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The AIH Transcript for July 01, 2021

Hosts: Nil Koksal and Chris Howden

Prologue

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I’m Nil Koksal, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

CH: Tonight:

CH: As it happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that warns anyone who plans to M&M-ulate him, you’ll probably just M&M-barrass yourself.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Lytton Fire Evacuation, Canada Day March, WR Plastic Wrapped Partner

Lytton Fire Evacuation

Guest: Edith Loring-Kuhanga

CH: Lytton, British Columbia, is still smouldering tonight. Yesterday, residents were sent fleeing as fire, driven by high winds, blazed through the community. The fast-moving wildfires followed days of record heat. And now, crews are struggling to contain the flames as officials from the village, including a First Nation community, try to confirm that everyone got out safe. Edith Loring-Kuhanga is among the evacuees. She's is a teacher and administrator at the Stein Valley Nlakapamux School. We reached her at one of the evacuation centres in nearby Lillooet, BC.

NK: Where are you right now, Edith?

EDITH LORING-KUHANGA: We're at the Lillooet Rec Centre.

NK: And how far away is that from Lytton?

ELK: It's about 45 minutes.

NK: How did you get out?

ELK: I drove with people that didn't have vehicles or didn't have transportation to get out, so I loaded them up to my car, and we drove out last night.

NK: Just take me through those moments because what I've heard so far is that within a matter of minutes, it went from, you know, one flame to the entire town was engulfed.

ELK: So what happened was my house, our teacher house, is actually on Fraser Street, which is the second street in Lytton. And so I was at the house conducting a Zoom interview. And about 4:30, I heard the siren go off. The fire unit is just right across from where I live. And I heard the fire alarm go off, but I didn't really pay any attention to it. And then one of the board members called me and asked me where I was, if I was at the school or if I was at the house? And I said I'm actually at the house. And he said, well, you're going to have to leave. And Fraser Street is only about five or six blocks. So he said, you're going to have to leave, Edith. And I said, why? And he said because the fire is down at the end of Fraser Street. And I said, Yeah, but it doesn't look like it's that big. No, he said, I'm there right now. I want you to pack up and get out of there. And I want you to head up to the school. And I want you to set up a muster station because we are evacuating the whole town, and we're sending everybody up there. So I had a suitcase packed because I was leaving the next night. So I just quickly grabbed that suitcase, and I ran out the door.

NK: Wow!

ELK: And then I realized I didn't have my purse. And so I ran back into the house to get my purse, and I came running out the door and all of a sudden I heard this huge explosion. And the fire just started like crazy. And I'm only talking about two to three blocks from where I am. And I was like, oh, my God. And everybody's running. And by then, it looked like a war scene. And, you know, the smoke was billowing all over. The heat was unbearable. People were running to houses and knocking on the doors and saying, get out, get out, evacuate. And so I headed up to school, got a couple of people up there to help me. We started setting up a muster station, a registration place, getting water for people. I said we need to cook something for people. And so we went into the home ec room, and we started making salmon wraps for everybody.

NK: You got right down to work!

ELK: And... yeah! And then the council member who called me, he came, and he said, Edith, we're evacuating everybody again to Lillooet. And I said, what?! Like, I said, I'm in the middle of making sandwiches [laughing]. He said I don't care. We're evacuating. [laughing] He said everybody has to get out of here. So the flames have jumped underneath the river, and it's cut across under the bridge. And... and there's a big gap... gas station there. So it's caught on fire. And it was up the hill, and it was coming closer up to where we were.

NK: It sounds chaotic, but also terrifying?!

ELK: Very, very. And so then we just started off to Lillooet, and got here. And I think we're just... we were all just in shock, like... like what the hell happened? We couldn't get a hold of anybody. So there's no cell service. Even our landline in our school, even our emergency line, wasn't working. And so we couldn't phone anybody. We couldn't let anybody know what was going on. And so everybody was frantic, right?

NK: What do you know about your... your home and the rest of Lytton?

ELK: It's gone.

NK: How do you even begin to process that at this stage?

ELK: [beginning to cry] I haven't wanted to.

NK: Oh, I'm so sorry.

ELK: You know, it's actually a teacher unit, right? But I lived there, and so I have... I have all... everything, all my photo albums, all my memories that are there. But I mean, I've only been there for four years, whereas people have lost everything that they've had for generations. And that's what I worry about, is all of them. You know, they have families. They've got big families. But, you know, what's going to happen to them? It's devastating. And almost all of downtown Lytton is basically burnt to the ground. We don't have a hospital. We don't have an ambulance station. We don't have anything down there.

