Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2023

The AIH transcript for January 27, 2023

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens."

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

NK: A city on edge. As Memphis absorbs the release of body cam footage showing the late Tyree Nichols being brutally beaten by police, the head of the local NAACP tells us there is a clear picture of a police culture that needs to change.

CH: Beheading Meduza. Russian authorities crackdown further on the independent news source Meduza -- making it a crime to give their journalists interviews or share their stories. But the editor tells us the Kremlin hasn't stopped them yet.

NK: Handled with care. A nurse in the Northwest Territories is being remembered for the quality of the care she provided. A colleague tells us. Martha Codner, known as “The Cod”, showed what our healthcare system could be.

CH: Living to tell. We'll hear from the Winnipeggers, believed to be the oldest siblings to have survived the Holocaust -- on the joyous occasion of the eldest 101st birthday.

NK: The hostess with the von mostest. You assume she said the coolest things are the coolest gatherings. Now, boxes of Joan Didion's writing, including dinner party plans, have been acquired by the New York Public Library. So all you'll need is a library card to prove it.

CH: And… born to be rewilded. A new study examines why emus went extinct in Tasmania and finds that if some humans can just be persuaded, it might be a great time for some of them to stage a comeback.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that figures if a few emus try it out first, others will emu-late them.

Part 1: Tyree Nichols Bodycam Video, Martha Codner Obit, Joan Didion Papers

Tyree Nichols Bodycam Video

Guest: Van Turner

CH: The five former police officers who arrested Tyre Nichols are now facing charges themselves. And with the release of bodycam footage tonight, the city of Memphis -- and the entire U.S. -- are now facing the reality of how brutal that arrest was. The 29-year-old Black man was beaten and died after police arrested him in a traffic stop in Memphis earlier this month. The five ex-officers, who are also Black, have been charged with second-degree murder, aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping, official misconduct, and official oppression. Mr. Nichol's mother, RowVaughn Wells, spoke about that bodycam footage.

SOUNDCLIP

ROWVAUGHN WELLS: I've never seen the video, but what I've heard is very horrific. Very horrific. And I still haven't had time to grieve. I'm still dealing with the death of my son. This was not supposed to happen. My son was supposed to be with me today. My son loved me to death. And I loved him to death. No mother should go through what I'm going through right now. No mother.

CH: RowVaughn Wells, the mother of the late Tyre Nichols, speaking to reporters today. Van Turner is the president of the Memphis Branch of the NAACP and a candidate for mayor. We reached him in Memphis earlier today, before the video was released.

NK: Van, you were with Ms. Wells and others at the news conference earlier today. How is the family feeling about the fact that this footage is going to be made public?

VAN TURNER: Yeah, I think they're fine with it. They've asked for transparency. And they know that it will be painful to watch, but they know that is a mandatory thing to do because they know that this is the only way that they can get justice for Tyree and prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future. It has to be exposed.

NK: Have you watched it, sir?

VT: No, not yet. So, I'll watch the tape when it releases to the public. They just told us to brace ourselves because it's very brutal.

NK: Some folks are just learning about this case in the last few days. We know it's been, you know, going through the legal channels for… for several weeks now. But as people learn about what happened, can you just briefly, sir, tell us what exactly happened in early January? There was a traffic stop. How did that go so horribly wrong?

VT: Well, I think it was a traffic stop, and there was excessive force used first. And then I think Tyree may have gotten away from the first encounter, and they tracked him down again, and they used excessive force on him for the second time. And so, that's likely what we can expect to see later on this evening.

NK: Yeah. And we should stress already at very high levels, the director of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said he was sickened by… by this incident. The police chief of Memphis, she describes it as horrific and that she does expect people to feel outrage when they see it. So, at the very high levels already, there are clear admissions that this should never have happened. But what are you anticipating tonight?

VT: You know, I think that the protests will be peaceful. Obviously, there are outside elements which may seek to disrupt the peaceful protest, but overall, I think the protests will be peaceful, and the message will be heard loud and clear that the type of beating and death that Terry Nichols endured has to stop.

NK: When we talk about the Memphis Police Department, they have made significant changes, you know, eliminating no-knock warrants. Officers are supposed to use de-escalation strategies and intervene if they see others using excessive force. Those are just a couple of the changes. So how do you explain what has unfolded here?

VT: It is just a failure on all levels. It is inexcusable. It is brutal, and it is criminal, and it's murder. So, although we put rules in place and protocols in place. You know, they were violated.

NK: Mr. Crump, the lawyer who was also at the news conference, talked about an institutionalized police culture, whether the officers are white or, as they were in this case, Black. That's the message he and others, including yourself, I believe, were stressing at that news conference. What do you think needs to change?

VT: That's something that is dictated by the veterans on the force, and the leadership is in place. Somewhere, somehow, these officers felt that this was an appropriate thing to do and that they could possibly get away with it. And that culture has to change. And I think that comes from leadership. And that comes with matching veteran officers who are good officers with the officers who are new to the force. This is no condemnation of other officers that are doing a good job, who don't abuse their authority. But the ones that do, and if they do so egregiously, then that has to be addressed, and we have to figure out a way to stop this from occurring in the future.

NK: These officers, if I'm not mistaken, joined the force between 2017 and 2020. Is that right?

VT: That's correct.

NK: So, relatively new to the force. Ms. Wells has said originally, police told her not to go to the hospital. Is that your understanding as well?

VT: Yes.

NK: Why is that?

VT: Well, I mean, I think that they were perhaps trying to cover up. And they were perhaps trying to indicate to her in some indirect way that her son was in such a bad state she probably couldn't stand and look at him. It's just devastating. You know, Tyree's face was swollen. His body was brutalized. He bled out. And it was just… it was just horrendous.

NK: She was able to go to the hospital, though. Is that right?

VT: Yes.

NK: So, she was able to spend some time with her son.

VT: She was. Yeah.

NK: We're going to hear a lot about, and see a lot about, how Tyree Nichols… how his life ended. But I wanted to ask if you could tell me what you've learned about how he lived? Who he was?

VT: Yeah, from what I can tell, he was just an all-around free-loving, free-spirited good guy. He was a skateboarder. He was a photographer. He worked at FedEx as a driver. He stayed with his parents. And, you know, you would not get the sense from how he lived that he was a threat. You just get the sense that this guy was trying to get home. And in doing so, he lost his life. We have to still fight for justice. So we can't forget what occurred to him. And that should inspire us to demand justice for Tyree and to keep fighting for change.

NK: He was 29 years old. A four-year-old son he, leaves behind as well. When you say justice for Tyree, what would justice look like for you?

