Turning the corner in Iraq?
Comments (35)
Thursday, November 8, 2007 | 03:52 PM ET
By Henry Champ
Most people believe it was former British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli who first said "there are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics."
Mark Twain popularized the saying, of course. But my favourite quote has always been that of Lawrence Lowell, a former president of Harvard, who said statistics "are like veal pies, good if you know the person that made them and are sure of the ingredients."
In any event, on Monday, six American soldiers were killed in Iraq. That brought this year's American death toll in that poor country to 852, making 2007 the deadliest year for American troops since the conflict began in 2003.
Yet for some time now, President George W. Bush has been saying "freedom's happening in Iraq and we're making progress," adding Iraqi troops have been "taking their country back."
Ignoring the annual figures, Bush and the White House press machine have been stressing U.S. fatalities for the month of October. At just 38 dead, it was the lowest of the year and the lowest since March 2006.
The administration argues that this is not only good news but, even better, an improving trend. It may have a point.
In April 2007, when the big troop buildup — the so-called surge — was completed and the fighting against insurgents was the toughest, the American death toll was 104. In May, that shot up to 126 and it has been dropping steadily ever since.
More than numbers
These are all verifiable statistics compiled by the Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, a respected website that tracks military deaths.
There are also reassuring claims coming from within Iraq itself.
One of the key U.S. spokesmen there, Maj. Gen Rick Lynch, told Associated Press: "I've never been more optimistic than I am right now with the progress we've made in Iraq. The only people who are going to win this counter-insurgency project are the people of Iraq."
That same AP report also quotes Lt. Col. Val Keaveny, who is in charge of one of the airborne units, saying his group has lost only a single soldier in the past four months and that Iraqi citizens, both Sunni and Shia, are providing vital information that they hadn't in the past. "People are fed up with fear, intimidation and being brutalized," he said.
In Washington most observers now seem to believe the low October figure trumps the higher annual total because of the fatality trend moving lower.
In the media, there have been many recent stories talking of "success in Iraq" and of "turning the corner." There has also been a discernible muting of Iraq criticism on the campaign trail and the Bush administration is hoping the scheduled reappearance of the top Iraq commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker before Congress will further confirm this optimism.
More veal pies
But back to the top of this file and the subject of lies and veal pies.
At the same time as the casualty figures were being released, other numbers were being made public.
Iraq's Red Crescent Society, in their latest monthly report, said that 370,000 Iraqis have fled their homes recently to escape sectarian violence. All told, 2.3 million Iraqis have been displaced since the war began in 2003; 65 per cent of these refugees are children.
On Tuesday, the UN refugee agency estimated that between 1,000 and 2,000 Iraqis leave their homes each day for safer havens in the country or in neighbouring nations.
Most are driven out at the point of a gun, which is being carried by someone of a different sect.
This rearranging of Iraqi neighbourhoods has, according to many experts, a great effect on the dropping death toll. Having fewer mixed neighbourhoods to fight over means fewer acts of sectarian violence, at least for now.
It doesn't mean the root causes have disappeared.
The whole purpose behind the "surge" was to give the Iraqi government the breathing space to bridge sectarian divides. What appears to have happened is that local sheiks and warlords have gained political clout over smaller fiefdoms and may prove even harder for the central government to deal with.
President Bush seems to have admitted as much, saying "reconciliation at the national level hasn't been what we had hoped it would have been by now."
So far this month of November, 14 U.S. servicemen have been killed in Iraq.
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Henry Champ is CBC Newsworld's correspondent in Washington, D.C., delivering Canadian viewers the latest developments in the U.S. political arena. Recently, he has been a leading Canadian voice on coverage of the war on terrorism, the war in Iraq and the growing concerns over the Canada-U.S. relationship.