NK: I'm so sorry to conjure all of that up for you, Edith. Premier Horgan, as I mentioned, is speaking right now and telling reporters that... that they're working to make sure everyone got out safe, but are you confident that that happened? How worried are you that... that people didn't get out?

ELK: Well, we are missing a few people. And so the deputy chief sent in a couple of community members. Apparently, one of them got so far, and then the RCMP turned him back and wouldn't let them go. So there's that frustration because there's a lack of communication that's going on. And so, we kind of feel like our hands are tied to a certain degree. But there's so many... like we were on the call with all of the chiefs in the area, they're trying to offer support for one another, but they, too, are being evacuated. They, too, have lost homes.

NK: What about your students? Have you... have you been able to hear how they are, where they are?

ELK: Yes. Many of them were here last night and really trying to offer support. They're so lost, though, right? You know, one of the... one of my grade three students saw me crying when I was being interviewed with CBC, and he came over, and he put his arms around me, he says, I think you need a hug. But, you know what? It's going to be OK. It's going to be OK.

NK: Well, it sounds like you have a beautiful and supportive community in the middle of this. We are so sorry for what you're experiencing and what you have lost, Edith. Thank you so much for making time to speak with us.

ELK: Yes. Well, and I can only say to everybody, there is a GoFundMe page that's been set up for the Lytton First Nation. And I'm also just in the process of trying to set up a charity. Like, we do have a charity at our school because basically, we're going to have to rebuild the whole town. We know that there's at least 40, if not more, houses that have went up. So there's a lot of rebuilding that's going to have to happen. So any support that Canadians can give us, we would be forever grateful.

NK: Thank you so much, Edith.

ELK: Thank you. Bye-bye.

CH: Edith Loring-Kuhanga is a teacher and administrator at the Stein Valley Nlakapamux School. We reached her in Lillooet, BC.

[music: glassy guitar riff]

Canada Day March

Guest: Nakuset

CH: Today is Canada Day. But this year, many people across the country don't feel like having a party. Over the past month-and-a-half, unmarked graves have been discovered at three former residential schools -- in Kamloops, Cowessess and a third site in BC. So instead of celebrating, Indigenous communities are mourning the lost children -- and organizing events of commemoration. One such event is the Honour Indigenous Children March in Montreal. Nakuset is the executive director of the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal, and she organized the march. We reached her on the route... and so you will hear some noise.

NK: Nakuset, you are in the middle of the march right now. Describe to our listeners where exactly you are and what is happening around you so they can visualize what you're experiencing?

NAKUSET: So, right now, I'm passing by the Rene Levesque and Beaver Hall. We're more sort of at the front. Someone said there's they estimated about 10,000 people are here. We're actually picking up two sides of the street.

NK: What are people saying? What is the energy you're feeling as you... as you lead this march?

N: You know, it's different because we have some really, really amazing speakers and singers. And, you know, when the speakers, you know, share, you know, there's a lot of emotion in that, and people are crying. And when the singers, you know, sing, they're singing songs about these children. So, again, it's a very emotional like a... but the whole point of this was so that people can release, you know, their pain in a safe manner. So that is definitely happening. But I would say that the mood from everyone is very much in solidarity and it's very peaceful. And, yeah, I'm incredibly pleased with it.

NK: I can feel I just got goosebumps as you were speaking because I can feel through the connection how electric and how emotional it is just by how you've described it. Is the crowd full of people from just Montreal?

N: I would say so. I mean, [a drum in the background] the good thing is people are really standing with us, walking with us. And this is so important. I mean, it's absolutely devastating what has happened that is being uncovered. And we know that there's so much… there's more coming. So, you know, I mean, the mood is [cheering in background] really, really awesome. You know, I'm standing right now in front of the march, and we have these beautiful banners that were made specifically for it. And then we have all the Indigenous drummers that are drumming. And then it's the rest of the group. And it's just like a sea of people. And that's what I wanted. I wanted a sea of orange. And I was lucky to get it. But, you know, at the end of the day, this needs to be acknowledged, and things need to change. It's not... I don't like it when people are like, oh, you should reflect about it. Reflect sounds too very, very short. We need actual depth, and we need pressure on the government. We need pressure on the churches to release the names. We need, you know, proper burials for these children. And we really want the... we... we want accountability. We want something like the Nuremberg trials. We want, you know, people to be accountable for what they've done because we are not, like, it's not open season on Indigenous people. But that seems to be sort of the... the... the idea. And that's happened basically since colonialism, right? Since the settlers arrived, they just sort of pushed us aside.

