The sounds of war
Comments (54)
Tuesday, August 1, 2006 | 05:15 PM ETBy Sat Nandlall
Southern Lebanon -- As we speed up the mountains and into the valleys that are Lebanon, many little towns and villages are encountered. The heavy bombardment is taking place to the south in and around Tyre and can be heard everywhere – it is also the direction and place we are going too.
The scenery whisks by the car window and takes on the aura of watching a television show. Like a television show there are moments you remember. There were two little boys I watched running like their life depended on it (like most little boys will do). They were wearing green camouflage – and laughing and having fun.
In a child’s perspective a day could be a year, ten metres could be a thousand. These little guys might or might not have a sense of the havoc being wreacked so close to them – the problems between two countries. But, it is happening and children are not immune from it.
I, along with a good portion of the world, watched the horrific pictures that came out of Quana. Thirty-seven children were killed by one bomb. I can only imagine that some of their minds were not filled with last thoughts or sights – only the sound of a deafening thunder – as the top floors crashed down on them as they prepared for the night.
The sound of real war is now closer to those two little boys. It will now shape them and become part of them. One cannot help, but think, that someday if they choose to wear “real” camouflage, will they remember running down the street laughing or will they remember the sounds of war.
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Sat Nandlall is a video producer for the National. He is currently in Beirut. He has covered conflicts for the CBC in the Balkans, East Timor, Afghanistan and Zimbabwe.
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Comments (54)
Jim Tyas
Calgary
After quickly going over some of the comments
I have to wonder what planet some of you people are from. Ignore the fact that Hezbollah hides amongst the civilians and do their sneak attacks. Ignore the fact that the civilians know this and do nothing about it, never mind the government itself! If we had people across the border from us sneaking across and slaughtering civilians sitting in cafes or on buses what would you commenters say then.Everything and anything that Harper has said has been nothing short of common sense of which the world is sorely lacking.Everytime we kowtow, either verbally or in our actions just exacberates the situation. You holier than thou's think that Israel should just turn the cheek? Over and over and over? Like I said...What planet are some of you people from?
Posted August 8, 2006 08:55 PM
Andre Escaravage
I watched the horrific pictures that came out of Quana and heard interviews from those leaving the area, many heading for ships bound for Cyprus or Turkey and then on to Canada. Israel says these residential areas were used for military purposes, including missile launch sites, for many months prior to the recent military action. In spite of this, the civilian population still supports the Hezbollah fighters and, that includes those interviewed after landing in Canada. Israel can't be blamed for civilian casualties when the population condones and supports the terrorists.
Posted August 7, 2006 08:34 AM
Sonia Mahfouz
toronto/lebanon
I am deeply sadened by what is going on in our counrty(lebanon) we were just there on vacation and had left 2 days before the fisrt bombing,we live here in canada but all of our family is there,
god bless u and our prayers are with everyone for this to end.
Posted August 6, 2006 01:57 PM
Sali
Canada
Hezbollah, Hamas, Hagganah, Irgun, Palmach, Stern Gang....all same thing, same goals....First two evolved in their countries of birth..long after the rest arrived from Europe to claim territory. Could it be that this war is about controlling water supply and sources? Like the Litani River? Operation Litani?...Another war general's dream.
Posted August 6, 2006 01:37 AM
John
Toronto
I'm sorry, I seemed to have mistakenly posted on the Al Canadzeera site!!!
Posted August 5, 2006 08:32 AM
Nick
Oakville
Regarding Charles’s little note:
Thank you for your ever-so-insightful xenophobic rant. You call yourself Canadian, yet seem to have no grasp of that fact this is a country of immigration; which, unlike other countries, is almost entirely dependent upon the some 300,000 or so new immigrants each year to fuel our economy, support the tax base and fund pension plans. Very basic Economics 101 supply & demand theory. Outside of First Nations and the few early settlers, including Norsemen, Celtics, British & French imperialists, we ARE ALL hyphenated Canadians. Yet, just because many of your fellow Canadian citizens have linkages to other lands doesn’t make them any less “CANADIAN”. Besides, many posters sympathetic to the Lebanese plight are not of Lebanese, Palestinian, Syrian or even Jewish decent; yet, it doesn’t mean that they’re not concerned with what’s taking place. This is known as humanity. What’s happening isn’t a childish video game!
I too am an immigrant (came here in ’78), but if you met me your xenophobic senses would never know it. I’m white; speak without an accent and enjoy sports such as hockey. Yet, like my many international colleagues (e.g. Oriental, Black, South-East Asian, Persian, etc. etc.), I have a white-collar job, raise decent children, abide by the law and pay my fair share of taxes.
As long as your knowledge of international affairs runs no deeper than that of the sound bite / cereal box variety, you’ll simply not get it!
