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Gay teen wins fight over Catholic prom
To all of those people screaming about how Marc Hall has ruined the Catholic Church and it's teachings. Let us be clear, this issue does not speak to how you organize your private religious activities. Rather it has always been about the Catholic School Board's ability ,or lack thereof, to discriminate in the name of religious dogma. The Catholic School Boards are mandated in the Education Act of Ontario and paid for by the Government of Ontario. This makes them a public institution, and as such they must be held to a higher standard. In the private practice of Catholicism it is permissible (and protected by the Charter) to prevent women from being priests, is it acceptable for Catholic Schools to prevent women from being Principals?
Public institutions do not have the same rights accorded private institutions or citizens. In fact they have a responsibility to uphold the Charter. The Charter as well as the Education Act says so.
David Howse
Mississauga, Ontario
Marc Hall may very well be gay and may not be obeying Gods commands, but God loves him just as much as he loves us. God hates the sin but loves the sinner, and I believe Marc will go to Heaven. He has Faith and loves God and isn't ashamed of who he is, I believe God will have grace on Marc and that he will enter the kingdom of God. He is not at all whatsoever taking God for granted. He is just being himself.
Darlene Healey
This is yet another case of freedom granted to a vocal sector of society and not to another. I do not think the government has a right to tell a private school how to conduct their events. While I know there are gay people and I am sorry for them but I agree that this situation is unfair to the school and their beliefs. We go too far in giving certain rights to a loud minority and not to others. There seems to be Catholic prejudice here!
Murrie Redman
This is tolerance gone mad. It's scary how easily institutional rights and ethics can be streamrolled with a simple stroke of a judicial pen.
David Owens
Does the church ban blacks from its schools? If a student is mentally disabled does that exclude them from the catholic school system? Is a person of Asian descent considered a bad influence on the church and therefore banned?
How far does freedom of religion go? Can I start up a religion based on child molestation and claim immunity because I think my holy book says it's ok? If homosexuality is so bad, why aren't there laws in Canada banning it? Why aren't all homosexuals in jail right now for their evil and harmful ways and where's the studies to prove this apparent 'fact'?
The only way the Catholic church can honestly win this case is to prove the immorality and inherent danger in homosexuality. We're not talking about opinion here, we're talking about a court of law where proven facts are required. They'll have to prove how a small handful of homosexuals in their schools is going to cause irreperable harm to everyone involved and how it will crumble the foundations of the church.
Catholics can complain all they like about it, but if they're allowed to repress homosexuals, they'll be allowed to ban blacks, asians, the disabled and anyone else they deem 'immoral' with no more evidence than a badly interpreted bible passage. Our laws and rights are and should be based on what's good for ALL people, not just catholics, asians or homosexuals. Freedom of religion does not include the freedom to discriminate.
Tom Wilson
Toronto ON
I commend the Durham Catholic School Board for standing up for their right to uphold Catholic Teaching and am confident they will succeed in the next round of this battle.
The School Board did not discriminate against Marc Hall.
Homosexuals achieved "mere equality" years ago. This was about special privilege.
And speaking of discrimination, why has the CBC only interviewed Marc Hall and his lawyer? We heard nothing from the lawyer for the School Board.
All the reporting has been of Marc Hall, his picture is everywhere and his "case" is always presented. Looks like bias to me.
One last point. I have in front of me a copy of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. NOWHERE, in this document, is there ANY mention of
sexual "orientation". How is it that the homosexual lobby has managed to convince most Canadians that the Charter defends sexual orientation???
Renate Vandenberg
St. Catharines, ON
According to the Bible, we should remember "Judge not, lest you be judged". I personally do not agree with the court decision, nor do I agree with homosexuality. However, having said that, I now say that I must not - and will not - judge this young man for his personal beliefs: he has the God-given right to choose for himself, and to accept any consequences there may be for his choices.
Anthony Snedke
It's no accident that judge Mackinnon made public his decision on this case, just a few hours before the start of the prom. His delay was surely not caused by his struggle over the difficulty of the decision; does a competent judge really need days to decide such a case ? Rather, I'm afraid, his delay was a political strategy; making his decision so late gave the Mark Hall critics no opportunity to forward a counter-attack, and no chance of stopping his attendance at the prom.
