Citizen Bytes

It would be an exceptionally sad day for Judaism when protesting the recent actions of the Israeli government in Gaza make you a bad Jew.

typical university logic - educated beyond his intelligence.

Hey David, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's a difficult and divided time - again.

I can understand why you would think being at a pro-Palestine rally would make you uncomfortable. But I think that if there were more Jews like you, there would be fewer desperate cries of Down With Israel.

My father was Palestinian and I am born in Montreal. I've travelled quite a bit in the MIddle East and sometimes have lived and travelled with Jews while doing so. There is no, or very little (certainly less than in Europe) nascent antipathy towards Jews in the Middle East. Granted, I am not Jewish, but I've only ever heard that people were curious and generous to them. However, aggressive Israeli policies have certainly screwed things up over and over again, making things very volatile politically. In my experience there are alot of curious, open-minded and warm-hearted Jews out there. Just like you.

We need people like you, people willing to look honestly at the post-colonial occupation of Palestine and call it as they see it. Just like we need more moderate Arabs to speak out about their hijacked societies.

Courage and peace,
Leila

David, very well said.
As someone who is not Jewish, I still completely agree with you.
Isreal has a right to exist, but the action from both sides of the border right now are deplorable.
Moderates, those who can think critically and look at both sides aren't widely sought after presently. There's too much of a predisposition to black or white.
I sometimes don't know WHAT to say, even to some of my friends. Facebook as an example, on one page I have a friend who supports the Palestinians. On the other, is a Jewish friend of mine posting the latest rocket attacks into Israel.
It's tough to know what to say when both sides aren't going to like it and you know they're going to use it against you.
My best to you, and hopefully this gets resolved.

What is wrong with the one-state solution? We say that it is the right thing for South Africa, why not for Palestine?

Majority rule in democratic elections. Referenda on choosing a name for the new state and how to modify the law of return.

Mr. Borzykowski seems like a nice enough person. Can't we disagree agreeably?

David, I don’t think you are the minority, even among Jews. In Israel, as you know, there is often a very healthy debate about these actions. Many people think that violence begets more violence, etc. The problem (and here I paraphrase my family in Israel) is that often the Diaspora, specifically American Jews, are often far more hawkish then Israeli's themselves. They have found a strange alliance with the end-times Evangelical Christians, such as George W. Bush, and this alliance has helped polarized opinions and debased the debate down to the same red state/blue state, left/right, liberal/conservative name calling garbage.

I think the saddest part of this conflict, is that the majority of Israeli's and Palestinians know what the final peace deal will look like, and can accept it; but the leaders on either side can not make the deal; they fear losing their power and they also fear assassination from the radicals. Just look what happened to Rabin (and would have happened to Arafat had they finalized the deal).

I am sorry. I do not believe there is any reason why a state should be governed by religion or religious groups.

Be it Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc...

Government are there to SERVE and PROTECT their population (and by that any population occupied by said state), be they of any religion or orientation and make economical accords and partnership with their neighbors to stimulate socially and economically both society and increase the bound between them.

Religion are used to explain life after death, give moral guidance and support to the community.

Most great christian errors have been done when the religion was at it's prime and still had big power within the Governments.

All great "Saints" are know for helping the world community not their flock only. Aids awareness, protecting the children and so many more causes...

Jerusalem is a world heritage site, it as so much geopolitical ties that for anyone to think they can claim it is outrageous. It belongs to humanity...

If the Jew nation really wants a country for their Church, they should do like the Vatican did and create a building size country where the religion can rule without any conflict outside it's doors.

David, while I could argue my own view that no country has a "right" to exist, that would ignore the main gist of your commentary, which is that we should never allow our selves to be blindly patriotic. In fact, I can think of nothing less patriotic, than flag waving for the sake of flag waving...it implies an assumption of superiority without having to justify the belief. I am better because I am American, I am right because I am Canadian, I am righteous because I am Jewish, Allah protects me because I am Muslim. I don't care which group you belong to, if you believe your tribe to be better than the other tribes, then start listing the reasons, otherwise accept that we're all on the same ride, holding on for dear life, hoping that we don't let go before the ride is officially over. Not one of us is in anyway better, superior, chosen or more blessed than anyone else.

But one thing is certain, a few more free thinkers like you and it would be virtually impossible to talk any of us into accepting war as a necessary evil (though evil it always is).

You are one fine human being my friend, regardless of being Jewish or Goyum!!!

Shalom, Salaam, God Bless

Mr. Borzykowski's premise is flawed. He writes, "Like any conflict and especially the Israeli-Palestinian one, there are two sides to every story, except it seems, among Jews."

If this statement is true then how does he explain organizations such as Jews for Justice for Palestinians? As far as I am aware there is no equivalent Palestinian organization that has been established in support of Israel. Could Mr. Borzykowski please tell me where I can find the Palestinians who are demonstrating against Hamas?

Mr. Borzykowski is entitled to his opinion. But I would take his opinion more seriously if he were to have a) stated the reasons he objects to the current IDF campaign in Gaza and b)put forward an alternative plan for Israel to address Hamas rocket attacks from Gaza. Mr. Borzykowski isn't a "bad Jew." I just wish he were a more diligent one.

Handsome David!

I really appreciate your thoughts as expressed in this article. You have changed my way of thinking.

I think that a lot of people, throughout history, have felt exactly the way that you do. What you are describing is not entirely unique to Israel or to Jewish persons.

We have all heard about how the “pendulum swings”. Over and over again, throughout history, reasonable people such as yourself, have found themselves suddenly isolated, almost abandoned, as popular opinion has swung in a extreme direction on one issue or another. In saying this, I do not want to compare the situation in Israel with any other, nor belittle your sentiments.

It is always easy to manipulate the masses, to radicalize a debate on any issue. Violence and fear will ensure that things remain radicalized. Other than some of principles promoted by Mahatma Ghandi, I am not sure what the surest way "back to reason" is.

I think that you should find the courage to attend both rallies. Both sides deserve reasonable people like you to stand up for what makes sense. Alternately, you know the saying: the absent are always guilty.

Please continue to reflect, to write and to speak on these issues. Don’t ever stop. You are entirely right in your thinking! I want to add that I feel it takes a very kind and generous heart to see complex and personal issues such as this clearly, as I believe you do.

Good courage to you, David. Speaking for myself personally, you have given me much more faith in Israelis than I have ever had. I feel like a “bad” gentile for having ever doubted that reason could exist in this debate. Keep writing.

This is a thoughtful and much-needed article, and thank you for writing it. People are forgetting that the goal of peace is not one loud voice, but many quiet voices. Thank you for sticking out from the crowd!

David,
You are not a "Bad Jew" you are a "Good Human," which is way more important. Your ability to question the irrational basis of the current "with us or against us" Pro-Israel stance has never been more important or necessary.
If members of the Jewish community react negatively to your enlightened perspective it is only an indication of how correct you are. Your opinions strike a nerve because they are accurate and force other individuals to question their beliefs and cultural identity. I'm sure in their quietest hour they agree with you and wish they had the strength of your conviction.

This recent Israeli Gaza offensive has prompted people around me to ask questions, one of them being my son, who asked me to check out a documentary called "Occupation_101".
It was compelling, with information from many learned people. I had no idea of the evolution of Palestine today, and wonder how any compassionate person can accept what is going on there?

David,

Thank you for your piece. You are certainly not alone in your current 'predicament'. I hold an Israeli passport, have lived in Israeli, and like you, did the Birthright trip; and yet it is clear as day for me to see that the current carnage is Gaza is an atrocity.

To echo others' comments to your piece, I'd like to point out that the whole premise of 'bad Jew' label on those critical of actions of politicians and injustices committed against innocent, occupied people is simply - well - preposterous. Would criticizing Canada's actions make a me a bad 'Canadian'? Or those of Russia make me a bad 'Russian'? Perhaps if I lived in a totalitarian state, but certainly not among free- and critically-thinking human beings.

I fully agree with you - the phenomenon of blind support for any ugly action taken by Israel and consistent silencing of any dissent among the Jewish community is seriously flawed. I find it deplorable.

But there are many people out there like you and me. In fact, poll after poll shows that Jews in North America are very liberal-minded, at least when it comes to issues not related to Israel. I think it's due time for the 'Israel blinders' to come off.

For those who suffered the holocaust, they shouldn’t do it to others. what is going in Gaza is a group punishment for a whole community siezed from land and sea without any other option or way out!!
we feel sorry for animals burnt in a shelter, what should we feel for 1.5 million humans?!

I am Lebanese, i share your views entirely. throughout my life i have seen similar trends amongst my people. they blindly follow their leaders without question. if you are not with x then you are with y. but there exists a number of people who do not want to be associated with x,y,z or the whole alphabet for that mater. they just want to live in peace and to evolve beyond the tendency to fight over the absolutely idiotic issues that have hindered the progress of the Lebanese people. however, we have no voice and we are scattered and have no initiative to form a group of our own simply because we will fall back in to the same issue as x,y,z

i know i am not the only person who feels this way.. but for one.. i am disgusted and tiered because of all the violence be it in the middle east or elsewhere...

all i can do at the moment is just echo what you said

"I do not support the offensive in Gaza.

I do believe in Israel's right to exist."

but i would like to add one more thing.
Learn from the mistakes of those who came before us.... ignorance of history and the lessons it teach us is a fatal flaw.

Mr. Goldstein, you have a very skewed view already, the very thing David is disappointed in. JfJfP is a very small organization based in Britain - unless you frequent the BBC, one might not hear of it at all in North America.

How can a Palestinian have or show much reciprocity when they're busy getting their butts shelled? They lack infrastructure, their cities are hurt by it, and still you feel there needs to be some indignant, small group demonstrating reciprocity? Come on.

I know several Muslims here in Calgary - am friends with them, and have get-togethers with them AND my Jewish friends...in a personal setting, the reciprocal vetting of emotion and opinion is truly amazing to watch sometimes...THIS is the essence of what David advocates.

I agree wholeheartedly with Statisticus - David's not a bad Jew, he's a GREAT Jew and a great human.

David, I sincerely hope that those whose support for Israel and its actions is a little more unconditional than yours (and mine) can find a way to read your post and think about it, even for a moment, without immediately succumbing to a sterotypical fit of pro-Israel fury.

To believe in something - anything - so blindly that one cannot see or admit to any faults in their object of worship is fanaticism of the same species which has claimed innumerable innocent lives in Israel and elsewhere and is regularly denounced, in the context of Islamic fundamentalism, by nearly every reasonable person, organization and government on the planet.

Just because Jewish fanaticism does not lead to suicide bombing does exonerate its adherents - after all, whether it manifests as censorship, terrorism, inquisition or holy war, the output of fanaticism is more a consequence of circumstance and available tools than anything else. The root cause is equally morally reprehensible in all cases.

And let us not forget that Judaism has violent fundamentalism in its past as well - the Sicarii were infamous for murdering fellow Jews who did not share their convictions.

The contemporary reaction against Jewish people who question Israel's actions may be non-violent, but it is vicious, and is coming from the same intolerant strand of thought that the Sicarii tapped two thousand years ago.

The bottom line is that fanaticism must be questioned and fought at every turn, for any reprieve that it has ever brought in history has been brief and has usually begotten even more bloodshed not far down the road.

At the same time, people who have been drawn into fanatical ways of thinking are usually not irredeemable, but we must work hard to prove to them the error of their ways. Aricles and posts like yours, David, are a good start.

I'd suggest for your PhD thesis that you develop and discuss a policy to marginalize radical, settler Jews. That would make you an heroic Jew.

Thanks so much for your posting, David, and thanks also to Leila, Dave and the others who add excellent points while supporting David's sharing his views.

Thanks also to the CBC for this discussion, and for the media coverage. I'm a Jew who knows that the foundation of our culture and faith is the ability to question.

As uncomfortable as I am with making common cause with those who would destroy Israel, the brutality of this latest attack leaves me no moral choice but to add my voice and support to those protesting this appalling war.

Thank you David Borzykowski for your comments on the Israel/Gaza offensive. I only wish you had expanded on why you believe as you do.

However, you are a refreshingly open and objective human being. If more of us were more constructive in our approaches to the world's problems, perhaps there would be much less racist hatred and political turmoil.

And as for you, "jiw71"...... would you deem your comment positive or negative?

Was there a specific purpose behind your statement? What seeds are you sowing? Would you care to elaborate? Do you have the courage to stand behind what you said and offer the public your actual name?

Harold White
Masset, BC

Your point of view is sound. It took courage to say what you did. I am a Christian and my thoughts are very similar to yours on this matter. I believe Israel has a right to exist but this present action requires dissent from good moral people. I bellieve you are one of them. Thank you.

Hi David and all those reading and commenting.

You may be interested to hear the views of Prof. Neve Gordon, chair of the Department of Politics and Government, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, and the author of Israel’s Occupation.

The interview is on democracynow.org, Monday Jan 05

an excerpt: 'people there have been living in what one should probably call as a prison' (Gaza)
'..I think what Israel has been doing now has little to do with stopping the rockets, but actually it’s an election move inside Israel. It’s a move to build the reputation of the Israeli military after its humiliation in 2006.'

There is also an OpEd in the NYTimes from Jan 07 by Rashid Khalidi, a professor of Arab studies at Columbia, titled 'What You Don't Know About Gaza'

You may find there are many people all over the world who share your concerns and views.

David, I appreciate your article. It is great to know people are still thinking critically about important issues today.

What is the alternative? I live right across the State of Maine and if my American neighbours started launching rockets into NB, I would expect the Canadian government to react immediately, not to wait until 6,000 rockets are launched as Israel did before going to war in Gaza. So what's the alternative David?