Posted August 4, 2006 09:35 AM
Peter
Oakville
Although I wouldn't rank myself up there with the likes of Wolfowitz and Perle and Chaney or with Olmert and Peretz, I think I have landed on a solution for the Israeli government regarding the new proposed buffer zone from the northern border of Israel to the Litani River in Lebanon.
You can call it another "New Middle East" brilliant idea, and I'm open to the suggestion to be asked to join the Israeli war cabinet.
First we drive all the Lebanese civilians out of the zone, then flatten all their towns and villages, part of the "scorched earth" policy. Let's keep Tyre since it is a valuable sea port with strategic significance. Next let's erect a 4 meter high concrete "separation wall" along the Litani river. You've heard of the song...Down by the riverside, so we can study war no more.
Then we bring in the settlers who have a pioneer bent, to set up settlements right across the new zone. We could also have a lottery to select the best name of the separation wall (i.e. Peace Fence). Lastly as the crowning achievement, we could lobby the US and the UK to fund the entire development. That way we maintain security and expand territory. Just think of the spin-off benefits and jobs created to carry out this enterprise.
We still have to keep those damn Katushas from coming over Litani River and the Peace Fence. No plan's perfect.
Posted August 4, 2006 09:34 AM
Shinderpal Jandu
Montreal
It is hard to see the reality for what it is.
It is terrible for the poor civilians in lebanon.
However they made a deal with the devil.
You can stay here and shoot your rockets or attack from my area as long as you don't bother me and / or provide me with social services / support.
The civilian infrastructure was not strong enough to resist Hezbolah yet they were willing to make a deal with the devil and now they are paying the price.
It is a terrible thing and perhaps they did or did not ever consider that the chickens would come home to roost.
Very terrible.
As for the UN I do not know why in Canada we still living in a fantasy that we were the world's peacekeepers when first of all our military has been downgraded with support and secondly it only was a small part of our troops that were involved in this role.
On top of that Lester Pearson's whole project of the Sinai UN peacekeepers were ordered out by Nassar in 1967 - left and the 1967 six day war soon resulted. Lots of luck.
As for the role of the 2000 UN Peacekeepers lots of luck - immoral.
How did all of these rockets , which were widely known of in the popular press , be allowed to get into and remain in Lebanon.
Worse than the alledged oil for food program in Iraq which Kofi Anon's son was involved with. What an immoral organization of nepotism.
Posted August 4, 2006 08:47 AM
C Church
laval
Charles,
As a Canadian by several generations, married to a new immigrant, I have been privee to the stories of many other new immigrants. Yes, there is cheating and corruption that goes on within the immigration system, Lots of it! But I am angrier at our government, than I am at the people who use our systems to their advantage. They do here what they did back in their countries of origin and our government enables them.
Furthermore, It is unreasonable to think you can penalize Lebanese-Canadians, on summer holidays, who need help getting home. Just because you fear that they are living in Lebanon using Canada, and drainning our taxpaying dollars.
The logistics of the investigations of each claim for evacuation, would be costly, time consuming and impraticle.
As for those who keep asserting that the Lebanees in the Southern region have connections to Hezbollah, and are suggesting that they volunteer to be in harms way. This is maddness. They have no choice. The Children don't get to make decisions for themselves, neither do many of the women, and what do you expect little old men and women, with nowhere else to go, to do against men with guns??? If you were there, unarmed, and surrounded by armed military men telling you what to do, what would you do???
Most people under the stress of being bombed, go to the nearest and safest looking place they can find. To someone who doesn't know better, this may mean sharing space with men with guns.
Sorry for any typos, it's late!
Posted August 4, 2006 05:40 AM
Gina
Edmonton
It is disgraceful and pathetic to know that mankind has reached a time in life where murder and killing can go on for so long and nobody do or say anything.We are at an age where we ARE SUPPOSE to look back in the past and learn from the mistakes we have made. Instead, we continue to watch as Israel bombs Lebanon and tears the country apart killing children and innocent civilians. When are we going to look at this and actually do something about it? George Bush remembers what the Lebanese recently went through to get Syria out of Lebanon to form an independent democracy. Now he is saying the Lebanese are supporting them? This is a war George Bush backs up completely so he can divide and conquer the Middle East.
Once again, history repeats itself proving man will learn nothing from his mistakes.
Posted August 4, 2006 01:14 AM
mark
calgary
Canadians have no pretence for sitting in judgement about the state of affairs in the Middle East. Ours is a country that was created largely by the violent appropriation of land and resources by overwhelming military force and has committed countless acts of genocide and terrorism in the process.
