Quirks & Quarks

I am not a scientist but I look at science with wonder, amazement and sometimes anger when it goes in a direction I don't agree with. I am deeply disappointed that our current government is not giving science and technology more support in our country. Yes we are fortunate to have resources but we are also fortunate to have educated minds and great ideas and they need the government to recognise their value. Thanks to Bob McDonald for pointing out the slip backward by dismissing a high level scientific advisor to the PM and why we should all care.

This is an obvious signal to those paying attention that Harper is of the same mould as the Bush administration. Denying science a place at the table is really saying "I don't want any facts clouding our judgement."

It shouldn't surprise anyone, given that Stockwell Day, who believes the earth is 6000 years old and man once lived amoung the dinasaurs is a cabinet minister in this government.

Reality just isn't their thing.

Steve needs no advice, everything he needs to know will come from Washington or he knows it already.

Looks like the government is getting rid of all the 'experts' in the science field. Doesn't surprise me. Klein did the same thing.

Wonder if this has anything to do with the Chalk river incident?

It is extremely disturbing to me, although not surprising, that the office of National Science Adviser will be phased out. The role of the adviser seems a key one in this day and age when so much scientific information is being gained and digested. I would think that our Prime Minister would want to make informed decisions on policy based on hard scientific data, interpreted by a/many scientist(s). Perhaps if the adviser role was incorporated into the Science, Technology and Innovation Council it would be sufficient, but the note of 'private sector executives' on this council makes me cautious as to it's bias.

I think we need more good science in politics, not less.

It is difficult to understand how any government today can expect to function, let alone retain the confidence of an informed electorate, without access to unbiased scientific advice from a respected source like the soon to be defunct office of the National Science Advisor. Of course this government has made it plain from the beginning that is has no respect for the validity of scientific enquiry. There are ministers in cabinet who believe man walked with the dinosaurs and that evolution and creationism are mere theories of equal validity.

Unreal! Will Harper PLEASE call an election so we can rid the nation of this bafoonery? The list of things that stacked up against the liberals in the months/years leading up to the last election gave us no choice but to vote for someone else. Unlike the Liberals, Harper it seems is poised to make a mockery of voters who voted Conservative in a matter of months, not years!

Job well done Steve. Good luck when that next election comes up!

This appears to be a move that is usually pulled when government departments and governments choose governance from outside. In this case it appears like another case of attending to the whims of the USA in matters of food, drug and global warming standards.

A con_science_ won't exist without 'science', and in politics, you don't want one anyway.

Who needs science? It just gets in the way when you don't want to think too much about issues of national interest.

Besides, too often, science can too often contradict my own beliefs that I hold so dear, and cuddle up with in my comfortable little world.

PS - In all seriousness, until this point, I would have reluctantly supported the Conservatives in an election. This is the last straw. To the leaders of the other parties, my vote is now available.

This is the kind of governance that you get with the flaws in the system we have. If we had an elected Senate and a Primary Elections System then We the People could have a little more say in who gets elected. As it stands, those persons whose ego tells them they know better and should be ramming it down the throats of everyone else get to rule the roost. Political parties get hijacked from time to time by ego maniacs who can and do no end of damage to our society.
How can we amend or revise the system as it stands is a very big problem without resorting to a revolution and that will not happen unless there gets to be a huge over bearing need for reformation. Until there is large numbers of people losing their homes, jobs, and way of life, etc. Thus the politicians can get away with many illogical and unnecessary programs (their personal pet projects).
The example of the NRU reactor non-compliance is a case of successive governments starving the system for funding and denying that there are problems. We lack people running for government office who have good foresight and open minds that have been trained in Sciences and Mathematics. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to the ridicule of illogical religious zealots in a political arena when they can have a comfortable career avoiding these media circuses.
That brings up another issue that needs to be addressed in our society. The media needs to be subject to some more serious checks and balances that seem to be lacking lately. They fail to tell the good news stories and only promote the sensational and biased items. Is there a serious lack of higher education in the editorial rooms? Or are there advertising revenue pressures at work behind the scenes?
An American discovery recently found that the current administration was using the media by publishing false news stories that were designed to drastically change public opinion.
This called PROPAGANDA! The news organizations that swallowed it and published it as news should be held accountable for false witness!
I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen!

It's notable that there you can't have conscience without _science_. Oh well, who needs either in government and politics, right?

To the leaders of the other national parties, my vote is now available.

What a travesty.

What else can be expected of a PM who has so little respect for the electorate that he would fire Linda Keen, the head of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, for trying to save us from another Chernobyl in Chalk River, ON?

It's been made clear that Harper listens to no one, and like the marionette he's fashioned after, south of the border, matters of modern science are most likely the last thing on his mind.

Sounds to me like this is something we DO need in Canada (at least ONE scientist who can talk sense into the decision makers), and there are about 4000 f@$%ing things we DON'T need that they could otherwise cut!

Should we have expected anything else? And dinosaurs roamed the Earth at the same time as man...

Nothing the 'New Government of Canada" does can amaze me any further. After all, why use logic when the Great Seer All Knowing Stephen Harper (whom we all lovingly call Prime Minister) makes yet another bone headed decision. I happened to be a student when Dr Carty taught at University of Waterloo. Even in those long ago days, we as students could recognize the sound jusdgement of a well educated man. That the Great Seer doesn't see that surprises me not at all. Oh, but let me guess? Is Stephen the All Knowing just saving our tax dollars? Thanks, I would rather have the knowledge of a renowned Scientist assisting in policy decisions than have the wobbling and ill advised polices of the misguided beliefs of the current "government" - if I can dignify the collection of people in Ottawa as a "government".

The problem with science is that all those "facts" get in the way of ideology. There's no need to be given perspective or to be educated about a subject when your positions are all determined a priori.

Also wanted to add, that radarsat2 was financed in large part by our taxes. "

The project is a collaboration between the Canadian government and Canadarm maker MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates Ltd. The government, through the CSA, contributed $430 million to the project, while MDA added $92 million and built the satellite.

Once it's in orbit, MDA will own the satellite and cover the $15 million annual operating expenses. it will also be able to generate revenues from commercial contracts with other nations. Federal government departments in turn will be able to access information from the satellite at no cost."
Prior to the launch of radarsat2, the Canadian military under Brig.-Gen. Chris Whitecross were looking forward to Aug 08 for a military exercise which would test the usefulness of radarsat. This is called project Nanook. Now that radarsat is not under a Canadian company's control, but has been sold to the U.S. it will be interesting to follow the radarsat's use for Nanook this summer. Will our military have clear access to data from a satellite paid for by us, and developed and made here in Canada?

Steven Harper Has done more progressive governing in the last few years then the liberals have dared to do in ten. The ultra liberal CBC loves to try to discredit this government but the fact still remain they ( Conservatives ) are still in power and will remain there when the votes are counted.

Not surprising in the least. Evangelical right wing politicians usually have a great contempt for science. Science is unbiased and often times refutes the claims of such politicians.

Great reporting Bob to bring these actions to light. It's understandable, disgraceful and astoundingly stupid given the increased value of good scientific advice to inform national policies regarding the critical issues of our century - climate and the economy. Does this indicate he has no regard or need for good scientific information? And calculates that enough of the public agree or won't notice? A depressing thought but let's take him up on it. Me thinks he underestimates just how many people understand the perils of climate change and the need for an intelligent, fiscally responsible government responsive to the best science. Hopefully, after the next election he and his coterie of 'science doubters' can gather their doubts in a place where their decisions won't imperil the lives of the rest of us.

Mr. Harper is merely following the Dominionist lead in the U.S. Note that he has already cut funding to museums and womens' groups. His $100 a month per child benefits stay-at-home mothers much more than it does working mothers who pay much more in child care fees. Nothing has been done to increase the number of child care centers. He has entered into Bush's holy war.

I fully expect that if he gets in with a majority in the next election, the next things to go will be pensions, stem cell research, safety standards for employees, pro-choice options and all the same goodies that Mr. Bush has given the U.S. Mr. Bush feels that he was chosen by God. God hasn't indicated whether Mr. Harper is his choice too.

THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE DIRECTION OF THIS 'NEW GOVERNMENT'. GET RID OF ANYONE WHO HAS ANY ABILITY AND KNOWLEDGE ON ANY SUBJECT OF GREAT IMPORTANCE TO SOCIETY. STEVE APPARENTLY HAS GOT ALL THE ANSWERS TO ALL THE QUESTIONS. MAKES ME WONDER WHY HE NEEDS MINISTERS AT ALL.

Harper deems science unnecessary.
Declares self God (under BushCo), and goes about ridding a once great nation of reason, forethought, thought, and conscience.
Next on the agenda, declaring the earth flat, instituting racial identity cards, denying the poor voting rights, and banning women from driving.

Thank God we still have the CBC and Bob McDonald to let us know what is going on behind the scene. Can't help wondering why would any Government be scared of Science to the extent that it had to abolish the "Office of the Science Advisor"? I was told by Grandpa that the "Truth" some times hurts. Perhaps, that is the reason. Bill.

I wouldn't worry Bob and all you LIberals, we are sure the Government is well advised in Science, another Liberal appointment thats all...too bad eh

Hey Steve, your friend Bush is all done. So where do you get your orders now? Please bring this up in the election campaign won't you?

This is an excellent move politically. It allows Canada's New Government to speak on any topic and if they are caught out on any lie they can claim nobody told them. After the latest Afghan prisoners lie the government knows that deniability is key. If someone tells them to keep a nuclear plant down because its unsafe...fire them, that's not something you want to hear. If a science advisor says climate change is real and we should do something, of course get rid of them. Keep up the good work Mr. Harper, I'm sure Bush and Cheney wish they could do the same. You have out Bushed them.

As always when significant government cutbacks/cancellations occur, why this position and why now? What does the government stand to gain from such a move, and what does it stand to lose? Given Harper's clamp-down on party staff and civil service to speak openly, we will likely never know. As a scientist could, we can infer, but we are short on all the facts.

Sadly, this closure is also occurring at a time when some school boards and university faculties are stepping up efforts to attract more female students into the sciences. To whom will they now turn for mentoring at the governmental level? With less than 1% of 1% of the national budget devoted to the sciences, this paltry bottom line clearly states the Harper government's ranking of science in Canada.

The announcement; however, is not all that surprising. We have yet to hear one word of recognition and congratulations from this government about the Canadian membership of the IPCC being co-winners of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize (along with Al Gore). I honestly doubt whether any of Harper's cabinet could name one Canadian scientist (of 30) who is a member of that distinguished panel.

More disturbingly - and I hope I am wrong on this - I am not hearing much from our scientific community itself. Where the voices of David Suzuki, Dr. John Robinson, Dr. Ursula Franklin et al?

What's the fuss? Global collapse is coming, and whatever games this prime minister plays are unlikely to affect the outcome.

The root of the problem is politicians wanting to remain at the public trough instead of going out and getting a real job where they would actually have to sweat and bleed for their income like the rest of us. So they try to curry favour (votes) by sucking up to business and special interests. Easy fix. Limit all politicians to one term, no exceptions, no extensions. They get elected once and after that there is no valid reason to be beholden to any group because it won't matter since they cannot ever be elected again. Maybe give the PM and extra 2 years so they can have a chance at getting policies rolling effectively but bar them absolutely from ever running again. No need, no greed.

Well, we voted for him. Now we must live with the consequences of our ideologically and emotionally driven choice.

How could this be happening?
Seriously.
I feel sick.

While I do support many of the efforts of the present government, I am disturbed and perturbed by this move. I EXPECT AT A MINIMUM, government officials to consult with the scientific community and advisors, such as the National Science Advisor, on all issues. From the Afghanistan mission, climate change initiatives, national health care policy, federal taxation to GMO's federal policy should consult the experts, be proactive and forward thinking! This position should continue as a direct advisor to the privy council in my opinion and guess what my opinion counts! That's the type of government I want and expect.

The Prime Minister seems to be a family man.Perhaps we need to appeal to his wife as his children will be witness to the results of his decisions.It's hard to believe Canada is not leading the way on global warming issues as it's in our best interest to keep the use of gas and oil at it's max(lol).It's time for Canadian scientists to step up to the plate and protest this destructive policy.I'm sure that public opinion along with pressure from Suzuki and friends can perhaps change the PM.'s outlook on this very frightening issue.

I agree with all of the posts on this page, but the most unfortunate thing here is that despite Bob McDonald pointing this out to those of us that have noticed this blog, very few people will hear about it.

