As It Happens

January 22, 2018

Full text Transcript for January 22nd epsiode

The AIH Transcript for January 22, 2018

 [host]Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas[/host]



CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglass. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: A rude awakening. To end the shutdown in the U.S. Congress, Democrats abandoned demands that so-called DREAMers be protected, which leaves our guest — whose status expired yesterday — feeling abandoned.

JD: Trouble in the forecast. With a government program supporting climate change research set to expire, more than 250 scientists around the world have signed an open letter to Justin Trudeau, urging him to keep it going.

CO: Lost and Found, but lost. After decades of searching, an Ontario man discovers the identity of his birth mother, who'd been searching for him too. And then discovers that, a day earlier, she had died of a heart attack.

JD: And cruller to be kind. Okay, the new donut for excited fans of the victorious Philadelphia Eagles is more of a stick than a circle. And our guest will explain why it's called a "Greased Pole", and why that's not gross.

JD: As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that hopes he'll make something perfectly eclair.

[Music: Theme]


Part one: U.S. shutdown: DACA, Newfoundland birth mother, Philly Greased Poles

U.S Shutdown DACA

Guest: Hector Rivera Suarez

JD: The U.S. government shutdown is ending. But, to many, the deal Congress struck isn't cause for celebration. Democrats and Republicans approved a short-term funding bill, to keep the government running until February 8th. But over the weekend, Democrats had refused to sign any deal that didn't protect DREAMers — undocumented immigrants who arrived in the U.S. as children. And yet, today's deal doesn't include anything for DREAMers. It vows to work on protections over the coming weeks. Hector Rivera Suarez is a Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, recipient. He's a 20-year-old college student in Greensboro, North Carolina, and coincidentally, his DACA status expired yesterday. We reached Mr. Suarez in Greensboro.

CO: Hector, the U.S. government shutdown is over for now, but the battle has been over immigration and people like you. How did you feel about that?

HECTOR RIVERA SUAREZ:  You know after being in D.C. for the past two weeks, it felt great that DREAMers were finally being acknowledged. But it was a sad ending with nothing has been done for DREAMers still.

CO: So even after all these days, the Democrats said they would not sign on with a government spending bill unless there were there was protection for DREAMers like you. Did you think the Democrats would be successful? Were you hopeful?

HRS: I mean I think I have no other option than to be hopeful considering the situation that I was in. And you know I was hopeful for the Democrats that they were going to be able to do something. But the meeting s that I had while I was in D.C. were mostly with Republicans. And they all shared that they felt the urgency around the issue. So it was kind of disappointing to see that from both sides.

CO: And why do you think that's the case? If you felt the same vibe from Republicans as from Democrats that this was untenable, that the situation that you and the other DREAMers are in it has to be fixed, there has to be a way to make this work. Why do you think that they can't do it?

HRS: You know at this point, I'm starting to think it goes to a higher level of the policymaking. And there was no clear path on what the president wanted. He went from a couple of weeks ago, saying that he would sign anything that was placed in front of him to now, being a lot more demanding about the things that he wanted. It just makes it a lot harder, I would imagine, to plan around that.

CO: You heard Senator Schumer say that negotiating with Donald Trump was like negotiating with Jello.

HRS: Yeah, it just goes back and forth constantly.

CO: At this point for you, I mean I'm reading the story that was in the local paper in North Carolina about you and everything you've done since you were eight years old. To get to where you are now all the studying you did, the jobs you had after school, the hours you put in, and yet, you were an A student. You got to where you wanted to be. You had all your plans and your dreams. They call you DREAMers for a reason, don't they? I mean all these things seem to be there, and now what's in your future? I mean basically your status expired yesterday, right?

HRS: Correct. You know it really takes a toll on you first like as a person. It really does take a toll on you. Two weeks ago, I was really hopeful. Then, I was like this might not happen. But my American dream is to graduate from college. And I am just three or four months away from achieving that. So no matter what happens, I'm so close to achieving that dream. And I have so much support behind me. Maybe it doesn't seem like I have the support from Congress, but I have the support from my local community.

CO: What does it actually mean that you have your status — your DACA status — has expired? What effect does that have on you?

HRS: So the biggest thing that happens when your DACA expires is you're no longer able to drive. Your license expires the same day. For example, myself, I live off campus, so I would always drive to school. I would drive to get groceries. I would dirve to do surveys to go help out teachers and be in the classroom and be present with the kids. But that's something that I'm no longer able to do. I'm left with walking to school because I'm not in a position to risk driving with an expired license because of the fear of getting pulled over, and that possibly leading to deportation.

CO: And you have three or four months left — you're almost finished your life of education to get to this place. Is it possible that you might not be able to finish? That you might be deported before that happens?

HRS: You know at this point, without having my status, that is a possibility. That is something that I've had to think about since DACA ended in September. It's a conversation that I've had to have with my family, with my friends, and even the administration of my school to see what kind of support they'll give me.

CO: It's just sounds like your life is just hanging by a thread, Hector.

HRS: I mean it really is. I no longer have the opportunity to wake up every morning and know that I'm protected from deportation. That's no longer a thing I have. It's something that everything that I do, whenever I'm walking, to wherever I am, that's something that I'm always going to worry about.

CO: There's one point during the weekend this plan that they've been discussing the Democrats would support President Trumps wall between the United States and Mexico in exchange for protection for DREAMers. What do you make of that trade-off?

HRS: You know at this point, I mean I don't think it's fair to put one against the other. I feel like if anything the priority right now should be DREAMers because every day 122 people are losing their status. And now with that decision being made, thousands of people will continue to lose their status starting March 5th. And I just feel like it should be more priority to focus on DREAMers than on building a wall.

CO: You went to Washington D.C. You mentioned that along with a bunch of other DREAMers to tell your story — to try to persuade Congress. Your mother saw a photo of you telling your story. How did she feel about seeing you in Washington pleading your case?

HRS: You know at first, pretty much my whole family was worried of me putting myself in a situation where I'm sharing my story. I've never been to Washington D.C. That was my first time in Washington D.C., and it was my first time traveling alone. And my whole family was just worried. But at the same time, they're all very supportive. They know that when I went there and I shared my story I wasn't just doing it for myself. But I was doing for every other DREAMer. Not just the eight hundred thousand I have DACA. And when my mom saw that picture you know she told me she just cried, and she said that is was just the mixed emotion of like sadness for the situation that all the DREAMers are being put through. But joy that my situation and all the other DREAMer's situation is being acknowledged. And the saddest thing for me is all the children that will be losing their teachers that have DACA. There's twenty-thousand teachers that have DACA. And that number is going to drop, and it's just not going to affect the teachers personally, but their students as well. And that's the saddest thing for me because that's what I care about the most.