The aboriginal population of this territory continues to live in substandard conditions and suffers significant racist discrimination. Does anyone remember the national response to the Oka crisis? How does one presume the Canadian government and military would react to a single Katyusha attack on its territory by, say, the Six Nations, let alone hundreds of rockets fired daily into civilian areas? One can debate the causes of strife and attempt to simplify the issues by laying blame on one party or another, but truly at this stage there is no real solution. Jews, Christians and Muslims have been fighting wars for millenia. How tragic that what each considers its Holy Land is so consummately unholy in its butchery and human slaughter. Israel was primarily created to prevent the continual murder and oppression of the Jews, and in turn, Hamas and Hizbollah were born of the ensuing holocaust against the Palestinian Arabs. Christian and Muslim nations have been arming and financing the different parties all along. Each perceives the struggle as one for survival, and each has as its stated aim the ultimate destruction of the other. There can be no negotiating under these circumstances.
Human history has been an endless succession of war and degradation - no nation that I can think of is innocent in this regard. Perhaps John Lennon is truly the "prophet" of our times in that he rightly recognised that there can be no peace until humanity frees itself from the twin shackles of slavery to religion and nationalism, possibly two of the most evil and mindless human creations ever, and probably the root causes of most of the worlds most savage and bloody cataclysms.
Posted August 3, 2006 10:09 PM
george
bc
Hezbola doesn't want to stop what they started, Isreal doesn't want to stop, the UN let the terrorists build up these huge rocket reserves so tell me why should we stop this only to have it start all over again. Let them fight to the end, there is no reason for the world to get involved.
Posted August 3, 2006 08:52 PM
Jako
I loved the lines about the boys "that someday if they choose to wear “real” camouflage, will they remember running down the street laughing or will they remember the sounds of war." I assume that the message is that war begets war and that Israel not only can not prevail, but is making new enemies every time it defends itself.
Wrong, Nothing is farther from the truth the facts speak otherwise. That is what was said at the beginning of the intefadah, when dozens of Israelis were hit every month by suicide bombers, a good adaptation by Israel to the techniques of the killers reduced the numbers of innocent killed by a huge margin in spite of the fact that CBC types wanted us to believe otherwise.
Israel seems to have successfully defended itself against suicide bombers and I will trust that they know what to do in this case against Hezbollah. No evidence exists that Israel has ever had any friends in the Arab world, They can not make more enemies than they already have in Islamdom.
I think that the record shows that Israelis are hardening because of repeated attacks by Arabs of all stipes, and we should worry more about that because there was a peace movement in Israel now its gone, they seem to have the ability to do a lot more damage than Hezbollah, boys in Israel under attack will probably remember the sound of the katyushas when they wear their camouflage.
Posted August 3, 2006 07:54 PM
Sima
Vancouver
"As far as the comments about the evacuation, I am sick and tired of Canada being the welcome mat for the entire world to walk all over. It is time the government recinded dual citizenship. You either are Canadian, or you are not. No more hyphenated Canadians."
Dear Charles
I have to say, as a Indo-Canadian born and raised in Canada, that is about the most un-Canadian thing I have ever heard. Are you sure that you're in the right country? Because the Canada I know, believes in multicultural backgrounds and celebrates different heritages. You do not. As for being a welcome mat, I simply do not agree. We are just simply more accepting and openminded, that does not make us push overs in any regard. We hold ourselves to a higher moral standard, and while I may respect your views and your right to voice them, I do not, in any way, agree with my country being affliated with such biased closed-minded opinions. What Canada do you come from my friend?
Posted August 3, 2006 05:48 PM
Charles
All of you people who condem Israel for taking the land from the Palestinians seem to conveniently forget that Egypt and Jordan took large sections of land as well that was supposed to be a part of the new State. I don't you see any of you crying for them to return it.
The Geneva convention is a complete and utter joke. All of you expect Israel to adhere to it, but not Hezbollah. I still see few people who condem Israel also condem Hezbollah for the same actions. The rockets fired by Hezbollah are specifically aimed at civilians, not military.
This is what I want to hear in the future.
::: The Geneva Conventions were intended to protect CIVILIANS from un-uniformed militias, acting in dishonor, hiding amongst them - endangering their lives. If civilians allow this to happen, then civilians will be destroyed along WITH them.
:: Fighting against such an opponent, we are not obligated to follow the Geneva Accords, and thus - Countries that harbor/allow un-uniformed geurrilla groups to attack other countries from within their borders will face serious consequences with the possibility of suffering many civilian casualties unless they act to halt such action.
:: in short - when unable to tell the difference between a 'militia member' and a 'civilian' - then all peoples will become 'unidentified combatants'. Countries wishing to protect their civilians should act to discourage such dis-honor that puts innocents in peril. This is what the geneva conventions were intended to do. Ignoring the conventions changes the rules of engagement for everyone.
Posted August 3, 2006 05:29 PM
Bill
BC
The only person I've seen making much sense lately is Queen Noor of Jordan. Certainly not our PM.
