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The AIH Transcript for March 21, 2023

Prologue

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight,

NK: He's a lock if he's locked up. Former Republican strategist Rick Wilson says an indictment could be exactly what Donald Trump needs to take his party's nomination for the White House.

CH: If the chairs are rocking, don't come a knocking. The U.S. climate activist Bill McKibben explains why he and others in the over 60 set took to their rocking chairs to make a point about U.S. banks and climate change.

NK: Read it and reap. A tech entrepreneur sets up what is now a million dollar contest to decipher scrolls nearly destroyed by Mount Vesuvius.

CH: Periods and question marks. A Florida teacher says a proposed state law would bar her and her colleagues from talking about their students' periods. And that has her concerned about her own kids.

NK: Rice and beans and all they can mean. A tribute to Cruz Miguel Ortiz Cuadra, the food historian credited with reconnecting Puerto Ricans with the rich food of their culinary roots.

CH: And it's extremely clear that the ball is in their court. Their home arena is not permitted to play their theme song at the start of March Madness games. So, fans of Virginia Tech's women's basketball team have taken to belting it out themselves instead. As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that guesses they don't like their heroes unsung.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Rick Wilson On Trump Indictment, FLA. Period Talk Ban, Vesuvius Scroll Prize

Rick Wilson On Trump Indictment

Guest: Rick Wilson

CH: "PROTEST. TAKE OUR NATION BACK. WE MUST SAVE AMERICA. PROTEST, PROTEST, PROTEST". Those were the words in all caps, as usual, posted by former President Donald Trump on his truth social platform this weekend. He predicted he would be arrested on Tuesday. That's today, over allegedly hiding the hush payments he made to porn star Stormy Daniels. As of right now, no arrests or major protests have materialized. But this and other looming legal troubles have many Republicans wondering what all this means for the future of their party. Rick Wilson is a conservative critic of Mr. Trump and the founder of the Lincoln Project. We reached him in Florida.

NK: Rick, as we speak right now, it's late on Tuesday afternoon. The situation is still in flux, but we are seeing some reports that the indictment may come down as early as tomorrow. If that were to happen, what do you think we should expect?

RICK WILSON: Well, I think we should expect a spectacle. This is what Donald Trump has been able to do any other time he has been in legal or political trouble is to motivate his base and to motivate his supporters and to motivate the vast media apparatus that covers him, particularly on the right to, to treat everything as an epic contest, as an epic spectacle, as a moment where, you know, the entire fate of America hangs in the balance. And there are a lot of people that support him who believe that and a lot of people who support him, who, unfortunately, as we saw on January 6th, are willing to take violent political action from time to time on that. I hope that is not what they do this time. I hope they understand that the path of know least violence is the path of most political benefit. But it is certainly something that we're keeping an eye on.

NK: Earlier this week on your Lincoln Project website under the headline, "He Wants This", you wrote a post. Why do you think Trump sees an indictment as a good thing as working in his favour?

RW: He views this indictment as something that will unify the Republican Party behind him. And I think he's correct on that. He sees it as a way to increase his ability to take control of the Republican primary process. He views it as one more way to catalyze the idea and the appeal to his base that only he is the one who can carry forward this authoritarian movement. He doesn't say that in as many words, but only he is the one that can carry forward this movement. And I think he's actually proven himself correct this week because every other Republican candidate, either prospective or actually declared for 2024. What did they do this week? They all said, you know, this prosecution is illegitimate. Trump shouldn't be tried. He shouldn't be, there should be no case. Alvin Bragg the district attorney should be pilloried and that act of complete collapse on the part of these Republican candidates really shows that there's no predicate for them to run against Donald Trump.

NK: When you see these candidates, potential candidates, including Ron DeSantis and Mike Pence, are doing what you're saying, characterizing Trump's legal troubles as politically motivated, why aren't even his opponents using Trump's legal troubles against him?

RW: Well, they are all victims of a moment in Republican politics that...

NK: Is victim the right word?

RW: No victim, is not the right word. They are all participants in a political movement now that has become highly hierarchical, centred around one person, almost as if, almost in a cult like way. And any critique of Donald Trump is not allowed. They are fearful of his base. They are fearful of him. They are fearful of the violence that he and his, that he has inspired in followers in the past. And so, they look at they look at any criticism of Trump, and they have to try to couch it in some externality. They have to try to hide it away in some sort of other excuse. Ron DeSantis tried to take a little slight sideways slap at Donald Trump in his statement. I don't know about paying off porn stars. And the result was not a round, a round of applause from the Republicans. The result was that Ron DeSantis in the last two days has been absolutely mobbed by Trump supporters who have said, you know, I could have voted for you, but now I won't. You criticized the Donald Trump. I'm not doing it. And so with all of them, you know, from Pence, to the DeSantis, to Haley, to Pompeo, all of them have said, no, this is illegitimate instead of the right thing, which was very simple, the right things they didn't even have to hurt that much. They should have simply said, look, this is a legal process. I'm going to see how it plays out. I believe in the American justice system.

NK: Just help us understand why he continues to be such a powerful figure in the Republican Party when he was defeated in 2020. The midterms last year were seen, you know, widely as an indication that his political power was very diminished. So, why does he still hold so much sway?

RW: Donald Trump is the most important figure in the Republican Party by an order of magnitude because he controls the base. The base is emotional, not rational. The base is centred on its own imagined oppression and its own imagined outrages that they believe and they've been told for many, many generations that, you know, these poor, upper middle class white Republicans are really the oppressed class in America and no one ever gave them permission to believe and say those things like Trump did. And that bond he has with the Republican base cannot be shattered unless you absolutely defeat him in another presidential election.

NK: So, do you think Trump could actually be beaten again, or do you think he could win the presidential election in 2024?

RW: I think both are possibilities. Remember, Donald Trump improved his performance between 2016 and 2020, but that's not a great thing. This is a closely divided country. It's going to require a brilliantly run campaign on the side of the Democrats, and they're going to have to burn Trump to the ground. You can never let him off the mat. You can never stop fighting. And once you get in a fight with Donald Trump and we saw this in 2016 and we've seen this over and over again, once you're in a fight with Trump, if you ever stop hitting in that fight, he will defeat you. He will crush you. And so, Biden's campaign is going to have to gear up quickly. They're going to have to fight hard. I mean, we're prepared for it mentally and we're preparing for it politically. But I do remind people that this is going to be the most consequential political campaign in the last 150 years.

NK: Rick, thank you.

RW: I'm glad to help.

CH: Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project. We reached him in Florida.

