Stoughton's Spin

Maybe the Briar has a good idea in that Northern Ontario SHOULD BE a province. Many millions of people who live along the 401 corridor have never been North of Barrie.

I'd be really upset if I was a curler in Nunavut and had no chance to even compete for a spot.

Since the sarcasm of my last post was obviously lost on some of you. I am not suggesting that because we have more money we should have more teams at the brier!! I was pointing out the ridiculous notion that because Ontario is bigger or more populated that they should have 2 teams. As for the argument that N.Ont has different reps every year meaning the curling is better... that is laughable at best! The N.Ont team this year would not even qualify for the AB playdowns. Not trying to be mean but the TRUTH hurts sometimes.

Spare me the grief of Albertans crying that it's unfair that Ontario has two teams. Albertans always find something to whine about. Given the fact that the N.On playdowns produces new representatives in the Briar shows the strength of the region not weakness. Rarely does the same team win two years in a row, which shows the health of the sport in the region compared to others that are constantly represented by the same team year after year. I doubt any team at the briar thinks a game against N.On is an easy draw either.
As for a Team Canada I think it's as silly as guaranteeing the Stanley Cup Champs a place in the playoffs the following year. Earning your place at the Briar via the playdown process means only the teams that deserve to be there are, making the Briar that much more special to win; even more so than the world's since half of the teams from Europe barely need to play to represent their country.
The Briar is the best curling can be, there is no need to change a good thing.

I totally disagree with having Team Canada at the brier. Every team qualifies and they deserve to be there. It took too many years to get Collen Jones out of the Scott as Team Canada. Don't ruin the Brier

Funny stuff.......lets really get serious and start giving Alberta a minimum of two spots as they have the dominante teams in the land.

As far as the oil running out, envy is an ugly quality.

After reading some of the comments here I just have to say that I don't think money for any province is an issue, don't most of the teams have some sort of sponsorship? And as for the dissadvantage of some not playing on areana Ice?? Are they not curlers!

I think having the last years winner at the the brier is a great idea, but I don't want to sacrifice northern ontario to do it. There has been some great games involving rinks from thunder bay timmins and the sault. Al Hackner is still one of my faves.

N. Ont is not a province, and therefore shouldn't be recognized as such at the brier. Team Canada arguments aside.

I agree with some other posters, having regional representation encourages talent in the martimes. If we were to start switching the low finishers with tour leaders, curlers form the maritimes would have no incentive to go and practice, as they would know they can't get to the brier anwyays, because they don't have a strong history of finishing well there. It's often impossible for these teams to tour, as the tour is strongest in Western Can, and that gets very very pricey.

Team Canada would increase the field, and reward whichever province is strongest at the time. So, if Alberta really is as strong as is believed, Alberta may have two teams many years in a row (even if the championship is switching between Albertan teams). What's best about this is that it rewards the talent...not the number of people in the region or the amount of money the region has.

I am so sick of pandering to Ontario!!!! Hello out there - there is vast travel in other provinces too.
As for the zillion people living in Ontario - well why haven't they won more Briers??? I am sure the 'cream of the crop' must live there.
Let's move on CCA and dump N ONT and add Team Canada.

Why not, as some have suggested here, have the defending champion come back but not as Team Canada but rather, representing his province. However that province could still have its own championship and send 2 teams! That way, if Alberta has the best 2 teams in the country, then they will both be there. We reward the winning province with getting another rep for next year!

Hello....Northern Ontario not included in the Brier ?
Can anyone out there say Al Hackner ?

