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The AIH Transcript for March 16, 2023

Prologue

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight,

NK: The plot thickens. There are new allegations that Canada's spy agency sent out warnings about alleged Chinese interference in Vancouver's last municipal election. I'll speak with former Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart, who lost that race.

CH: Fire alarm! After a number of deaths in his northern Ontario community. A councillor can't help but wonder if those lives could have been saved if they'd had proper firefighting equipment.

NK: F for effort. State officials in Texas announced they're taking control of the largest school district in Houston. One mother says they need to improve their research skills because she hasn't spoken to a single parent who wants that change.

CH: Farms race. Confidential documents suggest a Spanish company is set to open the world's first octopus farm. An animal rights groups say the solitary creatures would be in for suffering on a hard to imagine scale.

NK: Lava's quarrel. Scientists have long debated whether the volcanoes on Venus are still active. Now a researcher tells us he's found new evidence of an eruption by looking at some old data.

CH: And mush ado about Nome-thing. Let me explain. Ryan Redington has won the Iditarod, the gruelling annual dog sled race from Anchorage to Nome, Alaska, and he slid to victory 50 years after his grandfather co-founded the race. As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that tried to speak to the head of his dog team, but its voice was too husky.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Vancouver Elexn Allegation, Edmonton Officers, Houston School Takeover, Iditarod Winner

Vancouver Elexn Allegation

Guest: Kennedy Stewart

CH: There are fresh calls for a public inquiry into Chinese interference in Canadian elections. But this time they're about municipal votes. This morning, the Globe and Mail published an account of what it says is a leaked CSIS report from January 2022 about Chinese interference in last year's election in Vancouver. The CBC hasn't been able to independently confirm the report, but the Globe says it alleges that China's former consul general in Vancouver tried to tip the balance in favour of pro-Beijing candidates. Then Mayor Kennedy Stewart had been sharply critical of some Chinese policies. He lost last year's vote. We reached Mr. Stewart in Vancouver.

NK: Kennedy, this report says you were warned in May of last year about potential Chinese interference in municipal politics. Who gave you that warning and what were you told?

KENNEDY STEWART: Yeah, back just a few months prior to the November civic election here in Vancouver, CSIS unexpectedly scheduled a meeting with me and my chief of staff to discuss, a very lengthy meeting, to discuss their feelings that we should be aware of foreign interference in the upcoming civic election.

NK: And what did you tell them?

KS: Well, mainly they were walking through, you know, what foreign interference looks like. And then they had a whole bunch of questions about, you know, matters that, you know, what was currently happening. And frankly, for me as mayor, you know, running a city and then running in a campaign, I don't have much knowledge of day to day operations through an election. You're really just focussed on your job. So, I don't know how much help I was to CSIS. But what was really interesting about the meeting was it was one senior official and the researcher. It was a Chinese, an expert on China that they brought into the meeting. And so, you know, and then I kind of said, well, what do you want me to do about this if it's happening? And there wasn't really any suggestions. So, I just kind of went back to doing what I do and running the election.

NK: Did you ask them if they were doing anything about what they were alleging?

KS: Oh, yeah, I had lots of questions, but of course they couldn't really tell me anything, just that. And then I did ask them why, you know, why you're contacting me. And they said, well, this has been going on and that people should know about it. And that was it. So, they are, they have scheduled follow up meetings with other people, I understand. But again, I've returned to my life at the university and, you know, no longer mayor. So, I think this is, you know, an issue that other folks are going to have to look into.

NK: This is not our own CBC News reporting. So, we haven't independently confirmed what the Globe and Mail has put out today. But they say they've seen a CSIS report dated January 10th, 2022, that quote "outlines how China's then Consul General Tong Xiaoling, discussed mentoring Chinese Canadian municipal politicians for higher office to advance Beijing's interests. Ms. Tong sought to elect pro-Beijing politicians to city council in the October '22 election" end quote again, that's from the Globe and Mail. Not our own reporting, but what evidence of that did you see in the run up to the 2022 vote?

KS: Well, yeah, and I wasn't looking for any of this, but how this story came to my attention is the Globe and Mail, editor of The Globe and Mail called me a few weeks ago and said, can I come out and meet you in Vancouver? And then started a discussion and began to talk about this information that they'd seen from CSIS. And then, you know, read me a bunch of quotes from the, from the report and then asked me if this seemed right and like, I thought, I don't know. But I think one thing that hasn't, people don't know is that it was, you know, it was suggested to me that these are recordings. They're not, he said she said kind of stuff. It's, these are recordings that CSIS has of the consul general and other involved bodies.

NK: That's your takeaway from that conversation?

KS: That's what I was told.

NK: That's what you were told. How do you feel or how do you think it may have impacted your campaign?

KS: Well, I lost by a ton. You know, I lost by 37 thousand votes, which is a lot. So, I don't think, if this was happening, it's not what caused me to lose. I think, you know, my opponent ran a great campaign and outspent me at least 2 to 1. And, you know, so, I'm a pretty seasoned politician and you make your concession speech and move on after you lose. I mean, but as a professor that studied democracy most of my life, I'm deeply concerned of these reports that there's interference in our democracy. And I don't understand why we don't care more about it that, you know, and if through my conversations with the Globe and Mail reporters and staff, it does look that the Chinese government may see municipalities as a weak link in Canada's democratic chain when it comes to oversight, which I would completely agree with. I mean, there's very little monitoring of big city elections in any serious way, no audits of our expenses. You know, during elections, there's, you know, not much oversight. And if I was a foreign government looking to infiltrate the government of another country, I would think municipalities are a great place to start.

NK: Your opponent was Ken Sim, a businessman and now the first Chinese Canadian mayor of Vancouver. When you say this needs to be taken more seriously, we know, of course, that former Governor General David Johnston has now been appointed by Prime Minister Trudeau as the special rapporteur, who will advise whether we need a public inquiry into election interference. Are you pleased with that step, and what would you say to the former governor general?

KS: Yeah, I think actually I've been supportive of this step by the Prime Minister right away. I think it's very good to have somebody that we all trust to kind of look at the scope of what we need to investigate. And the former governor general is a great choice for this. I would say that we need to include municipal elections. I mean, there is a big one coming up in Toronto. And, you know, is anything happening there? We do, you know, you hear gossip and stuff, talks, but nobody really investigating it. And at the local level, like at the provincial and local levels, there's really nobody to do this investigation. The legislation that, you know, guides our local elections is very weak. There's very little oversight. And so I would, I think the special rapporteur should at least consider, including municipalities in their, in a report back to the Prime Minister and I think this and nomination meetings, you know, because I went through a couple of those when I was an MP, they are the least, there's the least amount of oversight on these critical parts of our democratic process. And so, I would think that that's a place that we should definitely be investigating. If you put all the other information together and this is something that we need to do.