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Comments (35)
ds
newfoundland
I've heard that after 9/11 the US adapted an "Afganistan First" attitude for their planned reaction. All that time Bush has planned to do something in Iraq and the fact that he's way over his head right now shouldn't surprise anyone. The US entered Iraq injustly and now the insurgents are making them pay for it. Not to say I support either side in this, the whole thing should never have started in the first place. Does anybody still wonder why no WMDs were found? I'll give you an answer, there never were any. Don't believe anyone who says that the insurgents are hiding them or Saddam buried them in the desert. The only reason the topic was ever brought up as evidence to enter Iraq was because there wasn't enough evidence without it. Do you think congress would have approved a war against a "hostile nation" that only posessed small arms and armored vehicules? If they had, the US would be in dozens of Iraqs all over the globe!
Posted November 27, 2007 12:25 PM
Sue
ns
With reference to previous posts about similarities between modern America and Fascist regimes of the past, Jeff points out there 'is an opposition party' in the States....
Germany was, however, a fully functioning democracy up until 1930 or so. You maybe interested in Naomi Wolf's new book, Death of America, written as a result of her relation ship with a holocaust survivor who quite accurately pointed out the sequences of events which are eerily familiar to those before Hitler came to power. There are now 'lists' in the States of people such as peace activists/groups to impeach, etc. In one case she sites - a whole family, based on the father's work, prevents their free movement outside of the country. She does not directly state America will turn so radically into Nazi Germany, but that similar circumstances and events have been unfolding, thereby leading the country into fascism.
Posted November 27, 2007 09:33 AM
Don
Robt. of Toronto
The time frames you write about are disingenuous: the events you describe actually took place over a 20 year period where your timeline would suggest that those events were all within a short span.
Saying that Saddam used WMD against the Kurds is true enough, but I could also point out that the US used nuclear weapons not once but twice against Japanese civilians. Without WWll as the proper context you might think using nukes against civilians a more terrible crime than using small amounts of poison gas on a few villages in northern Iraq. In another instance you place the bombing of Saddam's nuclear facility as coming after the Gulf War. You and I know that simply isn't true: Israel bombed the facility long before Iraq ever invaded Kuwait. The two events are completely unrelated. What you propose is misleading at the least, a downright lie at most.
Iraq was so hobbled by 10 years of ruinous sanctions that she couldn't mount any sort of credible defense against invasion. In the same time frame the UN estimates that between 500,000 to a million children died in Iraq as a direct result of the sanctions. Saddam was far from the disruptive figure you paint him to be - rather he was a toothless tiger and everyone knew it. Gwynne Dyer posits that the US only invaded Iraq BECAUSE they were so militarily weak they couldn't put up much of a fight. No doubt he's absolutely spot on, especially when you compare Iraq's experience with North Korea's. NK has a nuke, an army, and a Chinese ally who kicked the stuffing out of the US in the Korean war. The US would be nuts to go against them again, and hasn't because they know they can't win. If Iraq had nukes, this war would never have happened, Because the US was so hot to invade Iraq I knew immediately and without need for any further proof that Iraq DIDN'T have the WMD the US said they did. Your attempt at pro US propaganda is all too transparent and laughable.
Posted November 13, 2007 01:50 PM
Don
Dr. J.C.
Saddam Hussein sent money to the FAMILIES of those suicide bombers because Israel flattened the homes of anyone attacking their country. He never sent money to the bombers themselves, only to those who suffered the loss of the family home. That in no way supports terrorism. It supports the homeless by affording them the opportunity to re-build shattered lives. What about the victims of the suicide bombings, you ask? No, he didn't: Saddam did not support innocent Israeli citizens maimed and murdered by Palestinian suicide bombers because Israel already has a ton of support in the west as it is. Palestine does not. The simple truth of the matter is that Saddam directly supported Palestinian families: as the leader of a secular government Saddam was as opposed to miltant Islamic extremism as much as anyone in the US government is today. Why? Because the same extremism that targets US interests is actively at war with secularism in the pan Islamic world, seeking, as it does, to install religious governments (just like the Taliban regime in Afghanistan) in their place. Given the opportunity to participate if he were alive today, Saddam would no doubt have joined the US in their war on terror if only to save his own skin, and by extension, his regime. He had no love for bin Laden's group at all, and worried so much about rising Islamic activism that he attempted to persuade extremists that he was a devout Muslim by reading the Koran aloud during speeches. No one was fooled in the slightest as his government continued it's course unchanged, yet the "spin was in" so to speak, all in an effort to save himself. Saddam never supported any network that would, or was likely to, pose a threat to his regime. That spec ifically and especially includes al-Qaida.