[Music: electro percussion]

FLA. Period Talk Ban

Guest: Meghan Mayer

CH: Talking about menstruation can sometimes be awkward or uncomfortable, and if a new bill passes in Florida, it could also be illegal. In its current form, House Bill 1069 would restrict instruction on human sexuality, sexually transmitted diseases and related topics for students in elementary school. And the bill's sponsor, Republican Stan McClain, says teachers would also be prohibited from talking about menstrual cycles with elementary school students. Meghan Mayer is a Grade Six teacher at Woodland Middle School in Florida. We reached her in Sarasota.

NK: Megan, I'm wondering, have any of your students ever talk to you about their periods?

MEGHAN MAYER: They definitely have. One of the things that I always start the school year with is, you know, we go over our procedures and things like that. And I always have an area in my classroom where I have sanitary napkins available for the students who need them. So, that's always been kind of my welcome to my classroom sort of spiel. Anyone needs this is here. If you're not comfortable with pulling it out of the drawer, you know you can come to me. So, I've definitely had students who, you know, maybe they're just not feeling well and they're like, Ms. Mayer, I just don't want to do this today. I'm on my period. I just don't feel good.

NK: How do the rest of the students react, you know, when you have that spiel?

MM: Honestly, it's always gone over really well. You do have a couple of students who might giggle a little bit, but because it's part of my first day presentation, they're usually really well behaved anyways.

NK: So, this is part of your regular routine as a teacher, part of your classroom. What did you think when you heard about this bill?

MM: It just flabbergasted me. At first when I heard about it. It's kind of the way that I felt about the "don't say gay" bill, as we call it. I didn't think that was real. I didn't think that was actually going to go through. And so, when I first heard about this right away, it was like, well, as ridiculous as it sounds, it probably will go through, because that just seems to be what we're doing in Florida. We are villainizing teachers and curriculum and, and just doing everything that they can to make everything as hard as possible.

NK: The bill's sponsor, Representative Stan McClain, a Republican, says this bill is necessary to bring unity to public education in Florida and suggests that if it were to become law, it would give parents a bigger say in how their children are taught. What do you make of that argument?

MM: I'm trying to not laugh when you said unity, because other parts of this bill are anything but unity. It is not going to allow teachers to call students by their preferred pronouns. And that's something that really bothers me, not only as a teacher, but also as a parent. You know, Florida tries to say, oh, we're all about parents taking back the control, but then you're going to go against what some of the parents want for their students. So, to me, it just doesn't make any sense. It's anything but unifying. And it's just funny to me that, of course, it's a man that created this bill.

NK: What kinds of conversations are you having with fellow teachers?

MM: That we just can't believe, it's just one more thing. Like I said, it just feels like not only are we going backwards, but that again, we're just like villainizing teachers. Like they think that we're just sitting around having conversations with all of our students about, you know, periods and, you know, school assignments and things like that. And it's not like that at all. It's usually just, you know, a student confiding in you and saying, you know, hey, I don't feel good. I'm on my period. Or do you have something, you know, like a sanitary napkin so, I don't have to go all the way down to the clinic. Now, this is going to be a shameful thing. Girls have their periods. It's a part of life. It's something that we cannot control. And so, this just feels like we're just going completely backwards.

NK: I just want to say thanks again. I know you're losing your voice today, so I appreciate, appreciate your time. Meghan. And you mentioned earlier the "don't say gay" bill. What kind of an impact has that specifically had on your classroom and your students?

MM: I used to have a pride flag in my window, in my classroom, and I would have students that weren't even my students all the time. They would stop and say, thanks for having that or I like your flag. And, you know, they all know that I'm, I'm married to a man, I'm straight, but that I am a safe person, that my room is a safe space for you. And after the bill went into effect, I had to take my flag down because all I need is for a parent who doesn't agree with that flag, who is upset by it to make a complaint to the district, it will go to the school board. And our school board is very politically leaning a different way. And I don't think that they would have my back and I would lose my job. And it's really frustrating because I try to be an advocate for those students. I have tried to advocate for that group of people and for all students know on my social media and I have really had to step back from that because my family is more important in the long run and I have to be able to support my family and this is my career. But it's something I struggle with all the time; is I have my core values and the things that I really believe in. And I'm basically having to censor myself because I'm afraid of losing my job.

NK: What about the students who've confided in you? How are they dealing with the changes that have already come and that may still come?

MM: They're scared. They're definitely scared. I have had a few students who have actually transferred to other schools or like charter schools, and just in our community in general without, you know, giving away too much information. We have had a few students who've actually taken their own lives who were part of the LGBTQ+ community. So, it's just really scary.

NK: I'm so sorry to hear that, Meghan. Thank you for sharing that with us. You've made the decision to transfer out, to leave Florida and to move to Michigan with your family. Why did you decide to do that? What was the thing that forced your first your hand in the end?

MM: I want to teach, and I want to be able to teach about diversity and inclusion. And also, I want my classroom to be diverse and to be a comfortable accepting space. And that's what I grew up with, going to school in Michigan. And it's where I want my daughters to be raised. I don't want to raise them in this political environment down here. If I were to stay, I don't know if I would continue teaching. And it's really hard. I mean, this is my career. It's almost like a part of my personality. You know, I would like to be hopeful that maybe things will get better. But I really think Florida's is not going in that direction.

NK: Megan, thank you.

MM: Thank you.

CH: That was Megan Mayer, a Grade Six teacher at Woodland Middle School in Florida. We reached her in Sarasota.

[Music: calm guitar]

Vesuvius Scroll Prize

Guest: Nat Friedman

CH: For hundreds of years, a blackened clump of scrolls has kept its secrets. The pages of papyrus were fused together in Herculaneum during the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 A.D. Scientists were only able to guess at the brilliant works of ancient literature inscribed on the smushed together pages. Recently, computer scientists have been able to use 3-D X-rays to produce images of the pages. But they're asking for help from the public to develop machine learning programs or any other means to successfully read the text on the scrolls. And they're offering a million dollars in prizes to successful teams. Nat Friedman is a tech entrepreneur who launched the Vesuvius challenge. We reached him in Silicon Valley, California.

NK: Nat, what do these scrolls look like if we were able to hold them in our hands?

NAT FRIEDMAN: They look like flaky, extremely lightweight, very fragile pieces of ash. And if you were to just squeeze it lightly in your hand, they would turn to dust.

NK: The scroll was found in a villa back in 1750, but dates back about 2000 years. What could be written on these charred remains?

NF: The exciting thing is we don't know. We actually have about 800 of these scrolls and we don't have a way of opening them. And so, we're really not sure. We do know that the ones that have flaked apart or the few that were opened very carefully over decades by a monk in the late 1700s had some Greek philosophical texts. But the dream is big. I mean, the extreme upside case is there could be a lost work in here. There are famous books from Rome that we, from ancient Rome that we don't have, that we hear about. They're referred to, poems of Sappho, autobiographies that are lost, epic works. Or it could be something surprising that we don't know about. You know, we do know that the Apostle Paul was in the area of the Vesuvius eruption at the time, and this was in A.D. 79. Just, you know, in that first century, there's no first century materials about Christianity that we have. So, those could be very interesting to the world's Christians. I think almost anything would be fascinating, even if it's just a grocery list. That would be so cool to see.

