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The AIH Transcript for August 12, 2022

PAUL HUNTER: Hello. I'm Paul Hunter.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening. I'm Talia Schlanger. This is As It Happens.

[Theme]

Prologue

TS: Tonight:

PH: Worth his weight class in gold. A wrestler wins gold and a historic first at the Canada Summer Games. But he says the sport changed his life long before the historic win.

TS: Twiddling his highly skilled thumbs. A physician from Afghanistan explains why he can't practise in his new home on PEI, even as emergency rooms close over lack of staff.

PH: Jumping down our throats. When researchers took a look at the voice boxes of dozens of mammals they discovered a surprising anatomical change that made human speech possible, and a whole lot nicer to listen to -- as our guest demonstrates.

TS: Close to the bone. A New Brunswick bone-marrow recipient meets the Edmonton man who saved his life by deciding to donate when he was a teenager.

PH: Sit-specific installation. An artist who planted a stone wingback on the ocean floor tells us -- so far -- the armchair critics have been giving wave reviews.

TS: And... emissions impossible. We reach one of the Dutch farmers who thinks their government's goal to cut nitrogen emissions by 50 per cent goes too far by half. So they are protesting with -- among other things -- huge loads of manure left in inconvenient places.

TS: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that thinks they’ve really out-dung themselves.

Part 1: Nunavut Wrestler, Dutch Farm Protest, Human Speech Study

Nunavut Wrestler

Guest: Eekeeluak Avalak

TS: He says wrestling changed his life. And now, Eekeeluak Avalak is at the peak of the game. After dedicating the gold medal match of the Canada Summer Games to his late brother, Mr. Avalak then went on to win his final bout yesterday afternoon -- becoming the first ever Nunavut athlete to win a medal at the Games -- let alone a gold medal. We reached Eekeeluak Avalak in Thorold, Ontario.

PH: Eekee, first off, big congratulations on winning Nunavut's of its first ever gold medal at the Canada Summer Games. How are you feeling?

EEKEELUAK AVALAK: I'm feeling good. Yeah, it feels nice to be a part of history and being able to represent not only my territory, but my family name.

PH: There's a photo taken just after the match and you're hugging your coach, Chris Crooks, and the look on your face just says it all. I think you're in tears. But you look in just this state of ecstasy.

EA: Oh yeah!

PH: How… how was your… how was your… the support of your coach? How did that get you to this point?

EA: It's a huge… it was a huge part of it. He took… him and his wife took me under their wing nearly two years ago. And we've had many talks up through the highs and the lows. Without him, and of course, everyone else around me, this wouldn't have been possible.

PH: Kind of turned your life around, as… as I think you've noted before?

EA: Yep.

PH: Going into the fight, you know, one of the things that I find so impressive about top athletes, such as yourself, is the ability to focus. So going into the fight, knowing you could soon be Nunavut’s first gold medalist, how are you feeling at that point?

EA: I wasn't trying to think of… I wasn't trying to think of the gold medal during the match. I was just thinking of go in there, fight, keep taking the centre and showing this is going to be my moment and you're not going to take it away. And that's exactly what I did. And I came out on top. And I just had to keep my composure. I knew I was up on points, and just fought hand control and kept defending every time he took a shot on me. So, I came out on top on that and it feels very nice.

PH: And how were you feeling as the fight went on? Did your confidence continue to grow as time passed?

EA: As time passed, and the time limit shortened, of course, my confidence grew. Like I said, I just had to keep my composure and not let him… and just had to let him know, hey, I'm here to fight. And I'm here to… I'm here to have fun and show him whose… whose moment it was. And it was my moment. It was all of Nubavut’s moment.

PH: Now, I know this might be hard for you to talk about, but what is your… what's your strength as a wrestler? What makes you so good at this?

EA: I just think of my ancestors. Like, they lived in one of the harshest conditions ever in the world. And just thinking of them. Comparing what they had to go through, I just… for that six minutes, that's all I had to do is keep my composure for that six whole minutes. And compare that to what my ancestors had to do. That was… I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's not… it's not as hard as what they had to go through. So, that was one of my others… that was one of my strengths. Another strength was thinking of my late brother. It was his birthday six days ago. And I just thought of what would he want me doing? And that gave me some strength, some more strength in… to being able to fight through that match.

PH: I saw the interview you gave right after winning, in which you dedicated your win to your brother. And I… and I'm… I know it's tough to talk about, but how much did his memory help you in achieving this?