NK: Kennedy, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

KS: Thank you.

CH: Kennedy Stewart is the director of the Centre for Public Policy Research at Simon Fraser University's School of Public Policy. He's also the former mayor of Vancouver.

[Music: Jazz]

Edmonton Officers

CH: Just before one this morning, two Edmonton police officers responded to a call about a family dispute at an apartment complex. When they got there, a suspect fatally shot them before apparently turning the gun on himself. Constables Travis Jordan and Brett Ryan are dead. This morning at a news conference, Edmonton Police Chief Dale McFee said their sacrifice won't be forgotten.

SOUNDCLIP

DALE MCFEE: The two members were rushed to the hospital by our own members who worked valiantly to save their lives en route. Unfortunately, they are both declared deceased at the hospital. Our members are today, even in the face of tragedy at work, protecting our city. This is what police officers do every day, even when they understands that the risks that they face. We are grateful for their ongoing commitment, even in the face of tragedy. As a police chief, I just want to tell you how humbled and proud I am of our members who continue to serve our community, this community, under such horrific circumstances. We appreciate all the expressions of support from all over the country, nationally and internationally and locally. That is the support that helps us get through each day. In the days to come, we will do our best to keep everyone updated on the details of this incident and the plans to honour their sacrifice in the coming days. Again, I just want to thank you. You're seeing members, many members of our EPS family here today and we're all grieving. And please respect that. The last thing that I would like to leave you with is these people were doing their job. This is unthinkable. It's unimaginable. It's horrific. It's a tragedy. But we will move on because that's what we do.

CH: That was Edmonton Police Chief Dale McFee speaking this morning.

[Music: upbeat techno]

Houston School Takeover

Guest: Audrey Nath

CH: Yesterday, the state of Texas announced that it would be taking over the independently run Houston school district, the largest district in the state. And the response has been less than supportive.

SOUNDCLIP

JACKIE ANDERSON: Our schools should be run by our locally elected school board. As far as I'm concerned this is a hostile takeover. It was done to Houston families. Not with them.

CH: That was Jackie Anderson, president of the Houston Federation of Teachers, pulling no punches about the Republican plan. The state says it's stepping in to address issues of low academic performance. But teachers and parents of the nearly 200,000 students in the Houston Independent School District or HISD, say there's more to it than that. Audrey Nath is one of those parents. Her son attends kindergarten at a school in Houston.

NK: Audrey, does this feel like a hostile takeover to you?

AUDREY NATH: Yes. As a parent, I was blindsided. I had no idea what was going on or why this was happening. And as I dig more into it, I still actually have more questions instead of answers. As an HISD parent, my son is in kindergarten at our neighbourhood school and it's wonderful. So, at first I thought, gosh, are we talking about the wrong district? Like, I couldn't even believe it. You know, we moved to this house specifically to go to the school and it's been a really wonderful experience. So, it certainly was not something driven by parents or any parents that I know.

NK: What have you been told by officials?

AN: So, my understanding is that this was put into place because of some low performing schools such as Wheatley High School is the example that's being given. However, their grade is now a passing grade. But they're referring to Wheatley's score from a few years ago, but not their current score. So, once again, as a parent, you know, you kind of know when you're being lied to and it all feels like it doesn't really add up because their score is a passing score and the HISD's overall rating is a B-plus, which is better than many other districts that are not being taken over right now by the state.

NK: The state does cite poor academic performance, as you hinted at there, but also misconduct and, quote, "multiple violations of law in the districts" and infighting as well. What do you think the reason for this is?

AN: You know, I don't know the specifics of whatever conflicts are happening on the school board, because I'm not on the school board. To me, I mean, there are districts with lower academic ratings than HISD. I do wonder if this has something to do with HISD being a minority majority district. I can only be left to conjecture what the real reason is. I suspect that this is part of a larger plan to dismantle public education. This is the largest district in Texas. So, it's a great place for them to start if your goal is to dismantle public education. And I suspect that their goal will be to turn schools into charter schools and remove the power of the elected school board to these, quote, "managers" who don't answer to us. They, we didn't vote for them. They weren't elected by us. And who knows what they'll want to do from there since they don't have to answer to us in any way. They can turn schools into charters and close down schools, leaving families in a bind and that sort of thing. Things that don't help students at all.

NK: For our listeners who may not know, how is a charter school different than a public school?

AN: So, there are charter schools that are run by various organizations or parents, and I'm sure that some of them are fine. In general, though, public schools in the U.S. need to take care of students of all abilities, including students with disabilities. And so, my other job, I'm a paediatric neurologist and there are a lot of children out there with neurodevelopmental disabilities who have so much potential and could do so well with accommodations. But charter schools and private schools are not required by state law to admit these students or provide accommodations. So, from my perspective, that really worries me.

NK: Democrats say that this is even more than what you're saying, that this is political and that this is a power grab by Republicans. What do you make of that assessment?

AN: I think that's entirely possible because I have not been given a better explanation by Governor Abbott or the TEA as to why this is happening, which then leads us all to have to assume that there's some ulterior motive, because the actual reason being given to us, oh, that Wheatley High School had a failing grade. Well, that's no longer true anymore. So, they're lying. There has to be another motive, and that's entirely possible.

NK: You mentioned the make-up of the schools. You mean Black and Hispanic students? They make up the majority.

AN: That is my understanding, yes.

NK: So, you think that's part of why it's being targeted? Because this is a school that has a diverse population.

AN: It's a district which is so diverse. And I suspect so because there are other districts which are not minority majority that have lower overall scores that are not being taken over right now. I have to, I have to suspect that.

NK: You have another child who's about to enter the school system in Houston if the worst case scenario as you've outlined, it might be ends up playing out. Would you consider leaving the district?

AN: I am not planning to leave the district for a number of reasons. One, we have a house here and a wonderful neighbourhood, and it is a wonderful school where we are zoned, I will fight because I think public education is worth fighting for. I will say I do come from a rather privileged position in that I'm a physician with a remote work job. I have a lot of flexibility. I could provide all sorts of enrichment to my children if needed. And so, part of me speaking out is on behalf of all of the families that don't necessarily have all the flexibility in the world to help supplement educations if schools are closed or changed in significant ways. So, for me personally, I'm not going anywhere, but I'm fighting for everyone who doesn't have it as easy as I do.