NK: Do you feel you're at a different point in this country now that... that all of the things you listed might actually happen now?

N: [drumming in background] Well, we can... you know, [cheering in background] it's hard to say. I would love it if that would happen, but I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. Is everyone going to be like, oh, I went for a march. That's all I need to do. I'm good. There needs to be more change. People need to, like, wake up tomorrow and call their politicians and ask them what they're doing about this? They need to go to their churches on Sunday and say, hey, how are you implicated in this? You know, there was a priest that, you know, a couple of weeks ago who went to, you know, his church and did an apology, but he did an apology to the... his parishioners. He didn't go to Kahnawá:ke and actually apologize to the people that are affected. So you need to make those steps with the community. And I think that, you know, we... we will welcome them. We'll welcome people back into the reservations where the mass graves are. We'll welcome the flowers. We'll welcome... but we also want, you know, something more concrete. And there are so many different ways that you can fight systemic discrimination. So you need to apply that. And if you're not applying that, then find out why.

NK: [drumming in background] How is what you're seeing and experiencing today, how do you feel about it in this moment? Is it... is it helping? Is it a catharsis for you?

N: You know, I'm just in sort of work mode, Right? My job is to make sure that everybody is safe in this march, that we're getting to the right place, that we have the right speakers there, that... that people are doing OK. We have a lot of volunteers. So I'm going to have to sort of figure out when I get home when this is all over to try to think about the day and measure it.

NK: What do you say to... to... to others who still want to... to let off fireworks, set off fireworks and things like that?

N: Well, you know, people can do whatever they want, right, at the end of the day. The thing is that if you're going to celebrate Canada Day, understand what you're celebrating. You're celebrating the oppression of Indigenous people. You're celebrating these mass graves. This is the actual history of Canada. So, you know, I guess there's always going to be a balance. But I think that if you have a clear idea about what Canada is and how there are, you know, hundreds and thousands of people that are in mourning, would you celebrate? When something terrible happens, like, you know, 9/11, you know, with the buildings coming down, was there celebration the next week? Did people do fireworks? No. So why do you think that, you know, our pain is not worthy of you choosing maybe another time to do fireworks?

NK: Are you seeing a mix of Indigenous and non-Indigenous people in that crowd? Do you feel a broader support?

K: There are so many non-Indigenous people. There's more non-Indigenous than Indigenous, and they are walking with us, and they're walking proudly. They have their banners. They even brought their own drums, and they're singing. It's incredible. I've never seen anything so amazing in my whole life. I mean, I've done a couple of, you know, protests before, but this is by far the best.

NK: After today, tomorrow, what does tomorrow look like for you?

K: I go to work. You know, I work at the Native Women's Shelter. I go to work, and I keep, you know, doing the work that I do. And of course, the work that I do stems from systemic discrimination. The women that, you know, go to the shelter were themselves either in residential school or their parents were. So you just keep doing… keep doing what you have to do. And I will continue to, you know, push the government in my own way. As a Cree woman, I'll do my best. But if everyone in this crowd did the same thing, oh, my God, we could move mountains.

NK: We so appreciate your time, Nakuset, and the work you're doing. Take care.

N: All right. Thanks. OK, bye.

CH: Nakuset organized the Honour Indigenous Children March in Montreal today. And we have more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: ambient]

WR Plastic Wrapped Partner

Guests: David Rush, Jennifer Rush

CH: The last time we spoke with David Rush, he'd done something unthinkable. In the sense that it was amazing, and in the sense that almost zero other people had ever thought of it. In one minute, the Idaho man sliced 68 grapes with a sword while standing on a balance board. Now, in that interview, David Rush thanked his friend, who threw grapes at him at super-speed. And he also thanked Jennifer Rush, his wife, for supporting his unusual hobby. Mr. Rush breaks Guinness World Records. A lot of them. He's closing in on 200. Now, the Rush family has taken on a new challenge together: breaking the record for the fastest time to wrap a person in plastic wrap. David did the wrapping. Jennifer did the being wrapped. We reached them both in Boise, Idaho.