EA: It played a big role in there. He was always… he always had a smile on his face. And he was very charismatic. And knowing that he would want me to focus on my wrestling and doing the best what I can… doing… doing good at what I do, and that's wrestling. And I came out on top. And as soon as the match was over, I ran to my coach and then I just let all the emotions out. It was… I was… I was… that's when I was able to let them out. Yeah. So I'm feeling a lot better.

PH: What do you think your brother would say about what you've achieved?

EA: Ah, he’d definitely give me a big hug, tell him to tell me he loves me and he's very proud of me. And he would tell me to just keep doing what I am doing and pursue my dreams.

PH: Nunavut’s first gold at the Canada Summer Games. I wonder what message you hope your achievement sends to others in Nunavut -- athletes and non-athletes -- about the ability to succeed?

EA: You're always going to go through… you’re always going to hit bumps, and you're going to fall down, but keep getting up because it'll be worth it in the end. Trust me. I hope to inspire others. And if I can change, so can anyone else. It's never too late.

PH: Where's that gold medal right now?

EA: Ah, in my hand.

PH: [laughing] In your hand. What a good place for it. What's next for you? So, you got a gold medal now in your hand. What's next for you?

EA: Ah, I'm going to go home and relax, spend time with family, then make my move down to Edmonton to upgrade my classes for university and continue my wrestling career.

PH: Fantastic. Tell me, since it's in your hand, what does it look like? Describe it for me.

EA: Ah. It's quite… quite heavy-looking. It's all shiny. And, ah, yeah, it's… it's beautiful. But like my coach says, if you're nothing without the medal, you'll never be anything without the medal. The medal is just a bonus for me. The real victory for me is inspiring people.

PH Wow. No wonder he's a good coach. Ekee You've earned that. Congratulations again. Thank you for talking with us today.

EA: No problem. Thank you.

PH: Bye-bye.

PH: Bye.

TS: Eekeeluak Avalak won Nunavut's gold in wrestling at the Canada Summer Games. We reached him in Thorold, Ontario.

[chillhop]

Dutch Farm Protest

Guest: Ad Baltus

TS: Dutch farmers have been dumping garbage and manure onto major roads. They’re riding tractors through city centres. They’re showing up unannounced to government ministers’ homes. Earlier this year, the Dutch government announced a plan to cut nitrogen emissions in half by 2030. A lot of those emissions are produced by the combination of fertilizer and livestock -- specifically… their poop. The restriction means, for many farmers, cutting down animals or on fertilizers, and both have a big impact on their bottom line. Small protests are springing up across Canada, partly in support of Dutch farmers and partly due weariness of the Canadian government’s own goal, which is a smaller cut in nitrogen emissions of 30 per cent by the end of the decade. Ad Baltus is a farmer and protestor in the Netherlands. We reached him near Alkmaar in The Netherlands.

PH: Ad, what would the effect be for you and your farm of a 50% cut of nitrogen emissions?

AD BALTUS: Ah, that will be… that affect will be… be a great… you'll see that your cost will be the same. And when you have to reduce 50 per cent of nitrogen, the income will be 50 per cent less. So, that's… that's a big issue. Your farm is, on that day, not profitable again.

PH: Your farm would lose 50 per cent of its income?

AB: Yeah, that's… that's what the government wants. They say we reduce 50 per cent of nitrogen, and that… that… the effect of that is that is you lose… you lose 50 per cent of your income.

PH: What does your farm look like right now?

AB: Our farm is a family farm. We have 130 milking cows and about 70 hectares. And I think in Canada, that will be 170 acres. That's… that's the amount of ground I have.

PH: And if you had to make those kinds of cuts, what would it mean for your family? What would it mean for your own livelihood?

AB: Ah, that… that will be a problem. When you lose that amount of income, you have to search for another job to… to compensate that. So, I have to be a carpenter or an electrician or… or that kind of thing to… to make a living for us. It has a lot of effects for our farm.

PH: And now we're seeing these protests happening across the Netherlands. And you've taken part in a couple of them. What's it been like at these protests?

AB: The protests are very different. Some protests are very hard. And some protests are very people-friendly. It's a thin line for the farmers. We want to have support of the civilians in the towns. And when we protest too hard, you lose sympathy of people in town. You see, Holland is a very crowded land with cities, farms nearby. So we… we have the support we need from the people in town. That support gives us the licence to produce. So, when you protest very people-friendly, the government says, oh, let, let the farmers protest. There is nobody who has effect on it. And when you protest too hard, then the civilians say, hmm, is that necessary? That kind of protest blocking roads or making… making car tires on fire. So, it's a thin line which you have to walk on.