The underlying issue and the reason we have this group of "terror" in the first place, is the long standing and valid grievences of the Palistinians.
Until their genuine issues are seriously addressed and resolved by the West, we will continue to have a growing breeding ground for more resistance fighters/'terrorists' in the Arab world. Drain the swamp and you take the wind out of the extremists sails.
I sincerely hope Canadians retain their recollection of Harper's biased stance when the next election comes along, and are not placated by some new carrot or manipulated once again by Bush/Harper's PR team into voting for this neo-con twice.
Lest we forget, if Harper was elected prior to the Iraq war, Canadian troops would be in the midst of that unnecessary tinderbox as well as in the escalating mission in Afghanistan!
Posted August 3, 2006 04:49 PM
Mary Ann
Ontario
I am not a Hezbollah nor Israeli government sympathizer. I did not come from an Arabic nor Caucasian decent either. I am just a human being who values life more than anything else in this world. Those "not innocent" women and children in Qana and those "canadian evacuees" need not to be condemned by people like Charles simply because they value life the way I do.
Posted August 3, 2006 03:00 PM
Nick
Oakville
Regarding Susan Brown’s comment on Harper:
I'm about as fiscally & socially conservative as any Canadian can get – likely more than you. Thus, I was very happy to see the Liberals get voted out of office and welcomed Harper & gang. HOWEVER, fiscal & social conservatism is separate & distinct from Harper's Middle East policy.
I am terribly disappointed in Harper's lack of leadership on this issue as he's simply following the government's historical support of Israel & the powerful Jewish lobby (see Larry Zolf’s column: http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_zolf/20060717.html) rather than showing leadership for what is morally & ethically just: standing up for the embattled people of Lebanon.
Just because you supported Harper’s other fiscal & social platforms doesn’t mean that you should have blind faith in everything he does. This is ridiculous! Supporting Israel’s reprehensible actions is a complete disregard for humanity and all things decent. I’m sure your views wouldn’t be so righteous if Canadian suburbs were being bombed by Israeli pilots flying American-made fighters fueled by misappropriated American tax dollars.
Posted August 3, 2006 12:30 PM
Ryan
Winnipeg
Some of you folks should finish the sixth grade before pouring emotional fallacy into a poorly written response. I'm eyeing you Steve and Charles--if you want to seize the more "civilized" aspects of our culture, than you should learn your ABC's.
Posted August 3, 2006 11:40 AM
Susan Brown
ont
To the people that are currently moaning over the position of Harper ( ...had we known we would not have voted for him...) Well DUH!
We call him Stephen W. Harper in our house for a reason.
Posted August 3, 2006 10:18 AM
Mike Lemay
Moncton
I find it disturbing that the wholiest of places on earth face the fiercest wars in the name of religion.
Maybe religion is the problem and peoples need to impose it on others is the problem.
Posted August 3, 2006 07:12 AM
joy
edmonton
-you could see the same little boys in
any conflict. many canadians today
remember being starving children in Holland,
or in korea, bosnia, greece&turkey etc.
--the history of this current conflict is
very old and very complicated to most
of us here in Canada.
As a canadian, I'm very proud of how
my PM set up the evacuations etc.
it is important to get canadians out of
danger---and canada is particpating in
plan for cease fire.
and i hope those little boys were running
for the boat to canada.
Posted August 3, 2006 03:03 AM
Charles
I don't believe every word the Israelis say. I am not a religious person, and I don't care about this conflict from a religious standpoint.
I am simply poiting out a fact that exists in Lebanon, Afghantistan, Iraq and elsewhere. Many of the people who live there that people refer to as "innocent civilians" are in fact not. They know where Insurgents, Taliban fighters, Hizbollah fighters ect are. They do nothing about it. They might not condone it explicitly, but they implicitly which doesn't absolve them.
Even in postings here, I see a lot of Lebanese supporters denounce Israel, but say nothing against Hezbollah. If you honestly feel that Hezbollah is a decent, upstanding group than you will get no sympathy from me.
As far as the comments about the evacuation, I am sick and tired of Canada being the welcome mat for the entire world to walk all over. It is time the government recinded dual citizenship. You either are Canadian, or you are not. No more hyphenated Canadians.
Posted August 3, 2006 01:23 AM
Tim
Vancouver
If we follow Charles' logic than if someone decided to fire rockets from the building Charles, or any of us, lived in into a US city near the border then the US military would be justified in bombing not only the building but other "strategic" sites such as bridges, hydro stations, gas stations, military bases and other locations.
Right on Charles. I agree with you... NOT!
Posted August 3, 2006 12:43 AM
Tim
Vancouver
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060726&articleId=2824
Is there a relationship between the bombing of Lebanon and the inauguration of the World's largest strategic pipeline, which will channel more than a million barrels of oil a day to Western markets?
