Another case made for no-touch icing

All I can say is: Thank God for Don Cherry! I am not sure if the game ever had or will ever have a better advocate. He's played, coached, owned, lived and breathed hockey for longer than many of our current NHL'ers have been alive. I don't agree with every thing Don says but in my experience (at 40 years old), he's very rarely wrong when it comes to serious issues.

As far as I'm concerned, the entire hockey world owes Don a very large debt of gratitude.

I have known Kurtis Foster ever since he played for the Peterborough Petes. No one loves the game more then him. He trains 365 days a year from staying fit to what he eats. He gives back to every comunitee he has ever played in. Now his career might be over and for what??????? It is time to change the rule, no one eles need be hurt over this useless rule. It will make the game better and safer, and isn't that what rules are there for.

I think NHL management is selling us all short when they mandate rules like this that promote violent play. I hate watching regular season games because of the goon element. Hockey can be elegant, fast, thrilling, a wonderful game...WITHOUT the need to see guys smack each other into the boards and look tough.

We have seen the consequences, both to pro players and the kids, of encouraging them to be tough, physical players, then being horrified when guys go over the edge and hurt someone. That is setting the players up. This rule just proves that management thinks we are all knuckle draggers with a taste for vicarious rage. Mr. Cherry is right on the money. Reform icing rules, and that's just a start.

I have begun a facebook group- NHL Fans Supporting No Touch Icing.
We are hoping to get enough support and petition the league.Please sign up!

Hockey, when properly played, is a full-contact, fast-moving game of mutiple skills and precision balance. Accidents and injuries happen.

It took a tragic fatality(Bless your memory, Bill) to change goalpost mounts and headgear rules in the NHL. After several players were brain-damaged enough in the 90's, rules were created to minimalize contact with a person's head. This is a long-term and possibly career-ending injury that holds ramifications for post-sports life, and hopefully will lead towards changing the rules on this type of incident.

IN the mean time, every aspect of this play was within the rules and "common play" of the game. The injury is a tragic accident, but it IS AN ACCIDENT.

The circumstances that led to this injury could easily have been prevented with a simple No-Touch-Icing rule.

This rule should have been changed in the 1980's, when players started being stupid enough to crash the boards to beat an icing call. Prior to full body armour, they were more reluctant to do so.

Instead, one fine young man finds his health and future in jeopardy and another finds his career unfairly tarnished.

This issue seriously needs to be addressed over the NHL's summer meetings, if we can find someone to champion the topic there. Without someone who cares on the INSIDE of the meetings, we as fans are just p***ing in the wind.

I'll apologize for Don in that sometimes his passion clouds his knack for presentation or decorum. He loves the game, and all those who play it. In absolute outrage he swung at everyone close to the incident, and we've all done that(then regretted it). Perhaps he'll man up (as usual) and admit that next week.

The troops ARE being mentioned far too often. Not that we want you to stop, Don, rather....

Bring Them All Back Home! Safe, and soon!

Bless them all for making the best of the lousy job they've been stuck with, and doing us all proud.

And remember... The best whines always come from Grapes!

I don't see any reason to keep it in the game. Anyone keep stats on how many times the icing team actually gets to the puck first, and what comes of it afterwards?

good coment on the hit don. your right no touch is the way to go.keep up the good work,your the man

Mitchell put his hands up on Foster's back as a natural reaction to stopping himself. If you notice carefully he did not push him he simply laid his hands there. The reason why Foster flew in the boards is because he did not have enough space (with the boards rigth in front of him and Mitchell right behind him) to stop himself. He was going at top speed! You're yelling at the wrong person grapes! The criminal in here is not Mitchell. Even Foster himself is more criminal that Mitchell by flying top speed. Anyways, the criminal is the league by wanting to stay with touch icing because it's more entertaining. Is it really entertaining watching someone being caried off on a stretcher that could have potentiolly died? Touch icing is out of place in hockey.

And I noticed in satelite hotstove in the second intermission they said instead they should have an imagenary line at the faceoff dots. And if the defender passes over it first its icing. If the attacker passes over it first it's not icing;it's still in play. THEREFORE THEY CONTINUE RACING FOR IT AND SOMEONE GETS INJURED? Can someone tell me how does that make sense?????????

It is very obvious from the film that Mitchell pushes Foster from behind at the very last instant. That is disregard for human life. It does not matter whether he intended to hurt Foster, that is not the argument. Mitchell is deserving of both interference and check from behind penalties. Yes, icing is an important part of the game but not at all costs. There are many good suggestions here in these discussions that could be instituted to resolve this issue.

Jennifer from sj is right..... there's nothing to add or comment on... she has said it all..