Mr. McDonald, please do what you can to have this on the noon and evening news casts as there are a great many voters that are concerned with scientific matters, escpeically global warming, who will see this as a slap in the face to what Canadians want in these matters.

To the rest of us, write your MP. If your MP is a Conservative, write to the leaders of the other parties and have this issue raised up on the floor of the House. Send a link to this blog to friends and if they agree, then have send them your email along with the addresses of the party leaders and encourage them to send a message.

Speaking loudly is the only way that change will occur.

The politicization of science is a disturbing thing to see, and it seems as though it's all over the place these days. Global warming is dismissed as being "speculative", federally funded scientists have to kowtow to "Canada's New Government" or risk losing their jobs, and now science is being eliminated from the decision-making process. This attack on science is a serious problem and more people need to know about it.

Define "scientific paper" as truth; does this apply to "Big Pharma." I assume you were only refering to reports specifically about "nature."

It is now glaringly apparent that the country is being run for business (i.e. special interest)and the short-sighted. We need citizens such as Dr. Carty advising our governments - even if that advice is unpopular. Get rid of the dinosaurs, the less-than-mediochres and let's put in some MP's who are intelligent and who work for the common good. Yep, get rid of this neo-HArris govt in Ottawa-sweep them into the tar-pits.

I have the information and an email drafted that I alluded to, so if you are interested, let me know through homerj32@hotmail.com.

Mr. McDonald, this is a free mail account, so it I am not concerned with it being exposed to others on your blog.

Thanks

I think we should be deeply concerned by this latest move by Mr.Harper in dismissing the National Science Adviser.
In today's world it would seem essential for a government to have such a qualified scientist as Dr.Carty to keep them well informed in this area.
It is very troubling that a pattern seems to have developed with the Harper Government whereby qualified people appointed by the former government are dismissed for spurious reasons. Just recently Ms. Keen, the Nuclear watchdog, was dismissed from her position. I find this a worrisome trend.

Thanks to all the left leaning bloggers for their comments. The FACTS are that climate change and kyoto and everything else is USELESS without having India, China and the United States on board. We have side stepped the US recession thanks to Harper and implementing Kyoto (which is a whole other matter) would put us flat out into a recession. Think before you act people.

canada continuing down the road of servitude to corporate interests and the wonders of the free markets of the south

Yet another stupid decision by our federal government. Harper embarrassed us on the world stage by backing out of Kyoto and seems to only be doing whatever his "American Friends" advise him to do, or whatever he thinks the "Americans" want to hear.

So lets step back 500 years..Develop a fear of God rather than scientific explanation of events, believe the world is flat, the sun rises and sets everday because the earth is the center of the universe and Global warming/Climate change is just a fallacy.
It's high time we got back on the Kyoto protocols.. at this time it may be possible to enact change.. rather than forging ahead twenty years for businesses sake so they can make Billions of dollars and react to the inevitable 25 years from now when there will be no possibility of global change.

We need a new Government in office in this country one that is not centered out of the White House in Washington DC. We are Canadians not Americans. We have no want to be Americans. All they will do is control us, destroy our natural resources as they have overconsumed in thier own country. Then they will discard us as easily as an empty bottle of Coke.

This is indeed a disturbing situation.It is also another illustration of how lacking this goverment is when it comes to communications skills.
Having said that,if an election were held today,I would have to hold my nose,and vote Conservative.A sad commentary on the state of politics in Canada.
I guess I'm dreaming when I wish for two "viable" choices at election time.One centre right,and one centre left would offer voters options.It seems we went from a choice of one left of centre party,to a choice of one right wing party.Neither of them very attractive to me.
It seems to me,Mr.Cretien laboured under the illusion that voters were always voting him into office.I always thought he was winning "by default" because Conservatives were split up by being divided.Now it looks like Mr.Harper thinks he got "voted in" as PM.Again,I am left thinking he won "by default" because the Liberals lost all credibility.He rose to office,not by being voted in,but by the Liberals being voted out.
Just once before I meet my maker,I would like to vote "for" someone,as opposed to voting "against" the ruling party.
Canadians will never be unanimous in their choices of either policy,or party.But does anyone else ever go to vote,and with there was a "none of the above" box on the ballot?

Finally another cushy, overpaid job eliminated from this bloated government. Now get rid of a few of those assistant deputy ministers and save us tax payers some more money..

Again we see that our governments (Provincial and federal) are run on "hot air" or political spun government new - Just like the Bush government to our south and not rational reason. I hope that we as Canadians will come to our scenses. We seem to be making non rational decisions when we vote in our democratic representatives.
Are we really going to allow America to run our country? I certianly hope not.
From lots of the earlier comments I think we will ask for change in the future

Once again (big surprise) government is guilty of representing their seats and not the country paying their wages. Never before has it been more apparent that Canada has a chance to show some friggin' balls and actually do what's right, despite their gutless viewpoints, as opposed to waiting to see what everyone else (Bush) is doing. Oh, poor oil sands industry for being shunted by scientific findings....perhaps they should have thought of that before lobbying millions to get the land. Science isn't about proving someone else wrong, it's about learning not to make the same mistake twice. And since when has government ever been rewarded for saving money: if you ask me, David Suzuki could be a national leader, and at the same time help turn everything around.

stupid is-stupid does..what else can a person
say about the Harper led government..
Withe rest of the world sitting up and starting to listen to the science community
about the earth and what we must do to protect
it this "Gump"in office decides he does not need any advice
I'm willing to bet in the next election there
is going to be a number of long time Conservatives that are going to let him know
how wrong he is...

I have a sneaky suspicion a religious-based bias lies behind this decision; one that has a nasty ultra-conservative distaste for science and its truth claims. When will god-forsaken religious fears and bias stop getting in the way of truth which science tries to achieve. We know this is "religion" disguised as politics, and politics is idleness at best not science and idleness is the devil's workshop!!

I disagree with some of Bob Mcdonald's assertions about the impartiality of science. Not only is the enterprise subject to the same political pressures of funding and votes (ie grants and status among peers) as do other matters of public interest, but doubt is often not only about small matters but whole hypotheses. Just ask a bunch of paleontologists about our human family tree, or pharmacologists about contraindications of any drug versus its overall efficacy.

There is a better chance of good science being communicated when there is more than one arbiter. That said, governments need information, and like the other commentators, I worry that science is being sidelined because it brings up genuinely inconvenient truths.

Yup, go Bush go! ooops, I mean Harper:) Someone clone Trudeau so he can take a stand and flip off Bush before he leaves office:)

Mr McDonalds Philosophy is bang on. Scientific people can recognize it instantly. He is acutely aware of the truth, in this case, that the government's interest is in concealing the truth rather than exposing it. I thank him for informing me of this change in the gov't roster. I can now firmly take the opinion of my friends who are against Mr Harper. I used to support him. I attempted to assist in starting up an important training program here in Fort St John and was stonewalled by a college administration who was unbelievably uninformed of the particular needs for teaching this trade. Being uninformed is one thing, and forgivable. Choosing to be so is another matter altogether. I abandoned my students at this trade school because to have remained would have misled them. I have just abandoned Mr Harper. I cannot imagine that my government would not regard Dr Carty's former position as invaluable for making informed and morally just decisions for Canada. Thank you, Mr McDonald, for your judicious reporting. Mr Harpers position will soon be vacant, and I'm wondering if you're very busy for the next few years?

This is quite disappointing, but not surprising in light of the Chalk River situation. The level of apparent partisan decisions that this Minority government makes it very difficult to consider that they are governing in the best interests of our whole society - and should result in their quick dismissal in the next election by a well-educated electorate. I regret, though, that the electorate is probably too easily swayed by polls and promises.

Well done Steven! You are now free to run your propaganda campaign without the interference of those dam scientists. Phooey to those scientists! Phooey to global warming. I only got one year left in office, and despite the fact that my country is finanical ruin, I can at least look forward to retiring comfortably from all the kickbacks I'll be receiving from the Saudi's. In the unfortunate event that you lose the next election, come down and visit me in Texas, and I'll get you a job running one of my buddies oil companies.

Furthermore, Mr. McDonald is wrong when he says that you can't a priori shoot down science. Of course you can. A scientific statement can be discredited by showing an error in reasoning, or showing that a simpler and more elegant theory explains the observations.

This only shows what I remarked in my previous post: that experience with science doesn't always go hand in hand with a detailed understanding of the scientific method.

Excuse me, but I certainly wasn't embaressed by Canada's stance on Kyoto & the discussions in Bali. It's about time someone stood up to the bludgeoning by Kyoto pushers. What is really needed is a good scientific debate with all the evidence laid out for people to hear the many research results that demonstrate other causes of climate change, not to mention the fact that climate change has always been occuring & is normal.

As for eliminating one advisory position, that in no way means that scientific research resuslts won't be part of the decision making process in government. I just means that a one person advisor's bias has been removed.

As much as I disagree with many things that the Harper gov does, I'm not sure this is such a bad thing. Science, is supposed to be able to be tested, results given, and then be tested again to achieve the same results. We currently have enough flawed logic in our goverenment and I don't think we need anymore. Harper should however concentrate on Canada alone, and let the US deal with their own issues. Canada has the strength and ability to be completely independant of our neighbors to the south, given the proper research and leadership.

Science and religion are both necessary and positive forces guiding mankind throughout its existence. Politics is the force opposing these other two in its struggle for dominance.

Destroying religious traditions like God, the Lord's prayer and Christmas has been at the forefront of our governments' dictates for several decades.

Now, they turn to the next enemy that challenges their power, science and scientists.

Another reason why society doesn't need politicians to continue in its march through history.

Without government, chaos.
With government, greater chaos. Amen.

As all that seems infected with the infected spies, so it is as all appears yellow to the jaundiced eyes.

I take it not too long now till The Nature of Things, Quirks and Quarks run into "creative differences" with some new programming guidelines and are discontinued "funding" and then the end of the CBC after that.

Thats what you get when you criticize your new government.

Good old Stephen! If he keeps it up, Canadains are going to have as little access to information as some of our neighbours to the south. This is a man with a mission and one that will be of no benefit to anyone but his right wing fundamentalist pals. I think this lastest move is disgusting, but maybe it will help to get him ushered out of Ottawa. Please,please hope so!

Another rant by a CBC Liberal puppet.

If you are interested in good government according to your views, then stick your own neck out and run. Perhaps, if you get enough votes, you might find yourself in a position to influence or make a difference. It doesn't do anyone any good to constantly criticize without offering alternative suggestions.

Wow. This is unbelievable (but really not surprising). I knew we were in trouble the minute this man got into office. It is so concerning to me that this government is looking more and more like the current US government on these sorts of matters. This government is clearly deluded in terms of what is scientific fact and how important these facts really are in our lives. This man and his government needs to go, because this is looking like such a slippery slope. I cannot believe that in this day in age the people running this country feel that a knowledge of scientific facts and current issues is dispensible. I am concerned for our country's future, if this keeps up, not to mention my concern for my scientific career. I'm just waiting for those massive Science funding cuts to start... you know, since what we do really doesn't matter.

Disgraceful. To ignore science is to ignore truth and fact. If the Government of Canada is not interested in truth and fact, it must be interested in ignorance. Unfortunately, on the whole, none of the opposition parties look any better. The only thing lower than our politicians is our voter turn out.

The puppet masters who waggle Mr. Bush`s mouth have lasooed the synapse connections of the industrialists who were in control of the stuffed suit parading as our fearless leader.

Who can we look to for leadership?

I imagine Brian could be had for some trinkets in brown bags. What a disgrace!

Where are the Lester Pearsons?

Mr : Harper's policies regarding the elimination of the National Science Advisor can only be reflected upon as " THE GREAT LEAP BACKWARDS " .

This is very revealing and I am delighted they are showing themselves for what they truly are.
I am hopeful that Canadians are literate enough and informed enough to realize that Harpie would lead us into a corporate-controlled theocracy modeled after the U.S. Endless war, drill for oil wherever its found and damn the environment, faith-based initiatives, security state....be aware my fellow Canadians.

I am aghast, dismayed and very, very concerned. I think Mr. Harper is now comfortable in his present position and has, over the last 6 months, begun to show us his true colours. Please, please call an election soon - this man cannot continue to embarrass Canada and is undoing many progressive steps taken towards social justice and environmental awareness, let alone stewardship. The public interest is not of interest to the current Government on Parliament Hill and we are seeing that in action in every week that goes by.

Un-freaking- believable.

