus at "As It Happens" today, is that it looks like a different kind of rollable smokable object. But you can ignore our joint recommendations. The point is that since 2017, scientists have been trying to figure out the comet called Oumuamua, which is also the first interstellar object found visiting our solar system. And they have been bickering about what exactly it is. Now a new study offers a simple explanation. It's a comet which moves in an unusual way because there's a tiny amount of hydrogen gas trapped inside. In 2018, our former host Carol Off, spoke to Abraham Loeb, the astronomy chair at the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics, about Oumuamua. He had published a study about why it moved more like something else. An alien probe.

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ABRAHAM LOEB: It's a possibility. And the reason I said that is evidence based. I approached this subject in purely scientific, an evidence based format. I follow the maxim of Sherlock Holmes "when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains. However improbable, must be the truth". So, that's the approach I take. This object is the very first interstellar object to have been discovered in the solar system to originate from outside the solar system. And it's very weird. It's nothing that we have seen before. It seems to have an extreme shape based on the reflectance of the sunlight. It has very strange dimensions that it is at least 5 to 10 times longer than it is wide. It moves on a very peculiar orbit that deviates from what we would expect based on the sun's gravity.

CAROL OFF: So, all very strange, but it's another step to go and say that Oumuamua is something artificial. It appears to your eye to possibly be something that was manufactured and not something naturally occurring. Is that right?

AL: Yes. And the reason for that is that there is something pushing it. In addition to gravity, gravity from the sun and the possibility that we are suggesting is that it's sunlight, the radiation from the sun is giving it a push. And in order for that to be effective, it needs to be very thin. This object needs to be less than a millimetre thick, and you just cannot imagine a rock having that thickness. However, a sail that is pushed by light would actually operate exactly this way. And we are currently developing the technology of light sails for propulsion in space. It has the great benefit that you don't have to carry the fuel with you. You are being pushed by light just like a sailboat is being pushed by the wind.

CH: That was Carol speaking with Abraham Loeb, the astronomy chair at the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics. In a new study, researchers at the University of California theorized that Oumuamua is a comet with hydrogen gas trapped inside.

[Music: techno]

Part 3: Afghanistan Student Scholarship, Canada Reads - Michael Christie, FOA: Last Blockbuster, Blind Hockey Tourney, Asteroid Sample Study, Canada Reads - Silvia Moreno-Garcia, Camaro Retired

Afghanistan Student Scholarship

CH: Before the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan, Umulbanin Arjmand was thriving in a high school that empowered girls and young women. While she was there, she defied patriarchal expectations by practicing martial arts and kicking some serious butt. But under the new regime, that made her a target. So, when the Taliban invaded, she fled to Canada with her family. And now she's back on track, finishing high school at Nutana Collegiate in Saskatoon, after which the sky is the limit because Umulbanin Arjmand has won a one hundred-thousand-dollar Loran Scholarship. It comes with free tuition to a Canadian university, summer work opportunities and an annual stipend for four years. She beat out some five thousand other students to get it. During her lunch break outside school today. She explained what the scholarship means for her.

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UMULBANIN ARJMAND: Without the scholarship, the challenge would be, first of all, my family, then also financial problems. I just, I just came to Canada last year and that's like, it's new life for me and I'm still, my family and me are still trying to adjust to this new life and trying to figure out how things are going to work. And at this time, I need to go to university. So, that's going to be like a huge step for me. So, my family, myself, financial things is like, got, without the scholarship would be so hard for me. And also, I have my family all around the world and like the emotions of like, that is also huge. Yesterday was the day that new school start, new school year in Afghanistan is started and women are not allowed to go to university or high school. Why? They are not able to do what they want in society as a woman. They cannot go outside. They cannot be happy. They cannot celebrate New Year's like, it's life in prison. I feel like that. It's like darkness. I want them to be free. I want them to have education the same as I do. I want them to have peace in country. It's not just women, it's also men. It's also kids. Like nobody's talking about them but kids. In age of nine, they were going outside to work and to feed family like family of five, four, nine years old kid. Is that fair? And like, that's my hope. Some, one day it gets better and one day we could have freedom in our country and peace.

CH: That was Umulbanin Arjmand, winner of the prestigious Loran Scholarship, speaking to CBC Saskatchewan's Bonnie Allen.