Posted November 13, 2007 01:29 PM
Jeff Wilson
Winnipeg
To Brian from Detroit:
There are indeed striking similarities between this Bush administration and the Facists of mid 20th century Germany, Spain, and Italy. May I also mention Hirohito's Japan and Stalin's CCCP, also of the mid 20th century.
However, for all the similarities, there is one very, very important difference:
There is an opposition party in W Bush's America. It has not been outlawed, and its members have not been arrested, tortured, and murdered like the opposition parties and their members of the above named countries. Nor, for that matter, like the past opposition parties and their members of Chile and Argentina, and the current opposition parties and their members of Pakistan.
This, I believe, makes a huge diffence!
It also begs a lot of questions:
What the bloody hell have the members of the Democrat party - ie: The legal and unfettered opposition party in America - been doing all this time?
Seriously! Why, after so much outright facist, illegal activity perpetrated by W Bush and the Republican party, and after so much time, have the Democrats not been able to stop them?
The Democrats have every, and I mean every means at their disposal!
Why have they been so useless in the face of it all?
To a very, very large degree, I consider the Democrat's weakness and uselessness to be a contributing factor to the mess America is now in!
But I won't be smug about it Brian, my American cousin. Up here in Canada, Her Magesty's Loyal Opposition, ie: Canada's opposition party: the Liberals, have only just recently, quite literally "sat on their hands!"
TWICE!!
Pretty useless, eh!?
Posted November 13, 2007 10:31 AM
Charlene Smith
Woodstock,Ontario
Dr. J.C.,
Is the occupation and conquering of any country legal anywhere?
Was it legal during the Spanish Inquisition?
What about the landing of Christopher Columbus and the eventual destruction and interment of the First Nations peoples to reservations?
What about the bringing of African Slaves to the U.S.?
The internment of the Japanese in Canada during World War 2.
What about the creation of the state of Israel, remember it never even existed.If you go back to the Bible,they were forced to wander because they were too arrogant to God.
You were asking about the legality of war.
See what happens when people decide to invade and conquer?
IF power is not kept in check,it corrupts and humanity is the ultimate losers.
The question now, is it too late in the world to stop what MAY ultimately be the destruction of us all?
Posted November 13, 2007 07:51 AM
Brian
Detroit
Now, go look at Fascist Italy, as well as Nazi Germany and Nationalist Spain and their ascendant precusors from as early as the late 19th century through about 1940, the similarities are stunning and chilling. The weird part is that they, the Hard Right, cannot see how they are in nature, form, structure and process fascist. One can see now how unstoppable the fascist juggernaut was that led to the descent of Spanish, German and Italian society into brutal, repressive and aggressive fascists states. Even with the hindsight of the catastrophe of early 20th century Europe right before our eyes, even with principled people opposing it and speaking out. It falls on deaf ears. My country seems lost to me. The American Experiment apparently is over.
Now watch the attacks of the Nicks of NYC and their ilk. Never any self-assessment or self-doubt or self-criticism. It's stunning and beyond comprehension. Great evil will be spawned from their twisted psychology and their blindspots.