Mark attending his prom, is no doubt a symbolic victory for the gay movement, and this judge did what he could to guarantee it.
Legally, the judge's decision is grossly inconsistent with the laws of this land, and a shock to most of the legal minds in this country - even to those who support the gay cause. But it seems, judge Mackinnon chose to ignore legal precedent, and shirk his official responsibilities, in order to score political points to advance his own personal pro-gay agenda.
If, in a further travesty of justice, this ridiculous decision stands up to subsequent court action, then judges in this land will become the ultimate authority - above parents, teachers, and religious leaders. They will become our new Gods, and the Charter will supersede school policies, parent rules, the Qoran, the Torah, and the Bible. Goodbye democracy...welcome communism !
Well, this comrade will need plenty of reprogramming before I come to believe the suspect morality forced upon me by self-appointed judges/Gods.
Lou D'Amore
Shame on Justice Robert MacKinnon and all people who applaud his decision to allow Marc Hall to bring his homosexual partner to his prom. Homosexual behavior is NOT a permanent state. Tens of thousands of homosexuals have changed from homosexual to heterosexual using multiple methods including going to psychologists and pastoral counselors. This young lad should be in therapy, not having his deviant sexuality reinforced judges and the media.
K. Bannister
Edmonton Alta.
The judge's decision is, of course, wrong. He has substituted the gratification of one selfish young man's desire to thumb his nose at his church's authority for the rights of a group to set amongst themselves the rules for conduct which they will accept. It you wish to be a Catholic and belong to Catholic institutions you follow the rules of the Church. Otherwise you can leave. Marc is free to leave. His parents, assuming they are Catholics, should be ashamed of the odium they have helped him bring unnecessarily upon his church.
One wonders, were Marc a Buddhist or a Muslim would any court dare to interfere in this way?
Simon Brooks
Bedford, N.S.
It does seem rather obvious that the discriminatory action on the part of
school officials contravens not only the "Ontario Human Rights Code, the
Education Act, and the provincial Code of Conduct", but quite likely the
Canadian Charter of Rights. Moreover, it is high time that the hierarchy of
the Catholic Church in Canada and elsewhere begin to recognize and comply
with national laws and customs, which in many respects, supersede their own.
Anthony Fenton
Tokyo, Japan
It is my opinion that if this was a Muslim, Hindu, Mormon, or any other
religious school that had decided to disallow a gay couple to attend the
prom due to their belief system, there would have been no action taken
because it would have been viewed as a "freedom of religion" issue vs. the
"discrimination" issue that this was made out to be.
B.Crowe
Brandon,Manitoba
Homosexuality is a
lifestyle choice, that the church believes is harmful to the body and soul
of those who choose to engage in homosexual acts. Will Catholic schools be
"permitted by the state" to teach that life begins at conception, and other
views that some judge doesn't like?or is this the beginning of a new
persecution of the Church?
Rory O'Neill
My family and many others are completely disgusted with today's ruling.
We continue to demonstrate how primitive a society we really are when we
surrender to the perversion of a small minority group. Are the rights of
good, moral catholic citizens even considered nowadays?
I am a devout catholic who financially supports the catholic separate school
system and I believe that we have a stronger right (under the Charter of
Rights and Freedoms) to oppose anti-catholic beliefs. Where is a parent
supposed to send his/her children to school so as not to expose them to this
kind of perversion? The homosexuals also have freedom to practice their
perverted lifestyles (under the same Charter) at one of many public schools
in the province, which by the way outnumber the catholic schools.
I hope the children will do the right thing and boycott tonight's prom in
protest of today's decision. My children will not be attending! Shame on
the Ontario Superior Court!
Anthony Baggio
So the judge in the Durham prom case has ruled that Marc Hall can promote
his homosexual lifestyle against the religious and moral views of the
Catholic school hosting it. And the judge did so hours before the prom
would actually begin, ensuring no chance of an appeal and effectively
eliminating the school board's right to due process.
