Excerpts from a Jan. 4 recording of a 17-minute telephone conversation between pitcher Roger Clemens and Brian McNamee, his former trainer with the Toronto Blue Jays and New York Yankees:
Clemens: I got your e-mail about Brian. [McNamee's son]
McNamee: He's not doing good.
Clemens: I don't like hearing that.
McNamee: No, it's real, man. This is real. Everything else is a joke.
McNamee: It is what it is, and it's not good. And I want it to go away. And I'm with you. I'm in your corner. I don't want this to happen. But I'd also like not to go to jail, too. But it has nothing to do with you. But I would like to sit down with you in person and talk with you.
Clemens: I get home from vacation here and I found out now — I'm just hearing a ton of other things. Just the stuff that I'm reading or hearing. So much of it is untrue that it's just tearing everybody apart.
McNamee: I reached out to you because, I mean, I tried to help as much as I could, as late as I could. And it was too late, I guess, to help. But what it comes down to is the way it affects our kids. They got nothing to do with this. They've got nothing to do with any of this.
McNamee: I'm on a cell phone. And I understand that I don't expect — I can't open up to you the way I want to, and I know you can't. And you know how I feel about you.
Clemens: I don't know who's on our lines or whatever.
McNamee: I got nobody on my line. I don't know.
Clemens: I just want the truth out there, and if I got to go — whatever I'm doing — I just want the truth out there. And like I said, I just can't believe what's being said. We're getting it from all angles. And, you know, I haven't talked to anybody other than my representatives and Randy [Hendricks]. Everybody is just — everybody is just so upset.
McNamee: The pain this is causing you and me and everybody is nonsense. You know, Brian, your kids, my kids, they have nothing to do with this. The truth is the truth. It is what it is.
Clemens: That's why I answered your e-mail when I heard — again, like I said, I just don't know why — I just don't know why you did it? I mean, I just can't — like I said, you know, everybody asks me about you and I tell them I treat you like I treat anybody else in the world. I think you know that. I treated you just like anybody else.
McNamee: No, you treated me better. You treated me like family. From day one I was family to you, and you treated me like that. You know, I'm glad to hear your voice. I just — you know, I don't believe that, you know, it is, whatever. I just — the bottom line is I'm glad to hear your voice. I'm sorry that your family is going through this. And I'll do whatever I can do to help.
Clemens: You just need to come out and tell the truth.
McNamee: I don't have any money. I have nothing. I'm not doing a book deal. I got offered seven figures to go on TV. I didn't do it. I didn't take it. I didn't do anything. All I did was what I thought was right — and I never thought it was right, but I thought that I had no other choice, put it that way. And I think when I spoke with your guys, that I laid it out there. And I was sick. I was in the hospital.
Clemens: I'm just, like I said, I'm numb, my family is numb.
McNamee: I know that. I know that.
Clemens: I mean all the calls we get from the people that we worked with. They're just going crazy. So. They just can't believe what's being said.
McNamee: Like I said, I'll fly out tomorrow to talk to you face to face, whatever you want me to do. What do you want me to do? Tell me what you want me to do.
Clemens: I don't know. I'm just saying …
McNamee: [unintelligible]. You treated me better than anybody.
You treated me — I learned from you how to raise my kids. I learned from you how to raise my kids.
Clemens: I didn't do it, this, you know, all this stuff. And I just, like I said, I'm numb to everything. And we get, you know, Deb is, you know, she's a mess. And I mean, like you said, when it affects Brian, you know, I got Koby in the game, and he's getting, he's getting crushed.
McNamee: Roger, what do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do?
Clemens: Mac, I'm doing a press conference and — on Monday — and …
McNamee: You want me to go? You want me to show up?
Clemens: I'm going to just tell the truth, flat out tell the truth. But it never seems to get behind me. I mean, I had to deal with the [expletive] from the LA Times and alls I got was an apology when they found out that wasn't true. I had to deal with that. And, like I said, I asked you about …
McNamee: That was the greatest thing in the world.
Clemens: The other thing is, I don't know how many months ago it was, I asked you, you know, I didn't know who this cat was in the New York Mets — this guy.
McNamee: I told your guys, man. I told [Jim] Murray, I told him his name. I told Murray.
Clemens: I asked you point blank, I said, do you know who this cat is when we were working. I said there's some rumblings about some guys with the Mets. Do you know who this guy is? You told me no.
McNamee: You know what, I would have told you yes. If you told me, if I remember that, if you told me that, I would have told you yes.
Clemens: I asked you point blank. Randy and them all called me to ask. Said who —
McNamee: I told Jim Murray, I told Jim Murray. I told him. I told him. I sat down with him in Starbucks on the corner where you used to live and I told him the guy's name. And I told him please don't tell Roger yet, but to be careful, but no. If you had asked me, I would have told you that. If you remember, if you remember, I was trying to get with you to talk with you. I was reaching out to you.