Posted November 13, 2007 03:17 AM
Brian
Detroit
What's stunning and discouraging is how utterly different U.S. Conservatives see the same facts that everyone else is looking at. They are wildly stubborn, self-deluding, selective in their attention and selective in what they ignore. They are smug, condescending, and arrogant. They are pushy and domineering. They are willing to shamelessly attack and shout down their targets and enemies. The resort to lies, even when proven as lies. They think in slogans. They parrot their propaganda like colonial automatons of the Brog. They think it's better to win by any means than to be right and have integrity. They are willing to run rough-shod over anyone's and everyone's civil rights in the name of state security. The are willing to allow and even applaud the official use of torture, and imprisonment without charge, etc. of any perceived enemy or officially designated "bad people." They are self-serving and willing to resort to organized violence as it suits them and their objectives. They feel entitled and even called to dominate the course of world events - that means the course of the majority of the world's population and countries. They think that corporate control of production, distribution, and markets is the best of all possible worlds.
Posted November 13, 2007 03:15 AM
Dr. J. C.
I have a simple question, and no one has addressed it yet. People talk about an "illegal war". What is then a "legal war"?
Was the NATO attack on Yougoslavia legal or illegal? Which world forum approved it, and if not, were the leaders of Canada, Britain, USA, Belgium, France, and others, war criminals??
China has occupid Tibet for half a century after a miltary aggression. Was it legal?
Finally, many allege that Saddam was not linked to terrorism, If I remember correctly, he used to pay between $25,000 to $50,000 to the families of sucide bombers who killed civilians in Israel. The more victims, the higher the reward.
Was this terrorism "by proxy" or "brotherly love"?
Perhaps, this is not politically correct, but, hopefully, CBC will print the comment.
Posted November 13, 2007 01:57 AM
David
A brief recap:
The invasion of Iraq was based on lies and distortion of facts, as the country did not possess WMDs at the time of the invasion. International sanctions and inspections were slowly working and having effect. Deposing Saddam was a tacked-on goal, once it became evident that despite Bush's infamous declaration, combat operations had not ceased in Iraq even though Hussein had been unseated. There was no link between Saddam and al-Qaida. In short, there was no justifiable reason for the US to invade when it did.
Fast-forward to today:
The US is now entangled in Iraq like a single police officer trying to stop a 100-person riot. The original goals are almost irrelevant in the light of the mess that exists now. The whole approach and strategy must change, given that the framework for the initial invasion essentially no longer exists. "Turning the corner" is almost pointless. The conflict in Iraq will continue long after the US leaves. The US simply needs an exit strategy and will have to swallow the fact that this invasion failed and perhaps later, with better thought, planning, and no lies and distortions, they can truly help the situation.
Posted November 12, 2007 05:59 PM
keith
bc
it's amazing to read some of the pro-Iraq war supporters here who still are believers that Saddam promoted global terrorism.
This is a particularly crummy war for all involved. Pull the plug and let the people who actually live there decide by ballot or by gun which direction they want to go, not have it thrust upon them by Bush.
Go to Zellers, buy a US flag and burn a Star Spangled Banner today.
Posted November 12, 2007 01:30 PM
Jordan Thornton
Regina
"THE FIGHTING IN IRAK IS A LOST CAUSE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON"
That 'fixing' the country is a secondary consideration for criminals who started this War of Aggression (the Supreme International Crime, for which men were hung at Nuremberg) in order to control Middle Eastern oil, eliminate a supporter of the Palestinians in their struggle against Israeli Zionism, keep the region in turmoil, and to provide the Americans and Israelis with a forward operating base for further planned aggressions, covert and otherwise, thus raising the 'regional influence' of both countries.
(And 'Robt", we still don't know what actually happened on September 11, 2001, or more importantly, who was responsible. Gnash your teeth all you wish. The Government's Conspiracy Theory has been soundly disproven, and it has been able to answer to those asking questions and examining the evidence. And it's irrelevant to Bush/PNAC's long-planned war.)
Posted November 12, 2007 09:34 AM
FLORENT L'ESPERANCE
THE FIGHTING IN IRAK IS A LOST CAUSE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON {THESE FOLKS HATE THEIR COUNTRYMEN} I MEAN "SUNNI" & SHIITE INCLUDING THE KURDS IN THE NORTH WILL KILL EACH OTHER THE MINUTE THE TROOPS ARE EITHER GONE OR LESSEN IN NUMBER. THE U.S. CAN NOT STAY THERE FOREVER? THEN YOU'LL SEE THE BIGGEST MASSACRES HAPPENNING. MARK MY OPINION.
