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The AIH Transcript for March 23 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: The unremarkable becomes the unimaginable. A man in Boulder, Colorado, stopped to grab a can of pop at a grocery store yesterday when he heard gunshots. He'll tell us about surviving an attack that killed 10 people.

CH: Unnatural disasters. An Australian midwife says she's used to bushfires and floods. But after barely escaping both with her family in the past year and a half, she doesn't think she'll ever return home.

CO: Cruel, but not unusual. A new report exposes a horrifying rise in anti Asian racism in Canada, logging over 1100 incidents from verbal harassment to violent assault.

CH: Net gain. Whatever the outcome of tomorrow night's Raptors game, it'll be a win for representation. We'll speak with a member of the all women crew that will be helming TSN's tv broadcast.

CO: A Real Wise Guide. With a new book about the late author of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in the works. His sister says she hopes its insights into Douglas Adams' mind will inspire readers to ask the right questions and make the world a better place.

CH: And between a rock star and a hard place, Meatloaf will preside over a new reality show in which couples will face absurd and frightening physical challenges. And if that sounds dangerous, possibly exciting and unnecessary. Well, two out of three ain't bad. As It Happens, the Tuesday edition, radio that hopes all's fair in loaf and war.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Colorado Shooting Witness

Colorado Shooting Witness

Guest: Ryan Broofsky

CH: They were doing something we usually do without thinking grocery shopping, and then the unthinkable happened. Tonight, we're learning more about the 10 people who died in an attack at a King Soopers supermarket in Boulder, Colorado. The victims were between 20 and 65 years old. One was a police officer. Another was a grocery store employee. Another was retired with two children. A suspect is in custody. He's been charged with 10 counts of first degree murder. A law enforcement official has told the Associated Press that the gunman used an AR 15 rifle. This afternoon US President Joe Biden spoke about what happened in Colorado.

JOE BIDEN: We're still waiting for more information regarding the shooter, his motive, the weapons he used, the guns, the magazines, the weapons, the modifications that apparently have taken place to those weapons that are involved here. I don't need to wait another minute, let alone an hour, to take common sense steps that will save lives in the future and urge my colleagues in the House and Senate to act. We can ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines in this country. Once again. I got that done when I was a senator. It passed. It was law for the longest time and it brought down these mass killings. We should do it again. We can close the loopholes in our background check system, including the Charleston loophole. That's one of the best tools we have right now to prevent gun violence.

CH: That was US President Joe Biden speaking earlier today. Ryan Broofsky witnessed the shooting at the grocery store. We reached him in Boulder, Colorado.

CO: Ryan, first of all, how are you?

RYAN BROOFSKY: As far as my emotions, they're up, down. Very calm, some moments and more emotional others.

CO: It's been almost 24 hours. When did you first realise yesterday that something was going on at King Soopers supermarket

RB: First loud bang. Wasn't sure what that first loud bang was. Second loud bang told me it wasn't an accident. And the third loud bang made me feel pretty certain there was gunfire. It was pretty quick figuring out something wrong, especially with somebody running at me who was wearing a terrified look on her face.

CO: So this was, you were in the store, right? Were you just heading... Were you doing some grocery shopping?

RB: I decided to get a soda, just needed a sugar fix and some caffeine. Along with that, I decided, you know, maybe I'll get some ice cream, maybe some chips. I decided against the ice cream and towards the bag of chips. And a moment later, the gunfire started.

CO: Could you see the shooter?

RB: No. Just sound.

CO: But you can see people running and did you know which way to go?

RB: I knew where the shots were coming from. So being able to position where they were in relation to me. I knew that if I tried to go for the other front exit, the West exit, I would have been in the line of fire. And so I ran with other people. And when we got to the back, there were employees who we were informing that there was a shooter and they helped to show us the way out of their loading dock.

CO: And how did people leave? Was it a mad rush? How did... Describe your movement out of the store?

RB: As soon as I started running up an aisle, you know, I probably quickly caught up to other people who were in that aisle further back. You know, I told them to run while there were still people running behind me. When we were in the back of the house, I could feel a hand on my back and I placed a hand on the back of the person in front of me to make sure everybody was moving and not tripping. As soon as everybody got out the door. We had to jump underneath a truck and then everybody scattered and emotion came out after we got clear of the building.

CO: At what point did it sink in what you had just been through?

RB: I immediately called the police. I called my wife immediately after. When I called the police, you know, it was easy to speak to them, but, you know, trying to tell my wife what happened, you know, made my voice quake and stammering and stuttering and, you know, it took me probably a minute before I could tell her.

CO: And when did you learn? How did you learn that people had been killed, including a police officer?

RB: I waited around the scene for a couple hours afterwards, hoping to maybe retrieve my car, a couple of dudes lived in the apartments nearby, took me in, gave me a glass of water, gave me a chance to sit down and relax while they told me some of the news that had happened. So I wasn't doing a lot of news watching yesterday and still not much today, but I had to charge my phone at a second point and I got more updates. And today I was in an interview and they interrupted the interview for a press conference in which they read the victims names. And I was grateful to not be one of them. [gets choked up].

CO: Your wife must have been very worried when she got that call.

RB: Yeah, she wanted me to keep running.

CO: But but you stayed.

RB: I wanted to see it resolve. That's what I... That's what was begging in me. There is a lot of gawkers, you know, just a lot of just people. Who were walking by in the neighbourhood and decided to make a scene out of it and spectate, and it was different for me. I wanted to know it was over. It took really... It was so long, you know, so I decided to walk all the way home, you know, took about two and a half hours, but it was good to walk.

CO: But the time in the story, the time from when you heard the first shot to when you got out the door, how long was that?

RB: As fast as I could. Sixty seconds, maybe. Two minutes. Yeah. I mean, how long does it take you to run down a grocery aisle, you know, so that times three, maybe it takes you a minute to walk down it. So I don't know, a minute and a half total.

CO: And how many times have you replayed that 90 seconds in your head?

RB: Different pieces of it. The first three shots I think are the most memorable. And I don't know, I'm trying to replay some things. I didn't see anybody left behind. That I was with, you know, like people I thought everybody who was running with me stayed with me. So, I'm a little worried about that.

CO: Because you don't think they got out?

RB: [Choking on his words] I don't like the idea that they were stuck, you know, that they had to hide. I talked about that with my wife, if I had to hide for forty five minutes, that would have been so much worse and I hope that everybody who saw me running followed me because I made it out.

CO: But, you know, there's nothing more you could have done.