Virtually unnoticed, the inauguration of the Ceyhan-Tblisi-Baku (BTC) oil pipeline, which links the Caspian sea to the Eastern Mediterranean, took place on the 13th of July, at the very outset of the Israeli sponsored bombings of Lebanon.
One day before the Israeli air strikes, the main partners and shareholders of the BTC pipeline project, including several heads of State and oil company executives were in attendance at the port of Ceyhan. They were then rushed off for an inauguration reception in Istanbul, hosted by Turkey's President Ahmet Necdet Sezer in the plush surroundings of the Çýraðan Palace.
Posted August 3, 2006 12:39 AM
Charlie
It seems in this conflict that there is one bottom line to remember: Hezbollah's military strength is a joke compared to Israel's, yet IDF continues to attack positions in Lebanon as if it were fighting an opponent of comparable strength. Palestinian civilians are dying at a rate maybe 20x that of Israeli ones. Human Rights Watch has thus far found little evidence to show that Hezbollah is using human shields, and in the past week an Israeli judge decreed that IDF should flatten Lebanese villages because civilians who remain after warnings to leave must be Hezbollah sympathizers (see the Aug. 1 report on Human Rights Watch website). It is clear that from the start IDF has been attacking Lebanese targets ruthlessly and indiscriminately, the UN has a chance to prove it can act justly and quickly by putting an end to this slaughter in the coming days.
Posted August 3, 2006 12:14 AM
MaryAnn
Ontario
Charles...do you really believe every word Israel officials say? Open your eyes mister and be informed with the other side of the story before you make such hurtful comments. Those people have the right to live just like you do.
Posted August 2, 2006 09:20 PM
Back home (Canada)
Winnipeg
To all you bleeding heart supporters of Hizballah, where will you go when they take over our hospitals and schools? If you're not a shi-ite then you have to go to "public" hospitals and schools. You think we have a crapy system now. Ha!!
Thank you to my Canadian government for standing up against the Hizballah terrorists.
Posted August 2, 2006 08:09 PM
Arman
Mississauga
How many wars do we have to witness, how many dead children and how many villages burned do we have to see until we realize this is not OK!
How long are we willing to accept this, who is going to help the innocent and who is going to punish the Monsters?
We all take the freedom for granted, what if that freedom is no more, what if we become one day innocent people buried under the rubble, and what then.
Then is too late!
We all love freedom and we have to say it and show it to the world and to the governments, we have to show them that we no longer want to play the lamb and wolf games.
NO War is a good war, no one can justify spilled blood no matter what religion or nationality.
Posted August 2, 2006 08:03 PM
C Church
Chomedey
Wow, Charles you sound like a hate filled person. No heart?
You should read the articles published. Most of the innocent we speak of are children. Did they vote for Hezbollah? No! Did those children chose to take shelter under that building in Qana? NO!
I am not a religious person, I am a moral person. And from this stance, I beleive that if Israel is having trouble with it's neighbours, they should try to become better neighbours themselves.
As for paying to help the evacuees, evacuations don't happen that often.
This year, as in past, our government will puts MORE money in the pockets of CEOs of large corporations, than they will spend on this evacuation.
Personally, I am happier knowing that my tax dollars are helping less fortunate people, than paying for some fat cats cottage.
Posted August 2, 2006 08:02 PM
sana
mississauga
to Nick from Oakville thank you. and to add to what you've said: christians also live there they are suffering and being killed. there are so many christians fighting for freedom along with their muslims brothrers, are they terrorists? absolutely not. i think they all are freedom fighters who have pride and can never accept any more humiliation, destruction and killings by the israelies. please check this link to get more info:
www.plands.org/articles/7.htm
Posted August 2, 2006 07:14 PM
E
Winnipeg
Where are the boys fathers?? Ever wonder why most of the deaths reported in Lebanon are women, children, and elderly?
Harper keep up the good work. We must all stand against Hezbollah and it's terror.
Posted August 2, 2006 06:19 PM
Anne
Ottawa
According to Human Rights Watch reported by Reuters today, the Qana death toll is much lower (it's reported at 28) - however, it's still too high! According to the report, 16 were children. Why didn't the Hezbollah get these children out prior to the bombing - they must of known that their area was a major target to get bombed! Surely, they should have got these children out to safer areas of Lebanon or Syria.
It's such a shame to see innocent children being used as sacrificial lambs in this stupid political game over a few acres of land! These macho men need to swallow their huge egos and start to think about what they have done. The blood is on Hezbollahs hands and the Lebanese government's hands.
Posted August 2, 2006 05:58 PM
Jenna
Canada
The Infrastructure is ruined and the war has made Lebanon virtually unlivable.
Israel's bombs have not only ruined an entire nation and it's infrastructure, but it is on its way to destroying more and more every day.