God will guide him. After all, everything flows from Jesus..

so, although it doesn't sound like a great idea, lets not start implying he follows bush or Klein(who really was better then most premiers, albeit sometimes too honest). Its not like Harper wouldn't be similiar to the US if Bill Clinton was in power, or when Paul Martin was in power, he was chummy with Bush and Clinton. The next Democrat in DC will be pals with conservatives and liberals, and the same is true with replicans and liberal or conservatives. On a political scale people, the liberals and conservatives are almost identicial and in the middle, so please spare us all.

And don't compare the billions and lost, wasted and stolen money that the Liberals did, to Stephen merely chopping a science position. Its not like millions are still spent by the government on many science and technology endeavors across the country. Ultimately politicians vote to what the majority of canadians want/need, and climate is one thing that is certainly on the road map. Kyoto wouldn't work in its current form, and I somewhat wonder if any of you really know what it entailed and really what it means.

CANADIANS HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE NEXT ELECTION, I HOPE THAT THEY WILL LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THIS BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY AND ASK THEMSELVES IS THIS WHAT WE WANT? FOR MY GRANDCHILDREN, AND FUTURE GRANDCHILDREN I WILL EXERCISE PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY,AND WILL HELP TO ENSURE THAT PRESIDENT HARPER IS NOT IN OFFICE NEXT ELECTION. I HOPE THE OPPOSITION PARTIES HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL TO DO WHAT WE COLLECTIVELY ELECTED THEM TO DO, IF NOT WE WILL ONLY CONTINUE ON THE PATH OF SELF DESTRUCTION. GOD BLESS AND SAVE THIS COUNTRY. (JOE BONNEVIE MONCTON NB)

Scientists? We don't need no stinkin' scientists! -- Stephen Harper

What's really sad is this being a story. The position was literally created about three years ago! It makes it sound as though Harper is cancelling all high school science classes or something. If scientific evidence is need in the context of legislating, the relevant House of Commons committee can call expert witnesses - and it often does! Get back to reporting on real news...

My area is criminal jstice - not science - but it seems clear that the knowledge deconstruction that we see Harper promote is characteristic of everything he does. His proposals to centralize sentencing with harsh mandatory prison terms flies in the face of the great bulk of research - including that which had been commissioned by the Justice department.
So far as I can tell, everything with Harper is pure politics. Scince, justice - what other evidence-based policy areas are being dummied down to suit his amitions?

As an analytical person, an engineer with an MBA, I like to try to understand the reasons behind what I see happening.

I understand that decision making can be a lot easier when you don’t have all that inconvenient information to deal with.

I understand that, though or PM needs to hear about technical things, he will hear all he needs to hear from those who profit, or wish to profit, from activities related to the technical thing.

I understand that any scientific evidence that indicates an economic activity is harmful will be of little value to the PM because addressing it properly will affect the economy.

I understand that it is frustrating that our national leader is not interested in technical briefings but I recognize that it is not his fault. He is focused on obtaining a majority in government and believes, probably correctly, that his goal is more easily attained by pursuing popularity through impression management and creative marketing than by establishing credibility.

The power of emotion based marketing has made credibility obsolete. Money spent on creative marketing can produce short-term popularity gains that can win an election. Marketing that attacks the credibility of the opponent is an important part of “marketing for success” in politics.

I understand that consumer product marketing focused on anxiety and self-interest can result in people who do not care to, or do not know how to, determine if what they are hearing is credible. So “popular beats credible – hands down”.

I understand that if you don’t have anything nice to say you shouldn’t say anything at all. So…I am pleased that the PM and his minions have recognized that they were wasting the science advisor’s time.

I support the comments to this article demanding Canadians rid us of Mr. Harper and his overt failures by properly using our vote. It should not surprise voters that there is a pattern. Our government, the peoples' elected representatives, does not have our collective interests in mind. They are shills for corporate and financial interests at the cost of knowledge. It is we who are paying to have the corporations and monetary interests remove our collective sense and further remover any autonomy, collective interests, and our collective wellbeing from our control and oversight. It is with reluctance that I must admit that you cannot teach a fool to rescue their own ignorance. Let's get rid of the current government for one that represents our interests and one that is capable of being stewards of our interests. This government will continue to do damage that will take too long a time and much more money to repair. Don't forget, this government is using our money, not theirs. Why have we bothered to give these incredibly unintelligent people our support?

Neither the Harper nor the Bush administrations understand the importance of evidence based science. They prefer to be guided by beliefs which may or may not be true. They do not wish to be distracted by unwelcome facts which, if acted upon, might reduce their political support. Let them not shoot the messenger because they do not like the message.
It is essential that an office, similar to that of the National Science Advisor be maintained

You people say the the PM will not get all the facts without a science adviser. Are you so blinded by your disdain for conservatives that you can actually think that this reporter is giving you all the facts. It's the CBC people! the liberal party's propaganda arm, the Conservative Bashing Club! The reporters and columnists of this network omit and distort facts every bit as much (if not more) then the politicians of this country. You all need to take a critical thinking course!

Until now have avoided the idea that Harper et-al is merely another George Bushite, in Canadian clothing!
However this government with it's "Don't confuse me with the truth" attitude, until it is abosolutely pushed down its throat is really worrisome. And does seem to be leading us down the same path as that of the US towards a very minor future role in world affairs. Canada's respected role and contribution with other allies during WWII being long, long over.
Also seems anything embrrasssing, to this government, occurs, it appears that a brief witchhunt takes place and somebody gets fired, or moved, or downgraded etc. The Science advisor being one case in point.
Seems like if anyone doesn't agree with 'The brass' they are outed?
The peremptory firing of the Atomic Energy watchdog Keen has all those hallmarks; embarassment for the governemnt/Canada, an official seemingly trying to do their (tough) job and then bang; fired!
This Harper government also seems to have managed, in fairly short time, to get a number of the provinces mad at them.
We gotta get rid of these neo-cons; they are dangerous to Canada. And that's a complete turn around to my attitude of a couple of years ago, then, that was a government that would 'do things' rather than Canadian dither.

Linda Keen, the former head of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, was let go. We'll
hear from her this week.

Now Arther Carty the National Science Advisor has been let go.

Both of these people are under the Minister Industry Canada.

The Prime Minister's Office, the ministers and the prime minister's controlling ways are showing themselves as withholding information, demonstrating confusion about what they know and don't know, and pointing blame away from themselves. Many examples here.

We are in a time where the Internet provides many sources of information. Many dubious. Our government and the governed need to have expert, trusted, objective sources of information. The government's behaviour by dismissing sources of information, guidance and advice in the science field is reckless.

When your world is flat, who needs science?

I'm not surprised Harper has done this. After all, he's a neoconservative and this is what neoconservatives do. What surprises and disappoints me is that the Canadian electorate gave him power. I shudder to think what this individual will do if he ever gets a majority. You'd think we'd have learned something watching the disastrous Bush administration over the past eight years. Apparently not.

This is ridiculous, we live in an age of science and technology....where the heck is this governemnt's head at????

How presumptuous to think that one man has the expertise to be a voice of clarity on the science issues facing Canada. This is just another piece of government redundancy. After all we have NSERC, NRC and a host of specialty line departments which are already there to give understanding and advice to the government.
How curious the CBC again campaigning for more bureaucracy when one of the reasons it doesn't work is because there is too much of it doing the same thing.

It is quite remarkable how Harper's government is lacking foresight and perspective. This is another tragic example of the Conservatives are isolating themselves into an insular position whereby no other facts and opinions are allowed.
We should not kid ourselves - this is an example of a dictatorship. Thankfully, we still have the right to vote. Let us remember this story as evidence that the decision to eliminate a thoughtless, careless and bullying government is still ours to make.

Now everyone is being a little hard on our PM. We all know he has high morals. The fact that his morals usually conflict with sientific facts is reason enuff for the dismissal of the national science advisor. After all we are only democratic on election day, the day we pick our dictators.

Ed Stelnak must be Steven Harper's new hero (now that Bush is neutered.) One assumes that neither man has reproduced, that their genetic line will die out with them. Otherwise, how could they care so little for the world they're leaving?
Meanwhile, the "it's just a liberal CBC conspiracy" comments, the "we need more research" delayers and the "there is no climate change" deniers demonstrate that dinosaurs still walk the earth and that Big Oil can buy them.
If we as individuals and a society and a species don't DO something (small, large, whatever)then the loathing and disgust that our grandchildren will have for us will be earned.
Be a conservative - conserve!

To DBD from Vancouver. I took, and passed, a course in Critical Thinking, that was the name of the course, as part of my MBA at the University of Calgary a little over 20 years ago.

Where and when did you take your course?

I am utterly aghast! I cannot believe that any government would be so short-sighted as to obliterate the source of unbiased, expert scientific opinion, backed up by evidence based observations and logical reasoned conclusions. Here we are, faced with all the problems of global warming and our government feels it doesn't need scientific advice! May the next election take place soon !

NO!... no... see... I have read each an every one of these posts... and I'm still shouting NO!!!

I DEMAND the Right to have a National Science Adviser. I am Canadian... could You (points to Stephen Harpers New Government of Canada) dismiss my National Defence? NO! I'm still foggy under what impenetrable and paradoxical circumstances allow them to make that kind of move... irrevocably. Is this partially on the shoulders of Harper's Opposition, by not stopping this bold move... or at least delaying and bringing it to public light? Or is there a screwy aspect of how the system works which allows them to DESTROY A VITAL NATIONAL FUNCTION??

I DEMAND that my Leadership be informed by an impartial and academically respected Science Advisor. This is something I'm willing to be politically angry about. How dare you remove the voice of truth and unbiased information from the highest levels of decision-making for my beloved home? I say that I will not tolerate or stand for this... it's enough to make me want to do more than just complain... I don't think that I am alone, either.

Students should rally, concerned citizens should hassle their MPs and be genuinely upset, Scientists (commercial, students, everyone) should stop for a Day to Mourn the Murder of Truth from the New Canadian Government...

Okay... that might be going too far, or too harsh, but then again... maybe it might not. And if we don't make a ruckuss and make Our Government accountable... make them know that they aren't allowed to do something like this... then we are complicit by virtue of our passivity to our own domination.

This is a lot like when you hear about that person who gets beaten and killed in a public place and everyone around just stops and watches. We are not that mob of bystanders. Canada is better than that. We have a better system than that. We're better people than that.

A responsible and prosperous country needs to have a respected and capable Science Advisor. I think that position should require a lot of teaching experience as well, personally.

Some passion wouldn't be amiss, either... in that position's voice... and ours.

Stand Up and Speak.

Oh... one more thing to think about.

What kind of example does this set to other countries... developing nations... unstable and fragile states... theocratic entities... that Canada doesn't need a National Science Adviser?

There are many ways to obtain the necessary scientific data other than having a special advisor appointed for that pupose.

The fact that this advisiors role has been eliminated does not mean decisions will be void of advice from the science community. In fact, it may allow a more comprehensive understanding than recieiving input from a single individual.

There is a huge problem in society that sees science as only another belief system, either to be approved or denied on the idea that it is someones "opinion". Science should translate as evidence, not as technology, or opinion, and hopefully this new perspective will lead politicians (especially those with absolutely no science understanding or background) in a more science based, secular direction for the betterment of all peoples.

Quite simply this is the latest in a string of foolish decisions on the part of an intellectually bankrupt Party. Practically celebrates stupidity.

The dismissal hardly matters as the Harper government had absolutely no intention of listening to anything a scientist had to say anyway. They haven't let awkward facts get in the way of policy yet. Look on the bright side -- at least they aren't openly talking about legislating Christianity as is going on south of the border (well, at least not while they are in a minority position).

The biggest downside here is that the next non-Reform/Conservative Alliance/Conservative government will have to go through the trouble and expense of setting up this office again. Let's hope they don't do so only for the sake of appearances.

Science is about seeking the best explanation of phenomena independent of bias, prejudice or ulterior motives. Arguably this has been the greatest single force that has shaped western civilization over the past 300 years, yet today we witness non-scientists in industry and government manipulating science to serve narrow economic and political agendas. Their hubris and greed for power is stunning. Over the past 20 years science has already largely become the handmaiden of industry that increasingly exerts disproportionate influence over the public imagination. Also, in recent years many authors have attacked the Enlightenment project, purportedly showing its shortcomings. Well, by design it is imperfect, but has the singular advantage against all other modes of comprehending the world of being self-correcting. I wonder what will become of us if the deep irrationalism of consumerism, corporatism, and religion runs amok in the world without the strong counterweight of reason---and evidence---to oppose their excesses…

The apologists claim that there may be a better way to access scientific opinion is all very well. However, I would be more confident if this would come in the same message which announced the dismissal of the government Scientific Advisor. I can find no such indications. The government has dispensed with the services of a scientific voice and offer no alternative sources. One is left with the impression that the government is comfortable with its own scientific awareness. Dissenting voices need not apply. This is a trend, expect more of the same.