Posted November 10, 2007 09:57 PM
Don
Nick in NYC sees the Iraq war as justified, or at least is willing to act as an apologist in an atypical bourgeoise ideology where only America can or should cure the ills of the world. One terrorist takes refuge in Iraq therefore the entire country is forfeit. If that is a criteria, then what about the lovely fellow who blew up a Cuban airliner then took refuge in the United States? His friends and supporters include former president Bush. That must mean that America is a terrorist nation if it is true that anyone who supports terrorism automatically is one.
Iraq committed genocide against the Kurds which means they can and should be invaded. Yes, they did kill thousands using American-made weapons and protected by America (Ronald Reagan). I guess that makes America at least complicit in at least one genocide.
America has also committed crimes against her own people and destabilized the entire north and south american continent repeatedly: supporting fascist dictatorships in south america, financially and militarily supporting contra terrorists engaged in attacks on schools and medical centres. Now it is the sanctioned use of torture, Rendition, closed military tribunals without recourse to legal council or the fair application of law, the illegal wiretapping of US citizens...I could go on but what's the point? Monumental hypocrisy, ignorance and a stunning lack of moral principle rules America today. Some have taken offence to being classed as fascist, yet they share at least one commonality in that for both 1930s Germany and modern day America the end justifies the means.
Posted November 10, 2007 08:10 PM
Charlene Smith
Woodstock,Ontario
Nick of NYC,
I for certain would never take credit for anything the U.S. does,ever!
It was because of the U.S. and the U.S.S.R.'s political stance back in the 1960s,when I was growing up that was the reason I have watched world politics my WHOLE LIFE.
As I recall, it was also the U.S. that wanted to back out of the agreement signed with Russia to end Star Wars.
IF the U.S. would ever start listening to reason from anyone, back in the 1990 before Desert Storm, the Eastern scholars warned the WEST that they didn't understand Eastern politics.They shift with the sand.
Considering Osama Bin Ladan is linked to the Royal Family in Saudia Arabia,who are good friends with the U.S.,I would caution you to get more facts first.
General Scowcroft said the military was a masterpiece that Sadam Hussein had created.He went on further to say IF the Iraqi army hadn't been ill fed, tired and broken down, the U.S. would have lost a lot of men.
I forget who this interview was done with but it is on record somewhere.
Some of us get our news from many sources, not just CBC or the U.S. media.
Posted November 9, 2007 05:30 PM
Robt.
Toronto
The 9/11 attacks made it abundantly clear that Arab/Islamic terrorism (which existed before 9/11) needed to be dealt with decisively.
Therefore, it was necessary to ensure that the threats from rogue Middle East states which possessed WMD and/or sponsored terrorism were eliminated.
Hence, the Taliban, which hosted Al Quaida, had to be run out of Afghanistan and democracy needed to be introduced (which has happened although it both are tentative successes).
Iraq used WMD (poison gas) against its Kurdish citizens killing many and of course invaded Kuwait, bombed Isreal and was developing nuclear weapons before Isreal bombed its nuclear plant. Saddam Hussein has been eliminated as a perpetual threat.
Incidently, Libya, a former state sponsor of terrorism, has abandonned and its renounced its plans to possess nuclear weapons and sponsor terrorism.
That leaves Iran as the most dangerous state in the Middle East. Clearly, Iran is a destabilizing influence in Iraq but the situation in Iraq is improving.
We cannot expect events in this part of the world to proceed smoothly, quickly or painlessly.
Look how long it took to defeat fascism and Commuunism. Decades,hundreds of thousands of lives and countless dollars.
The democratization of the Middle East is an epoch-changing period in our history.
It will be filled with set-backs and cost many lives and billions of dollars - but if we persevere we will succeed and the world will be a much better and safer place.
Posted November 9, 2007 05:28 PM
Harold Hotham
I think Jeff Wilson raises a very valid point. I would like to extend that thought even further if I may.
