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The AIH transcript for January 25, 2023

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens."

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

NK: A charged atmosphere. A judge in Lebanon reopens the investigation into the deadly explosion in the Port of Beirut in 2020 -- and infuriates the powers-that-be by laying charges against some of them.

CH: Strong anti-arm tactics. After Germany finally agrees to send tanks to Ukraine, a number of NATO allies are poised to follow suit. Amid Russian threats of retaliation, a German security policy expert predicts how the Kremlin will respond.

NK: Take a hike… another one. An economist explains why he believes the Bank of Canada is obsessed with raising interest rates and what this latest hike could mean -- long term.

CH: Home is where the hardship is. Right now, for Afghan women, the weather and the political climate are dire. But one activist tells us she's staying -- and that she wishes the women who've fled the country had stayed, too.

NK: Nom de plumage. We'll find out why an architect in India ditched that career to build an online library of feathers -- which proved to be a real test of her quillpower.

CH: And… tough pillar to swallow. Five years ago, a Philadelphia Eagles fan ran face-first into a subway pillar. Two weeks later, the Eagles won the Super Bowl. And he's no fool -- so he's been smashing into pillars ever since.

CH: As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that stresses there are less literal ways to make an impact.

Part 1: Beirut Explosion Case Reopened, BOC Rate Hike, Feather Library

Beirut Explosion Case Reopened

Guest: Tania Daou-Alam

CH: On August 4th, 2020, Tania Daou-Alam was with her husband, Freddie, at a hospital in Beirut when there was a catastrophic explosion. At least 218 people were killed, including her husband. Two-and-a-half years later, the investigation into the blast appeared to have stalled. And then, this week, a judge unexpectedly reopened it and charged several current and former officials, including Lebanon's top public prosecutor -- and Hassan Diab, who was the prime minister at the time of the explosion. Today, the public prosecutor responded by releasing all suspects detained in the investigation. And he reportedly plans to charge the judge who charged him. We reached Tania Daou-Alam in Beirut.

NK: Tania, there have been some key developments, as you know, in terms of the investigation this week. I wanted to start, though, with word that Judge Tarek Bitar was going to reopen the investigation, his investigation, into the blast in 2020. How did it feel to hear that he was pushing this investigation forward?

TANIA DAOU-ALAM: We were pleasantly surprised. It was good news that after the investigation had been frozen for 13 months amid legal challenges, it was a complete surprise when Judge Bitar announced that he was restarting the investigation. And that he was charging new names, namely the heads of general security, state security. And he just freed some detainees. So, we were really surprised. It was a bold, courageous move that we welcomed. But we were at the same time kind of expecting some aggressive behaviour. Then, today happened.

NK: Yeah, I wanted… I wanted to ask you about what happened today.

TDA: Well, many things happened today. It's just we're witnessing a judicial arm wrestling, a confrontation between judges, which is dividing the whole judicial system and the country. So today, the public prosecutor, Ghassan Oweidat, ordered the release of 17 suspects that were detained in connection with the Beirut explosion. And he also charged Tarek Bitar with felony of asserting authority. He placed a travel ban on judge Bitar and summoned him for interrogation. So in a way, you know, the accused is accusing the judge. Completely absurd.

NK: You have been caught in this absurdity, as you've put it, but… but also this pain for two and a half years. So how are you doing? How are you managing?

TDA: Well, today, I was pretty bad. I never thought that I could feel so angry. I was very, very angry. And I think I'm just not alone in this. We are all very angry. We were expecting some kind of reaction. But this, you know, this really takes the cup. We never expected something like this.

NK: There were… there was a lot of discussion in the immediate aftermath of the blast about corruption and the lack of accountability. How do you feel now? Does this just underline what everyone has been saying all along, or has it deepened since then?

TDA: Since day one, we have been requesting an international, impartial fact-finding mission near the United Nations, the Human Rights Council. And I think today justifies our… that we were convinced that nothing else could help, you know? I am personally married to an American citizen. My husband was American. My boys are American. I am a green card holder. And I am one among nine people who… who filed a complaint near a Texas court against TGS, a company that was believed to have chartered the ship carrying the ammonium nitrate. So, this is different. This is a civil lawsuit that we filed in the U.S. But up in parallel, we were requesting a fact-finding mission. And I have visited people at the Congress and in the American administration in September to ask for this fact-finding mission because I have always believed, like so many others, that this is our only way to the truth and to accountability.

NK: What are you hearing on that front from the politicians you've spoken to and the leaders? Did you get any movement?

TDA: The goal was to raise awareness. And I think that, yes, they are aware. Most of them maybe didn't know what really happened. But we are feeling that the international community has ignored us for a long time. And maybe now, they are starting to change their mind about what's happening. But we have felt neglected. Yes, for sure.

NK: And where do things stand with your civil lawsuit?

TDA: Well, things are, you know, going forward. So, we're hopeful. We're hopeful that this lawsuit is not only to ask for damages, mainly it is… our hope is that it can go into discovery, and that we're going to be able to unveil some facts and some documents that will be helpful in getting justice.

NK: You lost your husband, Freddie, in that case, as you mentioned.

TDA: Yes.

NK: What do you think he would say that… that this is still going on two-and-a-half years later, and there's been no accountability, no hard answers?

TDA: Well, knowing Freddie, I'm doing what I owe him because I was also injured because I was with him. So, if I was the one to, you know, to be dead, I know that he would be fighting, and he would be determined to go to the end. So, I think he… he's a very patient person. And I'm going to be very patient on this as well. It may take long years, but we're not going to stop anytime soon. I think we're going to be more determined than ever, although today was a bad day for us, and it feels like we lost and they won. But the truth takes years to unfold. So, I think we have to be patient about this.

NK: Grief is so difficult, even under very different circumstances than the ones you've dealt with. And I just wonder how you and your… your family are managing that grief?

TDA: Absolutely. It's very, very difficult because, you know, I think that my first concern was my boys. They were 15 and 17 when it happened. And I was injured, and I looked pretty bad. So, they had to, you know, to process their father's death, my injuries and a future that became very uncertain for them. So, a lot happened since then. We left for the U.S. My son started college there. It was very important for me to stay strong for them. And I think that we stay strong for each other, but we miss him so much that some days are really, really difficult. People say that with time, it gets better. I don't think so. I think you just miss the person more. And, you know, you fill the void.

NK: I'm glad you have each other, though. Tania, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

TDA: Thank you.

CH: Tania Daou-Alam's husband was killed in the explosion in Beirut in 2020. We reached her in Beirut.

[music: sombre instrumental]

BOC Rate Hike

Guest: Jim Stanford

CH: The Bank of Canada says it's sticking to the plan. Today, Governor Tiff Macklem announced another interest rate hike. Just a quarter of a percentage point this time -- but it does mean the rate is the highest it's been for 15 years. And that means more pain for mortgage holders and other borrowers. But the bank says it's succeeding in bringing inflation down -- and has hinted that this could be the last of the rate hikes. Jim Stanford is the chief economist at the Centre for Future Work. We reached him in Vancouver.

NK: Jim, you're not in favour of this latest rate hike. You think it's bad policy. Why is that?