RB: I know, I wish there was. Like I just wish I was like behind the gunman or something or. You know, even if. Even if he had had a knife instead of a gun, it would have been a completely different experience. I would not have ran out the back door. I would have found other large males, you know, employees, you know, people strong enough to assault somebody with a knife. But, you know, I can take a knife, stabbing and maybe stand a chance against a knife attacker, but not somebody with a rifle. You know, I can't even approach them from the other side of the room.

CO: This is a man with an AR 15 rifle. This is a very, very powerful weapon. There's nothing more you could have done, Ryan.

RB: I know.

CO: This is the rifle, the type of weapon that has been used in many of these kinds of shootings in the United States. Did you ever think that this could happen in Boulder?

RB: Not here, you know, I was an Uber driver for a while and I don't know if they were from Toronto, but they once told me this couple told me Boulder is the most Canadian city in America, is that it's, you know, friendly and clean and, you know, has a lot of shared values. And, yeah, it feels very, very safe, 99.999 Percent of the time.

CO: Ryan, all I can say is I'm glad you're OK. Don't blame yourself. There's nothing more you could have done.

RB: Thank you.

CO: And I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

RB: You're welcome.

CO: All right.

RB: Have a great day.

CO: You too. Bye.

CH: Ryan Broofsky witnessed the shooting at the grocery store in Boulder, Colorado, yesterday. We reached him in Boulder.

[Music: piano and guitar instrumental]

Women Raptors Broadcast

Guest: Amy Audibert

CH: The Toronto Raptors have a lot to prove in their game against the Denver Nuggets tomorrow, the 2019 NBA champs are now on a nine game losing streak, but the team of TV broadcasters covering tomorrow's game have already proven themselves many times over. They're former players, seasoned analysts and gifted colour commentators. And yet their collaboration tomorrow will be a first for all of them because it's the first all women broadcast in Raptors history. Amy Audibert is a Raptors 905 analyst and one of five women who will co-host tomorrow night's broadcast on TSN. We reached her in Niagara Falls.

CO: Amy, so how does it feel to be gearing up for this broadcast tomorrow night?

AMY AUDIBERT: It's thrilling. You know, it's funny because I try to kind of approach one game at a time. And so I had the radio call last night for the Raptors. So I woke up this morning with the flip on this game. And yeah, listen, it's a piece of history. I'm honoured to be doing this with some women that I have sat on my couch and watched, like all of Canada for years. And at the same time, it's just a day for us to showcase that we have been working and presenting in television and in particular this wonderful game of basketball for years. And so while I'm completely thrilled and honoured to be part of history, I also believe that I am so excited to be able to do the job that I love to do tomorrow.

CO: So this is a first for the Raptors and for the NBA in Canada. What do you want this broadcast to achieve?

AA: Number one, I'd love for young women who may want to work in television and also love sports that are at home watching, see this and say, hey, maybe I can do that, too. So definitely I think we all agree. All of us that are a part of this tomorrow want to inspire the other side as well. I just want people to watch the Toronto Raptors and the Denver Nuggets play a basketball game and not be super taken over by the fact that the voices are a little bit different.

CO: You know, it's as you say, you're making history. This is breaking through something. Why has it taken so long?

AA: While it's a good question and obviously there just aren't as many... There haven't been women, it's getting better, more women are getting more opportunities. I mean, professional sports is male dominated. And also, let's not beat around the bush here. When you look at Canada, there aren't a lot of. Opportunities to cover sports on television, we just don't have that many jobs, so that on top of the fact that women traditionally hadn't been given the opportunity to cover professional sports consistently. Right. It's just been a big, vicious circle in some ways. And so you credit a lot of decision makers, the TSN family and the Toronto Raptors, for giving us this day to showcase, but also they've all been very blunt about their commitment that they don't want this to be a one time show. They want women to be put in these positions more, which goes to the point why tomorrow has to be very good.

CO: Well, talking about tomorrow has to be very good. And breakthroughs, what's going on? Tomorrow's game comes at a good time for the Raptors there on a nine game losing streak. What's happening?

AA: Listen, There's a lot going on with the Toronto Raptors right now, but nothing more paramount than health. Three of our core players have had to basically take two weeks off for covid safety, health and protocol is one of them we know was sick. And Fred VanVleet he was, he was very candid about that time. And so I think that's a combination of a lot of things that's gone on. But this team is, Nick, their head coach, Nick Nurse said a couple of times they are basically back in training camp mode. Where they are trying to find their chemistry and cohesion on both ends of the court. So tomorrow is a very good Denver team. And I'm really looking forward to seeing the response that these guys come out with.

CO: Tomorrow's game also comes in the midst of this year's NCAA March Madness tournament. And there is a lot to talk about there as well. But one thing I want to ask you about is the video we've seen discrepancies between male and female athletes facilities. When you saw that, there is, I think, a tick tock, some other things put out there was just pretty shocking. What stood out for you in those photos?

AA: Well, I played a very high level college basketball at the University of Miami, which is a Power five school. And so I wasn't super shocked. But what I couldn't believe was that obviously the men's and women's have two separate committees. But the fact that they didn't come together, knowing that everyone has a phone and social media is so strong, of course, is going to go on the Internet and take off. I'm not to, you know, the swag bag stuff, the sponsorships, I'm not too concerned about that. But the part that was really concerning to me was you look at the food, you look at the weight room or the the area and those we're talking about athletes taking care of their bodies, fuelling their bodies. That's where the line gets drawn for me personally. And we've got some brave young women out there that knew that this is not OK. And I'm going to use my platform to show the world. And it absolutely cannot continue to happen.

CO: And the NCAA has said it responded, saying that, quote, We fell short. So it has acknowledged that this discrepancy between the facilities for men and women. But I mean, you've been in this world a long time. You were, as you say, you played a number of places. You coached at Brock. You've been an analyst. What's changed for women's representation in basketball during the time that you've been in it?

AA: There is a lot more attention the buying is getting better. To me, the biggest example is right now turning on the TV and TSN is showing the NCAA tournament on the women's side as well. Those things need to continue to happen, right? We have to get buy in from investors, from networks, from big companies, because women are very good at playing basketball. You do have this small population that are just ignorant and they just shut off the TV. And to me if that's the type of person out there, they're not real basketball fans. So just continuing to invest in the sport and showing it to the world, that has to continue to happen to see the women's side of the game really thrive.

CO: And with this broadcast that you and the others are part of the five women in this all female broadcast of the game tomorrow, will there come a time when it's just business as usual for that to happen?

AA: I would hope so, right, and I'm not saying... Trust me, I'm not saying that this would be all women. That's it. The only thing. Right, because there are tremendous men that work in the industry as well. But would we love to see a day where you turn on the TV and you see or you hear a lot more women sitting beside men? Yes. In my opinion, though, that all starts with one, right? For Canada, this is number one. This is the first time. And so goes back to my point. You know, I'm confident that we're going to deliver a great show tomorrow and hopefully down the line. That means that the decision makers go back and say, hey, this job was done really well by a woman and give somebody else an opportunity as well.