Ok, just wondering if there are any actual statistics on the number of injuries per icing call? Just trying to bring in a few facts here.
I mean, from what I understand (and have seen) the number of icing calls has dropped dramatically from even a few years ago - probably from the fact of being penalized with no line change.
But even if there are say, at least a half dozen icing calls a game (there's probably more), that makes over 8000 icings calls per season (if you throw in a few playoff games).
How many injuries happen compared to other risky behaviour in the game?
PS: If grapes has been beating this drum for 10 years (as Don said), and we know that there were probably a dozen icings/game before the rule change, then he's had well over 100,000 chances to have his point proven. Doesn't sound like a such great guru to me.

Icing is a part of the game that I always thought should be stick only after the puck, and a little discretion on the part of the referee " VERY LITTLE "

It does make no sense to have it, it might come into 1 play in 10 games but I like it! I have to admit it, it's exciting and it keeps players honest.
However I do see the bad side of it and there is a case to scrap it. I just think it's too European and might as well but Tutu's and dancing slippers on as well.

Personally, I like the excitement of the race for the puck and there are too many whistles already. They are big boys, who play a dangerous game. There are risks and there always will be. In response to comment of a superstar getting hurt in a race for an iced puck; how often do you see a superstar put themselves in that kind of vulnerable postion? Typically, they don't because they have too much on the line.
Instead of no-touch icing, I would rather see more serious penalties for the physical contact that causes the crash/injury. Call them attempt to injure majors with a game misconduct and a full review.

If touch icing were removed from the game,it would increase player safety and it would have a lesser effect on long standing player records, than by other rule changes we have seen recently. I agree with Don that the touch icing rule should go.

How stupid is the head of the NHL????? Well based on the fact they have yet to come out and say no-touch icing should be fast set to pass a vote by the BoD for next season, it's obvious they are not concerned about player safety. There are no excuses for not putting in no-touch icing! Don time to become the NHL Commmissioner from your Coach's Corner chair!

I like the hybrid rule. It would work and leave plenty of room to stop so as to avoid an injury.

Charlie Hockey has it bang-on regarding hits from behind and the effect it has within Minor Hockey, not to mention all the other crap that is allowed in the NHL only.
The only sport on the world where the rules are different at the pro level - why is that?
My guess is that it's all about keeping the U.S. fans and $$ coming in

The league management has much to answer for in mandating a high level of physical violence in the game...denying the implementation of no touch icing is only one example. I don't believe that most fans watch hockey for the hits and fights. And a lot of fans don't watch regular season hockey AT ALL because the cheap shots and violent play are so off-putting. Hockey can be, should be, an elegant, fast, thrilling contest with no body contact at all. NHL management is selling us all, and the players, short. I hope they wake up and get rid of the goon element.

Grapes your right, bad hit not to sure he did it on purpose, your the best Grapes keep it up!

I don't agree with every thing Cherry rants about but I do agree with him on this issue.
If a team is going to shoot it down the ice then they should be penalized and not have an opportunity to drill a defenseman from behind into the boards.
I suggest the NHL also call icings of teams that are short-handed. Why is the icing call removed when short-handed? It's an unfair advantage for the penalized team! I want to see more potent powerplays not 200ft. puck dumps by the short-handed squad.

Hey ScottyK, I did watch the play and it was a vicious hit. Yes, they were skating fast but why did Torrey gave Kurtis one hell of a shove prior to getting to the boards?

What did Torrey think was going to happen? That Kurtis wouldn't lose his balance and collide heavily?! It was plain stupid and uncalled for and Torrey should be suspended for bone-headed play.

Perhaps someone needs to break their neck and became a quadriplegic before the NHL reconsiders this rule?

I feel that no touch icing should be implemented. I have kids in minor hockey and the games that they play are no touch icing. It does not take away from the game. It actually adds more skills to the game; ie to get the puck out of your zone and not ice it and allow for line changes and keep the play going takes more skills than just shooting it down. Al the players now have come up through systems and leagues whrere no touch icing has been the norm, and jumping to a faster league with touch icing is a change in itself. Just make it no touch and be done. No judgement calls or the other changes with icing I have been hearing about. Just make the change and the playes will adjust.

The thing with two more lines that Hunt thought of is just stupid it makes no sense and it would just be another thing that the linesman would have to deal with not only to mention that the coaches would gripe about. I say leave it how it is. Hockey is a dangerous sport, its a man's sport and all the players know that. If you're not comfortable with that then I suggest finding a new sport.

Monday March 24, 2008

Send "ICING" to the ARCHIVES

Nothing disrupts the flow of the game more than a “Stoppage of play”.