VT: A Tyree Nichols Bill that memorializes in state law the duty to intervene. Obviously, the failure was the excessive force. But perhaps the more egregious act was those officers standing by and allowing it to happen and watching it happen and those officers not intervening. And so, that is justice, the Tyree Nichols Duty to Intervene Act. And this is legislation that needs to get done.

NK: Van, thank you very much for your time.

VT: Thank you.

CH: Van Turner is the president of the Memphis Branch of the NAACP and a candidate for mayor in Memphis, which is where we reached him earlier today.

[music: classic rock]

Martha Codner Obit

Guest: Courtney Howard

CH: She didn't just "do no harm": in her long career as a nurse in Yellowknife, Martha Codner did a huge amount of good. Ms. Codner died last week at the age of 67. She was a legend in the Yellowknife hospital, where she worked for nearly 40 years. Over which time, she routinely amazed patients by remembering their names -- and by diagnosing many of them at a glance. Here is Martha Codner talking to CBC North after her retirement in 2016.

SOUNDCLIP

MARTHA CODNER: If you can alleviate the fear of a child just by your presence, or your caring and comforting, that's a job done right there, right? I recall walking into a local establishment from when I was working casual on the pediatric floor. The person said hello, and I turned to the person and said, do I know you? And she brought up that when she was a small child on the pediatric floor, homesick, that I took away her fears of being away from her family. That stuck with me and has stuck with me since. And those things are rewarding, very rewarding to know that you have made a difference. It's the most rewarding job that I think that anybody could choose. When you can make a difference and help somebody, whether it be minute or major, it's rewarding. You don't have to have a thank you. You just walk away, and you say, a job well done.

CH: That was Yellowknife nurse Martha Codner talking to the CBC in 2016. The well-known hospital caregiver -- known by the nickname "The Cod" -- died last week, at the age of 67. Courtney Howard is a Yellowknife emergency department doctor who worked with Martha Codner. We reached her today in Oxford, England, where she's studying for the year.

NK: Courtney, to hear Martha's voice today, what does it conjure for you?

COURTNEY HOWARD: Just, you know, I'm tearing up a little bit as I listen. And I'm glad that she had those thoughts in her head that she was thinking to herself that she had presented us all with a job well done because that is certainly how we feel about the contribution she's made to our community in the north.

NK: It's the first time I'm hearing Martha Codner's voice, and instantly, you know, from… from the gravel in her voice, but the sincerity and the emotion, I feel like I know… I know her already. That's really who she was every day, day in, day out?

COURTNEY HOWARD: Absolutely. She would sit down with people and be utterly present with them. And not in a I just did yoga and learned how to be present kind of way. That was just her instinct in terms of how to treat people. And so, she would take the time, she would listen, and she was really good at knowing how to set people at ease. So sometimes, you know, that's quiet listening. Sometimes she would make a salty joke and get them laughing. And when she did that, you know, people remember. I was… I mean, surprised, but not surprised. They put a little tribute to her on Facebook a week ago. And the number of people who have commented and said that they remember her from when they were little, or that she was absolutely key to when they were going through a difficult mental health crisis, that they remembered her always. She really had an impact on the northern community through that compassion and those connections she had with people.

NK: And from what I've been reading, those connections she remembered too, to the point where it would help in a diagnosis if someone had been from the same family as someone she'd seen before. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

COURTNEY HOWARD: Yeah. She had an incredible memory. She could find anyone's parents when someone needed help. Sometimes people come into the emerge and they've just, you know, had a bad accident in a car. Or if someone found them on the street and they don't have I.D. on them. And we would bring her into the trauma room, say, hey Martha, who is this? And she would know, and she would be able to find their parents. She'd either be able to track down their phone number or find it on Facebook. And that matters, you know, when someone's in trouble to be able to find their family and get them to the bedside. The fact that she could remember people and their names meant that, in fact, she carried the medical history of half of the territory in her head. So, I remember sitting next to her at the old hospital one day, and we were at the desk. And in the time it took a nurse to bring someone in, she was sitting there, and she said, huh, that's so-and-so. His mother had a heart arrhythmia when she was about the age he is now. He looks a bit short of breath. I wonder if he has atrial fibrillation. And I went into the room, and he had atrial fibrillation, and he never had it before. And so, we came the call that the "Cod Scan". You know, Martha Codner, the Cod Scan. [NK chuckles] And she was quite often right.

NK: It's extraordinary. And clearly, beyond empathy and being a kind person. She was… she was excellent at her job as a nurse, technically speaking.

COURTNEY HOWARD: Yeah, she was extremely smart. And, you know, in a different generation with more opportunity, she absolutely, you know, would have been a doctor, would have been, you know, someone with… with more power over the healthcare system. But, you know, at that time, it was tough for people to get into med school when they're women. And she made the most of it by teaching all of us. So, what was special about her practice, this ability to really be just utterly with people in the moments. You know, she would cry with people if they had a diagnosis, and they got teary, and it really landed with her. She would come back to the desk and be still processing that emotionally. But I think that because she valued that part of her practice and she knew it was really important to people, even when the system wasn't giving her the feedback that it is important to stay and really be present with people. Because really, there's a lot of pressure in healthcare to go quickly. And it takes almost digging your heels in and saying, no, this is important to keep that openness and keep that humanity. And it just makes me wonder, at this moment of strain for healthcare, how can we build our system to make it easier for more people to provide Martha-like compassion in their care?

NK: Well, I was going to ask you that next as well because we've certainly done so much reporting and had many conversations on this program about just how strained the healthcare system is right across this country. You know, is it even possible for nurses, in particular, to provide the Cod Scan level of care right now?

COURTNEY HOWARD: Well, I think there's… there's individual level choices we can make. And then, there's things that the system either facilitates or makes more difficult. And so, the things that really made Martha special were the fact that she was really, really there with people. She sat down with them; she made eye contact, she listened. That's a choice that we can all make as providers. You know, it doesn't take any longer to look someone in the eye and ask a question than it does to sort of have one eye on the clock. So, that's… that's a thing that I could do during my next shift and make sure I do well. I think it will also help if we don't always rely on somebody's internal voice, but also congratulate our colleagues. You know, say, hey, I could see how much of a difference you made to that little one when you managed to make them laugh when we had to take the Lego out of his nose. Because I remember Martha at one point, she taught me… we had a little guy with Lego in his nose.

NK: Oh no!