NK: So, what can be done now to fight this move? It's not a done deal.

AN: From my understanding, it is a done deal. So, what we are doing to fight it is we are organizing our voices as HISD parents to show one, we are paying attention. Nothing is going to happen in the dark. We are going to watch every move, that we are going to make our voices heard. We will be protesting further in order for it to be clear that this was not the will of the parents of HISD. We are also working towards hopefully having some sort of Democratically elected board. I realize that the chances of that are low, but we have to try because public education's worth fighting for.

NK: Audrey, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

AN: Thank you so much.

CH: We reached Audrey Nath in Houston, Texas.

[Music: guitar]

Iditarod Winner

Guest: Ryan Redington

CH: Just after noon on Tuesday local time, Ryan Redington crossed the finish line to win the Iditarod, the annual dog sled race from Anchorage to Nome, Alaska. He travelled almost 16 hundred kilometres over nearly nine days on the trail, but his quest to win the race is an even more epic journey. Mr. Redington's grandfather was actually a co-founder of the Iditarod and members of his family have raced it dozens of times. But this is the first time a member of the Redington family has won. And on Sunday, at a banquet honouring the winners. Ryan will be given the Iditarod trophy, a bronze statue of his grandfather. We reached Ryan Redington in Nome, Alaska.

NK: So, Ryan, have you had a second to rest and recover a bit?

RYAN REDINGTON: Yeah. I got two nights sleep and feel much better rested up and a good night's sleep does wonders.

NK: I bet it does. I bet it does. But is it sinking in? You know, on Sunday, you're going to be receiving the Iditarod trophy and it's a bronze statue of your own grandfather. So, what do you think it's going to be like to finally hold that in your hand as champion?

RR: Yeah, I'm so excited to have the trophy of my grandfather and something that I've been dreaming of a very long time. And I'm so happy and proud and I can't wait for Sunday to finally have the trophy. And it's very special and kind of indescribable.

NK: Yeah. Your grandfather co-founded this race 51 years ago. How far back have you been dreaming of winning it, though?

RR: Since I've been able to talk, I've been saying that I'm going to win the Iditarod. All my stories in school involved different scenarios of me winning the Iditarod.

NK: When you think back on those nine days on the trail during the race, what memories stay with you.

RR: Yeah, so many memories. The whole race, from the beginning of the race was just special throughout the whole race, the dog team was, you know, I was mushing my dogs. They're just on fire. They were incredible team, to mush to Nome with and just so proud of them. Mushing into Unalakleet where my mom was born is one of my best memories of the race. I was able to mush in to Unalakeet and so much family and so many people. It was about four in the morning and everybody came out and they had native drummers. And I won an ivory [inaudible] and some gold nuggets there and some pizza there. It was just perfect. I didn't have much time to visit with everybody because I was, you know, racing to win. And it's at the point in the race where you got to get about a half an hour of sleep and get focussed on racing the [inaudible] there's only about 270 miles to go at that point.

NK: How many more days would it have been at that point?

RR: Just a couple, couple more days, two and a half more days and then mushing on. I mushed through a village called Goldvin and it's not a checkpoint in the race, but we mush right through the village and every person from the entire village was out to cheer through. And that was so special. And hearing everybody saying, you're going to win it for your grandpa. You're going to win it for Ray, my dad. And it was hard not to tear up going through there. And yeah.

NK: In the end, the top three finishers were all indigenous Alaskans. Did that add to the magic for you and how you're feeling?

RR: Absolutely. To have, you know, the top three mushers in the race, be Alaskan native mushers, is very special. Very, very cool. I think it's a great, great this was a great race for Alaska. And last night we went to a basketball tournament in Nome. And it's one of the biggest basketball tournaments in the state called Iditarod Invitational Tournament. Different village teams come in to compete in it. And when I walked out onto the court, there is no introduction needed and the place was packed. They cheered and stood, and it was the loudest I've ever seen. It was one of the coolest feelings, and it was all Alaskan Natives cheering. They were so proud, and it was one of the coolest things I've ever experienced.

NK: You tried, am I right? 16 times.

RR: Yeah it took me 16 times to win. Yeah.

NK: And what, I think it's such a remarkable story of commitment and perseverance. What kept you going?

RR: Well, the Iditarod is so special, even if you don't win, you have so much fun and it kind of changed your life, you know, you think at some, you think on the trail so long, so much. And I think it makes you a better person. The journey that we share with the dogs and with all the volunteers and the village people along the way it's unlike any race I've ever been in. And it's really special. Even after I won the Iditarod. I am looking forward to next year. You know, my grandpa ran this race at 80 years old and he came in 36th place out of 54 teams. And this was his life, you know, that Iditarod, he, when he passed away, he, he was buried in his mushing outfit that he finished his last Iditarod in. And then he was also buried in his sled that he finished his last Iditarod in. And mushing in the Iditarod, in my family, it's our life. And to share this win with my family, it wasn't, I didn't do it all on my own. My brothers have been a big part, my parents, I call home, now the race rules are changing. You can call home and talk to your family. And I'd ask my brothers, my dad advice on how much I should be on and how much I should rest. And my dad, he didn't want to answer me on a lot of that. He said, you know what you're doing. And but, my brothers, would both chip in and give me their inputs. And I couldn't have done it without my family. My dog pulls that I use in the race came from my brother Robert. And my boots that I use in the race are my brother Ray's favourite boots. He wanted me to have the lightest boots and the best boots possible, so it was very special when he offered me those boots and I didn't have to ask him, he offered them to me.

NK: It's impossible not to smile ear to ear as I am, as I'm listening to you Ryan. And it just sounds like at every level there's such a sense of community and camaraderie and collaboration, even with the people you're competing with.

RR: Absolutely, great sportsmanship. Richie and Pete and the other mushers throughout the race, but especially Richie and Pete very excited to have us three finished first, second, third being Alaskan native mushers.

NK: I know you talked about your grandfather and how he was always in your mind and certainly as you raced this race. But if you could speak to him now, what would you want to say?

RR: That I'm so proud to be related to him. And I'm so, so proud to race in your Iditarod race. And we just won the 51st Iditarod.

NK: What do you think he'd say?

RR: I think he'd say, very good Ryan. I'm proud of you.

NK: Well, Ryan, congratulations again. I'm glad we could speak. Thank you.

RR: Thank you.

CH: Ryan Redington is the winner of the 51st annual Iditarod dog sled race. We reached him in Nome, Alaska.