PH: Well, how do you walk that line? What do you do? Are you riding around on tractors, honking horns? What… how do you walk that line?

AB: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's… that's what we do. Go to… to fairs. Then we let see what… what we are doing on our farms. Sometimes, if you see the hard protests and that's what you see on the… on the news mainly. So, it's all kinds of protest. And not every farmer wants to protest the same way. There are farmers who say, we go… we go hard. And there are farmers that say even that's… that's a little bit too much for us.

PH Now, at the heart of all this is climate change. There's a heat wave hitting much of Europe right now.

AB: Yeah, yeah. Correct.

PH: There are massive forest fires in France. This is happening, right?

AB: Yeah.

PH: Now, cutting your income, it sounds like a steep sacrifice. People need to eat, but the world also needs to survive, right? So, what do you say to people who say this is a necessary sacrifice for the greater good? What is being asked?

AB: Now, the Dutch farmers agree on all the things you say, but it's the way the government wants to implement these things. We… we… we say as farmers we can do a lot for the climate. With 10 billion people on planet Earth, we need farmers for our food. But the government wants now big changes. It's not possible to produce food for all the people in the world. And farmers will change. But we need time for changing. And we need a government who supports us in that change. And now, you see a government who is getting rid of all family farms. And I don't think that's the good… the good idea.

PH: In Canada, the suggestion is a cut of 30 per cent to nitrogen emissions. You're facing a 50 per cent cut. How does 30 per cent sound to you?

AB: I think 30 per cent is possible to do. But we need… we need some time for that. You cannot reduce 30 per cent in… in… in a few… few years. We need some time for that. And when we… when we have the time, there will be innovations. There will be other ways to farm. I think with implementation of clover. Clover is a blend to get the nitrogen out of the air. So, you implement it in your grass some clover plants. Those plants get the nitrogen out of the air and give it to the grass. So, there are lots of ways to reduce nitrogen and carbon emissions, but we need time, and I think we are going too fast now to implement all those things.

PH: Do you have any sense the protests are having an effect? Do you think it's going to change anything?

AB: Yeah, I think that there is an effect. Scientists are coming out with new research, and they… they support the farmers by saying what government wants now is not a good way. It's not a good way to get rid of the farm. It's a good way to… to change farming. And that's what we say for three years now. Give us time, give us innovations, and then we can… we can do it. But government wants to get rid of our farmers, and that's why we are dead angry.

PH: I can sense that anger, Ad. I appreciate your time in speaking with us today.

AB: You're welcome.

PH: Bye-bye.

AB: Goodbye.

TS: Ad Baltus is a farmer and protestor in the Netherlands. We reached him near Alkmaar in The Netherlands.

[uke!!!]

Human Speech Study

Guest: Tecumseh Fitch

TS: Evolution doesn't always mean making something more sophisticated and complex. Sometimes pairing something down -- like your vocal membranes, for example -- can lead to some pretty complicated and sophisticated results. [singsong] Like the ability to sing a beautiful melody, or even the [said like I'm Ron Burgundy?!] ability to make your voice sound like you're asking a question? When it comes to the human voice, it turns out we've been doing a lot more with a lot -- at least compared to other primates. A group of scientists have discovered that the human larynx is simpler than other primates', which has allowed our unique voices to evolve. Tecumseh Fitch is a co-author of the study, published yesterday in the journal Science. He is also a professor of cognitive biology at the University of Vienna. We reached him on Sanibel Island, Florida.

PH: Professor Fitch, how surprised were you by the results of your study?

TECUMSEH FITCH: Well, what surprised us is that all of the other primates we looked at had these vocal membranes. That was the surprise. We knew that humans didn't have them, so that wasn't that surprising.

PH: And so what did that tell you? What did you learn?

TF: Well, it shows us that earlier in human evolution or in hominid evolution, that we had these vocal membranes and that we lost them. Since our separation from the chimpanzees about six million years ago, we lost the structure that characterizes most other primates.

PH: So tell us how the larynx works.