Many aspects of religion and faith are by definition discriminatory. Some
faiths ban women from leading or teaching. Some won't hire people who've
participated in practices they don't believe in (ie. divorce).
But a truly free society allows people to practice their faith, regardless
of how the rest of society views them. It's interesting to note that the
Canadian constitution also entrenches this right even for aspects of faith
that might otherwise be deemed 'discriminatory'.
Marc could've gone to a public school where his homosexual lifestyle
would've been openly welcomed. But he chose to attend a Catholic school,
knowing they had a stand against homosexuality. And now the Catholics are
being forced to abandon their religious freedom to accomodate him.
This ruling is the first step in a frightening trend that'll promote the
homosexual lifestyle at the expense of those who have moral and religious
views against it.
Jamie Hardy
Winnipeg,MB
While my heart goes out to Marc Hall, I believe it's incredibly dangerous to legislate what happens within any religious institution. There must be freedom for religion in Canada...not freedom to express religion as long as it makes decisions everyone is comfortable with. It's goes against sound democracy to have the government interfere with the decision of a separate entity; the church. Separation of church and state in Canada ended today, and I for one fear the future for all religious institutions.
Torie and Chantelle Carlson
The sole purpose of Marc Hall's"prom date" campaign has been to deliberately flout the teachings of the Church of which he claims to be a member. Now that Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert Mackinnon has been co-opted by Hall's odious campaign, it is a sad day for religious freedom in this country.
Marc Hall already had his equality rights respected by the Durham Catholic School Board. He already had the same rights as anyone else had: to show up at the prom with a date of the opposite sex, or to come stag with a group of friends, or even to skip the prom altogether. Plenty of teenagers have done these things on prom night for years, and none has found it necessary to go to court. There is no justification at all for Hall to be treated any differently.
To be fair, however, blame does not rest solely with Hall, his boyfriend, and Judge Mackinnon. Blame must also be apportioned to Hall's parents, who have abjectly sacrificed their integrity as Catholics in order to satisfy their son's sexual preference, and even to the Catholic school board itself. It said that it only opposed Hall's gay lifestyle, but not his right to "be" homosexual. Why did it even make the distinction? Both homosexual ideologues and Christian scripture make clear (despite being on opposite sides of the argument) that "being" homosexual is all about sexual behaviour and lifestyle. Yes, it is about sex, and yes, it is a lifestyle. The Catholic school board has painted itself into a corner, has not been vigorous enough in opposing Hall, and so has solved nothing.
The end result will, of course, be the loathsome spectacle of Hall snuggling on the dance floor tonight with his 21-year-old homosexual lover. It's bad enough that such debauchery must prevail in a secular school system, but worse that it must also prevail in a Catholic system, where parents still expect traditional family and religious values to be taught. Homosexuality is something to be overcome and renounced, not celebrated. Shame on our courts for not recognizing this truth.
Christopher Van-Lane
Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
Congratulations Marc
I applaud not only for the courts but also
you for your courage to stand for what is the
core values of your being.
You set a fine example for all of us to
follow.
I am a straight white male, and I just
cannot appreciate the angst you and
your family must have suffered during
these most difficult days.
And, I ashamed that I did not speak earlier
while you were struggling.
Enjoy the dance, and your friends. They are
very special people.
You have won a victory not only for gay
rights, but for all those repressed.
Again, Bravo!
Al Sather
There is a way no-one has yet mentioned that Marc Hall could have taken his boyfriend to the prom, with no fuss. This would have been to simply intorduce him as a friend, and to keep the kissy-touchy stuff for private moments, as indeed should heterosexual couples.
This route apparently not having entered anyone's mind, we must believe that Marc's motives were less to be "able to celebrate his prom with his schoolfriends" than to force an issue with the Catholic School, and to make a fuss in the media. No-one was suggesting barring him from his prom until he forced the knowledge of his sexual orientation on them, and most people do not use a public forum to make an issue of their sexual preference. Perhaps the School was envisioning dancing that more closely resembles a sex act, taking place on their hallowed gymnasium floor. Who knows.