CO: Because you want to be a teacher?

HRS: Yes, ma'am.

CO: Hector, I really appreciate you sharing your story with us.

HRS: Thank you for listening into it.

CO: Take care.

HRS: Thank you.

JD: Hector Rivera Suarez is a recipient of DACA — Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals — that expired yesterday. We reached him in Greensboro, North Carolina.

[Music: Ambient]

Newfoundland birth mother

Guest: Bruce Hauck

JD: For 25 years, Bruce Hauck has been searching for his birth mother. He knew her arm was disabled from polio, and that she was from St. Anthony, Newfoundland. But with just those clues, his investigation didn't get him very far, until last Monday. After posting on a Facebook group for people seeking lost relatives, his search finally came to an end. Unfortunately, he was one day too late. We reached Bruce Hauck in Bradford, Ontario.

CO: Bruce, after all these years searching, can you tell us about the message you got on Facebook the other day — on Monday — from someone who knew your mom?

BRUCE HAUCK: Yeah, it started off a normal Monday evening. I got a weird pop up on my Facebook messenger — a name that I didn't notice. It was a gentleman by the name of Melvin Pollard. His note was pretty brief: We may have some information that would help you in your search. Please call this man, which led me to another gentleman, Murdock, and a note at the end saying time is of the essence.

CO: And that was that was last Monday night. And then you arranged to meet this man Murdock Pollard. You met him in a Tim Hortons, is that right?

BH: I did, yes ma'am. That was first thing in the morning — 7:00 o'clock Tuesday morning. I'm the type of guy that likes to cut to the chase. So I just broke the ice I said Murdock, you're here to deliver bad news, am I correct? You know a bit of a pause, and he took a deep breath, and he said yes. He tells me something did happen to her. Sunday afternoon, she had a heart attack, and she, unfortunately, passed.

CO: After 25 years you made contact the day after your mother died?

BH: Yes, ma'am. Please excuse me, sorry. Yes, that's the way it played out. Not the fairy-tale ending that you had. Again, please excuse me. Not the fairy-tale ending that everyone that is adopted would prefer, or certainly want, but yes, it was a brutal reality. I was ending my 25-year search in, again, just not the way that I wanted to do it.

CO: Bruce, I'm so sorry.

BH: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. It has been a week, unlike anything I have ever experienced or could even dream of or think of when it comes to what is the emotional roller coaster that we sometimes talk about — just incredible, incredible.

CO: And yet, your mother, as you looked for her, you learned that she was a Newfoundlander. That you came from St. Anthony's, that's where you were born. Is that where she died?

BH: No, she actually moved to Ontario some years ago. And Windsor, Ontario is where she was living when she passed.

CO: So you didn't get to meet her before she died. Were you able to get to her funeral?

BH: I was, I was. I was given the opportunity by my newfound cousins to accompany them to Windsor, and I was able to I guess you would say have my moment with her. I was given you know a few minutes alone with her. And through family members, I learned that all she ever wanted to know was that her boy was OK. And my parting words to her were, of course, that I will see you again. But please remember something Mom, your boy is OK. Your boy is just OK.

CO: That's what you said to her?

BH: Yes, ma'am. That's what I said to her. And I let her know that one day we will walk again together. And that is everything that she had wanted to know of her son. It's all perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong. I'm fine. I live a good life. Your boy is perfectly fine.

CO: You found out that she had also been looking for you. As I understand, she had been looking for you, even baked birthday cakes for you?

BH: Yeah, she did. My newly found brother and sister, which is a new addition, they've been both incredibly kind. Upon meeting my brother, He told me she spoke of me. She was the one who named me — my name at birth was Bruce — it was kept. And she would talk to my brother and sister about me. And she would say I wonder where he is? And, according to my brother, there isn't a January 5th that would go by that she would not acknowledge the day. And on my side of things, the same goes for Mother's Day. There isn't a Mother's Day that would go by where I wouldn't think about her.

CO: You left with her with her body the photos of your wife and her grandchildren?

BH: Correct, yes. It had been 47 years, so I wanted to make sure that where she is resting finally that there was a part of me that was with her.  I got to see her face, I got to kiss her forehead, I got to hold her hand, and I got to whisper you know what I wanted to in her ear to send her off.

CO: And you have something else on her casket, didn't you?

BH: I did. I did. The funeral home had a small service. They closed the casket, and I stood in what would be probably in the very center of the room. I was frozen, and everybody left the room. Once again, I was given a quiet moment. And I rest both of my hands on the top of her casket and down my face comes tears. And tears were just all over really you know that one portion of the casket. And I looked back, and it was just a sweet moment. And I asked the funeral home very kindly please that might be the only one of the very few times that she gets to hear me cry. And so the tears that are on that casket, please I would ask that you just leave that exactly as it is. And you know they obliged right away. Yes sir, not a problem. And really a frozen moment in time; I'll never forget it.

CO: Bruce, it's an incredibly sad story. But sweet that you had that moment with her and that you have found this family.

BH: Yes, bittersweet. Enduring this 25-year journey, I always had a vision, I had a dream of how this would play out and how I wanted it to play out. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. I faced a different reality. And yeah, sometimes I don't have the words.

CO: We're all sharing this moment with you and the tears Bruce.

BH: Thank you so much. Thank you.

CO: Thank you.

BH: I could never thank you enough. My gratitude is endless.  I've closed one chapter of my life. And I opened a new chapter, which is a family that has just shown nothing but open arms. What an incredibly bright future. It's truly, truly a beautiful thing.

CO: What a blessing. What a blessing.

BH: It is, yes.

CO: Bruce, Are you OK? Is there anyone with you? I don't want to leave you.  

BH: Oh no, no, I am here. I've got some family around me. I have my precious daughter not too far away. I have another one of my boys in the house not too far away. And both have been just incredibly supportive of me.

CO: Well, I appreciate your generosity of sharing it with us Bruce and thank you.

BH: You're so very welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I've really enjoyed this.

CO: Bye bye.

BH: Bye bye.