CO: We will be watching. Amy, thank you.

AA: Thank you so much. Carol, great to chat with you.

CO: You too. Bye bye.

CH: Amy Audibert will be one of five sportscasters on screen for tomorrow's first of its kind, All Women TV broadcast of the Toronto Raptors game on TSN.

[Music: percussion instrumental]

New Douglas Adams Book

Guest: Jane Thrift

CH: Douglas Adams was one of the most imaginative writers of his time, but what went on in the mind of the late writer of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Well, we know one answer to that question, and it's 42. That, as you probably know, was what the supercomputer Deep Thought said was the answer to life, the universe and everything in. Mr. Adams's famous novel and 42 is also the title of a forthcoming book about Douglas Adams that digs into the author's personal archives. Jane Thrift is Douglas Adams' sister. We reached her in Duntish, England.

CO: Jane as we understand, among the many things that are revealed in these archives of your brother is a handwritten note that Douglas wrote about writing. What did he say?

JANE THRIFT: So he found writing quite difficult. And so in this note, it was just encouragement to himself, to keep going, don't get embarrassed about the bits that were difficult. You know, the more you write than the more you've got to look at and more ideas. So, I mean, what I found really interesting when I saw that note was I just wished he'd read it to himself a bit more often.

CO: [laughter] When he was writing. I mean, you knew him, obviously, and he says that writing was so difficult, you have to attack it or it will attack you. What was he like when he was writing?

JT: Well, if it was going well, oh, it was exciting. And he'd call you in and print it off the printer or show you what he'd written and he'd stand there. And it was a bit tricky sometimes because he was just waiting for the expression or the laugh. But when he was really engaged, it was great. And when he was younger and he was writing 'hitchhikers' at our house in Dorset, actually he could tell whether it went well or not by inviting me sort of aged 11 or 12, I would go into his room and I'd read it and I'd say something like, oh, you can't write that. And he would... and that was about the name Slartibartfast because I thought it was just rude and he couldn't say it. And obviously we know that it's not rude, but that was what he wanted to get across. So those I remember as really wonderful, wonderful experiences. But the times when it was difficult, those were hard. It was hard to watch him go through that process. And I think it was probably as he became more successful, he knew the value of each word and it had to be perfect.

CO: But it's hard to understand that from the point of view of those who read his work, either The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or watched the shows, whether it was Monty Python, the Doctor Who episode any of those things, it seemed like he just was bursting with ideas. And the idea that he struggled with this is, is it will be new to people. Will it not?

JT: Yeah. I mean, I wonder whether he was bursting with ideas and actually in his imagination, there was no editing. You know, and that's what's amazing about these archives. You know, he's predicting things, you know, the ideas he had for what the future could be like. You know, he just would just imagine what he wanted. But when it actually came to writing and what's so brilliant about his writing is because all the words, you know, they're all in the right place. There aren't any excessive words there, it's his editing process. He would write and then he would edit and edit and edit and edit until it just rang true. When you were reading it or listening to it or watching it, you got it.

CO: This book is called, will be called, 42 The Wildly Improbable Ideas of Douglas Adams. And so what will we know about him, what will we know about Douglas Adams after this book comes out?

JT: I think we'll know about his endless fascination with the world. I think we'll get inside his brain and think, what might it have been like to be Douglas so that, you know, this is the man that would turn on his electric switch, a light switch, and in his head, he would imagine the electricity coming from the power station. You know, like he didn't see things the way, I guess, normal people see them.

CO: He died in 2001. He was only 49. Was such a huge loss to, I'm sure to you and to all of us who were his fans. But he seemed to be able to see what was coming. As far as technology, what do you remember about how your brother saw the world and what kinds of things he thought we needed and that we actually have now?

JT: Yeah, I mean, and that's what I mean. I don't know. Interestingly, if he was trying to predict the future or he just was like, this is how I would like it to be. This is how I would like to have all my music stored in one place. I would like to be able to read a book on a computer, but to be as thin as a piece of paper, that's what I would like. And we used to joke that I think he used to go and talk to companies and software engineers and, you know, we'd sit in the audience and they would listen to him and they'd be the ones that would go on and actually make those things. But his ideas were just like, this is possible. There was no limit to that imagination. It was quite remarkable, quite, quite remarkable.

CO: There may be, in what you're going to reveal in this book, things that are a bit upsetting for people who love the characters of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and others, that he didn't like those characters or he says at some point he doesn't. He thought they were Berke's right.

JT: Yeah, I know. It's funny. When we saw that piece, I could just see, you know, my brother and I, my younger brother and I were just thinking, oh, I can see where this is going and what people might think. But it's like those characters were real and they'd been with him for years and years. And, you know, it's like family members. You love them dearly, but sometimes you just want a break. And so I think it wasn't and it's interesting when you read the whole thing in context, and that's what this archive is going to be wonderful because you'll have a facsimile of the writing and then on the other side, you'll have some information to give it context and some footnotes because he's talking about [inaudible] they don't interest me, you know, maybe he was just having a bad day. But then very quickly, he segues into chatting about a dragon called Lyonel. And, you know, so it's wonderful to just think that's how his brain was working. It was just always alive.

CO: In The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the characters are, as we know, they're looking for the answer. But what is repeated is that they have to ask the right questions. They don't even understand what question they're asking. So do you think that this will provide answers or the right questions?

JT: That's interesting, isn't it? I hope what it will do is invite and encourage people to find out what the right questions are themselves. We're hoping and we're sure that a lot of young people will get a lot out of this book to start looking at the world through a different lens. And like you say, and especially at the moment, so many changes going on in the world, it's almost like, what can I imagine? How would I like the world to look? How would I like it to be? And how can I get there. To invite people to ask their own questions and to see things in a different way?

CO: Jane, we look forward to getting the questions and maybe some answers as well. And it's great to speak with you. Thank you.

JT: Oh, thank you.

CO: Bye.

JT: Bye.

CH: Jane Thrift is the sister of the late Douglas Adams. She was in Duntish, England. And you can find more about the forthcoming book about Douglas Adams on our website, CBC.ca/aih.

[Music: Country instrumental]

Part 2: Australia Flooding

Australia Flooding

Guest: Meghan Nurse

CH: First there was fire and then the flood. Australia is currently experiencing its worst flooding in 60 years. Thousands of people have already fled their homes in New South Wales and more rain is on the way. Just over a year ago, the same areas suffered unprecedented wildfires during what was known as the black summer. Now, many of the same people who survived that are once again dealing with disaster. Amongst them is Megan Nurse. She and her two children barely escaped their home in the village of Telegraph Point. We reached her at a motel in Port Macquarie, about four hours north of Sydney.