No, David, you are not a bad Jew, nor am I. But I disagree with your view. I was born a German Jew, lived under Hitler from 1933 until 1939 when just 6 weeks before the outbreak of war I was lucky to immigrate to England, joined the British Army, went over on D-Day, fought the Germans until VE-day, became a war crimes interpreter immediately after and then returned to civilian life.

I am not a religious Jew, respect other religions though ABHOR the fanaticism and extremism of ALL religions. I am not a Zionist but have been to Israel several times including volunteering at a Kibutz during the 1973 war and for a while thereafter.Needless to say with that backgound I strongly believe in Israel's right to exist.

This is the key to the present conflict. Hamas' aim is to drive us into the sea, no compromises of any sort so it obviously becomes a matter of life and death for Israel.

Under these circumstances there is no other way out but to try and utterly destroy that organisation and all that is even remotely connected with it. This is called self preservation at an enormous cost for both sides. As in any war there is collateral damage which is infinitissimal when compared with the second world war.

As far as disproportionate force is concerned, there is no such thing. Just make sure you destroy the people who want to destroy you with whatever means you have at your disposal and it is lucky that in this case Hamas does not stand a chance.

As for decency how much more immoral can you get than using civilians as shields, discarding uniforms so as to be mistaken as civilians, lobbying rockets that are destined for hospitals and schools and don't fall there by mistake.

Gaza is once again a typical case as was Germany under Hitler, the population blindly follows their leader and are aware of the possible consequences and may Hamas be destroyed completely and soon.

gerry in Ottawa.

Well said! Israel has a right to exist, Jews have a right to be free of persecution, but the current activities in Gaza are an atrocity.

The most intelligent thing I have ever heard about the conflict was said by a Palestinian journalist, to the effect that this is not a conflict between right and wrong. It is a conflict between right and right - both Israelis and Palestinians have serious and valid claims to the same piece of real estate.

you are wrong,you can not allow hamas to bomb children,what kind of jew are you!!!!

David, your commentary would be more reasonable if you addressed the provocations of Hamas over the past several years. No one will dispute that war is terrible and many innocents are killed. Did England suffer Nazi bombings and rockets without a severe response? Would you have advised them to absorb the Nazi brutality and not to hit back? Should the Americans have accepted the attack on Pearl Harbour without a response?

Turning the other cheek may be O.K. for Christians but even they don't practice this religious advice. Jews like you accepted the Nazi terror and landed up in the gas chambers. Hamas doesn't hide their objectives which is to eliminate Israel and the Jews. Is that what you support?

I am not a Jew, nor a Muslim, but I think that the majority of Jews and Muslims are peace-loving people. The problem, as I see it, is with the radical Muslim movement which will stop at no point in promoting hatred toward the Jews. Israel has a right and a responsibility to protect her people from the rockets being fired into their country. I can only imagine what the United States'response would be if we in Canada started shooting rockets into their country. Would people be criticizing the U.S. for defending herself?

Actually, from my experience, well educated secular people are willing to look at both sides of the issue. The problem David is describing exists within every ethnic community/tribe/nation etc...

Thanks for your thoughts, David. I too see two sides to this story. And I think that like you Israel has a right to exist. And I would go even further and say that Israel has a right to defend itself.

So do the Gazan people.

Israel and the west wanted nothing more two years ago then for the Palestinian people to vote democratically for a party to represent them and then when the Palestinians voted for Hamas, the state of Israel and most of the west didn't recognize Hamas.

That was a lost opportunity. Had we recognized Hamas they may have been more responsible once in power to do the right thing. But we'll never know. Instead we declared the elected winner a terrorist group (weren't the jews fighting for Israel pre 1948 also labelled terrorists?) Then we cut Gaza off, limiting their citizens of freedom of movement and of trade. What did we expect, that the Gazans wouldn't react. Of course they reacted violently and so Israel has to react in turn. Violence begets violence and the cycle continues.

Hamas needs to recognize Israel.
Israel needs to recognize Hamas.

Then we have to find a way to support each other.
This means accepting that the occasional zealot from either side will commit violence, but we have to accept that and move on.
Peace

David, you are appropriately named. Israel needs leaders who think as you do to lead them out of the wilderness. Violence is not the solution to Israel's problems. It will only stiffen Palestinian resolve and the cycle will continue for ever.

Well put Gerry. I agree with you entirely and have a lot of respect for your opinion. All of my grandparents survived the Holocaust and worked very hard to instill in their offspring a sense of respect for human life and peaceful existence. I am a Jew and many of my friends are as well. I do not know of any Jews who want to see innocent civilians, especially children butchered or maimed.

But what are we to do? Those same innocent civilians democratically elected a government with the sworn and explicit goal of "driving the Jews into the sea." They have launched thousands of missiles into Israel over the past few years. They have butchered and maimed many Israelis with these missiles.

Now that Israel has finally responded with force they are vilified for "disproportionate response." No one seemed to mind the Coalition use of "disproportionate responses" during the '91 Gulf War or NATO killing people living in tents with GPS guided bombs in Afghanistan. Wars are fought to win, not to be fair.

The people of Gaza, through their elected government (Hamas)have committed acts of war against the people of Israel. Should Israel not respond because the aggressor is weaker than they? Worse, Hamas does not recognize any distinction between civilians and soldiers in Israel. Their attacks were aimed at innocents. I truly believe that the IDF is attempting to minimize civilian casualties. Hamas does not pick up arms and fight unless they are surrounded by human shields.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, there is no better option available to Israel than the current actions in Gaza. I, and most of the Jews I have discussed this with wish it were not the case. Those are our brothers and sister (literally) fighting for the IDF. They do not want to be in Gaza. They do not want to hurt Palestinian civilians. But...they will not be driven into the sea. They will not sit on their hands while elected criminals murder their families with rockets.

Why can't the world remember that Israel left Gaza in 2005 and restored Palestinian rule. The rockets never stopped coming and are still flying today. Hamas does not honour agreements, does not recognize Israel's right to exist or differentiate between soldiers and civilians.

So, sorry David. I don't think you are a bad Jew... just a hopelessly naive one.

you are not a bad Jew.

One thing I do not understand about this whole situation is why can't they compromise over things? Clearly there is no equality between the two and that is seen by the amount of damage done to Palestine vs. Israel. Palestine does not even have the security for it's children while Israel is quite powerful.

I wish Israel uses it's power to come to a good compromise for the both sides instead of just trying to reduce the Palestinian population by war.
I wish Israel would remember the true teachings of Judaism, because I am sure they do not encourage such mass destruction of innocents.

I wish Israel remembered how holocaust felt, because then now it wouldn't have been doing the same to Palestine.

I totally agree...the use against the 'enemy'with phospherus bombs and cluster bombs is a disgrace to me as a Jew. this action in Gaza is totally political to see how tough Olmert can be. Someone who has been thrown out of office but feels he has to be macho against defenceless people. And then Netanyahu was also thrown out of office. and these are the people that are making decisions like this. how on earth can so called politcians not able to come to a deal with Hamas is beyond me. I am 78 yrs old and I am ready to stop calling myself a Jew.

I truly think if we had more people like this in the world then we would finally attain some peace with regards to this conflict. This coming from a Palestinian...

Thanks for sharing your wisdom...

All the best

Although I consider myself secular now, I was brought up in a Jewish family, and I know my grandparents would be horrified to hear that I intuitively support David's position. I say intuitively because it seems right to me, however I have not traveled to or lived in the area so I can not say for sure how I would respond if I saw things first-hand. I hope that some of the reports are correct, the ones that say most Palestinians and Israelis just want to live their lives in peace, and would like the situation resolved so they can all get on with their lives. I fear extremists on both sides will continue to take more solace in the idea of power than of peace and reconciliation.

It's silly for anyone to believe that just because they are Jewish means that they have an irrevocable right to live in Israel. That would be like everyone of Irish descent claiming rights as Irish citizens.

In response to Aaron Goldstein's post

I don't don't think David's opinion is meant to be criticized in a literal sense. In regards to the David's quotation you have posted, I believe that, maybe, he feels that way and that is his experience. Obviously, there are two sides to everything where opinions are concerned - that of the Palestinians and the Israelis. As you have rightfully pointed out, there are Israeli moderates who are willing to work towards peace. But this is only one side of the story. I would like to shed some light on the other side of the story and, in doing so, also answer your question.

You have asked, "where I can find the Palestinians who are demonstrating against Hamas?" The Fatah party is one that directly opposes Hamas and the two have also fought each other on the Palestinian and Israel issue. Now, obviously you won't find the Fatah supporters supporting Israels cause of eradicating Hamas by killing 4 times as many innocent civilians which has occurred in this recent unilateral Israeli offensive according to www.reuters.com.

I hope this answered your question.

Good on you, David.

I reject many of the actions of Israel BECAUSE I am Jewish. When Israel's actions go against everything that I was taught about what it really meant to be Jewish. How has it come to this? - that I must support aerial bombing of civilian populations, including dozens of children, to be a good Jew?

To say you are a bad Jew is equivalent to saying that the Germans that resisted Hitler were bad Germans.

David
I would like to thank you for having the courage to speak. your words essentially echoed my thoughts that yes, I have been not to keen to share with others.
I define myself as Israeli/Canadian. I was born in Canada but spent most of my life in Israel. I moved to back to Canada about 12 years ago and although I visit Israel, I feel no desire to go back and live there.
I, like you, support Israel's right to exist.
I also do not support the current situation in gaza.

On one hand, I feel I should be supporting this, one of my sisters lives in Be'er sheva and has had to spend a lot of time in the bomb shelter, many of the people I grew up with were called into service of the army. I live in constant dread of adding a name to the constantly growing list of lovers and friends I have lost over the years as a result of the countless wars between Israel and her enemies.

On the other hand,I think that my sister is lucky for even having a bomb shelter where she lives, she has the choice of leaving the area and staying with friends away from the line of fire. The people who are stuck in Gaza do not, nor do they have bomb shelters, nor do they have access to areas that are outside of the line of fire.

Change in thought, in perception in shifting of world views is in my humble opinion what is needed most now.

Retaliating Violence with more violence does not create peace, it creates more hatred, more enemies, and more of the same cycle.

There is another way. It may take a huge leap of faith, a lot of tenacity, and trust but I know the peace brings more peace.
Please check out the following link for an example of an organization that does have the courage to change.

http://combatantsforpeace.org/

David, I completely agree with both your fundamental statements.

My wife and I are both children of Hungarian Jews. We grew up not being able to know very many of our relatives; they perished in the camps. I have studied and read extensively on the holocaust.

It is precisely because of this background and knowledge that I have never been able to understand how Israel can inflict such suffering on another people and in the name of Judaism.

Not in my name.

it pains me to see innocent people dying or injured, who ever they are. i have 2 little kids and i get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach at some of the images and can't help but think of my kids and how happy i am that they are safe and well.

i was recently in sederot and had a chance to meet with families and play soccer with some grade 5 kids (we played indoors by the way, as they are not allowed outside anymore).

i also had a tour of the police station to see their collection of kassam and mortars, that have fallen on that city over the last number of years, many of them over the recent 6 month cease fire by the way... most impressive? not that i needed it, but it did shed a lot more light on things for me and i became even more certain of the need for something to be done. And as one of the respondents here commented borzo, what is the alternative after waiting years before ‘moving in’? more waiting? Diplomacy with hamas?

what i think is being left out here, is that israel is in a fight for its very existence. we have to look historically not just at the situation today.

yesterday hamas said, that they will not sign any cease fire until israel is driven out from occupied lands. do you all know what that really means? hamas is not talking about gaza, westbank etc. they are talking about tel aviv, jerusalem, haifa. everything that is currently israel is considered occupied lands and because of this, israel must win the battle and the war.

the first option was not a military action. the first step to peace was the israel defense forces (IDF) ripping israelis out of their homes and synagogues during israel’s withdrawal from gaza in 2005.

those who opposed this, opposed it for the very reasons israel has had to go back in, because instead of using this beautifully cultivated land and creating beautiful things from the foundation left behind by the israelis, everything was destroyed and sure enough, as those who were opposed predicted, the terror moved closed to israel.

i agree that everyone with an opinion, should be able to express that. so thanks for the opportunity here. i would only ask that we all look at the history of this conflict as hard as that may be with all that is in the media right now. and remember what israel is fighting for is so much more than most people know.

to everyone out there who believe israel has a right to exist but don’t feel the current military action is right, fair, proportional or whatever, and particularly to the jews out there. it is easy to criticize israel at this time. i would only ask that those of you who have a passion and love for israel, take the time to create a forum like this when israel has done something you are proud of. like the withdrawal form gaza and lebanon or the very painful release of the murderer samir kuntar and the 12 other terrorists to lebanon, in exchange for reservists ehud goldwasser and elded regev this past summer or how about all the medical, scientific, biological and technical discoveries or inventions that have benefited us all. there are very few countries in the world that would do and sacrifice like israel has for its citizens and for jews around the world… more of us should speak up when israel makes us proud. israel deserves at least that.

so to answer your question, are you a bad jew? only you can answer that david.

jiw71, I think you need to explain your statement.

Ha, you're right; they are both conflicting view points; but I totally agree with them. I also believe in Palestine's right to exist; however, that is not the topic of this discussion.

The question you posted is vital!
David, just like you, I critically analyze myself, the world, and my place in this world and dude... it is frustrating!

Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question with a 'yes' or 'no'. Instead, I would like to pose a few rhetorical questions that may or may not help you:

How do you feel about your viewpoints? Are they reasonable?

Would you prefer to blindly follow the mainstream notions and ideologies of the majority if they deemed you a good Jew?

Who decides who a good Jew is and who a bad Jew is?

Thanks for your post!

You had me thinking for a long time on a response!

