Bundles.
Rogers has them. Bell has them. So do Telus, Cogeco, Shaw, and most other telecommunications providers.
The idea is simple: Your telephone or cable provider bundles together multiple services (telephone, internet, television) for convenience and savings. I know some people who love their bundles, and others who hate their bundles.
Have you bundled up? What’s your experience been?
Leave your comments below, or add them to the wiki.
I have a bundle with Shaw. They give me a cheaper rate for my phone and Internet. But that’s were the savings end. If I add cable into the mix I do not save anymore money than I am currently. I would really like to get HDTV from Shaw (there is no over the air HDTV in Calgary) but it’s very expensive and they won’t cut anymore off the bill if I bundle it.
They are losing money from me because of this.
Bundling has always worried me. If I lock all my communications into one company to save a couple bucks, what happens if they go down. I have my cell with Rogers, cable is Shaw and Telus cover internet and phone. (And I am not happy with any of them.) The odds of all of them going down at the same time is low. Also, I am a skeptic, these companies want all of your communications business so the offer a bundle price that seems great, but then you’re trapped by a contract. Once you’re signed in the services can and do change. Internet is not as fast as promised, uptime is not as good, or the phone rings to the wrong numbers.
It’s a funny world, isn’t it? If a seller of financial products does something like this, it’s called “tied selling” and is illegal.
http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/rights/TiedSelling/RightsTiedSelling_e.asp
Not sure if this applies to other (non-financial) sellers. I found another website that said this same info existed on the competition bureau’s website, but I couldn’t find it.
All a bundle is for a consumer is punishment for not spending more and a clear indication that you could be getting a better deal from businesses. There is no real benefit to consumers other than exposing some artificial price inflation.
@Kirby — that’s very interesting. On his blog, Ike Elliot explains something that sounds a lot like coercive tied selling.
From http://ikeelliott.typepad.com/telecosm/2008/01/time-warner-cab.html:
Generally speaking, I’m against bundles because I don’t like having all my eggs in one basket, so to speak. As daryl cognito says, above, there’s the risk that if one service goes down, they all go down.
There’s also the risk that if the corporation decides they don’t like you (for example, if there is a dispute over billing or payment) they can shut you down entirely.
I feel the same way about banks, which is why my mortgage, my savings, and my credit cards are all at different banks. Call me paranoid, but I’ve been stung by this in the past, when a bank arbitrarily removed funds from one of my accounts to cover a mistake (that they made) in another account, which set off a chain reaction of overdrafts, which were all then blamed on me.
However, as I get older and mellower and more domesticated, I find myself worrying about these things less – at least when it comes to media. So now my cable, Internet, and telephone are all run through Videotron. It seems to be working well so far, and it saves me money.
I don’t have a problem with bundles as such. The problem I have is that they often seem to be hard to get out of….
The LD (Long Distance) Bundle with Bell/Sympatico has been a nightmare. If there is a problem, the Sympatico service side can’t access the Bell billing side and vice versa. Most people at Bell/Sympatico, and the software that supports them do not even know how to handle the LD Bundle. My problem arose because I was paying for HSL (read: high speed, top dollar) but only getting one tenth of the speed other users get. I wanted to pay for a lower level of internet service since that’s all I’m able to get with them. I sometimes get someone who seems to understand but in the end, despite verbal promises, nothing changes. Every call is a new adventure – changing service levels is next to impossible. I’ve been trying for 8 months now. Signed, Way Too Patient.
One problem with bundles is highlighted by Rogers latest comprehensive price increases ‘to serve you better we are going to charge you more for the same level of service….’ The increased costs are probably not enough for most Rogers customer, myself included, to over come the inertia of the hassle/cost associated with switching to another provider.
Kirby, read your own link. Bundling and getting additonal discounts is NOT tied selling.
I agree that bundles are a way to reduce competition. Interesting that it’s illegal in the financial industry.
I’m fine with mine, but the constant attempts to upsell drive me crazy.
Incidentally, it will be a long time before I ‘upgrade’ to HDTV. A lot of people don’t realize that the video you’re getting is often compressed anyway, so the quality is limited by the provider. For some broadcasts that are highly compressed, you could ironically get a better picture with rabbit ears. It’s for suckers.
I realize I’m sort of an oddball in this regard, but I don’t have cable (I mostly rent DVDs of shows I’m interested in instead, though I do sometimes watch over-the-air programmes). When I got an HDTV recently, I was astonished at how much better the reception was for the over-the-air channels I get just with rabbit ears.
coercive tied selling- the HBO thing is NOT c.t.s., HBO makes available this service, and apparently it transmits the carrier signal in only one format, digital broadband; they are not forcing anyone to choose one service or another, except that it must be in digital cable format; here is a good example of c.t.s.;
in the 1990's if you bought a computer and ran Windows AND you wanted to browse the internet, you needed to use Internet Explorer. Rather, Windows PREFERED IE; Netscape would run, but usually not well.