COURTNEY HOWARD: And she got a pillowcase, and she asked the little guy but who's your favourite superhero? I think he said Superman. And so, she got out a black marker, and she drew a big "S" on the pillowcase, and then she asked him to put both of his arms in behind him into the pillowcase so he couldn't actually move his arms. But she was just like, now you've got your cape on. And he laid down, and we just reached in, and he was like all proud of his cape. We reached in, grabbed that Lego. She sat him up. She was like, all right, jump off Superman! [NK chuckles] And so, the whole thing went so well. And so, the thing is that, you know, I think sometimes we think that there's a false efficiency in treating people in sort of a conveyor belt manner. But… but it really doesn't work like that. People can tell when you're not listening to them. So when… when you when you really take the time to put them at ease. So, I think that there's a lot of systems-level reasons, as well as totally humane reasons, why we can treat people like this.

NK: And just before we let you go, Courtney, I know in the Northwest Territories, they're looking for a new name for the hospital. Martha's name has certainly been put forward. How do you think she'd feel about that?

COURTNEY HOWARD: Oh, I think she would feel really, really honoured that it's… it's even… you know, that it's being discussed. And I would hope that it would give her a sense to have been nominated. I know several people have already put her name in. You know, to give her one more reason to… to sort of look down, nod, and say, you know, that was a job well done.

NK: Courtney, thank you so much for sharing your memories of Martha with us. Again, I'm sorry for your loss.

COURTNEY HOWARD: Thank you.

CH: Courtney Howard is a former colleague of well-known Yellowknife emergency room nurse Martha Codner. We reached her in Oxford, England. Ms. Codner died last week at age 67.

[music: ambient]

Joan Didion Papers

Guest: Julie Golia

CH: The late Joan Didion fascinated people. That fascination began with her writing -- which combined a spare, elegant prose style with rigour and deep research to create classic non-fiction like The White Album and The Year of Magical Thinking. But people were also fascinated by her life with husband, and fellow author, John Gregory Dunne. They were famous for throwing impossibly glamourous house parties and dinners that brought together rock stars, intellectuals, and artists. And now, for those who hung on every word Didion and Dunne wrote, there are a lot more words to hang on. Hundreds of boxes full of words. Yesterday, the New York Public Library announced that it had acquired the couple's papers -- including years of manuscripts, photographs, research materials and, of course, dinner invitations. And they'll soon be accessible to anyone in New York with a library card. Julie Golia is an archivist with the New York Public Library. We reached her in Manhattan.

NK: Well, Julie, the news is out now. The world knows that the New York Public Library has this archives. You've already had some time, I'm a little bit jealous, to take a look at this collection. Can you give us just a snapshot of the scale of it?

JULIE GOLIA: It's a large collection; over 200 record cartons of materials. So, I got to get my hands a little bit dirty, but lots more to continue to see. It's an incredibly moving collection. And really covers, particularly, Didion's life literally from her birth. We have, you know, her baby footprint all the way into her death.

NK: It's so incredible. All of the detail, as you mentioned. What are some of the items specifically that… that you were most excited to see but that you're excited for… for the public to see?

JG: There are probably too many things to mention here that I'm excited for the people to see. But a couple of things stand out. First of all, Joan Didion was an absolutely remarkable dinner party thrower. She kept, sort of almost religiously, binders and binders of recipes, guest lists. These were sensory experiences filled with, you know, conversation and the careful pairing of food and ambience. And I think it's going to be fascinating to see the way that scholars explore that part of her life and the way that it affected and shaped her ideas.

NK: I saw an image of a letter from Tom Wolfe on Chateau Marmont talking about that bicoastal life that you describe, Chateau Marmont letterhead, thanking them for one of those dinner parties, and specifically talking about how great the chicken was.

JG: It's a splendid chicken dish. [NK chuckles] And I will also say, you know, we have the Tom Wolfe papers here at the New York Public Library. And so, as we were looking through the materials, as soon as I picked up that letter, I didn't even need to read it to know who… who had written it because his handwriting is, you know, so special.

NK: The chicken was in all caps. He really liked the chicken. [JG laughs] unpressed flowers from Tennessee Williams. So… so much texture to lives incredibly well-lived, clearly. There's also some correspondence with John Wayne, the late actor.

JG: One of the things I think is so wonderful about Didion's sort of analysis of American culture is her interest in the highbrow, the middlebrow and everything… the lowbrow and everything in between. She was a consummate Californian and had a true fascination with the frontier. And John Wayne, in many ways, embodied that for her. And this wonderful exchange of letters, this kind of mutual admiration between the two of them, was both, I think, intellectually powerful and also very touching to read.

NK: As journalists, we're fascinated by much of her work and her writing, you know, chronicling hippies in California. But what I was also struck in… in The New York Times article about this archive that you're going through, about her writing about the young men who have since been… you know, they were wrongly convicted in the Central Park jogger rape case, all those young men. And as she was chronicling that case, she was… she was making notes. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

JG: Sure. I would say the early part of Didion's career was very taken up with the cultural and considering sort of this experience of counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s. By the time we move into the eighties and nineties, her work takes on, I would say, a much more explicitly political bent. And she took on the Central Park jogger case. And what you really see in her research record is a remarkable skepticism, and included in the collection are copies of the confessions later proven to be false by the Central Park Five with her annotations all over them. And you're really looking in real-time at an incredibly thoughtful and discerning reporter questioning what would later prove to be untrue.

NK: You talked about the… the personal parts of this archive. And when we think about Joan Didion, particularly in the later years of her life, she experienced deep, deep loss, not only losing her husband, John Gregory Dunne, but her daughter, Quintana Roo. What does the archive tell you about their relationship and that loss?

JG: When we think about archives, we often are trying to put things into categories. This is where the personal materials go. This is where the research materials go. This is going to be a very difficult job for us because these things blur together. And so much of this archive are personal remembrances, incredibly beautiful things, handwritten notes and photographs from Quintana. To Joan Didion, these are personal items. They were also research material for Didion. This is all part of her process of reflection and memoir writing during this moment of her life, where she is considering deeply the experience and meaning of grief after not one but two tragic losses within less than two years of each other. So, I think this is actually one of the things I find so powerful about this collection is that even the happy times, even the halcyon days, are part of this process of evolution and loss and eventual grief that… that fuel what I think is probably the most important period, the most important season, of her career.

NK: The magical part of a library, wherever it is, this one in New York City, is that anyone with a library card has access to these treasures and books and archives. Is that going to be the case with this archive?

JG: This is… of course, this is going to be the case with this archive. This is, to me, one of the great blessings of having this collection at the New York Public Library is that we want to invite seasoned researchers to look at it, of course. But we also want to create new researchers with such a stunning collection.

NK: The key word, though, is look at them. You're not using your library card to check out these treasures, right? Just want to underline that because we know people like the Joan Didion stuff.

JG: [laughing] Nothing may come home. Nothing may go home with people, but they will read them very securely in our reading room at the 42nd Street library.