TF: Basically, when we exhale through our lungs, these two little bits of tissue in our larynx, people call them the vocal cords, though technically the vocal folds. And those vocal folds vibrate back and forth. And the rate at which they vibrate determines the pitch of your voice. So [low-sounding ughhhh] would be very low. And [high-sounding ah] would be… [PH chuckles] that's the vocal folds vibrating at a very high frequency when I make the highest pitch.

PH: And so how does that allow us to have more sort of complex speech and, for that matter, song?

TF: I wouldn't say complex. So the thing about the vocal membranes, what they give, let's say, a chimpanzee is a very wide vocal range. So they can sing very low notes and very high notes. They extend across the human vocal range, like from a bass to the highest notes a soprano can make. So that's an amazing ability that they have, and it makes their voices louder. But the downside is that it makes the voice unstable. So their voices are more likely to go from [a not pleasant low note shifted to a high note] into a kind of screamy, croaky [this songs like off-key Tarzan] or irregular sound. [PH chuckles] And what we think happened is that when we lost those, it made our voice more stable. It made our pitch more stable, which is what you need for singing, obviously, to hit the notes and not go [pig squeal]. Unless you're a death metal singer, you don't want to have that sound in your voice. And also, for speech, it enables, for example, tonal languages to make all these distinctions. And half the world's languages are tonal languages like Chinese or Thai. But it also gives… in a language like English or German. It allows us to emphasize certain words. To ask questions versus answers, you know? And so, this control over our voice pitch is really important as a part of the communicative signal in speech and song.

PH: I guess Charles Darwin might say that this quirky, random development allowed us to speak, thus allowed us to prosper? Is that how that would… would the thinking go that way, perhaps?

TF: Well, Charles Darwin thought very interestingly that actually before we evolved language, we evolved song. That we started off as singing apes, and so, I think if Darwin were here, he might suggest, no, this wasn't about speech, this was about giving us more control for singing. And that speech came later. That speech was bolted on to this earlier evolving singing system. That's Darwin's hypothesis. Of course, no one really knows for sure. And I would be open-minded about it. But yeah, I think what's cool about this is that this is a case where less is more. But by losing a structure, we gain a capability that wouldn't be there in… in other nonhuman primates, a capability to really have nice control over our voices.

PH: And what primates did you study?

TF: Boy! So many. I mean, there are 43 different species. So we did all the apes, the great apes, chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans. We did siamang, gibbons. We did squirrel monkeys. We did titis, we did guenons and macaques and baboons. I mean, really, a very long list of primates. And that was what was surprising. In all of these species, we found vocal membranes of one sort or the other. So we're really the outliers. We're very unusual primates in lacking these structures.

PH: Which I guess explains why we are the only creatures that communicate in speech as we understand speech. I always think of, you know, animals communicating with noises, like low-level communication, but we can be so specific with how we communicate. That's the difference, right?

TF: Yeah, but I would not say that this… this one change that we've documented gave us language or gave a speech. It's one part of a larger puzzle. I think the most important changes that gave us language were actually mental changes, neural changes, changes in our brain anatomy, in our brain connections. So, it's not the case that this gave us language. This is… this gave us a better control over our voice. Maybe it turned a bunch of bad singers into good singers or a bunch of irregular-voiced people who were easily misunderstood into more regular-voiced people. But it alone is not the whole story by any means.

PH: I always wonder, was there a eureka moment for you? Did you suddenly… was there a point where you said, hey, wait a minute. Every single one of these other primates has this thing that we don't have. And, like, the old light bulb going off over your head kind of thing.

TF: Well, there were at least… there were several eureka moments in this whole process. This was a very long, extended study. So some of the data from this comes from the 80s. So… but eureka moment number one was when we were looking at a squirrel monkey, we… he was anesthetized, he was vocalizing, and we could see into his vocal folds. And suddenly, he went into this [like a baby cry] like a crying baby. And we got so excited. [PH chuckles] The guy who we were working with was like, oh, that always happens. But we could see that that was irregular vocalizations. And we could see what was happening, that these vocal membranes were going into a chaotic, irregular vocalization. And so that was like, wow, okay, that's what's going on there. But by the time we got to 40 primates, and they all had them, then there was the second eureka moment of knowing humans must have lost this. Humans in our earlier evolutionary history had these vocal membranes and air sacs. And we lost them both.

PH: Hmm. I want you to picture me with a conductor's baton in my hand because I want to hear those noises one more time. Let's… let's go. Humans first. And then primates. Give me a human.

TF: Which one did you want? Singing or screaming or what?