NK: The science of producing x-ray images so, you don't have to risk these scrolls disintegrating in your hands. The images of inside these scrolls. Just tell me about that, that science and what's gone into getting to this point.

NF: Yeah. So, the basic idea is simple. It is a CT scan. So, if you've broken a bone and you've been to the hospital and you were unfortunate enough to have to go through that and get a CT scan, it's the same basic idea. It's a 3D X-ray that rotates around whatever you're trying to image, and then you reconstruct a 3D view of it using this technique called tomography. The difference is that these are scrolls, not people, and the resolution of the scan is much, much higher. And to get that incredibly high resolution, you have to use very high energy. And so actually, these scans were made in a particle accelerator using high energy physics, an enormous building sized synchrotron in Oxford, England. And so, you can't just take them to the hospital and get scans like this. The unsolved problem, the trick that, that we need to sort of solve for in this case is that the ink there was used on these papyrus is, actually doesn't really show up on the X-ray. You can't see it with the naked eye. And so, we have, this is where machine learning and artificial intelligence comes in. The team that's been working on this for the last several years has discovered that machine learning models can detect the ink. And so, we have a proof positive that this can work. And now the contest that we've launched, the Vesuvius challenge is about applying those techniques to these very challenging scrolls.

NK: Well, I was going to ask, you're clearly working with the best technology and top researchers in the field. So where does the public come in? Why do you need their help?

NF: Dr. Brent Seales and his team of PhDs have pioneered this field, virtually unwrapping these ancient scrolls. They did it successfully with the Dead Sea Scroll in 2015. And so, we know they could get it done, but it would probably take years. And by opening this up to the world and all the creative people around the world who like me, I hope, are going to get inspired by this challenge and just motivated to try to solve it. We think we can pull this forward dramatically and get it done in 2023.

NK: And what exactly does the public have to answer to be able to win?

NF: So, the threshold that we're setting is that you have to extract from the two scrolls that we're providing, the scans of the scrolls, you have to extract four passages, and each passage has to be at least 140 characters, with no more than 15% of the characters missing. And someone pointed out to me after we launched that we're basically asking people to find four tweets in the scrolls, because it's 140 characters. We hadn't done that on purpose, but I think it's pretty funny.

NK: That's what I thought of too as you said, the characters number.

NF: Yeah, it's funny. So, but the interesting thing is, if you can do that, we know that you've developed a technique that can be scaled up to read the entire scroll.

NK: Are these folks who have, you know, really well-honed technical skills? Or is it code breakers? Who do you think is going to be able to do this?

NF: We think that you need a combination of machine learning and computer vision skills to do this. We're providing all the best tools and techniques that we have that have been developed for doing this. We're open sourcing all that code and we're providing all the data. But however, people solve it, we're not going to tell them how. Really any approach they want to take that works, we're happy with, but we think it probably requires a combination of computer vision and machine learning, and we're hoping we can inspire, you know, the thousands of people around the world who are experts at that to give it a crack.

NK: What do the x-ray images look like? Because if what I saw was the right image, it doesn't look like lines of lettering.

NF: Yeah. The lettering doesn't show up to the naked eye. I think that's part of what makes this so challenging. And so, that's where the machine learning comes in. It can detect subtle patterns in the surface of the papyrus, where maybe the ink has filled in the ridges or maybe where the writing instrument has depressed the fibres of the papyrus. We're not actually sure exactly what it's picking up on. To be honest, maybe one of the contestants will figure that out. But that's how we can reveal this, quote unquote, "invisible ink".

NK: I know you hinted at some of what may be revealed in the end, but dream scenario for you. What would you want to see in these scrolls?

NF: Yeah, I think dream scenario for me. You know, this house was built by Julius Caesar's father-in-law. And so, this was a significant person who had access to a lot of things. I think anything that really upends the story we've built about history in the world, anything it really challenges us to rethink things would be exciting. That's what I'm hoping for is, you know, we get new insights and we have to rewrite the story of the past.

NK: Great to speak with you, Nat. Thank you.

NF: Thank you, Nil.

CH: Nat Friedman as a tech entrepreneur who has launched the Vesuvius challenge. He's in Silicon Valley, California.

[Music: bass and drums]

Enter Sandman

CH: The music that gets you hyped up doesn't always make sense exactly. I mean, Nil and I aren't huge fans of jazz flute generally, but we...

NK: Lizzo, we love Lizzo. I love Lizzo.

CH: I'm not sure that qualifies as jazz, but point taken. And we also know the "As It Happens" theme is a banger.

NK: Sure is.

CH: Yeah. And fans of Virginia Tech's women's college basketball team may not be fans of hard rock generally or Metallica specifically, but they're into the team's hype song anyway.

SOUNDCLIP

MUSIC: Enter Sandman by Metallica.

CH: Before tipoff at basketball games in their home arena the Virginia Tech Hokies blast "Enter Sandman" by Metallica, a song about being scared to go to sleep, which is kind of strange, but it rocks, so it works. Well, right now, March Madness is underway, and during the tournament, the NCAA has a rule no team is allowed to play its big hype song during home games. The idea is to make the game feel more neutral, to remove the home court advantage. But you can file that under things that make no sense too, because Virginia Tech isn't allowed to blare Enter Sandman over the sound system, but its fans are allowed to sing Enter Sandman, which is way more intense. On Sunday, the Hokies beat South Dakota in their home arena. After that game, Virginia Tech's Georgia Amoore said, quote, "that crowd was ridiculous. The stadium was shaking. It's really intimidating, and it was just electrifying". Here's what she was talking about. This is what it sounded like at the start of Sunday's game.

SOUNDCLIP

Fans singing Enter Sandman.

CH: Virginia Tech college basketball fans, our Sound of the Day.

[Music: techno]

Part 2: U.S. Bank Protests, Baroness Casey On Met., Obit Puerto Rico Food Historian, Ukrainians Homeless

U.S. Bank Protests

Guest: Bill McKibben

CH: Across the United States today, environmental activists blockaded the entrances of banks in about 100 cities. They say the financial institutions are underwriting fossil fuel projects that cause untold environmental damage, and they want it to stop. And many of them are taking a standby sitting down in rocking chairs. The protest is being led by an organization called Third Act, which consists of people aged 60 and up. Bill McKibben is the founder of Third Act. We reached him at the scene of a bank protest in Washington, D.C.

NK: Bill, I know you've just stepped inside away from the protests because it's such an active situation there, but what is it like outside? Give us a snapshot.