NK: David, let me start with you. How quickly did you wrap Jennifer in plastic wrap last weekend?

DAVID RUSH: Well, it took a couple of years of practise and effort, but in the final attempt that actually count, it was one-minute, two-point-four-four seconds.

NK: questions that I never imagined asking anyone on the radio or otherwise. [NK and DR chuckle] But did you break the record at the end?

DR: Yes, we did.

NK: So how did it feel, Jennifer, to be covered from your neck to your toes in plastic wrap?

JENNIFER RUSH: It was really hot and humid. The saran wrap is quite constricting. And so I was definitely excited to be done -- and happy that we had achieved the record.

NK: And just to be clear, you were wearing clothes -- fully clothed -- and then the plastic rolled on top of that?

JR: Yes, exactly.

NK: And you were OK [chuckling] with David attempting this on you?

JR: [chuckling] Yes. We tried this one and successfully broke the record about two years ago. Since then, someone else had come in and taken it from us. And David and I support each other in all sorts of things. And this is one of the crazier, crazier ones, just me getting wrapped in saran wrap.

NK: You had to take your title back!

JR: We had to take it back!

NK: And how much did the time improve?

DR: I'm not sure Jennifer feels compelled the need to take the title back, but I certainly do. I'm kind of addicted to it.

NK: I hear you. How much did your time improve between that first time and this time?

DR: So the first time we did it two years ago, we made about a dozen attempts at it. And in the end, the previous record was a minute, 59 -- and we got to a minute, 57 after 12 attempts. This time, it took another, you know, 10 to 12 practise attempts plus official attempts. And so we almost took half the time off at this time based on thinking about how can we do this better, what's going to be more efficient and figure out a way to get that saran wrap on faster.

NK: So a lot of practice and planning, certainly, but there's a choreography to this as well. So what did you learn about the best way to wrap up the entire body?

JR: Well, David, you know, a lot of my thinking through while I was sleeping. I know he was practising a lot of it and running through the motions in his head to get the perfect strategy down for us.

DR: Yeah. And we practised over several different days. And so we'd give it a couple of attempts on one day, figure out what went wrong, what could go better? And so one of the... one of the first things is putting a little rod through the middle of the saran wrap so you can unwrap it real quickly while holding onto the rod that spins around it versus holding onto it the hand. And then the second big change you made is I started with her sitting down. So each leg has to be wrapped individually. So I started by wrapping a leg that was just hanging there in the air, stand up, switch to the other leg and stand up and then wrap the rest of the body.

NK: I'm just... I'm fascinated. My jaw [laughing] is on the table here. We're all looking at each other. How... how did you pull this off? You have to certify this now get it certified with Guinness. What if there were some holes in your wrapping job?

DR: There were actually holes in the wrapping jobs. And we had four or five attempts I thought we'd broken it, and we found a small little hole in the wrapping job. And so we... we're not going to submit those. And so this time, we very clearly and carefully inspected the entire body on a close-up camera. So you can see on camera close up there's absolutely no exposed skin or clothes underneath the saran wrap.

NK: How many roles did you have on standby? Are you... are you reusing one role?

JR: Yes. Usually behind the scenes, holding a stopwatch or filling out paperwork, making sure he's following all the guidelines. But I have had my hand in a few records as well, including helping him put on T-shirts, like most T-shirts, like stacked on top of the other -- most T-shirts, worn in 30 seconds and one minute. And then we practised around Valentine's Day to break one together: the fastest time to set up a chessboard, team of two. And we did that in about 32 seconds.

NK: Bravo! How do you come up with the ideas for this, David?

DR: You know, looking through the Guinness Book, their website, the YouTube videos. You know, I'm up to about 200 Guinness World Records broken now, not quite there. I'll make an announcement when I get there. [NK chuckles] But just reading through those and figuring, hey, I used to approach it with, you know, I'm a juggler, and I'm going to you're juggling ones and then balancing. And now, I approach it with a growth mindset, like literally, I could break any record there. What do I want to spend my time on, and what possibly might I need to spend less time on to break than others.

NK: And Jennifer, what's it like? I understand you guys met at MIT, what's it like now to have a husband with this unique record and this passion clearly for breaking more records?

JR: Well, I think he sets a great example for our boys that if you work hard and first do things and with a passion, that... he just sets a great, great message and is a great role model and example for our boys and all those around us. But it can definitely be a little quirky in some of the things that we have around our house. For example, I never would have expected things like Pogo sticks or lots of balloons, electric unicycles, unicycles.