The world's eyes are open.
Who is going to stick up for the innocent people... who is going to defend and protect the innocent in LEBANON?
U.N. - PLEASE HURRY !!
SANCTIONS SHOULD BE PLACED ON ISRAEL AND SOON !!
Posted August 2, 2006 05:26 PM
Charles
I keep seeing the words "innocent civilians" when people refer to the victims in Qana who were killed by the Israeli strikes.
I am sorry to have to be the one to point this out, but anyone living in a building that also serves as a launch point for rockets is not "innocent".
I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for them, or for anyone else lost a loved one, yet still stands behind Hezbollah. The moment they do so, they cease to be "innocent civilians" and become enemy combatants.
The same logic applies to all the "Canadians" who had to be evacuated. If you don't live here, and pay taxes here you have no right to ask for help, no matter what passport you happen to hold for emergencies.
I applaud the official government stance on the entire conflict.
Until I see Lebanese ex-pats in Ottawa marching to denounce Hezbollah, I will continue to look the other way when I see them march to protest Israel defending itself.
Posted August 2, 2006 04:51 PM
Ena
Canada
For Steve...I can't belive how mean you are it is sooo sad to read what you wrote... I am arab christian from Nazareth and I never saw young arab holding guns I saw a jews girls in their teens signing on missiles to go blow the lebanese children to cut their heads arms, and legs.Israel and USA are the biggest terrorists organization..and israel doesn't want peace because with peace the usa will stop sending them money and the state of israel will collapse..All I want is peace and I felt very sick today from hearing a radio show on cbc about the situation and I could tell that whoever made the show were on the israeli side...I don't why the injustice is coming to this canada I came to find freedom and get away from the racism in israel.
Posted August 2, 2006 04:39 PM
Nick
Oakville
It's surprising that not one of the posters has addressed the issue of root cause. While we can debate right vs. wrong between the current Israel vs. Hezbollah confict, until we examine the reasons behind the issue a meaningful discourse will not prevail.
Let's face it, every non-Jew in and around Israel has either been repressed or wiped-out since 1948. Israel, by it's very charter is a Zionist state that provides equal rights only to those who are Jews. Everyone else is secondary. If you protest, then you are labelled an anti-Semite, racist or even better, a "terrorist". However, state-sponsored slaughter of civilians in Jenin, Quana and a host of other villages is "OKAY". Just because the bombs are launched from an American made F-15 doesn't mean it isn't terrorism.
Treat people with dignity and equal rights under law and you will remove the motives for terrorism. Keep stealing people's land and killing their babies, then you must be prepared for consequences. Would you let someone rip down your home, build a house on your property and kill your family without retribution?? Would you consider yourself a terrorist for retaliation? I think not.
Posted August 2, 2006 04:07 PM
Tharin Charania
Canada has always promoted peace yet Stephen Harper has told the world that Canada takes the exact same position as the United States Of America in the middle east conflict. I know that hezbollah is an armed terrorist orgainization and must be stopped, however Canadians must take their own diplomatic action. Canada should encourage peace, not let George W Bush speak for us. Stephen Harper does not speak for Canadians and has not showed the world what Canada's opinion on this crisis is. Peace is obtained without violence.
Posted August 2, 2006 03:55 PM
Hamada
Toronto
Steve of Vancouver,
"I am surprised how restraint Israel is - any other country would set up a 100 km buffer and mine it"
perhaps you should go live in Gaza Strip before you talk about restraint.
Sure Israel has a superior army and could wipe out Gaza and Lebnon if they wanted, but all that would do is create more hate... The road to peace is through co-operation. World says democracy must prevail in the middle-east. Palestinians hold an election, Hamas wins, the world turns on Palestian and with hold contributions... Its a joke. Let democracy take its course...
But really before you speak ... watch news from the other side...
Posted August 2, 2006 03:41 PM
Devin Goss
Calgary
I find it absurd that the government of Canada, among others, can state that 'the Lebanese government must take action to remove Hezbollah from it's southern regions'. If you've been following the news in the region for the last 20 years you know that the Syrian government has previously, and continues to, manipulate Lebanese politics in a major way. How then can our Prime Minister claim that the solution to the conflict is for the Lebanese military to take action against Hezbollah, who is known to be funded by Syria? In other words, Canada's real stance is that it knows Lebanon is helpless to remove Hezbollah at this point but that if Lebanon wants our support it is what we require them to do.
Posted August 2, 2006 02:16 PM
anny
ottawa
I don't think they will be a lasting peace with guns and violence. I agree with Sima, the real true dimocracy and diplomacy resolve the problem. Still, I always ask myself who is the terrorist? I think both of them are and civilians on both sides are paying. Canada should not support this war and we sould not pay our taxes for the governement to help pay bombs against one nation when half of the world is demanding peace and a cease-fire. We should instead have real and good health services in Canada as we know how much crappy it is.