Firstly I would like to say that I am one of few liberal-minded people in this replublic of alberta, so seeing what this neo-con leader of ours does doesn't suprise me. I've had no choice but to endure this type of thought my whole life. One good thing, I hope, is that as people migrate from other provinces to this fine land in search of employment, the politics will change accordingly.
Until then it is up to you fine people of the eastern provinces to save us. Yes, the liberals were scandalized last election and they needed change of ranks to occur. But please, please, PLEASE!, lets free ourselves of this mind numbing, fend for yourself, unscientific doctrine that won't hurt us, but hurt our children for years to come.
I hope the next leader we have running this beautiful country will realize that science IS justified, the world is not flat, and we can't play with the big lizards.
Go stevie go, and take the rest of the neo-cons with you.
-a lonely man in a clouded world of backwater ideals

Rather than listen to an opinion for the media I would love to know more about the position, the qualifiacation and what Mr. Harper's plans are. I imediately have concern when I see it is an appointee from the Liberals as in the past almost EVERY appointee by the Liberals has lacked independent credibility. I know there will be screaming and accusatory proclamations but for most of the last 20 years the Liberal have run Canada into the ground with a lack of thinking, planning and objectivity. Mostly they got by by bullying and screaming righteous indignation at any opposing views. I look forward to removing the media faces of the Liberal fronts of support. I would hope the replacements are credible, objective and real. In spite of some of the comments above I believe the move is necessary as there seemed little science behind these posotions. For my point I point to the lack of objectivity from Dr. Suzuki who I believe is one of the worst for staking position based not on facts or science but media attention and glamour and political bias. I know the areas that I have significant knowledge have proven to me that there are few in the public domain representing politicos that are objective or honest. In my view, the liberals and the NDP were the worst in supporting issues based on political moves rather than fact. So I doubt anything Mr. Layton and Mr Dion would say and anybody supported by them

The CBC seems to attract a plenitude of abject reversion to the mean at best types. Reflection or projection? Horrendus, bilious portrayal of Canada's education system and it's lost( like totally ) generation.

WOW there are a lot of Liberals on here. I suppose we should give every smart Liberal in Canada a nice cushy, high paying patronage appointment. Who cares where the money comes from, as long as it goes into a Liberal pocket!.. there are Univerisities with huge research budgets and science associations that are constantly advising government. I think narrow mindedness is one of the biggest downfalls most Liberals have. Any government that makes political decisions based on one mans opinion, no matter how smart or educated that man is, is just plain stupid. Yes there is global warming, yes the ice is melting and yes, we need to do something about it NOW, but we also have to be fiscally responsible and all patronage jobs should be illiminated. Yes all of them, even the ones handed out by the Conservatives!

And please, stop just accepting the Liberal media's twist on everything, be a self thinker and come up with your own opinions. You might be surprised to find that the media is not always right, in fact they are almost always "left"

Stephen Harper has the biggest ego out of anyone I have ever seen. This just proves that Stephen Harper is a total joke.

We all have advisors. Financial, legal, real estate, etc. Is it too far of a stretch to think that the PM might need a science advisor?

I think just about anyone else in Canada would be better at running this country than Harper. I wonder how history will look at Harper and Bush? Two men who have repeatedly ignored scientific consensus.

To use a famous quote:
"stupid is as stupid does"

Science or rather scientists can be affected by "opinion" too.Especially ,when scientists are hired by politicians to research things for them. They are hired for their political affiliation(s) and not their impartial,truth seeking role as scientists. That way they'll come up with the desired "research" results pleasing to their employers.The politicians can then use the most abused and shallow argument of: "studies have shown...". Governments should always seek varied and impartial scientific agencies when scientific advice is required.If thats at all possible...

Someone should start asking questions as to how Peter Mansbridge with his Grade 10 education (yes , really) can make so much money (at taxpayers expense) reading the news. The CBC should be s bit more balanced. Appears that anything bthe liberals do is great. Dion should stick to walking his dog.

I'm no scientist, but I am entitled to my opinions, all I can say is that this is further proof that Harper is nothing more than a Bush lacky. We all know that both Harper and Bush are personally responsible for climate change--every scientist knows that. Kudos to Bob McDonald and the CBC for bringing this to the public's attention.

I had voted conservative to get the liberals out
now I shall have to rethink, it looks like the PM is taking Canada down the same road as Bush.
It looks like the two major parties are becoming
a feed for our tax money going to the big business, they are the ones who don't want the science to interfere with their excessive profits.
Maybe it's time to vote NDP, something I have never considered before.

Harper's a wingnut. If he could make it possible, he'd ensure every Canadian subscribed to the Western Standard and he'd start mandating that creationism is taught in our public schools. It is almost impossible to believe that he fired his science advisor considering how ignorant he is of important scientific issues. I guess he feels God will just show him the way...kind of reminiscent of GW.

Well I for one believe that Harper wasn't so much voted in as he was annointed.

You don't need science when you have faith.

Having posted earlier, just wanted to comment on the partisan remarks that are flying around regarding Liberal and Conservative. Regardless of your political leanings, this position is necessary because the PMO, contrary to their own belief does not know everything about everything, and requires counsel on scientific issues at the ready. This is in the same manner that they require lawyers.

The ignorance displayed by the PMO in this case is tha tthey demoted then dismissed the post because it was a Liberal appointment, rather than just replacing the appointee with a Conservative candidate of equal standing, of which I am sure there are many in the country. Regardless of my poiltical beliefs, that would have satisfied me that they PMO was at least recognizing it's own limitations in matters it knows nothing about.

Like listening to the country...

I too have great respect for Bob McDonald and his contributions to the understanding of science in Canada. I too have disdain for Steven Harper and his presidential manner of governance in Canada.

On this issue, I want to agree with the majority of posts published here, but let's be fair. The role of National Science Advisor is being superseded by the Science, Technology and Innovation Council. Our government will not be left without expert scientific and technical advice.

We should be discussing whether the STIC is up to the task, not ignoring or overlooking its existence.

It is funny how the PM has suddenly become the only expert on science matters, along with nuclear matters, elections matters and and a few more as we can see from the growing number of casualties of those terminated by the PM office. ... Is it not part of a civil society to be able to listen to others opinions, debate and choose what is best for the collective?....Oh sorry, that was if we were still living in a democracy.

Now remember people, this is MY opinion. As long as we have people in politics that are as religious as Steve and George there will never be any scientific values leading decisions by them. We all know that the more we learn from science the more religion looks like brainwashing. Religious people will never take science seriously as it often makes them question their presious Bible. Religion is a topic that should NEVER come up with politics but always does, and until this day comes we will always have people that say science is wrong and the Bible says this isn't the way the earth comes to an end so why worry? After hearing the way he handled the atomic situation why should we worry. What a Hillbilly!

It is -35 degree here and -40 in areas nearby. Science says we are having global warming including warm winters. So much for truth. I go by the thermometer.

When the Harper government was first elected, I was most concerned over the apparent extremist view of its leader. Actions taken over the last two years have only served to reinforce this opinion and to further question the anti-democratic nature of those actions. The biggest issue that arises is that our current Prime Minister is not interested in any facts that differ from his own opinions or beliefs.

It began when the press was denied access to the PM and most, if not all, of his Ministers, for, in the opinion of our PM, it was mportant for the government’s message to be delivered clearly,without the opinions of the national media. Of course, there was only one person who could do that – PM Harper. Then he muzzled his Ministers (threatening to fire them if they didn’t obey)despite the fact that these same Ministers were elected by their constituents and presumably atleast a few of them are intelligent people with valid opinions.

Then we move to Canada’s drastic policy changes on the international front – taking us from one where our mediating voice was respected and sought after to solve political and diplomatic impasses to one where we are vilified on the world stage as being lackeys of the US and dinosaur-like in our outlook. The government’s stance on Kyoto was just another example where the scientific advice and facts were totally ignored and the opinion of our leader overruled and prevailed (despite the fact that much of that advice was internationally respected and came from
Canadian scientists). We should also remember that the Harper government changed our long
standing policy regarding Canadian prisoners facing the death sentence in other countries. This is not to say that, at the end of the day, we might want to re-examine this policy in a public forum (like parliament, say), but rather that it was done behind closed doors without the benefit of democratic debate, and was instead based on the opinion of our urrent leader.

One of the most recent actions was the firing of Linda Keen, of the Canadian Nuclear Safety
Commission who dared not to buckle under the political will of the PM and his Minister, who as a lawyer presumably knows a lot more about nuclear safety than any independent body. Now we come to the firing of Arthur Carty, the National Science Advisor. A well respected University of Waterloo professor and former head of the National Research Council, Dr. Carty’s role was to provide sound scientific advice in the face of a myriad of political opinions. That voice, too, is now silenced.

How long will we as Canadians put up with this behavior? If these actions were being taken by a leader of a developing “banana republic”, we would either be dismissive or more likely outraged. The biggest question for all of us is if PM Harper feels he can take all these actions in a minority government situation, what would he do in a majority setting – would the democracy that our forefathers fought so hard to keep and that we cherish be at jeopardy. The potential answer to that question alarms me more than my original concern!!!

Who needs science or scientists when some political leaders believe all that's needed is faith and a pipeline to the ultimate
"truth?" All this will change soon when most Canadians and U.S. voters who are "fed up" with their elected representatives will throw out these rascals at the ballot boxes,
beginning with Alberta.

Juan

Harper's government can always get it's scientific perspective from watching re-runs of The Flintstones or the Jetsons, or from the Bible.

Faith-based decision making is more hip than evidence based reasoning anyway, It's always more fun and comforting to ponder on how the world should b, rather than dwelling on, observing and understanding the natural world.

I'm a teacher. Even my very weakest students understand that scientific proof is needed to support an argument in an essay about any environmental issue. National policy is surely more important than an essay. Maybe our prime minister should repeat grade 9 geography.

I wonder how long it will be before Bob gets the axe? He should know better and stay quiet.

I guess this isn't the place for balanced reporting or for that matter balance in opinion on the posting boards, but for those who are so willing to show their partisan driven ignorance, please read the following. "The role of National Science Advisor is being superseded by the Science, Technology and Innovation Council. Our government will not be left without expert scientific and technical advice." The post that has been eliminated was put there for political reasons by the Liberals a mere four years ago. And now you know the rest of the story.

To the Almighty, All-knowing, All-Powerful, All-Supreme, his holiness the Prime Minister of Canada. Please, since you have so much knowledge in the matters of science and life to not need a "scientific advisor", PLEASE spread your wealth of knowledge to the us, the common people of Canada. We would love to have just even a fraction of your gratuitously large intelligence.

One would think that so many posters who take an obvious interest in science would apply the same pricipals to an op ed as they expect scientists to apply to a theory. I guess for partisans it is just easier to accept the word of a cbc employee and then to do the research draw a conclusion. From the news article "With the establishment of the Science, Technology and Innovation Council in May 2007, the government reviewed a number of federal advisory bodies and decided to phase out the Office of the National Science Adviser (ONSA) and discontinue the role of national science adviser, Industry Canada said in a statement Wednesday." and from the same article, those who are most disappointed are the research lobyists "Mark Henderson, the managing editor of Research Money, the trade publication focused on science and technology policy that first reported news of the planned closing on Friday, said the scientific community had high hopes for the office but has been disappointed with the results because of underfunding." Easy to draw the conclusion that this government isn't interested in science, when you aren't told or aren't interested in hearing both sides.

And for those are interested to know the rest of the story, please read the following.

OTTAWA, June 15, 2007 — The Honourable Maxime Bernier, Minister of Industry, today announced the creation of the Government of Canada's new Science, Technology and Innovation Council and the appointment of Dr. Howard Alper as Chair of the Council.

This new Council will provide the government with policy advice on science and technology issues and will produce regular national reports that measure Canada's science and technology performance against international standards of excellence.

Kevin, does this sound like a government that doesn't believe in science? By the way, I hope your wish is granted, but for more then a fraction for you.