[Music: electronic drums]

Part 2: Peawanuck Fire Truck, Downed Drone, Venus Volcanoes

Peawanuck Fire Truck

Guest: Sam Hunter

CH: If you live in a city, you probably take it for granted that if you call 911, a firetruck will show up in short order. But in smaller or more remote communities such as Peawanuck, Ontario, the situation is not remotely similar. Earlier this year, a 10-year-old girl died after a fire in the remote Cree community in northern Ontario. That prompted renewed calls on the government to improve firefighting infrastructure in indigenous communities and others. In the coming days, Peawanuck is expecting to receive a new fire truck. Sam Hunter is a councillor for Weenusk First Nation, which includes Peawanuck. That's where we reached him.

NK: Sam, I know it's been two months since that deadly fire and since the 10-year-old young girl died, 10 people lived in the house that was destroyed. And I'm just wondering how folks there are doing.

SAM HUNTER: With everything that happened. It seems like we're always meeting deadlines. We're having a hard time catching up with work, trying to get the fire truck here in Peawanuck. It's been difficult because time constraints, because we only have certain times to get the winter route open and closed. But I think we have., I'm pretty sure we're going to get the winter road in, for them to come in. It's been very difficult, especially with the family they're down south somewhere, because they have no place to stay, There's no home in Peawanuck. But we have a house that we're building for them and we should be pretty well done in the next few weeks.

NK: There's so much progress and so much you've all been able to accomplish in these two months, but so much is happening all at once. Can people even grieve?

SH: I think grieving is a very hard thing for here in Peawanuck, because I think since we've been here, there's been a few house fires. We don't have the equipment to contain fires. Grieving is very hard because a lot of times you would think that it could have been avoided if we had proper equipment. So, we're kind of like trying to retrofit houses, get the fire truck in, and having that thought of thinking that what could have been if we had proper equipment. I think it could have saved a few lives in the past.

NK: I just wanted to ask you personally as well, you know, you're a leader in this community, but you've also experienced this loss personally in the past in the late nineties. And only if you're comfortable, sir, sharing your personal story. And I ask because it must be hard to relive that and see another family going through it.

SH: Yes. I think what happened with my personal life is that looking at hindsight, the houses that we have here in Peawanuck, there are very nice houses. I think the leaders at that time thought they wanted to build energy efficient houses, but they only have one entrance. And I am 100 per cent sure that if we had an extra exit my boys could have been still here today, but they're not.

NK: I'm so sorry.

SH: Yeah. It's hard thinking about it, and it's hard to think for the family that lost their girl here. And I'm thinking that if they had an exit, the girl could have been saved.

NK: Is that how you're building the new, the new house for the family?

SH: The new houses we're building they have an extra exit. Yes.

NK: The last fire truck I believe you had was from 1996. Is that one completely out of commission now?

SH: The fire truck that they ordered a long time ago, I don't think it was really thought clearly. But it's no bigger than a pickup truck. So, it was already obsolete when it came in here. And we never had any funding for it. And the council at that time, they tried building a building from their own funding and there was never any funding. So, they had a shortfall and it was never insulated. There was no water to that building. They tried, but there was no funding. So, eventually the truck deteriorated.

NK: The new truck that's finally close to getting to you. What does it look like? What will it be able to do?

SH: Yeah, the new truck is a truck that you would normally see in an urban centre. It's very nice. And I'm in a process of sending four people out for training. We don't have the funding yet, but we'll, I think we can find the funding. We'll get four people certified and we'll also get volunteers from the community appointed. They'll be available within minutes if there was an accident in the future.

NK: In terms of how long it took for you to finally get this kind of truck. Indigenous Services Canada approved funding in January 2022 for about 500,000 dollars to purchase this new truck. So, what's taken so long, do you think?

SH: I think our First [inaudible] requested it and they were very helpful after the house fire and the last month and a half, they've had a lot of team members organized from the province and also Manitoba, and we had a lot of Zoom calls and we were supposed to get a building this year. But the time constraints, we didn't have the building signed off by an engineer to make it fireproof and make sure it doesn't burn down and stuff like that. So, it's going to be in a temporary building for the first year, first year and a half, and then we'll build the hall.

NK: I believe this truck, or this kind of truck has gone to 31 First Nations overall. It has been used in other First Nations, but many communities still do lack the infrastructure they need or the equipment they have needs to be repaired. And last month, the Grand Chief of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation said, you know that too many indigenous lives have been lost to fire. So, I wonder what message you have, Sam, for the federal government on this issue of fire prevention.

SH: Yeah, one of the things that that I noticed I moved to Toronto for five years back in 2007, I believe, and when I travel to Indigenous communities across Canada and the Midwest, I've been all over the place for work. One of the things I noticed is that most of the houses that are built in reservations are death traps, like I'm pretty sure that children, elders and people with handicaps. They will never get out of a house if it's caught on fire because it's the way they're built. They're built like matchsticks.

NK: So, are you saying, you know, there needs to be sort of a complete rethink and an overhaul from literally the ground up? Yeah.

SH: Yes, that's what we want to do here. And we want to get second entrances for these houses, and we want to make sure we have good equipment. We want to make sure we have trained personnel. The community and volunteers are well trained. But I think getting the fire truck and infrastructure for a fire truck is a good thing.

NK: Sam, I'm thankful that we could speak. Thank you very much for your time.

SH: Yes. Thank you. Thank you for reaching out.

CH: That was Sam Hunter in Peawanuck, Ontario.

[Music: chimes]

Downed Drone

CH: You can see what happened and it doesn't look good. On Tuesday, a U.S. drone fell into the Black Sea after an encounter with a Russian fighter jet. Russian officials have said that the drone crashed after making a sharp manoeuvre. But today, the U.S. military released footage of the drone in action. American officials say you can see the Russian fighter jet clipping the U.S. drone and then dumping fuel on it. The footage is only 42 seconds of a half hour encounter. Some worry this will draw the U.S. directly into the war in Ukraine. But Pentagon Press Secretary Brigadier General Patrick Ryder assured journalists that his country's goals haven't changed.