What if the US "Stays the Course" and leaves after the Iraqis are able to "defend themselves"?
In my opinion, the possibility of continued war as an all out civil war that would expand to include the most of, if not entire Middle East would still occur. I see the strong possibility of a nuclear conflict as Israel gets dragged into something they really don't want; particularly if Pakistan gets pulled into the fray.
It really is a no-win situation for everyone; especially the innocents who are the first to suffer and to suffer the most.
Posted November 9, 2007 05:25 PM
Nick
NYC
DL,
Your use of the term "fascist" to describe the United States approaches the level of delusion. The so-called "neo-cons" to which you refer have been fighting to bring consensual government to countries whose previous governments were very close to fascist regimes (certainly Saddam's Iraq, with Afghanistan being more of a brutal theocracy).
The Iraq war was authorized by the American Congress using a list of over 20 writs of complaint. These included Saddam's crimes against his own people, crimes against his neighbors, and his support of terrorism worldwide.
It's important to take note of Saddam's attempts to assassinate former President Bush. In addition, on the terrorists implicated in the FIRST attack on the Trade Center, Abdul Rahman Yasin, was given safe haven in Iraq immediately after the attack.
The man who committed genocide against Iraqi Shia, dumped chemical weapons on the Kurds, invaded Kuwait, and support terrorism abroad is now dead -- his regime replaced by a fragile democracy. No thanks to Canada.
Now that the tide is turning, albeit in a modest way, will former opponents of the war start taking undeserved credit?
Posted November 9, 2007 02:18 PM
David
The US went into Iraq because Saddam was a nutbar and he had the potential to destabilize the entire middle-east. There is no doubt that was his aim and if he had been successful Europe would have been the unfortunate big loser because that's where they get almost all of their oil. The US doesn't and didn't purchase (yes purchase) oil from Iraq. They import from Saudi Arabia primarily in the region but more and more from Canada(we're number 2), the Caribbean and South America. They are also putting a lot of effort into developing their own renewable resources with biofuels and other renwable resources.
George W Bush would like nothing more than to have on his resume that he helped, aided by many other nations (most of them our allies) calm tensions down in the region creating an environment where people could live in peace with the freedoms many of us take for granted in Canada. It's unfortunate that some people hate the president of the USA, the leader of the free world (like it or not) to the point where they can't see the good that he is trying to do and seem to hope for his failure. Not once considering the cost in lives the world over.
If the middle east collapses, because of their oil and it's incredible influence on the global economy a third world war is pretty much guaranteed to be the end result along with the total collapse of the global economy. Humanity might never recover.
Afghanistan is just another part of the same fight. Think of that the next time you see one of our soldiers come home. Rememberance day is Sunday.
Posted November 9, 2007 01:16 PM
Tyson M
The Bush administration has been putting spin on every situation since they began their "war on terror", what makes us believe this will be any different?
The deadliest year for the U.S. military is 2007 yet because each death isn't as fiercely reported by the news as they were in 2005 & 2006 the American public has been lulled into a state of indifference.
As far as Iraqi deaths go, any lull in those is just temporary until the root cause has been resolved. Saddam Husein kept the peace by the end of a sword yet many more have died under this so called "freedom", perhaps the U.S. should have had a much better plan than their "make it up as we go" policy.
Posted November 9, 2007 12:19 PM
Chris
GTA
The link to this story from cbc.ca reads "Henry Champ: Are we turning the corner in Iraq?"
What do you mean "we"?
Posted November 9, 2007 12:10 PM
Geoff Small
Toronto
Bush's War in Iraq was, from it's true conception in early 2001 as a diversion tactic from his electoral fraud, a business venture. Even now, numbers and assessments coming out of the oval office are fudged, twisted, and misrepresented like poor quarterly earnings in order to pacify irate investors. Sadly, Bush and his cronies, like the criminals that ran Enron, have made their money from lucrative arms contracts and reconstruction sublets, literally valuing a single dollar over a single human life - and they have left America in the lurch.