PH: Dealer's choice. Take your pick.

TF: Okay. So a human could do something like [singing an ascending scale of notes] and do these kind of high notes. Whereas if I had vocal membranes and I tried to do the same thing, I would go, [off-key notes]. You know, get this kind of choked, irregular, chaotic sound in the voice.

PH: [chuckling] I love it. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much for your work and for taking the time today, Tecumseh.

TF: Sure. I hope you have a good show.

PH: Thanks. Bye-bye.

TF: Bye.

TS: Tecumseh Fitch is a professor of cognitive biology at the University of Vienna and a co-author of a new vocal anatomy study in primates. We reached him on Sanibel Island, Florida.

[chillhop]

Part 2: Prince Edward Island Foreign Trained Doctors, Ocean Floor Art

Prince Edward Island Foreign Trained Doctors

Guest: Dr. Khaled Salar

TS: Over the weekend, the emergency department at Western Hospital in Alberton, Prince Edward Island, was closed. This comes after another emergency room in the province was also closed for the summer, all because of continued staff shortages. Doctor Khaled Salar trained as a doctor in Afghanistan and worked there for several years before coming to Canada through the special settlement program last year, but despite the need, he can't practice in the province. He joined us from Charlottetown, P.E.I.

PH: Khaled, could you tell us about what you are seeing happening on P.E.I. at the moment when it comes to the doctor and nurses shortage?

DR. KHALED SALAR: Honestly, I was going through my Twitter the other day, and I saw the news that was posted on there in regards to the E.R.s closing down for… for the public until the end of the week. And for me, that was shocking because considering the fact that we are living in… in Canada, and Canada is pretty known for… for the health-care and so on. So for me, it was very shocking to hear that the E.R.s were closing down in two of the communities in P.E.I. And then, I realized that it's because of the shortage of health-care providers and doctors. And for me, I honestly, I could put myself in the place of somebody that's rushing their loved one to the E.R. And then, being turned away because the E.R. is closed. And what would you do then? That… that's very hard to do in that situation. And as doctors… as a doctor, and I'm sure there are others on the island who are trained doctors and went through the whole schooling… for me, it was seven years. And it was definitely not an easy seven years. We required a lot of work to be able to get through that seven years. And just thinking about being a doctor who can't do anything in this situation where the province really needs doctors, and to consider that technicalities are really challenging in not creating an environment where doctors could work as doctors.

PH: Where was your training? Just… I'm just curious.

DKS: I went to Herat University Medical School, which is one of the top universities in the country. And that's where I did my schooling, and that's my hometown.

PH: So, when you came to Canada from Afghanistan, you had been working as a doctor. So what was your plan when you got to P.E.I. last year?

DKS: Well, I was hoping to… to be able to start off my career as a doctor or as a specialty resident at one of the hospitals because I had heard that there was a shortage of doctors in P.E.I before arriving here. So I thought, you know, this would be a perfect fit.

PH: And as it stands, you can't do that. Why can't you practice medicine in that province?

DKS: Yeah, so what happens is that when I got here, I started researching, and I talked to the association that's helping newcomers here, and I started researching the process. The process is… it's pretty expensive and also very time-consuming because it's for everybody in the world. So everybody from… from Pakistan, India, China, Afghanistan, whoever, a doctor that wants to come to Canada and practice, they would have to go through that process. I feel like it's kind of expensive because it is effort-consuming and resource-consuming for the government. They want to make it expensive for people to come if they really… if they really mean it, to pay all that money if they really mean it. But for… for PR and for citizens who live in Canada at the moment and are doctors, I think the approach should be different because, you know, we… we are here already. And why not use this capacity in order to resolve the shortage?

PH: Now, some provinces have what's called an assessment and mentorship program that… that makes it a little bit easier. What… what options… are there options available for you to be licensed in P.E.I.?

DKS: Well, yeah, some of the provinces in Canada have started that sort of an expedited process. But unfortunately, P.E.I. and I think none of the maritime provinces have really took that initiative yet.

PH: Provincial government in P.E.I. told our CBC colleague Steve Bruce that it is working with the colleges to, this is a quote, make sure the recognition process is as quick and efficient as possible while still upholding our standards for care and training in P.E.I's health system. Do you feel P.E.I's working fast enough to make this happen?