JD: We reached Bruce Hauck in Bradford, Ontario. And you can read more about his story; see some photographs of Bruce and his mom, on our website.

[Music: Ambient]

Tom Harding

JD: Tom Harding kept his comments brief. Mr. Harding is the train engineer who was acquitted on Friday for his role in the Lac Megantic train disaster. The jury decided that he wasn't criminally responsible for the derailment that followed, and the explosion that took 47 lives. His lawyer told us that his client was too upset to speak. But he made it clear that Mr. Harding took what he called, quote, "moral responsibility" for leaving a train full of volatile crude oil above a small Quebec town without all the proper safety mechanisms in place. Well, this afternoon, Tom Harding read this statement at his lawyer's offices in Sherbrooke, Quebec.                

TOM HARDING: I would like to speak to the families and friends of the victims of the tragedy. I do not find the words sufficient to express my sympathies. I am deeply sorry for my part of responsibility in this tragedy. I assume this responsibility now, and I will always assume it. I wish to thank all 14 members of the jury for their seriousness which they put into their task. I want to thank my family, especially my brother Steve, who has stayed beside me and who has been present every day of the trial to support me. I wish to thank all of the people who so kindly encouraged me with letters and cards throughout. Finally, I would like to thank all the members of my defense team.

JD: That was Tom Harding, speaking in Sherbrooke, Quebec earlier today.

[Music: Ambient]

Philly Greased Poles

Guest: Quinton Johnson

JD: Philadelphia Eagles fans are known for being...expressive, rowdy, especially when they have something to celebrate. Which, of course, they do, today because last night, the Eagles did defeat the Minnesota Vikings, quite decisively, to win the NFC Championship. And now the team is heading to the Super Bowl. And to celebrate the team — and the rowdy reputation of its fans — a local doughnut shop has created a special doughnut. Quinton Johnson is the manager of Dottie's Donuts. We reached him in Philadelphia.

CO: Quinton, just first of all, describe this special Eagles doughnut to us.

QUINTON JOHNSON: So the Eagles doughnut just like a little bit you know back story yesterday, during the day, they had a bunch of cops in the city. And they were literally taking Crisco grease and greasing all the poles in case of a win, which we got, people wouldn't be climbing up on poles and being a danger to themself. They were just covering polls in grease. So that inspired this doughnut. It's basically a chocolate doughnut that doesn't have a hole in it. It's just like a long, straight, fried dough, you know what I mean? It's a chocolate doughnut with the vanilla quote/unquote "grease" just a vanilla glaze. And we put a little drop of matcha, so we've got some green on top of there just to kind of symbolize like the Eagles fan climbing the pole, which they ultimately did.

CO: And the Eagles green at the very top of this doughnut pole.

QJ: Yes, it's very triumphant.

CO: So this is a Greased Pole doughnut?

QJ: Yeah. This is the Greased Pole doughnut. This is the official Philadelphia Eagles NFC Championship Greased Pole Doughnut thanks to the city of Philadelphia. And I guess all the "Crisco Cops", as they're calling.

 CO: Now was there actually kind of a little fleet of people out with buckets of Crisco vegetable oil painting these poles?

QJ: Oh yeah, I wish I could send you the picture right this second. You can look it up though. There's like literal Crisco; we're not making this up. It's a police officer standing there with a tub of grease, greasing a pole. Like it's like covered top to bottom just like in grease. It's the most bizarre thing. It's too funny.

CO: And did it actually stop anyone from climbing the poles?

QJ: You know I'm sure it stopped someone, but it did not stop everyone. A lot of people started climbing poles. I mean because you know how it is? You know you try and go through all the measurements to make somebody not do something it just makes them want to do it more. So people were getting up there. I mean I hope everybody was safe, but people were definitely climbing poles and traffic lights and stuff. It was crazy.

CO: isn't there a Greased Pole Climbing Championship someplace? People actually do like have a skill for climbing greased poles?

QJ: I have heard something like that. But I mean if that is a real thing, then we're getting some pretty good practice in the city of Philly right now.

CO: What was the mood like on the streets of Philadelphia last night?

QJ: I mean as you can imagine, Philly take sports much more seriously win or lose than a lot of places. So as soon as the game was over, it was fireworks all over the city, people pouring into the streets, you could not drive if you wanted to, thousands of people just yelling and chanting. You know Eagles cheering just go Birds! People all over the place in as good of a mood as you can really be collectively. City of Brotherly Love, you know what I mean? And people were really feeling it. People would just never talk to each other usually, or walk right by, like all just kind of coming together. The whole city was green. And everybody was just having a blast really. I mean hopefully being safe, but having a really good time.

CO: When was the last time the Philadelphia Eagles went to the Super Bowl?

QJ: Ironically enough, it was against the Patriots, who we're playing against. So that was like I guess mid-20000s. That was the last Super Bowl. I mean they've been to the playoffs, but it's just the tale of Philadelphia teams like ultimately we're the underdog, and then we just don't capitalize, you know? But this year you know the spirits are high. We got serious underdogs. And everybody's using that as fuel to the fire, you know?

CO: How are your Greased Pole doughnuts selling?

QJ: It is pretty much the first thing that people mention when they walk in. They're like you got the Greased Pole doughnut? It's funny because we're like half joking about it at first, and then you know it all just kind of came together like overnight and everybody loves it.

CO: Are you giving any of them away?

QJ:  if any Philadelphia Eagles want to come in or any coaches, you know what I mean? They are more than welcome. Nick Foles can come on in, and he can have as many Grease Pole donuts as he would like.

CO: OK, so what if those people whose victory was over the Crisco polls? I mean if someone actually climbed one of those greasy polls maybe they should get one of your doughnuts?

QJ: Now that is a very, very good point. I don't see any reason why if somebody came in and showed some irrefutable proof that they climbed a greased pole last night during the pandemonium like we should be able to look out for them.

CO: Now as you just mentioned February 4th the Super Bowl is between the Philadelphia Eagles and the New England Patriots. I'm wondering are you selling any Boston Cream doughnuts in your shop?

QJ: good question. The Boston Cream doughnuts are currently on hiatus. We don't need those for the next two weeks, you know I mean? We'll come up with some Eagles Cream doughnuts or something like that, you know what I mean? We don't want to leave anybody high and dry. But right now, no Boston Cream going on, no New England-themed doughnuts going on in Philly right now, you know?