NK: [chuckling] What do the boys think of all this?

JR: They love it. They want to be just like their dad. So they're practising their world records, and it's fun to watch.

NK: It's a house full of whimsy, serious whimsy.

JR: Yes. And they're two and five years old, so they don't know any better. They think the Guinness logo is mine. And my two-year-old's always trying to practise to break a Guinness World Record. He'll find a stopwatch, and he'll to press the button, and he'll try to do whatever he's doing as frantically as possible. But at two, you just don't have that fine motor control. So it's absolutely the cutest thing in the world to watch.

NK: [chuckling] The next generation. David, Jennifer, thank you so much for giving us something to smile and laugh about today. We appreciate it.

DR: Nil, it's been a pleasure.

JR: Thank you so much.

CH: That was David and Jennifer Rush in Boise, Idaho, after David wrapped Jennifer in cling film in 1 minute and 2-point-44 seconds.

[music: jazz]

M&M Stacking Record

CH: Easy… no. Eeeeasy....no. Eeeeasy...eeeeasy...no. Eeeeasy NO. You know what?! Forget it! [slams table] Okay, so here's the news: some guy did a stupid thing that's impossible, and I don't even care. Okay? I’m sorry. I don't mean that. I just -- I thought I could break the Guinness World Record for stacking M&Ms, right now, on the air. But apparently I lack two things: fingers that aren't idiots, and -- easy, NO [table slam] -- patience. Will Cutbill, though? Of Solihull, England? Has both of the above. Especially patience. And when you hear about the record he set, you will be surprised. If you've never tried to stack M&Ms, you'll be surprised it's so low. If you have tried to stack M&Ms, you'll be as surprised as if he'd stacked them to the height of Mount Everest. Here's the sound from a video montage of many, many attempts, culminating in triumph. And since this is a video from the people at Guinness, it has unnecessary and overloud music.

SOUNDCLIP

[music: really tense, royalty-free music]

WILL CUTBILL: All right, this is going to be harder than I first thought. [long pause and some clickity clacks] That’s quite good! Four! Oh no, noooo! [a gasp] Five M&Ms!!! Five M&Ms!!

CH: Yes, Will Cutbill stacked five M&Ms -- shattering the previous record of four. If that doesn't seem like much, try it yourself and see if you can do it without blowing your stack.

[music: pop beat]

Part 2: Karen Kain Retires

Karen Kain Retires

Guest Karen Kain

CH: For the first time today, Karen Kain steps -- gracefully, as always -- into the role of Artistic Director Emeritus with Canada's National Ballet. Ms. Kain retired yesterday, after sixteen years in the role of a lifetime. And for her, that's saying a lot. The longtime ballerina took over the company back in 2005, just as it was moving into its new home at Toronto's Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts. And as she told "As It Happens" host Mary Lou Finlay at the time, that move mirrored some of the moves she planned to make as its Artistic Director.

SOUNDCLIP

KAREN KAIN: Well, you know, what it is going to do, I believe, is provide a better experience for the audience and for the artists. And that can only help make people love the art form more and support it more. I mean, if the experience is really tremendous. And, unfortunately, in the venue where we have been all these years, a multipurpose venue, the experience wasn't good for anybody who didn't have an expensive ticket. And I feel in the new house everyone should have a good experience. Even if they're in the top balcony at the back, they will be close enough to the stage they will be able to see the expressions on the dancers faces and hear the music properly and really have the experience that they should have to see this art form.

CH: Karen Kain, speaking with Mary Lou Finlay on "As It Happens" in June 2005, on the day of her appointment as the Artistic Director of the National Ballet of Canada. Today, she becomes its Artistic Director Emeritus. We reached Ms. Kain in Toronto.

NK: Ms. Kain, what is it like to hear that all these years later, that bit of your conversation with Mary Lou Finley in 2005?

KK: Well, of course, I still believe everything I said then. And of course, the experience that we've all had, audience and artists in the Four Seasons Centre for the Arts has really helped raise the look and feel and sound of our art form tremendously. So... and we have found ways to make it more accessible and to, you know, have ticket prices sometimes available at lower cost. But I wish... I wish we could do better on… on the pricing, but I don't think we can afford to do what we do if we... if we go much lower on the ticket prices.