It’s time the NHL eliminated the ‘icing the puck’ rule.

The notion that the offending team is actually being ‘penalized’, for icing the puck, by having a stoppage in play (allowing players to rest, especially during T.V. Timeouts), followed by a face-off (50-50 % chance to regain possession) in their zone, is debatable at best.

Having the goalie (Get rid of that ridicules, trapezoid on ice, rule), or another player, quickly fire that long up ice pass is more difficult for them to contend with.
And, more exciting for the fans!

Banishing the icing rule would eliminate those horrific races toward the end boards to see who can ‘touch’ the puck first.

And more importantly, reduce the risk of players falling, or being pushed, into them.

The major difference between the ‘dump & chase’, i.e. gaining the red line, and the potential ‘icing the puck’ call, is in how the players approach the puck along the boards, both mentally and physically.

Note: Play the game, and you will understand.

“Let’s take the icing off the ice, and put it on ice, for good, eh.”

* P.S. I love ya Grapes !!!

Captain Hockey

Get rid of it. Grapes has it right, too many guys are hurt for sake of a stupid rule. Appreciate the tribute to the fallen troops Grapes, but it's happening all too often.

I saw you in Pierson on my way to Bosnia in the early 90's, you sent some stuff to us for Christmas. I'll always appreciate what you do for the Troops. Whenever we're away from home and HNIC comes on, everyone comes to attention when the CC music flashes up. Thanks.

The NHL cares nothing about the safety of thier employees. The only thing that matters is the tough guy image.

If you look at the helmet issue you realize that as an emplyer the NHL cares dick all about the safety of the people who draw a paycheque. Can you imagine any other worksite in Canada (or the US) where the employee and the employer agree that proper PPE is not required or can be worn in an unsafe manner(I.e) loose chinstraps etc.)

I had to wear safety boots for years,. I would have rather worn my sneakers but the choice was not mine or my boss's.
The NHL will continue this insane no touch icing until someone is killed than they will be forced to change.

I agree with Grapes, but the league is run by the puppets of Bettman, who have never played the game. Just like the comment from ScottyK from the US. Clearly you never played the game and don't realize that when going full speed towards the boards the wrong push and/or hit from an opponent can send you off balance into the boards. As is what happened in this play. Watch it again you idiot and see how he was pushed from behind and sent off balance. Go back to duck hunting with Chainey and leave the rules of our game to us Canadians!

Don...I love ya and I agree that touch icing HAS TO GO.....but I agree somewhat with Kim. I think you were over the line is saying that this kid MEANT to hurt him. He meant to make the play, not hurt him. Yes he looked at him before the puck because he is his check and the way the rules are right now if he isn't charging in there to either get the puck or lay on the body, he'll be skating his whole career in the minors. I think it's time to stop blaming the players and start blaming those who are really responsible....the GM's, owners, New York and Toronto. Until the no-minds in New York and Toronto receive the orders from owners and GM's......they won't do a thing and it WILL be a damn shame WHEN somebody gets paralyzed or killed. It's not an if...it's DEFINITELY a WHEN.

If you think Torrey Mitchell meant to hurt him, you're an idiot. He was pretty much crying in the penalty box, and the only reason they called a penalty was out of obligation because Foster was hurt. Mitchell is not a dirty player, and that was an accident. He never meant to hurt him.

Don't besmirch a great young star because of your desire to get rid of touch icing. Your reckless comments may end up doing more damage than Torrey's "dirty" hit.

I was troubled by the comments about Mr. Mitchell on your program. You are an institution in Canada. With that position, you should reserve personal attacks when it is deserving. The young man you have decided is criminal has done nothing but work his butt off for the season. He comes to every game playing hard and gets no fame outside the 20k plus avid Sharks fans in the Bay Area. You decide his mistake and miscalculation was done intentionally and capriciously. Even when slowed down there is not evidence of malice or intent to injure. He puts his hands up in a split second to block or stop or out of instinct - but given the duo were at the wall a millisecond later, to determine that anything shows intent to injure is nonsense. In your attack you then go on to berate him for trying to apologize or check Mr. Foster after they collided. There is nothing in his behavior there or previously to this incident that would show he would fein concern. In fact if you looked at film of his face while in the penalty box during the 25 minutes it took for the EMTs to stabilize Mr. Foster's leg, you would know he was quite upset. I was at the game and hada seat of right above the spot of the collision. I saw it happen and saw Torrey's reaction and the reaction of all the Sharks. I also have seen Torrey play all season as a season ticket holder. Finally you go on to say how a good Canadian like Mr. Foster has been injured. Would it have been okay if he was American? Torrey Mitchell, like Mr. Foster, is a Canadian. You owe Torrey an apology - just that simple. You are absolutely correct about the no-touch icing rule but your diatribe and personal attack on Torrey does nothing for your position on the no-touch icing. I find it to be classless and honestly clouds the issue. Learn about the young man, both personally and professionally, prior to doing a very public character assassination.