CO: Megan, how are you and your family holding up today?

MEGHAN NURSE: We're pretty good, I think. I think the reality of what just happened for me is probably starting to sink in a little bit more. Now that my kids are safe and It's of sort of starting to sink in that we're homeless. So that's going to... That's sort of the reality for me this morning. I've been sitting here thinking, gosh, where do we go from here?

CO: And when you say sitting here this morning, you are in a motel in Port Macquarie, it's not in your home, even near your home at Telegraph Point. This began, I guess, Friday evening when you realised that, you were, this was not a flood that you had seen in the past. What was the first indication that it was something you had to get out of?

MN: So we've lived in our property for 13 years and we had had the one in 100 year flood. After that flood, we rebuilt our house so that everything was above that flood height. We put our washing machine and dryer above that flood high, all that sort of thing. So our house is actually a four 1/2 levelled house. So it sort of goes half tier and then up half a level and half a level, half a level. The most we've ever had it comes is the bottom level full of water. So it got to the top of the bottom level and we thought, OK, and it kept coming. And then it got to half of the next level, which we've never seen before. Then probably... It probably took about 10 minutes for the water to then fill that level. So we went up to the next level and we were trying to move stuff in the process and then it started coming in through the lounge room window. So it was 12 metres of water at that point through the house.

CO: Good heavens.

MN: Thankfully, my sons like six foot two or something and he swam out and got our canoe somehow and tied it to our front veranda awning roof. And then he came back in and got me and got my daughter. He swam us out.

CO: OK, when you say swim, you out, how did you swim out? How did you get out?

MN: So we walked down the stairs into the water and then swam out of the front door.

CO: So you had to go under the water to get out the door.

MN: Yep.

CO: And so your kids are good swimmers, I presume?

MN: Yeah. Yeah, we are all...

CO: It'd be terrifying if you had small kids, eh, but so...

MN: If we had little kids, I would have been so traumatised. My 17 year old’s pretty traumatised anyway.

CO: You have some pets?

MN: We do. We have four dogs, two cats, a goat and a pig. Our pig's a pet pig, her name's Luna. Once my son got us out. He canoed back four times and swam through the very top lounge room windows and got our dogs out one at a time. And then we'd already moved our pig out. But she kept swimming back across to us. So we had to move her a couple of times in the floodwater.

CO: And where is the pig now?

MN: She's in our house. Half the stairwells collapsed. So she's trapped on one level, but she's quite happy in there. She's warm and dry, so drier than she is outside.

CO: Where could you actually get to dry land?

MN: So we paddled up the road a bit. And then we have an old man who lives up the hill from us and his property is high. So he had actually literally just walked down his driveway to see what was happening as we swam out and I had actually moved my car, thank heavens, as far up the road as I could near his place. And my car survived and my son's car didn't. It went under. Because I'm a home birth midwife and my entire birth kit's in my car. So I kept moving my car because I've women due at the moment. And as I looked up to where my car was, the, Mick, his name is, was coming down towards us because he couldn't believe we were still here. He just grabbed hold of me and gave me a huge hug is a massive big guy. And I burst into tears, of course, and he just come on, get up here we'll light a fire because we had no power. Of course we had no power for ages. We'll light a fire, boil a jug and make a [inaudible] sort it out. So we stayed up there the night.

CO: But then you had to move again.

MN: We did. The water came down in the morning so we could get out of Telegraph Point. So we went into Kempsey, which is twenty minutes north, and then we got a motel in Kempsey. Then we got evacuated from that at about eleven o'clock that night because the river came up there as well.

CO: Good heavens.

MN: So, then we all. Yeah. So we all ended up at my son's so the four of us in, in their tiny little lounge room and then eight o'clock the next night we got a room in port because there's no accommodation anywhere.

CO: How are your kids holding up?

MN: My 17 year old daughter is pretty traumatised. She never wants to go back to the house. So we nearly lost our house to the bushfires in December 2019. I actually drove the girls out with all the dogs and cats in the car in horrific bushfires. That was the scariest day of my life. And between that and this, she never wants to go back there again. My oldest son, I think he's got a broken elbow, but he won't go and get it looked at because he's back out at Telly trying to help people because that's what he does.

CO: You mentioned that you were also in what's known as Black Summer, unprecedented wildfires in the same area. So you've lived through fire, fires like you've never seen before. Now you have gone through floods like you've never seen before. You have any idea where you're going to go now?

MN: No, I really don't. I can't leave the area because I'm the only home birth midwife for sort of four hundred kilometres. There is a major housing crisis in this area already because of the bushfires. We had whole communities lost, like literally the whole community lost because they didn't get any warning at the bushfires and we have people still living in tents on their properties waiting to rebuild because their insurance hasn't come through. In a lot of ways, we're lucky I can afford to pay for a motel room, so many of our people don't have that option. I just don't know what people are going to do. I really don't.

CO: Meghan, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. And has it stopped raining?

MN: I think I can actually see sun, which I don't even know what that looks like anymore.

CO: Oh my gosh, Megan, It's early in the morning there. I will let you go. I appreciate so much that you would speak with us. Thank you.

MN: No worries, thank you. You guys stay safe with covid.

CO: Thank you. Bye, bye

MN: Bye. Thank you.

CH: Megan Nurse and her two children narrowly escaped floods that destroyed their home late last week. And Telegraph Point, Australia, we reached her at a motel in nearby Port Macquarie.

[Music: mystery music]

D.C. Statehood?

CH: For years now, people in Washington, D.C. have been asking for statehood and now it looks closer than ever to becoming a reality. The Democrats support the idea of giving the district voting rights in Congress. Republicans, however, do not. But to hear Republican politicians tell it at a congressional hearing yesterday, it has nothing to do with the fact that left leaning voters in D.C. are unlikely to put their party in office. It's because some of them argue the US Constitution does not allow the change. South Dakota Senator Mike Rounds said, quote, The Founding Fathers never intended Washington, D.C. to be a state, unquote. His critics pointed out that when the country was founded, the territory of Dakota later split into north and south was not a state either. Some other Republicans made more creative arguments against D.C. statehood. Like Georgia Congressman Jody Hice.

JODY HICE: D.C. would be the only state, the only state without an airport, without a car dealership, without a capital city, without a landfill, without even a name on its own and we could go on and on and on.

CH: That prompted this reply from Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin.