Clemens: Brother …
McNamee: I didn't want Kenny around …
Clemens: You were a foot in front of me doing ab work.
McNamee: All right, then, you know what, then I messed up. I should have done. But you know what, if I had remembered that, then I would have told you. I would have told. Like I told — I told Jim Murray his name. I told him to be careful.
Clemens: Again, Jimmy has never told me.
McNamee: He sat down writing on the stupid yellow pad. He took notes. And he said he spoke to Randy. And he said he's covered. And I said, all right, well, don't tell Roger because I don't want to mess up …
Clemens: Nobody said a word to me, just like everything else.
McNamee: Well, I'm telling you the truth. I met with Jimmy in '04, and I told him. I said Jimmy, I just wanted to give you guys a heads up because you better have some information. I'd rather you be prepared than unprepared. And he took all these notes and [unintelligible] …
Clemens: I need somebody to come tell the truth. And I got this press conference on Monday that I've got to deal with next. And, like I said, everybody's got ulcers here, and it's, it's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's ridiculous. So, and I like I tell everybody, when I trained — I enjoyed training with you and I treat you like — I treat you like you were — like I would treat anybody else.
McNamee: I can't say it over and over again. You treated me better than everybody else and I couldn't have — like I said, you treated me like family. You brought me into your house. I ate with your family. I helped you with school projects. I can't deny that. And I've used how you were as a dad to your kids, I tried to be like you. I told people that. You know, that's one thing, this is another.
McNamee: I've got a car that doesn't work. I got [expletive] attorneys saying [expletive] they shouldn't be saying and trying to make a name from themselves where I lose control.
McNamee: Everything I have to this day I have because of you.
Clemens: I'm just, like I said, Mac, I'm just — I can't, you know, for the life of me, I'm trying to find out why you would tell guys that I used steroids from …
McNamee: I understand that. I understand that. And like I told the guys that tape-recorded me …
Clemens: Who's the guys that tape-recorded you?
Clemens: You're talking about the two investigators that came down and talked to you.
McNamee: Right. If I was lawyered up. If I had any idea what the [expletive] was going on, why would I do that?
Clemens: I just don't know why, and I like I said, I got the press conference Monday and I need to, you know, somebody's got to come tell the truth.
McNamee: Roger, Roger, tell me what the [expletive] you want me to do. What do you want me to do. My son is dying. He's 10.
Clemens: I understand that. And Mac, listen to me, that's why I answered your e-mail immediately. For me, there's more important things to me, and those things are important to me. I just had my college coach's son pass away. I got to go to his funeral. It's on Monday, the same time I'm supposed to have this press conference. And, so, I just need — like I said, I'm telling the truth and I want it out there and …
McNamee: Tell me what you want me to do. I told you in the [unintelligible]. What do you want me to do? I'll go to jail, I'll do whatever you want.
Clemens: I need somebody to tell the truth, Mac.
McNamee: What do you want me to do right now?
Clemens: It's ridiculous.
McNamee: What do you want me to do right now, Roger?
Clemens: It's just being ridiculous.
McNamee: Who? Me?
Clemens: No, I said everything.
McNamee: Tell me what you want me to do. I'm firing my lawyers. I'm getting rid of everybody. I have nothing. What do you want me to do? My wife is gone. My kids are gone. What do you want me to do?
Clemens: I didn't do this, Mac. Let me, let me just — I didn't do it and, and, and just, just — I need, I need some — you know, like I said, I'm trying to get a direction and, and, and trying to comfort everybody and like I said, you know, you know what I think about your wife and your boys. You know that. I don't think I've left that uncovered one bit. Like I said, I do anything for them. And, and that's just, that's what's just, just eating at my gut in this whole thing. And, so, I mean, let me, just give me a little time here tonight and, just give me a little time. I'm glad at least you told me that. And, you know, about your boys, because, I don't want — they can't — I know over the years the up and downs that the little man's had. And all of our boys. And it's killing them. Right now, Kacy's just like, they're all, they're all in just a state, and it's, it's just, it's, it's, you know, like I said. They're coming. I mean, it's, it's unbelievable so — I just need somebody to tell the truth. And, and let me, let me just — I got to visit with some people and — because, you know, like I said, I'm just, I'm just devastated by this. And, and, I mean that's just where I'm at it. I'm just, I'm just so, I mean, I'm hurt, I'm upset, I'm shocked by some of the other, the other things that have been said. And I just know that I didn't do it and we need to, you know, move on from there.
McNamee: Just tell me what you want me to do. Just tell me what you want to me do.
Clemens: Let me just get back with you bro. I just can't — I mean, I'm, I'm about ready — like I said, I'm — you know, I just wanted — again, I need to — you know, like I said, I'm with you on — with your boy and everything that's being said there and I hear you. That's why I got back with you so quick, because that, that bothers me. And so. Let me just …
McNamee: I knew you would.
Clemens: Let me just visit with some people, and, and, and, and, and we'll go from there.
McNamee: All right.
Clemens: All right.