Where do we go from here? How can we help the people on both sides of the conflict?

Sincerly,

Your Muslim brother Miraal

David Borzikowski, if you lived in Ashkalon and everyday there are 2 or 3 rockets that fall near your house or better on your house and 3 or 4 times a day you have to go to a shelter waiting till it is over, would you have the same discussion. How can you have a discussion with somebody that said publicly that he will never have peace until he kills you . Everyday you go to work , he bullies you and when you show him your fist, he hides behind his mother. Hamas is only interested in the money that will pour in Gaza after stirring the World opinion against Israel to help the reconstruction. Remember they ran out of funds. Do you have a solution?

Hello,
David, you are a scholar and academic, so your perspective is transparant and mostly straight forward philosophy. But what dominated the Middle East (for the last a few decades, at least) has been politics and power struggle among Israeli statemen (seldom woman) as well as the Arabs/Palestinians side; and the religion has been a useful instrument to fuel such objectives; A semi-military regime or/and institution with tons of weapons in one side and desire to get as much on the other side!

You have received a great deal of good comments- mostly because, I believe, your honesty; I wish you good luck with your pursue of education. However, your best and most trusting friend in this journey is and will still be the history of the region; this one is really hard to learn in the classroom- try the "yellow wind", if you find the time to read! Take care.

Hi David,

Thank you for "opening up." (I feel your pain)

Put away your doubts - you're doing fine. God is with you and guides you. Keep on
following that little voice inside you and you'll get rewarded when you leave this planet.

Sometime things appear very bad, but that's so we learn from/through them. God IS with you and I hope He'll let you feel it...
Amen

gerald Fry:

I don't see how you are different from a Hamas fanatic. You both see the world in absolute shades of black and white. Diplomacy and compromise require all shades of gray and points of view. This take is about seeing beyond right vs wrong. Israel and Palestine are both right, and both wrong. Moving forward requires a maturity and plasticity of thinking that you appear to not have.

It is time to look beyond lines in the sand and an eye for an eye. It is time to look for compromise and peace.

I am European. And not only European but German. Today some of my best friends are Jews. One of them I met on the Camino de Santiago, widely known as a Christian pilgrims way.

I don’t know what a bad or a good Jew might be. Some orthodox Jews are against the state of Israel; yet some of them volunteered to fight in the Israeli army. There are agnostic Jews refusing the military service at all – I never understood how they manage to speak of a Promised Land.

Are we talking about the personal qualities of a master’s student and his remarkable way to present himself and his thesis to the public? Mr. Goldstein already proofed in how far the author’s premise is flawed.

Yet there is at least a Jewish side-effect. In the old, pre-holocaust Germany there was a proverb referring to the “jodenschull”, the school for Jews, as being the place of wild discussion. To start the discussion is a crucial moment. And Mr. Goldstein’s request for solutions should simply be ignored.

But, and that’s the other crucial moment, looking for a second on the demographic perspective of the non Israeli Middle East and considering the fact that Islam doesn’t practice any form of birth control: talking? With whom and about what?

Thanks David,
You put forward the conundrum pretty clearly:

I do not support the offensive in Gaza.

I do believe in Israel's right to exist.

I simply cannot see how this or any offensive can bring about any improvement. It seems the same people who supported the offensive in Iraq quiet divested themselves of that issue without ever admitting that the strategy didn't work. Now they have a new war to cheer for and have learned absolutely nothing. I can't believe rabid nature of some of these people.

Thanks again,
Graham

Israel has the right to exist but does not have the right to deny Palistines existance. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am a Canadian living in England - I have visited Israel but to be quite frank I am absolutely disgusted with the way that Israel has disregarded the human rights of non-Jews over the last 20 years. I am not alone in these feelings! Do they not realise that these agressive actions alienate main stream thinking peoples of the world. At the end of 1945 - the western world was behind the creation of Israel - a homeland for Jewish peoples. The Jews had been persecuted by the Nazis and possibly others in the past , but the tables have turned - now the Israel govenment is the PERSECUTOR.

I know many Jewish people who are of the opinion that one can be against the actions of the Israeli government without being anti-semitic or pro-Hamas.

Unfortunately, I also know an equal number of people who seem to equate my outright anger at the actions of the Israeli government (and subsequently, their military) with support for Hamas.

Andre, you may want to read up on what exactly preceeded those "6000 rockets" as you seem to be implying that there was no stated reason for the action (or no retaliation by Israel, which is flat out incorrect and laughable). Please inform yourself about the Gaza accord, the concessions made, and the subsequent food blockade that has existed for half a year now.

I see a humanitarian crisis created by a Goliath nation that has managed to pick up no less than 12 UN denouncements for the lack of human rights offered to the Palestinian people.

Israel has unapologetically, and without irony, created ghettos and slums and has kept a group of people in conditions it won't let reporters, UN human rights watchdogs, or aid workers near. How a nation can expel a UN human rights observer and then claim they want to be monitored is one of the great mysteries of upper level politics.

But with all the anger I hold for the Israeli government...it needs to be said that it is with the Israeli government. Not the people within the borders. Much as how I don't approve of the actions taken by Hamas, I disapprove of those taken by Israel.

And I do like to be reminded that even Jewish people (of which I am one) can disagree with their government, showing compassion for a group of people who have as much to do with their government as we here in Canada do.

Except we don't have to worry about the Israeli military mistaking our home for a UN building. And bombing it.

Well done! Well written - I hope you will succeed in showing others that being a against a nation's foreign policy does not equate with hatred of a country or its people. Politics is a human creation and, as such, is subject to being flawed. All national policies stand to be improved. Standing by a human creation without question is narrow-minded and I applaud you for making what should be an intuitive realisation, but sadly, so often is not. Once again, well done!

To Gerald Fry:
By your logic, then if my neighbour throws a tennis ball at me, I have the "right" to throw a demolition ball at this house. Even six thousand tennis balls do not equal a demolition ball.

Preposterous. And dangerous.

Not to mention your complete lack of regard for the massive scale of human suffering and death experienced by thousands. "Collateral damage" as you call it is a privileged concept used by armchair pragmatists. Again, dangerous.

Please open your mind to what David to trying to express. An inquisitive and well informed mind is a dangerous weapon in this day and age.

I find your opinions interesting. However, it seems to me, you failed to explain why you don’t approve the goings on in the Gaza strip.

David,

First of all, if you are not agreeing with the way Israel is trying to stop daily barrage of rockets from Gaza, what is your solution to the problem?

Israel has tried negotiations. Israel pulled out completely out of Gaza and basically gave it to Hamas. Israel abided by the cieze fire, while Hamas continued daily rocket launches into southern Israel.

Hamas is just the like high school bully. You can not talk the bully out of bullying others, but if you punch him in the nose a couple of times, and maybe break his jaw, he will get the message.

What Israel needs to do is publicize every video that they have showing how Hamas is using schools and hospitals as launching pads to bombard Israel, and then cry foul when the launching pads are bombed.

And what you need to do is to understand that there is no peace with Hamas since their charter calls for the destruction of Israel. the only good Hamas is dead Hamas.

"What Israel needs to do is publicize every video that they have showing how Hamas is using schools and hospitals as launching pads to bombard Israel, and then cry foul when the launching pads are bombed.

And what you need to do is to understand that there is no peace with Hamas since their charter calls for the destruction of Israel. the only good Hamas is dead Hamas."

And what you need to do is justify Israel's tanks opening fire on a UN aid vehicle and killing aid workers.

And then justify the creation of Israel and the displacement of millions.

And then justify the war that followed, the war crimes committed by Ariel Sharon, and the quotes by the Chief Rabbi of the Israeli army, who tried to tell the commanding officers to blow up the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock after taking the Temple Mount.

And then justify the fact they made a war criminal their Prime Minister.

You can put the blinders on and say Israel is right, or you can educate yourself, which seems to have gone out of style somewhat. One thing is for sure, you haven't the first clue about anything.

This was a superbly written article by someone who has the ability and education to see both sides of the situation and understand to an extent why it is happening.

Israel has MUCH to answer for in its short history, at least as much as the Palestinians have to answer for. This was a bad situation from the start and the policies pursued by both groups afterwards led us all down a darker road with no regard for the fallout that was evident.

And now we have this mess, where Israel is again ignoring the world's call for peace and invading. Lebanon was an illegal invasion, and this isn't far off.

I as well am neither Jewish nor Muslim.

I practice Buddhism and I would like to offer the flowing quote.

"In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves." - Buddha

Deborah

Dear gerald Fry.

if you believe that violence is the ONLY way to get rid of Hamas or Hizboulah, or any other extremist faction for that mater, then let me be the first to inform you that this is by far the LEAST efficient method for both the short AND long term.

violence will only breed more violence. if the history of the world taught us anything it is exactly that.

and as for your "As far as disproportionate force is concerned, there is no such thing. "
i agree.... but not in your context.. for me ONE life taken (don't mater what side) is too much

I am sitting at my computer not knowing if I should cry or shout or applaud, such are the feelings that I am experiencing after reading these comments.The one consolation is that most of the postings seem to agree that violence is not the answer.Personally, I could never justify, in my own mind, the death of another in order to secure my own safety.Those that have posted with the opinion that Palestinian deaths are justified,in these present circumstances, have lost their sense of humanity. We are talking about human beings, who are the victims of every conflict.Gaza,Afghanistan,Iraq,Darfur, etc,etc,it is the innocent peaceful people who are the victims,the population that suffers. The political leaders, with their armies and press releases would have us believe that they are protecting their citizens,but it is just the opposite.Does anyone in Israel truly believe that peace will follow the killing and maiming of thousands of Palestinians and the utter destruction of Gaza's infrastructure? I can not imagine that peace will be the outcome.

I agree with the comment posted by Mark Warner. That said, I think the Palestinian-hating, bomb-civilians-and-perpetrate-crimes-against-humanity Jews are the ones that give Jews a bad name, not the so-called self-hating Jews.
I can appreciate your quandary, though. I support non-First Nations peoples living in Canada, but it should not be at the expense of First Nations peoples. And I support the idea of a state of Israel, but not one that exists at the expense of the Palestinians.

@ "typical university logic - educated beyond his intelligence."

Typical uneducated response. You could try spending more time learning what logic is and less time posting insulting ad-homonym remarks.

Why are you so concerned about "branding"... labeling, naming, categorizing, distinguishing...discriminating one type of human being from another?

Just be a human being. If you insist on branding yourself, be a good father, a scholar...not a (adjective +) Jew.

I don't subscribe to any of the religious fairy tales but I don't DEFINE myself as an atheist...I don't carry a flag. I don't worry whether or not I'm a good or bad atheist. My ancestry and my spirituality are legitimate but relatively minor ingredients in the Hill Billy recipe. How other people brand me doesn't concern me and it's difficult to do because I don't wave a flag.

Branding and banding together implies opposition and conflict. The Toronto Maple Leafs wear a blue uniform so they can distinguish themselves from the opposing team. There are people that support the red team.....

Support the team you like but not too enthusiastically. Don't be a fanatic. Don't concern yourself with the fact that some people will support the red team even though you KNOW that the blue team is superior.

You can walk peacefully among even the fanatics of the opposing team if you aren't wearing your colors on your sleeve.

Tribal. LA gangs. Fear. Hatred.

Love

David's comments are okay as far as they go, but they are mostly about himself (nothing wrong with that). He doesn't actually say much about why he doesn't support the Israeli action.

Some 30 years ago I, a Christian woman, married a Jewish man and we chose to raise both our children as Jews even though I never converted.

At the beginning of our relationship I was introduced to to a brand new world in Sephardic Judaism that I enjoy to this day. I was also introduced to the world of anti-semitism.

I came as a great shock to me as I had never encountered it before. This is why I will support Israel's right to exist in order to ensure that my family would have somewhere to flee to if our western world should prove unsafe.

As a Canadian, growing up in a culture that believes in concensus and accommodation it is hard for me to see what is happening in the Middle East. I do not believe in achieving one's goals through aggressive means. However, having said that I would like to know what supporters of Israel see as the solution to the Middle East violence when the Palestinian militants refuse to see the right of Israel to exist.

You certainly don't see Israel lobbing bombs into Egypt now that they have peace so I would think that this proves that Israel is capable of making a real peace with it's neighbours. I also have problems with the insistance on the right of return of the Palestinians when so many Jewish people were expelled from their homes in Muslim countries.

At the time my husband's family came from Morocco in the 1960's after much of their property was forced to be "sold" to Moroccan Muslim's - they lost a small fortune even in those days. Perhaps what might help is if the UN agreed to pay the Palestinians for their property (at current rates) while ensuring a state of Palestine in the Middle East.

I think you are over stating the case that you are a voice in the wilderness within the Jewish community. I know of many Jewish groups and organizations that publically advocate from the same perspective that you claim as your own.

Many Jews are cautious of those that are critical of Isreal because caution is called for. When someone says they are against 'occupation' it a statement that needs to examined. Many (most?) Jews know that the vast majority of the settlements outside the original 1948 borders were and are a bad idea. Most of us oppose this kind of 'occupation', but when a critic says they oppose occupation are they talking about the occupation of Gaza/WestBank or Tel Aviv?

There are enough self-hating Jews out there that a 'dance' to determine the true intentions of the critic is neccessary before you can even decide if a conversation is worthwhile.

Read Haaretz. There is a wide range of opinion there. I think you are doing your fellow Jews a disservice by saying we are all monolithically in favour of the actions of Isreal. You know this is not the case. Maybe the problem is more that a nuanced opinion is not easily reproduced in the news media.