As for bundles-I have not personally bundled anything, nor would I; the savings seem to be there but do not usually surface as anything significant, or what you save is not worth the service you receive. Most of all I agree with Ed H. et al.; if you are bundled, and the Corp. decides they have issues with you, you find yourself high and dry.
Bundles say they are going to save you money but I see the companies can’t resist sending an overly complex bill with “extra” charges on them. I have phone /LD and intenet with Telus and bundled them 4 months ago. So far there has been a problem on 3 of the 4 bills, including charging 12% GST and adding in a “pro rating” charge of a couple bucks on 3 of the 4 bills. And, my net price paid seems to have gone up from what I had before. I got into the bundle because they said it would give me a flat, predictable rate. Didn’t happen.
My other pet peeve is the “signing bonuses” these companies offer new customers but continue to stick it to the long timers. I would think a company like Shaw, Rogers or Telus would show their appreication for their long term customers rather than give out free stuff to people who are confirmed “jumpers” who switch providers on a regular basis.
Dan mentioned on the radio show that in the future, you can get call display on your TV set.
I’m sad to inform him that the future is already here. MTS already has this service if you subscribe to their MTStv and home phone bundle.
@Dale: thanks for this. I hadn’t heard of this service from MTS. According to Steven Wagner, Rogers is working on something similar.
I think we’ll see more and more of this cross-platform integration as incentive to bundle.
My husband and I have recently bundled with Eastlink. We used to have Bell satellite, Aliant telephone and Eastlink internet. We were not able to get Aliant internet in our new home and had just transfered our Aliant phone when we moved. We decided to switch to Eastlink , since they offered internet at our new location and bundling saved us about $40-50. We were so happy to do it and it has served us well, saving us money and only having one bill for all three services. The Eastlink television package gives us way more options for less money then we had before as well.
Bundling is a joke. I got conned into bundles for my business & home by Bell. I thought I was getting one bill — first surprise, the “bundle” was only for savingings, I still got 3 bills. When I cancelled the cell for my business, I paid a penalty (Apr. 07), which due to Bell’s miscalculation I overcharged & had a credit balance. My refund was “in the system” according to Bell would take at least 75 days to process. To date, I have not received the refund & Bell has taken more & more of it. When I asked why, I was told that it was “active dormant account” & they could assess a monthly service fee. When I canceled the business Sympatico, a month after the contract had expired, I was initially told that because I hadn’t communicated with Sympatico BEFORE the end of the contract, it was automatically renewed & I would have to pay a cancellation fee — I got out of that one only after pointing out that was illegal.
Bell’s bundles are terrible, their customer service (waiting 45 mins on hold or with Emily is unreasonable) is aweful & the hassle of bundles is so not worth any savings. My telephone & internet is now with a local company where a person answers the phone & customer service is pleasant & helpful. My other complaint with bundles is that when you cancel because of the terrible service, Bell calls & harrasses you about changing back.
Okay- I’m bundling Telephone,TV & Cable with Telus here in Calgary. Main reason to switching from traditional cable (Shaw) was the cleaner signal (and lack of ghosts in the cable signal in my 50 year old apartment building).. oh and yeah – I have TV call display with that too.
I do like the one-bill idea – and I agree that there are restricted options on how much you really can customize – but it’s been okay for us.
FYI Both Starchoice and Bell Expressvu satellite systems have been offering Call display on your television for the past several years… it’s definetly not something that is coming in the future, it’s here…..
Other than that, I really enjoyed the piece..
All this griping about bundles is just the usual paranoia of the victim mindset. Companies offer bundles because the marketplace is highly competitive and has low margins. (It’s also not illegal, as suggested earlier.) If enough people were willing to spend more to get features like individual selection of channels, then someone would offer it to those willing to pay it. I have MTS TV, and for an extra $5 per month, I get 12 more channels, so if I don’t watch half I don’t care. The fact is that TV, phone and internet service are all commodities, and it’s all about price.
The fear about companies going under is also ridiculous. If Bell went under, I’m sure Rogers or someone else would be there to take our business. Phone companies don’t go around dismantling their telephone lines if they go broke.
The only reason bundling doesn’t offer better deals at lower prices, is because the CRTC protects Canadian companies artificially, which means only that Canadian consumers pay more.
If you don’t like it, pay a little more and unbundle. If you want to save, bundle up. No one’s putting a gun to your head.