[Music: piano]

Canada Reads - Michael Christie

CH: For more than a century, the Greenwood family has had roots on an island near Vancouver, thick with Douglas firs. Jacinda Greenwood, who goes by Jake, doesn't realize just how powerful those roots, metaphorical and literal truly are. But readers of the novel "Greenwood" soon find out about the deep connections between the family and the forest. The book spans four generations. It begins with Jake, an eco-guide in a world suffering from a climate catastrophe and makes its way backwards to the Great Depression. The novel is one of the contenders in this year's Canada Reads competition, which begins next week. Here's author Michael Christie with a reading from "Greenwood".

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MICHAEL CHRISTIE: Wood is time captured, a map, a cellular memory, a record. This is why Liam believes carpenters like himself will never go out of business because people will always keep wood close. In our houses and on our floors, ceilings and walls, in our trusted canes and our finest musical instruments. In our heirloom tables and old rocking chairs. And most tellingly, in the very capsules that ease our journey into the ground. When carpenters call a piece of wood clear, they mean it is free of knots and wanes and blemishes. And during his many years of fussing over wood, cutting it to exact lengths and lovingly fitting it together just right, all before buffing it to a soul warming shine. Liam Greenwood has often thought that people like clear would best because they need to see time stacked together. Here is pressed against years, all orderly and clean, free from obstruction or blemish, the way our own lives never are.

CH: That was Michael Christie reading from his novel "Greenwood". Keegan Connor Tracy will champion "Greenwood" next week in the 2023 edition of Canada Reads. The annual book debate begins on the CBC on Monday. And coming up a little later, we'll tell you more about another of the books in the competition.

[Music: Techno beats]

FOA: Last Blockbuster

CH: You wouldn't think people would be nostalgic for inconvenience or for having to rent a movie you have no intention of watching because everything else is out. And yet we really are. Recently, the video rental store Blockbuster re-activated its website, posting a cryptic message that reads, "we are working on rewinding your movie", and that has reactivated the public's love of a corporation that went bust when streaming took over. Perez Hilton drew attention to the flicker of life on blockbuster.com, tweeting a .gif of a twerking guinea pig to celebrate. But as regular listeners of this show will already know, Blockbuster was never completely dead. There is one lone store still standing and operating in Bend, Oregon. We last checked in with the store's manager, Sandi Harding, in 2021 when a Netflix documentary put it back in the spotlight. Here's her conversation with our former host, Carol Off.

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CAROL OFF: Sandi, how is business?

SANDI HARDING: Business is great. You know, the, having the documentary come out on Netflix during spring break was really good for our store in our community. It definitely brought a bunch of people to come and visit.

CO: Visit or are they renting, are they taking away DVDs?

SH: They're doing both. So, you know, the best case scenario for us with all of this newfound fame that the store has is that we're getting people back and renting movies. And of course, we have people coming in and buying T-shirts and whatnot if they don't live in Bend. But we set up a ton of new accounts, so it's been wonderful.

CO: Oh, really? So, it's like the old fashioned, you get an account at Blockbuster, you come in, you browse through the aisles, you, I mean, this is like, feels like ancient history now, you find the DVD you want, and then while you go home. And I guess now, what do you do? You haven't got your DVD player anymore, so.

SH: Yeah, you know what? Actually, there's a lot of people that do still have DVD players. I actually had a father with his kids that came through for spring break and they actually went down to a local Goodwill and bought a DVD player, rented some movies and watched them, and then re-donated the DVD player when they were done. So, it was like very sweet that they went and did that. But he wanted his kids to have the experience, you know, going into a Blockbuster store and how, you know, we do our day every day, but they unfortunately can't.

CO: And do you need the support? Do you think that now you actually can see that this is going to survive?

SH: Well, obviously, when it's busy, we always know that we'll survive. But long term, you know, we do still need the support because when the interviews stop and, you know, the TV personnel stop coming around, you know, we're going to still try to stay open. So, we absolutely always need the support.

CO: We spoke with you last in 2018 when your store became the last standing Blockbuster in the United States, when the other two, I guess, in Alaska, shut down. And then the only one in the whole, other one in the whole world, which is in Australia, is shut down, you became the only one on the planet that still existed. And now, this Netflix documentary that's come out. What has that done for the, for your business?

SH: Oh, it's been great. And the documentary was actually filmed by a local film crew up here in Bend, and we had started filming this back in 2017, even before we became the last one in America. And it's just been a whirlwind for us. And lots of wonderful things have happened over the last couple of years. And, you know, the fact that we were able to survive through COVID, which, you know, every small business owner out there knows the struggle that's come with that. But yeah, no, having the documentary on Netflix now has definitely brought a new group of people that hadn't heard about us yet into awareness of the store and helping, so.