SOUNDCLIP

PATRICK RYDER: First of all, it's not unusual for us to release imagery of unsafe, unprofessional incidents. We've done that in other situations. And so, particularly in this case, given the reckless and dangerous behaviour and to demonstrate publicly what type of actions the Russians had taken, we felt that it was important to provide this imagery. Certainly, there are certain considerations that we have to take into account when dealing with imagery to include the classification to ensure that we're not inadvertently putting out sensitive information. But in this case, we were able to work through that and provide that. As far as, you know, Russian perceptions. Again, I think it's important to take a step back and look at the big picture here. The United States' focus in the region, the focus with Ukraine is solely on providing Ukraine with the support that it needs to defend itself. You've heard us say before that Ukraine has a right to defend itself and we have a right to help them alongside the international community to do that. So, the United States does not seek conflict with Russia. We do not seek escalation with Russia. And so, we're going to continue to stay focussed on our primary mission in the Ukraine area, which is supporting Ukraine in its fight.

REPORTER: Declassifying the video and releasing it. You know, Russia has suggested that it didn't show the actual contact. How does this really just counter that narrative and show that this happened the way that the Pentagon has said it has?

PR: Yeah, Well, I think that our words and our actions speak for themselves. And similarly, Russia's inaccurate information, false information, obfuscation, grasping at straws, changing narratives also speaks for itself. So, we're going to stay focussed on the facts and we're going to stay focussed on our mission.

OTHER REPORTER: Yesterday, Chairman Milley said the U.S. was confident no sensitive material was compromised in the drone incident. What does that mean? Was the drone remotely wiped? Was there a self-destruct mechanism? Was it crashed in such a way that it would obliterate any material?

PR: First of all, we do have indications that, and I think you've seen some reporting on this. We do have indications that Russia's likely making an effort to try to recover MQ-9 debris. As you point out. And as General Milley highlighted, however, we assessed it's very unlikely that they would be able to recover anything useful, given a couple of factors. One, the fact and I'm not going to go into details, but that we took steps to protect information aboard that aircraft and two the fact that it crashed in extremely deep water. And so, I'll just leave it at that.

CH: U.S. Brigadier General Patrick Ryder at a press conference at the Pentagon in Virginia.

[Music: techno beats]

Venus Volcanoes

Guest: Robert Herrick

CH: When you look at the night sky, it's pretty easy to spot Venus. It's one of the brightest objects up there, but getting a closer look is much harder, thanks to a thick layer of cloud obscuring its surface. It also doesn't help that it's 61 million kilometres away. So, we know there are volcanoes on Venus, but scientists haven't been able to pinpoint just how active they are. Now, however, researchers have found new evidence of an eruption by looking at images that are three decades old. Robert Herrick is a research professor at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. He led the study on this eruption, which was published this week in Science. We reached him in Houston.

NK: So, Robby, if I were lucky enough to visit Venus and stay for a while, what are the chances I would see a volcano erupt?

ROBERT HERRICK: Well, the discovery is, the data said one, but I would bet that somewhere on the planet there is an eruption every few months or so is my best guess.

NK: And what would it look like?

RH: Well, it should look like, as far as we can tell it should look a lot like eruptions that occur on Hawaii or maybe the Canary Islands or some of the other big sort of large, low sloped shield volcanoes that we have on Earth. So, non-explosive like, things like Japanese or, you know, ring of fire, volcanoes erupt. So, on Venus, though, because of the very dense atmosphere and the high surface temperatures, the lava flows are a little bit more runny and long lived. So, even compared to kind of the Hawaiian volcanoes, the Venus volcanoes are even lower and flatter slope. So, it's not unusual for a Venus volcano to be a thousand miles across and only, you know, a mile or so high.

NK: Wow. Your research is based on radar images that date back to the early nineties. They were captured by NASA's Magellan spacecraft, which orbited Venus for four years. So, when you started out, did you imagine that you would discover something like this?

RH: Well, so, I was involved in the Magellan mission as a student. But in order to kind of make this discovery, you really need computer hardware and software that is kind of like Google Maps or Google Earth, where you can zoom in and out and pan around at least a few hundred gigabytes of data. So, that technology did not exist when the data was originally collected, and it exists now. And this was really a needle in a haystack search without any guarantee that the needle existed.

NK: And so, when you found that needle, when you realized you were right that there was an eruption. What was that like?

RH: Well, it was a little bit of a slow burn on the excitement. I was just kind of going around, panning around. And when I found something that they thought looked promising, I'd note it. And then I went back and did more detail. And finally, I'm like, yeah, I think I got something. And so, then I, I showed it to a few colleagues and then contacted my co-author, who I knew has some software to do, some more advanced testing and forward modelling. And I said, well, you know, Scott, what do you think? And yeah, so, you know, at some point though I was like, yeah, I really think we got something, and this is pretty exciting, this is big.

NK: And can you just give us a sense of what those images, those pictures look like and how detailed they are?

RH: Well, so the Magellan mission was able to collect synthetic aperture radar imaging, which is more or less like an overhead aerial photo. And the Magellan, you know, was quite advanced at the time. But the resolution was somewhere between one hundred and three hundred metres, which means that this vent, which is roughly a mile and a half across, you get, you know, something on the order of 15, 20 pixels across it. So, kind of fuzzy with signal, the noise, the radar. So, you know, it's like looking, I don't know, maybe from a plane that's really, really high up in the sky. So, people are really used to, you know, much higher resolution satellite imaging now than they were back then. [chuckles]

NK: How long did you have to spend looking at those images before you made your discovery?

RH: Well, it was, I have to say it was pandemic aided in the sense that...

NK: You had a lot of time.

RH: Yeah, most of the search. [laughter] Most of the search was, a fair fraction of the search was occurring on an endless set of Zoom calls that I was, you know, obligated to be on, but not necessarily to be fully engaged while I was on them. So, like, just like a lot of people right, so.

NK: I don't know what you mean. I think everyone is paying attention every second of those meetings. [laughter]

RH: So, you know, total I would say, total time spent would be something like a few hundred hours or so. So, maybe, you know, a couple of work months total stretched out over maybe, I don't know, a couple to two and a half years or something.

NK: Time well spent or a lot of Zoom meetings.

RH: [laughter] Yeah.

NK: You know, when you look back at your career so far, how does this discovery stack up against it?

RH: Oh, it is. It's probably the biggest discovery that I've made in my career. There's a couple of other ones that have been pretty notable. But yeah, this is a, this is a really big deal. It's exciting. And it's my, you know, my [laughter]. Yeah, it'll be my, one of my big, you know, the capstone of my career.

NK: Congratulations, Robby. I'm glad we could speak. Thank you.

RH: All right. Thank you.

CH: Robert Herrick, who also goes by Robby, is a research professor at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. He led a study published this week in Science. He's in Houston.