NK: Julie, I'm so glad we had a chance to speak. Thank you very much.

JG: Thank you.

CH: Julie Golia is an archivist with the New York Public Library. We reached her in Manhattan.

[music: jazz]

Part 2: Meduza Outlawed, Emu Encore

Meduza Outlawed

Guest: Galina Timchenko

CH: "Undesirable". That's the label Russian authorities have slapped on Meduza. Meduza is an independent Russian-language news source operated by journalists who fled Russia almost a decade ago, and now operate out of Latvia. A new order from the Russian General Prosecutor's office effectively bans Meduza, and makes anyone who works with the outlet vulnerable to prosecution -- with punishments ranging from fines, to up to six years in prison. The "undesirable" designation follows a move last year that severely cut into the operation's funding from within Russia. Galina Timchenko is Meduza's executive editor. We reached her in Riga, Latvia.

NK: Your job was already difficult, Galina. And now, you know, yesterday, the Russian General Prosecutor's office labelling Meduza a, quote, threat to the foundations of Russian order and security. [GT] You laugh there, I can tell. How do you keep laughing when there are such serious pressures on you?

GALINA TIMCHENKO: You now, where there are strange guys, we are… I call it negative thinkers because from the very beginning, from 2014 when we launched Meduza, we expected that some day, Russian authorities could block us and could give us any strange status, disgusting status. And, you know, this expecting is much more harmful than the event itself. It was just a matter of time. Yeah, unfortunately, it's… it's very tough because it is illegal to give us any comments, to give us interview, to contribute to us. And all of these is the Russian authorities consider as a collaboration with an undesirable organization. And it's a crime. It's illegal. Even for our readers, it's a vital threat because you could read Meduza if you are a Russian citizen. But if you want to share, or if you want to comment, if you want to like our post on social media, or if you want to quote us, or to give a link to our content, it's illegal. And punishment will be from $1,000 fine up to six years in prison. So, they are definitely cutting us off from our audience and so on.

NK: Yeah, how do you… how can you tell the stories if people won't talk to you?

GT: You know, Russia is a very complicated country. And, unfortunately, we have to change our protocols because we refused to talk with anonymous sources because it's very difficult to prove it, to fact check it. But now, we have to change these protocols and to use anonymous sources and to guarantee the anonymous status for our sources. And to guarantee nicknames and safety of these nicknames for our authors and our contributor writers. So, Putin's regime made our job very difficult. But, you know, it's not the first time when they want us to die. So, [chuckling] we’re smart and we're very fond of the game catch me if you can.

NK: Why do you continue? You said you're fond of the game, but why do you continue doing this work when it's forced you from your country?

GT: You know, it's very easy. In Russia, there is no… there is no institutions. You know, we have no… we have no legislative… real legislative organization like parliament. The elections were faked. And we had no… any court or any persecution power really. And we are the last institutional organizations inside Russia because we strongly believe that without independent media, without freedom of speech, there will be no hope for millions of Russians who are now trapped and locked inside the country, who are trying to escape this nightmare reality. But… and so, we have our mission. We just want… from the very beginning, we are totally stand by freedom of speech and freedom of information and freedom of spreading information. And now, yes, for sure, we are a threat to Putin's Russia, but we are maybe the only hope for the real Russia, for those who are dreaming of freedom, who want to live just normal life.

NK: Umm-hmm. Are you worried about your own safety, even though you're out of the country?

GT: You know, I'm too old to be scared by these silly idiots. I just do not want to be scared at all. It's… it's not about me. It's about our media and our journalists. Because I am a journalist for more than 20 years. I have seen everything. So, it's very difficult to… to… for me to be scared, especially for Putin's regime. They are very bad educated. Very stupid. And they're a total evil. I just want to be on the right side of history.

NK: Yesterday, you published an editor's note.

GT: Yeah.

NK: And I want to read to our listeners part of what you wrote. It says, quote, we fear for our readers. We fear for those who have collaborated with Meduza over the years. We fear for our loved ones and our friends. Still, we believe in what we do. So what is your message for… for those who are still inside Russia, who have worked with and for Meduza in the past?

GT: You know, I have just one message. Please, do not be afraid of anything. Because, you know, it's not forever. Just read independent sources of information. Not especially Meduza. We have good journalists inside Russia still. Please do not be afraid reading Meduza and reading other undesirable organizations, undesirable media or foreign agents. It's legal still. Please, just read us. Please, use different sources of information and Russia will be free in one day. Yeah.

NK: And just before we let you go, Galina, what about your message for… for our listeners and people listening right around the world?

GT: You know, please, do not consider Russia as an evil state. For sure, Putin's regime is a pure evil, but there are millions inside… people inside Russia, who are definitely desperately searching for freedom and for freedom of speech and freedom information. And we are trying to reach them. And if you can, please support us. And we will… we will continue our journey and we will continue our mission for sure. And please read us as well, we have a very pretty good English version, which is made with the native speakers, with Americans and Canadian journalists, and we love them very much. They are brave people, and they are good professionals. Please, read us as well. And if you want to, please support us.

NK: Galina, thank you very much. Stay safe.

GT: Thank you. Thank you. Take care.

CH: Galina Timchenko is the executive editor of Meduza. We reached her in Riga, Latvia.

[music: glassy guitar]

MB Oldest Holocaust Survivors

CH: According to the Shoah Foundation, they are the oldest living siblings to have survived the Holocaust. Ruth Zimmer, Anne Novak, Sally Singer, and Sol Fink live in Winnipeg now. They grew up in Sanok, Poland -- before the war changed their lives forever. They were kids when it started, ranging in age from 10 to 18. And today, the eldest sister, Sally Singer, turned 101.

SOUNDCLIP

SOLOMON FINK: My name is Solomon, but they call me Sol. I am born 1924. These are all of my sisters. We’re all one family.

SALLY SINGER: I am at the age that you don't tell anybody. [people laugh]

SF: A hundred and one. I told you.

SS: Sally Singer. This is my sister, Ruth.

SF: The baby!

SS: She is the youngest.

RUTH ZIMMER: Hi. My full name is Ruth Zimmer. I am 96. That's what I was told. [more laughing] And my sister, Anne. My beautiful sister, Anne. We are happy to be together. We are all Holocaust survivors.

MARCY MARKUSA: Ruth, you were saying before we started that you think maybe why you survived all these years is because you're together.

RZ: That's what they think.

SS: We just love to be together.

SF: Oh, there's nothing better in the world. Since we were born, we have always been together.

MM: This is not the first time you have shared your story like this. Why do you want to share it? Because, obviously, it's going to be painful.