CO: So a victory against the Vikings and against vegetable oil in Philadelphia.

QJ: Yeah, absolutely. And you know here's to many more victories to come. Hopefully, we can go in and get that "W".

CO: Quinton, it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

QJ: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

QJ: Bye.

JD: Quenton Johnson is the manager of Dottie's Donuts. We reached him in Philadelphia. To see a picture of that Greased Pole Doughnut, go to our website:


Part two: Climate scientists letter, Vancouver whisky bar


Climate scientists letter

Guest: Kim Cobb

JD: A few months from now, at the end of the fiscal year, a federal government program that funds climate science is scheduled to expire. It is called The Climate Change and Atmospheric Research program. It supports seven different climate change research projects, and most of those will not be able to continue without that funding. So a group of more than 250 scientists from 22 countries have signed an open letter to the prime minister, urging him to keep the program going. Kim Cobb signed the letter. She is a climate scientist at the Georgia Institute of Technology. We reached her in Atlanta.

CO: Professor Cobb, as an American, why did you sign this letter?

KIM COBB: Well, I basically think that we have to do what we can as a global scientific enterprise to keep our capacity up. We have a global emergency underway with climate change causing more and more damages across the world. And we need to understand the impacts, and we need to understand the solutions. This is not the time to be pulling back funding from critical climate science infrastructure.

CO: But you will not be directly affected by the loss of this program. So why does it matter to you in particular?

KC: Well, actually I do feel like I will be personally affected by the loss of this scientific capacity recognizing that the global science community functions as one. we all rise and sink together. The kind of data the kinds of findings that they will be making should they be allowed to continue funding will be critical to our understanding of global climate change and its impact.

CO: But you're in the midst of losing a lot of funding — a lot of support — in your own country. You are in a country where the government at this point is a climate change denying President, and a lot of it's within the ranks of Congress. So don't you have a big enough fight in your own hands?

KC: Well, bring it on. I will try to fight for climate science funding on every front that I can. So just because I signed a letter that's directed at the Canadian government does not mean that I'm letting my own off the hook. In fact, I am heavily engaged in fighting for maintaining our climate science investments here in the U.S. against steep, steep odds as you point out. But again, we cannot let the front waver on any nation's budget and priorities at this point.

CO: Just to recap what this program is: this is The Climate Change and Atmospheric Research program here in Canada. It was launched in 2012 by the Harper government. And it was a much reduced program from one that was already in existence for the study of climate change and climate research. And so this is the one that the Liberal government has chosen not to renew it seems. What do you know about the kind of work it was doing that was important to do your work and to the work of climate scientists?

KC: Well, I understand that they operated some observing capacity in the Arctic regions of Canada where there are very few direct observations, and where we need all the data that we can get. These are some of the most sensitive parts of our climate system and the associate ecosystems. And so it's my understanding that data streams that we rely on to understand what's going on with the climate system and how things are changing and this is where some of the most fastest changes we can observe are in the Arctic. So indeed, we should be putting more observing capacity on the ground in these areas that are facing such rapid change changes not less going forward. And so whenever there's data on the line, you're going to see climate scientist like me standing up and fighting for that continued data sets.

CO: It's of interest that the Harper government took a lot of hits for canceling or reducing this program. And a lot of American scientists — scientists around the world — were criticizing and writing similar letters to complain to the conservatives for what they were doing. How does it strike you that a Liberal government under Justin Trudeau, who is widely regarded around the world as being the champion of research and data and science, that this is the government that is killing the program?

KC: Well, you know it is ironic in some ways. But it gives me hope that somebody who has emerged as a climate leader on the global sphere will put his money where his mouth is and recognize that global climate change is a priority for Canada as much as for any country in the world. And this is a chance to assert that leadership. Not just in talking points and appointments to his government, but also to the scientists who are performing this critical science task for Canadians. And so again, I'm hopeful that somebody who has really put their stake in supporting climate science priorities and trying to get serious about emissions will really recognise that this is an investment that should be continued.

CO: Do you think that if the federal government fails to do this, it will put a dent in that reputation?

KC: Well, certainly it will be a very sour note for the global climate science enterprise. This is a time when we should be investing more in such data sets and capacity, not less. And that is written into the records that we're hitting every year in global temperatures and reef destruction this problem is just beginning.

CO: You know a lot of Canadian scientists have written letters very similar to the United States government trying to support this kind of research and the funding of climate science in the United States. What have you lost? What have you seen in your own work as far as the diminishing of your ability to do this kind of research?

KC: Well, I would say that in the United States our worst nightmares have not come true with respect to the proposed cuts. But there have been specific agencies where climate funding has been greatly diminished. And there are very important critical programs that remain on the chopping block. And so we'll continue to make our case and hope for the best.

CO: We will leave it there. Thank you for coming on the program, Professor Cobb.

KC: OK, thanks for having me.

JD: Kim Cobb is a climate scientist at the Georgia Institute of Technology. We reached her in Atlanta. And we did request a response from the PMO, it directed us to Science Minister Kirsty Duncan. Minister Duncan's office sent us a statement which reads in part, quote, "Our government understands climate change is real and happening now, and we are taking comprehensive action to address its impacts. We are doing more to combat climate change than any Canadian federal government in history....As the Arctic matters now more than ever because of climate change; we are working to move forward on an Arctic Policy Framework in which science will play a key role." Unquote.

[Music: Jazz]

Ruth Bader Ginsburg


RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Well, I think it's about time. For so long, women were silent, thinking there was nothing you could do about it. But now, the law is on the side of women, or men, who encounter harassment. And that's a good thing.


JD: That's United States Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, speaking yesterday at the Sundance Film Festival — at the premiere of "RBG", a new documentary about her life. In conversation with NPR host Nina Totenberg, the judge and women's rights advocate spoke at length about her thoughts on the #MeToo movement, and about one of her own experiences of sexual harassment, when she was a student at Cornell.


RBG: Every women of my vintage knows what sexual harassment is, although we didn't have a name for it. Well, I'll give you just one example:  I'm taking a chemistry course at Cornell, and my instructor said because I was uncertain of my ability in that field. He said I'll give you a practice exam. So he gave me a practice exam. The next day, on the test, the test is the practice exam. And I knew exactly what he wanted in return. And that's just one of many examples. This was not considered anything you could do something about — that the law could help you do something about. Until a book was written by a then young woman named Catherine MacKinnon, and it was called "Sexual Harassment in the Workplace". And I was asked to read it by a publisher and give my opinion on whether it was worth publishing? It was a revelation. The first part described incidents like the one I just mentioned. And the next was how this anti-discrimination law — Title 7 — which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, national origin, religion, and sex — how that could be used as a tool to stop sexual harassment. It was eye-opening, and it was the beginning of a field that didn't exist until then.