BILL MCKIBBEN: It's been a remarkable day. A crowd of many hundreds, probably thousands of people in Washington, D.C., which was one of 102 protests across the country. Here in D.C., we've been, we had a big rally with the heads of most of the big environmental groups in America. And then we marched to the four big banks, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citibank and Chase. And in each one of them, people cut up credit cards and did a lot of great street theatre. And then we blockaded the doors to Chase and Wells Fargo with rocking chairs. 50 of us older people in rocking chairs shut down the banks for the day. And so, it's the kind of thing that's happening across the country, and that's good because these are, these are probably the four most important financial institutions in the country, perhaps the world. And they're absolutely at the heart of the damage that we're seeing to the climate.

NK: Why, you're hinting at it there, but why are you targeting these banks and targeting them today?

BM: These four banks are the four biggest lenders to the fossil fuel industry. Since the Paris Climate Accords were signed, they've lent them more than a trillion dollars to fund their expansion. The truth is all we're asking them is not to end their relationship with oil companies. We're going to be using oil and gas a while longer and they'll need a bank. All we're asking them is to stop funding the expansion of that industry, because every single scientist out there has told us that that's the one thing we can't be doing. And that message, of course, was underlined three times in red ink in yesterday's IPCC report.

NK: What would, at the end of this day, success look like to you in terms of this protest? What could and should these banks, in your view, do right now to satisfy the protesters?

BM: I think today it's largely been about helping people understand that there's a direct connection between cash in the bank and carbon in the air, and that connection is much more powerful than people realize. The new data assembled last year by researchers shows that if you have five thousand dollars in the bank, one of these big banks and about 50 per cent of all deposits in America in those banks, you have five thousand dollars being lent out for new pipelines and LNG terminals and so on and so forth, that's the equivalent in carbon terms of flying back and forth across the continent. So, this is a huge part of the problem and an easy part of the solution because all these banks need to do is tell their customers to cool it with the expansion.

NK: You mentioned the protests right across the country and the messages you've been getting. What kinds of things are people in those protests telling you?

BM: I just watched pictures from Boston, Massachusetts, where residents of a retirement community marched behind a bagpiper to their local bank branch and closed their accounts. That's one of the things that's really marked this day. It was organized mostly by older people. You know, youth have been in the lead in this climate movement from the start. But today, Third Act, this group we founded about a year ago to bring people over the age of 60 into full engagement with this crisis. Third Act organized today, and though there were people of all ages on hand, there was a lot of grey hair out there and that's appropriate. People over the age of 60 own, about 70 per cent of the financial assets in America, compared with about 5 per cent with millennials. Probably isn't fair, but it's [chuckle] but it's reality. And it means that the banks may pay more attention to people with hairlines like mine.

NK: Do you think if folks in their sixties or other age groups are listening, what would you want to say to them? You want them to join your mission?

BM: Yes, this kind of work needs to go on everywhere. You know, the world did not turn out quite the way we thought it would, I think, when we were young. If you'd told us, told me that we were going to have, we're going to lose half the sea ice in the summer Arctic and half the coral reefs on planet Earth. I wouldn't have believed you. And if you'd told me that people were going to storm the U.S. Capitol killing policemen to stop the counting of votes, I definitely wouldn't have believed you. So, we've got some work to do if we're going to leave behind some kind of useful legacy.

NK: Do you think people, you know of your age group and pushing for social change back then, do you think people got complacent? Why did it not end up...

BM: I think they probably did. I think our second act, it would be fair to say that with plenty of notable exceptions, maybe we were more interested in consumerism than we were in citizenship. But that's water under the bridge. We emerged now into our third act with time and resources and with a, I think, a growing sense that legacy is not an abstraction, legacy is the world you leave behind for the people you love the most.

NK: Any arrests today? Are you prepared for that?

BM: Yes, we're prepared for it. I think so far there's been just one. But I think probably that we won't end up getting arrested today because the banks have all shut down for the day. Once we got outside them. So, I think we've made our point. And the image that will last from today is the image of good people in dozens and dozens of rocking chairs, shutting down the biggest banks in the world for a day and sending a powerful message that they need to change course.

NK: Bill, thank you for your time.

BM: Thank you very much. Have a good day.

CH: Bill McKibben is the founder of the 60 plus environmental activist group Third Act. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

[Music: drums]

Baroness Casey On Met

CH: The head of a review into the culture at London's Metropolitan Police has found an organization that is, quote, "long on hubris and quite short on humility", unquote. The Met appointed Baroness Louise Casey to lead an investigation after one of its officers raped and murdered 33-year-old Sarah Everard two years ago. The resulting report is scathing and disturbing. It describes institutional racism, misogyny and homophobia in the force, a boy’s club where women are only accepted if they sleep with their colleagues. One Muslim officer described finding bacon in his boots inside his locker. A gay officer said he's scared of his fellow police. Baroness Casey talked to the BBC about the report.

SOUNDCLIP

LOUISE CASEY: I mean, it is galling to many of the families and victims and serving police officers and serving staff in the organization that expressions like "bad apples" and 'wrong 'uns" were even used, that the culture, sadly in the Met is all pervasive and that the institutional racism, misogyny and homophobia is largely led by what their officers have said and what our own research has shown, which is if you're a woman in the Met and an officer, you're 33 per a third experience sexism on a daily basis. If you're one in ten of those same women experience sexual harassment and sexual assault, I mean, it is off the barometer. I could say the same about homophobia and certainly on the, on racism. So, I feel quite strongly that it's time for the organization not to be in denial about these deep rooted issues and to take the action needed.

MISHAL HUSAIN: Do you think it is in denial still? Was that the impression that you formed?

LC: No. And actually, the Met Commissioner has just walked in and is sitting right next to me. So no, I would say that they are not in denial about, well, I would say the new leadership is not in denial of those issues. But what I would say is I think somebody said it in the news today, it's like climbing Everest in flip flops. We need to get them climbing Everest in their boots because we have to actually make action this time around. And my worry is and the commissioner knows is that actually this is the first report that lays bare in total the failings to the Londoners, the failings to Black Londoners, the failings to women, the failings to their own staff and their own officers. And I don't want it to end up as another report that is shrugged off, frankly. I mean, it won't be shrugged off, but it doesn't actually get the deep set reform needed.

MH: I'll come to that. But the reason I ask about being in denial is partly because of the process because you did do your own interviews. But you also looked at information that was there in the Met, things like exit interviews and things like the outcomes, misconduct proceedings and they're outcomes.

LC: Well, I mean, this is it. So, we have been incredibly thorough at using the Metropolitan police's own data. So, we looked at their misconduct data from 2013 to 2022. They could have done that. We looked at the patterns of public complaints, internal misconduct complaints, and put them together. Their organization currently hasn't been doing that. So, things that seem common sense to me.