JIM STANFORD: You know, Nil, in football, there's a penalty called piling on. If the player has already been tackled, you're not allowed to come and jump on them all over again. I kind of feel that's what the Bank of Canada did today, and they should get a penalty for piling on.

NK: [chuckling] They call it, you know, another, quote, modest increase. But there is concern, and you're among those voicing concern, that given the steep rate hikes we've seen to this point, that this could… this could push us into recession. Can you drill down into that a bit deeper for me and why you're worried?

JS: The problem is that it takes typically 12 to 18 months to feel the full impact of any rate increase. So, we still haven't felt the full effect of the first-rate increases that the bank implemented last March. That was only 10 months ago. And we've seen, obviously, eight increases since then in total. So, we're only really just beginning to feel the pain of rate increases that are already in the pipeline and households are suffering. We hear it all over. We've seen a big decline in consumer spending. We've seen households with mortgages who now have to pay several hundred dollars extra per month to the bank instead of buying the goods and services that make our economy function. And there's more pain to come from the rate increases that happened last year. The overall economy is… is very flat. And this increase is just, you know, in a way, going to add to the misery.

NK: Bank of Canada Governor Tiff Macklem, you know, did say, to paraphrase him, he was saying, you know, we know it takes time to feel the full effects of the rate hikes. And so, he seemed to be agreeing with what you said there. So why do they keep doing this?

JS: Yeah, I think there's a couple of other motivations to help understand the Bank of Canada's actions. Number one, they feel that their credibility has somehow been damaged because inflation took off during the reopening after the pandemic. Now, that was a, you know, hopefully, a once-in-a-lifetime world crisis. So, we shouldn't be, you know, too upset that we've had some repercussions, including some inflation. But they've kind of said this is a big blow to our pledge to keep inflation at two per cent no matter what. So now, they're going to air on the side of getting inflation down faster and further than you might normally choose to. Secondly, they have a belief, I think it's quite a naive belief, that people's expectations of inflation themselves cause inflation. So, he's put big emphasis on talking tough about their resolute determination to get inflation back to two per cent. Because he thinks if people believe him, that will help inflation get back to two per cent even faster. And, you know, well, expectations have a role, I think that's a very naive view. You know, I didn't pay $200 for a cart of groceries at Loblaws the other day because I expected it. There's something else going on in the economy. And I think this expectations narrative is a bit naive.

NK: When we often cover the impact of inflation in other countries on this program, you know, I'm thinking about the United Kingdom, which has certainly seen double-digit inflation. Turkey is a country I know well that was in the mid-eighties in terms of inflation back in October and has reportedly gone down a bit. So, staggering numbers are around the world. So when we look at the situation we're in... in this country, that Canada has been able to… to navigate things and moderate things. Doesn't that show that… that what they've been doing so far was the right thing to do?

JS: I think that international perspective is very important. You know, we hear the… and without minimizing the pain that Canadians are feeling, our situation here is actually relatively good. 6.3 per cent is the latest reading, and that's among the lowest of any industrial country. So, you know, first of all, anyone who blames our inflation on our prime minister or even Tiff Macklem is absolute talking nonsense. This is a global phenomenon, and Canada has done relatively well. But I actually think that means that we should be all the more cautious about clamping down too much to try and get inflation down faster. Even if that means a recession. The moderation of inflation that we've seen so far, from 8.1 per cent in June to 6.3 per cent, now had nothing to do with interest rates. It was all about gasoline and the resolution of some of those international supply chain issues. That has nothing to do with our interest rates. Even shelter costs, you know, real estate prices are coming down because of high-interest rates, but debt charges on mortgages have skyrocketed, and rents have skyrocketed because so many people are renting now because they can't afford to buy a house. And so, even there, the Bank of Canada's rate hikes have had zero impact on inflation. So, the moderation that we're seeing would have happened anyway. And I think that makes it all the more questionable that we would risk an all-out recession, which seems to be on the horizon just to get it down a little faster.

NK: When we look at interest rates now, 4.5 per cent, painful for… for some people now. As we know, people who own homes and have other debt. But if we go back to 2008 level, that's… that's where we're at now. That was still historically low. Do you think, you know, Jim, that… that we've all become too addicted to hyper-low interest rates?

JS: Yeah, I think that's a… that's a fair point. And that in and of itself is a sign of the economic weakness that we've experienced in recent years, particularly since the global financial crisis in 2008-2009. Central banks around the world, including Canada, found it impossible to normalize interest rates back to a sort of sensible level. You know, interest rates may not seem super high compared to where they were, say, in the early eighties, but Canadians debt levels are way higher than they were in the 1980s. We have much more consumer debt than we have government debt, for example. And so, that is going to make these interest rate hikes all the more painful. We've already seen an enormous bite taken out of consumer spending as early as last fall because of the higher debt charges that Canadians have to pay. And that's going to get much worse in the months ahead. So 4.5 doesn't seem like the end of the world. Of course, you and I pay much more than that on our mortgages and our credit cards and so on. But given Canadians debt loads, the pain of this is going to be unprecedented.

NK: And just before we let you go, Jim, any advice for our listeners, you know, who have mortgages and loans to pay, as news of this latest rate hike sinks in?

JS: It's really hard to suggest that there's an individual solution to an economy-wide problem. And the reality is more… most consumers and most businesses expect a recession in the months ahead. And again, that makes it, I think, all the more misplaced that this tough talk on inflation continues today, despite the risk of a recession that is in the immediate future.

NK: Jim, I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

JS: Thank you for having me.

CH: Jim Stanford is the chief economist at the Centre for Future Work. We reached him in Vancouver.

[music: slow instrumental]

Feather Library

Guest: Esha Munshi

CH: There are almost 1,400 species of birds in India. Which is a mind-boggling number -- especially compared to the 400-ish species you'll find in Canada. So, if you had to guess, you would assume that India had assembled a fittingly mind-boggling trove of bird-related information. But it isn't. Because in 1972, India passed something called the Wildlife Protection Act -- which made preserving dead birds illegal. Even for scientific purposes. And that made it very difficult ornithologists and birders to study the intricate details of feathers. But now, Esha Munshi is here to help. She left her career as an architect to co-found the Feather Library, an online feather database. We reached her in Ahmedabad, India.

NK: Esha, this all started for you with a single bird on your own balcony. What happened that day?

ESHA MUNSHI: So it was during the lockdown. And since the humans were not out, the birds were quite friendly. And one bird called Indian silverbill, which is a very tiny bird, somehow managed to get through the bird net, which I have installed at home because I've got four pet cats. And my cat rushed to attack it, and I happened to rescue it right in time and would release it back.

NK: Oh phew!!

EM: But in fright, birds tend to lose some of their feathers, and that's what this little bird did. And when I held those three or four feathers in my hand, I realized that the longest feather was smaller than my little finger. It was a brown-coloured feather, semi-transparent feather, and it just got me curious to know more about feathers. And I figured out, where do I go and find it? And I could not find the answer to it. So I thought that why don't I create one?

NK: Yeah.

EM: So for future, when people want to ask this question, they have somewhere to go to.