Ummm… it all depends on what your taste are, and yes they can be ‘bundl-icious’. They can benefit us by giving us the access to these somewhat vital ressources for us to use and enjoy, but their are so many catches, as well as competing prices. I know one freind who had to get rid of his television and internet, because the bundle had reached an outstanding price then when he started at. Now he’s stuck at home with a phew DVD’s, a TV with zero reception and a phone line.
Back in the day when the telephone industry was being deregulated, we were often told the big line – “compatition is good for the consumer.” And sure it is. But then the telco companies started rolling in and they began spruking their wears. Soon after there was a encrypted cloud of products and services that you needed to wade through just to buy a mobile phone.
The former CEO of New Zealand Telecom Theresa Gattung admitted the use of confusion as a chief marketing tool in the industry Unsurpisingly “bundling” is the next big thing in their toolbox of confusion.
Bundles? Bah!!
I want ONLY the content and services I am interested in at a price that works for me.
I see bundles as another way for corporations to dangle carrots in front of the consumer and lock them in for increased profit.
Bundling HD tv with a bunch of unwanted content or a phone service is not a savings if I have no use for the basic service/content.
With high speed internet I can go where I want, when I want. In time, it is my hope that with increased bandwidth, content providers can pitch to me directly so that I can customize the experience to my liking. Less is so much more when it becomes exactly what you want.
Fred
re: Bundling (Bell vs the cable company)
Loved the piece.
It’s hard to decide which company provides the most customer unfriendly service. Rogers used to be #1, but Bell has recently re-established itself as the #1 undisputed champion of terrible cusomer service. I can’t understand allowing either of these companies to have more control through bundling – the savings aren’t great (asuuming one can figure out the “packages”) and the potential for disaster unlimited.
(Last experience with Bell: 3 months and 18 calls to “Emily” to reconnect our seasonal number when it was supposed to be automatically reconnected; including two reconnections to the wrong property (the problem was a 30 fix compunded by clerical errors))
(Last experience with Rogers: 12 hour wait on the telephone)
Recently, I moved from the United States. Sadly, I chose Videotron to be my cable/internet/phone provider.
I bundled up, because I thought Videotron would provide the same outstanding customer service, packages, and savings I’d enjoyed for six blissful years from my cable provider in the US.
I was sorely mistaken.
When I called Videotron to subscribe, I was told I had to commit to a one-year contract. I could not switch to another provider, even if I hated their service. I assumed I could get out of the contract *if* I moved to another province or left the country, but that was not the case. I discovered that, a week after I signed up, after I’d been sweet-talked into a package deal.
To make a long story short, for another 102 days [but who’s counting?} I am stuck with the WORST telecommunications company, with their confusing mess of bungled…er…bundled plans, on the planet.
Every morning I get up and check my usage. Have I exceeded my limits, and if I have, what will I be “fined”? I have NEVER had to monitor my usage, and I’ve been online since 1995. Have I used up my long distance minutes? Can I switch a station in my 30-channel package without incurring change fees? Can I check my account online after midnight? Hell no! They close up shop!
In a few months I am moving to another province. I will be forced to pay a huge penalty when I cancel my Videotron account. Because I’m bundled to the gills, I will have to pay literally hundreds of dollars to free myself from the shackles of Videotron. I’ll shell out big bucks for canceling the phone, another for canceling the Internet, and yet another for cable TV. Sheer highway robbery! It’s bad enough that I am forced to pay my bill a month in advance! That wretched company uses collects interest on my prepayments. I am beyond livid! Even more irritating, when I move out west, I just know that some of my tax dollars will end up in Videotron’s coffers.
But I digess…
I don’t know if I’ll bundle with Shaw when I move. I’ll carefully read the fine print with a fine-toothed comb before signing on the dotted line. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way.
Chris,
I did read my own link. I wouldn’t post something w/out reading it first. What I also did, though, was use one of those “when I nod my head, hit it” kind of sentences.
When I said “not sure if this applies…” I didn’t literally mean the law as stated in the link – that’s only for financial products. I really meant “not sure if there’s a corresponding applicable law…” I’ll try to proofread a little better in the future.
I can’t say I really agree with you, though. Selling bundles IS tied selling – it just happens to be illegal if you’re selling financial products, but not for other things.
“Hi Chris, thanks for taking out an RRSP loan. If you invest your RRSP with us as well, we’ll take off a half-point in interest”
or
“Hi Chris, thanks for buying our super couch potato HD TV package. If you sign up for our high-speed internet as well, you’ll save $10/month on your bill”
Maybe I’m simple, but I don’t see a lot of difference between the two.