Other than that issue, you are doing a fine job of reporting Jeff....BUT, I am thinking that you ( and other Prov reps ) are going to have to earn your way back to the big dance by beating the best teams in their respective Provinces.

of coarse N ONT team is rediculous, firstly when has the fan base in ontario been better than any wheat provinces. if you had a northern central and southern alberta team they probly would all finish 123 at the brier.
But lets not forget the brier is funded by amatuers that curl in leagues. Martin, Howard,Burtnik,Simmons do not play in leagues.
Lets not turn the brier into something it is not ment to be, a competion to kill "IE GRAND SLAM, MARTIN BEATS SHAUN ADAMS IN THE MOST BORING CURLING GAME I HAVE EVER WITNESSED IN MY ENTIRE LIFE" lets just get rid of N ONT. and make a qaulifier on the east coast. Maybe that will make them more sharp.

Corby Humby....

So, does that mean that, in twenty years when Alberta has no more oil (and therefore no more money) that they should not be afforded a team at all?

If we let Team Canada into the Brier, they should represent the province they represented the previous year (with no additional team qualifying from that province) thus eliminating one team. Indeed, under this scenario, the teams at this year's Brier would have remained exactly the same, but left a lot of disgruntled Southern Ontario curlers.

Go Hardnen!

how about this the two last place regions do not automacicly send a team to next year's brier. replace one of the teams with a team canada. have the winners of the of the two regions and the the top money earner that did not automaicely qualfiey and top team from the the prevoius canada cup that did not automaily qualifly if all canada cup teams are all readey in the second biggest money earn on tour that is not in all ready will have a spieal the weekend before the brier and the winner gets the last spot in the brier. that way we have the best 12 teams in the nation in the brier

The notion that there is a N. Ont. team (In addition to Ont. team) is archaic and ridiculous. Tradition is great but when there are progressive alternatives that make CANADA's curling championship more competitive they should be acted upon. Why hasn't the CCA made this change?
Understandably this proposal ruffles feathers in Ont. and particularly N. Ont. Curling Associations but the change is overdue. Under this system Ontario (The province not the curling association) would have had two teams this year. I am sure the likes of Corner, Harris, Middaugh etc. wished the change was already in place. It would undoubtedly make the game more marketable and likewise help achieve a certain CCA objective to create exposure and grow the sport.
Last time I checked even the best curlers held regular (For the most part) day jobs. The amount of commitment these teams invest to get to the Brier is enormous. The Brier champ deserves a free ride to the following years Brier. It would serve as a reward to the province that won thus earning the right to send two teams.
Message to CCA board of directors: 'Get on with it'.

The Hearts are the exception here, NOT the Brier. In addition to the Brier, Northern Ontario sends a team to the Junior Men's Championship, the Junior Women's Championship, the Senior Men's Championship, the Senior Women's Championship, and the Mixed Championship.

Northern Ontario has a tradition of not just being at these championships (all the way back to the first Brier in 1927), but doing well and winning them.

I think that the CCA needs to decide to either keep it strictly regional or to expand and include other teams such as those qualifying on the cash circuit. If they decide to keep it at twelve teams, insert Team Canada, then as mentioned in a previous post, use a relegation round to determine the last spot. This will encourage competetion amongst the bottom feeders to improve their game or risk losing their brier spot. Alternatively, expand the event to say 16 teams with regional representation as well as qualifiers from the cash circuit. (Again mentioned in a previous post) Either way encourages more teams to compete in more events to improve their chances of getting to the brier. It's win-win.

Well, I think Alberta should have 3 teams, after all we have all the money in Canada!! See how ridiculous the argument about population or size of your province is?? N. Ontario...sorry goodbye.. Team Canada = better curling... your in. Sorry folks but Ontario is not the centre of the universe.

The reason so few teams from the Maritimes, N. Ontario, or the territories for that matter do not compete on the WCT is purely geographics. It is a far distance and a high cost for teams from the Maritimes to travel to compete in the WCT. Moreover, in case you have not listened to Russ Howard, the problem is the lack of quality resources avaialable to Maritimers. Our clubs have ice that is not up to the same standards as those west of Quebec. This is a general problem with this country. Some places in this country have far more resources i.e. natural resources, a more diverse economy (esentially MONEY). Maritime curlers a not any less able, but they are more restricted.