Mr. Goldstein, Diva I, Dave B and others,

I think that you have missed the point of David's piece - without trying to speak for him, I don't believe he said anywhere that the use of military force against Hamas is, in and of itself, unreasonable. As regards that, he only said that the current offensive has "serious shortcomings." More to the point, what he is trying to say is that there is a dominant strand of mainstream Jewish thought that does not accept that there could be any shortcomings at all, and that unilaterally condemns anyone who may suggest otherwise. As I said before, such talk is a species of fanaticism.

This discussion is not concerned with the eventual solution to the problems facing the Israelis and Palestinians. It is concerned with the fact that just as Hamas must be held to account for its deeds, so too must Israel. I'm sorry, but the reports of attacks on UN convoys smack of a berserker mentality amongst some of the invading forces, and it is clear that the IDF has unreasonably hindered other aid efforts as well. Any other country that did this and did not apologize, in fact did not acknowledge it, would be ostracized, but in Israel's case it is tolerated.

Admitting that the IDF has committed acts such as these is not an indictment of Israel, just as the revelations about Abu Ghraib were not indictments of the entire United States of America. Tragically, such things do happen in war - this does not mean, however, that these incidents should be swept under the rug. It is the duty of any responsible democracy to acknowledge them, investigate those involved, and determine what, if any, action is required.

I'll cite a moderately similar example. In the 90s, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa found itself under a great deal of pressure to erase acknowledgment of the acts of violence committed by the ANC. Nelson Mandela quite rightly (and courageously, since he himself was responsible for some of the earlier violence) condemned such censorship. Acknowledging that the ANC had committed atrocities, and sometimes perhaps had even overstepped the bounds of necessity, did not undermine the cause for which it had fought it any way. It was, quite simply, the right and responsible thing to do.

It is a fact that there are things happening in Gaza right now that are, by any definition, atrocities. Acknowledging this does not, in any way, undermine Israel, excepting to those who think that it can do no wrong. Believe me, even the most righteous of causes, and perhaps especially those, can do wrong. And yet a cause that is truly right is not a house of cards - surely, it can withstand a little criticism, a little humility.

Please stop responding to David's article by avoiding his point and asking him for a solution. He does not offer one, nor does he speak of one. He only points out the difficulties faced by Jews who question Israel's actions, and the corollary inability of mainstream Jewish thought to conduct an open, honest and objective discussion about not Israel's goal of security, but the decisions it has taken to achieve it.

In answer to Erin Davis "tennis ball theory" If my neighbour made it quite clear that he wants to destroy my house and me but unfortunately for him he has only a tenis ball at his disposal; oh, how he wished he had a demolition ball, I see no reason not to use my demolition ball to destroy his house before he destroys mine. No point to throw 2 tennis balls at him hoping he won't acquire a demolition ball at some future date. This is not a friendly fencing match. You are dealing with fanatics who will stop at nothing, given the chance, so more reason to forestal and eliminate them.

Good for you Dave, what you are doing is good pr, I hope you mean it from the heart.

I was raised to feel sympathy for the Jews. 30 years of watching them abuse and torture the Palestinians has hardened me. If you nuked israel tomorrow I would shrug my shoulders and say "well, they had it coming".

As with all causes the Jewish cause will be judged by it's actions. If deciet and cruelty are allowed to run unchecked, Israel will fall.

I enjoyed this post. It points out a lot of the problems many of us are dealing with in regard to the situation in Gaza.

While not Jewish, either by religion or ethnicity (I had Jewish ancestors a couple of generations back but they "married out") I fully support Israel's right to exist but don't at all support the current policy in Gaza. Whenever I voice that opinion, however, my more conservative friends accuse me of "backing the terrorists" or some other BS.

No, your opinion does not make you a bad Jew, just a thinking person.

David faces the same sort of dilema faced by those who wonder what "supporting our troops" means to a Canadian. One can have all the empathy in the world for those serving in Afghanistan and elsewhere, without necessarily feeling that the manner in which Canadian troops are serving is the best solution for those regions, Canada's image, or even for the Canadian forces in general. It IS quite possible that there are more pragmatic and effective ways to deploy our troops. It may be that thes best way to "support our troops" IS to pull out and let them recharge for a bit.

Similarly, one can express all the support possible for Israel's right to exist in peace, and for the need to have some form of directed response to the constant rocket attacks emanating from Gaza, without necessarily accepting that the approach currently taken by the IDF and Knesset is the most practical one possible. Personally, I understand how fed up many Israelis are with being shelled all the time. But I also know that residents of Gaza, regardless of whatever affiliation or sentiment they might have with Hamas, will not forget these days, and as a result will not likely make easily contented neighbours two years from now when all this is behind us. Supporting Israel, to my mind, means supportingactions that conceive of peace in the long term, not just justification for immediate actions.

That being said, when passions flare abut something, it is all to common to mistake hesitation or caution about the MANNER in which a problem is being addressed with the perceived NEED to address it.

David:

I applaud your courage. I have no connection to the Middle-East, yet even I am reluctant to express my opinions openly; what more someone like yourself.

I am from Southeast-Asia but grew up here in Canada, so I hope that people will not think that I am bias towards Palestinians, but I am also not very happy with Israel's actions.

I listen to Isreali spokespeople justifying this onslaught, and hear words like 'War' and 'Bring Hamas to its knees', but I still see the Palestinans as an occupied people with Israel as its occupier.

I'm sure that both sides have become hardened by this conflict, so I'm not surprised that both the Palestinians and Israelis elected more militant governments to represent them.

Israel may succeed in bringing Hamas to its knees for now, but what's next? Unless the memories of this violence and injustice has been erased from the minds of these people, I can only imagine even more militancy in the future.

Peace!

Thank you David. My uncle (by marriage) is Jewish and spent a lot of time in the area about 7 years ago. This was before blogging and our rapid information exchange through the internet, when a lot of people just didn't know what was going on.

He was doing his PhD over there and was a strong Palestinian activist--mostly with words. But he was jailed for trying to intervene when Israeli military people were destroying a make shift home of a Palestinian Family. He didn't stay in Prison for long but had to abandon his studies. Jews who are not 100% pro Israel (no matter what) are not welcome there. So it is not surprising that they keep their mouths shut if they don't support the Gaza attacks.

It should also be noted that many Israeli residents have moved there intentionally to occupy the area, with adequate money to relocate for the reason of "coming home",and they have connections in other parts of the world. The Gaza residents however are mostly poorer families with no where to go. So this is not equal on both sides.

Thanks again.

I realize your dilemma. You are not the only one. There are hundered and thousands of jews in Israel and around the world who are going through the same crisis.

Dear David,

Yes, I am the same Deborah who sent in the Buddhist quote.
I would also like to share a story with you about a remarkable woman, my Mother. When I decided to practice Buddhism instead of Christianity I remember sitting at Mom's kitchen table one afternoon as the conversation revolved around the many different beliefs and faiths practiced in the world. Mom had this to say. She believed there was one God and this is how she explained it. He was a cook and it all started with a pot of beans, now, not everyone born liked these beans from the original recipe so God being God tried out different recipes. Some beans were made sweet, some were made with meat, some were made for vegetarians. The different beans represent the different religions in the world because God recognized that each society based on their environment would require different nutrition. Keep in mind its still the same cook (God) and the base ingredient is still the same beans. One God, different recipes. Over time man has added and deleted ingredients to suit himself some to point where even the beans are no longer part of the recipe. I always thought it was a good analogy. Now the next part may seem unbelievable but it is true.
Mom was born and raised in Quebec tho when she passed away she had been in living in BC for quite a while. I brought her ashes back to Quebec for a remembrance service in the very Church she had been baptized in and almost all my relatives had as well, and the Catholic Priest quoted the above story in his service. On route back to Halifax with Mom`s urn I was one of the first to board the aircraft. I placed the box with Mom`s urn under the seat in front of me. Two people approached and indicated they had the two inside seats next to me. I then noticed a Jewish Rabbi coming down the aisle and he sat on the seat under which I had placed Mom`s urn. It turned out the couple next to me were Lebanese Jehovah's. This was when Lebanon and Israel were in conflict. So here we have a Jewish Rabbi, a Shaolin Buddhist, two Lebanese Jehovah's and the ashes of a Roman Catholic all within 5 sq ft of each for the 1/2 flight from Mtl to Hfx. The female next to me commented on the small new testament book I was holding and she said as a Jehovah she believed that even tho everyone thought they were heading in the same direction only those that chose the Jehovah Faith would arrive. I thought about this for a moment and decided to share Mom`s analogy with her and her husband. I also pointed out that on this particular flight there were many different religions represented and collectively we were all heading to Halifax together and would arrive together. It became very quiet for the next couple of moments!
I always remember the look of bemusement on my husband`s face when he watched us all get off the plane. The Lebanese couple offered graciously to carry my hand luggage so I could carry Mom and our departure was a heartfelt thank you and a hug. My husband asked where the Rabbi had been sitting and I told him, on top of Mom and it had been a quiet, peaceful flight where in one way or another we had all shared our ~beans~. This story was not intended to be published but perhaps offer you a different perspective. From my kitchen table David, I do not see you as a bad Jew or a good Jew, I see you as a person striving for peace and goodwill and you are not alone.
D

Thanks David, for the voice of reason. I too love Israel, and support its right to exist. I, too, am appalled by the 'military solution' being foisted on the Palestinians of the Gaa Strip. It deeply upsets me that the Israeli military brain trust have settled upon a form of "blitzkreig" as their method. I am not a Jew, which may make any of my critical comments invalid.

However, I support you in your stance, and I would encourage you to continue your studies in Israel. Thank you for your openness.

James Strachan

Well I have to disagree with you. Yesterday I went to local synagogue for "Rally for the Israel" there were about 30 Jews demonstrating against. Interestingly nobody shoot them or broke theirs legs (Hamas killed 35 and injured 75 Fatah people in Gaza hospital) I can say one thing about Jews, we even took "Israel" as a country name. "The man who wrestled with God" I hope it's proper translation.
But now we have a problem with Hamas, unfortunately they do not have the same values. Read Aljazzeera.net story "people's war"

I agree with Aaron Goldstein. Mr. Borzykowski spends all his writing on defending his position, and none on demonstrating an understanding of the problem. What is his solution? For Israel to just "suck it up" and allow its citizens to be killed, its soldiers to be kidnapped, and its borders to be breached by an implacable enemy? Mr. Borzykowski doesn't say. My suspicion is that he hasn't really thought about it.

Why doesn't Hamas use the fertilizer for growing crops to feed starving Palestinians, instead of making rockets to kill Israelis? Why didn't they use the tunnels for smuggling in food and medicine, instead of rockets to kill more Israelis? Why don't they use greenhouses to grow food, instead of to store weapons to be used for killing Israelis?

Any thoughts, Mr. Borzykowski?

Btw, I am a Christian, and a PhD student in computer science, for anyone who thinks academic and religious affiliations are important.

Hey everyone
I'm not a Canadian but stumbled across this story and I'm glad to have done so.
After having read the comments I'm delighted to know that even if we can't agree on 'israel's right to exist' we can at least agree on the fact that what's happening right now is heart breaking and no way justifiable.
I'm glad to know that there are still people who can see both side of the story.
I'm a Muslim and a peace lover. I don't support violence in any way or from anyone be it from Hamas or Israel. I don't chant 'death to Israel' but the more atrocities and war crimes I see the more my heart breaks: the blockade, shortage of BASIC human needs, the 30 people who died in the shelter( where Israeli military had advised the Gazans to take refuge), the UN school attack and the rejection of UN resolution and the list goes on.
What people need to understand is that there are extremist in every religion and culture but you can't generalize everyone of that religion as 'extremist' too. This is often the case in Muslims which is sad and annoys me because Islam teaches peace. And keeping this in mind I know that there are good Jews just as there are good Muslims who love peace and therefore I won't label every Jew as hating Muslims or Palestinians. And this story and more comments from other Jewish people have strengthened my view.

@WROL56 @Aaron Goldstein @the others who missed the point

David's point wasn't to state his specific views on the conflict, it was to express his feelings about how out of place he feels in a small Jewish community that, unfortunately, often takes one side or the other in this conflict.

In Winnipeg there's a small but strong and passionate Jewish community, which is great, but not if you're views contradict the mainstream. There's also a number of Jews who participate in pro-Palestine rallies, which is fine, but a number of these people don't believe in Israel's right to exist.

So, David and many others like him are faced with a dilemma - where do you go to express yourself? You don't.

It's great to see that David isn't alone - I feel the same as he does and clearly, so many others do as well - so maybe now he won't feel that sense of isolation.

Sure, he doesn't explain us what should be done, but there's enough people on blogs, message boards and TV telling us that Israel should stop this or Hamas should do that, and not enough folks expressing how this conflict personally affects them even though they're not living in Middle East.

On another note - this brings up an interesting question. It's not surprising that David feels this way - Jewish communities have strong organizations that can easily organize a rally, while Palestinians have built up a healthy community of politically engaged people as well. Unfortunately, that gray middle ground doesn't have the funding or support that these other groups have, since it's not really that interesting to have a somewhat apathetic, middle of the road group out there. But the majority of these comments have been surprisingly passionate (and, even more surprisingly well-written) so maybe there is room for a third side to this story?

Someone who opposes the offensive in Gaza does not really love Israel. If he loved Israel he wouldn't want it to be harassed by rocket fire.
This man is clearly a Palestinian sympathizer. And questioning things and not excepting them at face value is a Jewish trait, but opposing the right defend yourself is not.