Posted August 2, 2006 01:31 PM
Eva Sairan
Ottawa
see: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html
I quote Haaretz, word for word:
Header: [Israel’s Foreign Minister Tzipi] Livni: Qana attack led to turning point in support for Israel. Haaretz. Last update - 21:04 01/08/2006
“As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.
It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.
The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.
The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.” [end quote]
There you have it from the horse’s mouth. History, indeed, repeats itself. The same claims and the same retractions as were presented 10 years ago when Israel killed 106 civilians who had taken shelter in a UN compound in Qana. Or, indeed, ever since 1948.
Posted August 2, 2006 01:00 PM
dee
Toronto
Sat, the bombing is horrible and both sides are responsible. I have driven through the south of Lebanon and through the Bekaa and feel sad for the destruction. But during the many times that I have done this (even pre-Israeli pull out) I was most disturbed that I saw many ‘children’ had already chose (or were taught) to wear camouflage and play with toy mock ak47s. Your ‘someday’ is already here. 'I, along with a good portion of the world, watched the horrific pictures that came out of Quana.' I question the accuracy, yes people have died, but careful of the Hezbollah-wood propaganda and their Syrian and Iranian puppet masters. More concerning is the lack of human rights in Iran for example today, 'Parents of Iranian dissident held', returning because of their sons death in custody in Iran. Think of our own, the death of Zahra Kazemi. This is an example of things to come if the Hezbollah is not disarmed and won over to a moderate way. Not all in Lebanon’s’ south are conniving and manipulative but following one leader blindly and forcing others into obedience leads to distruction. Only when people are allowed to question the leaders and debate issues does the best for all happen, bombs, guns and thuggery are not the answer. Peace for ALL in the M.E.
Posted August 2, 2006 12:52 PM
Nadia Seifeddine
The crisis in the Middle East is escalating and will only generate more anger and more conflict. People are forgetting that innocent lives are being lost and a country's vitality is being demolished. Instead, they are playing the blame game and wondering who is going to pay for the evacuation process. I am absolutely disgusted at what society is concerned about and it's time for Canada to call for a ceasefire. There is no military solution to this issue.
The only solution for Canada is to get rid of Harper.
Posted August 2, 2006 12:37 PM
Jesse Farkas
Toronto
Those little boys might remeber either the war or running down the street, but the issue is now and the consequences are now, not when the boys grow up. It is unfortunit that mothers fathers children and so on have to be caught in the middle, but one must understand with a state the size of Israel, and the number of countries that wish it was wiped off the map, means that the IDF has no other choice then to flex its power, destroy Hezbollah and prove to the world that Israel will not stand for anything. Keep the kids inside.
Posted August 2, 2006 12:34 PM
Steve
Vancouver
CR...I agree with you 100%
I lived in the Middle East for several years and I found people in there are full of hate.
But a lot of them do not know why they hate. "Israel invades us" but they do not ask why they invade. They have been defending them selves since 1948. I am surprised how restraint Israel is - any other country would set up a 100 km buffer and mine it.
We see on the news Arab children with machine guns, but the world (and especially Canadian news agencies) say nothing. We are so PC to the point we tolerate the untolerable. We allow pedophiles out of prison and terrorist to run free (Air India). We as Canadian have become to intellectually nieve, we ignore and try to hug the evils in the world.
We presently need a right winged government who has a drop of common sense. Give Harper a chance as he is doing a better job then anyone else would.
Posted August 2, 2006 11:42 AM
Brian Smith
toronto
On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel's
independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben
Yehuda Street, in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four
people were killed, and hundreds were wounded. Thus, it is obvious that Arab
terrorism is caused not by the "desperation" of "occupation", but by the VERY
THOUGHT of a Jewish state.
So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and
done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and
defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of
religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time to all stand up, and support and
defend the state of Israel, which is the front line of the war against terrorism.
(part 4) end
Posted August 2, 2006 11:38 AM
Steve
Halifax
After going through the various comments on the various reports on this site, I cannot believe the ignorance of some of the commentators. Israel vs. Hezbolah...Jew vs. Muslim....the West vs. Arab...it is these polarizations and blame-games that are the cause of this and most conflicts throughout the world.
I had the opportunity of living in Russia and met many Arab's, mostly Syrian and Jordanians, going to school there. Of course the cultural differences are there, but overall, I found them to be very hospitable, friendly and open to discussion of some serious topics. Furthermore, anyone of the Jewish faith I know is equally approachable and rational.
These are two strong and historic cultures, within which are various sub-cultures, being dominated by militaristic forces beyond the control of the average citizen. Neither "nation" is innocent and both are to blame. And the simplistic approach of us vs. them being held by Olmert, Bush, Nasrallah, Amadinejad can only lead to one outcome...more bloodshed of the average citizen.