The School has not come off too well in this matter, looking like a bunch of old fogies wanting to prevent some high spirited teens from having fun. And I'm disappointed that the young man won.
What this has taught him is that if you whine in public that you are not being treated fairly, you can cause the media to jump all over your imagined persecutor and get totally off-issue (because you are gay, and to most folk that's a hot-button, regardless of their personal views on the issue). Some really valuable lessons he COULD have learned would be to behave modestly no matter what your sexual orientation; to show manners and consideration to all people even those with whom you do not agree; to abide by rules that some people hold dear; to avoid foisting your preferences on other people, because your rights end where theirs begin; that you don't always get your own way; and most importantly of all for someone entering the adult world: life is not always fair, get used to it.
I hope he got REALLY good grades, because his attitude stinks - and believe me, I am far from being anti-gay. I'm very pro personal freedom, but there is such a thing as knowing how to behave decently - and this was not it.
Catherine Melanson
I am a catholic and have many family members and friends who are
gay. That means woman and men. I say this so that you know I am not
biased in any way.
I think it is wonderful that the courts are finally opening their eyes to
the acceptance of differing needs in today's society. I will not say "new
needs" because gay persons have been in existence for thousands of
years. The only difference is that the standards for today are changing
and people are taking a stand for what they believe in. God says he loves
us all "unconditionally". Congrats to Marc Hall and his courage to
stand for what he believes in!!!!!
Diana E. LeBlanc
Memramcook, NB
Just heard the news about the decision and I was prompted to think about Romans 1 26-27.
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men , and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
I consider myself to be a regular average Canadian. As a Christian we love the sinner but hate the sin. My prayers go out to Marc Hall tonight that he has a great time
at the Prom and the media leave the area alone. Marc probably doesn't realise just what a precedent he has set.
The judge ruled by his interpretation of the Ontario Law. If we followed God's law this incident would not have come up.
Mike North
Jesus was a nice guy - he would have wanted Marc to have a good time with
his boyfriend at the prom.
Joel Shane
Before parents put their kids to study at Catholic school or any kind of
school, parents should consider the rules and regulations of the
school.
It seems like this teen is mixed up with legal rights, equality rights
and basic freedom with Citizenship rights and responsibilities with his
action about his prom. These rights have nothing to do with his actions
whatsoever.
Tina Russell
I'm a 51 year old gay Canadian, presently residing in Vancouver; born and raised in Manitoba.When I look at what young Marc Hall is doing, in pushing for his right to take his partner to the graduation prom, I feel a sense of shame.
Shame, at myself, for not having been more of an activist through the years, and involved in the struggle for rights, amd basic human dignity.I am one who was never taunted, teased, or bullied, because of sexual orientation.But,almost everyone I know,(or knew), has been, including three friends who lost their lives through the violence of anti-gay hatred.The sort of hatred that has it's roots, in the archaic, misinformed, and mis-translated dogma of religion.
Marc Hall, it may not be your intention, but you are making history, and taking brave and significant steps, in your fight to take the person you love, to that right of passage called the prom.You have my greatest respect, and admiration.
I am also one who has been battling the Human Immunodeficiency Virus for many years, and am well past my 'expiry date'.I have seen the worst of man's inhumanity to man, apart from war. But, as for those unique individuals that go to bat for the rest of us, I say...Thank You. Now, The 3 men I admire most ? Terry Fox, Rick Hansen, and Marc Hall.
H.(Bart) Vincelette
Vancouver, B.C.
I'm not Catholic and I'm not gay, but I've got more common sense than any of these airheads that are throwing this big stink about Marc Hall. Look... we are ALL human regardless of race, creed, color, religion... OR sexual preference. We are all born equal just as we all die equal. We all breathe the same air, just as we ALL should enjoy the same rights... whether personal or public.
I do NOT endorse homosexuality. They have their own lifestyles and many of their own views. As long as they don't try to push their sexual preferences on me, they can do whatever the hell they want to do.