NK: But you left architecture behind to do this.

EM: Yes, I… by qualification, I am an architect. I was a practicing architect for 16 years, but I was a bird watcher. I have been a bird watcher over a decade now. As it happened that I started breathing birds. So I always say that I breathe birds, I paint birds, I read about birds, I look at birds, I record bird sounds. So 24/7, birds are on my mind.

NK: What about birds captivates you so much?

EM: I have no answer to that. It just happened from one bird on my… in my architectural office. I saw one bird sitting, and then I asked my cousin about the name of the bird. And that one bird led to another. That led to 10. That led to a hundred. And then, that led to a thousand. And there was no stopping me. [both laugh]

NK: Just logistically, how do you do it? You know, you might have a couple of feathers here and there, but are people sending you images? How logistically are you creating the database?

EM: I have tied up with one rescue centre in Ahmedabad. So what happens is whenever a bird comes to the rescue centres, birds are really sensitive and not all make it back to the wild. And when the bird has passed away, they either bury the body or burn the body. I have a contract. I have an MOU with the rescue centre that you let me digitize the feather details, and I will return you the feathers, and then you can dispose of it your way, whatever way you are using.

NK: So, are you working with a team at this point, or is it just you?

EM: So it's me, my co-founder, who works at the rescue centre. At the rescue centre, he basically looks after the aviary. And I've got a team of photographers and some volunteers who work with me to get this database online.

NK: It's quite beautiful, the ones I have seen, and so fascinating. I love libraries, and I don't breathe birds like you, but I do find them fascinating. [EM laughs] So, I did… I did look at the website, and it's… it's really… it's really lovely. How many feathers have you catalogued so far?

EM: Um, so we have catalogued around 250 specimens belonging to 110 species.

NK: So, 110 species of about 1,400 species of birds in India. So, still, a ways to go.

EM: Yes. Still a lot of way to go. [chuckling]

NK: What do you hope people take away from it when they visit it, no matter where they live in the world?

EM: Um, first of all, it should trigger curiosity in people. Like, I've seen a person would go… if it's a kid or old person, if you find… if one finds a feather lying on the ground, they'll pick it up. And, you know, there's something about feathers which fascinates everyone. I think the first idea is to create curiosity. Second idea is to create a dataset for the future scientist to look at and to analyze because a lot… not much further research has been done on Indian birds.

NK: Well, I wonder if… if what you knew, you know, your background in architecture and design and you know, there's a… there's a symmetry and design, certainly, to feathers?

EM: I think so. I think so because even while designing the website, I think my background in architecture came in quite handy to make it simple enough for people to understand. And also, not that simple that, you know, the scientist cannot use it.

NK: And of all of all the birds you've spotted, and this probably will be difficult for someone who loves birds as much as you do, but is there… is there one that's a favourite?

EM: Oh yeah, that's a difficult question, as you said. There's one bird which has always made me cry when I see it, and that's called a wall creeper, which is found in the Himalayas. And what fascinates me about it is that it's… when its wings are closed, it's a gray and black bird, very dull-looking bird. But as soon as it opens its wings, it has a flash of red in it.

NK: Oh!

EM: So all the feathers are red with dot… white dots in it. So the moment the bird flutters, you'll see that --

NK: That surprise.

EM: That glimpse of red. Yeah. Yeah, that surprise. And that always fascinates me so much.

NK: I'm already fascinated by it. I remember the first time I saw a kingfisher on the Aegean, and it had the turquoise, you know, on its neck. And yeah, it took my breath away too. But the wall creeper sounds pretty fantastic. It's that… it's that flash of… that surprise, as you say.

EM: Yeah, exactly.

NK: That's captivating.

EM: Yeah.

NK: Well, it's been a pleasure speaking with you, Esha. Thank you so much.

EM: Thank you so much.

CH: Esha Munshi is the founder of the Feather Library. We reached her in Ahmedabad, India.

[music: surf rock]

Eagles Pillar Guy

CH: On Sunday, the Philadelphia Eagles will play the San Francisco 49ers for the NFC Championship. And Eagles fan Jigar Desai will be at that game. But he has an important ritual to perform first: he has to run into a pillar. That's not football slang. I mean that Mr. Desai has to go to Ellsworth-Federal subway station in Philadelphia, and run into a pillar there. To explain why, let's flashback to January 21st, 2018. What you're about to hear is the sound from inside a subway car full of rowdy fans on their way to the NFC Championship game that day. The collective roar you hear is when Jigar Desai, in his Eagles jersey, starts running alongside the train, yelling "Go Birds!" The collective groan you hear is when his triumphant sprint ends, as he plows face-first into the pillar.

SOUNDCLIP

[cheers]

CH: His triumph was brief. But that day, the Eagles triumphed. They won the NFC Championship. And two weeks later, they won their first-ever Super Bowl. [scoff] You don't have to be a scientist to see that those events are connected: obviously, by crashing headlong into a pillar in a subway station, Mr. Desai helped the Philadelphia Eagles win. So, obviously, he has to crash headlong into a pillar before every Eagles playoff game. Which he does. If not the one in the subway station, then one in his living room. They might lose if he does it -- but they'll definitely lose if he doesn't do it. Some might consider that superstitious, but it is simple cause and effect. Not to mention heroism. Jigar Desai has made himself a pillar of the community -- by repeatedly smashing into one.

[music: ephemeral pop]

Part 2: German Tanks, The Afghan Women's Network

German Tanks

Guest: Ekkehard Brose

CH: It's been nearly a full year since Russia invaded Ukraine. And for months now, pressure has been mounting on Germany to send military tanks to its Ukrainian allies. Today, that decision was finally made official: Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany will send a battalion of Leopard 2 tanks -- clearing the way for other NATO allies to send dozens more. Obviously, Russian officials have denounced the decision -- and threatened nuclear retaliation if foreign actors help Ukraine with offensive weaponry. Ekkehard Brose is the president of Germany's Federal Academy for Security Policy. We reached him in Potsdam, Germany.

NK: Ekkehard, I'm wondering what these tanks might mean for Ukraine and its position in the war right now.

EKKEHARD BROSE: Well, first of all, [clears throat] this decision to supply Ukraine with much-needed tanks, battle tanks, is, I think, a big boost to Ukrainian morale. If you have seen the reactions tonight, that is already quite clear. And it's a much needed boost to morale. Secondly, however, the tanks, hopefully, will make a difference in Ukraine's ability to push back, to push Russia out of areas which they have conquered after the 24th of February last year. And also to better protect Ukrainian cities, which are bombarded and under a shower of artillery, as we can hear and see every day and have been for some time now.

NK: What do you think tipped the scales for the German leadership to give the go-ahead to this? Because Ukraine has been asking for a long time and other countries have been… have been wanting to do this, whether or not they got Germany's approval. What tipped the scales for Germany, do you think?