Nora,
when we lived in TO, we didn’t have cable, either. There is a pretty good selection of over-the-air channels there, especially on a clear day when you can pick up Buffalo and (sometimes) Hamilton stations. Broadband is almost at the point where I’m ready to ditch cable again.
We also rent a lot of DVDs. Keeps the kids entertained and they’re not watching all those annoying ads on YTV.
Is there anyone out there who’s used one of those mail-to-your-door monthly services? I’m curious to know what they’re like for speed, selection, etc.
Nora, we used Netflix when we were in the States. They had a huge selection. Usually, the movies arrived a day or two after we ordered them online. We never had a problem.
As I understand it, Netflix gets their inventory free of charge, and gives the studios a percentage of each rental.
OTOH, Zip.ca, which we tried out, buys their movies, so the selection and inventory is somewhat limited. If there’s a waiting list for a popular movie, you have to pay extra to get to the front of the line. Needless, to say we canceled. It just wasn’t worth it.
* * * *
On a different note, I have a bone to pick with the History Channel. Why don’t they air “Ice Road Truckers?” The series is about Canadian truckers that haul supplies to diamond mines in the NWT. We watched it when we lived in the US, and it was fantastic – not to mention, one of the most watched series on the US History Channel.
Oops – I meant to address Kirby, not Nora.
I’m not surprised to hear about people getting taken by large service providers like Bell or Rogers, they are in the business of making money. They try to find a way of encouraging everyone to use them so they create a range of packages to suit different people’s requirements. A bundle is just another way of making people think thay are getting a deal when they really arn’t. Taking 10% off a 100% mark-up is no discount, but it’s better than no discount.
One thing I don’t understand is why wireless prices are so high in Canada. Prices for cell phones are way cheaper in other areas of the world. Wireless infrastructure is cheaper to install and maintain than traditional wired lines, bandwidth is cheaper now than it has ever been. Wireless services should be cheaper than land lines, but they are still very high. I don’t want to call it price fixing, but it’s hard to call it anything else.
I used one of the larger companies for all my communication needs for several years (bundled). They even gave me a “Gold Service Card” (I used the number on the card to finally cancel my services).
The thing that finally drove me away was not the high price or unreliable service, it was the shockingly poor customer service. I had spent hours trying to sort out billing errors that never seemed to work in my favor. At one point in time I started getting bills with my name spelled incorrectly and it took three calls to finally talk to someone who told me they could help. Later that month when I ordered a new modem my name on the package had a different spelling error.
I've always resisted bundling because it's never been worth it for the services I actually want. But I'm about to take the plunge, because my internet provider (Primus) is currently offering a bundle that includes
DSL high-speed internet with phone service at a price that actually represents a savings. I've been happy with Primus's tech support & service as an ISP so I'm hoping they're up to scratch on the phone end of things too.
Barb C.
My understanding of tied selling is: “We will approve your loan if you transfer over your investments”…
If they offer a discount because you use more of their services that isn’t considered tied selling.
***thanks for all the posts. I’ve just had a 4.5 month nightmare with Shaw (telephone but we do have a bundle). I thought I would do some homework to change providers…it’s sad to say it doesn’t seem like there are any good options.
I just placed a call to Isabelle Dessureault @ 514) 295-0304) @ Videotron – she is the VP of Corp Affairs and VOX. No ans but did get through to Nicole Poudrier her assistant. I politely explain the follwoing:
My story starts Aug 14, 2008:
1st call to Videotron told unless I bundle not to bother. Agent hangs up.
2nd call 1 week later – I get rate on bundle for Telephone & High Speed – I agree – am told as this is my first time with Videotron I must pay $200.00 by credit card or deposit at bank. I will go to bank – per agent who advises me I do not need an account # – just pay at the bank they will send payment.
3rd call as this last seems odd – turns out I need to set up account get account # then go to bank and pay.
4th call – confirm deposit received – and advised CABLE is ready to go. I asked only for High Speed & Telephone – changes made – confirmation of appointment for Videotron to come and install.
5th call – day of installation – i have taken day off work – wait all morning – no Videotron – call and am advised they changed appointment for another day without advising me. Good thing I called. As a consolation I am offered 1 month free Internet – and need to take another day off work. I say this isn't good enough – supervisor gets on phone advises if I stay at home till 9pm someone will come. I agree – man comes to install – its Fri aft and he wants in and out fast. After threatening to call Videotron – he agrees to install technology where I want it.
6th call – still no phone – advised no problem will be working by Sept 07.
7th call First bill arrives – am billed for 2 months cable in additon to Iservices requested. More time spent from paypnoe trying to regulate – as home phone still not working.
Sept 8 – now almost 1 month and I still have no telephone. I have left this in Ms Poudriers hands.
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