In the matter of Marc Hall, I do not support his sexual orientation. I DO support his human rights... the rights that are being suppressed.
What is the real problem? Why is it such a dilemma as far as letting a gay boy take his partner to the prom? Why is the Catholic school board so uptight about this case? Is it because they never had dates for their OWN proms? No... probably not... so why should they be able to deny Marc Hall the same luxury and right?
COME ON, PEOPLE!!!!! We have BIGGER problems to face in today's society... Drugs, D.U.I., rape, MURDER... the REAL problems. Let Hall have his evening.
Kris Dahl
He is suing the Catholic School Commission for not approving the
attendance of his also-Gay boy-friend at the current High-School Prom.
Let us hear more from the media about gay wrongs, not rights.
Homosexuality does not bode well with North American Catholics, what
with alleged molestation by ordained priests in the Boston area who
hastily discarded their mandatory vow of celibacy in favor of
performing predatory sexual acts on hundreds of boys AND girls over
many years.
Ryan Hackett
I am not a Catholic. I have to assume however that Mr Hall is, as he attends a Catholic school. The differentiation of the Catholic school board and the public school board is obviously based on religion. If Mr Hall does not like the teachings of the Catholic Church then he is free to attend a public school as I did. End of story.
Callum MacPhail
What about the rights of the Cathoic School Board? The parents had to know that they were sending their gay son to a religious school that didn't agree with homosexuality.
The school does not have the right to discriminate. But this is not discrimination it is school policy. There's a big difference. Mabey his parents should of considered this before sending their son to this school.
Let's put the blame where it should be.
Keith Waara
More power to Marc Hall. I am not at all surprised that the Catholic school board is recoiling in horror! I attended a Catholic high school in southern Ontario and, in spite of that, failed only to absorb its narrow, suffocating, hate-filled bigoted garbage. It's high time the Catholic church was given the heave-ho; their patriarchal, antagonistic, miserable dogma has no place in society.
Ruth Merkis-Hunt
This story is almost too ironic to be a joke.
The Catholics again, show they are not in control of their brains. They do it in the vestibules, they do it in the confessionals, they do it behind the curtains........with little boys!
I think they should have simply said that "its OK if the gay boy only only shows up with his friend once or twice and doesn't make a habit of it" He could then be forgiven.......but don't let him ever think of a divorce, that would be unforgiveable".
David Nicholishen
Albuquerque, NM
Has it crossed anyones mind that the Catholic church
is just a little out of touch with society here?
This is the year 2002 is it not? and why is it that
my tax dollars are going to a school system that promotes
bigotry towards a minority group.
I wish I could have been out as a gay man when I was in high school and
taken part in all of the special moments in life that most straight
people take for granted. The first date, The High School Prom, The first
kiss. Does any straight person understand what its like to be gay ?
I spent my whole teenage years in denial, alone and suicidal.
Why? For the same reason today.... that there are probably thousands of
young men and women in high school who are too afraid to come out because
the catholic and other educational systems choose to believe that we don't
exist.
John Hryniuk
It's outrageous and hypocritical that gay student Marc Hall and others think
they can impose their moral views on the Durham Catholic District School
Board contrary to the Board's religious beliefs.
What happened to religious freedom in this country? What happened to
freedom of conscience and having moral standards that differ from others?
Yes, Marc has rights according to our constitution. But so do Catholics and
the School Board.
A truly just society works out situations so that both people's rights can
be respected. Marc had the option of attending a non-Catholic public
school. Instead, he chose to attend a Catholic school knowing that they had
a moral and religious stand against homosexuality. Now he's demanding they
compromise to suit his moral standards.
The suggestion that because the school board receives public funding they
must compromise is frightening. Where will this stop? Will all churches
and charitable organizations be forced to accomodate homosexuals or other
groups they object to? Just because in some way or another they receive
public funding?
Jamie Hardy
Winnipeg, MB
The whole thing is most distasteful. Why should the courts have to be in the position to rule on what is morally acceptable or not. Why not let the people who it affects decide. I realize that the courts have been put in this position many times but it should still not have to be in their "court".
Eike Gutsche
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