While there are valid arguments why N.Ont should and shouldn't have a team, I believe they should be there for tradition if nothing else (most sports market themselves based on their traditions).

To me, the Brier without N.Ont would be like the NFL without the Packers.

Jeff's comments are right on the money in many respects. N.Ont is a throwback to what? long travel? Time to ditch that one. The biggest issue he raises here in the fact that some teams play all year on arena ice. This is turning or has turned the brier into a Pro/Am event. The Eastern teams (omit Ont) are losing hope and opportunity of winn ing this unless they join the trek out West to all the spiels. Now the Brier is almost always out in the Golden triangle (alberta,Sak, Man). There is a real danger here of volunteer burnout as well as 2/3rds of the country tuning out.

No way. For as long as I can remember it's always been N. Ontario.

I suppose letting last year's champs return would free up a spot for the winning province to field a new team every year.

Could they not simply add the returning champs team to the pool? It would only mean each team plays one extra game (3 extra draws I suppose) in the round robin. You get the same number of teams making the playoff cut. You get the returning champs, N Ontario keeps their team... everyone is happy.

I think B. Chepesky has a good idea in adding more of the World Curling Teams [who didn't make it as their provincial reps]based on their showing in that tour, and a Team Canada. This would add more quality to the teams already present. I hear the argument re N. Ont., and am not too concerned one way or the other, whether they stay or go; if it amounts to numbers to get a proper pool or pools then I would agree to let them go.

Now I'm starting to understand why Ontario feels they deserve two teams at a national championship. They are "Canada", and the rest of the country is here to service them.

I agree with the idea that stronger teams should be represented in the Brier. After all, the Brier chooses who plays as Team Canada, and team Canada should be the strongest team. But before deciding who should stay and who should go, maybe we should look at previous champions. A quick count from the Brier page tells me that the provinces have won (in descending order):

Manitoba: 26 times
Alberta: 22 times
Sask: 7 times
Ontario: 7 times
N. Ont: 5 times
B.C.: 4 times
Nova Scotia: 3 Times
Quebec: 2 times
Nfld: 1 time

If we used historic example as a guide, then we should combine the Maritimes into one team, stick Nfld & L with Quebec, Add the territories into B.C, and give Alberta 3 teams and Manitoba 4 teams.

Of course, the question is, is it only about strong teams, or is that what the tour is for?

Here's to B Chepesky from Toronto for his "outside of the box" suggestion (16 team Spiel). This is the kind of individual we need on the Board of Directors of the CCA. Lets replace the status quo with positive change and forward thinking, for the love of the game.

Why two teams from Ontario?

The population of Ontario is roughly equal to the combined population of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland + Labrador, PEI, and all three territories.

2 teams suddenly doesn't seem so unfair. Maybe there should be 9 teams from Ontario instead.

What makes Ontario so special? 13 million people may be able to answer that.

The post about regional travel is a good one. It takes three days to drive across this province.

WHY NOT 13 Teams?
I have long been a fan of Team Canada returning [Scotties] and spent a few years wishing for a Ferby-Martin matchup at the Brier. I have great respect for the "Iceman" and did watch "the Shot" live in '85 so I am also partial to NOnt having earned the right to attend.
If todays facilities can accomodate 5 sheets [Hamilton had 6 in '91] then a daily schedule of 3 games in the AM and 5 games in both the afternoon and evening will have all teams playing twice per day. Yes to accomodate the full 78 games you need to have 3 games played either on the last friday AM [Draw #18] OR you could add 1 extra game on Sun Mon and Tues am draw [2 teams would play 3 games on 1 day only].

Totally agree that Northern Ontario should go. Women have only one representative from Ontario and this should also apply to the men. I think Team Canada should be automatically included in the next year's brier. Again the women do it and works extremely well for them. MMMM, women seem to be setting an example here.

To a certain point of conversation, I agree that Team N. Ontario should be removed and even possibly replaced by another team from Alberta. Just think of it..." A north and south team from the province of Alberta". (since most of the talent stems from here??!