CO: And what's the story that the Netflix documentary tells?

SH: It talks about the story of how Blockbuster, you know, rose up and then fell off so quickly and some of the really bad decisions, including not buying Netflix when they had the opportunity. But it also focuses on, you know, our day to day life as Blockbuster employees and what we have to do to survive and keep our store going.

CO: And that is a very funny side story, which is that Blockbuster could have bought Netflix but thought it was a fleeting thing, the streaming service and decided to give it a pass.

SH: Exactly. And yeah, when you watch the movie, that's definitely a funny spot. And I'm sure there's someone out there kicking themselves right now.

CO: [chuckle] But there is this other irony that a documentary about Blockbuster, about your video rental store released on Netflix, is what has, this new surge in your business. Netflix, which basically streaming services destroyed the video rental store. Is that a bit of a twisted irony there?

SH: It is and, you know, even in the movie, it talks about that it wasn't just Netflix. It was, you know, all the different options in the entertainment business. But a lot of it had to do with the poor decisions that were being made, you know, during that same time frame that allowed, you know, streaming services to. They knock us out quicker than we probably would have gone. But, yeah, no, the irony is definitely not lost on us. It's pretty funny. You know, at this point, we're just grateful that people know about the store. And if it means it's on Netflix, then it's on Netflix, it is a funny twist though.

CO: What do you think it is? Just finally, what is it, what is the nostalgia? What is it that your store appeals to for people?

SH: I think it's the fond memories. You know, everything is pretty chaotic in the world at the moment, especially over the last year. And I think every single person that thinks about Blockbuster remembers the happy times in their lives of going into the store. And it was a much more simpler thing. And everybody loves movies and everybody loved the escape. You can go in and rent your favourite movie and forget about everything for a while. So, as I've said many times, if we can bring a smile to people's faces and have, and help them remember some very fond memories, then we're very grateful to be a part of that.

CO: Well, Sandi, it is good to talk to you again. Thank you.

SH: Well, thank you. And have a wonderful day.

CO: You too. Bye, bye.

CH: That was Sandi Harding speaking to Carol two years ago from the last blockbuster store in the world in Bend, Oregon.

[Music: drums]

Blind Hockey Tourney

CH: One of the hardest things about watching a hockey game is keeping an eye on the puck. Really, they should be bigger, like at least the diameter of a Frisbee. Now, of course, some hockey players are brilliant without having to see the puck at all. This weekend, the Canadian National Blind Hockey Tournament, the oldest and largest blind hockey event in the world, will take place in Toronto. Chaz Misuraca is one of the players attending and he talked to Piya Chattopadhyay today.

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CHAZ MISURACA: Well, as I brought with me, we use this puck that's adapted that, as you can hear is pretty annoying, makes a lot of noise.

PIYA CHATTOPADHYAY: Great for the radio.

CM: Great for the radio, great for us to try to track on the ice as a traditional puck does not make noise. So, for someone like me that can't see very well, I can't really see the puck at all. This puck here makes noise, so I see it with my ears. It's amazing how just a small adaptation, like a puck that makes noise, makes it possible for me to be able to see it and track it when it's passed to me.

PC: And able to play the game. It's bigger than a traditional hockey puck too, right?

CM: Correct. It's about five and a half inches in diameter, two inches high. So, it's about five times bigger than a traditional puck, it also moves a little slower as well, which also helps us.

PC: Are there other changes to the game, from hockey?

CM: Yeah, the net is one foot shorter, so it's a three-foot-high net. The one other main rule change is when we are attacking and cross the blue line, we have to make one pass to identify to the goalie where the puck is when it's in his end or her end. And other than that, the rules are the exact same.

PC: You played hockey before you lost your sight. I'm just curious how was the adapting to the new game?

CM: It wasn't too hard. I've played hockey my whole life growing up as a child, and up until I was an adult, I lost 90 per cent of my sight. When I was 32 years old, I was still playing hockey up until that time and surprisingly it went extremely well. I still skate the exact same. You still pass the same, still use the same stick and everything. Everything is still the exact same except for instead of looking at the puck, I listen for it.

PC: Tell me about the tournament this weekend. 150 players from five countries.