[Music: guitar]

Octopus Farm

CH: Animal rights activists are denouncing a Spanish company's plans to open the world's first octopus farm. The BBC has gotten hold of what it says are confidential documents from the multinational seafood company Nueva Pescanova. It reportedly proposes an operation in the Canary Islands that would produce as much as three thousand tonnes of octopus meat each year. Elena Lara of the group Compassion in Farming is not impressed.

SOUNDCLIP

ELENA LARA: Well, we have several concerns about this farm for ethical and environmental reasons. These animals are solitary by nature. In this farm they are going to be overcrowded in tanks, which it's going to create risks of aggression, cannibalism, or even self-mutilation. We also know how they are going to be slaughtered. The method that they are going to use. It's an inhumane method, so, they are going to suffer. We know that these animals are going to be introduced in tanks with ice and water, more or less at minus three degrees. This means that the death, it's going to be painful. They are going to suffer and also, it's going to be a very long death.

RAZIA IQBAL: And on the issue of potential cannibalism and self-mutilation, which sounds pretty awful. What evidence is there that this might happen?

EL: I mean, there is scientific evidence. That when octopus are put in tanks with several individuals, they are territorial animals, they become aggressive. So, they attack each other, or they attack themselves because they are in a very stressful situation.

RI: The company that wants to do this says that farming octopuses could preserve them better than they are in the wild. Could this be true? Is there any evidence to suggest that?

EL: Well, we think that that's not true. I think that the company is doing this because there's an economical profit. If we want to preserve the wild populations, what we should do is establish, quote, because right now what is going to happen is that these animals are going to be in farms, but at the same time they are going to be fished by fishermen that have been working their entire lives, you know, fishing these animals.

RI: Okay. So, they're doing it for profit, in your view. What are you suggesting apart from the farm not going ahead? Are you hoping that by campaigning in this way, you want to try and persuade people to stop the farming of octopuses entirely? Should people stop eating octopus?

EL: Well, with our campaign, we're not saying people stop eating octopus. What we want to say, it's like people needs to know all the concerns and implications for the animal and environment. But we are also calling the EU to take part here and ban octopus farming now, especially now that they are reviewing the farm animal welfare legislation.

CH: That was Elena Lara of the group Compassion in Farming, speaking to Razia Iqbal on the BBC World Service program "NewsHour" today.

[Music: percussion]

Part 3: South Korea/Japan Relations, Songwriting Scam, Lululemon Spokesperson, Golf Balls Too Far, Lightning Lou Obit

South Korea/Japan Relations

Guest: Katharine Moon

CH: It takes less than two and a half hours to fly from Seoul to Tokyo. But it took 12 years to arrange for the president of South Korea to fly that two and a half hours to meet with the prime minister of Japan. The summit marks a thawing of relations between the two countries. It also follows a landmark announcement last week in which South Korea said it would no longer demand Japanese compensation for Korean victims of forced labour during the Second World War. Some have criticized that decision, but others say it's imperative that the two countries work together to stave off Chinese aggression and influence. Katharine Moon is a professor emerita of political science at Wellesley College and a visiting professor at Harvard. We reached her in Amelia Island, Florida.

NK: Kathy, Japan's prime minister, described this as a big step. This meeting, given all of the time that's passed, all of the differences between these two nations, is that an understatement?

KATHARINE MOON: I think that's an accurate statement. It is a big deal because South Korea and South Koreans have been more than reluctant to do something constructive with Japan for the last several decades. It is not just a recent phenomenon, and the two countries relations economically and also somewhat militarily have suffered. And I think they are coming together to position themselves for a stronger relationship, especially in the context of current urgencies regarding China's intentions as well as domestic economic needs.

NK: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. When we talk about the why now, after all this time, is it solely because of concerns about China?

KM: I think China does play a role in both Japan and Korea coming together to reconcile. It is partly because China has acted more aggressively or maybe bracingly, especially in the region, and both Japan and Korea have, of course, felt pressure by the U.S. to make their positions clear in terms of their alliance relationships with the United States. But it is a fact that China's growing intentions to compete with the U.S., Japan and other developed countries in the high tech and AI field make it much more imperative for South Korea to be able to access high tech chip materials, input materials, which they can only get from Japan. And the sourcing has been cut off by Japan in retaliation for South Korea's Supreme Court back in 2018, taking the position and ruling that Japanese companies have to pay reparations for forced labour of Koreans during the colonial era.

NK: Who made the first call here? Who picked up the phone? Was it U.S.’s help in negotiating this? How did we get here?

KM: Well, the South Koreans made the first call, but the U.S., except for the Trump administration, I would say pretty much the last four administrations have been wanting Japan and Korea to reconcile and to improve their relationship because it helps the United States' position in East Asia. And it would make it easier to deal with North Korea and also to deal with trade relations, as well as larger global pacts, agreements that the U.S. was interested in, for example, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. So, the U.S. definitely has wanted reconciliation. But I think for the South Koreans, President Yoon came in expecting and wanting to do damage control with Japan. And I think his administration realized early on that there's really nothing to lose domestically. He is not going to win any brownie points engaging in more hostile relations with Japan regarding colonial era issues. And if anything, Yoon has made it clear he is a pro-business president and that economic concerns of South Korea come first. So, that explains why the administration in Korea has been willing to take the initiative.

NK: If we do take our listeners back to the time period between 1910 and 1945, Japan colonized the Korean Peninsula and during the Second World War, committed atrocities, including forced prostitution, forced factory labour as well. So, given all of that history and the animosity, what was done here to assuage people's concerns?

KM: Well, I think that South Korean activists who are still warning the Korean government to spearhead reparations and apologies, formal apologies from the Japanese government, they are very unhappy about President Yoon's administration going ahead to make nice with the Japanese. However, very current polls show a divided country, a divided society. In South Korea, about half the population looks at the Yoon administration's move to warm relations with Japan as humiliating or not, in the service of South Korea's prestige, etc... But I would say, by and large, many in South Korea might look at this as a very practical move. The way I look at it, in terms of President Yoon's position regarding Japan is, this is purely a national interest based, practical move to improve economic ties, to improve South Korea's high end chip manufacturing base, in particular, to increase cooperation with Japan as a way to increase the solidarity with the United States, a military alliance. So, we're looking at regional global interests versus a particular domestic interest based on the colonial past. And in that sense, the government is in some ways divorcing itself from the society, saying we've got to go our own way to look out for other interests. But the South Korean public that wants to pursue these colonial era issues. They are free to do so. Their private actions are not cut off by the Yoon administration's move to improve relations with Japan. And I would say that trying to make sure that the Japanese understand their own history and come to terms with them as a way for the South Koreans to come to terms with the past. That should continue. But the question is, should the South Korean government be waving that flag solely as a foreign policy interest vis a vis Japan? And my answer is no.