The problem is that you've never lived in Israel and never felt what people under rocket attacks feel.
I was very strong in supporting the end of Israeli occupation of Gaza thinking that after it ends all the World will understand the need of the state of israel to fight the terrorists. It did not happen though. They will be fighting us no metter what. 8 years ago they started to bomb Sderot and now it is already as deep as Ashdod, Yavne etc. If they won't be stopped now in no time the rockets will reach Tel-Aviv.
I don't think you are bad Jew... it is very common for our people to feel guilty for everything. For even living... Look at the arabs... you will never hear them critisizing Hamas for targeting Israel or hear their regret for killing israelis. On the contrary - they celebrate every child killed in Israel, every woman, man. We should be as determined as they are. Go and watch "Defiance" or better go to Israel and spend a year in Sderot under rocket fire I bet you will change your mind.
You are dealing with people that make Samir Kuntar their national hero and this guy did not do anything good except of smashing the scull of 4 year old girl with the stock of his gun after killing her father... This guy received the biggest award from the president of Syria... Those people are their heroes. Do you want to have anything in common with them?
Israel is not fighting people of Gaza it fights Hamas terrorists - those brave fighters that hide behind their women and children and fake as much of the videos and pictures they can to make them look jucey.
Write me if you want to talk about it.

A lot of response to a well-meaning and thoughtful comment by David, who clearly hasn't thought through the whole of it.

Yes, Israel does have a right to exist and yes, the Palestinians have a right to a state.
But hamas in its charter is committed to the destruction of Israel, as is Hezbollah, and I'm not entirely certain Fatah has renounced that objective either.
When in Haifa after the Lebanon war, I was shown metal pellets, nuts and bolts that had been expelled from a Katyusha rocket fired from Lebanon which landed on the outskirts of a hospital. Hamas has sent thousands of unguided missiles into Israel over the last eight years with the clear intent of injuring (thousands) or killing ( about 28) Israelis if they happen to be in their path. Hamas then hides behind the skirts of the innocent palestinian people, firing rockets from homes and schools,while hoping that Israel will respond to discredit their humanitarian instincts.
Both sides have fault in this, but Hamas is inhuman and inflexible and the Palestinians need to extirpate them

there is no explanation here as to why he doesn't support the operation in Gaza. If he supports Israel's right to exist, is pro-Israel and wants to get his PHD in Israel, then he would support this offensive in order for him to have a country and University to go to.

Congratulations and thank you, David, for voicing your opposition to Israel's actions and sparking this discussion. I too am Jewish and deeply opposed to the Gaza offensive. I was interested to see the comments expressing surprise that there are Jews who feel this way - it shows how thoroughly the main Jewish Canadian institutions have usurped our voice.

I hope that the many Jewish people who shared similar thoughts on this thread help to dispel the perception that there is only one Jewish perspective on this tragedy. In Israel too there is a vibrant peace movement, though a minority -- see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9DN2Oi0-w&feature=channel_page

And to the charge that I am a self-hating Jew (I'm not), I can say that it's more important to work on not hating others.

My name is Hassan and I am a muslim student living here in canada. I just want to say that not every muslim (or arab for that purpose) believes in destruction of Israeil. I attended an anti war rally the other day. I was there to voice my concerns on the devastating effect of war on people of Gaza. I was not there to support Hamas.

I talked to about ten people who were opposed to Hamas (and as far I could discover they believed in Israel's right to exist). I know there were people thinking otherwise, but those who chanted "long live Hamas" did not get any response from the crowed. Anyways, I believe that peace and justice is the solution for the conflict in M.E. but I don't know how many lives need to be lost till politicians realize this.

Dear David,

An excellent commentary. Let me say to those poeple who say that David doesn't get it - actually, it seems to me that most of you don't get it. Hamas has absolutely no ability to destroy Israel. If anything, this current situation has demonstrated that reality beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Hamas can say whatever it wants to in its Charter, but the fact remains that it knows it will never destroy Israel. On the other hand, it maintains its opposition to Israel and refuses to recognize Israel for symbolic reasons. To Hamas, recognizing Israel is the same as saying that Israel had a right to displace and dispossess millions of Palestinians.

At the same time, Hamas has made it clear that is open to negotiation and long-term truces with Israel. Israel could negotiate and try to make progress on these terms, but it will not. It was Israel that first broke the ceasefire on Nov 4 by attacking Gaza, and it was Israel that strained the truce from the beginning by imposing its debilitating blockade. Israel's determination to destroy Hamas militarily is a major mistake. This actions will only make Hamas stronger. At the end of the day, it is even more important to talk to your enemies, not just your friends.

This misunderstanding of Hamas and its position is a major problem. I don't support Hamas - I don't have much use for Islamic fundamentalism. But Palestinians voted for Hamas because, in contrast to Fatah, Hamas has proven that it is not corrupt and that it is capable of good governance. Israelis vote for militarist, rejectionist governments on a regular basis and the world recognizes these because it respects Israel's democracy. We should have extended the Palestinians the same respect.

David, tribalism is never a good thing. I think that by asking questions and thinking beyond the confines of the groupmind, you are doing far more to honour, nurture and perpetuate valued Jewish traditions of critical thinking and humanity than any Jews who blindly and fanatically defend Israeli actions, regardless of whatever atrocity Israel may commit. The world needs more people like you.

Yes, you are a bad Jew.

Gerald Fry, I think you are what every Israeli citizen must be, truly wonderful. They have such a very small country to call their own, and still there are so many who want their destruction. I have always felt that people hate what they are afraid of, and clearly, Hamas is terrified of the courage and intelligence of the Israeli people.

Unlike David's my scolarly background is in engineering. Engineering leads you to analyse the situation like that trying to find a design flaws which caused it.
My analysis has same conclusion as Israeli goverments : Hamas is the problem. It needs to be taken out of the ME mechanism.

Here is a shocker: The faster this problem is solved the sooner 2 state solution could be implemented.
Those who root for peaceful,free and independent Palestine next to Israel (as I do) should wish IDF success in their mission.

My heart and prayers go out to the victims and their families on both sides. I wish IDF would have better planning, better execution. I hope they do anything possible and impossible to minimize death and injuries of innocents. I know that Israeli public demands that IDF adheres to the rules of engagement.

Even with best in the world Israeli and US war techonolgy mistakes happen.

David you are not a "Bad Jew". As an arts student and scolar you view of the world is the one of the true humanitarian first of all. " What would be nice is..."
Mine is: where is the problem and how do i fix it. Get rid of Hamas, make just peace.

I think I'm not a bad Ukrainian because of that.

it pains me to see innocent people dying or injured, who ever they are. i have 2 little kids and i get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach at some of the images and can't help but think of my kids and how happy i am that they are safe and well.

i was recently in sederot and had a chance to meet with families and play soccer with some grade 5 kids (we played indoors by the way, as they are not allowed outside anymore). i also had a tour of the police station to see their collection of kassam and mortars, that have fallen on that city over the last number of years, many of them over the recent 6 month cease fire by the way... most impressive? not that i needed it, but it did shed a lot more light on things for me and i became even more certain of the need for something to be done. And as one of the respondents here commented borzo, what is the alternative after waiting years before ‘moving in’? more waiting? Diplomacy with hamas?

what i think is being left out here, is that israel is in a fight for its very existence. we have to look historically not just at the situation today. yesterday hamas said, that they will not sign any cease fire until israel is driven out from occupied lands. do you all know what that really means? hamas is not talking about gaza, westbank etc. they are talking about tel aviv, jerusalem, haifa. everything that is currently israel is considered occupied lands and because of this, israel must win the battle and the war. the first option was not a military action. the first step to peace was the israel defense forces (IDF) ripping israelis out of their homes and synagogues during israel’s withdrawal from gaza in 2005. those who opposed this, opposed it for the very reasons israel has had to go back in, because instead of using this beautifully cultivated land and creating beautiful things from the foundation left behind by the israelis, everything was destroyed and sure enough, as those who were opposed predicted, the terror moved closed to israel.

i agree that everyone with an opinion, should be able to express that. so thanks for the opportunity here. i would only ask that we all look at the history of this conflict as hard as that may be with all that is in the media right now. and remember what israel is fighting for is so much more than most people know.

to everyone out there who believe israel has a right to exist but don’t feel the current military action is right, fair, proportional or whatever, and particularly to the jews out there. it is easy to criticize israel at this time. i would only ask that those of you who have a passion and love for israel, take the time to create a forum like this when israel has done something you are proud of. like the withdrawal form gaza and lebanon or the very painful release of the murderer samir kuntar and the 12 other terrorists to lebanon, in exchange for reservists ehud goldwasser and elded regev this past summer or how about all the medical, scientific, biological and technical discoveries or inventions that have benefited us all. there are very few countries in the world that would do and sacrifice like israel has for its citizens and for jews around the world… more of us should speak up when israel makes us proud. israel deserves at least that.

so to answer your question, are you a bad jew? only you can answer that david.

Hi David!

Thank you for sharing your views with us. I wish to share my views with you and wonder what's your intake on them. I really wish to hear from a jew how they feel.

Just like you miss Israel, I also miss my home, but since I'm not a jew, I have no right to return.

My family owned 2 homes in Jerusalem. both demolished by Israel. The first was rebuilt as a new home for a Jewish immgrant, the other became part of a parking lot. Keep in mind my family was never compensated bu the Israeli govenment for their loss of property.

My Family (grand-parents & mother) was forced to leave their homes. They had only few minutes to run for their lifes or be killed by the Israeli soldiers. They ran for their lifes leaving everything behind.

I do believe that the jews have the right to live in Israel. And I do not wish to have them gone from there. But how come my mother and I are not allowed to return to live there?

What is your opinion on this? Why people like me are not allowed to return? and why Israel doesn't compensate people for the loss of their homes? Do you believe that there's a chance for this to change?

Can a good human condone massacre? It shouldn't be necessary for people to examine the specifics of their religious identity to recognize that massacre is something to be condemned.

Whether this was always true could, perhaps, be debated. But at this point in history, with the level of communication that we have in the world, with the study and understanding of past massacres and recognition of the racist paradigms that caused them, and -- most of all -- with the general modern consensus that all people must enjoy the same basic human rights and freedoms, massacres can't possibly be condoned in today's world.

People who don't see this are not so much 'bad individuals' as practitioners of 'bad religion'. They have come under the sway of an ideology or an interpretation of religion that is itself contrary to basic humanist precepts. For example: a Zionist vision of 'Israel' as a sovereign state which is constitutionally delegated as a "Jewish Homeland" which will forever be dominated by Jews and which will forever give priority to Jewish immigration. This is BAD by modern humanist standards, because it is fundamentally racist.

This sort of Zionist programme is based on a narrow-minded literalism that is typical of many other fundamentalisms. In the case of Zionism, instead of recognizing 'Israel' as an idea -- a metaphor for a collective spiritual community -- the notion is used to sanctify claims to a specific piece of territory.

But the Old Testament texts make it clear that Israel is NOT a piece of land. Israel starts off as another name for Jacob, then it is used for his descendents, and later it is usually used to represent a sense of shared spirituality and ethics which bind the Jewish community. There are parts of the Bible in which it is stated or implied that a certain area -- roughly similar to the modern territory of Israel -- is the "Land of Israel" or "Land of the Israelites." But this is not 'Israel' itself, and nor is it a 'state' in the modern sense.

The passages in the Bible which seek to define a territory for Israel can be seen as efforts to maintain a collective identity by outlining boundaries around a diverse set of sub-communities. Different tribes had differing customs and habits, but a shared sense of religion united them, and this was strengthened by defining that territory.

The best proof, however, that Israel transcends physical boundaries is seen in the way Jews preserved their religious identity after physical dispersion, and this continues today. Are Jews living outside of Israel inferior Jews because of their place of residence? No one except a fanatic would believe so.

Now let's look at the statement "Israel has the right to exist."

How to evaluate this depends on what you mean by 'Israel'. If it is the idea of the spiritual community of Jews, then what you are really saying is: "Jewish people have the right to a shared community." No one can argue with that.

But if, by 'Israel', you mean a state, then the statement is silly. States don't have a "right to exist." They either exist or they don't exist. If they don't exist, they have no rights, and if they do exist, then they have rights.

However when most Zionists say "Israel has the right to exist," what they really mean is: "Israel has the right to be a 'Jewish Homeland'" (i.e. a state which has the right to formulate policies aimed at protecting and preserving a predominantly Jewish identity).

This may sound like a noble idea on the surface, but closer inspection reveals that it conflicts with basic notions of equally shared rights and freedoms for all. Policies designed to perpetuate Jewish dominance are inevitably going to be racist.

Sorry for the lengthy response, David, but it's a pretty loaded issue. Good luck sorting things out.

I am impressed at your openness and truthful comments. I remember the time Clinton was trying to push Rabin and Arafat into a room to resolve their differences. There was relative peace at the time. Bush messed up everything, instead of continuing the peace process from where it was he turned his back on peace. The mess this moron leaves behind will take few decades to clean.

If Jews are allowed to trace their history and settle in the region, why do Palestinians have to bear the burden? They also do not know any place on earth other than that part of the world. What always shocks me is, Jews have seen what it means not having a place of your own, and then they turn around and want to do the same onto somebody.

I have hard time to comprehend this. How can people who have suffered forget about pain? Did they ever give up fighting back injustices? Having power at times may give you a power to make rules or law. If the law is unjust, people will fight it back. That is how slavery was abolished even if the slaves did not have power, gradually there were enough people with reasonable mind to take their cause and fight for them.

What Israel is currently doing does not secure peace for Israel. It will only feed into breeding anti-Israel sentiment and increasing the number of radicals. The only thing that can secure peace for Israel is a peace they can reach through a negotiated agreement. I do not know any human being who does not fight back with anyway he or she can if attacked the way Israel is attacking Palestinians. Calling Palestinians terrorist or calling names people who speak against their action does not solve the problem. They have to learn from history and make peace. In my view, if Israel truly wants peace they can make it happen. The people want true peace but their politicians use the war as a means of survival. This is a sad truth. We as Canadians have to stop taking side and be honest peace brokers. This is what they are also lacking. We can help them this way.