EB: It is for everybody, not just for Germany, for everybody. This is a momentous decision, arguably for Germany in a particular manner. Because as you understand, as a consequence of this decision, German-made tanks, whether they're German or from another origin, but they're German-made, the Leopards. These tanks will face off with Russian tanks on Ukrainian territory, territory which has seen fights between the Germans and the Russians before. So, it's… it's quite a difficult decision for Germans, but it is the right decision. And it's also a decision which took quite some time to discuss and negotiate because we were absolutely certain we wanted to have unity of the so-called Rammstein group, that's the group of supporters of Ukraine. We wanted to have all the other countries as much as possible on board. And part of this decision and part of the implementation of it. So, I think the result of it now is that we have the American president saying he's going to send 31 Abrams. But we have the Germans and quite a number of European countries saying they're going to send Leopards, plus the British saying they're going to send 14 Challenger. That's a very good result because it's a… it means there's unity. That unity, I think, is important in the long run also to maintain in the face of the Russian onslaught. This unity will be tested. This is not the last test. There will be more tests, but it was important to take that decision together and… and also to have some skin in the game for everybody.

NK: Um-hmm. The Russian embassy in Berlin, as I understand it, has called this a dangerous move and that it could draw Germany into the war. How much concern is there?

EB: It would be wrong to say there's no concern because every prudent person has to be concerned. I think, given the present situation. It's not specifically only a concern in Germany. Other countries are also concerned. I think we must expect the Russian government, the Russian media and all the… are going to use all the various outlets to paint a picture of… of this being a deliberate Western escalation. They're going to paint a picture of Germany being in the forefront. And the Leopards are going to play an important part in history, as I mentioned, is going to play important part also in using that for propaganda purposes on the Russian side. We have to anticipate all that. And it's going to be not so easy for all our countries, but particularly perhaps in view of history for Germany to stomach that.

NK: For a very long time, as you know, for decades, in fact, Germany has, you know, mostly taken a hands-off approach to military action. Do you think this signals a shift in Germany's attitude in terms of foreign policy vis-a-vis military action? Or… or do you think this is a very case specific situation?

EB: On the one hand, I have to say that the development has been gradual in German foreign and defence policy. Remember, we were involved as of the beginning, more or less, in Afghanistan with, at some point, several thousand troops. We were involved in Mali, and we still are involved in Mali with about a thousand troops. So it's not that there are no German soldiers abroad. And in… and German soldiers have gone into battle. But you're right, of course, that German history meant that there's a certain reticence. Also, quite frankly, Germany was very lucky. We live in Europe. We are… our country, Germany, reunited Germany, is surrounded by nothing but friends, and has been for many years now. In every direction, only friends. This makes for an attitude which seems to think that it's not necessary to worry over much of your own security. And that attitude has been shattered and is changing, no doubt, with the 24th of February attack by Putin's Russia against Ukraine. This is much too close for comfort. And this is calling into danger our… not only our interests but really our values and our way of life in Europe in a very fundamental way. And that is why everybody, including the Germans, have reacted strongly.

NK: I appreciate your time, Ekkehard. Thank you so much.

EB: Thank you very much. Bye-bye, then.

CH: Ekkehard Brose is the president of Germany's Federal Academy of Security Policy. We reached him in Potsdam, Germany.

[music: industrial]

TTC Head

CH: Transit riders and workers in Toronto are nervous these days. The latest stabbing happened today on a bus in the city’s West End. Yesterday, a woman was stabbed on a streetcar. The day before that, two transit workers were swarmed by a group of teenagers. And on the weekend, someone shot at a bus driver with a BB gun. And those are just the latest attacks to have drawn national attention to the safety of Toronto transit. CBC Toronto spoke to people riding the TTC about their concerns. And then they put those concerns to the head of the Toronto Transit Commission, Rick Leary.

SOUNDCLIP

ISMAILA ALFA: What do you say to those TTC users who are turning down their music? They're afraid to travel alone, making sure they're up against the wall, far from the tracks on the subway. And just fearful of riding the subway. What do you say to them?

RICK LEARY: Well, you know, we understand, you know, absolutely we can understand when we have these high-profile incidences occurring across the TTC, how people feel. And it's our responsibility to address them and make sure that we let them know what we're doing and listen to them. You know, we've heard about more visibility and that's you know, we look at long term and short term, what can we do? And that more visibility has been critical. Supervisors, special constables, you know, getting them out there, giving them a sense of comfort. You know, this high-profile, it's really brought attention to an issue in the city of, you know, mental health issues underhoused, right?

IA: So… so, you understand the worries of those people that we heard from. How concerned are you yourself about safety on the TTC right now?

RL: A top priority. You know, very concerned. You know, concerned for the safety of our customers, concerned for the safety of our employees. You know, safety is always at the forefront of everything we do. You know, and when these high-profile incidences occur, you know, we all get together and have discussions about what can we do? You know, these type of issues we need to address together.

IA: What do you think is behind this… this recent violence on the TTC?

RL: We don't know. Post-pandemic, more and more underhoused have come into the stations. It's warm. Get out of the… out of the elements. You know, and the concept of what's happening with these assaults and the mental health aspect of it and knowing that we need to get that mental health investment to take care of people. It’s that compassion side of us of getting out there and… and working with us. So that's the importance of being at the table. You know, the mayor has called a table with the city, the TTC, the police, our union partners. Were all at that table. And more recently, the TTC board approved the additional hiring of special constables and more streets to home staff to… to be there visible in the stations.

IA: As riders and news watchers, easy to feel that violence is increasing on the TTC, is it?

RL: Well, you know what you see, right? You know, with the millions of people that we move on a daily basis, yes, you know, it's very high-profile, three incidences in the last four days, you know? So, you have to acknowledge that. Getting stuff out, kind of demanding in the sense that it's… more is addressed when it comes to mental health. These come out of nowhere. You know, a person getting stabbed in a streetcar, you know. And our thoughts are with that young lady, her family, her friends, right? That should not happen on public transit. You know, there's some… there's a challenge in society right now.

CH: That was Rick Leary, head of the Toronto Transit Commission, speaking to Ismaila Alfa, host of Metro Morning.

[music: jazz]

The Afghan Women's Network

Guest: Mahbouba Seraj

CH: Tonight, hundreds of thousands of women in Afghanistan are facing some stark choices. Temperatures there have plummeted. The ruling Taliban says the cold snap has already killed more than 150 people. On top of that, there's the economic crisis that's followed the withdrawal of international assistance. And, as we've talked about on this program, the Taliban is restricting non-governmental agencies from employing Afghan women. Who are crucial in getting the necessities of life to Afghanistan's increasingly desperate women and children. It's just the latest in a series of Taliban restrictions that have prompted prominent women to flee the country. But Mahbouba Seraj has decided to stay. Ms. Seraj is a veteran journalist and campaigner and the founder of The Afghan Women's Network. We reached her in Kabul.

NK: Mahbouba, Afghan women are clearly up against a lot right now. Day-to-day, from… from where you are and what you're seeing, what exactly are they dealing with?

MAHBOUBA SERAJ: [chuckling] The question is, what exactly are they dealing with? Because right now, they are dealing with every single thing that is not happening in their lives. Lack of education, lack of access to medical facilities, lack of access to work, lack of access to money, to… to… to… to help. I mean… I mean, you name it, the women of Afghanistan, they are really, really in a very bad place right now.