SS: I think that that's important. People have to know what can happen.

ANNE NOVAK: We made sure that our children know.

SF: Anti-Semitism is back to 500 years.

SS: We can finish it with a song.

AN: Okay, let's do it.

[sound: a note on a piano, the family begins to sing]

SS: When we get together, we always find a song. And we start singing together. Thanks, God!

SF: To be happy.

SS: We love to be together.

CH: Sally Singer, Ruth Zimmer, Anne Novak, and Sol Fink, the oldest siblings to have survived the Holocaust. They spoke to Marcy Markusa this morning on CBC Winnipeg's Information Radio.

[music: house]

Emu Encore

Guest: Tristan Derham

CH: It's been more than 150 years since emus last roamed free in Tasmania. But new research suggests it may be time for an encore. The research, published in the journal of Global Ecology and Conservation, looks at why the Tasmanian emu went extinct -- and whether it makes sense to reintroduce the species into the wild in the Australian state. Tristan Derham is a research associate in the School of Natural Sciences at the University of Tasmania and one of the authors of the new paper. We reached him in Hobart.

NK: Tristan, what made you want to take a closer look at bringing back the Tasmanian emu?

TRISTAN DERHAM: I was studying a PhD. And my PhD covered environmental philosophy and ecological restoration. And I was looking at rewilding projects in North America and in Europe. And I realized that there weren't very many good examples here in Australia. And I cast about until I found this incredible story of emus being extirpated on the island of Tasmania. And I thought, wouldn't it be wonderful to have them back? And this experiment was done as a kind of thought experiment or a conversation starter.

NK: And I know you're not saying conclusively that they should be rewilded, but you want to start the conversation. What makes you think they would stand a better chance of survival now?

TD: Well, we tried to work out what sent emus extinct in the first place. Because, of course, if you bring them back, they might just go extinct again. There are a couple of reasons why we thought they might have gone extinct. One of them was habitat destruction. That's a common reason. And the other one was hunting. If you hunt too many of them, you'll crash the population. So, to figure out what sent them extinct, we ran some computer simulations. We created populations of emus on computers. And we watched those populations go up and down. And then, we added hunting to see what would happen. And what we found was that if you hunt too many adult emus, the population crashes. And too many, in this case, is only about 1,500 emus a year. What we knew was that the settlers that had come to settle Hobart in the early 1800s from Britain were hunting emus at about that rate. So, we know that the hunting right that colonists were inflicting on the emus was enough to drive them extinct. So, now we know that hunting drove emus extinct, and we know that we could protect them here in Tasmania if we had enough community support and that they would probably thrive.

NK: Is that will there now?

TD: I don't know. I don't know. I think that I've spoken to lots of people across Tasmania who are really keen to have emus back in the landscape. But some people like it just the way it is. That's a bit heartbreaking for an ecologist. An ecologist is a little bit like a curator of an art gallery. And you see beautiful art on the walls, but you also see the art that's been stolen, the art that's missing. Not everybody sees it. And so, an ecologist sees species that are missing from the landscape, and species that we could have back, and that would make our ecosystems richer and would also perhaps make them function better. So, I think there's a little bit of work to be done to convince people that having emus back is a good idea. On the other hand, there are huge areas of Tasmania, it's a very big place, where emus would do very well, and they wouldn't come into conflict with people at all. In fact, they might be protected in places like national parks.

NK: What kind of benefits do emus have for the ecosystem?

TD: So, the largest animals in an ecosystem are often really important for ecosystem functioning, and that's true for animals like bison in North America or elephants in Africa. And in Tasmania, emus are actually one of the largest animals in the landscape. We have kangaroos, and we have emus, but other than that, most of the animals are smaller, so they're probably important as herbivores, they'll graze and browse plants down. They're probably important for seed dispersal. And seed dispersal is really important in an age of climate change. Because in order to maintain their populations, plants are going to have to disperse their seeds quite far and quite fast to keep up with the changing climate. Now, emus are fantastic seed dispersers because they don't chew. They eat just about anything. They have these big wide beaks, and they basically will take up seeds with their food. The seed will pass through their gut as they walk many kilometres each day. And then, they'll excrete those seeds in their scats. So, emus might be really important for seed dispersal, but that's something that we have to… we need to do a bit more research on that. Unfortunately, emus haven't been researched all that much in Australia.

NK: That's so interesting because they're so… you know, they're on money. The imagery of emus are everywhere.

TD: That's right. Every Australian knows what an emu is. Most Australians have seen one either in the wild or in a wildlife park. They're such endearing, curious creatures. And when I say curious, I mean they're literally curious. [NK chuckles] An emu will sometimes come up and have a look at something new in the landscape. And in fact, a friend of mine, Dr. Fran Matthews, was doing some research in Western Australia, living in a tent on her own in the middle of nowhere, and a giant emu came through and stuck its head right in the tent to look at her. Amazing.

NK: [chuckle] They sound like journalists.

TD: Yeah, maybe they are. [both laugh]

NK: What might the rewilding process look like?

TD: If we were going to try this, we would start small-scale and very carefully. We would have large enclosures, that is fenced paddocks or fenced areas of bush, and we would release emus into those. We would take emu eggs from the mainland, Those emu eggs would be fertilized, and we would hatch them here. And then, we let those emus grow up here and basically see how they cope with the local environment. We would see what they ate, and we would see what kind of interactions they have with local species.

NK: I know you've said in the past that you want to make sure Indigenous communities are involved in any such process because of the destruction that's been caused in the past by colonial powers. How will you go about making sure that happens?

TD: Look, there are some pretty dark parallels here with the Hunting of emus in Tasmania. Because at about the same time, Aboriginal people in Tasmania were being killed and being disenfranchised. Now, many Australians have forgotten that there were emus in Tasmania. But Aboriginal people here have not. Tasmanian Aboriginal people are still doing emu dances, still telling emu stories. I think that's inspiring that they've kept that alive. And it's clear to me that emus are part of their traditional culture. Now, I'm not an Aboriginal person, and I can't speak for them, but I think that they would need to be one of the main voices in this conversation.

NK: Well, Tristan, I'm very glad we could speak. Thank you very much.

TD: Thanks, Nil. Appreciate it.

NK: Take care.

CH: Tristan Derham is a research associate in the School of Natural Sciences at the University of Tasmania. We reached him in Hobart, Tasmania.

[music: tango]

Church of England Same-Sex Comments

CH: Sandi Toksvig is a well-known broadcaster and comedian in the U.K., a former host of The Great British Bake Off, and an activist -- among other titles. She probably never expected to be such a renowned multi-hyphenate. But then again, she also probably never expected she'd ever meet up with the Archbishop of Canterbury for a drink. That meet-up came after Ms Toksvig called out the Church of England last year for its stance on LGBTQ issues. And after her meeting with Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, this week, she posted a video -- and explained her concerns.