NINA TOTENBERG: What did you do about the Professor? Did you just stay clear of him? What did you do?

RBG: I went to his office and I said how dare you! How dare you do this! And that was the end of that.

NT: I assume you did quite well on that exam?

RBG: I deliberately made two mistakes.


JD: That was United States Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, in conversation with NPR host Nina Totenberg yesterday at Sundance.

[Music: Ambient]

Vancouver whisky bar

Guest: Allura Ferergie

JD: There was a raid on a bar last week on Commercial Drive in Vancouver. Provincial authorities, backed up by armed police, came through the doors looking for ill-begotten goods. The goods in question were bottles of fine whisky. And Allura Fergie had little choice but to watch them haul cases of the good stuff away. Ms. Fergie is the owner of Fets Whisky Kitchen. We reached her in Vancouver.

CO: Ms. Fergie, can you just describe the scene last week when they came to take your whisky away?

ALLURA FERGIE: Three inspectors showed up, asked to see the receipts for the scotch malt whisky bottles. I didn't have them from the LDB, so they said that they're going to confiscate it because it was purchased outside of the LDB.

CO: And just so we know, the initials you're referring to this is the Liquor Distribution Branch in British Columbia, is that right?

AF: Yeah, that's correct.

CO: They were looking for receipts. What did they what did they want you to produce?

AF: They wanted us to prove to them that we purchase those bottles through the Distribution Branch, which we didn't. We get these through a private store because we are the scotch malt whisky partner bar; we have been for the last six years. These particular bottles are not available to us through the Liquor Distribution Branch, so we purchased it in B.C. at a legitimate liquor seller.

CO: Was your impression that it was legal for what you were doing? You weren't doing something under the table?

AF: No, we've been our partner bar for six years. We've had numerous inspections in those six years, and not once did one of those inspectors ever question those bottles.

CO: How much whisky did they take away?

AF: Two hundred and forty-two bottles, estimating about forty thousand dollars.

CO: How did they do it? Just describe that scene?

AF: They brought in their labeler, drove in a U-Haul, started taking the bottles down one-by-one, and itemizing them, labeling them, and carting them out the door into the back of the truck.

CO: You have these on racks and shelves?

AF: Oh yeah, these are right on the back bar. It's an integral part of our bar. It's the focal point.

CO: What was going through your mind as you watch your whisky get packed up and taken away?

AF: I was baffled, thoroughly disappointed, just felt violated really, it's a big investment, and it just didn't seem like it was really happening — very surreal.

CO: And were there customers there? Did anyone watch this happen?

AF: Yeah, there was a few customers here. It happened at opening time; we open at 10:00 in the morning. And they showed up at 10:00 a.m. sharp to do their job.

CO: The B.C. government's rules for bars like yours, apparently, is you must purchase your liquor from a Liquor Distribution Branch.

AF: The monopoly.

CO: From the monopoly.

AF: The place where we get those bottles the Liquor Branch sells them to the retailer.

CO: So you there's a middleman between you and the Liquor Distribution Branch?

AF: There's an agent for the Scotch Malt Whisky Society. They bring it in through the Liquor Branch — the LDB — and then the LDB turns around and sells it to a private liquor store, who is the retail partner for the Scottish Malt Whiskey Society. And then we buy them off them, and we put them in our bar. So it all goes through the LDB. It goes to the government. They get their taxes. And then when for every ounce we pour here, there's a liquor tax that we collect off our guests, and that we submit it to the government. So we're their tax collectors. So we are doing everything on the up and up. So I don't quite see what the problem is.

CO: This isn't like the prohibition; this is not Eliot Ness territory where it's coming in the back ways and sneaking into your bar. No, you've gone through a lot of channels?

AF: You know what? That's exactly how it felt when they came in and did it that way. If they had an issue with something, they should have sat down and had a conversation with us, and helped us facilitate a change or even get the product direct from them. And they never gave us that option.

CO: What did they say the problem is with your whisky?

AF: The only problem is we did not buy it from them. That is the only problem.

CO: But indirectly, you did through them?

AF: Exactly, exactly.

CO: Did you know before they arrived that there might be a problem with your whisky? Did you ever suspect that?

AF: No, no, I've never suspected that because in six years, I've had multiple inspectors coming in here. I haven't been written up. They've never said anything about the bottles. I haven't hid them. They're not behind the bar and paper bags. It's like right there behind our bar; it's the highlight of our bar.

CO: Did you know there was this rule that you should buy from them?

AF: I'm not at liberty to talk about legal issues at the moment.

CO: But what has happened? Have you been fined? Is there a citation?

AF: Right now, we're in limbo. We don't know. They carted away the whisky, they gave me my receipt, and said it's an ongoing investigation, and for us to hire legal counsel if we choose to try to get our bottles back is what we were told.

CO: But if you've been doing this for six years, why now? Why did you think this happened now?

AF: Well, I can't speculate. I have absolutely no idea. It came way out of left field. It happened to four of us partner bars for the Scotch Malt Whisky Society, and we are at a loss for why and why now?

CO: What effect will this have on your business that those bottles are taken away?

AF: It will have a big effect. And it's not just my business. There are multiple restaurants and bars that purchase product that they can't get at the LDB through the private liquor stores. So that private liquor store is going to take a hit. Bars and restaurants are going to take a hit. We're at the mercy of a monopoly is what it is.

CO: Any chance you'll get the whisky back?

AF: I'm very hopeful. It would be sacrilege to pour that all down the drains seeing as how rare they are. So it's out of our hands at the moment, but we're doing the best we can. And we just hope everybody keeps the story circulating. We have an incredible amount of support, which we're very grateful for. And we're not in this alone. We have the industry behind us on this one.

CO: All right. We'll follow this story. Ms. Fergie, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AF: Okay, thank you.

CO: Bye.

AF: Bye bye.

JD: Allura Fergie is the co-owner of Fets Whisky Kitchen. We reached her in Vancouver.