JAMIE RASKIN: You know, it was said at a couple of points. There's no car dealership in the District of Columbia. Of course, that's not a constitutional restriction. It turns out there is a car dealership, in the District of Columbia, at that point now, do all the [inaudible], OK, at this point, we agree that people in D.C. should enjoy equal political rights. Of course not, because they're simply trying to gin up whatever arguments they can think of. Someone said there is no bowling alley in the District of Columbia. These are frivolous arguments.

CH: Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin speaking during a congressional hearing in D.C., a district making a bid for statehood.

[Music: guitar instrumental]

Anti-Asian Attacks in Canada

Guest: Trystan Jones

CH: Since the beginning of the pandemic, Asian Canadians have been suffering a spike in racism. Now a new report shows just how bad the situation has become. The Chinese Canadian National Council asked people to report their experiences of racism, and people responded, sharing their descriptions of more than 1100 attacks starting from last March. The incidents ranged from verbal attacks to violent physical attacks and include people being coughed on and spat at. Kennes Lin is with the Chinese Canadian National Council. And here's what she had to say about the report.

KENNES LIN: I am in disbelief, even one year later that it still feels like the beginning of the pandemic early twenty twenty. When we first saw the rise in the up-tick of these anti Asian racism cases, we recognise that the pandemic, especially south of our border, but not only south of our border, but even within our country here, that there is a lot of scapegoating and blaming that Chinese specifically are the reason for which the coronavirus was brought on. We know that Asian Canadians are experiencing a parallel pandemic, one of the covid 19 virus itself. And one of racism.

CH: There was Kennes Lin with the Chinese Canadian National Council. Trystan Jones has experienced anti Asian racism firsthand. We reached him in Vancouver.

CO: Trystan, there are 1150 reported incidents of anti Asian racism in this report. What do you make of that?

TRYSTAN JONES: I honestly make it out to be just absolutely just saddening and horrifying. This was something that I guess you could say that we could have saw coming with the slow, steady rise of anti Asian racist attacks happening across Canada and the United States over the past year. That number really it hit me hard because I know deep down that that number of 1100 cases that is going to be underreported as well. And there is a lot of people that probably didn't have the courage or wherewithal to speak up and report their own experiences. So it really worries me because that number is likely much, much higher.

CO: And do you believe that this past year? It is because of the rhetoric and the racist rhetoric around the pandemic.

TJ: I think it's definitely part of it. No doubt the messaging we've seen, whether it's from some elected leaders or whether it's from various disinformation campaigns, there has been always a pairing of the coronavirus pandemic with people of Asian descent in Canada. But that's not to say that it's the only thing. Racism has always existed here in Canada. And we may think that we are not nearly as bad off as our friends to the south. But that's just not the case. And I think the coronavirus was a perfect storm to escalate the things we've already been seeing here in Canada and brought it to the forefront because of the messaging we've seen.

CO: We spoke with a man in Texas last week, an Asian-American man whose restaurant was vandalised. He had been on CNN talking about masks and felt that it was important to wear them. If you're going to come into a restaurant and then there was all this racist graffiti on his wall. He believes that it's on the rise because the president of the United States, is the chief leader in that anti Asian racist reaction to the pandemic. So he's tied it to that. Do you think that the fact that it seems to be Mr. Trump made it OK for many people in their minds to do this kind of thing?

TJ: I definitely think President Trump's words mean something and they meant something to a lot of people. And over the past year, right. Leading up to when he lost his election, he was consistently, consistently labelling the coronavirus pandemic as the China virus. And his base is large and it is far reaching. And it would be, I guess, irresponsible to say that that did not have a hand. And I would have to agree that it most certainly did. When our elected leaders say things like this, it has power and words have power, and especially from the most powerful man in the world.

CO: Well, what about your own experiences in your hometown of Fort St. John?

TJ: Yes. When the coronavirus pandemic first hit, I, like many people around Canada, many young people was affected quite hard. I lost my job. I was forced out of my apartment and my classes were all moved online. After that happened, I was forced to move back to my hometown because there was nothing left for me in Vancouver and everything was kind of happening really quickly. It was then that not a couple of weeks after I got home that I was the target of someone's racial intolerance at the local Safeway. It was something I hadn't experienced in a number of years, but within a few weeks of me returning to a place that I consider home, the attacks just amplified and they showed their ugly face.

CO: So you've experienced racism before, but this is something quite brazen that you're experiencing now?

TJ: It's becoming more and more frequent I would say. Growing up as a kid in rural Canada, racism was something you always, you know, put up with and dealt with, you know, being heckled or, you know, called out or, you know, assaulted. That was stuff I had to deal with. But as the pandemic has gone on, it's become more and more frequent. And I found myself getting the same sorts of attacks more and more frequently over the past couple of months.

CO: You were on a work break when one of these incidents happened, is that right?

TJ: Yes. One of the incidents I was going to get groceries. There was another time when I was just sitting outside, you know, eating my lunch. And there was a private conversation happening between two people walking in the alley where I was sitting. And they threw some slurs at me just casually as they were walking by, even though I was just kind of sitting there peacefully eating my lunch.

CO: Does this make you feel less safe?

TJ: I wouldn't say so, no. This is something I've had to deal with and many minorities have to put up with like all of their lives. The violence we're seeing definitely, I would say it definitely makes me feel a little bit less safe. However, all it does is it just enforces my desire to keep speaking out and keep talking about these issues, because it's quite clear that with this massive increase that we've seen, that this is something that needs to be discussed not just on the individual level, but by our elected leaders as well.

CO: And that was my question, is that it's not just your responsibility, is it?

TJ: I believe it's time for everyone to start looking within themselves and having the honest conversation. When you sit down and you talk to someone who confronts you about what you're discussing more times than not, when you sit there and you speak with them like a human being and discuss what it is that they are thinking about and why they feel the way they do more times than not, when they leave that conversation, they totally understand why we're doing what we're doing. When it comes to the organisational level and the higher levels, I do believe that our elected leaders need to take this challenge on more seriously. I think that there needs to be a more frank conversation at all levels of government, municipal, provincial and federal, because this is not just going to be solved by, you know, everyday people like you and me trying to fix it on our own. We do need assistance from our elected leaders and we need leadership.

CO: Well, perhaps this new report is a wake up call for that. Trystan, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

TJ: Thank you very much for having me.

CH: We reached Trystan Jones in Vancouver.