SOUNDCLIP

SANDI TOKSVIG: Hello there. Well, yesterday I went to have coffee… tea, actually, with the Archbishop of Canterbury. Not a sentence I thought would ever come out of my mouth. We had agreed to such an unusual meeting following my public expression of distress last year when Justin, the Archbishop, reaffirmed the validity of a 1998 declaration by the church that gay sex is a sin. Given the state of the world, I felt all the many bishops might have better things to talk about. Anyway, from our very calm and considered conversation yesterday, it is very clear that the State Church of England and the society it purports to represent are not remotely in step. Justin was keen for me to see that they are moving forward but conceded that any progress, as I would see it... if it happens at all, will be glacial. It was very clear that opposing factions of the worldwide Anglican Communion, albeit in part, held together at the expense of the human rights of the LGBT+ community. It's not okay. And I said so. I asked Justin if he could just come out. I don't mean make a surprise announcement about his sexuality, but come out as a gay ally. Basically, to come out for love. Love for all without exceptions, and not the current Orwellian position where it would seem we are all created equal, but some are more equal than others. I hope that will happen, but I do not intend to wait upon the church. In the next few weeks, I will be reaching out to the LGBT+ community and all our allies to see what can be done. The present position is untenable. In the meantime, please, let's all come out for love.

CH: That was British broadcaster, Sandi Toksvig, speaking after meeting with the Archbishop of Canterbury. Her video comes a little over a week after the Church of England apologized for its treatment of LGBTQ people -- but reaffirmed that same-sex couples cannot marry in its churches. A new proposal says same-sex couples can have their civil partnerships blessed in the church afterwards.

[hip-hop beat]

Part 3: Right To Roam

Right To Roam

Guest: Sam Crosby

CH: Dartmoor is considered to be one of the last great pieces of true untouched wilderness in the U.K. Its rugged beauty has inspired poets and authors to indulge in their purplest prose. It was also the last place people were allowed to "wild camp" in England and Wales -- an age-old tradition, and, for many, an important rite of passage, which is why so many people were so indignant when the Royal Courts of Justice recently issued a ruling blocking access to the lush landscapes of Dartmoor for wild campers. And why thousands of people gathered there last weekend to protest what they see as a removal of their right, as British citizens, to access land. Sam Crosby is with the Right to Roam campaign. We reached him in Cornwall, England.

NK: Sam, when I heard about the story, a first thought that came to my mind isn't all camping wild? So, what… what is different about wild camping? What's so special about it?

SAM CROSBY: That's… that's such a great question. And you know why… why is wild swimming not just swimming? It used to be that that was the only sort of the only swimming and camping, right? Well, wild camping, in a very literal sense, means camping without asking for permission. So, I mean, immediately you're talking about going on a whim, adventure, following your nose, all sort of that kind of stuff. But spiritually and kind of emotionally, it's… it's a buy-in to adventure. And… and anyone who says that they're a wild camper will kind of… you know, they use the term carefully in this country, I think, because it shows a degree of commitment to it and a bit of nous and the right equipment. And alongside all of that, there's this kind of credo, the way you treat the land, the way you connect with the land. And, "leave no trace", you'll hear a lot. That's something that definitely connects with wild camping.

NK: And the spontaneity, that… that's key. I can hear… hear that from what you're saying, too.

SC: Yeah. And kind of taking care of yourself. You know, it… it could go wrong, [chuckling] and that makes it brilliant.

NK: And at Dartmoor, in particular, what is it like to camp there?

SC: Yeah. So, it's the last place in England and Wales -- or was the last place at the start of this year -- that you could wild camp. You knew you weren't going to get woken up by a landowner or somebody rousing you from sleep in the… in the middle of the night. It's… it's a marshland here. It's a forest there. It's a granite atol there. It's such… it's such a unique place. If you're there in the middle of January and you wake up in the middle of the night, and there's a full moon, it's like the surface of the moon. And other days, it might be there's just so much mist you can't see farther than 10 or 20 foot ahead of you. It's such... such a changeable place and so steeped in history and myth in this country that it's just… it's magical. There's no other word for it. It's a magical place, but it also has an edge as well. So, you've got to be able to take yourself a little bit seriously in terms of preparing ahead and that sort of thing. So, I think magic and an edge really just adds up to adventure.

NK: So, let's go back to last weekend because a very different atmosphere there. You helped organize a demonstration throughout the weekend to protest the court ruling that was going to take away this right to wild camp on the Dartmoor estate because there are people who own it, as you… as you hinted at, and more than 3,000 people came out, as I understand it. So, what was the energy like? What was the vibe like?

SC: I mean, I still don't know if I've fully landed, to be honest with you. [NK chuckles] It was just a stunning celebration of life. Everybody smiling, cheering, singing. I lost track of how many bands there were, samba bands, folk bands. It was a huge celebration of an access to land. And, you know, also raising up the issue that we have that a bylaw has been shuffled around in the… into the hands of a of the landowners and not into the hands of the public. And so, this… this moment, and this is a beginning of a… of a nationwide campaign. It was just… it couldn't have been more of a joyous and beautiful thing, really.

NK: There are landowners, though, 15 of them, as you well know, and many of them don't want you and don't want wild campers there anymore. So what changed? Why did they… why did they decide to pursue this legal action?

SC: Yeah. So… so, the broader picture is that 92 per cent of land in England and 97 per cent of rivers… 97 per cent of rivers are privately owned. And that… that just doesn't give public access if you're on a kayak or making your way down a river. There's a good chance that you're crossing somebody's land, and they have the right to remove you or ask you to leave that piece of land. And Dartmoor, in particular, had the Dartmoor Commons Act instated in 1985, which is a bylaw, really. It's a local set of laws. And it protected access to the… to the Dartmoor land for the purpose of open-air recreation. So, just before the turn of the year, one of the land owners from Dartmoor took the case to the Royal Courts of Justice that wild camping, or camping, isn't recreational. And so, there have been statements that have come out since, and it's been a really interesting kind of conversation between public and… and landowners. But essentially, it was… it was a removal of a right that's been instated since that Commons act was put in in 1985.

NK: Some of them have said… some of the landowners on the estate have said that… that they've seen the damaging effects of wild camping, and that they have to clean up after people who aren't treating the land with respect. And they're hoping that the new rules will actually help protect the land, protect the environment. What's your response to that assertion?