NK: Kathy, thank you very much for this. I appreciate your time.

KM: Thank you very much.

CH: Katharine Moon is a professor emerita of political science at Wellesley College and a visiting professor at Harvard. We reached her at Amelia Island, Florida.

[Music: folk]

Songwriting Scam

CH: Mount Rushka are an indie rock band from Fernie, B.C., just trying to get a leg up in the music business. So, when they were contacted by a superfan who said she wanted to commission a special birthday song for her daughter Jasmine, they jumped on the opportunity. Within days, they'd recorded this personalized song for Jasmine, whom they were told was turning eight.

SOUNDCLIP

ADAM LAURIN: All right! And happy birthday, Princess Jasmine. It's time to celebrate eight trips around the sun.

CH: So far, so sweet, right? But when the band tried to get Sandra, the person they'd been dealing with online to actually pay them for that birthday song, things quickly turned sour. The whole thing turned out to be an elaborate financial scam intended to bilk the band out of cash. Mount Rushka's Adam Laurin explains.

SOUNDCLIP

ADAM LAURIN: So, you know, we are now talking about the cash, like how we get paid portion of the whole endeavour. And you know, she is mentioning that she can't do email transfer, which seemed kind of suspicious. She said it was tied into her business and her secretary was going to be writing a check. And, you know, in the back of your mind, you're like, okay, maybe somehow, they're like writing this off or there's, you know, something in the scenes that we don't know about. And sure enough, when Sandra sends over a picture of the check, it's not for 500 dollars, it's for 15 hundred dollars.

CHRIS WALKER: Okay, why?

AL: So, Sandra explains, it's a mistake on her end. There's still some back and forth going. She explains. Just photo deposit the check. Send us back a grand. You guys keep the 500, thank you so much for the song. At this point, like it's already happened, we've photo deposited, the check. The address doesn't match. You know what the check says for the business name. So, at this point we 100 per cent know it's a scam. It's a pretty elaborate scam. Like, they've gone through pretty extensive lengths to make this possible. But we kept in touch with the scam artist and basically said, hey, can you send us a video of Jasmine watching this?

CW: Good for you. Okay.

AL: This birthday song.

CW: Yeah.

AL: And then the messages just start to flood in, hey, you know, the funds should have cleared by now. You know, why haven't you sent us our money?

CW: Right.

AL: And it's all of a sudden no longer about Jasmine. It's like just 100 per cent. You know, whoever's pulling this off is just trying to get paid.

CW: You know, it'd be great if we could find an eight year, a seven-year-old named Jasmine who is turning eight. Like a real one.

AL: Yeah. I think that would be awesome. And one of my band mates, our drummer, Aaron Wrench, he was laughing because any two-syllable name could replace Jasmine. And the content for an eight-year-old seems to be, you know, fairly consistent.

CH: Adam Laurin of the B.C. band Mount Rushka, speaking with Chris Walker on "Daybreak South" in Kelowna.

[Music: techno percussion]

Lululemon Spokesperson

CH: The athleisure brand Lululemon has a new model, 23-year-old Ottawan Emilio Dutra, whose silhouette is a little different from other models. As a teenager, Emilio was hit by the propeller of a speedboat. He lost his right leg and four fingers on his right hand. He talked to the CBC about what it means to be the face and body of Lululemon.

SOUNDCLIP

EMILIO DUTRA: Before my accident I was in the gym probably like 2 to 4 hours every single day. And that was like the one time where it felt like nothing, it was just so easy to do. I come to the gym and I probably want to be here like 15 per cent of the time. I'm just, I'm just growing, like a lot of discipline to show up every day.

STU MILLS: Now you're the face of this campaign. How does that feel?

ED: It feels great. I mean, my hope in being that guy for them is that I can, just help hopefully inspire someone that might be in a similar situation to me. You know, when I first lost my leg, even probably a year ago, I don't think I ever saw this happening. And I mean, I'm extremely grateful to Lululemon and everyone and my agents have made this happen.

SM: When I first met you, you seemed kind of flat. You seemed a bit deflated.

ED: When we first met, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

SM: You don't seem like that guy anymore.

ED: I know. Well, I mean, I've, I have worked a lot on myself, and, I mean, I understand that for the first two years after I lost my leg, there was, like, no positive reinforcement of anything positive about to happen in my life at all. So, it's like I've seen, I've been down pretty bad, and I've seen some really tough times, honestly.

SM: So, what do you think when you go to the store and you see images of you poised, ready for action standing on one leg there?

ED: Yeah.

SM: What does that tell people, if that's you? What do they see when they see you?

ED: What do they see when they see me? I would say that they, I mean, probably just see, hopefully a good example to set. I mean, that's what I'm trying to be. And when I had lost my leg, I had, you know, quite a lot of bad habits that I think a lot of normal people would hold on to. And I did that in order to try to be a role model for other people that might go through a similar situation to me, or maybe not even a similar situation to me, just someone that needs a good example. And that's how I'm trying to really be.

CH: That was Lululemon model Emilio Dutra. He spoke to Stu Mills on Ottawa Morning.

[Music: Techno]

Golf Balls Too Far

Guest: Ryan Barath

CH: Professional golfers have it pretty hard already. Their job is to hit a small ball into a slightly bigger but also small hole, which is located hundreds of metres away, and they have to do it in as few shots as possible while avoiding the awkwardly placed pawns and miniature desserts in their way. But this week the people who make the rules in golf are trying to make the game even harder. They're proposing a change to the balls players are allowed to use in competition because they are currently hitting the current balls too far. Ryan Barath is the senior equipment editor at Golf.com. We reached him in Port Dover, Ontario.

NK: So, Ryan, it's an interesting change. How significant is it?

RYAN BARATH: This is the biggest rule change when it comes to golf since probably 1974. Now, there have been some slight tweaks over a period of time. But when it comes to the golf ball, this is the biggest change that they've ever put forth to stop the progress of distance at the elite level.

NK: Why? Why are they doing this now?

RB: The biggest reason for this is as golfers have gotten stronger and equipment technology has continued to advance golf courses, especially older golf courses when you think of a lot of the courses that are played on now for a lot of championships, thinking of the British Open, these courses are well over 100 years old and they were not designed with the intention of the golf ball ever really going this far. And because of that, a lot of people, especially the governing bodies, feel that the, this, there are certain skill sets which have been diminished in the game of golf. Kind of like if, it's a weird analogy but imagine if everyone only ever took three pointers in basketball anymore and all the other skills that were associated with the game were really greatly reduced. And as the golf ball has gotten further, it's really putting the emphasis on two parts of the game, which is driving and then closer to the green play. And that mid, that mid portion of the game has really started to feel less important I guess from a skill set perspective.