[Music: wind instruments music]

Meatloaf

CH: He says he'd do anything for love, but then he starts telling you what he won't do. He won't stop dreaming of you every night of his life. That's sweet. He won't forgive himself if you don't go all the way tonight. Gross. And he won't ever do it better than he does it with you. Also, gross. There are a bunch of other things Meatloaf says he won't do in his baffling 1993 hit. "I'd do anything for love, but I won't do that". And he's had a bit of a dry spell since. And I'm sure there are things he won't do for money, but he will do this. That confusing song is about to become a confusing reality show called "I'd Do Anything for Love, but I won't do that". It will pit two couples against one another in and I'm quoting from an article here, absurd and sometimes frightening physical contests. The winning couple will then move on to a final round, quoting again, where their faith in each other will undergo the ultimate challenge. Sure sounds like someone's getting attacked by a bear, but it's too early to know for sure. What we do know is that Meatloaf is an executive producer and the aethereal figure behind the madness. Fittingly, I have no idea what that means. And I wish Meatloaf would do something to promote his new show, like explaining it. But so far nothing I guess he'd do anything for I'd do anything for love, but I won't do that. But he won't do that.

[Music: calm piano instrumental]

Part 3: Bangladesh Rohingya Fire

Bangladesh Rohingya Fire

Guest: Rushikesh Harichandran

CH: Once again, thousands of Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh are facing disaster. Last night, a fire ripped through their camp in Cox's Bazar. Some were sent scrambling for help, while those who couldn't escape died in the homes they'd once sought refuge in. Aid groups and local authorities have flocked to the scene to assist the injured and piece together what happened. Rushikesh Harichandan oversees the humanitarian effort at the refugee camp for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. We reached Mr. Harichandan in Cox's Bazar, Bangladesh.

CO: Rushikesh, first of all, can you just describe what the scene is like at this refugee camp where the fire took place?

RUSHIKESH HARICHANDRAN: The scene in the camp is really heartbreaking. You know, you could see all the houses burnt. Some places, all this cement pillars are standing. Some places there is nothing left. Household items, clothes you can find, they're all, they're all spread over. We saw people clearing their houses. We saw many people are volunteers. They were cleaning the roads. They are clearing the debris. So it was a kind of chaos you would see today morning when you visit the site. But what we, what I can tell you, since this fire started yesterday, our volunteers they rose to the area and they helped the firefighting.

CO: So there are all these pieces are burned down, all of them are torched. How many people lost a place to live in the course of this fire?

RH: These are estimated around 10,000 people who have lost their houses completely. That means they were all left that place and around 11 people who lost their lives. We also understood with government authorities today 560 people who were injured due to this fire accident.

CO: You say 11 people lost their lives, but I understand there are still at least 400 people who are still missing at this point.

RH: Actually, we [inaudible] this question also today in the meeting, because it was a chaos in the yesterday and many of the people have been they relocated to safer places. The government is not able to say whether all these missing people are now or not, but we'll be able to get this information sooner because we heard the same question to the authorities today about what is the status of this missing people.

CO: But do you expect that there will be more casualties, more people will have died by the time you find out where they are?

RH: Today in the evening. The government authorities cleared 11 people so far, but it could be more. We are waiting to see what could be a realistic number when they have identified. Those cases.

CO: The people in that camp in that part live so close together. There are all one, just tents beside each other, tarps overhead, almost nothing to hold those structures up. How many houses, how many of those accommodations do you think have been destroyed?

RH: Today, it's reported that 10000 houses in four camps have been fully destroyed. When I say fully destroyed, it means nothing left. Nothing, nothing. You don't find anything from that. The houses were made of bamboo with polythene covers. So it was the kind of material which are more inflammable. And because of one incident happened somewhere in there one kilometre away and this fire got in 15 minutes almost quickly, this fire spread over.

CO: And I understand that as the fire was spreading through this Rohingya refugee camp, that there were gas canisters people had for cooking that began to explode as well.

RH: They said that was the message also we got. But the government has commissioned the kind of committee to make further enquiry about this, how it happened and what could have been done. But the primacy of the information we receive, as you said rightly, this is due to this, you know, gas cylinders.

CO: But this is one of the worst fires there have been. There have been other fires in Cox's Bazar refugee camp. How does this compare with the others?

RH: Well, it is you never seen people living in recent history. People have never seen such a big... Even in my life, I have never seen such a vast area. And to the magnitude of this disaster.

CO: Where are the people who are living there? Where have they gone?

RH: These people, they had to move because there are 34 camps. So there are all camps who are affected. So they are joining [inaudible]. They are all in the place that are training camps. People move, people move to learning centre. People move to the childcare centre, the community centre and also some of the health facilities. And some people also they have relatives in other camps. Also, they move to there. So kind of, you know, when this thing happened, just they left without taking anything, whatever they were wearing, that was only left with them and they just saved their life.

CO: A volunteer for Save the Children described that during the fire, children were running everywhere. They lost their families. They were just trying to find their families. How many of the children are still missing?

RH: We have got the total number of 400 missing. But this includes children, women and other members, particularly about the number of children. I do not have exact information. Maybe I will be able to provide the information tomorrow or the day after.

CO: And they're also saying that many of the children, many people, as they're trying to run from the fire, they couldn't go very far because there's barbed wire all around the camp that prevented them from leaving. Did you see that?

RH: I've not seen that, actually. But the fact is that these are very narrow roads. Even during normal time. It's difficult to access with you if one vehicle is there. It is really difficult. You know, you can't commute, so in a situation like this. You know, it was frightening. People are in the panic. So obviously there could be a reason to see that people were not able to, you know, to be not able to run or it was a more expected situation which has not even thought of. But I have not seen, you know, myself that people saying or people saying that because of the barbed wire they could not go out.

CO: Do you have any idea at this point how the fire started?

RH: There is a commission now. They want to add more information to this one. But we understood that this happened because of the cylinder, the gas cylinder, which broke and then immediately caught fire to one of the family and ultimately, you know, extended because of the strong wind. So that was the reason that we understood.

CO: Rushikesh, we will leave it there and we will await more details about this horrible fire. Thanks so much for speaking with us.

RH: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

CH: Rushikesh Harichandan is the head of operations for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies in Cox's Bazar, Bangladesh.

[Music: guitar instrumental]

Dominion lawsuit

CH: After the US election, Donald Trump falsely and repeatedly proclaimed that the voting had been rigged against him, and all the while lawyer Sidney Powell amplified those claims and elaborated on them with wild conspiracy theories. In January, Dominion Voting Systems, which was founded in Canada, filed a 1.3 billion dollar defamation lawsuit against Ms. Powell. And now her legal team has filed a motion to dismiss, which includes an interesting claim that she shouldn't be held responsible for making those allegations because, quote, reasonable people would not accept such statements as fact, unquote. The lawsuit is similar to one Dominion filed against Rudy Giuliani earlier this year. At the time, Carol spoke with Dominion Voting Systems CEO John Poulos about the claims that have been made against his company.