Everyone knows that the truth is the first casuality of any war and the war we have is the propaganda war. If science is interfering with corporate realizations of millions and billions more in imaginary money then it will have to go. Pretty soon, we'll have the government rounding up scientists and getting them to repent their evil ways and follow the book of greed. If there is a way to further enslave a population, having them scientifically aware is not the answer, fear is. We have lost something that I thought democracy would hold in highest esteem, freedom of information and to be informed. Well, back to the global warming here in Edmonton, a balmy -46.

The interesting thing about the Science, Technology, and Innovation Council is that it appears to be a council entirely devoted to making scientific discoveries to support industry. The recently appointed head of the council, Dr. Alper, is a highly reknowned chemist known for his research in applications for the pharmaceutical, petrochemical, and commodity industries. So basically, thus far anyways, there seems to be no indication that this council will be overly concerned with environmental issues. Although the Advantage Canada Strategy reiterates the word environment over and over, what I see as being the likely outcome is a council formed of decorated scientists devoted to industrial advancement; people who are even aware of this council will likely have faith that it's considering the natural environment b/c it's composed of respected scientists, however they'll be misled b/c of the true intent of the council. We all enjoy a healthy economy, but the way Harper's going about it is simply by selling off our resources and forming a committee to justify it. He and Jim Flaherty will enjoy their time in office while oil prices are high and they can please the public with tax cuts and then be out of office when the oil runs dry and somebody else has to deal with it.

Growing up we were under the empression that one became the best they could in their feild of work Competent ,knowledgeable in the workings and dealings.Now I see the Govt apponits ministers to handle the file,and if it does not go well they shuffle the cabinet Its like having my Plumber screw up and then give him/her a shot at running the lazer eye clinic ?You wouldnt do it It makes no sense So By letting go your ear to the feild, You are now a Science expert my dad use to say once you think your smarter than the rest your done.Always keep learning Harper scares me

Well lets see....we sold the Avero Arrow out because the US told us to, and along with that all of our scientists left for the Apolo space program. Lately we sold out all of our Robotics to the US which was the pride of the Canadian Space program IE Canada Arm...along with the millions of dollars of Canadian Tax payers money....Harper's right...no need for science in this country...shewww....

"Peter

Ottawa

Someone should start asking questions as to how Peter Mansbridge with his Grade 10 education (yes , really) can make so much money (at taxpayers expense) reading the news. The CBC should be s bit more balanced. Appears that anything bthe liberals do is great. Dion should stick to walking his dog."

This is exactly the point of this article. Thank you, Peter from Ottawa, for cutting through all that garbage about "science" to clarify why Peter Mansbridge reads the news. Let me guess... you're okay with the axing of the science adviser?

I'm greatly concerned that the federal government would eliminate the role, but I would also like to know what the other parties have been doing to further scientific research and education in Canada. It is fine to cast Harper as a villain for this move, but have the other parties really been any better about this? I can only assume that the federal Liberals were serious about science when they created the position, but again has Dion, Layton or Duceppe supported this position during their time as leaders?

Pete H - I don't mind you quoting me without acknowledgement, but I wish you had read on. It's unfair to Dr. Carty to suggest that he was in any way partisan.

The debate should be on whether Dr. Carty's role can now adequately be performed by the STIC. Jason M. has some reasonable concerns. I agree with him that the committee seems lean towards science in industry, rather than pure research.

To follow your line of thinking, I might point out that one Liberal appointee has been replaced by eighteen Conservative appointees, two of which are MPs. If I did that, I would be questioning their objectivity. I have no reason as yet to do that.

Does this represent a move toward adopting intelligent design as a national view from the Prime Minister's office.
As Mr. MacDonald's article points out, science can be refuted only by science. Even then we are open to research against aspartame being sponsored by big sugar companies, or any number of "studies" that show that nuclear energy is the way to go, or "clean coal". Information is power.

Dinosaurs may not roam the Earth but they sure do roam in Ottawa...

too funny

all u tree huggers make me laugh, science has not the answers to the problems of today, just as it has been wrong in the past,

oh, right,,, they weren't ever wrong before, they just twisted it around to make it look tht way.

get a life, and a job, this PM is the best we have had in 100 yrs, and I cant wait to see a majority next time around..

God help us! Harper sure isn't.We have got to have an election and get that Bush-loving,corporation toady out of office before he totally destroys our country.
Lets get behind the Green Party ; wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone trying to save our earth instead of polluting it? And I'm talking political polluton as well as environmental.
Bob, can you get other scientists together somehow and really put some pressure on this government to reverse this decision. You guys have clout!Surely there is a sane ear somewhere that will listen to reason!

The cold snap we are experiencing is not evidence that global warming isn't happening.

Global Warming 101 – the remedial course - one more time for those who haven’t been paying attention.

The average temperature rise of the planet that is the global warming concern is only a few degrees, and yes, that is a huge change with significant consequences.

The increased energy in the atmosphere will produce more vigorous atmospheric events, like stronger, but not necessarily more, hurricanes (a side note – though this year’s hurricane season did not seriously affect the US it did have two category 5 hurricanes make landfall, and the cyclones, which are hurricanes in the Pacific, have been particularly vicious this year).

One result of global warming could be cold weather reaching deeper into the states more frequently.

Global warming does not mean the end of winter. (However, this does not excuse the increased per-capita CO2 emissions of Canada since 1987 when the global warming concern was finally recognised internationally).

It is disturbing, that the science advisor to the PM has been dismissed. It is to be hoped that they aren't following the examole of the Bush administration who have interfered with scientuific findings, such that a list of some of America's best and most renowned, signed a letter of protest to the Oval Office last year. The most significant interference with science at all levels has been conservative religion.From the earliest years ogf the AIDS epidemic , when they fiercely opposed public funding for HIV , to the present insistence on no-scientists on decision making panels ayt the CDC in Atlanta , the disdain for science has been self evident.

With each firing our national identity as Canadians undergoes the death of a thousand cuts. Do you remember candidate Harper's reply when asked if he loved this country?
To those conservative apologists in this thread, I wish to utter something rude but I won't. Instead come election time I will work diligently for the defeat of these repugnican shills.

Good job Steve. Do us all a favor and get rid of teaching evolution in schools too. Maybe after you can teach us the rain dance to appease the global warming gods.

I mean really, who needs science when you have right-wing nut-wing ideologies to lead you to the magical kingdom. Thanks Stevie for screwing us back to the stone age.

This news saddens and disturbs me. The NSA provides a crucial service to the people of Canada by ensuring that politicians, most of whom have little or no scientific training, have an independent and truthful summary of research findings. Without this summary, politicians will be unable to make educated decisions on matters that will impact the lives of future generations. As we damage our environment, the science becomes more complex, the stakes get higher, and poorly-informed decisions become more disastrous. This is a resource that politicians are foolish to trash.

Did anyone out there really expect anything different from our PM Harper than replacing an actual scientist with a technologist? After all, the man is an "economist" by training and previous experience, and his every action is guided by that dismal science. Penny wise and pound foolish.

When you can't follow the logic behind a particular decision, remember that old adage and just "Show me the money!!" That justifies any course of action as far as Harper is concerned.

The focus of comments so far seems to depend on the commenter's opinion of climate change. Let's keep things in perspective and try to name one part of a our modern lives that aren't directly affected by the scientific advances of the last century. The supposed contentiousness of climate change aside, Canada's present and future prosperity depend on our ability to be not just consumers of the rest of the world's science, but active participants in the process. For example, science is as much a part of how we extract, process and sell oil as it is about the negative environmental effects of doing so. What appears to be happening is that the uncomfortable parts of scientific achievement are being singled out and labeled science, while the myriad of benefits we enjoy is taken for granted. In short, dismissing a scientific adviser with no view of replacing him/her seems the first step towards a second round of being on the losing end of a colonial relationship - selling our resources and buying what the enlightened world invents. The message that science is non-partisan seems to always get lost. The dismissal should be viewed as equally tragic for right and left wing fanatics alike.

thank you bob, for always being so easy to listen to and for such truthful words when it comes to the bufoon we have for a prime minister. i am deeply saddened by the simple minded string of bad ideas always being unleashed by this robotic man. let us all hope for positive change in the next few months!! regards, andrew

Dear Bob,
I was also greatly disappointed to here of the selling of the Canada Space Arm. My question is where does all the money go? Mismanagement of funds , war, greed. There are so many great minds that are being stifled because many uniformed ignornant people are making uneducated decisions in office. Power tripping and making dictator style rulings without any interest or consideration on what is best for Canada as a whole is what is one of the major problems with our political system today. We as citizens must learn to ask more questions, read more books , turn off the televisions and educate ourselves. There are so many hidden truths. Unfortunately many of those in "the know" , think we should be left out. For example Nasa's secret space program. Billions of hard working people's tax dollars are spent , with very little feedback on what is really going on in space. It is time for disclosure. We pay for these projects and we deserve the truth, not more closed doors and secrecy. And Bob , I have been a fan of yours for years. You are one of the few remaining fine bastions of journalistic integrity left out there. Thank you. Keep our the good work!
Raven

I have to love the Albertan/American wanna be's that are Harper global warming doubting disciples. Spouting off the temperature of Planet Calgary and Edmonton, and citing the current temperature...read carefully...g-l-o-b-a-l warming, meaning the planet is warming, which means that the poles are melting and that weather everywhere is getting more extreme. This means that it gets colder in the winter and hotter in the summer everywhere, but then if you don't read about the science behind the problem, you remain ignorant of the concept.

That's why it doesn't matter if everyone is involved all at once, it just matters that every little bit helps. The state of California, along with 15 other states, is trying to exceed the mandate of the US Federal government and suing them for permission. If California alone was permitted to do what they wanted, they would have a greater impact than all of Canada by themselves. I applaud the premier of Alberta for at least trying to do something in a neolithic political and industrial climate that is fighting him every step of the way.

The Conservative plan is like saying that if everyone doesn't get to the lifeboats at the same time, there is no point in abandoning ship...

Without going into all of the obvious shortcomings that this move by Stevey boy illuminates, look at it this way, 'why would any politically savey leader of a minority government waste any time listening to opinions or theories that may form the basis of a long term strategy to help point Canada in a direction that may over time benefit not only ourselves but the planet when taking the pulse of the electorate hourly (towards calling an election)is so much more juicy. If Stevey would spend as much time leading as he does polling, the polling would probably not be necessary.

Wow, this forum is new to me but it appears the majority of folks seem stuck in the view that Harper is a pawn of the yanks.
Me, I'm Canadian first, I despise our politicians for their collective failure to lead CANADA in a wide range of issues but instead I watch an expotential growth in childish parliamentary hissy fits and mock anger. I can't tell the sincere folks from the actors, I'm left disappointed and outraged that good legislation ides a slow death waiting to be passed because there is no collective will to take CANADA forward.
Enough whining Canadians, its pathetic to hear the moaners and groaners out there who do nothing more than trash whatever the Gov't says....We need to find a true Canadian political leader who isn't a lawyer or the best person that Quebec might favor.
But the Liberals have not served CANADA well in matters that have any military connotation . Coderre??? gack, Dion? guffaw

It would seem obvious that a Prime Minister who feels qualified to make his own decisions about nuclear safety would see no need to recieve briefings on scientific matters. There is a real need for a more 'open' approach in government, not a more 'closed' approach.

Has anyone read the Donner Prize, Runner Up book by Canadians Christopher Essex and Ross McKitrick called "Taken By Storm' (revised 2007 edition)? That temperature graph made famous by AlGoar does not factor in turbulence (rain, snow, wind, tornadoes). The time for debate is never over, although the CBC would have you think so.

This is just another example of "father knows best". No facts please it might confuse me.

I love the hypocrisy in how politicians never want to hear from Scientists. I often wonder what they do when they’re sick. Do they take pills or might they need an ex-ray? When they go to work do they drive cars? If they’re hungry, do they microwave their food?

Pfft! Science. What does Science have to do with anything!?

Interesting story. Another science story is unfolding. This one is about a scientist who claimed that he could determine how children died. He testified in court and sent people to prison. Trouble is that this scientist got it wrong. Badly.

And there was Josef Mengele and his team of scientists who, with generous support of his government, performed numerous medical experiments on live, unwilling humans.

And then there is the question as to who should run our government. Should we ,the people, be able to choose who makes our laws and enforces them, or should that be left to experts? And, if our elected representatives need expert advice, who do they turn to and how do they go about collecting such advice? And who's advice do they rely upon and use to make policy and laws?