Good on you, David, for being self critical and with a smile!

I think the greatest danger facing Israel is not Hamas or anything outside Israel. It is within Israel. Same for every country and every people. We will all die some day. Every country will fade. What is important is to live right.

Can you live with the idea that you killed a school of small children in order for you to feel safe? In order for you to ensure that these children will not grow up and strike you some day? You will not feel safe. You will feel sick. And your life will be meaningless.

I am with Omer Goldman and the Shministim, twelveth-graders who choose jail rather than do their compulsory military service because they refuse to participate in the oppression of their Palestinian neighbours. If you want to see 3 minutes of truth from Israel, go to this site and let these kids show you true heroism: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/509.html

These teens are the meek of Israel and they, together with the meek of Palestine, will inherit the Earth. They are inheriting the Earth. In the moment of their heroism, they are more alive than if they had lived 90 years in the false safety of those who succumb to fear and strike out.

No matter how we word it and there are many well worded comments here, the bottom line is the Jews seem to have convinced the world they have a right to bury innocent people alive under the pretense of violence or protecting the rest of the world by stamping out the bad people. Everyone one of us that chooses to beleive what is covenient to our ears is just as much to blame for the bloodshed as the Jews and Hammas are. Hammas are groups that the Jews support - because that then supports their opportunity and excuse for the inexcusable assults. But I beleive in our God who died for each of us including the Jews and I beleive HE is sadly disappointed in HIS chosen people. I am.

My final comment:
In reading all the very well thought out comments regarding the pro and anti Gaza campaign there remains just one basic fact.
Hamas will not negitiate from their declared aim to destroy Israel, so it is obviously impossible to negotiate with someone who will not.
So what options are there but to try and eliminate them before they even have a chance to fulfil their ambitions.
Please don't evade the issue with lots of theoretical arguments, just give me one clear practical solution and you may convince me to change my mind. Gerry Fry, Ottawa.

There is a large consensus among anti-Israel supporters that the current military campaign by Israel is an over-abundance of force. I would like to ask them, if Israel chose to fire 10,000 home made rockets into Gaza at random sites, including hospitals, schools, old folks homes, etc. over the next week, instead of waging a military campaign, specifically targeting Hamas installations, how would the public react to that? Would the public think that response as proportionate or still an unwanted act of agression? Its hard to believe that it would choose the former.

Gerry Fry is spot on. Hamas is interested only in a truce, not a peace and its avowed charter aim is to wipe Israel off the face of the map. For Israel, this is a struggle for survival-memories of the holocaust are still vibrant and the palestinians, if they want peace, would be well-advised to get rid of hamas-they will not advance the just palestinian cause.
A little known fact is that the reason Hamas won many seats in the Palestinian parliament was because in many cases there were two Fatah candidates in a riding-the older corrupt echelon nominated one and the younger more moderate Fatah members nominated another; and Hamas won with the split vote-that only gave trhem strength to take over Gaza by force and with much bloodshed and murder of Fatah members-even if Hamas was to negotiate with Israel for a truce (which they so far refuse to do), how could anyone, Israel government included, trust them to live up to any commitment that they make.
The first step has to be to restore the legitimate government of Palestine to Gaza-only then will a just and durable peace negotiation be possible.

I think you are a typical Canadian. Naive and tolerant. As a Jewish person you might want to consider your safety at a Palestian rally. As a student of political history you might want to question Germans and Egyptians meeting to come up with a solution to the Israel question.

Wow, so refreshing. I appreciate your contribution, not due to your stance on the current crisis, but for enlightening people on the mere fact: that there are people who are forward thinking and would like a peaceful solution. Many times when a nation whether it be Palestinians or Israel, all the people who occupy that nation are blocked under one category and judged. To show a different perspective highlights the mere reality that each individual has their own notion, understanding, logic, etc. As someone else said, Judaism would be in trouble if people like you did not exist. Also, as a muslim, the false notion that all muslims are against Israel is false. We are all individuals with our own perspecives as well. Kudos to you to stand up for what you think and believe. I viewed some really nasty comments aimed at you. I hope this does not discourage you in your faith, but in fact make you stronger. You definitely represent what I believe a good Jew should be. Thanks for sharing.

David, russellm put it succinctly: "typical university logic - educated beyond his intelligence."
Do go on with your introspection on existentialism as to what you are. I, for one, don't wish to label you as a good or bad Jew, just a non-Jew.
You are using this issue as an intellectual exercise that has given you great material for writing your PhD thesis.
I do hope you write your thesis in Sederot or any neighboring city so that you may better experience reality.
Ruth Taylor, Montreal

I am studying for my PHD.
CBC is not showing the real story..,and frankly as canadian I like CBC to give us the real tv pictures....please check aljazeera.net

David:

The problem of whether or not supporting Israel's Palestinian policies and actions shall be solved by looking at the God of your fathers in past 5,000 years, the "religous aspect," not by the scholars' brains or anyone else.

Most people would like to reason with their own brain with every problems in the world and try to get solution for the problems by reasoning with brain only. They would consider themselves are decent, reasonable, moden ones and believe the truth is on their side for sure. Sometimes they would say "we are the majority so we should be all correct."

Are they?

I don't want to express my view here for that question at this point of time, and I do know you love Israel for sure, but I just like to ask you and wish I can receive your feedback:

Are you still praying to the God of your fathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob)everyday after you leave your Jewish school at your youth? Do you consult with the God of your fathers on every decision you try to make?

Again it is refreshing to see people speaking of the bloodshed (any bloodshed) being wrong.
That they are not afraid of being labelled an Anti-Semite for their non racist opinions and observations. I am not surprised by those who are defiant and blindly justify the violence of a raging beast destroying human lives of this earth. The people of this earth must stand together and show delinquent organizations such as the ADL, KKK, etc. that hate and violence will not be tolerated, not by more violence but by simply not supporting them.

For those of you who do not understand the problem in the Middle East and the growing terrorist phenomena including "9/11"; I offer this metaphor.

Take a half dozen cats( the Palestinians)

Throw them in a bag and tie it up (the Gaza Strip)

Then poke the bag with a stick (Israeli politics)

The problem is the the metaphor generates more sympathy than the subject it attempts to explain. Have we already forgotten that Osama Bin Laden promised his father on his death bed that he would avenge the palestinians. Our solders are dying due to israeli politics.

David,
To help you gain insight. Please go to the utube website and see the video of the booby trap Hamas wired connecting from a zoo to a childrens' school.
Ruth Taylor

I applaud Jews who speak out against Israel's carnage in Gaza, and have nothing but contempt for its so-called "friends" who support every Israeli action - even if it is brutal and counter-productive. By killing so many innocents, Israel has only created more hatred among Palestinians and guaranteed continued bloodshed.
Expressing his contempt for Canadian Jews who support Israel's terror-provoking policies from the safety of North America, the late Prof. Israel Shahak once blurted out to me: "what is the worst thing that can happen to them, weep in front of a television set?"

The only people calling you a "bad Jew" are bad people themselves. They have completely ignored the human suffering that has been caused by the current Israeli government's Collective Punishment policies.

Collective punishment can not be excused, EVER. Don't like Hamas? Hey, I don't either, fight them and them only. Israel has killed around 30 Hamas militants in December PRIOR to the bombing of Gaza. The IDF bombed out tunnels successfully PRIOR to bombing Gaza. Keep doing that. Attacking civilian infastructure (which was paid for by North American and European aid) is completely out of line, out of reason, and out of Jewish moral boundaries.

Honestly, I think you are just trying to gain sympathy from the Arab/Palestinian community. As long as you support the illegal-terrorist state of israel, you will remain hated on.

Peace to you David,

For trying to take the stance for justice, regardless of which side it is.

Unfortunately, the only thing that you hear in the western media is their unconditional support for Israel's security policies, regardless of human costs involved. This has two reasons in my opinion;

First, the West lends this unconditional support to Israel's foreign policies because of their own guilty conscience. For thousands of years, going back to the Romans, the Europeans mistreated and oppressed their own Jewish minorities and this treatment culminated in the NAZI's Holocaust. So, to make amends with their own guilty conscience they support the actions of Israel unequivocally without any regards for human sufferings of the Palestinians.

Second, the growing rise of Evangelical Christianity in North America has aided Israel as well. Evangelical Christians want to speed up 'coming of the Christ' event. And that is only possible when there is a Jewish state. Thus, you have Western leaders like G. Bush and Steven Harper - who are devote Evangelical Christians - supporting Israel's military actions.

In the end, the least we can do now is to speak the truth and condemn violence against civilians on both sides. May there be peace again in the holly land and Jews, Muslims and Christians greet each other as their own brothers and sisters. Ameen

You seem to be very confused and erroneous in your terminology. Nobody classifies any Jewish commentators as the “greatest Jews in history and that they were all people to look up to.” What you could say is that they were some of the greatest Jewish thinkers and that many admire them.

Similarly, when you accuse others of calling you a “bad Jew,” you are using a flawed term. No person has a right to determine the quality of a Jew, and thus if someone called you “a bad Jew,” their comment should be disregarded.

What people could blame you for is that you resemble the Palestinians in that you take the oppressed position. Rather than making a stand and supporting your belief with concrete ideas and information, you choose to pretend like the whole world is against you. For example, you didn’t once mention an alternative to the operation in Gaza. To many people, declaring a critical opinion without an explanation or alternative is a sign of ignorance. So, instead of worrying about being a bad Jew, first worry about being an ignorant Jew.

Hello David.

Very well sad. You are not a Bad Jew, but a
Good Jew that knows right from wrong.
There are many others in your position.
Jewish Women against the Occupation and many other such groups based in Israel itself, do not ever show up in Mainstream Media. The protests of Israelis against the actions of their government, the Israeli soldiers that refuse to impose the occupation on Palestinians, these things are never heard of all the way here in North America.
But, know that you are not alone.
It takes a brave man to stand up to the wrongs of his own people.

Thank you for your post,
Rosina

A country is its government,the government of Israel is (really is) committing war crimes.If this is what you love,if you love crime,then stick around and reap its 'rewards]. On the other hand,you could join the human race.
Our world is drowning in an ocean of illusions.our God,our race,the Master race,the one and only God-we are smarter than you(now there is a big one)Where has it led the world??Just check The 'international'free press any day of the week.there will be your answer.
The world does not and never will belong to any of you groups(herds).( ) off!!!!

There needs to be more jews like this young man. As a non-jew and non-arab; I have to say that the whole (Illegal)jewish state was built on a lie, perpetuated by Zionists. I am sure this young man has read the Balfour Declaration, & I would encourage every Canadian to read it, it will aid you in better understanding why Palestine is such a mess. The whole deal of giving jews a homeland had conditions;NOTHING SHALL BE DONE WHICH MAY PREJUDICE THE CIVIL & RELIGOUS RIGHTS OF EXISTING NON-JEWISH COMMUNITIES IN PALESTINE

I am Native American living in Canada. I would say that you are neither, and both. You are a good Jew and a bad Jew. We are all Good and Bad; so what makes you any different? or for that matter, what makes Jews any different?

You seem quit focused on what your community thinks of you. I would suggest the focus for you and your nationality needs to be, in these times of earth changes, shifted to a deeper concern about 'what other human beings think of you.' or What does the Divine think of me and mine?

I believe its your peoples interpretations of a book, by your elders, as 'fact'; this is where the problems stem from. The Talmud teaches what??? "that you are the chosen ones", but you may not to have a country of your own. (Side Note: we think your GOD didn't want your people to have a nation because you where unworthy, and would kill others, out of pride and ego and laziness.. maybe?)

Correct me if i'm wrong but It teaches 'you' Jews (zionist, orthodox, etc)that all others on the planet are what? Unworthy gentiles.
I think there are many elder races that would disagree and according to Natural Law, that is just wrong thinking.

To my people, that is pride and ego taken to extremes, by extremists. Our elders tell us that when there is so much pride in self, as a nation or a person, then there is no room left in the heart for others.

The reality from here is: You are all the same!

Even though you profess you are not, we see you as the same..in different wolf's clothing. You are here simply to try and confuse, and delay judgment of your peoples.
These tricks may have worked during the 5th age (age of Pisces) but with the dawn of the 6th age (Age of Aquarius), they will fail you, your nation and all those on Earth who fail to act as follows: Out of a need to Give (to all equally), Oneness (with self) and respect for Destiny (of the life force in ALL things).

We would respectfully suggest you consider that your people are stuck in spiritual pools of blood, created by your inability (pride and ego)to accept the words of your GOD as given; to all, and one, so man may fulfill his destiny. You have changed the words of your greatest spiritual leaders to suit your golden idols...again. Your man-made GOD seems to focus your people on acquiring Gold, Oil and Diamonds at any price.

Its really sad, and we pity and pray for your kind.

Be well
mr_b

PS. This is directed at the author and it makes no never mind, if it is posted.

You are Not a bad Jew. Good on you and shame on Isreal for killing innocent children and woman. Bombing citizens in cities is not not being a Jew. Blind support for a racist Government is not being a Jew.

I think that we need to begin with some clear headed thinking. First, citizens of one country cannot behave as mercenaries for another. Any Canadian that serves in the Israeli Defence Force, cannot legitimately continue claiming to be a Canadian Citizen.

Secondly, the Second World War was fought and won to destroy the idea of "group rights" and "group punishments". The Universal Declaration of Human Rights grew from the ashes and horrors of World War II, as did the State of Israel.

Third, all Nation states who signed the United Nations Charter are bound by its terms. No matter how inconvenient, Nation States must act "within the law" which means "within the terms of their solumn Treaty Obligations", both in the spirit and the letter of those agreements.