JOHN POULOS: The claims are so demonstrably false in each of all of our states, where our technology is used, a voter’s holding a piece of paper that they review that accurately depicts their choices, they cast that securely. And those ballots are what is being recounted by hand in over a thousand different jurisdictions. So usually that's where the story ends and people understand that the count was accurate. But the fact that the claims continue to be made, claims that are, as you say, absolutely crazy. The fact that I'm not Venezuelian and I didn't create the company in Venezuela, I was just trying to help blind people vote privately on a paper ballot. These claims are so crazy that they absolutely need to be taken to court to have any kind of hope for voters to regain trust in the transparency of the system.

CO: You mentioned the Dominion Voting Systems was something that you developed in your basement. It was a system that would help blind people vote. So I don't know. I mean, do you feel sometimes you've entered into some alternate reality?

JP: That's a great way of putting it. I feel like that almost on a daily basis. Over the last several months. These types of claims would damage any type of election, even if it had no technology, because essentially they're making completely false claims. Yet they're repeating them so often and with such conviction that a good number of voters who are very upset believe it. And it's a very dangerous precedent.

CO: So, your lawsuit is 1.3 Billion dollars, but you've already issued several cease and desist letters to Mr. Giuliani, also to Sidney Powell that were weeks, if not months old, all of the warnings, all of the threats of a lawsuit haven't stopped them at all. In fact, they've accelerated them, including those of the My Pillow chief executive, Mike Lyndell. So why do you think that you'll actually be able to do anything with this lawsuit?

JP: In a court of law, as you know, there are very well established rules on evidence and how evidence must be disclosed and how it is heard. What we're really seeing is a lack of disclosing the evidence. If you look at some of the media appearances, some of these actors have actually gone on TV and say, I am going to release this information tonight when I exit the show. And then, of course, it isn't sent. It isn't disclosed. And therein lies the problem.

CO: When you watch this happen, when you watch this roll out in the U.S. media, how does it feel to be sort of sitting on your couch watching this kind of news?

JP: Well, it's obviously deeply disturbing in so many different ways. We have three hundred roughly employees and their families that have staked their name, their reputation and their livelihood on the company and through 18 years have worked very hard in building our reputation. In addition to that, we still have employees. Believe it or not, they don't feel safe returning to their home. Their homes are being scouted by people and taking pictures. They're receiving threatening text messages. So it really is very difficult to quantify and accurately describe the real effect that this has on real people. You know, this type of disinformation has real life consequences.

CH: From our archives, that was John Poulos speaking with Carol back in January. He's the Canadian CEO of Dominion Voting Systems.

[Music: electronic music]

800 Year Old Mocassin

Guest: Jessica Metcalfe

CH: It may just look like a dried out piece of leather, but an 800 year old moccasin found in a cave in Utah is an important artefact that reveals how Dene became one of the most widespread indigenous language groups in North America. Varieties of the language are spoken by people across the continent from the yellow knives of northern Canada to the Navajo of the American Southwest. Raymond Yakeleya is a Dene filmmaker and storyteller who's been working to understand his people's history.

RAYMOND YAKELEYA: It's very interesting. When we look back into our own people, we're spread out in many places in North America, but we're all linked by a common language and customs. So, you know, it's been kind of like a big search. It's kind of discovering North America as how our people would have encountered it. You know, 20,000 years ago, 25,000 years ago.

CH: Dene, oral traditions do mention that southward migration, but there's little in the archaeological record to explain it or why there are two distinct groupings of Dene languages. More than 2000 kilometres apart. And then anthropologist Jessica Metcalfe and her team took a closer look at that 800 year old moccasin. We reached Ms. Metcalfe in Thunder Bay, Ontario.

CO: Jessica, there were hundreds of moccasins have been found in those caves. And so what is it about this particular moccasin that caught your attention?

JESSICA METCALFE: Well, the moccasins in the promontory caves in general are a very distinctive style. They're not a style that we normally see in the Great Basin. So the style of the moccasins themselves links them farther to the north in the subarctic and suggests that probably this group was the descendants of a group of people that left the subarctic and moved about 1500 kilometres or more further south.

CO: So it seemed that many Dene moved from the subarctic to this area that's now Utah. But this one moccasin that we're talking about had something else that was unusual. Can you tell us about that?

JM: Yeah. So we found through a process of analysis called carbon isotope analysis that one piece of one particular moccasin from the promontory cave had a really different chemical signature, a really different carbon isotope value than all of the other bison remains in the cave characteristic of plants that don't grow in abundance around the promontory cave. It's a warm season, grass that's abundant in northern Arizona, in Texas and the Four Corners area. So this piece of a moccasin was from a bison that lived most of its life, or at least recently, in a place very far from the commentary cave, hundreds of kilometres to the south or southeast.

CO: OK, so now we have three locations, right? The subarctic where the style came from, the promontory caves where you found the moccasin. But part of it came from much further south.

JM: Exactly. And most of the bison remains in the promontory cave were obtained near the caves. We know that because there are large skeletal elements like skulls that you just wouldn't transport across long distances and in a large abundance of bison remains with isotopic signatures characteristic of the area around the cave. And we think it's very significant that this was actually the ankle wrap part of the moccasin. When you are a hunter gatherer walking around in moccasins, they wear out very, very quickly. The sole, you know, gets holes in it. But the ankle rap, that's the one part of the moccasin that would be recycled during a long, long distance journey. So a piece of leather obtained far away might actually make it back up to the promontory caves.

CO: So obtained far away or traded. Someone came with that and traded it for something else or provided it to somebody who didn't go that far south or what do you think?

JM: Yeah, that's a great question. And another possibility is that a lone bison just decided to make a long distance journey because bison sometimes do that. In terms of trade, that was one definitely possible hypothesis that we can never completely rule out. But we know that the promontory people were able to obtain lots and lots of bison near the cave. So they would have had absolutely no reason to need to trade for bison leather if they were around the caves.

CO: If they had ample food where they were in the promontory caves, why would they go further south looking for anything?

JM: That's a good question as well. So we know they had ample food when they were there and they were very good at hunting the large game that were there. There's been some suggestion from climate studies that around AD 1300 there were droughts that occurred across different parts of the southwest. So climate change might have been a factor. Fluctuating bison populations, either in response to climate change or for other reasons, might have been a factor. So we know that we don't find a lot of bison remains after the Promontory Caves occupation. And so it may have been that the bison left and the people followed.

CO: We heard a clip in the introduction about the movement of Dene speaking people throughout North America. And just this is 800 years ago. This is like the 13th century. So there is all this activity going on, the hunter gatherers, people on the move. What does it tell you about these people, Dene, speaking people and how they lived in North America?