It just goes to show how Bush has proven himself to be the most corrupt AND the most incompetent US president in their history.
It is a great pity that he and his collaborators will likely never be held accountable for their actions.
Posted November 9, 2007 12:00 PM
Ron MacDougall
The war in Afghanistan has cost Canada dearly in lives and money.
The deaths of 71 soldiers and a diplomat are, sadly, well known. The monetary costs are less well known, the full cost of the war will be 7.2 billon by March 2008.
That means that we are spending more than $100 millon every month on the war in Afghanistan.
Moreover, military spending is skyrocketing in Canada-we have moved from 16th to 13th highest in the world this year ( 6th highest in Nato)and our $18 billon defence is 27 per cent higher than the budget before September 11, 2001.In fact, when you adjust for inflation, we are now spending more on the military than at any time during the Cold War.
Despite their propaganda to paint an image of moderation, the Conservative goal to radically transform Canada remains the same: major tax cuts and social program cuts, privatization and deregulation, increased military and police spending, provincial offloading and deeper integration with Fortress America.
I wanted to take this opportunity of exposing, challenging the conservative goverment who advocates and extension of Canada's war in Afghanistan.
Posted November 9, 2007 11:57 AM
Jeff Wilson
Winnipeg
Nowadays, there seems to be 3 main types of thinking about America in Iraq:
1-Those who want America to leave Iraq today.
2-Those who think that America must stay because if America leaves now, Iraq will explode into unspeakable violence.
3-Those who, seeing the forrest for both the leaves and the trees, and hate war, just wish that America had never done it in the first place.
Well... Let's see whose right. Let's do a thought experiment:
Imagine if America picked up and left Iraq today.
Imagine what Iraq would look like tomorrow.
And the next week.
And in a year from now.
Imagine too what the entire area - ie: Iraq's immediate neighbors and environists, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Israel, or should I say: The Middle East - would look like if America just up and left Iraq today.
All of us and America have essentialy, only one thing to decide, when we and America really think about it: Should America stay or go.
Therefore, unless it doesn't matter to you what Iraq and The Middle East would look like should America decide to just go, I think it's only fair for those who are not on the: "stay the course" side, and who are not on the: "if only" side, to give us a picture of what you think Iraq and the Middle east would look like tomorrow, in a week, and in a year from now should America leave Iraq today.
What do you see when you immagine such a thing?
I see Hell on Earth.
And yet, I still think America should leave Iraq today.
Because it's pointless now. And that's no reason to send 18 year-old volunteers to their permanent disfigurement and death. No matter where they come from!
Posted November 9, 2007 11:48 AM
The Canadian Geezer
This is the terrible "Catch-22" that George Bush has led the Americans into .... I'm very sorry for the families of all who have died in this outrageous senselessness ...
When one reads the inane comments by the administration that are parroted by the media about the 'success' of the 'Surge' one is appalled .... I'm also deeply distressed by the sheer blindness of the American public to the brutality of facts that they are willing to avoid/deny regarding civilian death and displacement ...
In the words of Kurt Vonnegut "So it Goes" ...
Posted November 9, 2007 11:39 AM
Travis W
Toronto
Really it doesn't matter if at the end of this, Bush and Cheney and the their 'clique' get anything good out of it whether it be a "free Iraq", or just that the troops have to pull out because it just ended up being another Vietnam. Bush and Cheney and all the other Neo Cons who are responsible for going in, in the first place should have to answer to the American people and the world for creating this mess.
The Neo Cons who approved this "war" should be treated exactly like any other war criminals. Trial, verdict and sentencing. What I would give to see those people behind bars. I can see the media pictures now.
Posted November 9, 2007 11:33 AM
Adil
Toronto
This is all a smoke screen created by the increase in troop levels which by the way they cannot sustain.
The same militants have diverted their energy to Afhghanistan and Pakistan which means they will return to Iraq when the time is right. Unfortunately the world is in for a long fight.