DKS: Um, I don't know. I don't know, to be honest. Because I mean, we shouldn't be in the situation that we are at the moment. That… that work has to be really done fast, as they're claiming to be, because the situation could… could get worse. I mean, God forbid, if... if COVID really hits again this year and we're at the situation that we are currently, it could get worse.

PH: And there you sit, a trained doctor. There is, as you note, and you see every day, a tremendous need. What's it like for you to be hearing about all this and seeing all this, knowing that you could help and not being able to help?

DKS: Well, I mean, I do… I do realize that the health-care system has to uphold to the standards that… that they do and make sure that if they do bring in new doctors, they are… they are capable of doing the work, and they have the knowledge and the training and so on. But I think, and what was disappointing is that I do understand those and I do agree with those as well. And I think I have the knowledge and the training, and the capacity. But also, you know, why not do a training and mentorship program like they do in other provinces? And this has been ongoing in Europe for… for many years. Doctors from other countries could go there, start a mentorship program, get paid less than, you know, an actual trained doctor in Europe. But then, after a couple of years, once they were done with the training program, they would get licensed. They would go out there and work as doctors.

PH: So, what do you do for a living?

DKS: Currently, I am a project manager at a software development company.

PH: [laughing] There you are, as you sit, a trained medical doctor.

DKS: Yeah, I don't… I don't really utilize any of my medical training down at the office unless if somebody needs emergency first aid.

PH: Of course!

DKS: Which is the only time that I would be able to use that knowledge there. [chuckle]

PH: What do you think? Are you… do you allow yourself to hope that you will be able to get back to medicine eventually?

DKS: Well, that's my long-term goal. And I hope there… there is someday a way that I could use that training and all that effort and work. But at the moment, I mean, at the near future, I don't think that's possible for me. I mean, also, considering my own circumstances, I have to support my family. I have a child coming on the way. So, it's not going to be easy for me to just leave my work and start preparing for her for the exams that currently require doctors to do.

PH: Khaled, if you don't mind me calling you Dr. Salar. Thank you. Thank you for your time on this.

DKS: No problem. Thank you. Happy to be able to raise awareness on this very important issue.

PH: Thank you. Bye-bye.

TS: Doctor Khaled Salar trained as a doctor in Afghanistan and moved to P.E.I. He joined us from Charlottetown.

[calypso]

Keremeos Creek Wildfire

TS: As the Keremeos Creek wildfire raged in British Columbia, people in the small town of Ollala in the Kelowna area were forced to flee their homes. On Wednesday, some got the green light to head back. While the immediate danger seems to have passed, the town remains on evacuation alert, and residents need to be ready to pick up and go again at a moment's notice. Shannon Joe of Ollala made it home with her two preteen granddaughters yesterday.

[sc]

SHANNON JOE: I'm excited to go home, but what I have done is we left Keremeos yesterday. I have my two granddaughters that live with me. And I just wanted to get them out of the area so that they could have a break from, you know, the monotony of staying at the motel and just waiting. And so we've come to Salmon Arm, which is… we're we're enjoying a little bit of a holiday just because we didn't know what else to do. It's just been extremely smoky. And we were staying in a motel that, you know, a lot of the people that were also staying there were in the same situation as us. Everybody's, you know, trying to help each other as best as they can. And the support that everyone's received has been incredible. People helping one another and the support system that the town has given us, you know, as far as motels food, people are getting help with, you know, food for their pets. Even… you know, they even have like dog leashes and collars. And you go to the centre, and they're saying, would you like something to drink? Would you like something to eat? You know, like it's just… it's incredible, actually, how it's been dealt with. The 12-year-old, my 12-year-old granddaughter, got very panicky. Okay. And about so many things. About… you know, about her home, about her belongings, about just being displaced, you know? And my other granddaughter just cried. She cried and cried. [crying] But because of all the people that fought the fire, it sounds like we're going to be able to go home. So, it's all going to be okay, you know? And, you know, it just makes you appreciate… appreciate your home more than before this whole situation happened, you know?

[/sc]

TS: That was Shannon Joe of Ollala, British Columbia, speaking to CBC's Radio West.

[ambient]

Ocean Floor Art

Guest: Barbara Anne MacKintosh

TS: Art aficionados AND sitting enthusiasts rejoice! If you happen to be in Nova Scotia taking a dip in St. Margarets Bay -- make sure to take some time to check out the hottest new art exhibit in town. You'll have to get a little wet, though. A miniature stone armchair on the ocean floor is delighting divers who come upon it. We spoke with the artist who carved the sculpture out of limestone about how her creation ended up with the crustaceans. Her name is Barbara Anne MacKintosh, and we reached her in Edmonton.