CH: Baroness Louise Casey, speaking with the BBC's Mishal Husain on the "Today" program.

[Music: xylophone]

Obit Puerto Rico Food Historian

Guest: Crystal Diaz

CH: When friends and family dined with Cruz Miguel Ortiz Cuadra, they knew they would eat well. But Mr. Ortiz Cuadra didn't just give visitors a taste of Puerto Rican cuisine. He offered it up to everyone. Mr. Ortiz Cuadra died earlier this month after a heart attack. He was 67. During his career, the educator and author examined Puerto Rico's culinary past, publishing the definitive guide to its cuisine and history. And in doing so, he helped define Puerto Rican food and share it with the world. Mr. Ortiz Cuadra also mentored students, including Crystal Diaz. We reached Ms. Diaz in Cayey, Puerto Rico.

NK: Just give us a sense, Crystal of Cruz Miguel Ortiz Cuadra. How would you put into words the role he played in Puerto Rico's food scene?

CRYSTAL DIAZ: It's very hard to put it into words, especially because his loss was very unexpected. But Cruz Miguel, work is unique, and his legacy will continue to shape what the Puerto Rican gastronomy means for us, Puerto Rican and for the world. So, it is important to understand our history, and most of it was buried. And he came up with a way of telling it in an understandable, relatable way.

NK: Yeah, it's about more than a recipe or a dish. Food is such a key part of the fabric of any culture. So, it was buried, you were saying, from Puerto Rico?

CD: Yes. Yes. I agree food also builds history. It is economics. It is politics. What we eat today, no matter where you are in the world, is a result of all that. But for Puerto Rico, it was buried in, in recipe books, in letters of ships when the, when the Spanish people came. And then when Puerto Rico passed to the U.S. territory. Also got a lot of its history buried. So, that's why his work was important.

NK: When did you first meet Cruz Miguel Ortiz Cuadra?

CD: Well, I was deciding on what to write my dissertation for the master and my counsellor suggested that I should read this book, Puerto Rico [inaudible], which was written by Cruz. Miguel. I read it in one week and this is like a two inches wide book.

NK: Is this eating Puerto Rico: A history of food, culture and identity?

CD: Correct. But the Spanish version, Yes. And as soon as I read it, I was like, I need to meet this guy.

NK: And what was that meeting like?

CD: Well, I remember that it was, you know, when you have that click, like, right there and I shared most of my ideas that are nowadays businesses and projects. It was written and drawn in a paper. And I remember telling him, like, I think that we should be doing these, how we should be doing that. And he was like, yes, yes, please, I want to be part of your master project, because at the end he was my mentor for the Masters and he has been my mentor and guide since then. He was so fascinating that I started to present him all the chefs and cooks that I knew and I, you need to, you need to meet this guy and this guy need to meet you and these girls to meet you and everybody in the food industry, the food service industry in Puerto Rico respects him a lot.

NK: I read that he was very interested in preserving not only the history but food independence for Puerto Rico. What does that mean?

CD: Well, Puerto Rico, unfortunately, imports over 90 per cent of everything we eat. So, for him, it was very important, the new generations knew, it wasn't like that forever that it changed and that we could change and go back to produce our, most of our food. So, he was very advocator of all these young generation trying to change that reality and with historical facts, giving them the power to pursue that dream.

NK: Where did his love of food and food history come from?

CD: His family was very into food and cooking as a way to share. So, when he started to study history, he took a travel to Oxford and he just saw this sign that says Oxford Food Symposium. He was like, oh, what should I do to go in line? And the guard in the door was like, do you eat? And he's like, yes, of course. Well, you can go in. And that's how he got in love with the topic of food history and started to develop it on that. I always say that food is like a rabbit hole you start, and it never ends. [laughter]

NK: I know you've called him a living library. Just tell me a bit of what you mean by that.

CD: Well, there wasn't any question, food or history related that you could do to Cruz, and he was always eager to find out the answer. He was a great researcher and he knew so much of the ingredients that we use in our cuisine that. Right now. I can't imagine who will answer those questions now. We did a great job along with other friends and people in the industry, to keep his legacy in every format possible. In addition to his books. But I don't know who, I will ask something when it comes to my mind of, oh, where these come from or you know, I know that I will catch myself saying Cruz will know. [chuckle] He actually left most of his documents and his library to me. And I want to, you know, cherish and respectfully put that somewhere or somehow at the service of everyone. You know, his legacy is there, but he will be very, very missed. It was too early.

NK: I'm so sorry for your loss. Crystal, thank you so much for sharing your stories with us.

CD: I am very grateful that we get to share more about Cruz's legacy because as long as we remember and use his work, he will be alive with us.

NK: Thank you.

CD: Thank you.

CH: Crystal Diaz is in Cayey, Puerto Rico. She's a graduate student who was mentored by Cruz Miguel Ortiz Cuadra. The writer and educator died this month. He was 67.

[Music: electronic]

Ukrainians Homeless

CH: Imagine a war breaks out and you have to leave home fast. You throw everything in a few suitcases and scramble to escape to a safe country. When you arrive, you have next to nothing. You have to start your whole life over from scratch. That has been the case for many Ukrainians who've come to Canada since the Russian invasion. But when Oleg Redko first landed at the Toronto airport shortly after the war broke out, Red Cross volunteers were there to greet him and put him up for a while in a hotel, courtesy of the federal government. He says some of the Ukrainians arriving today are not getting the same warm welcome.

SOUNDCLIP

OLEG REDKO: It seems that during the last weeks there has been a problem of availability of accommodation for the Ukrainians who are coming, and people were trying to get some rooms someplace where to sleep and there were no place available for them. So, some of them that didn't get their rooms they were sleeping in the airport for few days. So, when Ukrainians are coming to Canada, we get this financial assistance from the government. So, we get three thousand dollars per adult and one and a half thousand per child. Now, to get this money, you need a bank account. So, you need a SIN number, You need the bank account, you need to open everything you need to know, you need to get some money on somewhere. If the person stays in the airport sleeping for three, four, five days, I mean, how is he going to get this money? And, you know, how is he going to rent some place, some basement, some room somewhere, you know? And many people are coming without money. So, you come to Canada and you become homeless the first day you start your life from being a refugee to homeless in a new country. And that's horrible.

CH: That was Oleg Redko, a Ukrainian newcomer to Canada, talking to Piya Chattopadhyay on Metro Morning. An emergency federal program to bring Ukrainians to Canada will expire in a couple of weeks. Eugen Duvalko is with the Canadian Ukrainian Immigrant Aid Society, which now runs the airport reception program. Here's how he explained why some Ukrainians get a free 14-day hotel stay and some do not.