Grapes,

Although I agree that touch icing should be removed from the game, the real problem with the Mitchell/Foster incident is that the NHL allows illegal hits regularly. Mitchell hits Foster from behind launching him into the boards. That is illegal on 2 counts. Hitting from behind, and interference because neither player has possesion of the puck. How do you expect kids to learn not to hit from behind when it happens freely in every NHL game. Also, you blamed Patrice Bergeron for the hit from behind in which he was injured. You said that he should not have gone head first into the boards, therefore he was responsible for his injury. This time you blame Mitchell when Foster clearly did not angle to the boards like you thought Bergeron should have done. I always respect your opinion, but I think that you owe Bergeron an apology. I don't remember who it was on the Flyers that hit him. I don't think it was an icing touch either, but it was still a hit from behind that happened to get a penalty. I just think that the Foster hit was similar and too many illegal hits go unpenalized and that leads to events that injure.

Hunt,
Why would they make an extra zone just for icings? Also most injuries occur in the split second edge area... and the USHL has a hybrid system where the linesman makes a judgement call at the hashmarks that if the defending player has the advantage or the two players are neck and neck, they call the play down, if the attacking player has the lead, they wave the icing and play continues. Kim I've seen the play dozens of times, and you can see that his arms move in a pushing manner and that is when Kurtis fell and slid into the boards. Grapes, perfect comment on Torrey. I could not agree more.

Disagree with Cherry's assessment. Mitchell goes hard for the puck all the time and this time the push was a rookie mistake. I'd bet that I've seen far more Sharks games this year than Grapes, and Mitchell is no cheap shot artist. It was a dumb play, but there was no malicious intent. Had it been Darcy Tucker or any other Leaf doing the pushing, Grapes would've just focused on the real issue, which is the lack of a no-touch icing rule. I commend Grapes for continuing to push for the no-touch rule (along with neck guards), but he's out of line in claiming that Mitchell was out to hurt Foster.

there is definitely an inherited danger when it comes to the big boys facing each other in an all out foot race for the puck. Fastest guys wins. It is exciting. Perhaps we could paint another line about 30 feet or so from the end boards and call it the finish line. we let the race go until the puck crosses that line. then the race is over. This will give the players plenty of time to gear down and still keep these small exciting battles as part of the game. I am certain there are many other good ideas out there and they all have one thing in common, they are better than the current rule. thank you

Yet another change NHL hockey needs, the no-touch icing. This could have been avoided. Surprised it doesn't happen more. Mitchell more guility than innocent on that play. Clearly went for his body and not the puck.

Also: Let's Go Pens!!!

Alternative proposal re icing: Place a new red line same width as the goal line & parallel to it running thru the end face off red dots, rink wide. This creates a new zone.Take this scenario..both defending & attacking players racing for the puck only this time if both players are in the "zone" at the same time, even by a skate touching either line, the linesman blows it down... face off goes back.If either player gets thru the "zone" before an opposing player enters the "zone", that player would have that extra split second to safely play the puck & avoid a serious situation such as the incident this past wk. Additionally,an exciting race for the puck still exists.A player failing to stop & colloding with the opposing player beyond the "zone", after the whistle would receive a penalty.

Unfortunately we will likely have to witness a broken neck coupled with a fatality before this ridiculous "exciting part" of hockey is ended. Listen to Grapes! Bring no-touch icing in!!

"Vicious hit"? Oh please. Watch the replay. The "vicious hit" resulted in a minor penalty and no suspension. Two fast skaters heading for the boards at high speed, a collision results with a serious injury. Unfortunate, but nothing vicious about it.

Grapes, you went over the line saying Torrey ment to hurt Kurtis. I've watched every game the kid has played w/ the Sharks and he's not a cheap shot. I know this is a topic that's near and dear to your heart but he's not a bad guy. I see it as both are forced to go all out because of this dangerious rule or be challanged of not "giving it thier all" then forced to make a spit second move so not to hurt a fellow player. You said he was looking at him and planning to hurt him, that's a load of crap and a cheap shot. At least Mitchell called on Foster with his regrets that the play went the way it did, while you sit in jugement in you pajamas watching it on at TV.

For the amount of times that a play is saved compared to the number of players that go down with serious and possible career ending injuries, this makes no sense.

What will it take to stop this - have a star player have their career cut short? This is preventable - when will the league finally step up on this?