PH: So, Barbara Anne, tell me about this chair. If I was swimming around underwater in St Margaret's Bay, and I was getting a little bit knackered, could I sit on it?

BARBARA ANNE MACKINTOSH: No, you could not! [both chuckle]

PH: Short answer. Okay.

BAM: It is quite small. It's quite a bit smaller than a regular armchair.

PH: How small is it?

BAM: I would say it's actually about 60… 50 centimetres tall, I think?

PH: Oh, big enough for a lobster, though.

BAM: Yes. Yeah.

PH: [chuckle] What does it… what does it look like? Describe it for me.

BAM: It's like a classic wingback chair, big round arms, high back, rounded at the top. It does have very fat legs because it's so heavy. I needed something to support it. So, not the general elegant, curvy legs you would find on a chair like that.

PH: And it's made of limestone?

BAM: Yeah, limestone.

PH: What inspired you to create this thing?

BAM: It started… I'm a big fan of second-hand stores. And I found this chair slightly smaller than the stone chair, like a doll's chair. And I just thought I'd never seen anything in that size before. Like, I've seen, like, miniatures, and I've seen, you know, full-size, but it fell into a bracket that I'd never come across. And I was like, I can do something with that eventually. So I took it home. And when I got to my stone carving class, we all had to pick out a block of limestone. And I picked out my block. And then, I was trying to think what would fit really nicely into this block, and I thought of the chair. So, that's what I ended up doing.

PH: So I'm guessing as you're carving it, chiselling away, that you're not thinking one day I'm going to put this at the bottom of the sea, right? [chuckling] Which is where it sits now. So how did it end up there?

BAM: Well, I had to move back to Edmonton in September. And I was… I'm really fond of the chair. And I didn't want to just throw it out, but it was too big to move with me. And I couldn't find anyone who just wanted a tiny stone chair that weighed a ton in their house. [both chuckle]

PH: Really?

BAM: And then I thought, hey, this could maybe go underwater! The freediving club might be able to put this down for me. So I contacted our Halifax Freediving Club president, and I was like, you think this is something everyone would be interested in? She's like, oh, yeah, for sure. [PH chuckles] So I'm really grateful to them because they had to put it down without me. And it was a lot of work. It's very heavy. I think it took like four people and a float to get it down. So I'm very grateful to them for that.

PH: Jeepers! So, like, have you… so you haven't seen it yourself in situ, as it were? You've not gone to visit?

BAM: No, I haven't. I've been in Edmonton since they put it down.

PH: Is there… is there like a webcam on it or anything crazy like that?

BAM: I wish! That would be fantastic. Someone suggested that to me earlier today. I thought that was such a good idea.

PH: Well… but people dive to go take a look. Is that right? Like, is it like a little underwater tourist attraction at this point? And what are you hearing from people who… who swim by and… and go, oh, a chair?

BAM: Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting now. Every now and then, someone will post a picture of it online, and scuba diver or free diver. And someone will tag me in it, and then I get to see it. And there'll be other comments like, hey, I saw that! Someone was like my chair, and I was like, oh, I think it's my chair. [both chuckle] And so, stuff like that. And it just… it makes me so happy to see how popular it's gotten to be.

PH: I was going to say!

BAM And that so many people are familiar with it.

PH: Yeah!

BAM: I just think that's the coolest thing.

PH: Yeah. What are you going to do for an encore?

BAM: Oh, my goodness. I don't know. [both laugh] I'm thinking about it, but I'm not sure.

PH: Something… something, and you can plop it in the North Saskatchewan River in Edmonton or something like that.

BAM: [laughing] Yeah, maybe.

PH: [laughing] Maybe. That's a firm maybe, Paul.

BAM: Well, I don't think anyone would ever get to see it.

PH: Fair point. Well, one day, may you go back to St Margaret's Bay and have a look for yourself?

BAM: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm hoping to go back next summer.

PH: Well, happy diving.

BAM: Thank you.

PH: Thanks, Barbara Anne. Nice chatting.

BAM: Yeah, thank you, Paul.

PH: Bye-bye.

TS: Barbara Anne MacKintosh is an artist who carved a miniature stone armchair that sits on the ocean floor. We reached her in Edmonton.