SOUNDCLIP

EUGEN DUVALKO: Vulnerable travellers are getting prioritized for stays. We just have a, last week, I think, and then two weeks before has been a case of a surge in arrivals. Earlier in December when Oleg arrived there, we took over a week later and there was 100 arrivals per week, people that required accommodation. Last week there was 1,400 people that required. So, that's a tenfold increase.

CH: That was Eugen Duvalko, director of the Airport Reception Project for the Canadian Ukrainian Immigrant Aid Society.

[Music: guitar]

Part 3: Iraq Citizen On Invasion, Canada Reads - Emily St. John Mandel, Teacher Shooting Recovery, Ayahuasca Brain Effects, May On Environmental Racism, FOA: Saudi U.S. Prison Release

Iraq Citizen On Invasion

Guest: Raed Jarrar

CH: 20 years ago, the coalition forces edged closer to Baghdad as their bombing campaign continued. In the first few nights of the Iraq war, military officials said they dropped 1,300 bombs and missiles. Meanwhile, the battle of Basra began 500 kilometres to the southeast. As the U.S. and the U.K. Fought to take the nearby oil fields, Raed Jarrar remembers the first few nights of the invasion vividly. They changed the trajectory of his life. He's the advocacy director for Democracy for the Arab World Now. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

NK: Raed, what do you remember about this day and this night 20 years ago?

RAED JARRAR: Oh, I remember a lot. I was in Baghdad with my family. 20 years ago, I was an architect. I remember us digging well in our back yard and buying fuel for our generator and stacking on food because we were preparing for the upcoming war and invasion. And of course, I remember the first bombs that fell on Baghdad around this time. We heard the sirens go around the city and then very loud explosions. So, my family and I realized that it has begun.

NK: The worst had started to happen for you. How long did you stay there and live under those conditions?

RJ: I was there for almost a year after the beginning of the invasion. Then I had one of the earliest incidents of getting kidnapped by a militia in the south of Iraq. It was a friendly kidnapping. No one was killed. No one was tortured. And my parents thought that I should leave the country because that was enough of a warning sign. Unfortunately, you know, my family was faced with much bigger problems in the upcoming months, including, you know, situations where my mom and my brothers almost died because of violence and because of kidnappings that happens right after.

NK: Yeah. The fact that, just the way you list them all these years later and that you could describe them as run of the mill is chilling in and of itself, and that underlines the severity of the situation and you used a phrase that most people wouldn't, would not have ever heard, I'm sure and that's a friendly kidnapping. And, you know, I mean, under the circumstances, I suppose that's the best case scenario that that you experienced. In the worst case scenario.

RJ: No, I mean, honestly, I mean, we're like the lucky ones, when my brother was released after a three, three or four week period, he comes to Jordan and he looks like he's shocked. We know that there was physical violence against him, you know, after he was kidnapped and kept in the dungeon of the Ministry of Interior. But just to emphasize the point that you're making. Everyone was congratulating us. Everyone was happy that he's out. I mean, our house looked like someone just graduated or we had the wedding. Like, everyone was extremely happy with the fact that he was not killed. So, I mean, these tragic stories were the good stories of the time.

NK: We spoke yesterday to former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, and he talked about making the decision that Canada would not join this fight, not join the U.S. and the U.K. and obviously there's pride in his decision. And he's happy that he made that decision. What is it like for you now, thinking about countries like Canada who took that stand?

RJ: I mean, I also congratulate them. I mean, when it comes to Canada, honestly, not only did Canada refrain from participating in the crime of invading and occupying Iraq. Canada also participated in helping a lot of Iraqi refugees who needed new homes after their country was destroyed. The United States, my own country now, that started the mess in Iraq that led the destruction of Iraq in some instances did not pick up the bill and did not support Iraqi refugees as much as Canada did. So, I mean, from an Iraqi perspective, you know, I think many Iraqis are thankful for Canada and other countries who did not participate in the bombardment and destruction of Iraq, but they're extra thankful for those who helped with humanitarian assistance.

NK: Mr. Chrétien, also, you know, I asked him if Canada could and should have done more to help stop potentially, you know, what the U.S. and the U.K. did. And he said, no, there wasn't anything to be done. The decision had already been made. How do you feel? Do you think countries such as Canada could and should have done more?

RJ: There is always more to be done. I mean, I don't think many people would put the burden on Canada to stop an invasion of Iraq. But I do think that, you know, we see pictures of President Bush in his new life now post-retirement, presenting himself as some sort of an artist. I think it is important for Canadian politicians and government officials to hold those accountable for killing Iraqis. Like, you know, nowadays, everyone is talking about the ICC. You know, holding Putin accountable for war crimes in Ukraine, which is great. I love that. But also, we should hold, you know, war criminals who invaded Iraq accountable to the same level.

NK: Beyond that accountability, do you think the United States owes something else to Iraq and Iraqis?

RJ: Oh, a lot. The United States owes a lot to Iraq. I think the United States owes Iraqis first to stop hurting and harming their country. The United States still maintains troops and bases in Iraq to date. That is the first step in ending the harm is to get out of Iraq and end the intervention in Iraq. More importantly, the United States owes Iraq a few trillion dollars in reparations and compensation. You know, one example that I always give is when Iraq itself invaded its neighbour, Kuwait, back in 1990, and that was an illegal and immoral occupation. And Iraq ended up paying compensation to Kuwait in the tens of billions of dollars. And those compensations were calculated and administered, administered by the United Nations, the United Nations Competition Committee. So, there is a model out there, whether it's during our lifetime or in the future, the United States must pay to fix the damage that should that that we have done in Iraq.

NK: Raed, thank you very much for your time.

RJ: Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

CH: Raed Jarrar is the advocacy director for Democracy for the Arab World Now, we reached him in Washington, D.C.

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Canada Reads - Emily St. John Mandel

CH: Years before a particular coronavirus became a household name author Emily St. John Mandel was exploring the consequences of such a virus in fiction and writing about what it might look like if the resulting pandemic didn't just bring the world to a halt for a while, but completely transformed it forever. Her novel, "Station Eleven", is one of the contenders in this year's Canada Reads. Starting next week, panellists will duke it out as they argue over the "one book to shift your perspective". Before that, here is Emily St. John Mandel exploring a Post-Pandemic world. In a reading from "Station Eleven".