NK: Why have you decided to stay?

MS: I thought somebody has to. And I love my people very much. Very, very much. And I thought I should be around them because I know my… my presence here and being around them helps. And because it does, then… then I'm fine. I'm doing… I'm doing what I can in my power to help. And I thought staying in Afghanistan would be the right thing to do.

NK: We've seen clear examples of just how dangerous… dangerous it is for women there, high-profile women, certainly. Former Afghan MP Mursal Nabizada we've spoken about. She was murdered in Kabul earlier this month, as you know. And we spoke with Fawzia Koofi at that time, who said she worried that Miss Nabizada's death wouldn't be the last killing. But you've… you've said you think Afghan women should come back, and they should stay. Why?

MS: Absolutely. Because, I mean, we are… look at what is happening. All of these things that are happening in Afghanistan. If the women of Afghanistan were here, it wouldn't have happened. I can promise you that.

NK: How?

MS: I mean, this is because there would have been more voices from inside Afghanistan. There would have been more possibilities of doing things from inside Afghanistan, not only from outside. It would… it would have been very different. I'm not saying now that everybody should really be coming back. I don't think… I don't think now is a good time either. But if they had stayed, things would have been very different because, you know, the whole development of the whole situation of Afghanistan, it was because there was lack of the… of a lot of this amazing woman that they did so much. It wouldn't have been easy. You know, they were around for… for… for… for anybody to get rid of them or consider them as non-existing or… or, you know, draw a line over them and say, okay, just let's not consider the Afghan woman. No, it wouldn't have been like that. It would have been something entirely different.

NK: Can you understand that people are scared? Some women are scared. Some other former MPs who saw Ms. Nabizada's death and want to get out and could be coming to Canada.

MS: I do understand that. I understand the fear. Please, believe me. It's not that I don't understand it. I understand all of it. But then, there is something else that I do understand also. We are born. And we are living, and life is only once. Although, I'm not supposed to be saying that because I'm a much older woman than any one of these people. They are young. My life is really behind me. So, you know, I really, really, in a way, I don't have a right to say that. But at the same time, you know, why… why… why should we live in so much misery? You don't even know what the women of Afghanistan are going through these days. I swear to you, I deal with them from morning to night. It is the most heartbreaking, heartbreaking situation in the world to see them. They are completely broke. They are poor. They are hungry. They are cold. I mean… I mean, poverty on one side, the lack of education and the lack of the… the real attention of the world on the other side. And… and this whole… this whole thing seems like an… like an absolute nightmare, a nightmare. It's like, when are we going to wake up?

NK: What would real attention look like? You know, Canada has faced some criticism for… for not moving more quickly to… to help ms. Nabizada flee Kabul. But what would you like to see this country do?

MS: Well, I mean… yeah, I mean… I mean, Canadians are doing that. A lot of people… you see, there are different, different kinds of movements going on in every front. Canada's also helping people to get out of Afghanistan and go to Canada and have a life and start a life there. And I am so forever grateful for that that you are doing that. And at the same time as they are doing it and this is something that they have promised to the people of Afghanistan, then they better do it really faster and better and more systematic, so these people could get out. If they are not doing it, then they should say, no, we are not doing it and let us be. You know, this… this kind of a… this kind of a… it's a weird give-and-take game that is going on. And that is really... I find it very, very hurtful, honestly. Because people don't know what they're supposed to be doing.

NK: Yeah.

MS: And that's not right. That's really not right. If you want to help, help. If you don't want to help, don't help. You know? It's perfectly okay. At the same time, some of… look at… look at the brain drain that is happening right now in Afghanistan, for God's sakes. This is unbelievable. I mean, I can't see the whole situation without having the future of Afghanistan in my mind. You know, I… I haven't given up on this country. I really haven't, nor on the people of this country. So, what is going to be happening? Everybody that knew something, learned something, was somebody, gone.

NK: Mahbouba, what would you say to women who fled Afghanistan who have come on our program and said one of the things they want to see from the rest of the world is even harsher international sanctions on the Taliban?

MS: You know, we can all say harsher this and harsher that. And, you know, when we are away [chuckle] from the whole thing, you know, outside, we can do all of that. But believe me, once being inside Afghanistan and living the life with all of this that is happening, it becomes impossible. And I don't think they will say it. Because if this was going to be implemented on them and they would be living every single day of life in Afghanistan, they would not ask for it. It's inhuman. It's really inhuman.

NK: So you think sanctions on the Taliban will filter down to people who live there and make them suffer even more?

MS: Yeah, that's the only thing that is happening. Any kind of a sanction, that's what happens. The world thinks that they are doing the sanction on the government. It's never happening on the government. The sanctions are happening on the people. And the people that are paying the highest price are the poorest.

NK: What should happen then? What is the answer.

MS: The answer is really very serious diplomatic talks, very serious diplomatic discussions, a whole lot of give-and-take, you know, from both sides. And really seriously wanting to save Afghanistan and make sure that it's going to stay a country, not torn up into different pieces of… of a landmass because it is very rich underneath, under the ground. That will not help us. But that's the way the world is kind of treating us. And it's not right. It's really not right. It's enough.

NK: And when you say talking, you're saying talking… diplomatic talks with the Taliban?

MS: Exactly. They have… they have to start talking again because that's the only way we can do it. How else are we going to do this? How else?

NK: But there are those who will say the Taliban has… has lied to us before. We're seeing some of that happen right now. So, what would be the point?

MS: Of course, they have lied. The world lied to us. Have they forgotten that? How much the world lied to us! Of course, the Taliban lied to us. The world lied to us. Our government lied to us. Our presidents lied to us. They all lied to us. They really did. So when are we going to stop the cycle of… of… of lying and this misery? We have to stop it, somehow, someway. The people are just dying. They have reached their limit. For God's sakes, they've reached their limit. It is so awful, really. The people of the world should start making their governments responsible for the kind of actions they are taking all over the world. It's wrong. Wrong actions are wrong. Please, let's face it. It's not because I'm against this and against that. And I'm… and I'm talking like that. No, it's not that. It's just that for seeing it once, for the reality of what it is. Please, let's not do this to human beings. Let's not do this to ourselves.

NK: You work every day, as you said. You're talking to women every day, trying to help them. Still, in spite of everything.

MS: Every day. Every day.

NK: That's what keeps you going.

MS: Every day. Every day. Every single day, from the morning that they wake up at 7 in the morning when I start answering my… my WhatsApp. I swear to you. There are continuously people asking for help. Continuously, I'm seeing them throughout the whole day. Continuously, I'm trying to get some money to help these people.

NK: How do you help them? What kinds of things are they asking you just specifically, you know? And how can you help them?

MS: Everything. Well, they're asking for food. They're asking for clothing. They're asking for medication. They're asking for… for… for everything. They're asking for wood. They're asking for coal. They are asking for warmth. They are asking for a… for a place to live. I mean… I mean… I mean, they are asking for everything because they don't have it. Everything fell apart. Honestly. It's awful. It's really awful. Is really awful. I can't tell you how terrible it really is.

NK: Mahbouba, thank you.