This is not about George Bush or any other foreigner. This is about us, Canadians, and how and who we choose to run our own country. And we need to recognize that every one, even scientists, has his or her own point of view, that we all have our own ideas, and that not every one of our "good ideas" is going to be taken up by government. Our government has not abandoned science, it has elimninated one position. You and I, through our taxes, will still be spending vast sums on science and scientists in fields ranging from health to space to weather to fisheries and agriculture and so much more.

So cool down the rhetoric, and go check the facts (or would that be too much like science.)

Most of the posts here seem to imply that scientists are disinterested seekers after truth. That is only true up to a point.

Scientists work either in industry, or the civil service, or the universities. In the first two cases they are employees with a main interest in keeping their jobs. In the universities they supposedly have academic freedom but they also have a definite interest in getting or holding onto research grants, which originate from the government or industry. In none of these cases can the scientists be said to be disinterested.

I read lots of global warming propaganda on both sides of the coin in this feed. One thing that is not mentioned is that the planet has had these cooling/warming trends before. Some left catastrophes, others a minor shift in conditions. The one thing that we are not doing in all this is finding ways to adapt to the change. All we hear is that we have to pay to stop it. The industrial revolution is over 100 years old and the rate of CO2 has increased from 350 to 380 PPM. Well, there are geologic records that state that CO2 levels have been 10 times that amount on this planet( 1,000,000 years ago). The propaganda that we are fed and the fear that it is generating states that if we do not pay $1000s per person to reduce greenhouse gases, the icecaps will melt and we will all die. Well, it would take a long time for the ice to melt, thousands of years perhaps. After all, it still snows in the northern and southern climes, effectively re-issuing the ice that melts during the year. Extreme weather has always been a part of our system. Has it been warmer in Edmonton on January 29? Sure it has. Has it been colder? Of course. There are many influences upon our climate and ecosystem that have to be considered rather than just one element like CO2. Solar activity is another major contributor and it is well documented how a solar flare can knock out our power grids. Can it happen again? Of, course it can. Astroscientists have also found that our solar system is warming up with Mars, Jupiter and Saturn having increased in temperature. Why wouldn't the Earth as well. Is it because us humans are here that we can stop this? Think again. The key to this feed is the elimination of the science advisor and information on all aspects of science will no longer be part of the decision making process. Instead, corporate influence will drive policy even more than it has to the demise of the planet. Ask yourself, just how much arsenic would you consider is safe to dump? Corporations have been finding very convenient ways to dump toxins in our system for years, some of them end up as products on our shelves. Think, if a product is so reactive as to remove baked on anything in seconds, what do you think it contains, baking soda? Think again. The big picture is nobody is looking at the big picture. Follow the money.

To all those wondering whether the functions of the Office of the National Science Advisor will be assumed by the new Science, Technology and Innovation Council (STIC), consider this.
STIC provides advice to the Industry minister on issues selected by the government. It does so on a confidential basis. The issues STIC provides advice about are confidential. It's advice to the Industry minister is confidential. The public will never know what STIC is advising on. It's a closed loop process in which the public is not engaged.

I find it endlessly amusing to read the heated opinions of commenters to news stories.

The fact is that Harper does not do something like this and clearly and explicitlt explain how the same functionality will be maintained afterwards. He has eliminated a direct scientific advisor and instead will receive his scientific advise from who? Has it been stated and is it impartial or will he just search wikipedia and quasi-science blogs like most of those anti-environmentalists that are posting here?

I haven't an issue with him removing an appointment position if there is a reasonable solution in place but removing it just because it is an 'appointment position' is a terrible idea.

Why do so many people attach so much meaning to catch phrases and jargon?

I've said it before; we are entering the Misinformation Age and this step by Harper is an excellent enabler of that at the highest level.

Who needs a science advisor? Harper has shown that he knows more about nuclear reactors than the nuclear safety people.

How do you run a nuclear reactor safely without proper backup power to the cooling pumps? Have parliament declare it to be OK!

I'm just waiting for the "Creationism and Intelligent Design Advisor" post to be filled. Requirements: Must be white, male, a pastor from an independent evangelical church in a town with a population of fewer than 1000 people; must believe the bible was written in English.

Sorry, I don't have much time but feel obliged to comment. What a shameful conservative government we have. Canada used to be a leader in the international affairs and a significant number of countries wanted to follow our lead. Now... What a shameful example to the rest of the world. Now, Canada is looked upon like a little errogant American and being laughed at (and only the PM and his circle are to blame). Forget about the PM's ear, he is as arrogant and dismissive as possible. What a shame for the country that really had, and still has, so much to offer and lead by example. Thanks.

Science Advisory position was a nothing. Paul Martin announced it, said it
would report to him and then never met with Arthur Carty. And Carty never
took initiative. When they moved the reporting line to PCO and then to
Industry, he should have resigned to make a point...but didn't. These kind
of positions were a fad - the UK created one so everyone else had to do the
same. No line authority and no resources = no impact.
Dinosaurs had nothing to do with it.

To Mel in Edmonton

You attempt to refute man's contribution to global warming, yet rail agianst man's poisoning of the environment? Do you still buy disposable batteries and use plastic bags at the grocery store? You make good points regarding the solar system as a whole, yet as a race, we are still accelerating the process on this planet, and potentially making it worse which is the point the Al Gore was trying to make that got lose in the Hollywood-ization of it all.

The science behind global warming does not dispute that the planet has warmed and cooled over the years, mor does it hide the effects of that warming and cooling on the planet. It does admit hoever, that it was wrong in its estimate of how long the current melt rate of the poles would take, and that it satellite imagery shows it is occuring 100's of times faster than expected.

Nor does the science think that we can stop it from happening again. The concept is that we need to reduce and stabilize our contribution to the problem. And I agree with you the propoganda is unbelieveable, starting with the propoganda from the Bush and Harper governments that it will cost the economies billions of dollars to do anything about it. Unfortunately for us, their approaches with do just that, whereas the European approaches, such as those taken in Sweden and Germany have saved money for the everyday taxpayer, and had positive effects on their economies.

Part of the North American problem is the false hope of biofuels and the destruction that the cultivation of these fuel crops wreak on the environment as carbon sink rich forest is destroyed in order to grow corn and grain that is not used for food. I would encourage anyone to read the book, Heat, by George Monbiot, who actually advocates nuclear and clean coal as parts of the solution to the problem, rather than biofuels.

Why are all the climate deniers from Alberta? And folks "liberal" is not a pejorative outside of the US. I am proud to be a liberal. You have to be quite the wing-nut to rail gainst the "liberal" biais in the national media of a western-liberal democracy.

How clever! By denying knowledge of global warming, numerous
bio-hazards and technology in general, viola! they no longer exist. A
true master stroke by an environmental genius.
Come on Harperites, show a little leadership and get your collective
heads out of the sand.

It is with great shame that I read the news of the Science Advisor's office closure; this closure not only affects Canada's role as a leader in science and technology, but also points to all the problems within our current government... How can the PM presume to understand the scientific matters (many of which are very pressing)of todays world without the input of a qualified, non-partisan scientist to point him and his government in the right direction and to explain the many intricacies of modern science?
How can he assign a science portfolio to a Minister who has limited (if any) exposure to modern science and technology and expect them to do an adequate job in deciding which matters are most important to us, not only from the point of view of Canadians, but on a world stage as well..?
It is quite frightening to bear witness to what is happening in our government today.. We can only hope for a spring election and positive change by way of re-instating this invaluable position and in appointing a new PM who not only understands the importance of modern science from a global point of view, but who is also aware of his own limitations to understanding where the matters of science are concerned and is aware of the need for a non-partisan and non-political third party scientist to read between the political lines and provide him with viable solutions and courses of action which benefit us as Canadians and many people world-wide who depend on Canada's input and assistance.

About the "Science, Technology and Innovation Council"? Won't it cost a whole bunch more money?

Not to undermine any of the work Dr.Alper has done in the past but according the government website Dr. Alper also sits on a number of corporate boards.

Potential conflict of interests? The way I see it the council will be good for bringing corporate interests to the forefront.

Also, I'd like to point out to all you people bashing CBC for being too 'liberal'. The fact that they're posting your opinions on this board says they're not.

The folks who are in denial about global warming?? You're verticals aren't you?

Thank you Bob for posting this article.

In response to Walter S, no location...
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT...

Yes, Paul Martin appointed Arthur Carty as National Science Advisor, but this position was non-partisan and was created with the acceptance and backing of ALL PARTIES (CONSERVATIVES INCLUDED).
Paul Martin and Dr. Carty DID meet on a regular basis (weekly) to discuss how Canada could remain at the forefront of the scientific and technological stage world-wide and how we could distinguish ourselves as a country that is not only interested in the technological advancement of our own country, but in the advancement of the global village, as well...
It was only upon the election of Stephen Harper that things started to change; it was Harper who never once met with Dr. Carty and who refused his many invitations to discuss the pressing issues of the day.
To say Carty never took any initiative is an absolute fallacy; were it not for him many international relations, such as those with India and China for technological 'sharing' would never have proceeded. His interest in fostering international scientific relations had brought Canada to a new level, supporting scientific discovery abroad and nurturing relations between Canadian Scientists and those from other countries..
Dr. Carty has made Canada proud by serving the people and not the politics; he is a brilliant scientist who has always had technological and scientific advancement at the forefront of his mind; never have politics or money swayed his decisions nor has he ever let politics sway his views of what is and what is not important to Canada's scientific community... perhaps that self-respect and the respect he has for science is what led to his office's demise.
What a shame. And what a loss for Canada and those countries which depend on our relationships for furthering and nurturing their own technological advancement. So much for the Global Village and Canada's role in helping its advancement.
Does anyone else feel like we're moving backwards instead of forwards?

This is the normal "shoot the messenger approach " Mr. Harper appears to favour. If he doesn't like what he is hearing (whether he knows anything about the subject or not). He just gets rid of the annoyance. No room for discussion here.

Thanks Bob, we need to know what this dictator is doing in secret. Sure didn't hear anything about this on "regular" news broadcasts. If enough people get the picture, maybe they will get out and vote next time.

In light of the way in which this government handled the Chalk River issue, the dismissal of Dr. Arthur Carty as science advisor comes as no surprise. One would have assumed that informed decisions were being made on the behalf of the people of this country, but this government has demonstrated again that such assumptions are indeed dangerous.

Thank God we have a Prime Minister who is intelligent and has the guts to to stand up to the "sky is falling mentality" so prevalent in our society these days. Stephen Harper is saving us from ourselves; specifically all the guilt and fear we seem to so easily succumb to, as well as believing every so-called climate "expert". I'll bet NOT ONE PERSON WHO BELIEVES ALL THE GLOBAL WARMING RHETORIC IN THE MEDIA HAS READ ANY OF THE SCIENCE ARTICLES WRITTEN BY CLIMATOLOGISTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GLOBAL WARMING DEBATE - RIGHT? NOT ONE. I have.
There are no "experts" on Earth's climate, because it is very complex, and has only been studied for a few decades. The causes of the climate changes over the past millions of years are not known, but there are a number of theories. To jump to the conclusion that the Earth is warming because of human activity, when it has been doing this for millions of years is perplexing to me. But it seems to be human nature to blame ourselves and be easily swayed by "experts". "Experts" who have invested heavily ecomically and financially in Global Warming Theory as being correct. Use your common sense. Except for the 10 years or so that we experienced unusually warm winters recently, the climate around here has been quite normal. The last 3 winters have been totally normal, not "mild and wet" as predicted, and last summer was cooler than average. The only area that seems to be warming right now is the Arctic, not the globe, and for reasons unknown right now.
Stop believing everything you hear in the media and start reading on both sides of the debate.

H. Birtwistle

I guess the PM feeels it is un-necessary to receive advise from anyone more qualified than him. This must make him a very lonely and mis-informed man.

To Todd, global warming as a man-made condition is a false claim. From what our politicians are claiming, we the people are the sole perpetrators of this crime and must be held to pay. This is what I am refuting. I do not condone poisoning of the air, soil or water. I do use rechargeable batteries when batteries are needed and use recycled shopping bags and recycle more than I throw out, since you asked.

The main issue with the science is that we do not have enough imperical information to make claims one way or another. Since CO2 has been measured definitively for 20 years, how can one state that it is worse than 40 years ago, how about 60 years ago during WW2 and the war industry. We have implemented and used satellite technology for about 10 to 15 years. Is this long enough to generate a pattern or cycle? Even the sun has longer cycles than we have had ways to measure the effects of those cycles. To base our entire civilization on such little information would be a foolish and disastrous venture. Basing the entire science using a pattern from 3 years of data on an upward trend will forever ignore the downward trend that may occur 5 years from now. Look to the hype and fear brought about when the ozone layer was disappearing and we were all going to fry. We have no idea what climate change will bring. Are we even sure it will be a disaster? My biggest concern with the science of climate change is that there seems to be a political and corporate overtone to the science rather than the science of it.