[chillhop]

Marrow Donation

TS: As a teenager, we make a lot of big choices. Like where exactly to pierce our bodies. Or what tattoo would scare our parents the most? Well, around 28 years ago, one Alberta high school student made a different kind of massive, lifesaving, decision. Cory Sandstra from Edmonton decided to donate bone marrow. And that donation ended up being very important to David Boudreau from New Brunswick. It helped treat his non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma a few years back. Here's Cory talking about the day they first met face-to-face, which was just last week at David's 30th-anniversary party.

[sc]

CORY SANDSTRA: Yeah, it was incredible. It was really incredible. Great. It's one of those things that, you know, it's a once-in-a-lifetime type of experience and feeling that is pretty hard to describe. I was elated to be able to surprise him and his family. But overwhelmed with the wrapping… arms wrapping around me from family and friends that were there to celebrate their 30th anniversary. And the surprise as it unfolded, as we met him, was just a really, truly remarkable experience. And it's great to be out there.

BRETT RUSKIN: And David, what was it like to get that surprise from the person who effectively saved your life?

DAVID BOUDREAU: I thought I was dreaming when I turned… when they made me turn around, and he was right there with his family, you know? So, yeah, it was… you know, for me it was, you know, really special because, like you said, he's the guy who saved my life. And it’s just quite emotional.

BR: And so, what… what happened at that moment? Like, where were you? How did it go? What was it like to meet Cory for the first time in-person?

DB: Yeah, we were… like Cory said, it was our 30th anniversary. And… and the family prepared something at the… at the gun club. And, you know, we… we arrived there. We knew there was something going on. But I… I didn't… you know, in my thinking, you know, I never imagined that I was going to see Cory and his family, you know, right there. So the speaker told us to turn around, and he was right there. And at first, I thought I was dreaming [chuckle], but he was really there. So, yeah, you know, I at first was… you know, I gave him a hug and then we had to do a speech. I can hardly do a speech because it was… it was quite, quite emotional for me, so.

BR: Yeah, I bet it was kind of shocking and exciting and surprising and wonderful?

DB: Yeah, it was like everything. Like, you know, I couldn't… I couldn't believe it, so.

BR: And Cory, can you remind us how you became a donor?

CS: Yeah, I'd love to share that. I mean, really sharing this whole story for me, all this is all about is trying to encourage as many people as possible to consider getting on the unrelated bone marrow donor registry. And that's how my story began. When I was in high school, there was a girl in my class that was very philanthropic and wanted to encourage everyone to get on the registry. And at the time, I didn't know a whole bunch about it. So we did. She convinced pretty much our whole graduating class to do the swab and get our… our blood typing on the registry to give someone a chance. And over time, that's changed now. It's no longer the unrelated bone marrow donor registry. It's called the one match, the stem cell network, which is part of Canadian Blood Services. So, it's super convenient to be able to… to get on the registry and add your profile on there. And most people will never, ever get a match, but it gives someone out there some amount of hope that there could be a match out there. So, literally takes two minutes to do a swab of your mouth, and they put you're typing on the registry, and then they have something to cross-reference against when someone like David is looking for a match.

BR: Anything you want to say to Cory, David?

DB: Corey. Well, he's my hero and my… my brother, my angel. So, thank you for everything you did. And hopefully next time, I will be going to Edmonton. [chuckle]

BR: Cory, what do you think? You're going to have David as a guest?

CS: Absolutely. I'm more than happy to do it again, David. And you are my blood brother. So we'll always be in touch.

[/sc]

TS: That was David Boudreau in New Brunswick and his bone marrow donor Cory Sandstra from Edmonton, speaking today on CBC's Maritime Noon with host Brett Ruskin.

[uke!!!]

SOD: Rare White Orca

TS: Mike Dobbs was working in Beaver Cove on northern Vancouver Island when he got a big surprise. Two killer whales -- one of them a rare white orca -- swam into the beach area a few kilometres inland from Telegraph Cove. Mr. Dobbs says he had never encountered whales on that beach, and experts say it's the first sighting of the white orca known "Frostbite" north of California. In fact, there are only two other known white orcas in the world. Here's what the orcas sounded like off the coast of Vancouver Island.

[sc]

[a short of low huffing, followed by higher squeeks]

[/sc]

TS: Our Sound of the Day, a rare white orca spotted in Beaver Cove off the coast of Vancouver Island on Wednesday.

August 12, 2022 Episode Transcript

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