SOUNDCLIP

EMILY ST JOHN MANDEL: An incomplete list. No more diving into pools of chlorinated water lit green from below. No more ballgames played out under floodlights. No more porch lights with moths fluttering on summer nights, no more trains running under the surface of cities on the dazzling power of the electric third rail. No more cities, no more films except rarely, except with a generator drowning out half the dialogue. And only then, for the first little while, until the fuel for the generators ran out because automobile gas goes stale after two or three years. No more pharmaceuticals, no more certainty of surviving a scratch on one's hand, a cut on a finger while chopping vegetables for dinner, a dog bite. No more flight, no more towns glimpsed from the sky through airplane windows, points of glimmering light. No more looking down from 30,000 feet. No more Airplane’s, no more requests to put your tray table in its upright and locked position. But no, this wasn't true. There were still airplanes here and there. They stood dormant on runways. They collected snow on their wings. In the cold months. They were ideal for food storage. In summer, the ones near orchards were filled with trays of fruit that dehydrated. In the heat, rust blossomed and streaked. No more countries, all borders unmanned. No more fire departments, no more police, no more road maintenance or garbage pickup, no more internet, no more social media, no more scrolling through litanies of dreams and nervous hopes and photographs of lunches, cries for help and expressions of contentment and relationship status, updates with heart icons whole or broken, plans to meet up later. Please. Complaints. Desires. Pictures of babies dressed as bears or peppers for Halloween. No more reading and commenting on the lives of others and in so doing, feeling slightly less alone in the room. No more avatars.

CH: Emily St. John Mandel reading from her novel "Station Eleven". It's one of the contenders for this year's Canada Reads, where it will be championed by actor Michael Greyeyes. The annual Canadian book debate begins next week on the CBC.

[Music: calm techno]

Teacher Shooting Recovery

CH: Abigail Zwerner thinks about what happened to her in January every day, and she sometimes has nightmares about it. Ms. Zwerner is the grade one teacher in Virginia who was shot by a six-year-old boy while at school. This morning, NBC's "Today" show aired an exclusive interview with Ms. Zwerner about what happened. She detailed her injuries and told host Savannah Guthrie how she's recovering.

SOUNDCLIP

ABIGAIL ZWERNER: I've been doing okay. I've gone through a lot of obstacles and challenges. Some days are not so good days where I can't get up out of bed. Some days are better than others, where I'm able to get out of bed and make it to my appointments. But, you know, from going through what I've gone through, I try to stay positive, you know, try to have a positive outlook on what's happened and where my future is heading.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: You just had a surgery on your hand. What are the physical injuries?

AZ: The initial gunshot went to my left hand and ruptured the middle bone, as well as the index finger and the thumb. The gunshot then went into my chest up here where it actually still remains. So, I have a scar up here and I still have some bullet fragments up here.

SG: So, part of that bullet is still there?

AZ: Yes.

SG: Do you think it will always be there or do they think they'll remove it someday?

AZ: I think it will always be there.

SG: I've asked you a lot about the wounds that we can see but, there are wounds that we can't see.

AZ: Yes.

SG: How are you doing?

AZ: It's, at first it really shook me up. They were open wounds that I could see. And seeing an open wound on your body and remembering how you got it is pretty traumatizing in itself. I think it's been helpful now that they've scarred over, but it's still a reminder that, hey, this happened to you. This is what your body has been through.

SG: So, it's January sixth of this year. What do you remember about that day?

AZ: I remember a lot. The morning it felt like just a regular school day. But I started hearing things and things started happening that made my fear grow. As the day went on. It grew more. My fear grew more. I remember him pointing the gun at me. I remember the look on his face. I remember the gun going off. I remember feeling something. It was a pretty scary day.

SG: In that moment what's going through your mind?

AZ: I was terrified in that moment. My initial reaction was your kids need to get out of here. You know, this is not a safe classroom anymore. And then you need to go find help for yourself. It was pretty shocking. You know, once the firearm went off and then I felt something that shock itself that I had been shot.

SG: You knew you had been shot?

AZ: Yeah, That was pretty shocking itself, but I just wanted to get my babies out of there.

CH: Virginia teacher Abigail Zwerner remembering the moment in January when she was shot by a six-year-old student. Ms. Zwerner's lawyer told "Today" that she expects to file suit against the school board in the coming weeks, alleging there were warnings earlier in the day that the boy had a weapon. Newport News Public Schools did not respond to NBC's request for comment yesterday, but a spokesperson has previously said the district couldn't comment during ongoing investigations. A lawyer for the six-year-old's family says they welcomed prosecutor’s decision not to charge the boy and that they continue to pray for Ms. Zwerner's recovery.

[Music: piano]

Ayahuasca Brain Effects

CH: If you grew up in the eighties, you probably remember this scary, totally nonsensical PSA.

SOUNDCLIP

ACTOR: Is there anyone out there who still isn't clear about what doing drugs does? Okay. Last time. This is your brain. This is drugs. This is your brain on drugs. Any questions?

CH: Actually, I have a question. What does an actor in khakis frying an egg know about neuroscience? Even real life people with PhDs don't know exactly what happens to our brains when we take some mind altering substances. So, they do studies using science, not cast iron pans. Take Chris Timmermann, for example. He led a team at Imperial College London, that looked at the effects of DMT, the psychedelic found in Ayahuasca on the mind. 20 volunteers injected the drug and then had their brains imaged. We reached Mr. Timmermann in southern Portugal.

NK: Chris, why did you want to map what's happening inside the brain when people take DMT?

CHRIS TIMMERMANN: The main reason is that DMT induces an alteration in consciousness that has been obvious to human beings for thousands of years. They've been used in ritual contexts for many different reasons. So, DMT is important for us researchers who try to understand consciousness, the mind and the brain, because it doesn't reduce or shut down consciousness, but it alters perception in a very meaningful way.

NK: What did the volunteers tell you about what they were feeling when they took DMT?

CT: They reported a wide variety of experience. But what was common to most of them was that they had an experience in which the ordinary reality that surrounds us, the world that we usually engage with, went away. And instead they felt immersed in this different dimension. And many of them in that alternate reality had experiences of encountering entities or beings, and they communicated with them many times.

NK: People who they knew?

CT: No. Many times, these beings didn't have a very clear identity. Sometimes they were identified as aliens. Sometimes they were identified as spirits. Sometimes they were just unknowns.

NK: And how did people report feeling afterwards?

CT: So, we also had a variety of responses. Some people were absolutely baffled by the experience. They didn't quite know what to make of it. It was curious. They were of course, they had returned, DMT's a very short acting experience. So, they went back into their normal state and they had kind of like a wow reaction. Others had a very positive, uplifting experience. To some of them, these experiences of encountering entities and entering these alternate dimensions of realities have a positive flavour to them, a spiritual flavour, even to some of them. And for them it was a very positive experience.

NK: How long do these experiences, is it okay to call them trips? How long does it last?

CT: Yeah. So, the trips usually lasts no more than 10 minutes and shortly after it's injected within 2 minutes, people reach the peak of the DMT experience.

NK: It does sound a lot like dreaming, doesn't it?

CT: Well, that's very similar also to some of the effects that we found in the brain, similar to dreaming. And it's quite similar. I think you picked up quite a good clue there, this notion that doing dreaming, we're shut down from the ordinary external world and instead we are immersed in a world of experience that is generated by our own minds and brains.