MS: You're welcome.

CH: Mahbouba Seraj is the founder of The Afghan Women's Network. We reached her in Kabul.

[music: indie rock]

Part 3: International Dr. Requirements, Beach Bed Cleanup

International Dr. Requirements

Guest: Abhinaya Yeddala

CH: Nova Scotia's premier says Canada's healthcare system is in crisis. Tim Houston made that assessment after the deaths of two people who were seeking help in Nova Scotia emergency rooms. And last week, his government announced a series of changes meant to shore up the province's medical system. But Abhinaya Yeddala wonders why Mr. Houston isn't acting to make sure doctors like her are able to work in his province. The Indian medical student graduated from Dalhousie University in 2019. But she was not able to start her medical residency for more than two years. She had to become a permanent resident of Canada first -- which is something most of her classmates from abroad weren't willing to do. We reached Dr. Abhinaya Yeddala in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia.

NK: Abhinayam, certainly through our coverage, we've heard the frustration and the concerns from Nova Scotians about the deep gaps in the province's healthcare system. What is it like for you knowing that if the rules were different, the province could have more doctors just like you?

ABHINAYA YEDDALA: I graduated in 2019 from Dalhousie University. I'm a Canadian medical graduate. Although I did not have my permanent residency, I had my work permit at that point in time. However, to get into residency, there was this roadblock of needing a permanent residency status in Canada or a citizenship in Canada, which was unfortunate because there were at least five to six in each cohort within Dalhousie University, like a lot of them, leaving because of the requirement.

NK: The rules changed mid-process, right? Because you… when you first decided to go to Dalhousie, you went under the understanding that you would be able to do your residency in Newfoundland. Then the rules changed. That wasn't an option. You had to become a permanent resident. So, what did your classmates who were… who were coming from outside of Canada have to do once… once they realized they'd have to wait years?

AY: Yeah, they wanted the permanent residency status as well, which kind of made us a little upset. It was in the middle of our medical school as well, and we were already in Canada. It was unfortunate. We scrambled. We did not know how to get into the residency system at that point in time with that block. So we were quite lost because we were not, at that point in time, thinking about, Oh, let's apply for PR or citizenship and see how we could get it. So, a lot of people left, unfortunately. I had few reasons to stay back, but one being my fiance, who is now my husband. So we had a strong base here and we really wanted to stay back in Nova Scotia. So, that made us want to try a little harder. So, it took me two years to get my PR, but a lot of people don't have that amount of time or patience, so they left to other countries, unfortunately.

NK: What was it like waiting all of that time, as you're, you know, I'm sure hungry to start practicing?

AY: It was a lot of things. It was scary. It was frustrating. It was scary because even if I got my PR, there was no guarantee that I was going to get into residency because I had to compete just like any other Canadian medical graduate with everybody else. And having that two gap year in my CV, although I was a research assistant, didn’t do an amazing job to promote myself. So, I think that didn't quite help the two years especially. And it was frustrating because, you know, like I wanted to become a family doctor all through, and just knowing that there was a lack of family physicians. I myself didn't have one, you know, like when I was waiting. I do have one right now, fortunately. But I understand the frustration of not having one. And I'm young and healthy and I don't have any issues. So, I can only imagine for older populations who really need family physicians or sicker people. So, it was frustrating to see all of that happening. And I'm like, well, I could be one. I could help out at least a handful of them. But I'm sitting here not doing the thing that I'm trained for.

NK: What is it like now to… to be able to do what you're trained to do?

AY: I'm so grateful. I mean, when you get something that you really wanted and you tried and you worked hard for it, like you hold on to that even closer. So I feel like I'm super lucky that I got into residency. I'm grateful that I'm in Nova Scotia just as I wanted to stay in. And, yeah, it feels good. Especially now that the crisis is happening. It feels good to be, you know, helpful in some way or other, even if I'm obviously not going to fix all the problems just for myself. But just being a small, tiny bit part of it just makes a huge difference, yeah.

NK: When you think of… of those colleagues who… who could have been joining you, that seems like a huge loss for a system that's already very, very strapped as we know.

AY: Yeah, I agree. I mean, it was sad seeing a lot of them. They're all very well qualified, amazing doctors. One of them is a pediatric neurologist in Boston, which is amazing. She's training to be one. I do have another colleague who is in Inverness right now, who went through the same… went through a similar process. And there are others in other countries. It's frustrating. I mean, like we all had plans to stay back in Nova Scotia. We all had plans of working here as doctors. Just to see them go away. And then, Nova Scotia facing what it’s facing right now, it's sad altogether.

NK: If you could speak directly to the premier about this, what would you say to him?

AY: Well, the last cohort that's coming similar to us is 2025. So there's still doctors graduating this year, 2024 and 2025. There's still plenty of time to make changes to let them apply for residency just using work permit. And another thing that I'm trying to advocate for is international medical graduates, which is a different path from us. There are a lot of international medical graduates who would love to stay back and work just like I… I did. And they probably are just opening up more residency spots. The training might be quite helpful as well.

NK: If they don't take advice like… like the advice you're giving. If they don't listen, what is the province risking?

AY: They're… well, they've risked it already. I feel like they could only benefit from it if they're able to make some changes. Getting more doctors, even like a handful every year, makes a difference as a whole. The risks are already playing out, so.

NK: What do you think? What do you think is behind it? You know, you're trained there, as you said. What's the issue, in your view?

AY: I don't know what the issue is, but I feel like there's a lack of awareness. There's a lot of it's not our responsibility. And maybe pointing fingers, I'm not sure. But when I try to find out who's under control, I couldn't find answers. Everybody said it's not under our control, so that is not helpful. So, I don't know is the answer, yeah. [chuckle]

NK: Abhinaya, thank you very much for your time.

AY: No problem. Yeah, no problem. Thank you so much for your time as well.

CH: Abhinaya Yeddala is a family doctor doing her medical residency. She's in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia.

[music: ambient]

B.C. Avalanche Survivor

CH: It's been a deadly month in British Columbia's backcountry. On Monday, two brothers from the United States died after getting caught in an avalanche while heli-skiing near Revelstoke. That brings the total number of people who have died as a result of avalanches to five. Two off-duty police officers were killed earlier this month near Kaslo, and another person died near Valemount. Officials say once-in-a-decade conditions mean the backcountry will remain dangerous for weeks. Twenty-five-year-old Thomas Petit was caught in an avalanche near Revelstoke earlier this month, and escaped with a broken leg.

SOUNDCLIP

THOMAS PETIT: I can just remember, like the fracture all the way in front of me across the gully. And then yeah, I get… I get dragged down from the gully and I take so much speed. I try to create an anchor with my pole. First thing I was thinking was to just create an anchor and pinch the ground and try to make a self arrest, but it's not working. My post just broke in half. And, unfortunately, it takes so much speed. So, at this time, I just try to protect my head. And I was completely blind because, like, all this snow was moving around. And I was laying on my back and sliding down the hill just so fast, like in five seconds, I maybe reached like 60, 70 kilometres per hour. And I was getting faster and faster. And then I hit something, maybe a rock… a rock. And yeah, it's maybe the… the, the moment where I broke my legs. And then I continued to fall. And Jim fell of a cliff. I freefalled twice for, like, three seconds, two or three seconds.