Try this one. Compact fluorescent bulbs save electricity which reduces the amount of CO2 produced. Now from my understanding, these bulbs have to be left on all the time. How is that more efficient than me having an incandescent on for 10 minutes? As well, they contain mercury so they should not be thrown in the garbage as they are now. This is not the answer because forcing the population to buy them only ensures the corporation makes it profit margin at the same time as creating an environmental disaster with the mercury that will be forever in our landfills. How is this an improvement? If power consumption is an issue, why are all appliances made that have electronics that run 7x24? Why are there 1000W stereos? Why are there 300 HP vehicles? All these are corporate initiatives that ensure more consumption, not less. Even the hybrid cars are a fallacy. The battery in them has a larger environmental footprint than a combustion engine. I do agree with you on the biofuel thing too, this again is bad science used to generate an industry that will be government enforced to ensure consumption and profit margins.

Do humans have an impact on the world? Yes, however using global warming as the only issue to address is wrong. The US spews spent uranium at alarming rates in the war zones it created yet this is not reported. Major corporations are fined huge amounts for environmental disasters but they don't pay or clean up the mess. Governments and the UN stall and stall on issues that will help people, yet will institute measures in moments for a political or corporate agenda. Even the billions we spent on tamiflu has now been wasted because it is not effective on the latest flu virus and degrades after 5 years. What was the outcome, more money to a corporation from us the taxpayer.

Like I said in my earlier post. It is a big picture thing and climate change is just a facet. Follow the money and you will find the agenda. For some reason, there are a few very wealthy people that need even more money and you apparently have some of it, so do I. They want it and will get it whether you are forced to buy their products or they get governments to tax it out of you. Want to really make a difference, just stop paying.

Do you honestly belvieve there is no Politics in Science? How naive can you get!

"The Science is Finished" Suzuki screams about global warming.

Scientists pointing out the Sun, Mars, etc. are all warmer are screamed down by the "Scientific Herd".

Al Gore lies through his teeth. Nobel prize time.

A scientist shuts down the reactor endangering people on an off chance of a problem.

Anti Harper agenda? No, Surely not a manufactured crises for scientists and greens looking for funding...

For our nation to progress, we need to accept that we will stumble and sometimes err along the path of discovery. The greatest minds in recent history have,and continue to, risk failure and use it as a way to refine and propel future innovation.

We need science, as well as collaboration with experts in many fields, to broaden our knowledge in many areas.

If you are always the smartest person in the room eventually you stagnate. A whiff of such a consequence is starting to taint Ottawa but without a scientist to forewarn.....

@H. Birtwistle:

The post was National Science Advisor, not National Climate Change Advisor.

Mr. Mcdonald,

It seems that this Prime Minister (Harper) wants to be a one man show. He dismissess whomever he pleases for whatever reason. There is no sense or rhyme coming form this man.

We are lucky that harper is in a minority. Can you imagine the damage this man would do if he were in a majority?

He is an economist, who will argue that he is a "economic scientist". We had an economist Premier here in Saskatchewan (Devine). His science brought this province to its knees and nearly bankrupt all of us.

Harper is a one man show surrounded by puppets and tag-alongs. My hope is that he will be a one minority term PM.

Mr. McDonald, Harper will fire and get rid of all individuals that challenge or do not see the way "He says things are" after all he is a "seer" sorry a "scientist himself".

He is A HUGE embarassment to Canada.

Paul Degen

I'm a US citizen, and have thought long about emigrating to Canada, as US politics have driven us farther from critical thinking and sensible solutions. I follow politics in both nations, and I can tell you that should you continue to let your country move in the direction that Stephen Harper is taking it, you will soon look like the buffoons who live just to your south. Take Care! I love Canada, and I thank you for the CBC!

Maybe Dr. Carty and his office were deleted because of being ineffective. I did not know we had a National Science Advisor. I am looking at a Dec. 30 newspaper article by Preston Manning who also apparently did not know, where he laments our systemic government weakness "Because our Parliament has no scientist general (or officer of Parliament like the Auditor General) or parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (as in Great Britain)". Chalk River and countless lesser situations show we clearly need government agencies that can update mandates and terms of reference among disparate technologies. Bridging the typical narrow focus of science "experts" is left to ideology and politics, sensationalized by an eager but under-educated media. We are all frustrated and disappointed by the results, at all levels of government.

This story and the responses herein warranted a look at background. In May 2007 the "Science, Technology and Innovation Council" was created to fulfill functions such as that of Dr. Carty but with a far broader scope and capability. Dr. Carty had advised the government last year of his intention to retire as of March 2008. We live in a technological age such that no one man could have all the answers. The new Council addresses the new reality. So much for all the indignant political condemnation.

Mel from Edmonton.

Thank-you for being concerned about the environment and taking decent action.

I agree that the best action is to stop consuming anything you really don’t need to consume.

I also agree that corporations are very good at taking advantage of any opportunity. But they take advantage of every opportunity so noting that some of them appear to be taking advantage of global warming is not proof that it is a conspiracy.

I also agree that the biggest problem we have is the cheaters. They operate at every level of our society and their lack of concern for how their actions affect others create all of the need for new legislation, regulation, enforcement, courts, etc. But claiming the research scientists are the cheaters in the global warming case, rather than the people who stand to lose their free-ride to more if penalties are imposed on those who do not cut back, is a bit of a stretch.

Compact fluorescents don’t need to be left on all the time.

Compact fluorescents do contain a small amount of mercury, but a lot less than regular fluorescent tubes, and it is just prudent to dispose of them as hazardous waste, just like AA batteries, paints, solvents, motor oil, unused medicines, household cleaners, and a host of other everyday items.

You need better information regarding CO2 research. CO2 in the atmosphere has been scientifically measured at the top of a mountain in Hawaii for the past 40 years. Bubbles trapped in glacier ice layers have been used to determine the concentration of CO2 and other compounds in the atmosphere and they can indicate useful information back over thousands of years, on the order of hundreds of thousands of years.

I am disappointed that you believe the damage to the Ozone layer was a hoax. It’s a good thing the science hadn’t indicated CO2 emissions were the likely cause because that would have guaranteed nothing significant would have been done about it. The problem with CO2 is that so many people are benefiting so much from the emissions.

The nay-sayers to the scientific evidence of harm due to human activity simply question the science indicating the harm. But they are like the politician who attacks the character of their opponent rather than promoting their integrity and credibility.

There is no scientific proof that we can emit all the CO2 we want without consequence. All the science indicates human activities that affect CO2 in the atmosphere are a problem.

Not Rational. Operating on Faith instead.

I agree there is bias related to science. It is primarily action by cheaters. The cheaters selectively use research or theories rather than evaluating all the information available and they demand different burdens of proof.

Some of the worst cases I am aware of are the few big-pharma companies who apparently only reported the results of the favourable research regarding the safety of their new, and potentially highly profitable, products.

Those who choose to believe that the warming of other planets proves human activity is not to blame for our planet’s warming do not appear to demand the same burden of proof for their favoured theory as they do for the theory they do not like.

Let me impose their approach back on them. The earth has a magnetic field so it is different so the warming of other planets is irrelevant. Show me the conclusive science indicating without a doubt that my theory regarding your theory is wrong.

It just so happens that a climate researcher has taken some time to look into the solar thing. I read about it and it appears the solar influence does not come close to explaining the warming of the earth, and the magnetic field deflecting solar rays does have an influence. (I think it was a link on the BBC website…I won’t waste my time finding it for you, I’ll just let you know I read it and leave it for you to prove me wrong, conclusively)

This, and a lot of other information, including every other unproven claim, is part of the information that needs to be include in a review of the science regarding global warming, and has been included in the evaluation by the IPCC (its in the thousands of pages of background information. Again I won’t tell you where it is I’ll just claim it is there and leave it for you to prove me wrong, conclusively).

An unbiased evaluator will attribute merit to information, including claims or theories without extensive rigorous research and reporting, that is proportionate to the magnitude and validity of its supporting research. They will not attribute value to claims based on their personal preference.

In response to Mr Kelly
My understanding is that Dr Carty only took retirement after the government's decision to close his office. So yes, a look at background and correct information is warranted...and indignant political condemnation, as you called it, is in order.

This is disgusting but directly in line with previous actions and attitudes from this government. Let's remember that Steven Harper did (does?) not "believe" in climate change. The same Steven Harper, who was not convinced by the results of the safe injection site in Vancouver, claimed that they needed more research.... and proceeded to cut the budget.

1: It is useless to argue with someone who has
already made up his/her mind about anything.

2: By definition, a political conservative believes in maintaining the status quo (or in returning to the good old days), resents the intervention of government (or public) agencies into "private" affairs, except for the advancement of private "corporate" affairs.

3: Therefore, scientifically speaking, it is quite useless to argue with a Conservative.

FYI, the ozone hole was measured and found to be growing annually, allowing more and more UV radiation from the sun to adversely affect the world. Science figured out, despite naysayers, that CFC gases were responsible. We replaced them (mainly in air conditioners and refrigerators). The ozone hole has been repairing itself steadily since then.

CO2 amounts have fluctuated over millenia in the past, but never as quickly as since the start of the Industrial Revolution. We can solve the problem of CO2 the same way we solved the problem of too many CFCs, replacing CO2 emissions from the internal combustion engine and other sources before the damage caused by them is irreversible.

We have always affected the world we live in, mostly adversely. Just ask the Dodo, the Passenger Pigeon, and other eliminated species, or the American Bison (who used to cover the North American plains with day-long migrating herds) and other species in similar danger from our presence.

But science, if we let it, can show us the way to at least modify the adverse effects of our influence on the world. Unfortunately, not even science can persuade Conservatives that there are some things more important than economics.

Hi Mel,

Good reply, and thanks to Ken from Calgary for jumping in, providing good points that force me to issue a blanket apology to Albertans for earlier abuse which I hurled after watching Question Period on CPAC. (A bad habit.)

With two infant children in diapers, I also have switched to rechargeables, cloth grocery bags, and put one green garbage bag in the landfill every two weeks. I think that we are arguing the same point here, and perhaps we just are not agreeing on the terminology. We're poisoning the planet, and whether the result is global warming, the destruction of our water and soil, the extinction of species, the root of the problem is the same. Corporations that feel that they can do what they want, how they want, when they want are buying politicians to make it happen. I agree with you that finding alternatives to paying is a way to fight, but reducing your carbon footprint is another. By recycling, reducing what you put in the landfill, you are doing that.

CFL bulbs do not have to be left on all the time, but I did do a little research to make sure I was not just talking off the cuff. Looking up 'CFL' on Wikipedia and getting past the football reference, under the Lifespan heading, it does reference that the lifespan of a bulb is reduced if they are only used for a 'few minutes at a time'. The site references the US Energy Star program as stating that leaving them on for 15 minutes 'mitigates this problem'.

And Ken is correct, the measuring of CO2 in the atmosphere goes back much further than 20 years, and as a matter of fact, it goes back for hundreds of thousands of years, through the use of ice cores take from the Arctic and Antarctica. Measuring atmospheric particles in this manner is an accepted practice and has been for over 50 years, and in the past 25 years they have been able to get down several miles.

Mel, I agree with you on the spent uranium that the US is expending worldwide. My wife would tell you that I agree with the US candidate Ron Paul who says that 'if you want to slow global warming, you should stop global warring'. I will even point out what Al Gore did not mention, which is the wildly unpopular correlation that since the development of the massive ordinance weapons, the hydrogen bomb in WWII and the jet engine, CO2 levels on the planet have gone out of control. The upward trend is upward since 1955, not the past 3 or 5 years, and that is what people don't seem to understand on the whole. Until 1955 the numbers were slightly skewed, but today when you watch CNN during an American holiday season and see them display the number of airplanes in the air, it makes me want to puke. It wasn't until 10 years ago however, that people started to look around and realize that maybe what Al Gore and others like him have been saying since the mid '80s was true. There was a previous poster on the page that mentioned as well that there were many Canadian scientists on the project with Gore as well, so I think heaping the praise on him is often overdone, but then he's the face and the name that gets the attention.