Finally, we need to re-apply the lessons from World War I, which was that "secret treaties" and "alliances" are primary destabilizers of Peace.

By ANY REASONABLE measure, Israel has lost the right to administer the Palestinian Territories. There needs to be a United Nations Mandate established for Palestine to prepare it for independence, and part of that effort will involve the deployment of UN Peacekeepers to Gaza and the West Bank, even if Israel objects. There needs to be "reparations" made to the Arabs, and additional efforts made to insure that Palestine can not only be stable and viable, but also free and democratic, enforced by the force of arms if necessary.

Finally, there needs to be a complete nuclear arms disarmament for the Middle East, including Iran and Israel. Israel does not require first strike nuclear B1 bombers and Iran does not need to spend large amounts for weaponry. What is required is a binding disarmament and a binding peace.

Finally, we need to FORCE both ISRAEL and PALESTINE to install in their constitutions the fundamental law that comes from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the United Nations, that basically forms the foundation for the "separation of Church and State".

The United Nations should then arrest those responsible for "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" and should at the same time arrest those who perpetrate acts of "terrorism" and have all of them sent to The Hague for Trial and Incarceration.

Israel needs to face a punishing series of universal sanctions if it does not fully comply, and the Palistinians need to understand that with the UN presence, that the "intafada is over".

When Palestinians are able to finally see, that destroying Israel, or committing attrocities against Arabs is no solution for either side; then and only then will the first footstep be taken down the road to Peace.

Finally, Canada needs to seriously redress the distortions in our media caused by excess corporate concentration. Near monopolies need to be broken up, and a healthy independent free press re-established in Canada.

The Israel Lobby needs to be placed on the same precise basis as the Tamil Tigers Lobby.

Thank you for being, first and foremost, humanitarian. I enjoyed reading your thoughts because they really are your thoughts - not reactionary, not hateful, not uncaring, and not blindly following an unquestioned belief system. That is something that we have seen too much of in the past short while.

Thanks for your opinions. I think that opinions like yours may eventually help stop agression and create peace because possibly when Israel realizes that many Jewish people around the world are outraged, they will stop.

Please don't ever stop speaking out against the violence. With luck, like-minded Palestinians will also voice their objections loudly and without fear. Most people just want a place to raise their children, a job they enjoy, and a community to support them. Good luck and keep speaking out.

Divide and Conquer: The camoflage of power. We do not really see who is conducting the orchestration of strategies, plans and actions of war. Civilians are mere casualties depending on your nationality or race, your value goes up or down according to your country's perceived worth in the western world. Yes, geography matters. The famines in Asia and Ireland in the 19thC that killed millions while their produce rotted at train stations in India, China and Ireland, are dismissed from history. Yet, this was the impetus for massive diasporas. Can these people's descendants claim citizenship in their ancestral lands? I don't think so.
The real estate in this entire world is manipulated by those with money to play with lives.. .always has been and still remains so. Let's not delude ourselves. The wars that are forced upon civilians serve the penthouses and banks with stakes in the military industry. Ordinary people cannot see the faces of those who actually plan and perpetuate war. Those boardrooms are only available to a few.
Ordinary people are manipulated by religion and culture and there are those who see how fundamentalism in religion and culture can be used to further their own purposes. Divide and Conquer...we need to see who continues this..not just the camoflage of PR and media propaganda.

A bad Jew. Here is why. Used in the third person, being a Jew or an Arab etc. refers to ethnic origins. When in the first person in the context of a value judgement (i.e. good or bad) it refers to personal identity. In the ethnic connotation, good or bad makes no sense. Right? Now with this bit of a knowledge, we can take it to the next level. When we identify ourselves with race or creed, we act ignorantly of our true nature and this the inherent evil causing all the bloodshed that we are witnessing between all these good Jews and good Palestineans. So, no thank you. I don't really care if you are a good Jew or not.

I believe the creation of Israel was wrong. The land was forcibly seized against the will of its residents and given to its current occupants by people who had no moral authority to do so. To provide safe-haven to people who needed and deserved it, world powers gave up not one square foot of their own land, and instead stole land that they had no right to. That was an unforgivable assault against innocent people. (Giving Jews a chunk of Germany would certainly have made sense, but the Palestinians owed no compensation.)

That being said, trying to reverse that transfer now would be an equally unforgivable assault against the land’s current occupants, the majority of whom are under 60, and therefore can’t possibly have had even a passive involvement in the land transfer. That would be no better, and would punish the wrong people.

It is frustrating to see people like Ehud Olmert deny the legitimacy of Palestinians’ anger while so adamantly arguing the mirror image of the Palestinian point of view: “They should have the right to keep their land and their country,” is a sentence that is equally true whether you define “they” as Israelis, Palestinians, or the Palestinians of six decades ago.

Beyond the hypocrisy of the argument for war, is the self-defeating nature of Olmert’s tactics: If a FEW enemies are of grave concern, then the creation of MANY enemies, which Olmert provokes when he commits the monstrous acts he has committed in Lebanon and Gaza, MUST be of FAR GREATER concern. It is exceedingly simple math: If SOME hatred creates danger, then MORE hatred MUST create MORE danger. Logic can’t help but see that, however emotion… well… that’s always a problem.

The question a responsible leader would ask himself is, “How can I create LESS hatred?” Communication and cooperation are the tools of peace. You cannot shoot the hatred out of a country. You cannot blow up intolerance. That’s not an opinion, it’s a literal fact. Bullets can only perforate hearts and minds, not win them over.

I can’t help but wonder if the secondary gain that war leaders are afforded (the power to hijack public funding, the power to roll back the civil liberties of their citizens, the political support of the perpetually angry, etc…) can possibly be curtailed. I believe that Michael Moore had it exactly right when he opined that war is a crime perpetuated by governments against THEIR OWN citizens. War costs its leader nothing, its society much, and its victims everything.

Thank you, David, for sharing your opinion. It is not at all surprising to me that there are Jews, Israeli and otherwise, who see this conflict rationally. I am equally certain that there are Palestinians who are equally rational, but reasonable opinions are so rarely exposed.

Well said, and well done.

Being a "bad jew" is part of being a good person. In accepting ones role in the mainstream of modern judiasim you are forced to condone things you know in your heart to be wrong, unjust and immoral particularly as it relates to the Israeli-zionist agenda.

You are right to feel the way you do and be glad you have your own truth. Few things are as important in this life. It is better to be a good person then a good jew and that goes for all other religions as well.

I see your dilemma. It is not an easy situation to be in. While I acknowledge your views have merit, I am more of a realist; peace will come when one side has won. It might not be a lasting peace, but it will be a peace for some short amount of time.

Do what is right. Sit in between the lines, with signs facing both sides. Say what you believe in, no matter what. You're doing the right thing.

When a resident Israeli writer has the courage to be honest about the war right now, every outsider who seeks to defend Israel's actions should stop and feel intense shame.. and dig into Israel's history that has concentrated on imprisioning people in their homes, confiscating land and houses,tearing up ancient olive groves, decimate arable land, and uses religion and race to isolate, divide and scatter citizens including some Jews.

"The IDF has no mercy for the children in Gaza nursery schools"

By Gideon Levy, Haaretz Correspondent

Dear Mr. Borzykowski,

I agree with your post for many reasons. The fact that you are a free thinker makes you a good Jew, at least in my opinion.

"Being a Jew" has changed from being a follower of a certain religious teaching into something of a worldwide organisation based on ethnicity rather than religion, supporting a country which is acting neither reasonably nor according to the basic commandments of the great religions.

I commend you for speaking out.

you are not a good jew or a bad jew. You are a good person.

Dear David,

Thank you for this. Your piece echoed my thoughts entirely and saved me from crying at my desk reading today's news. Many of the comments on your piece are disgusting and disheartening, but I suppose that is to be expected. I am deeply grateful for your article, and for all the Jews, Arabs, and 'neithers' who wrote in messages of peace, mutual respect, and love. Let's go for the both/and rather than the either/or.

A Hebrew and Arabic-speaking feminist Jew in our nation's frigid capital.

No. There are only bad people and good people, religion, race, wealth,nationlity should really have nothing to do with the concept of good or evil. Good in my view is showing compassion for those less fortunate, bad is self gratification at the expense of those less fortunate.

David:
It is reasonable to posit that Jews have to be concerned about the safety and security of other Jews throughout the world. When the citizens of Israel have been attacked with mortars and rockets relentlessly for the past 8 years from Gaza, it would seem appropriate that Israel do whatever is necessary to stop the rockets from being fired.
If HAMAS were reasonable, they would have tried to negotiate with us. Unfortunately they are blinded by their zeal to destroy Israel. Trying to ignore them hasn't worked. Trying to appease them means Jews would have to leave Israel. Even periods of agreedto cease-fires were constantly violated. It is unfortunately necessary to demonstrate to HAMAS that they cannot succeed through attacking us.
In a historical analogy, what is the appropriate response to a Hitler? We can always try to argue that we shouldn't fight back. But the only thing that worked was to hit them with everything we have.
It is also interesting to note that it is not just Israel that HAMAS is against. They maintain a view that the Western way of life is the way of Infidels and, if succesful with Israel, they will export their views further afield.

David,

Your position I suspect is more evident than most people, including yourself, would believe. I, like you, find Israel's action disagreeable, perhaps even a bit heavy-handed, and yet, I do feel Israel has every right to protect its citizens from harm. A daily barrage of rockets, whether they are successful or not in its goal of killing innocent Israelis, is not acceptable. Unfortunately, the solution is not as simple as saying "ok, another missle..we'll just ignore it like a mosquito buzzing around our ears". Nine thousand, and I repeat 9,000, rockets launched at Israel in eight years. While Israel hasn't had to suffer a quantitative number like 1,000 deaths, how do you measure, thousands of people tramatized by daily rocket launches. The media only reports death toll numbers, but the psychology of the war - its back and forth - is so much more damaging.

I do not follow Israel's actions blindly. I too have been to Israel and know first hand that the government is far from perfect. However, I will not side on the same side as those who denounce publicly that Israel is a committer of war crimes, acts of genocide, masters of the current "Holocaust" and so forth. It's so offensive, it actually crosses over into the realm of hilarity, and really are comments made by people with an anti-Jew agenda. So rather than side with those close-minded, prejudical types, I would rather show greater support for Israel, even if I don't believe in the actions 100%. That unfortunately is a reality of situation that causes polarization. A shade of gray unfortunately is too complex for the simpleton mass public, and really since this is battle of media reports, rather than an actual battle of Israelis vs. Hamas (or Palestinians), a side has to be chosen. And in no way should a Jewish individual side with the same side as someone claiming Israel is the master of genocide...for your safety and for the safety of the Jewish community and the world.

May peace one day be granted to all in the world. B"H

I certainly respect David's feelings, that the killing of Palestinians stop. Who doesn't. But this is what happens when you put men's weapons into children's hands. The push on Gaza could have been stopped in 1 hour if Hamas had agreed not to continue sending missles and import weapons.

We know that Iran is holding back hoping to finalize a delivery system with atomic warheads. If they sent missles or man power now their facilities would be destroyed. Following David's reasoning, any nation can launch missiles into Israell at will without worry of retaliation. Bigger and bigger till they send a small nuc and eventually bring slavery and extermination as planned by the Palestinians and Iranians.

Am I exagerating, unfortuneately NO. the blame goes to the UN and European Nations that condone or hide their heads in silence while the extermination of Israel is being planned. Hamas and the Palestinians are being coddled and nurtured more than any other state in the world. Look at their skyscapers, their schools, their electric utilities and communications. This area was an exporter of food before they came now half the population is reliant upon taxpayers around the world just for food. Sections of the city are called refugee camps. A lot of bull, because these areas are regular city blocks now!
The Palestinians are endangering world peace, they could trigger a world war in which billions could die by their hate-mongering and morally deficient actions of blowing up school buses and cafes. And teaching their children that Christians and Jews are no better than infected rats to be exterminated. We pay for their school buildings, their school books, we feed these malignant teachers, we pay for their arms and communication networks used by men who think nothing of bayoneting a pregnant woman at short range in an ambush. We must in one voice tell them to STOP or we will stop supporting them. We will send our money to people who are in even more need but will to use peaceful means to advance their cause.

You'll forgive me for inserting so seemingly flippant a reference, but at the beginning of the comedy/satire film "Team America: World Police" the rather overly patriotic puppet characters are in Paris on reconnaisance when they spot "terrorists". In the next few moments, they proceed to blow up the Louvre, the Arc de Triomphe, and the Eiffel Tower with mis-guided missiles and shoulder-mounted rockets, while attempting to capture or kill "the terrorists". They aim, yell "Damn, I missed!" and destroy yet another piece of history and all those in the path via "a mistake".

Now, the people they are after turn out to be every bit as bad as presumed, so there is no real error in carrying out the mission, since one of the terrorists does have a bomb. But with the sole focus on dealing with "the terrorists", all manner of collateral damage occurs without any of them taking a moment's notice.

And therein lies the difficulty for many Jews. Does Israel have a right to exist? Yes. Is it critical to defend Israel from rocket attacks? Sure. Whatever their roots, has Hamas become a detriment to the region and obstacle to any hope of peace? Sure. Would it be less difficult to actually move ahead with a viable 2-state solution if Hamas were not in the picture? Absolutely. Do the smuggling tunnels and rocket-launching points have to be eradicated? Yes. So, the mission is one which very few Jews would disagree. But should the zeal of the IDF in carrying out those actions result in things no one wants? There, many struggle with the balance. They can't accept that no response should be taken whatsoever, but the response that IS taken seems antithetical to the very purpose some see as motivating the respone in the first place: peace in the region, and security for Israelis.