SARAH PENTON: Freefall? Like, you were, like, airborne?

TP: Yeah.

SP: Yeah.

TP: Yeah, I completely freefalled. So, at the same time I was just like, thinking, I'm going to die. I'm going to drop the master cliff and just going to die. But it's not happening now. Yeah, after of those event, I just, like, hit the ground and the slopes getting smoother because I… I don't know. But I was at the bottom of the… of the bowl. And I start to get barrel for maybe like 30 seconds. It's getting slower. And I can… I can remember, feel like how deep I was. And then sometime, I get troubled to just realize where is the upside down? And --

SP: You didn't know which way was up.

TP: Yeah, just confusion. And… and I remember just… just keep moving my arm in front of me, just to… to open like a space to my chest and my mouth, just… just in case. Yeah, to give me a couple of extra minute if… if I was a barrel.

SP: If you got buried under the snow.

TB: Yeah. Yeah. If I get buried. And I can just remember hear… like, hear more, like, clearly when I was closest to face. And now. Yeah. This time I say, okay, go for it. Like, go out of it. And it was happened.

CH: That was Thomas Petit speaking with Sarah Penton, host of Radio West, about surviving an avalanche in Revelstoke, B.C. earlier this month.

[music: ambient]

SK School Lawsuit

CH: The young students at the Île-à-la-Crosse boarding school were denied their Indigenous culture. And since then, survivors have been denied the residential school settlements that others received. From the 1860s to the 1970s, the school operated in the Saskatchewan community about 460 kilometres north of Saskatoon. But its former students were denied compensation because the school was run by the Roman Catholic Church, with no federal funding. Now, six former students have launched a proposed class-action lawsuit against the federal and provincial governments. Among them is Louis Gardiner, who attended the school from 1961 to 1969.

SOUNDCLIP

LOUIS GARDINER: As a survivor, I speak for all the survivors that are in front of us here, survivors who are listening and the survivors were not with us today. They never had a chance to tell their story. We suffered the same trauma as all residential schools. It was the same. The agenda was to take the culture out of the child. We couldn't speak our language. They separated the survivors. The males were on one side, females on one side. We couldn't even go see our sisters to speak to them. Very challenging. I had a number. And I had to remember that number because I couldn't use my name. Nobody could use their name. and They would call you out, Number 48. You had to come right away. And if you didn't, they call it the strap was the weapon. And it did a lot of damage. And if you tried to pull back, it's an extra two. I think the people are tired. The survivors are tired. This file has been with us since 2005. We had hope. When the announcement was made, there was agreements. But all due respect, that was AFN that negotiated with the government of Canada at that time. And they spoke for their people, First Nations side. And then we asked, what about what about us as Île-à-la-Crosse? Because we did have a lot of First Nations attend our school also. We had a few survivors that ran away from the school. They were out looking for them. I was one of them. They had a search team looking for us. But I won't tell you where my hiding spot was. [people chuckle] But, yeah. And we lost everything. We lost our language, our culture, our identity. And all we ask for is to be treated fairly as survivors. We felt we were all one family, First Nations, Metis. That's how we felt. I remember the 2005 acknowledgement. I remember government coming to Île-à-la-Crosse and tearing down our building. We wanted to get rid of the memories. Those are the things I think as survivors, I speak on behalf of. We want some kind of recognition and to be treated fairly. I think very important.

CH: Louis Gardiner is a former student of the Île-à-la-Crosse boarding school, which included Métis children. He's part of a proposed class-action lawsuit launched against the federal government and the government of Saskatchewan.

[music: instrumental]

Beach Bead Cleanup

Guest: Lionel Cheylus

CH: Nurdles have a cute, funny name. And that's about all nurdles have going for them. To be fair, the tiny plastic beads are great at their job of being the raw material for bazillions of things companies make out of plastic. But when those companies fail to keep track of them, and then end up in the ocean, nurdles -- also known by the darker nickname "Mermaid's Tears" -- are very bad news for the creatures who live in the sea, and the creatures who eat those creatures, including us. Some kind of industrial spill is probably behind the millions and millions of little plastic granules -- nurdles -- that have been washing up on the beaches of France recently. Lionel Cheylus was part of a crew of local volunteers who descended onto a beach in Pornic this weekend to try to remove them. By hand. He's also a spokesperson for Surfrider Foundation Europe, a healthy ocean advocacy group, which helped organize the clean-up. We reached him in Paris.

NK: Lionel, these beads have sort of a poetic nickname, Mermaid’s Tears. But I… just it must be a nightmare to try to clean these up. How difficult is it?

LIONELL CHEYLUS: Yes. Well, it's difficult because they are small pellets of plastic which are known as Mermaid’s Tears. But we don't like this name. So, it's very small. It's like five millimetres. And so, it's… it's a real drama for us because there are a lot of them right now in all the Atlantic coast in… in France. It's moving from one coast to another. So, it's a bit difficult to… to chase them.

NK: How many? Can you even begin to… to give us a sense of how many are there?

LC: Oh, it's very difficult to say. But what we can say, the official figure, is that there is a loss of 160,000 tonnes of these kind of pellets each year in the European Union. So, it is very wide. It's very difficult to… to say how much there are. Still, there is one of the collection that we did, and we collected just 60,000 of them, which is not that much finally, but it's kind of a figure.

NK: But 60… how long did it take to… to pick out? Because they’re… just to stress again for our listeners, they’re tiny. Like, barely… it’s kind of like a grain of rice.

LC: Yes. So on this beach, there were 90 people during two hours. And so, they're digging, and they managed to collect 60,000 pieces of them.

NK: That's… that's pretty, pretty incredible. You know, you said this is… these are the plastics used to make things, you know, that we use in our everyday lives. When I first saw them, I thought they might be packing material, but it's not. How are these used? Are they melted down and used in plastic items?

LC: Yes, this is totally that. This is… this is the raw material to create these plastics. So, they are… they are transportation of them to big firms, and they are… what's the name of them? They are melting that, yes. And so after that, they create these kind of… of… of objects. But you see, this is a wide pollution that you can see everywhere in the world. I mean, it's an international thing.

NK: Lionel, I'm wondering if you can help our listeners try to visualize what you see, and the volunteers see, when you walk up to this beach? What… what does it look like when you arrive at the beach where all of these pellets are?

LC: That’s the thing is that this is a very… these pellets are really light, so it means that they go back to the sea quite easily. So one day, we see a very big wave, but the day after, the pellets goes into the sea. And after that, you can find them on the other beaches two days after. So, it was not really impressive when you arrived. But the first day, the very first day, when they had the pollution on Pornic Beach, it was really amazing. Oh, my God. Because there was… it was like a very white wave. Yes, it… it wasn't a lot of them, really.

NK: You know, when we were looking into the story, it made us think of Greek mythology and Sisyphus and pushing the rock up the hill, only to have it fall back down again. And I'm sure it feels like that to you and the volunteers. But you and those volunteers keep coming out to clean them up. Why do you keep coming back?