I am not one for quotations (especially from Hollywood) but Denzel Washington sums it up well in my opinion..."In this day and age, the real enemy is war itself"
Posted August 2, 2006 10:21 AM
Cchurch
Laval
The hidden truth is that to the people at the top, the very rich(ie: Governments, major corporations, etc..), we and our children are expendable and of no consequence. At this time the children and innocent people of Lebanon and Israel are expendable and of no consequence.
These people in high places want MONEY, wealth and lots of it, wether it comes from oil, land, military, it doesn't matter. They hide thier intentions and agendas, and many beleive what they say, because they want to beleive that the people they support at the top have good intentions.
I am certain that Harper is receiving some kind of benefit, from the US and Israel, for his support.(It would be interesting to know what?)
Had Canadians know that Harper would have taken the stance he has, prior to his election, I am certain he would not have been elected.
As our leader he is creating a false image of Canadians and what Canadians wants. He is not representing the majority of Canadians and as such it will cost him. He must be getting something good from the US, to make it worth it!
Shame on Harper, and shame on us if we do not stand up for the lives and futures of these children.
Posted August 2, 2006 10:12 AM
Paul
Stratford
Thank you, thank you, thank you Canadian government for not playing the Liberals or NDP's game of sitting on the fence trying to please all sides ! You have made a clear stand for democracy, you have made a clear stand to support those that would stand up and defend themselves against violent acts of murder and terror. I hope and pray for the day when we can all let go of anger, bitterness and resentment, these are the fuel behind violent aggression and hatered. May we all embrace forgiveness and unity making the CHOICE to put others before ourselves and serving in love and respect. Those that choose this difficult road NEVER lose !
Posted August 2, 2006 09:27 AM
Rob M.
kingston
I have read most of the comments on this site over the last couple of days and find that we all want the same thing but don't know how to get there. There seems to be an agenda that is being met, but whose is it, I don’t think we will ever know.
I feel for the people of Middle East as they struggle for their lives and pray for their safety. I wonder if there will ever be lasting peace in that region; I have my doubts, especially if the US keeps their nose in it.
The world needs something to be proud of and I think Canada can be the example.
We as Canadians have a chance to be a world leader and show how to save another country from the US and others who think the world should be just like New York City. We have this opportunity today; I think we should start negotiations on the possibility to have Cuba become apart of Canada. This will save the people of Cuba much heartache and piss the Americans off to no end.
If Fidel dies the US will roll over that country in a second, that would be that same as Saddam did in Kuwait, but in the honour of democracy, what a bucket of crap. The US only sees oil.
At least Canada can offer education, health care and an economy that will flourish because we would then have an island in the sun for all of us. Can you imagine all those tax dollars than would stay in the country? The only problem would be the stampede to live there by the 30 million Canadians trying to rush there.
As history has shown, the British went out to colonize the world, they messed every place they touched and now the US is trying to do the exact same thing, but even worse. You have to offer the people of these countries a better life, not just the theory of it. That goes for the terrorists also.
Come on Mr. Harper show the world what Canada stands for.
Posted August 2, 2006 09:09 AM
CR
Ottawa
All my life there has been violence in the Middle East. I do not believe there can be peace there. Therefore, I do not support any of my Canadian tax dollars going to Lebanon. Furthermore, everyone is attacking Mr. Harper, but I don't believe the Liberal Government would have done better. In fact I believe they would have mocked up the evacuation. The Liberal Government never did anything right the first time. The Lebanesse-Canadians choose to live there; why should I pay for their trip back to Canada?? All they're doing is complaining about the accomodation, instead of thanking us for rescuing them from there homeland for free!!!
Posted August 2, 2006 07:46 AM
Sima
Vancouver
I find this entry to be a true eye-opener for the reality of war. It was touching and I find myself asking those very questions. Will those boys flourish remembering the past times of their childhood or will they be taught, by those more aware of the suffering of their people in other areas, to talk of hatred and loyalty? Or moreover, will they remember this time as a time when the world had their eye on this place and did little or next to nothing to aid them, when the war finally comes upon their doorstep? I wish our leaders could ask themselves these questions. I agree with Blair that we are fighting a war of ideologies, but with democracy falling short in so many ways, the people of this region have few options as to what ideology to stand with. This war is not only taking place in the air, on the sea, or on the ground, its taking place in the hearts and minds of men. And it is in my opinion, that there, in the minds of those with little or no alternatives, is where we must make our points and views heard. You cant win this war with guns alone, its time for some REAL diplomacy.
Posted August 1, 2006 07:23 PM
john laww
Toronto
Given how perpetual chaos and violence has become the defining feature in much of the Middle East I'd wager on the latter.
Posted August 1, 2006 06:50 PM