CM: Even more. It's, more people keep coming. There's over 200 players and coaches involved. There is a new player from Scotland that I haven't met yet, but we have players coming in from Finland, England, USA, 11 Canadian provinces and territory. It's amazing how much it's grown and the energy that comes into this rink. It's truly inspiring. It inspires me.

CH: That was Chaz Misuraca speaking with Piya Chattopadhyay on Metro Morning today.

[Music: drumbeats]

Asteroid Sample Study

Guest: Yoshinori Takano

CH: Scientists in Japan have been studying dirt and not just regular dirt: dirt from space. The Japanese space agency used an unmanned spacecraft to collect samples of Ryugu, an asteroid hurtling through space about three billion kilometres away. And the researchers who analyzed those samples discovered something familiar, something that could help explain the origins of life here on Earth. Yoshinori Takano is a research scientist at the Japan Agency for Marine Earth Science and Technology. He co-authored a study about the asteroid samples. We reached him in Yokohama, Japan.

NK: Yoshinori, what was it like to have the chance to study samples from this asteroid?

YOSHINORI TAKANO: So, I'm so enthusiastic to study for the [inaudible] asteroid Ryugu because the accident has the hint of the origins of life.

NK: And what did you find inside the samples?

YT: Yeah. So, we found out the amino acids in the [inaudible] bases. That's one of the critical building blocks of the life, of course. And so, among these compounds are, these findings, we reported one, the [inaudible] bases named uracil and a vitamin.

NK: For our listeners who may not be scientists such as yourself, uracil is one of the informational units that make up RNA.

YT: Yeah, true. Yeah.

NK: You found vitamin B3 or niacin as well.

YT: Yeah.

NK: So, what does all of that mean about the origins of life here on Earth?

YT: These findings, that's critical evidence to show up the existence of the extraterrestrial, biological, important molecules such as the [inaudible] bases and the vitamin.

NK: So, if I'm understanding correctly, Yoshinori this supports the idea that the building blocks of life, the basic building blocks, came here via meteors, pieces of asteroids that fell to earth.

YT: Yes. So, before the formation of the earth. So, during the transportation from the asteroid belt to the primordial planet, such extraterrestrial, I mean the exogenous bodily component delivered to the primordial [inaudible].

NK: There has been research similar to this or you know, I know some research has found building blocks like this in space objects before. So, what's, what's different about what you've identified now?

YT: Yeah. Yeah. Good question. Oh, thinking about the [inaudible] a meteorite falling onto the earth. We don't know yet about the exact location of the meteorite, so we don't know yet. Where about the information of their original location. But thinking about the carbonaceous asteroids, we know the exact location along with the asteroid belt.

NK: You know its address.

YT: Yeah, so yeah. That too. Yeah. We say the hometown of the, our ancestor molecule. [laughter]

NK: You know the hometown of our ancestor molecule. [laughter] That's great. Another aspect and as I understand it is that the sample is not contaminated.

YT: Yeah, that is also a very important issue. So, for, think about a meteorite. So, there is the atmospheric gases such as the oxygen and nitrogen on the earth. There are a lot of bunch of the biosphere, the biological are biogenic contamination [inaudible]. So, to prevent such situations we conducted here very fresh materials from the asteroid Ryugu without any exposure of the atmospheric atmosphere in the air, without any contamination from the [inaudible] or biosphere.

NK: So, why is that important that they're so clean?

YT: Yeah. Yeah, to do that to eliminate such a noise from the [inaudible] or environment, we can get the very pristine and the fresh information off of the, from the samples give us from the asteroid Ryugu.

NK: So, it makes it easier to understand because it's clearer.

YT: Yeah that's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. That's a [inaudible] without any noises from the [inaudible] information.

NK: There's always more research to do, I'm sure. So, what's next for you and your team?

YT: We will handle the sample from the asteroid [inaudible] also. And we will do the investigation, molecular surveys using the, our technique. To, yeah. Compared with the, between Ryugu and [inaudible] samples. That's a big challenge for us.

NK: I bet. Yoshinori. Thank you very much.

YT: Yeah.

CH: That was research scientist Yoshinori Takano. We reached him in Yokohama, Japan.

[Music: electric guitar]

Canada Reads - Silvia Moreno-Garcia

CH: When Noemi pays her cousin a visit. It's not just a fun vacation. She's been sent by her father to check in on her cousin Catalina, after a worrisome letter arrives in which Catalina writes that she is slowly being poisoned by her husband and that the home they share together High Place, is, quote, "sick with rot". What unfolds next in the novel "Mexican Gothic" set in the 1950s is surprising and unsettling. It's one of the contenders for this year's Canada Reads competition, which, as we mentioned earlier, it starts Monday on the CBC. Here's author Silvia Moreno-Garcia reading from "Mexican Gothic".