JM: Well, I think one of the really important messages from this work is that pre colonial people, indigenous people, hundreds of years ago, even thousands of years ago had enormously sophisticated knowledge of the landscape, as they do today, and they weren't just randomly wandering the landscape. They knew where they were going and they learnt about the landscape in different ways from communicating with groups in different places and from taking long-Distance journeys themselves and scouting to different locations. So I think this research really supports that knowledge that indigenous people had this kind of sophisticated landscape knowledge for centuries into the past.

CO: The language, the actual words of Dene, the different languages that have been shared over that same geography tells the same story or much of the same story. But what else do these moccasins tell you? When you look at this I mean feet were inside, people walked for obviously thousands of miles wearing this footwear. When you look at them, what does it say to you?

JM: Yeah, the moccasins really put a human face, I think, on the story. And it's a phenomenal opportunity to be able to work with and handle materials like this because they're not easily preserved in archaeological sites. Usually we have basically just stones and bones because everything else degrades. But in a dry cave like the promontory caves, you have this phenomenal preservation of things like moccasins, and it puts a human face on the past. I think, you know, these moccasins, they have footprints in them and they were worn by people. And there's a real emotional connection with that, that I think is emotional for archaeologists and can be a real touch point for indigenous peoples as well as they connect with all the various stories and aspects of their shared past.

CO: Jessica, it's a really interesting story, and I appreciate you telling it to us. Thank you.

JM: Thanks so much for having me.

CO: Bye.

CH: Jessica Metcalfe is an assistant professor at Lakehead University. We reached her in Thunder Bay, Ontario. That research was published earlier this month in the journal American Antiquity.

[Music: techno music]

Goats in Wales

CH: At first, the residents of Llandudno, Wales welcomed the goats. Now they're welcoming ideas on how to move them out of town. You might remember the story. Last March we spoke with Andrew Stewart. He started taking videos of the goats as they brazenly roamed around his small town during the first lockdown. Now those goats are making headlines again. We already knew the herd spent the last year getting busy exploring the village, but now we know they also spent the year just getting busy. The population is surging after covid forced the town to cancel a planned contraception campaign. And now there are growing safety concerns for the animals and residents as the town eases out of lockdown. Here's Carol speaking with Andrew Stewart about the goats last March before their population ballooned.

ANDREW STEWART: The first time that I saw them was when they ran past the pub window at about midnight the other night. And yeah, they were just galloping down the street all about 10, 15 of them all together. And then they went to the square, which is about 50 yards or so away from us.

CO: I don't know what kind of pub you were in, but there are many stories of people being in pubs and seeing strange things. Was this something that you perhaps imagined?

AS: Well, at first I thought it might have been that, but no, it definitely wasn't imagined because I went out and I checked what was going on outside. I got my camera out, filmed a little bit of it and put it on social media. So it's definitely happened. I hadn't had that much to drink, definitely.

CO: And when did it seem that these goats actually started to really make themselves at home in your town?

AS: They did live on Hadland, which is just right by the town, and they live on the hillside. And when it gets really windy, it's really, it's hard for them to stay up there and stay upright and all that stuff. So they come down for a bit of shelter. They do cause a little bit of havoc from time to time. They've been schools which don't really like them as well. They've had a bit of mayhem caused to sort of gardens and things like that. But they stay there and then they go back. And now because there's nobody around, because obviously the UK is on lockdown because of covid, there's no cars, there's no people, there's no noise, there's nothing to stop them. So they are going for it. They are adventurous and they love the fact that they can just keep going and nothing is stopping them.

CO: And you did call the police on them. I mean, is it because I mean, you do have rules in the UK about social gathering at this point, do you not?

AS: Oh, we definitely do have rules and about social gathering, yet you're not allowed to, unless you live in the same household. You're not allowed to be in groups of more than two. You're not allowed to be any more than 2 meters, you know, any less than two metres apart. You're only allowed out for exercise or for some very limited reasons. And that's like once a day or as little as possible. Soyou, know, when you have to go to the shop or work if you absolutely need to and stuff. And they're really not abiding by any of that. [Laughter]

CH: From last March. That's Andrew Stewart speaking with Carol about a herd of goats that took over his village in Llandudno, Wales. You can find that interview on our website,CBC.ca/aih.

[Music: pop music]

Maestro moves

CH: Long before Drake and back when the Six was still the T. Maestro Fresh-Wes put Toronto hip hop on the map. The rapper and actor repped hard for Toronto and songs like "416 to the 905" became an anthem for the city. But like a lot of Torontonians during the pandemic, Maestro decided to make a move and join the exodus of people moving out of the city. Last fall, he landed in St. John, New Brunswick, and as he told the CBC, his new city already feels like home.

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: Through life, through trials, tribulations. And, you know, let's be for real man there's something called covid-19 man. And this is... This put an impact on everybody, not just nationally, but globally. So from a family perspective, we felt this was the best thing for us to do for the family, you know, and I think we definitely made a good decision because people are very accommodating here in the city, probably the friendliest people I've ever met in my life in St. John, New Brunswick.

JULIA WRIGHT: Why do you say that?

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: Why I think people are so friendly here is because just when you see them, it's the energy you get, they're welcoming, you know, and that's the overall thing with the Maritimes. But specifically, St. John, I just find that people are very welcoming from the local Tim Hortons, to the local Sobeys, to the local No Frills, to the local Erving's or deluxe fish and chips. You know,.

JW: You got people coming up to you at those places?

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: Well well, Tim Hortons today, I got a little love today. This guy was like, I knew that was you, Maestro. I knew that was you. [laughter] Yeah.

JW: What was the first time you came here to St. John?

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: The first time I came to St. John must have been in the 90s. It was definitely dope. And there was a time when I came here, I think it was me, Classified and Ludicrous. It was a Ludicrous tour.

JW: There's this guy he wrote on Twitter, I remember seeing Maestro Fresh-Wes at the Aquarius in 99', and he said to the crowd he would come back to St. John and now here he is. Do you...

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: I'm a man of my word!

JW: You promised and now here you are. Like do you remember the moment where you thought, Hey, St. John is going to be a place where I could live?

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: Na na because a lot of things happen like quickly. Like, if you asked me that last year, March, this time, I wouldn't be able to tell you, you know. But I'm glad I'm here, though, man. Holy smokes, man. Fish and chips. Incredible. I think the fish and chips stand out and there's a place up here not too far from here that I went the other day, Cask and Kettle, is that what it's called? Woah, man!

JW: Shoutout to Cask and Kettle.

MAESTRO FRESH-WES: Shoutout to Cask and Kettle, man. The fish and chips gave me the love I needed. Definitely.

CH: Canadian rapper Maestro Fresh-Wes speaking with CBC reporter Julia Wright about his decision to leave Toronto and move to St. John, New Brunswick.

March 23, 2021 Episode Transcript

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