NK: You were able to... to make free programming available to many, many children, as I understand it, reduced rates for... for people under 30 as well, right?

KK: Yes. Yes. No, we have a number of programs that we... that we do to help people gain accessibility to our art form. And I'm very proud of those. And those will continue for sure -- when we get back. [laughing]

NK: Yes, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. One of your other big goals when you took over as artistic director was to take the National Ballet to the world.

KK: Yes. And we were... we were doing quite well on that dream of mine. We managed to get to Washington with Rudolf Nureyev's Sleeping Beauty before that... just before the pandemic. We had plans to take it to London and be at the Royal Opera House, which I was so excited about. And I think I hope that will happen in the future. It's a you know, it's a very expensive thing to take a company of our size and scale. But, you know, to showcase what Canada has in the National Ballet of Canada. So the world has always been a real priority for me. And we have managed to do it, not to the extent that I would like to. But as I say, it's... it's a very expensive thing to do. But hopefully, in the future, we will appear at the Royal Opera House with the Sleeping Beauty, as we were supposed to do. But then the pandemic came, so.

NK: I can hear that... that longing and a bit of regret in your voice. There's still more to do. There's still more you want to do. So how did you... how did you adjust when the pandemic hit?

KK: Well, like everyone, you know, you... you deal. You deal with the reality of what's going on, and you understand why things are happening the way they are. And everyone has to accept that life is different and that we have to be careful and that we can't do what we love to do. But I have great optimism about the future, and we're such a great institution. And in my career, I felt like I was the flag bearer as I danced all over Europe with different companies and had all these opportunities. But people hardly knew about the National Ballet of Canada. And it just made me [chuckle] really upset that they didn't know the calibre of the company that we have in this country. And we have other great companies in this country as well. But people are, it seems, in other parts of the world, they're quite unaware of the Canadian arts. So I have always been very ambitious to showcase the National Ballet internationally, and I continue to be.

NK: one of the things I've certainly noticed as a spectator just in the last couple of years, in particular, a shift in the diversity in the company, an increase in the diversity, change in body types as well. At what point did you start having those conversations that... that there needed perhaps to be a shift, as we've seen in other... in other art forms, but also in the ballet in particular outside of Canada as well?

KK: Quite frankly, there weren't conversations in the beginning. And our company is very, very diverse. But that was because the talent turned up and auditioned and wanted to be part of the National Ballet of Canada. It wasn't... in the beginning, it wasn't... it wasn't conscious, it was I... you look at talent the way you look at talent. And what is wonderful is that more people of colour are seeing themselves as ballet dancers, and they're doing the training, and they're coming and auditioning. And so we have the opportunity to hire a much more diverse company because... because they're there because they're talented because they're trained, and they and they see themselves on the stage with our company. So they know that they can come and be accepted. And I'm very proud of how diverse the National Ballet of Canada is and will be, yeah.

NK: I know that, you know, I know that you wanted to be a dancer from a very young age, and you joined the National Ballet as a dancer in 1969. But did Karen Kain, the ballerina, ever imagine or dream that she would become artistic director?

KK: No, [laughing] no, never for a moment. I was just so, you know, from the time I was at Canada's National Ballet School when I was 11 years old, till I graduated and I joined the National Ballet of Canada, my life was being a dancer. Every second I was involved and loving every minute of it. And I never... it never crossed my mind that someday I would be the artistic director, no.

NK: In a piece about your retirement, Ms. Kain for The Hamilton Spectator, Gary Smith talked about an interview with you from the 1980s. And at that time, you were struggling with self-doubt and perfectionism. What stands out to you now as you think back on those years?

KK: Well, they were very tough. And in those years, I did... I got sort of famous very quickly. And there was a lot of feeling that I didn't really deserve all the acclaim I was getting. And I didn't. In those days, we didn't have anyone to talk to about those kinds of feelings. And they affected my dancing. They affected my... my health and my mental health. And so, I had quite a struggle with my self-confidence because I thought I was getting so much acclaim that I didn't really deserve. [chuckling] I didn't really understand why I had so much attention on me. And yet, you know, of course, part of me loved it and appreciated it. And the other part of me was doubting all the time that I deserved it. So, you know, I went for help. I… I sought professional help for my mental health. And it really served me well and helped me fulfil my potential as a dancer, as a performer and... and eventually as an artistic director.