NK: How strong was the dose that you gave the volunteers?

CT: It's 20 milligrams of intravenous DMT, which is considered a high dose.

NK: And ultimately, why do you think it's important to have this information? Do you see a practical purpose in this?

CT: Yeah, there are two main reasons, and they're connected. So, one of them is that in recent time neuroscience has come to the notion, the idea that our experience of the world is not simply a reflection of reality, but more like an active construction that we perform in our brains. We develop these models and predict the environment rather than simply passively receiving it. DMT appears to affect this mechanisms that allow us to build these worlds of experience. Similarly, in sort of clinical conditions such as depression or anxiety, which is governed by looping thoughts of rumination or other maladaptive beliefs and thoughts, these are the same brain systems that construct their realities. And it seems as if by changing these mechanisms by the use of the DMT, these models of the world, these models of the self, the stories that we tell about ourselves in the world can be significantly changed. So, for us to better understand what is going on beneath the hood during these experiences can also allow us to better develop novel drugs for the treatment of depression and anxiety, and also fundamentally for us to better understand how it is that we build an experience of the world.

NK: Just to go back to the imaging and what people were experiencing, when you looked at those images, did it line up, did what those images showed line up with what people told you they experienced?

CT: In a way, yes. It's interesting when one sees how the brain usually operates is that it constructs these models, these, it crystallizes these forms of operating. So, you have a visual system, you have a planning system, you have a language system, you have an abstract semantic system. These modular systems crystallize as we grow old. What we saw with DMT, is that DMT specifically affected more these human specific systems, the ones that are related to semantics, to language, to imagination, to planning. These are also the systems that allow us to build the world of common experience of what's out there, what we usually take for granted. So, by altering these specific systems, the evolved parts of the brain. We got hints into how maybe people were building. A different reality, a different world during their DMT trips. And this was related, was correlated, as we usually say, with the intensity of that experience, of that feeling of immersion to a different reality.

NK: Chris, thank you so much for your time.

CT: It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.

CH: Chris Timmermann is a neuroscientist at the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London.

[Music: electric guitar]

May On Environmental Racism

CH: When seepage from Alberta's Kearl Oil sands mine got into the surrounding land and water. It wasn't just an environmental issue. According to one First Nations chief, it was also environmental racism. As we told you earlier this month, it took nine months after initial concerns were raised before the regulator and the company that owns the mine, Imperial Oil, informed the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation about the situation at Kearl. And as Chief Allan Adam told us, he believes that delay was no accident. Now a new private member's bill aims to tackle environmental racism by creating a strategy for dealing with the harms it causes. It will reach third reading in the House of Commons on Thursday. Today, its author, MP Elizabeth May, spoke to reporters about the legislation and the situation at the Kearl site.

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH MAY: What are the chances that a decade and a half ago, longer, two decades ago I worked with Sierra Club of Canada in the environmental assessments of the Kearl mine up in Fort McMurray, opposing it. While I heard the Imperial Oil witnesses talk about how they had world class systems, the tailing ponds would be secure, everything would be lined, nothing could leak. And the representatives from the Mikisew Cree, from the Athabasca Chipewyan saying, wait a minute, we're still worried out in the bushes where we, we used to be able to make tea. I remember witnesses saying this even then. We used to be able to a put a pot in the water in any stream and make tea when we were out in the bush and now it doesn't taste right. They added one more, yep, they added the Kearl mine it got approved. And now we know that for nine months Imperial Oil did not alert First Nations people that they were polluting at a groundwater level, polluting at a surface level. Now, Chief Adam has had to tell all the people in the community, whatever you hunted and fished off the land over the last nine months, you have to destroy it because it's not safe. This is a crime. And it comes under the category of environmental racism. And I'm calling on the Federal Government. Greens call on the Federal Government, on Minister of Environment, Minister of Fisheries. Throw the book at Imperial Oil. This is criminal activity; threatens the environment and human health and you know it. Take action. Don't be satisfied with a slap on the wrist and a small fine. All these warnings kept being ignored through the hubris and lies of big oil. It's time to actually call them to account.

CH: Federal MP and Green Party leader Elizabeth May speaking today. Her private member's bill, which enters third reading on Thursday, calls for a national strategy to promote efforts across Canada to address the harm caused by environmental racism.

[Music: violin]

FOA: Saudi U.S. Prison Release

CH: It was a joyful surprise for his whole family. Saad Ibrahim Almadi was facing a nearly 20 year sentence when he was suddenly released from prison in Saudi Arabia today. The 72-year-old U.S./Saudi citizen had been convicted for tweets that were critical of the Saudi government. It's not entirely clear why he was freed, although he is still facing a travel ban, meaning he's still stuck inside the country. His son says it's a relief to know he's no longer behind bars, but his family will keep fighting until he's allowed to return to his home in Florida. We spoke to his son, also named Ibrahim Almadi, in October. Here's part of Nil's conversation with him, in which he speculates about what led to his father's arrest in the first place.

SOUNDCLIP

IBRAHIM ALMADI: Let's put it in this way, and I think the arrest of my father was being in tension against the U.S. because when you check his account publicly, he's proud being American citizen, I mean, like literally himself, he do compare between the governments of the U.S. and government of Saudi. I don't know what he was thinking about that, but he did the comparison on his Twitter account and he said, I'm proud American citizen. I live in Sunshine State.

NK: Often in these kinds of situations, the government will say, the U.S. government or in our case, the Canadian government will say, it's important that you don't speak to the media. We need to do this without involving the media. But you decided to go public. Why?

IA: So, I have been cooperating with our embassy in Riyadh, the Department of State, since December. And October 3rd I received the sentence of my father that he's having 16 years in prison and 16 years travel ban. So, if I'm going to lose my father in this kind of way, which is totally unfair to six grand kids and eight family members, it's totally miserable that I stay quiet. I mean, if I'm going to lose my father in this kind of way, nothing will be worth keeping for myself. I have no problem losing my businesses. I have no problem losing my family members because I don't want to lose my father in this kind of way. And he should be free immediately.

NK: I can hear the frustration and the anger, but also the fear in your voice, Ibrahim.

IA: Everybody's terrified, my family terrified, talking to me. I'm terrified talking to you.

NK: If your dad serves this sentence, he would be in prison until he's about 88 years old. And if there's the travel ban on top of that, he would be 104 years old before he could come home to you and to the United States. How do you process that possibility?

IA: I'm not going to let it happen. I mean, the Saudis better send someone to kill me like they did with Khashoggi, because I'm not staying quiet about this ridiculous actions against my father.

CH: That was Ibrahim Almadi talking to Nil about his father's arrest in October of last year. Today, his father was released from prison in Saudi Arabia, although he is still facing a travel ban.

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March 21, 2023 Episode Transcript