The Northern Ontario eligibility question should prompt a full review of the Briar set-up. Here's what I think should be done. (1)Replace N.O. with Team Canada. (2) Add 6 more teams to the Briar - the 6 leading World Tour Teams that didn't make it in through their Provincials. Koe, Middaugh, Stoughton, Ferbey, Adams and McAulay would have been added to the Briar this year. So now you have Alberta-1, AB-2 and AB-3 along with multiple entries from MB, BC and the Maritimes. But what a line-up!(3) Create 2 9-team Pools with a round-robin of 8 games for each team. The top 3 teams in each Pool advance to the playoffs with the top team in each getting a bye to the semis. Now you have the top teams in the country competing in the Briar BUT you have still preserved the Provincial championship format. The strong provinces get to enter more than one team. What could be fairer?

I agree with Team Canada compete in the Brier. This province has two distinct regions but only one team competing as do all other provinces except Ontario. What makes Ontario so special?

True, N ONT is not a province, but instead of a Team Canda lets go with representation by population or the number of curling clubs by geographic area. One team from the maritimes would be more than enough (that would allow Mr. Gushue to keep his team from the Rock). Better yet maybe it is time to make N ONT a province!

yes i agree with the same setup as the ladies, no offence to northern ont. but one team per province is good and a team canada. excellent idea, plus its a bonus for the winning team to get a free ride the following year.

I agree with this one, N.ont is not a province, and fairly enough nunavut qualifies now for the position than n.ont does, at least they are a stand alone area. Bring in a team canada. When Ferby was tearing it up a few years ago, teams in alberta would have loved to have a chance to go to the brier, atleast this way it gives an unknown (as he refers to them) a chance to get to the brier, and earn that experience.

I absolutely agree with Jeff here. First of all, the Team Canada format only serves to make the Brier stronger. Having a Team Canada not only showcases the team that everyone else will be gunning for, but potentially allows those provinces with multiple top teams entry into the Brier. For example, if Kevin Martin wins this year, this would give Alberta another Brier entry for possibly Randy Ferbey or Kevin Koe, two of the top teams in the nation.
It is unfortunate that all of these top teams cannot be at the Brier, but with that being said, this is still a National competition where each province/territory should be represented. Last I checked, "North Ontario" is not an official province, but rather an arbitrary region within Ontario. Although Yukon/NWT, for example, will probably never win a Brier, it is important at a grass-roots/community level that all provinces/territories are represented in order cultivate our nation's young curlers - otherwise we would never have the likes of Brad Gushue.
In conclusion, the creation of Team Canada creates a better field for the Brier, while maintaining the sense of a National competition with the respective official provinces and territories being represented. Although this may come at the cost of North Ontario, I hope my fellow Canadian curlers can understand that this should be done, not in spite of tradition, but in pursuit of progress.

I agree with you drop Northern Ontario team and have a Team Canada, just like the Hearts.

It is great to have a returning defending team.

Well; Team Canada is not a province, nor is it a territory either. When they become a province or territory I say bring them to the game.Northern Ontario isn't a territory, just a mindset; let's wait until they start getting transfer payments. Meanwhile, if we are looking for laughable suggestions, how about Team Florida? I hear there are more than a few Canadians down that way every winter

Before you dismiss N. Ontario, you need to take into account the shear size of the district. Competing teams must travel from Timins to Kenora. I'd say there is a stronger arguement to add N. Ontario to the Scotts then to remove it from the Brier.

Anyway, N.Ont's record last year of 5-6, middle of the pack.

This IS an old arguement that we need to let go. I can't imagine this tournament without the province of Northern Ontario.

Having Northern Ontario at the Brier really dummy downs the tournament. I have always wanted to see Team Canada at the Brier. The last time I checked Northern Ontario isn't a province. I don't see why 1 province deserves 2 teams. It doesn't add up and isn't fair to Quebec and the other larger provinces.