Part three: Sandy Cove march, Bosnian reunion


Sandy Cove march

Guest: Gwen Wilson

JD: Small in numbers; big in impact. Last year, the village of Sandy Cove, Nova Scotia made international headlines, when 15 people protested along the highway during their women's march. And on Saturday, the marchers were out again. This time, their turnout had more than doubled. Gwen Wilson organized the event. We reached her in Sandy Cove, Nova Scotia.

CO: Gwen, how did it feel to have all these women out on the highway on Saturday?

GWEN WILSON: It was wonderful. It was a very exhilarating experience to have everybody out marching with us on Saturday. It was just absolutely wonderful.

CO: And where did you walk?

GW: We started our walk at the Digby Neck Consolidated school here in Sandy Cove, and we headed up the highway — Highway 217 — that's the only main road down on Digby Neck. And we headed up there towards the Digby Neck Volunteer Fire Department, where we took a couple of minutes to catch our breath, and then we turned around and marched back again.

CO: Last year, you had 15 people doing that walk with you.

GW: Correct.

CO: How many do you have this time?

GW: This time we had 32.

CO: But what's the population of Sandy Cove?

GW: Well, the total permanent resident population in sandy cove is about 65. But the 32 people who marched with us came from other communities besides Sandy Cove. I mean Digby Neck is like a string of pearls. Little communities strung out along the narrow peninsula. So we brought people from other communities as well as from the village of Sandy Cove.

CO: Did you have any men with you?

GB: Oh yes, we certainly did. We had four men with us, so they doubled the numbers as well.

CO: Oh, there were two men last year?

GW:  Correct.

CO: Now the significance of what you did last year. It was a tiny March; 15 women walking in the rain with their placards. And yet, it went international, didn't it?

GW: It did.

CO: I mean people around the world were so inspired to see your little group of women marching up the highway.

GW: Exactly. Yes and that you know that certainly wasn't anticipated. And it wasn't their intent either to get any kind of notoriety. We simply marched last year because it wasn't going to work out for us to get to Halifax, and we knew that this event last year was momentous. There was just that feeling in the air, and we wanted to make our own stand. And so we said well we're just going to do it.

CO: That ended up in the New York Times the photo of your march.

GW: Yeah. Yeah. It has certainly gleaned all the international attention last year that anyone could have imagined. And I mean it's getting lots of attention this year too. But, of course, that's not at all why we were out there pounding the pavement.

CO: Last year, it was just, of course, we know just after the inauguration. What was the theme of your march? What were you marching for this year?

GB: Well, Women's March Canada the overall focus of the march this year was simply a equality for women, and focusing on issues that would you know contribute to the advancement of women in Canada and women globally.

CO: What was the atmosphere?

GW: Jubilant; very up. I mean we were thrilled again with the numbers. We were happy to have people driving by and honking and waving. We had a couple of residents in the village of Sandy Cove — couple of senior residents — come out and stand on their front lawns and wave to us with you know the pink hat on. And you know the reception was wonderful. No hecklers. There might have been a couple of drive-bys who really didn't look at us. There were no hecklers, which is a good thing.

CO: What changed between last year and this one?

GW: Well, I would like to think that, generally, people are a little bit more aware of the issues. I mean certainly, as you pointed out, things got started last year after the U.S. election. And now we've had a year of that particular presidency, but we've also had a lot of other things happen with the #MeToo movement and "Time's up" and all those other sorts of things. And those things have been you know very prominently talked about in the media. Although interestingly enough, I mean I know there are people here who didn't even know that there was any March last year. And I'm not referring to just our local march. I'm referring to You know the marches worldwide. They'd never heard of the women's march.

CO: At all?

GW: At all.

CO: Never saw a picture of a pink hat?

GW: Apparently not. However, they know now. They know now. And so I think even if you've only opened the eyes and opened the ears and opened the mind of one person, then you've effected the positive change. I think you know that's really a big part of the goal here.

CO: Were there any personal stories or anybody there that had the personal mission to do that walk?

GW: Not that I could comment on. I know that there are women in our community — the broader community of Bigby Neck — who would certainly have their hands up for the #MeToo movement. And I know that there are women in our communities — single mothers — who live in very stressful conditions, don't have the kinds of support they need, access to childcare, access to proper healthcare, all of those sorts of issues. We know those people are out there. No one was expressing those kinds of things in particular at our march. But we know that those folks are out there and need the support that we hope a little bit more awareness will bring them.

CO: I know last year though signs you carried in the rain ended up someplace. You want to tell us where your signs ended up?

GW: Well, our signs ended up at the Nova Scotia Museum of Natural History. And we were totally flabbergasted by the fact that they would want them as rain-stained as they were. But one of the curators is collecting materials that are more recent in nature — cultural artifacts. And so he was quite thrilled to have them, and we were thrilled to be able to give them. It was quite overwhelming I have to admit to see them all collected there in an official display at the museum. And to think of them being there, you know from this point forward. So it's really very touching.

CO: It was a moment in history.

GW: It was. It was. Yeah.

CO: What will you do with your signs from this year? You're going to save that and show it to your grandkids?

GW: Well, I'm not expecting anybody to come knocking on my door for them, but I think I'll save them. My husband and I worked hard on them, and they're kind of special momentos. So we will keep them, yes.

CO: What does your sign say? Oh, well one of the signs that I carried was you know the Women's March Canada with Sandy Cove and Digby Neck emblazoned on it. That was one. And another one that I had made that was carried by another member was recognizing the fact that Nova Scotian women achieved the vote in 1918. So this is 2018, so it's been a hundred years, and recognizing that the suffragette movement. We still have a lot of work to do. And I had made little ribbon rosettes with the purple, white, and green colours that the suffragette movement to hand out. And the marchers all wore them in recognition of that. But yeah, we have the vote, but we've got to do a lot more with it.

CO: Gwen, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

GW: Good to talk to you, Carol. Thanks for calling.

CO: Bye.

GW: Bye bye.

CO: Gwen Wilson was the organizer of the women's march in Sandy Cove, Nova Scotia on Saturday.