LC: Yeah. You're… you're… you're really right when you're speaking about this rock. This is totally that. But the thing to understand is that we were not really here to depollute the area because this is… this is a bit vain to imagine that we can depolute because this is too wide and this is very irreversible pollution. The idea is to… to sort and count all the waste that we find and in order to have a big database of this waste. And it’ll help us then after that to see all the public institution in France and in Europe to help to legislate.

NK: What is the technique specifically to dig these out? Because they said a grain of rice, but it's almost like, you know, Israeli couscous or… like, it's a small round… round, little orb, tiny, tiny, tiny. So, where do you even begin? How do you pick it out?

LC: Yeah, so, each… each volunteer has his own method. Some of them use the seeds to collect them. So the sands go through the seeds. And after that, there are only the microplastics remaining on it. Some… some of them just find them by digging into the sand and taking… picking them up one by one. So, each one has his own… his own way of doing that on the beach of Pornic, where I was on Saturday for the big collection that we made on several beaches. I was on Pornic, so we were like 150 people. And each one of them had his own way of doing that. So, looking carefully and digging and trying to find them and then collecting in a small pot or a bottle or something like that. And after that, we… we put them all together. And what we could find is that they are all the same colour and the same shapes and they seem to be in the same materials. So, we can imagine that it's the pollution coming from probably a loss of a container somewhere into the Atlantic Sea.

NK: Why hasn't the government undertaken any cleanup efforts? Why is it down to you and volunteers?

LC: Because… [chuckle] this is a question I don't really know, I have to say. Well, for the moment, what the government decided to do is to make some investigation.

NK: We know the mayor of Pornic and other local politicians have filed a legal complaint on this.

LC: Yes. Yes.

NK: France's environment minister has called this a, quote, environmental nightmare, and say they will pursue legal action. But again, is there one specific culprit? I mean, these beads don't have an identifying mark on them or a brand name on them, right?

LC: No, This is the… this is what is difficult. It's very difficult. And usually, when there is a loss of container, as it's not… it doesn't cost a lot of money. You see to use raw material, so the containers are not declared. So, it means that we don't know that there was a loss of container full of pellets in it. So, it is very, very difficult to do this investigation.

NK: Lionel, thank you very much for your time.

LC: Thank you to you.

CH: Lionel Cheylus works with Surfrider Foundation Europe. He's in Paris.

[music: chill]

FOA: Victor Navasky Obit

CH: In a 2005 interview with the Guardian, Victor Navasky recalled a formative moment while he was a young student attending the "Little Red School House" in New York. He said, "We had one Marxist history teacher. I remember he once asked where diamonds got their value. Someone said, 'Because they’re beautiful.' He said, 'No, no.' Someone else said, 'Supply and demand.' He said, 'No.' Someone else said, 'From the sweat of the workers in the mines!' And he said 'Right!'" Now, some would call that progressive teaching. At the time, most called it radical fringe brain-washing. But that crucial early lesson helped Victor Navasky become one of the most progressive journalists of his time. Mr. Navasky died on Monday. He was 90. He wrote influential and award-winning books about the anti-Communist blacklist and Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy. But he was most known for championing independent media, and for his own liberal weekly publication "The Nation.” In 1992, former As It Happens host Michael Enright spoke with Victor Navasky after Herbert Romerstein -- a former staff member of the The House Committee on Un-American Activities -- accused journalist I.F. "Izzy" Stone of being a paid KGB spy.

SOUNDCLIP

VICTOR NAVASKY: I give no credence to it any more than I gave credence to the other charges that Romerstein used to make when he made his debut in front of the Senate Internal Security Committee in 1951. And when he worked with… as part of the whole witch hunt apparatus back in those years.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Tell me more about that. We know he was a staff member, I think, for the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

VN: Well, he made his debut in front of the Senate Internal Security Committee at age 19, when he described his own membership in the Communist Party when he was 17. And then, he… he named his German teacher and his social science teacher and some fellow students at Sam Tilden High School as being subversive. I think he wrote a book called Communism and Your Child.

ME: Communism and Your Child?

VN: Yeah. You know, there's no evidence for anything that he said. It all comes down to an anonymous source, which he declines to name. He says Kalugin was referring to Stone, but Kalugin denies he was referring to Stone. First of all, it's absurd to take the word of an ex-KGB agent for anything. Secondly, it's doubly absurd to take the word of an ex-KGB agent who's trying to sell his memoirs. Thirdly, if you do take the word of the ex-KGB agent, he denied to our reporter Don Guttenplan, who is writing a biography of Izzy Stone, that he recruited Stone or that he paid Stone. And when Romerstein wrote that he denied that because he re-recruited them, Don Guttenplan called him up again and he denied that he re-recruited him. But even if he affirmed it, it wouldn't mean it was true because nothing is Stone's career would lead one to believe it was true. He was a critic of American policy, but he was a critic of the Soviet system. And even if he had been a fan of the Soviet system, there is nothing in his career to suggest that he would be on the take. And the evidence, so-called evidence, that Romerstein cited is laughable.

ME: Then it raises the question, why I.F. Stone and why now?

VN: Why do you do it? Either because you're obsessed and you're a little nuts because you're still living in the pre-Cold War, red-baiting world. Because you think you can make a buck out of it? I don't know. It would take a combination sociologists, psychiatrists, investigative journalists into the whole world of Romerstein’s psyche to understand that. I don't pretend to.

CH: From 1992, Victor Navasky speaking with Michael Enright about allegations that journalist I.F. "Izzy" Stone was a paid KGB spy. Mr. Navasky died on Monday. He was 90.

[music: world music]

FTR: AI Congress Speech

CH: Jake Auchincloss doesn't look, or sound, like a robot. the U.S. Congressman from Massachusetts is fresh-faced, passionate, and very much human. But today, in the House of Representatives, he did sound like a machine. Because his speech had been written by one. He asked the artificial intelligence program ChatGPT to generate a speech based on the following prompt. Quote, "You are Jake Auchincloss, a Member of Congress. Write 100 words to deliver on the floor of the House of Representatives. Topic: the importance of the United States–Israel Artificial Intelligence Center Act, which the congressman will re-introduce this term.” Unquote. Here is what the A.I. came up with, for the record.

SOUNDCLIP

JAKE AUCHINCLOSS: Mr. Speaker, I stand here today because I am planning to reintroduce the United States-Israel Artificial Intelligence Center Act, a bipartisan piece of legislation that will cement a mutually beneficial partnership between the United States and Israel on artificial intelligence research. This is a critical step forward in an era where AI and its implications are taking centre stage in public discourse. We must collaborate with international partners like the Israeli government to ensure that the United States maintains a leadership role in AI, research and development, and responsibly explores the many possibilities evolving technologies provide. The United States-Israel Artificial Intelligence Center Act will allow us to tap into the expertise of both countries, and draw upon each other's resources to explore and develop cutting edge AI advancements. I yield back.

CH: That was U.S. Congressman Jake Auchincloss delivering a speech on the floor of the House of Representatives today. That speech was written by artificial intelligence.

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January 25, 2023 Episode Transcript

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