SC: There's a bigger, almost philosophical view of this sort of thing. Access to nature and understanding the land and our place within it is a fundamental human thing. And so, when… when the conversation comes down to things like litter. I would say, and this is a personal opinion, that when we don't have access to land, it means that we don't have a love of the land, we don't have the respect of the land, and those people who are who are littering and who are acting in ways that landowners are claiming obviously don't have that respect for land. And I would suggest that closing down access is only going to make that worse. And that's… that shouldn't come across as a threat at all. I mean, that in a wholehearted sense, if it went the other way, if we had more access to land and more education around what it was to have a connection to land, that sort of behaviour would… would just… it would be taken care of. I firmly believe that.

NK: And now, this latest decision. The park authority says it is appealing this… this court ruling. What will happen next?

SC: Yeah. Well, it's… it's… it's seeking to appeal. That's the first step. And in the short term, really, really brilliant result. But it must not undermine the point of the bigger campaign. It's brilliant to be appealing this and to be turning it over. But as I was saying, it's the start of something. This is the start of something. So, if wild camping comes back to Dartmoor, that's great. That's one national park. There are nine more national parks in England, three in Wales, plenty of greenbelt, land, forests, rivers. There's just so much more to it than one… one moor and one chunk of land to go wild camping on. So, the future looks bright, and the campaign looks exciting, too.

Nk: Sam, thank you so much. Great to speak with you.

SC: Thank you so much for… for paying an interest to something so dear to our hearts.

CH: Sam Crosby is an organizer with the Right to Roam campaign. We reached him in Cornwall, England.

[music: fiddle!!!!]

Alta Rare Finds

CH: When she first saw it, it didn't seem like a mammoth discovery. Last spring, Stacy Long was walking her dogs west of Edmonton when she found a metre-long object that looked like a piece of petrified wood. She was curious enough to have it examined by the Royal Alberta Museum. And the result recently came back -- it's likely a 10,000-year-old mammoth shoulder blade. Here is Stacy Long telling the story to CBC Edmonton reporter Madeleine Cummings.

SOUNDCLIP

STACY LONG: I would go out there. My husband would go fishing. [chuckle] And we had found a nice spot to go. So we started to bring our… our dogs, and just because it's a nice area for them to… they are two big Great Danes, so they need some space. And I started looking for rocks for my flowerbed. And then, I just… honestly, I was walking. It was really high banks, and there was some stuff that had fallen… it looked like it had fallen out of the hill because it wasn't there on previous walks. So, I was looking at it and just thought it looked like something. I didn't know what because it was quite full of stilt and, like, sediment. So, I rinsed it in the river. And it looked like to me it had some elements of bone, but it didn't… it just didn't fit… the size of it didn't fit with a bone of anything I could think of from around here. So I thought I would take it with me and look it up. And that's what I did. I was hopeful that it was a bone. I just reached out one more time, and I heard back right away from the Royal Alberta. I was shocked, definitely shocked, because I'm a retired teacher. So, this is just a new hobby for me, going out, but walking my dogs is a regular thing. So, it was interesting to just have that happen on a regular walk. When the Royal Alberta Museum released the information about it, most of my inquiries are from my former kids, so that's been really neat. Like, they're asking me, Mrs. Long, where did you find this? Or, you know, Mrs. Long, that's so cool! So they've been really good. A few of them are teachers now themselves, so they've been asking lots of questions.

CH: Edmonton's Stacy Long talking to CBC Edmonton reporter Madeleine Cummings about a bone she found, which experts believe is probably a mammoth shoulder. She has donated that find to the Royal Alberta Museum. And not to be outdone, Calgary recently announced its own ancient find. An international team of scientists say they've identified two new species of early primates that might have been swinging through the trees in and around Calgary 60 million years ago or so. Craig Scott is the director of preservation and research at the Royal Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology in Drumheller, Alberta.

SOUNDCLIP

CRAIG SCOTT: They are a species called Edworthia greggi, that was named for a now deceased colleague of ours who was a primatologist, and a second one called Ignacius glenbowensis, which is named for Glenbow Ranch Provincial Park, which is where some of the specimens of that particular species were discovered. These were very, very small mammals. They could fit probably comfortably in the palm of your hand. They probably lived in trees. There's some evidence from closely related species that these animals all were tree dwellers or at least had the capability of climbing trees if necessary. And they probably had proportions similar to what you would see in living lemurs. So, if you can have that sort of image in your head, that's probably what these animals look like. But on a very, very small scale.

LORNE MCGINNIS: What would it have looked like around here? The landscape, the geography, the flora, fauna? Like, what would it have been like around here when… when these things roamed?

CS: So, these two primates lived about 60 to 62 million years ago. And as you can imagine, the… the environment was quite different from what you see today. If you think of what conditions are like in modern-day Louisiana or in the Everglades, that's sort of comparable to what the landscape would have looked like. It would have been a sub-tropical environment. It would have been a much warmer mean annual temperature than you get today, very humid. The landscape would have been dissected by streams and rivers, with very, very lush vegetation, including things like dawn redwoods and ginkgos and things like that. So, quite a bit different from what we see today.

LM: This must have been quite a fun and rewarding process in your line of work.

CS: Very much so. And any time you have the ability to name new species, that's a really exciting and cool, cool part of the job. And I think it brings to light an aspect of Alberta's natural history that even people maybe don't often think about. We have to remember that natural history doesn't include just present day and, you know, several hundred years ago, but goes very, very far back into deep time.

CH: Craig Scott is the director of preservation and research at the Royal Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology. His team's research was published online this month in The Journal of Paleontology. He was speaking to Loren McGinnis on The Calgary Eyeopener.

[music: island dance]

FOA: Indian Cheetahs

CH: Next month, twelve cheetahs are scheduled to hop on a flight -- and take an historic journey. Yesterday, the South African government announced that it had signed an agreement to send cheetahs to India. And not just once: it will send a dozen this year, and a dozen annually for possibly the next decade. Asiatic cheetahs went extinct in India in the 1940s. So, India had the idea to bring in African cheetahs. Eight have already been sent from Namibia. In August, As It Happens guest host Paul Hunter spoke with Yadvendradev Jhala about the effort. He's the dean of the Wildlife Institute of India. He told us he was waiting for this agreement with South Africa to be made. Here's an encore presentation of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

PH: Jhala, you and your team are preparing to transport 20 cheetahs on a plane. How do you get these animals ready for that kind of a journey?

YADVENDRADEV JHALA: That's a good question. I think it's pretty simple. You know, the animals are already captured and not in quarantine in South Africa and in Namibia. And these animals need to be treated, and if you're going to fly them on an aircraft to India. Since the animals are already captured, radio-collared and screened for diseases, the task is quite easy.