Sorry to jump on you, as you seem to 'in' and not 'in the way' so to speak, for the big picture. This discussion also doesn’t even touch the fact that we are only talking about CO2, and not the multitude of other global warming gases that are a problem.

Well, I didn't vote for Harper--but apparently the Majority of Canadians did.

I forgot to mention, and this is for all.

Recycle your Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs at Home Depot. In recent weeks they announced in their flyers that they will take them back at no charge and ensure that the mercury is disposed of properly at a recycling station.

(No, I don't work there.)

Thanks to Bob MacDonald for his article on the recent dismissal of the Prime Minister's Science Advisor. I agree with Bob, that science-based decision making is critical for wise political leadership. It's dangerous for Canada's Prime Minister to treat science in such a trivial way, when there are so many important decisions facing us that require sound scientific understanding. I urge Stephen Harper to restore the position, and allow the scientist who fills it, to report directly to the Prime Minister and Cabinet.

Yours Truly,

Kelly Pearce
Hope, BC

I am scandalized by this decision. What is this government about? Where is its vision? The government should at the very least provide us with a viable alternative to the science advisor.It Mr. Harper thinks he can marganlize science and remain conpetitive he is pipe dreaming.Not long ago, Japan took one of its leading scientists as advisor with very broad powers.I have nothing but respect and admiration for Dr.Carty and I am pity this government for not tapping this valuable resource. Wake up and smell the coffee Stephen.

"An Inconvenient Truth" that might be the title of an Al Gore movie but Scott Brison seemed to be indicating Stephen Harper was hiding something during Question period on Wednesday. Why didn't Scott Brison just declare what Harper was hiding? Maybe it was at his party's own peril? Will we ever know the reason Arthur Carty was let go? Is the answer that we have many secret national science advisors or maybe Harper was hiding science from Carty but that would seem strange since he was a Martin appointment. I had never "heard" of Carty before he was fired.

Who needs a science adviser anyway? We already have a nuclear scientist as our Minister of Natural Resources and a renowned archealogist as our Minister of Public Safety. Their next project - the teaching of "Intellegent" Design at school near you.

I made my first comment a week ago. It is somewhere above.

Since, I have seen comments from those whose lack of education and lack of knowledge of the sciences only show how badly the education system has devolved.

I noticed a couple of references to civil servants in various of the forums. I can tell you by experience I know that there are all too few people working on behalf of the people of Canada with mandates that are not supported by funding or resources. Being a civil servant is an honour and a privilege, an opportunity to help other Canadians, in return for a small portion of the tax dollars we all must contribute to the system.

Do you heap invictive on police, fire or EMS staff? Hospital staff? Civil gov't? Flavour of the month who you dedide you don't like? The Military? The RCMP? Your school board?

Those are the people that contribute to this country, each in their own way.

The scientists that work for the government serve their country. If you don't understand that, I can only pity your lack of cognisance of what makes a community, a province, a country.

The fact that the govenment has chosen not only to remove a senior advisor to the government, but the whole of the office and support systems - only tells me that some of the people who came from a narrow point of view should have stayed there and not bothered those of who can see the forest, depite the trees.

I have read many of the posts, skimmed many, managed not to get nauseous at some, laughed at others.

But in a brief and unscientific summation of what I have read: the majority are in argreement with the jointly reached conclusion that this particular decision was, to be as polite as I can, idiotic. Should you prefer the vernacular: STUPID

Many of us are agreed on that. To the varying degrees of detail that many have expressed - I will give you a hint: nobody but those who have faith in the scientific system will ever read them - and then I wonder.

To the knuckle draggers who know next to nothing except that they are allowed to voice an opinion, I have a word of advice. Do not take all your information from the media, try though they might, they can't know it all. Do your own research, not just from the papers, the internet - find out where the data is that supports your opinion. Then I will listen to you and discuss our agreements or disagreements over certain issues. But not until you have done the basic research. Much of the commentary I saw refers to topics only referenced in the media. The media has a big part to play in dissemination of information to us all, but as many know, they cannot know everything. Thus it falls to those who have some insight into how governing bodies need be advised. Some are scientists, some businessman, some lawyers, some union reps . . . and, yes, just us, the average voter who supports their MP, or MPP or civic representative.

For those that say "a liberal / conservative / ndp /pq appointment - what would you like me to do? Add Franco? Noreaga? Bush? to that? It is not the appointment that is in dispute, or who made it.

If those of you who have no knowledge of the integrety of how scientists hold themselves, irrespective of where or how the position was created continue to comment, I will refer you to another scientist whose postion was created by a government now in disrepute.

Wernher von Braun - does the name ring any bells with any? Please consider his appointment was created by a government long since defeated who had horrific policies in many areas.

However, Herr von Braun was rehabilitaed by the US government, and led NASA to manned flights, and moon landings. I do not believe for a second he supported the government that created his position, I believe that he was a scientist to the end of his days with only the idea of advancing humanity, through science.

And if you don't know your history of the number of scientists who remained absolutely and completely disconnected from whomever appointed them - look to the history books, look to the Internet, but LOOK!

You might learn something.

Arguing over the details overshadows the greater concern. We are not well led. In the past, the same can be said. But in defence of our system, no single government has caused overthrow of our system. Certain decisions, I can never agree with, the current issue is one of those. That the minutae of government continues, and we all lead reasonable lives tells me one thing. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. To say I disagree with a high percentage of the current group of - what do they call themselves? a government? Sorry got confused there. But sometimes they get the little things correct. Now, if only they would call an election . . . I might even have to admit I agreed with something they did

Wow! Obviously the PM has been told that Science does not matter in his government. I guess the truth borne about by good science is a liability for the Harper government. It appears that Prime Minister Harper and his cronies would either side step issues such as "global warming" or "environmental sustainability" and do the dance that follows the public opinion polls or have the voice of Washingron DC form its policies on these matters. This appears to be another way for the Canadian government to allow the Americans to chip away at Canadian sovereignty. We need a new captain at the helm of this ship we call Canada as it is obvious that this ship is listing and about to capsize into the depths of the American political sea.

It seems clear to me that the science adviser role is necessary and relevant. The PM is busy governing and to be an effective governor- the PM office needs to be aware of all technological issues. The current political trend of security focused ambitions is directly connected to science. This week alone, Iran has opened a new spaceport facility and has launched its own rocket into space. They plan on building their own satellites and launching their own payloads. Why can't we commit to accomplishing the same thing? I doubt the PM is being advised on the scientific ramifications of this important development.

Sure he got rid of this scientist, but he is bringing in people who are better. I know that concept is hard for liberals to take. Maybe the same thing can happen at the CBC?

It's true, dinosaurs do roam the earth at the same time as man.

While the article states that the current government has done away with their science advisor, I am curious to know whether they have an alternate system to gain the scientific insight which is undeniably necessary for responsible decision making. Maybe they found the current system to be inefficient and are pursuing alternatives. Maybe an outside panel could be consulted when needed. I haven't really been following this but I would be disappointed if the scientific voice of reason was dismissed without an alternative.

It is naive to expect intellectual honesty from neo-conservatives.In their moral universe, you're with them or against them, and they despise nothing more than rational thought.But the popularity of this movement is having a corrosive effect on sane governance.As another contributor pointed out - Where are the protests from Canada's scientific community?The answer can be found in the politicization of the scientific community going back 30 years. Where only "tame" scientists get promoted to high administrative positions. Thus it is left to Bob MacDonald and others like him to shed light on this enveloping darkness. Keep up the good work.

Maybe Arthur told them that evolution theory makes sense;George would then have his friend Steve fire Arthur.

Why are we talking to Bob the converted..
shouldn't we be blasting Harper ears.

email the gov. the PM ,all parties, they all all want to know. Sending thousands of emails can make a difference.

Right on the money, Bob. BTW, I've been a fan since Wonderstruck!! Loved that show! You should do a show, (if you haven't already) on the Z.E.N.N. car. Now there is a situation that completely boggles the mind! Hopefully we can turn this ship around, or at least steer it away from the abyss!

Steven Harper is a threat to all rational and intelligent people, reagardless of your political slant. His government offends on every level and now this confirms once again what I expected, the man is dangerous. If you feel this decision is wrong then inform others and vote for anyone but the conservative government in the next election. Tell the world how backward this governemnt is, appeal to anyone who trusts science and research and intelligence, to vote against this man. Vote green, liberal, NDP or Bloc, but just get him out.

"I'll bet NOT ONE PERSON WHO BELIEVES ALL THE GLOBAL WARMING RHETORIC IN THE MEDIA HAS READ ANY OF THE SCIENCE ARTICLES WRITTEN BY CLIMATOLOGISTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GLOBAL WARMING DEBATE - RIGHT? NOT ONE. I have."

I will take that bet. How much? $100? Let's make in interesting, $10,000. I could use $10K.

try
realclimate.org

for starters, there's a bunch of actual climatologists who read and rebut the junk science from the anti-anthropogenic climate change crowd.

Here's a free piece of advice sir or ma'am, when you start with a presumption of ignorance on the part of your adversaries, you're likely to end up with egg on your face.

Don't make a big deal out of this. there is an election brewing. If they hear that people are upset they will hide their true beliefs. Now is not the time for engaging this government, but to honestly reflect on what they have done while in power and why? If we were to be with this current government for four more years then I would cry outrage and fight, but on the verge of an election tell them all the science we need is located in Genesis or Lividicus or Timothy or the Magician Nephew - my personal favourite.

Sheila Clark and a few others have politicized this issue, implying that Harper correctly fired Dr. Carty and replaced him with a 'better' panel. Dr. Carty is a scientist, the panel is composed of industry technologists. Sheila suggests he is a 'liberal' and they are 'conservatives' and must therefore be 'better,' at giving scientific advice.

The British journal, Nature, disagrees, lamenting the poor state of Canadian science support since Harper's government came to power, focusing on his and his government's avoidance of scientific events because of political bias.

Thia is a shortsighted decision that is not in Canadian's interests but it is sure in Harper's best interests. Do you think he's just a wee bit closed minded? Our government is proving that they had good reason to take the word progressive out of their name. Now if only they would prove they have good reason.

It seem to me that science is about discovery of things we don't yet understand.

That concept doesn't fit well with anyone who already knows it all.

We will soon have the chance to vote him out. I hope everyone who has commented on this, the latest Harper government nonsense will be there to cast a ballot. Now I understand how the Americans must feel about having such an idiot for a leader. Harper makes Canada look just as foolish as the US on the international stage. Anyone every play Civilization? Notice how your civilization doesn't do very well if you don't listen to your science advisor?

I have persevered to the end - have read all the comments and would like to thank Bob Mcdonald for the article, even though the terrible sinking, hopeless feeling has returned with the revelation of the closure of the office of the National Science Advisor Dr. Arthur Carty. I also would like to thank Nathalie of Orleans and Jason M. for their contributions which offered clarity about Dr. Carty's appointment, qualifications and contributions while in the position, and information concerning the potential focus of the newly appointed Science, Technology and Innovation Council.
My concern is that this newly appointed council will allow the focus to move from reducing CO2 emissions and, instead, devise science (the effects of which are mostly untested) that will attempt to sequester the CO2 emissions; as well it will prescribe remedies for rather than attempting to prevent the outcomes of climate change.

I am terrified for the future if such scientific sacrificing continues.

The article says, "Science, in its purest form, seeks the truth." Later it says, "All science involves uncertainties - that’s the way the system works."

Has anyone bothered to define what "science" means? Webster's Dictionary says "science" means, "Knowledge; knowledge of principles and causes; ascertained truth of facts."

Science is not opinion; it is knowledge of facts. Hypothesis are opinions based on facts; hypothesis are not science.

From where I sit at middle-age, I'd say the vast amount of what we call "science" today is not science at all; it is opinion based on circumstancial or specious or capricious evidence. Every bit as bad as politics.

And if you think that the original article written here is not political in nature, look at it again. The article is about "science" but it is full of emotion and political manoeuvring, very clearly showing and arguing for the author's political bias.

Is Harper's move to remove the Science Advisor a move fueled by his Christian fundamentalist past? I hope that Canada does not turn into an evolution/creationist debate raged country like the USA where science is more of a political topic rather than a reasoned approach to solutions.

I feel the amercians in there normal why of talking would have turn to a joint venture of the aero and space fight but yet none of that was ever seen . its funny in 1953 the aero a great achieviement for the canadain people and within one talk to one president turn into nasa 1958 if only both country could work togther we could do anything toghter but only if we tryed two great countries but dont see anything, whats wrong with thattttttt