Whose truth? > Lloyd Axworthy

Andy: On our series, "Whose Truth?", we've been looking at what it means to Sri Lankan Tamils in Toronto to support their homeland. Many Tamils support the Tamil Tigers' fight for an independent state. But some are increasingly uneasy about the Tigers' recruitment of child soldiers.

Now, Canada's former Foreign Minister has put the issue on the national agenda.

Lloyd Axworthy, now a member of the international Human Rights Watch, is urging Paul Martin to take a stronger stand on the issue. Mr. Axworthy joins me in the studio. Good morning.

AUDIO: Canada's former Foreign Minister Lloyd Axworthy spoke with Andy Barrie about the use of child soldiers by the Tamil Tigers. Listen . (runs 7:42)

Andy: Explain the politics to me. It seems so obvious that the use of child soldiers is wrong. Why does the Canadian government have to be urged to press the issue?

Axworthy: I still think there's an opportunity to do it. Clearly the Tamils have had a close association with the government and with Mr. Martin in particular. They've been very important effective supporters of the Liberal party, very active politically, and a strong politically-minded community. So there's an opportunity for Prime Minister Martin to use that connection to remind the community that the Tigers are committing an international crime. A crime, in fact, which was very much a Canadian initiative when the original statute of the International Criminal Court was signed in 1977. So I think it's a natural and important initiative that could be taken by the Canadian government, particularly now that the tsunami has focused attention on Southeast Asia.

MORE: A letter to Paul Martin from Lloyd Axworthy and Human Rights Watch.

Andy: Politically, however so much easier to offer aid...

Axworthy: Offer aid, yes, but in fact reports coming in is that the use of child soldiers has continued and increased as a consequence of that, because so many kids have sort of been set loose, so they have not provided a truce or ceasefire on this issue and in fact the recruitment goes on.

Andy: At what level do you think this takes place? How many children are recruited by the Tamil Tigers? How long has this been going on?

Axworthy: Oh, it's been going on for years and years. As you know the Human Rights Watch, and I'm on the international board of Human Rights Watch which is the reason I signed the letter to the prime minister, has documented a very full report... just the extent to which this takes place, in terms of thousands.

And by the way, they're not the only perpetrators, I mean the government itself has to be held accountable as well. But the use of child soldiers is now an international crime. Very clearly. It's embedded in our criminal code. So I think it's imperative that we take action. So it's not a matter of choosing sides.

Certain people on your program has said let's be neutral about this. This isn't a question of taking sides as to who's right or wrong in a civil conflict, as bloody as it may be. The real issue is can the Tamils in Canada who are very influential provide an effective voice to say you can't continue to commit these kinds of crimes.

Andy: Last week, the Tigers, under pressure from the UN, released 23 child soldiers, saying they didn't know they were underage when they joined the Tiger ranks. Were they sincere, or was it just a gesture to get the UN, and maybe Canada, off their backs?

Axworthy: Oh, I think it's a gesture. I mean, to somehow say they are innocent in the knowledge I think is a bit of pandering to be blunt about it.

Andy: David Jeyaraj, a Tamil journalist here in Toronto, told us last week there's a saying in the Tiger movement: "A hero or heroine from each household". In other words, every Tamil family is expected to donate a son or daughter to the cause. Have attitudes changed towards this? You say the government should somehow persuade Tamils in the community here to do something. What would that something be? Withhold money? Dry up support?

Axworthy: That would certianly be one very important area. When I was in the government, we made a real effort to provide I guess what you'd call a zero tolerance legislation about the funding about organizations that were using violence or child soldiers as one of the techniques of conflict.

We weren't able to get that kind of teeth into the legislation. There was a lot of pressure, legitimately perhaps, from civil liberties organizations, but nevertheless there was a real understanding that there is a substantial source of funding. And I must say after I left the government, I spent some time with the Tamil community in Toronto, trying to see if we could develop a process in which a dialogue could take place between them and the Sinhalese, to say the Canadian diaspora is so important, that if you provided a constructive voice, you would have a real influence in bringing the conflict to an end.

So I think there is a real opportunity and connection. This isn't simply whistling in the wind. This could have a real impact on a very serious and I think very major violation.

Andy: Earlier diasporas have presented Canadian governments with similar issues, whether it was the Irish sending money to the Fenians in the United States; during the Winnipeg General Strike ofcourse, supporters were called Bolsheviks, or Jews who sent money to Israel, in the late '40s, and were accused of funding terrorist activities. How does a government deal with this succession of exported passion, which rooted in this country wants to send money back to support battles abroad. What do you do politically?

Axworthy: It was always a question I wrestled with in the Foreign Ministry. What became increasingly clear is that these organizations here, which are so much of our own fabric, have this external influence, and I'm not sure we've ever quite figured out how to mobilize it, how to deal with it. I don't think there's nearly enough engagement. I don't think there's enough involvement. I think there tends to be a responsiveness by government, but not actually an initiative taken where you actually sit down and say, now wait a minute...

Andy: Is there a reluctance to ever point fingers, is there a reluctance to say you're sending money to Hezbollah, you're causing death. You're sending money to Tigers, you're causing children to be pressed into service. Does it always have to be conciliatory and using back channels or can anybody ever embarrass one of these populations here and say you shouldn't do this?

Axworthy: It's been a mixture of both, but there's no question that the real response, I mean you have to understand that there is a political base that is being exercised on all these issues.

All these groups you mentioned have been a significant force in certain cities, in certain constitutencies, in certain areas, and therefore they have a voice that's very strong. How you deal with it I think is a judgement call at one point. But there are increasingly responsibilities of a government because of the importance of international conventions, international laws and that's where I believe in this particular instance where Canada took the lead, that the issue of child soldiers is embedded in our own legislation that I don't think we have any choice but to call them to account.

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