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First debate produces few fireworks

Last Updated: Friday, December 16, 2005 | 8:48 AM ET

The heads of the four main parties tackled questions from Canadian voters on issues like the sponsorship scandal, same-sex marriage and the GST on Thursday night in the first leaders' debate, a two-hour gabfest that was much tamer than last year's forums.

The leaders are all laying low on Friday, preparing for the second debate, tonight in English.

The French-language debate in Vancouver was divided into four categories: Government ethics, social policy, economy and Canadian unity.

NDP Leader Jack Layton, (left to right) Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, Prime Minister Paul Martin and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe chat during photo-op. (CP Photo)
NDP Leader Jack Layton, (left to right) Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, Prime Minister Paul Martin and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe chat during photo-op. (CP Photo)

This political contest was different than those in the past, including in the June 2004 election. Panels of journalists no longer posed the questions.

Instead, the leaders responded to videotaped questions from everyday Canadians, with the moderator authorized to ask followup questions if necessary. There were 10,000 submissions for the debate.

The first question was directed at the opposition leaders, who were put on the spot about the cost of forcing an election Jan. 23 instead of waiting until the spring.

Sponsorship scandal

The question prompted them to raise the issue of the federal sponsorship scandal.

The Conservatives' Stephen Harper said the election was needed because it was impossible to support a government that lacks the moral authority to lead following the revelations of the Gomery report on the sponsorship scandal.

Gilles Duceppe of the Bloc Québécois said the sponsorship scandal is "an incontestable issue," with the NDP's Jack Layton adding "that this is a dark time for democracy in Canada."

Liberal Leader Paul Martin rejected the suggestion from one Canadian that his government had washed his hands of the scandal.

"I assure you that no one is washing their hands of this. That is why I set up the Gomery commission," Martin responded.

Harper said the "party that stole money from taxpayers should be punished by the public," adding that his party has proposed a number of electoral reforms to prevent a sponsorship-like scandal in the future.

Keeping promises

When asked whether the leaders would swear on the Bible to keep their promises, none of the leaders answered directly. Pressed by moderator Dominique Poirier, Martin, Harper and Layton responded "absolutely."

"A government that cannot keep its promises is a government that will not have the moral authority to government," Martin said.

Harper said he would keep his promises, fulfilling most of them immediately after the election, and accused the Liberal government of breaking many of their pledges in the past.

Same-sex marriage

Harper was also asked about same-sex marriage, specifically how he would he react if his children announced they were homosexual.

The Tory leader is against same-sex marriage and has said he would vote to bring back the traditional definition of marriage. But he said those who already are married would continue to be recognized as legally wed.

"It's a parent's duty to always love their children. I love my children and I always will."

But Martin said Harper would need to invoke the notwithstanding clause to override the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and take away the right to marry from gays and lesbians.

Harper said he would never use the notwithstanding clause on that issue.

Duceppe said the matter is settled and that what Harper is proposing would create "a two-tier system."

Homeless strategy

In a question about the leaders' strategy regarding the homeless, Martin blamed the Bloc for voting against a proposal to allocate $1.6 billion for housing.

But Layton shot back at Martin for cutting funding in that area years ago, and accused the Liberal leader and Harper for being more interested in cutting taxes for big business.

Harper defended the idea of tax cuts, saying they will provide jobs for people.

GST

The leaders were also asked about removing the GST on essential products but keeping it on luxury items. The question stemmed from Harper's plan to lower the GST by two percentage points to five per cent.

Martin said it's more efficient to cut personal taxes on the middle class. Layton said more attention should be put into social programs.

Duceppe agreed the GST should be eliminated on certain goods like children-related items and books. But Harper said it would be too expensive to cut the tax on some items and not others.

Last year's debates were criticized for the cross-chatter and interruptions among the leaders, the result of each candidate's microphone being kept on at the same time.

For this debate, leaders responded, one at a time, to each question. As one leader spoke, the microphones for the other three were cut off.

Fiscal imbalance

Martin was asked to explain why the federal government has billions of dollars in surpluses yet most of the provinces find it difficult to make ends meet.

The Liberal leader said the government used the surpluses to pay down the debt and boasted that he signed an agreement with the provinces to receive $41 billion in health care and more money in equalization payments. He pointed out that Quebec will receive this year and next year $3.7 billion more than it received before.

Harper accused Martin of dodging the question, saying there's a fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and the other levels of government.

Duceppe said all the opposition parties and and all the provinces recognize there is a fiscal imbalance except for the "21 Liberal members from Quebec sitting in Ottawa. And they're the ones who created it."

He slammed the Liberals for underestimating the amount of surpluses they have at the end of the fiscal cycle.

"One year they said it was $1.9 billion. Actually it was $9.1 billion. I call that financial dyslexia."

Layton said the fiscal imbalance has caused big problems with the provinces and municipalities. He said the surpluses should be going toward social programs.

National Unity

The leaders also focused on Quebec during the debate, the first of four leading up to the election.

"You want to divide Quebec families but it won't happen," Martin said to Duceppe, his main adversary in the province.

Martin said the Bloc only wants to cause political instability in Ottawa and that the party's only goal is to bring about separatism.

"So [Duceppe] is not interested in regional development, in health care. The only thing that interests the Bloc is the whole issue of separation."

But Duceppe denied that if the Bloc wins in Quebec, it means that Quebecers are in favour of sovereignty.

"I would find it a bit funny that [Martin] would go and negotiate sovereignty with [Quebec Premier] Jean Charest if the Bloc wins the election in Quebec."

Duceppe also rejected that his party was there to put "sand in the works in Ottawa", pointing out that his party has supported more than 80 per cent of Liberal legislation.

"When you spread those kind of lies, you lose the confidence of Canadians," Duceppe said.

Martin and the Liberals trail the Bloc badly in the province. Martin said that while the Liberals' main adversary in most of Canada is the Conservative party, it is the Bloc in Quebec. Duceppe is banking on the debate to boost his soaring popularity even more.

On Friday evening, the leaders will debate in English, also in Vancouver, and it will be streamed on CBC.ca.

CBC.ca will also provide instant analysis to accompany the streaming video.

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