The anger and disgust caused by this and the Israeli occupation will resonate in Muslim lands for generations to come.
We need to re-evaluate the greed and corruption that dictates world politics it seems there are no good guys anymore.
Posted November 9, 2007 11:29 AM
PH
Montreal
Wow,are we now judging success in world affairs only by how many American soldiers are killed in combat. Tell me, have you worked out how many civilians and U.S. Army personnel will be dying painful deaths from exposure to the depleted Uranium they use in arms for the next 50 years? This war has been an ecological and human disaster. There is no turning point when we can say things are better than before the invasion. The whole region has been poisoned for generations to come. So I guess from that standpoint, if that, along with the bankrupting of the American economy was the goal, mission accomplished!
Posted November 9, 2007 11:05 AM
Jay
Calgary
While I agree that the US is morally wrong in what they have done and continue to do...DL...that's a little extreme and absurd and downright disrepectful to the victims of the Nazi regime don't you think? Its people like you and your comments that detract credibility from anit-Bush supporters.
Posted November 9, 2007 10:59 AM
R.M. Aniol
Stratford
I note the head writer on the main webpage though not Henry Champ uses the royal "We". "We", thanks to Liberal PM Jean Chretien, are not in Iraq. Let's leave the hawkish personal inclusiveness to CNN.
Posted November 9, 2007 10:46 AM
Justin
Edmonton
I believe the United States crossed a threshold regarding the war with Iraq that will scar it's international reputation far deeper and longer than any of its previous operations. The current administration bullied and cheated its way into power (arguable, but most outsiders see it as such), and has gone out of its way to do what it wants, when it wants.
9/11 was horrible. Some of the reactions to 9/11 are comparibly just as horrible, if not worse.
Posted November 9, 2007 10:34 AM
David Silver
Winnipeg
To dl in Sk; Comparing the USA of today with Nazi Germany is loaded and ludicrous. While America may be moving towards a police state and has started a war of aggression, the comparison ends there. The US has yet to intentionally, systematically and industrially murder 10 million people in gas chambers, there is still a political dialogue, a dissent does not get you thrown in a death camp. Eavesdropping and state harassment are not the same thing as execution and it is delusional to compare the two. By demonizing America, you sully the debate on the seriously troubling actions of America’s most incompetent regime since the infamous Warren G Harding.
Posted November 9, 2007 10:07 AM
Geoff Paterson
Toronto
Perhaps this new spin on reduced casualties for the month of October is a prelude to moving the battle lines across to Iran. The quagmire is so deep now that there will be no significant withdrawal from the region, and not even a Democratic sweep in the next election will do anything to remedy the situation.
Posted November 9, 2007 10:06 AM
dl
sk
Iraq will not allow occupation. The fight will never end until the occupiers leave. Geoge Bush and Dick and all the Neo cons should be put on trial for war crimes. The United States is now a fascist regime, no different than Germany in the 30's and 40's.
Posted November 9, 2007 08:28 AM
Charlene Smith
Woodstock,Ontario
Personally I believe one dead person is one too many whether they are a service person or civillian.
We have to ask ourselves again,why is the U.S. there?
From a Canadian perspective,I don't believe anyone knows.
It began as WMD and the toppling of Sadam Hussein,the brutal dictator.
From there they tried to link Sadam and Osama Bin Ladan.
When that didn't work it became to free the Iraqi's from terrorists.
Instead from what I can see, they have no clear idea of what they are even there for,unless it is control of oil.
It reminds me of a" make it up as you go" and JUST MAYBE,they'll find something to make it all worth while.
All that I can see is the destruction of a country and a power vacuum.
Since Israel is so friendly with the U.S.,I expect soon to hear the U.S. and Israel have drawn up new plans for Israel to somehow take part of Iraq or send the Palistinians there.
Who knows anymore but I really wouldn't be surprised but the U.S. better also recognize that there are a whole lot of angry countries watching them and their arrogance.
It bodes well for no one in the world.
Posted November 9, 2007 08:14 AM