I partially agree with the post. I think it is ridiculous to have a Northern Ontario team. Must Ontario always have all the privileges around this nation?

I would much rather have two teams from Alberta. My gosh! Do they have talent in that province or what? It is sad, for instance, that team Koe, after having played so well at the Canada Cup, can't be at the Brier. Mind you, I have no idea how they did in the provincials.

I agree with Jeff - there should be a Team Canada and NO Team Northern Ontario. Last time I checked the map of Canada Ontario was one province. Let's keep is fair. If I lived in BC I would be asking for a Northern BC team or what about a Northern Alberta team or Northern Saskatchewan. All provinces should be treated fairly and the sooner the CCA deals with this issue the better for the game and the Brier.

Go Team Martin!!!!

Coming from a province with a very deep pool of high caliber curlers, both men and women, I would love to see a returning champion as team Canada. The challenging play downs to get out of Alberta to the Brier were incredible to hear about (as there was not a lot of tv coverage) and it is always exciting to see the top teams like Gushue, Howard, Ferby and Martin, even if some are from the same province, play against each other. Ontario is a very large province, but so is Quebec and if Howard was to repeat as champion then we could see two Ontario teams at the Brier again anyways. If we want to see even more great games there has to be ways for the teams with the highest caliber as possible to be at this tournament and having a team Canada is a way to do that.

I'm in favour of a Team Canada in both men's and women's. I want the best teams competing and if three out of four members of the winning team return , then they should be included.

I've never understood why Ontario deserved two teams at the national championship. Is Northern Ontario any more remote than Northern Quebec, or Northern Manitoba, etc. The success of Al Hackner does nothing to bolster an argument in favour of retaining two Ontario teams. The Team Canada concept has worked well for the women, maybe the men should join the 21st century.

It is time to add team Canada to the brier. Northern Ontario is not a province.

Time to add a Team Canada my thoughts exactly, nothing against Ontario but to make it fair one team from Ontario is enough. The Scott's have an even playing field why not the Brier? There's something about a Team Canada that makes sporting events much more interesting. About the MOOSE we have those swamp donkey's in Saskatchewan also, matter of fact I'm having a moose roast for supper.

I used to think Stoughton was a smart guy, but no Northern Ontario team? Come on now. How many times has PEI won the Brier? The problem with the recent NONT entries to the Brier is that they don't compete enough on the Tour. It is very clear that the Tour teams in this years Brier are lightyears better than the rest of the field. How about if your province/territory doesn't do well in a given period of time, you go to a relegation event like international hockey does.

I regret reading the comments about Northern Ontario losing its spot at the Brier. It is one of the founding members of the Brier establishment. A Canadian Champion is determined by providing regional representation from across Canada. This is done by allowing a regional rep from Northern Ontario. Northern Ontario has faired well against others across Canada and has actually won the Brier a few times. I believe a Kirkland Lake team won the first Northern Ontario Brier. Team Canada concept is a good one but I don't believe it belongs in the Men's game!

Quebec won 2 years ago,they dont play on the tour.major upset? If the tour teams didnt get a free pass to the provincals most of them wouldnt be there.

Al Hackner was a fairly decent representative for Northern Ont. in the eighties I recall. The issue is that team sports throughout the world (Scotties exempted) acknowledge and accept that when a champion for a given calendar year is determined that's it, done, enjoy it while it lasts and then go to work to see if you can repeat. I fail to see the logic in giving a team a free ride to a championship the following year. It continues to puzzle me that the Ladies do it and I've never heard an explanation to support the concept.

Obviously as a Northern Ontarian I completely disagree with a returning team Canada at the Brier. It has been a long standing tradition at the Brier to have N.Ont represented. In fact I would rather see a N.Ont team at the Scotties than see any change whatsoever at the Brier. What is a Brier without the MOOSE!
However, besides that Jeff Stoughton is doing a great job at reporting from the Brier.