[Music: Folk]

Shooting death family

JD: He liked playing video games, swimming, basketball and martial arts. He wanted to pursue a career in electronic engineering. Just a few things a pastor said about Alfred Wong, at a press conference this afternoon — a week-and-a-half after the 15-year-old's death. On January 13th, Mr. Wong and his family were driving down a busy Vancouver street on a Saturday night when there was an exchange of gunfire in the area. A stray bullet hit Alfred Wong. He died two days later. Another person, named Kevin Whiteside, was also killed. Officials believe he was the intended target. Vancouver police are asking people with any information about the case to come forward. At today's press conference, Alfred Wong's brother, Wilfred, spoke to the media. Here's part of what he had to say.

WILFRED WONG: My parents and I would like to thank Coquitlam Christchurch of China, Coquitlam Alliance Church, the Vancouver Police Department, the Vancouver General Hospital staff, and everyone else who has been supporting us through these difficult times. In particular, we'd like to thank the officers who were with us for those few nights, and the doctors and nurses from the emergency ICU. Everyone gave their best, and we're very thankful for that. The 15 years that we had with Alfred were far too short. But we know that Alfred is now in heaven with God. My parents and I will always love him dearly, and his death will leave a void in our hearts. The years that he had with us will impact our family forever. Two scholarships have been set up in his name to help support people who wish to pursue the same dreams and goals and as Alfred did. The first was is the Alfred W.F. Wong Memorial Scholarship, associated with School District 43. And the second one is Alfred Alfred W.F. Wong Moral Scholarship, associated with the student club Alfred was a part of. Information reguarding the two can be found on the websites. Again, on behalf of my family, I would like to thank everyone who's been supporting us through these difficult times. It truly means a lot to us.

JD: That was Wilfred Wong, speaking today at the Vancouver Police Department. His 15-year-old brother, Alfred Wong, died after a shooting in Vancouver earlier this month.

[Music: Ambient]

Peter Mayle obit

JD: "Up and leave." That's what Peter Mayle did. And it was, perhaps, the best decision of his life. Mr. Mayle — the British author best known for writing the memoir "A Year in Provence" — died last week. He was 78-years-old. As a middle-aged man, Peter Mayle decided to move to France with his family. He was planning to write a novel. But he became so enchanted by the wonders of his new home — his adopted home — that the novel went unfinished. So his agent — perhaps in a state of desperation — suggested he write about his new life in Provence instead. The 1989 memoir became a best-seller. And while he did also write education and children's books, he knew what side his baguette was buttered on: he followed "A Year in Provence" with "Toujours Provence" and "Encore Provence". And in 1992, Peter Mayle spoke with the CBC's Bill Richardson about his home in the south of France.

PETER MAYLE: oh, it is lovely. I mean we're at the foot of the Luberon Mountains, which by Canadian standards I don't think are more than mole hills, but we call them mountains. Which is these mountains are national parks, so there's no building there. There are no roads. There is nothing except wilderness, essentially. That's the back of the house. The front of the house has a sort of road that goes between two villages, and we're surrounded by vineyards and cherry trees. The house itself I guess is about originally about 200 years old. And it's built of old local stone and has been built in a rather haphazard fashion, as a lot of these rural places are. Because you start off with one room, and then you get rich enough to have a shelter for the goats or your grandmother, and you build another room, and so on. So it's all on different levels with stairs and little rooms and big rooms and it's rather haphazard, but it's got a certain charm.

JD: Peter Mayle, in conversation with the CBC's Bill Richardson in 1992. Mr. Mayle died this Thursday near his home in Province. He was 78-years-old.

[Music: Strings]

Bosnian reunion

Guest: Justin Frye

JD: Justin Frye has spent years wondering what became of the little boy he met during the Bosnian war. And now, more than two decades later, he finally knows. In 1994, Mr. Frye was stationed in Bosnia with the United Nations peacekeeping mission there. During that time, he befriended a boy named Amir. Amir would run up to a fence near Mr. Frye's helicopter landing zone to see him. All Mr. Frye had left of Amir was a single photograph they had taken together. Recently, he stumbled on the photo, and that lead him to search for the boy. Within days, the two connected on social media. Justin Frye now works as a police officer in Barrie. And that's where we reached him. 


CO: Justin, how did it feel to reconnect with Amir?

JUSTIN FRYE: It was a wonderful feeling. And it's a feeling that I've been looking forward to experiencing for 24 years now.

CO: And when did you decide that you had to try and track him down?

JF: To try and find him was on my to do list for many, many years. And I don't have a lot of tangible things from my time in Bosnia. But I always kept Amir's picture with me. And I was away on a training course; his picture came onto my screen saver of a laptop, and I just thought I'm gonna commit some time to this. And that was just last week.

CO: How difficult was it to find him?

JF: At first in my mind, I thought it was going to be extremely difficult given the lack of information I had. I knew his name was Amir, and I knew on a map that I could find his house. I didn't know his last name. And with the passage of time, I feared that it would be very difficult to find him. However, as soon as I contacted a Visoko reporter, I had Amir's contact information within about five hours.

CO: Wow! And what was your first communication with him?

JF: So the first communication, I actually sent the picture of him and I, via Facebook messenger with a simple word this "Visoko" underneath it. And right away he responded back with yes, this is me. And I guess the reason I only put the word Visoko in our picture because I didn't even know if Amir spoke English.

CO: What did he say to you in the message — your first communication?

JF: He couldn't believe that it was me. And he always refers to me as my friend. So he said my friend, how are you? And then we did our best to communicate through his broken English.

CO: So this is 1994, you are in Visoko, and this is just before the end of the war in Bosnia; very tense time and Visoko a place of well so much grief and trouble. Lots of refugees, lots of trouble, tell us how you met Amir?

JF: So I was with the United Nations protection force that was in a place called CANBAT 2, and it was in Visoko. And part of the duties of being a soldier a CANBAT 2 was landing zone security for United Nations helicopters. So part of my duties would be to secure the landing zone with an armed presence. And the children were fascinated not only with the helicopters, of course, but to see the soldiers. And Amir would come to the fence. And when you see the children, there was a personal side to the conflict there. I felt bad for them. And I knew they didn't have a lot of things. So I started to bring candies for Amir. And soon he started to recognise me. And although there was a language barrier, he would get his sister to come over and translate. And then I just would request from my mum can you send some things for him. They didn't have anything. So it started with candy, and then it went to pencil crayons, and paper, and then I got him a watch. And I had my mum send the watch over and gave it to him. And we became good friends. And it's funny how some of the memories are fragmented. And they come back at different times. And I remember now that he was nervous to take this picture because he didn't want to look like a prisoner of war standing behind the barbed wire fence. So we've spoken about reuniting, and I assured him that this time it will be standing on the same side of the fence.