PH: When I think of cheetahs, I think of speed. But for anyone who hasn't seen one or been near one up close, how would you describe the animal and… and its place in the wild?

YJ: The cheetah is an awesome animal to see in the wild, you know? It's… it's something which is incredible. The speed is one aspect of it, but just the majesty of the animal itself, even if it's, you know, just striding along in the grassland. In India, you know, we have the tiger as the apex predator in the forested systems. But the cheetahs serve that purpose in the grasslands, in the dry forest systems. So, we've lost this element in our ecosystems, and we plan to restore it in the years to come.

PH: How did you lose it? As the apex predator, as you put it, how did it go extinct in India?

YJ: See, the thing is, it's the only mammal which we have lost in independent India. The decimation of Indian wildlife started with the colonial era, when India was under the British rule, basically. The culture and the religion as a very tolerant form of way of life where all forms of life are revered. And that custodianship attitude was lost during the British era in the country. And it became exploitative, where the state-driven bounties were given for eliminating carnivores from the landscape. Even herbivores were eliminated as crop protection measures. So we almost decimated our life during that era. And when the populations dwindled to such low levels, recovery is very difficult. So when… after India became independent in 1947, the last cheetahs were shot in the same year. And their species were declared extinct in 1952.

PH: Wow!

YJ: By the Indian government, yeah. So, it was mostly hunting and removal of the prime habitat and their prey.

PH: So what a big deal this must be right now for India. How would you describe the significance of this moment now?

YJ: I think the bringing back the cheetah has been discussed since 1958 that the government of India was talking about doing an experiment of bringing in the Iranian cheetah. But in the 1970s, almost a deal was sealed with the Iranian government, where we would give them the Asiatic lion and get the Asiatic cheetah in return. Unfortunately, at that point in time, the Shah's reign was overthrown, and the negotiations fell apart. So we couldn't get the Asiatic cheetah to India at that time. And subsequently, it was too late because the… currently, the Asiatic cheetah is very few in numbers. I think it's believed to be less than 15 individuals in the wild, so there is no possibility of getting the Asiatic cheetah back into India. So we had to look for other sources from where we could get the cheetah and the only source in the world which has a substantial population of cheetah, which could act as a founding population for India, is in southern Africa. And we've approached Namibia and South Africa for giving us animals. And Namibia has already signed a memorandum of understanding with India. And South Africa is on the verge of signing a memorandum of understanding. So once that's done, we are ready to bring the animals to India.

PH: And once they arrive in India, then what? Basically, it's up to nature to take its course? They get friendly; they make more cheetahs?

YJ: Yeah. It's not that simple. Once they come to India, they'll be quarantined for another month. So you want to ensure that no exotic diseases are transferred between the continents. And then, after that, they'll be equipped with satellite collars and then released in free-ranging conditions within a national park. The first release site is known as Kuno National Park. It is in central India, in the state of Madhya Pradesh. So that's how the cheetah would be released. And once they're released, we hope they'll do their stuff, what cheetahs do, pair up, reproduce and produce more cheetahs.

PH: [both chuckling] They do what cheetahs do, exactly. [YJ chuckles] If they don't, would you bring more? Or is… is this the experiment that either works or fails?

YJ: No, it's not like that. It's… well, we are going to bring in animals every year. So this is just the first batch. We hope to get anywhere between 35 to 50 individuals over the period of five years because we want to capture the genetic variability which is found in these countries so that we can establish our own viable population in India. We're looking at putting cheetah in three to five places and then manage them as a single population. And we are not going to break our ties with these countries, but continue with an exchange forever in the sense we can take cheetah from India back to South Africa, and to Namibia so there will be a genetic exchange and continue to bring animals from there on. So it's like looking at a global cheetah population, you know? We're extending the range of the cheetah into its historical range from where it has been exterminated.

PH: Given… given what happened, you know, 70 years ago and all the time that has passed, what does this mean for the people of India? How are people feeling about this?

YJ: See, the word cheetah is of Sanskrit origin. Cheetah means the spotted one. It started from the word chita. And there's mention of the cheetah in the ancient Vedas of 4,000 years ago. There are cave paintings done by Neolithic men, you know, of cheetah, which is 10,000 to 20000 years old. So it's wonderful to get back a lost heritage piece of the heritage which we have lost due to human causes. And ecologically speaking, you know, we are restoring a very important element of the ecosystem, a large carnivore, a top predator, which relies on a different tactic than the other large cats. You know, the other large cats like the tiger, the lion and the leopard; they are stalking predators. They wait for their prey and ambush them. And the cheetah, for example, chases their prey. So a very different tactic of predation. And because of that, what happens is the weak ones in the prey populations gets weeded out. So it's a very important evolutionary force for herbivores.

PH: Is this going to work? What do you think? Are you hopeful?

YJ: Of course. I've been working on it for quite a few years, almost 20 years now. I am looking forward to making it work.

PH: What a fascinating conversation. Jhala, thank you so much.

JY: Most welcome, Paul. Take care.

PH: Bye-bye.

CH: From our archives, that was Yadvendradev Jhala, dean of the Wildlife Institute of India, speaking with guest host Paul Hunter in August of last year.

[music: rock]

Australia Radioactive Capsule

CH: This is a pretty enormous haystack. Just… just gigantic. It’s such a shame there's a needle in there. It’s a really sharp one, too, just unbelievably dangerous. Plus, it's so small. It's almost invisible. I really wish we hadn't dropped it in there! Huge mistake. Anyway: when you look for it, be careful to… I’m sorry? Oh yeah, we need you to look for the infinitesimal needle in the colossal haystack! And if you find it, you're already too close to it. Look, maybe I shouldn't be making light of the situation. After all, the thing that's missing in this case in Western Australia is this silver capsule, part of a radiation gauge that's used in mining, and it's extremely radioactive. As in: if you get within a metre of it, you'll absorb the amount of radiation you'd get from having 10 X-rays in one hour. And if you touch it, it will burn you. That is very bad. But it gets worse: this capsule fell out of a truck at some point during a 1,400-kilometre trip. But it gets even worse! The capsule is six millimetres by eight millimetres. That is about the size of a pea. Quite a small pea. An official team is out combing the countryside for it. But Western Australian authorities are also asking anyone who's driven that particular highway to check the treads of their tires, in case the capsule is stuck in there. They’re saying that if you see it, you shouldn't go near it. The problem there being that, to see it, you have to be near it. So if you're in Western Australia, keep an eye out for a thing that's almost invisible and very hazardous. Because in this case, you really should sweat the small stuff.

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

January 27, 2023 Episode Transcript

Social Sharing