NK: What will it mean, Ryan, for the women's game?

RB: So, right now they haven't actually decided at what levels this is going to be implemented. That's whereas of right now, the USGA and R&A, which are the governing bodies, have put this out there for organizations to have a comment period. So, the comment period lasts, I believe it's roughly six months. And then from there, the manufacturers, the players, all of these other organizations, once they have their input, they can make a final kind of decision of if they want to continue to move forward with this, with the idea that they will implement this as of 2026.

NK: For those of us who don't play golf, what exactly is going to change with this ball now?

RB: Right now, as of this point, they have regulations that under certain conditions, when a golf ball is hit with a robot under basically lab conditions, it will only go a maximum of 317 yards. And what they're doing is, is they're actually going to change the testing parameters so, that the golf club will be, under the lab conditions will be swung at 127 miles an hour. Which result, which would, if left the same would result in the golf ball going well past that 317 limit. So, manufacturers are going to be forced to make a golf ball that conforms underneath the new testing regulations, so it doesn't go past that 317-yard limit.

NK: I'm sure golf ball manufacturers have something to say about all of this. What are you hearing?

RB: Most are not necessarily too happy, which you can imagine having to change the way they, the way they manufacture, the way they prototype, the way they research and develop new products. Because from a marketing perspective, from a sales perspective, golf sits in this unique world where the golf, any golfer or any recreational golfer can go into a golf shop and buy a golf ball that a professional uses. And at this point, this rule would implement and force them to manufacture a golf ball specifically for the pros. And it doesn't mean that if you are an amateur golfer, if they decided to sell it, that you couldn't just go into a store and buy it. But it's hard to tell somebody who's been, you know, looking for distance and looking to add that to their golf game to say, you know, we're going to take that away from you now.

NK: What are pro-golfers saying?

RB: There's definitely been a mixed bag of feedback from some players. A lot of golfers are saying they should change things like the golf course to accommodate this. And a lot of golf courses have. As an example, Augusta National, which is where the Masters is held, as well as the Augusta National Women's Amateur event. They've been buying up land around their golf course for years to make their golf course longer to accommodate this high level game. And at this point, they don't want to do that anymore. A lot of golf courses don't want to do that anymore. And of course, pros don't want to give up something that they've had as a benefit for their entire career. And in a way, what they're doing is if we think of a parallel to another sport I know I used basketball earlier, but at a certain point, baseball players, when they get to the major, Major League Baseball, they have to use a wooden bat. And in a way, this is kind of taking professional golf and saying, look, now that you're at the most elite level, we're going to give you that wooden bat or we're going to give you that golf ball that just doesn't go quite as far.

NK: You probably know that U.S. PGA champ Justin Thomas said, quote, "you're trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. To me it's just so bad for the game of golf". You're obviously, you love golf, you're serious about golf. You know a lot about it. How do you feel about it?

RB: I think in a lot of cases and this is not just addressed to Justin, but I also think that a lot of professional golfers or any professional athletes never want to give up an advantage that they've had. And, you know, he is sponsored by a golf company that makes golf balls the largest one, in fact. And once you kind of move away from that bubble and look at the game as a whole from where they go play and having to have inputs as far as fertilizer and water for land and maintaining golf courses, because a golf course that holds a professional tournament only holds a professional tournament for one week a year. And for the health of the game overall. The reason these new testing protocols are implemented is because they'll, say 10 years ago or 15 years ago, the average clubhead speed on the PGA Tour is probably around 112. At this point it's gone up five miles an hour. These athletes are getting faster and technology is getting better. And at some point, the places where they play that, you know, to use the baseball analogy, these ballparks are going to be too small for all these homeruns.

NK: So, you think it's a smart move for golf?

RB: I do. I do believe it's a smart move. And I think overall, it is a very dramatic change. But I think over time, this is something that is going to be good for the overall health of the game as well as for entertainment.

NK: Ryan, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for this.

RB: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

CH: Ryan Barath is the senior equipment editor at Golf.com. We reached him in Port Dover, Ontario.

[Music: synth beats]

Lightning Lou Obit

SOUNDCLIP

MARIANNE KLOWAK: What's the feeling for you? You're 93 and you're crossing that line. What does that feel like for you?

LOU BILLINKOFF: Nothing special. Nothing special. I do it all the time. I'm, when I'm running at the river. I do that 10 times when I'm there three times a week, so I know I can do it.

CH: Lou Billinkoff talking to Marianne Klowak of CBC Manitoba a few years ago. And making a run on the track sound like a walk in the park. As you heard, he made sprinting seem like old hat, but really it was pretty new hat to him. At the time of that interview, he'd only been doing it for four years, but he was already a force to be reckoned with. Running the 100 metre dash in just over 28 seconds and to everyone currently frowning and saying I could run the 100 faster than that. Well, let me ask you this: are you 93? No, you're not. So, pay Lightning Lou the respect he deserves. Lou Billinkoff, who became the fastest 95-year-old in Canada after taking up sprinting for the first time at 89, died on Tuesday in Winnipeg. He was 99 years old. This morning, Lou's son, Errol Billinkoff, spoke to CBC Manitoba about how his father developed a one-track mind.

SOUNDCLIP

ERROL BILLINKOFF: When I first heard about it, I couldn't believe it because he had not been athletic his whole life. He'd never run or played in any sports. So, it came as quite a shock to us. And so, when we got him involved in competitive running and he broke Canadian records, it was really something.

STEPHANIE CRAM: Did he ever say why he picked running as his sport?

EB: Well, he was sent to the Reh-Fit Centre after his heart attack and he's supposed to walk around the track three times a week, which he did for three years, and just wasn't enjoying the walking. So, he thought, maybe I'll try something new to make it more interesting. So, he just started doing little sprints and he just gained everybody's attention and they were all wondering, who is this old guy, you know, sprinting at the track? And so, that's sort of how it evolved.

CH: That was Errol Billinkoff speaking with Stephanie Cram, guest host of "Information Radio" in Winnipeg. He was talking about his late father, Lou Billinkoff, who was nicknamed Lightning Lou for his prowess on the track in his eighties and nineties.

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March 16, 2023 Episode Transcript