NK: It's so powerful to... to hear someone in your position who I think many people would look at as... as an example of perfection, certainly on the stage. So for people to hear that... that you reached out and got help and that helped fuel the rest of your career, I think, is... is incredibly powerful. And I suspect that also your experiences informed the kind of artistic director you became because, you know, I was watching the tribute tape that your colleagues put together for you. And more than one pointed out, you know, that it was a different kind of environment, an accepting environment. And certainly, many portrayals of the ballet don't... don't portray the art form in that way.

KK: That's true. But it really is changing. It really is changing. You know, there's new generations of artistic directors everywhere, and we want to take the best possible care we can of our dancers, both physically and mentally. You know, we didn't have any of that when I was a young dancer. So I was really determined that we would have, you know, physiotherapists and... and massage therapists and... and mental health therapists available to our dancers if they needed it. Because nobody can do their best if they're struggling in any way, physically or emotionally. And I learned that the hard way. And I wanted it to be better for this generation.

NK: When we talk about the pandemic and the dark and difficult times of this pandemic. Dancers, you know, the determination, discipline that you've talked about before in your career every day is about practice and performing. And when you can't do that, how do you go on?

KK: Well, you know, my heart actually breaks for this generation who've lost a year out of their careers in an already very, very short career. And they've been troopers. They've been working... you know, the National Ballet of Canada sent all our dancers a piece of linoleum, you know, sort of six by eight, I can't remember the exact dimensions. So they could do their exercises and not slip in their apartment and do their bars and keep training. And... and they all did. You know, they... they all... they know that... that it's going to get better eventually. And they know that they're going to be on the stage again. And they're very motivated. And now they have been back in the studios working, of course, socially distanced with all the protocols in place. And we have... we have done some small performances with small groups to be filmed virtually. So they have been... there has been some work going on with them, for them. But still, in many ways, it's a lost year. It's not the same as being in your, you know, top physical condition and performing and having all that feedback and all that. You know, it's been very hard for them. And, you know, it's broken my heart that they have to go through it. But they're wonderful people. They're very resilient. They're all ready to go as soon as they're able. And, you know, we're really hoping that we're back in the Four Seasons Centre starting in the fall. And, you know, we have a plan, and the dancers know that the future looks much, much brighter. So I think everyone's feeling very positive that we'll get through this just fine.

NK: It's… it's the last stretch, we hope.

KK: Yes.

NK: in terms of the financial aspect of this for the National Ballet, what kind of an impact has that had, and how do you come back from that?

KK: Well, it has had, you know, a significant impact. But I have to tell you, the people that love the National Ballet of Canada have been so generous. And they've helped us be able to, you know, pay for the virtual filming, to be able to outfit our studios so that we have better lighting and everything so that we could actually film properly. We needed equipment. We needed to pay filmmakers. The dancers have... have been paid throughout the pandemic, the... the, you know, everyone else has had a pay cut, you know, and everybody did it willingly and happily. The National Ballet will come through this really well. Again, because of the generosity of the people that love the company and support the company. And the government has helped us also. You know, we... were really lucky to live in this country, honestly, in every way.

NK: When you became artistic director, you told us on this program that there was a succession plan in place at that point, unbeknownst to you, what can you tell us about what is going to come for that role? Was there a similar plan in place?

KK: Well, I can tell you that there has been a very robust search for the next artistic director and that the National Ballet will be making an announcement in the... in the future

NK: in the next five seconds, maybe? [both laughing]

KK: Oh, sorry. [chuckling] It's not my announcement to make!

NK: We'll... we'll certainly look out for that. But, you know, I will say that phrase again that you've mentioned, determination and discipline. How do you channel that? Where do you focus that energy now as you become Artistic Director Emeritus?

KK: Well, I will be back in the studio with the dancers for certain repertoire. I still have the new Swan Lake to look forward to next June. So I'll be working with the company at various times all year. And I'm honestly so excited about just being able to focus, to work on working with people in the studio and preparing the new Swan Lake and overseeing elite syncopations and, you know, the kind of work that I really love to do. And I'm looking forward to welcoming the new artistic director and supporting them in any way I can.

NK: And you mentioned the new Swan Lake that you've been working on. It is such an iconic ballet, and it's important to you to put... put a fresh stamp on it, your own stamp. What can audiences expect?