CO: Wow! How old was he then?

JF: He was eight-years-old during that time.

CO: What was it about Amir that drew you to him?

JF: I guess it was I'm a people person. I like to talk with people, and I found it fascinating that we didn't speak the same language. But even if you don't speak the same language, you can read someone's body language. So a smile can go a long way. And then, of course, a smile turns into the exchanging of some candies for him. And then that was you know the fundamental principles of relationship building was it doesn't always have to be verbal. It can just be the joy of seeing each other.

CO: What do you know or imagine his life was like at that time in 1994 in central Bosnia?

JF: I guess I can compare it to kind of how our life was. We were very limited with movement in that area. So I imagine that movement for him was difficult as well because there were dangerous times over there; times when the battle was close. And you just wonder if he lived in a constant state of fear.

CO: He would have been by then the economy was all but destroyed, and the country, everyone was on the move, and there wouldn't have been much for that for him and his sister.

JF: They were refugees from another small town called Banja Luka. And Banja Luka was an area that was very troubled. Amir and his family are Muslim, and they had to leave that area. So they went to the area of Visoko because it was more stable than Banja Luka. But he said when they moved they didn't have a lot of things for sure.

CO: And now where is Amir now?

JF: Amir now lives in Sweden. He's married, and he has a young baby daughter. And I've look forward to seeing his pictures. He is a hardworking man of a family. He works as a delivery driver, and he's currently studying to get qualified as a taxi operator in Sweden.

CO: But you're both men now. You have families. It's quite different, isn't it?

JF: It's very different. But what isn't different is the joy that we both feel to find one another. Even in our different languages, we were able to have a good conversation today of about 30 minutes. And we spoke of our story is representation or symbolic of you know potentially thousands of stories of soldiers that have befriended young children in war zones. And the nice thing about this is that our story has come full-circle, and we have found each other as adults.

CO: You wrote on your Facebook page: "Today, something wonderful happened for me." What is that? What's wonderful?

JF: It gets me upset a little bit to hear those words. But you're right, it is something wonderful. You know we live in a little bit of a trying world, and I put that message out just because I was elated with the fact that I had found him. A little bit upset at myself that I had procrastinated so long, but it truly is one of the most wonderful things that has happened to me.

CO: Justin, thanks for sharing it with us.

JF: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye bye.

JF: Bye.

JD: Justin Frye, a Canadian veteran and a Barrie police officer. We reached him in Barrie, Ontario. If you want to see the photo Justin Frye took with Amir Bajramovic, go to our website:

[Music: Horns]

Swearing yoga

JD: For most people, their yoga practice is a relaxing, quite activity — an escape from the noise of the world. But for Zandra Ross, the path to inner peace is outward profanity. The Prince George, British Columbia yoga instructor has created a class called Peace Through Profanity. And in it, participants are encouraged to laugh out loud and swear as they take on different yoga poses. Ms. Ross says she wants to make yoga more fun and accessible. And that she was inspired to hold the classes after a bad experience as a student. Here is part of Zandra Ross's conversation with Carolina de Ryk, host of "Daybreak North".


ZANDRA ROSS: I was very new to yoga, and had a bad experience where the yoga teacher said I was a little bit too chatty and a little bit too social in the class. And it was really not very happy for me, and I was like there's got to be more to yoga than this. And so then I decided hey, I'm going to go be a yoga teacher and see if I can find a fun way that makes yoga accessible to a different group of people that maybe wouldn't have participated in it otherwise.

CAROLINA DE RYK: So why profanity?

ZR: Well, to start with, I like to swear. What can I say? That's part of my part of my lexicon and using it. And I think a lot of people nowadays. But there's kind of four main reasons: it's stress relief. I think a lot of people use profanity to get some of that extra stress. It's fun. It makes us laugh. It's a way of speaking to each other. It takes away the self-consciousness factor of yoga, especially if you haven't done it before. So if everybody's saying the F word together, they're laughing and they're not thinking about how their bodies look. And finally, it's social. If you're allowed to swear and talk and do whatever you want in class, I just feel that for that type of person it just makes you more open to the teachings yoga.

CDR: And getting into the nitty gritty here, so are you swearing mid-pose? Or before you begin a pose? After you can release your body from a pose? When do you get that relief?

ZR: It's pretty much when your body and soul speaks to you to throw out that profanity. But where the idea came from was an app called Honest Meditation. And that's kind of where we heard it. So we start out with meditation, and then like I said, we take the nice big inhale on the exhale [censored], whatever that might be for you. And, of course, you have free swear in your yoga. You can't have it too controlled either.


JD: Yoga instructor Zandra Ross, speaking to the host of "Daybreak North", Carolina de Ryk.

[Music: Surf rock]

Australia Day

 JD: And now, Quote/Unquote.

[Music: Quote/Unqoute theme]

JD: This Friday, January 26th, is "Australia Day" because on January 26th, 1788, the First Fleet of British ships landed at Port Jackson, New South Wales. A lot of people, however, won't be attending barbecues to mark the anniversary of colonization. The chief executive of Reconciliation Australia says, quote, "Asking Indigenous people to celebrate on January 26th is like asking them to dance on their ancestors' grave." This year, in response to an audience survey, the public radio station Triple J is acknowledging that. For more than twenty years, the station has aired a countdown of listeners' favourite songs called The Hottest 100 on Australia Day. This year, it's moved the countdown to the fourth weekend in January. Well, To Cory Bernardi, leader of the small Australian Conservatives party, says Triple J has, quote, "abandoned our national day for political correctness." So he and his party have defiantly created the Australian Conservatives' official Australia Day playlist of Australian songs by Australian artists. Now, it may not surprise you that the Number One song on the list is "Down Under" by Men At Work. But if you were always just listening to the cool flute, it may surprise that that song is political. In 2003, singer Colin Hay told the website SongFacts, quote, "'s really about the plundering of the country by greedy people." Unquote. So Mr. Hay does not welcome this unwanted chart success. And in an interview with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, he had some advice for the Australian Conservatives leader. And that was, quote, "May I suggest, Mr. Bernardi, if you haven't already, dabbling in some light hallucinogens. Wander into a field, and sit in front of a tree, and look at it — really study it, at a molecular level. It may not change your conservative views, but it may make you realize you're not as important as you think you are." Unquote.