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SILVIA MORENO GARCIA: A chair had been set by the window Catalina sat in, she was looking outside and did not stir when the women walked into the room. Her auburn hair was gathered at her nape, Noemi had steeled herself to greet a stranger ravaged by disease. But Catalina did not seem much different from when she'd lived in Mexico City. She is supposed to have her medication in 5 minutes, Florence said, consulting her wristwatch. Then I'll take those 5 minutes. The other woman did not seem happy, but she left. Noemi approached her cousin. Catalina, it's me. Noemi. She placed a hand gently on her cousin's shoulder, and only then the Catalina look at Noemi. She smiled slowly. Noemi, you've come. She stood in front of Catalina, nodding. Yes. Father has sent me to check up on you. How are you feeling? What's wrong? I feel awful. I had a fever, Neomi. I'm sick with tuberculosis, but I'm feeling better. You wrote a letter to us, do you remember? You said odd things in it. I don't quite remember everything I wrote, Catalina said. I had such a high temperature. Catalina was five years older than Noemi, not a great age gap, but enough that when they were children, Catalina had taken on a motherly role. Noemi remembered, many afternoons spent with Catalina making crafts, cutting dresses for paper dolls, going to the movies, listening to her spin fairy tales. It was strange to see her like this. So sorry, darling. I shouldn't have written. You probably have many things to do in the city your friends, your classes, and now you're here because they scribble nonsense on a piece of paper. Don't worry about it. I wanted to come and see you. We haven't seen each other in ages. I had thought you would come visit us by now, to be frank. Yes, Catalina said. Yes, I thought so too. But it's impossible to get out of this house. Catalina was pensive, her eyes, hazel pools of stagnant water grew duller. She drew her breath, then turned her head and coughed. Catalina, time for your medicine, Florence said, marching into the room. A glass bottle and a spoon in hand. Come now.

CH: That was Silvia Moreno-Garcia reading from her novel "Mexican Gothic", which is a contender for this year's Canada Reads, and it will be championed by TikTok creator Tasnim Geedi starting on Monday.

[Music: techno]

Camaro Retired

CH: In the late 1960s, car buyers had a choice. Did they want a sensible sedan, or did they want a sleek metal dragon forged in the molten innards of a tempestuous fire mountain?

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NARRATOR: Volcano. Alive. Camaro. A fiery new creation from Chevrolet.

CH: A 1967 commercial for General Motors' new muscle car, the Camaro. And if you think the narrator was overheated in that part, listen to this.

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NARRATOR: Camaro, a new car that's something else. Something you've never seen before in a driving machine. This is the SS350 with rally sport equipment, wicked flat grille and a fuselage that bulges around a 350 cubic inch V8 engine. Shaped for action. All the way back to its 40 rear...

CH: At which point security ushered him out of the building. The Camaro was a big deal, though, along with the Ford Mustang and the Dodge Charger. It was one of the quintessential muscle cars of the last five decades. Known for its sleek, alluring lines and its powerful engine whose sensual rumble and insistent throb reverberate. Sorry, now I'm doing it. Anyway, it was cool and loud, and it mostly appealed to young drivers. Although this 1970 commercial makes it clear the Camaro was for everyone. Well, it doesn't make that clear. Exactly.

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ACTOR SON: I said, You can use my Camaro, but not all the time, Dad.

ACTOR DAD: Okay. If that's the way you feel about it, I'll save up and buy one of my own.

NARRATOR: New Camaro the super hugger. See it at your Chevy dealer. After all, it's not how young you are. It's how old you aren't.

CH: Yeah. It's not how young you are. It's how old you aren't. Also, the super hugger was a reference to how it hugs the road, I think. Anyway, yesterday Chevrolet announced that it is going to give the Camaro one last super hug before saying goodbye. Next January, the last one will roll off the assembly line as GM continues its planned transition to exclusively electric vehicles by 2035. In other words, it's not how sexy and muscular it is, it's how electric it isn't. An executive says this is not the end of Camaro's story, but it's certainly the end of an era. So, I guess it's back to the volcano for a car that was a true labour of lava.

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March 23, 2023 Episode Transcript