KK: Well, you know, I was totally inspired and loved the original version of Swan Lake that was premiered at Expo 70 with Eric Bruhn. And he... he was the choreographer of it. And it was very radical. It was the most radical Swan Lake, probably anywhere at that time. And Eric Bruhn was a fantastic dancer, Danish dancer, and he was also the artistic director of the National Ballet of Canada for a short time, unfortunately. But he was one of my idols, and I loved his production of Swan Lake. As I said, it was radical, it was different, it was very moving in many ways. The dramatic momentum of the work was really inspiring to me and to audiences. So it's the ballet that I love... I love the most. It's the ballet that I made my debut when I was 19 years old. And I... it was something that I really wanted to do. And I'm really looking forward to having the opportunity to do that. And it'll premiere next… a year from June, yeah.

NK: I'm looking forward to watching it. Ms. Kain, thank you so much for your time.

KK: Not at all. Thank you so much. Thank you.

CH: As of today, Karen Kain is the Artistic Director Emeritus of the National Ballet of Canada. We reached her in Toronto.

[music: bright piano]

Cosby Freed

CH: After serving less than three years in prison, Bill Cosby is free. Yesterday, the U.S. comedian was released after Pennsylvania's top court overturned the conviction that found him guilty of drugging and sexually assaulting Andrea Constand. The court said there had been a process violation and pointed to an agreement with a previous district attorney saying Mr. Cosby would not be criminally prosecuted, allowing him to testify in a separate civil case without incriminating himself. Patricia Leary Steuer has said Mr. Cosby drugged and assaulted her. She told CNN how she was reacting to the overturned conviction.

SOUNDCLIP

PATRICIA LEARY STEUER: Well, I'm sad, and I'm feeling like this is a loss for me and for the other women who came forward. There were more than 63 of us who came forward in the end. I'm wondering what the purpose was of the 43 years of this ordeal and the trauma, the trauma that I had and the trauma that my family endured as a result? And I'm comforted that we did the best we could because we came forward and told the truth. In the end, that was the only power we had in this situation. I'm also angry that the laws and the system is devised in such a way that it favours powerful and wealthy people in this particular instance, a powerful and wealthy man, and that needs to change.

HOST: Do you worry that this decision will discourage other sexual assault survivors from coming forward?

PLS: It took me 25 years to come forward, John, because the people I asked about coming forward said no one would believe me. And these are people that loved me and cared about me. But his public image was such that they didn't believe it would make any difference. And I lived with great resignation and despair about that. And I know other sexual assault survivors do as well. I hope this won't discourage people. It's a message of... it is a discouraging message to sexual survivors. I hope it won't, because, in the end, all you can do is come forward and tell the truth.

HOST: I want to get your reaction to what Bill Cosby ended up saying tonight in a tweet. He said I've never changed my stance or my story. I've always maintained my innocence. Thanks you to all my fans, supporters and friends who stood by me through this ordeal. Special thanks to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court for upholding the rule of law. That's Bill Cosby's statement. How does that make you feel?

PLS: Well, I think because of the technicalities and what the other attorneys have said on your show, this was a correct decision because of the technical legal reasons involved. Regarding his innocence, I know the truth. The other 62 women and Andrea Constand know the truth. We had no desire to be in the spotlight for this reason. Believe me when I say that to you. This is not a reason a woman would want to be in the spotlight.

CH: That was Patricia Leary Steuer speaking to CNN. Bill Cosby has said his sexual encounters were consensual.

[music: indie rock]

Below Zero Machine

CH: The world could definitely do without the Below Zero machine, but you have to admit the inventor did a ice job of it and now anyone can create their own frozen pick me up. That could also be a frozen knock you flat. All you need is some hooch, some creativity, and seven or eight thousand dollars. For years, Illinois caterer Will Rogers has been working on the nonproblem of freezing booze. And now, through the magic of science and a mysterious patented gel, his Below Zero machine can turn any alcoholic beverage into adults-only ice cream. And this is the part that has eluded scientists going back to Archimedes, I assume: the alcohol content stays the same. Hence the company tagline, lick your liquor. Ew! The beverage, be it beer or bourbon, must first be degassed. Then the patented gel is added, which Mr. Rogers explains bear hugs the alcohol itself and turns it into ice cream. And roughly 30 minutes later, you're serving up soft serve that is hard. A lot of us have bear-hugged alcohol, and it never turned into ice cream. But if you really want to get brain freeze from two scoops of frozen tequila, I guess you will overlook his cryptic explanation. And that's fine as long as you're prepared to live with the cone-sequences.

July 01, 2021 Episode Transcript