So, is David a "bad Jew"? Not in the slightest. Wrestling with the bigger picture, and striving to reconcile things that can seem like opposites (and may well be) is the very heart and soul of the Talmud.

There ARE some within the Jewish communtiy who are made anxious by any dissent within the ranks, and I understand that. There is a recent history of anti-Semitism that exploits any inconsistencies as a means of rejecting all legitimacy of Jews, and a point of entry for justifying or rationalizing whatever they want. You know, the type that would say "If only 5,999,999 Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, then what else are 'The Jews' lying about?". It makes sense that many members of the Jewish community are apprehensive that even one dissenting voice will undermine their just cause and concerns. At the same time, 'tikkun olam', the mending of the world, requires and depends on the actions of individuals, and sometimes one has to just believe that the doubt shown by one leads the many to do the right thing, or do the right thing even better.

Now that Israel has taken to bombing the UN compound, I am curious to see the justifications that Mr. Goldstein and the "others who missed the point" will spew in defense of these atrocities.
I am descended from the Jews who fled the Inquisition and have been raised my entire life to feel empathy and compassion for the followers of Judaism, especially those who live in Israel.
I wept when, as a pre-teen, I began studying the Holocaust and then the events in Munich at the Olympics. I was horrified when I studied the Crusades and learned that the first wave of anti-Semitism took place when the Christians set off to 'liberate' the Holy Land. I briefly entertained the notion of converting fully to Judaism, but decided that it was too structured and went with Wicca instead.
All the empathy and sorrow I felt is now gone. I have become that which I used to despise, a person who sees the aftermath of what Israel has wrought and hisses "nuke the f%ckers" in rage at the sight of dead babies and screaming, grieving civilians.
The Israeli government has turned me into someone I never thought I could be, someone who would shed not one tear if Israel were destroyed tomorrow. The hatred I feel for that government sickens me and I wish I could go back to who I used to be, someone who had pride in where her family came from.

God bless you David! Having the courage and humility to even try to see the errors of your own people and hence your own is the beginning of spritual re-birth.

This is exactly what Christ did. First for Jews and then for Gentiles. God wants us to look within ourselves to see our shortcomings.

It takes a great person to do some introspection. A very rare thing these days. A truly strong person is one who tries several times on a daily basis to see one's weaknesses and try with God's help to overcome them. A weak person doesn't have the guts to look into the mirror but would rather sling mud at one's neighbour.

May we all follow and build upon this honest approach by David - you remind me of your namesake and Great King and Prophet David!

Hamas and the israelis govt are both working for the same guy(not God). in this world we have the good and the bad simple. They should take Canada for an example. Jews, Muslims, Christians...etc all living in peace

"Because I do not agree with Israel's actions, it does not make me any less of a Jew. In fact, I think that it makes me a better Jew!"

You obviously think very highly of yourself, but you don't state WHY you oppose the policy of Israel's democratically elected government.

Labelling you as a person wouldn't be particularly helpful, but your essay is intellectually lazy.

Sir, you have the innocent problem of Jewish guilt. My own family were labelled bad Jews because a distant uncle Captain Lutjen (Bismark) continued to serve Germany during WW2, and my grandfather who divorced to save his ex-wife (my Jewish grandma) so he could also continue to survive the war "inside", and for being friends with Rommel, who definately was opposed to the extermination. ON and on history is forgotten, and there will always be Jews who find fault in what makes you and mea good Yidd, someone who has the guts to speak out and do what you can in spite of criticism! Kudos. Shalom.

David
You and I got the same education. We've both been to JW, we've both been on Birthright. And yet, it astounds me that you could say this.
Absolutely unbelievable.
You sent this to CBC. The only other network you could have sent this to that would have been more anti-Israel would have been the BBC. So now, this terribly biased network is feeding off of this because its exactly what they want to hear. The fact that you wrote this will just further feed the anti-semitic frenzy that is growing by the minute. Nicely done.

Come to Europe and you might have a better understanding of this. Root for the underdog David, real original. As someone else commented, "typical university logic - educated beyond his intelligence." Can't agree more. I suspect that when you went to Israel, you went to the Hebrew U bubble.

I doubt you went to Ashkelon and had to deal with running to your bomb shelter every 5 minutes did you? RIght... that's what I thought. Had that happened to you, I don't think you would be promoting your hippie-dippie uninformed peacenik attitude, especially not to the CBC.

Does it make you a bad Jew? Not quite. It just shows that your goal of being different from all the other Jews has just made you a conformist sheep with the rest of the uninformed people out there who are rooting for the Palestinians because they're choosing the information they digest by watching CBC News.

For everyone who responded saying "there's lots of Jews with this opinion" - I beg to differ. I know plenty of Jews, religious and non, Isreali and non... And yet none of them share your opinion! Next time you're a madrich, why don't you take an extra day out of your partying schedule to visit some of the places that have been hit by thousands of rockets over the years? I think it might change your unrealistic idealistic perspective.

you are trying to say that you honestly don't know of any jews or jewish groups that have a similar viewpoint to yours? Nice try. how about "not in my name" to name just one group, didn't even need to google it. The real question is, since there are many jewish people who share your views AND they are easy to find, why this article?? I'm curious as to what your real motive is.

you're right i think we shouldnt stop chamas from firing rockets, i think we should stand idly by, sorry for our existence, just waiting for the enemy to execute their stated goal "the destruction of the JEWISH PEOPLE."

Wayne in Toronto is right....What IS the real motive in having this article published on an international platform?
David's plea to be seen as "good" vs "bad" because of his religious views got him global PR..why?
Personal conflicts with culture and religion rest in almost everyone. Why is he so special?
I am sick of those who see themselves as not like "others", and are given the time and space to justify some questionable beliefs.

It is easy to be rational. David, when shells are not landing to close to you, and, more importantly, you too, are conditioned to some extent by the culture which envelopes you. Read any James Bond stories recently?

Europe evolved in a culture that grew out of the
Catholic teachings that deplored the Jew. Even Protestants
like Martin Luther shouted from the pulpit that Jewish Synagogues
should be burned and their people driven from the land--a practice
still in vogue. When those leaders most admired and most respected
advised us to condemn the Jew, their curses became part of our Western
culture. That, in my opinion, means all of us, myself included.

That this bias exists in our culture is,I suggest, clearly shown by
the unusual outcry against Israel when violence occurs in that region
out of all proportion to our much more laid back attitude towards
similar violent encounters that are occurring throughout the
world.Even the genocide in Rwanda did not elicit anywhere near the
letters of outrage in Canada that the Jews can draw. And what can it
be but anti-Semitism when we refuse to allow this race to have a home
anywhere on this planet? No place to call their own, no place where
they can live by their own laws? And imagine Cuba hitting the U.S with
rockets--any idea of how many buildings would still be standing in Cuba the next day?

Luther would be laughing in his grave if he could know how
effectively he had engineered our attitude towards the Jewish people.I blame him far more for the Holocaust than Hitler--(who, had he been brought up in China would hardly have become anti-Semitic.)
Words written in stone, from the Bible on, carry their hate-filled
memes far beyond their author's own demise.

Andy Mulcahy
=======================================
"What shall we Christians do now with this depraved
and dammed people of the Jews? ... I shall give you my
faithful advice. First, that one should set fire to their
synagogues . then that one should also break down and
destroy their houses .Then one should drive them from the
country."
(Martin Luther; Collected Writings, XX), 1520

As a (goy) supporter of Israel in this essentially ghastly business, I cannot help but point out that Hamas and its associated jihadists are not, as you imply, calling for the "dissolution" of the State of Israel.

The call, the fatwah, the demand, the promise is for the utter destruction of Israel and its people. This goes somewhat beyond "dissolution" wouldn't you say?

Best of luck (the product of diligence) with your thesis.

Dear David.

You give me hope. It is people like you who give me hope that things can turn around. I believe that God is present in your Compassiom. I also wish to remind you that the Hebrew Bible is full of Jewish prophets who spoke up for what was right and were shunned by their community.

The people of Gaza must be recognized a human being. I believe once their security and survival of the Palestinians are guarenteed, the conflict will stop. Isreal has the financial resources and power to make this happen. I would like to support you and others who stand up and give hope.

To: David Borzykowski

David, I can certainly understand your personal need to understand and tolerate the agression and hope for peace from part of the Gaza strip and in Israel.... but my friends (married)in Israel (one Jewish-one Christian) who live close to the south border don't agree with your sit-on-the fence approach although they would certainly defend your right to express your thoughts in the public forum.

I am not a religious person, nor do I believe in any religion, nor do I need to. However, I support the Israeli position in this case. Their enemy is not the ordinary Palestinian civilian; their enemy in reality are people inside the Hamas ideology or supporting the Hamas ideology of islamic fanaticism and anti-semitic training which is part of that lunatic fringe of Arab society in general.

If Israel stops defending itself by trying to destroy the ideology of Hamas... when will Hamas stop firing rockets into the backyards of my friends in Israel??

One of the posters here of Palestinian extraction (she stated that her father was Palestinian) praises you in the first part of her comments, then states categorically that Israel sits on land that it has no right to exist on. This is Hamas doctrine. Worse still, Hamas believes that Jews should not live, let alone live in present day Israel.

You cannot sit on the fence in reality; you can sit-on-the fence in your Utopian mind-set. This mindset allowed 6,000,000 Jewish people to be exterminated over the WW2 time frame. Another 8,000,000 were gradually exterminated by Stalin.

So long as there exist boundaries between human religions,technologies, ideologies, languages, countries etc.. there will be conflict and that is unforunately human nature. Nothing has changed. No human can truely sit-on-the fence when it comes to self-defence and therein lies the dilemma in conflict.

All human peace has come from the sacrifice of other's peace. There is not a single long-term historical exception to this imbalance that I have encountered in my readings.

Thanks so much for your article. I am the non-Jewish member of a Jewish family (husband and children) and am so grateful to have become a part of the Jewish community. Through Judaism, I have come to experience spiritual beauty, understand the basis of ethical law and thought and have found a great community. My only problem has been if I ever try to discuss Israel in the same way I would discuss and hold to account any country and government. My friends or relatives become so distraught, so quickly, and as you have mentioned, one hears exactly the same arguments over and over. So I have become quiet, but often anguished.

With this last offensive, we have committed as a family to writing a letter and sending to Jewish leaders and Canadian politicians. And there are Palestinians speaking out for moderation--Palestinians and Jews Together of Montreal, and a brave group of students here at University of Calgary (again, Jewish and Palestinian and possibly other Middle Eastern students). Local Muslim leaders and imams have visited our synagogue. I have read news of many moderate Muslims in Canada and the Middle East, certainly including our own Irshad Manji. I think it is so important that people look to the behaviour of their "own side". I have no connection or influence with the Palestinian community, but I do in the Jewish community.

As Amos Oz, said when the fire burns higher, we must all continue to bring our little spoons of water to try to put it out--maybe we'll succeed. In the meantime, my family grieves deeply for the thousands of Palestinians killed or injured and for all of the Israelis killed or injured (one of whom we may actually know). Shalom, salaam, peace.

Hi David,

There are a lot of people in the same boat as you. I am from Sri Lanka, a war torn beautiful island off India. If I criticize Tamil Tigers, I will be a traitor. I would be killed if I criticize the government actions.

We are all living a big box.

David and Dave, you're identifying a problem that we all face. It's disgusting to go to a program on Israel run in my city, and be told "It is incumbent on all Jews to vote for Harper, because he's 'good for the Jews'." (Is he good for Canadians?).

The people who purport to represent mainstream Jewish views about Israel are the David Frums (his poor mother must be rolling in her grave). There are many, many voices of protest within Israel, which is the least monolithic society one could find - Rabbis for Human Rights, the New Israel Fund, and many others.

I find myself turning the TV off when the news comes on, as the reports tend to be one-sided. My mother, who lives 30 km out of range of the rockets, sticks to watching Al-Jazeera English Language, as it is meticulously honest.

I have mixed feelings about this war. The death of even one child, whether by a rocket in S'derot or a bomb in Gaza, breaks my heart. I do not know the solutions, but I do know that our (Jewish) bible stresses, again and again, the importance of social justice. That makes you both very, very good Jews.

Good Jew, bad Jew, G-d will judge you,
we are dust.

But even dust can rise up to choke the living when the wind blows in from Gaza.

In a couple of years I would like to see Israeli cancer rates vis a vis the people of Gaza considering the depleted uranium used in Jewish bombs.

....any way the wind blows, doesn't really matter, to me, to me.

you can look and read this
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3568574,00.html

“I do not support the offensive in Gaza.”
As journalist what is your solution? And as a ‘Good Jew’ it sound almost a as “Good German”

Reading your article it brings me to see the “Love and Stockholm syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser” You display all the symptoms the Shame - Blame yourself for the poor abusers situation.

When you finally move to Israel, the price of housing in Sderot is very affordable you should try to buy a place and live there among your Jewish brothers for a while under the umbrella of the Hamas, so you will have the moral authority to claim that “I do not support the offensive in Gaza.”

David-I cannot understand why you feel you're a bad jew. I have a feeling that you are upset over what is happening in Gaza right now.

If it is-that is too bad. Israel has a conscious and it is fighting against people(and I used that term loosely) who have no conscious. Every single person in Gaza has a choice between right & wrong.

The voters of Gaza have chosen Hamas to lead them-they did not have to. If more of Gaza's people stood up and said enough is enough- we want peace-then eventually Israel would not have the rockets killing their children and peace would emerge.

The people of Israel are kind, loving, hardworking people-they really want nothing but to live in peace-fear from persecution. But unfortuately, there are people out there that thrive on hate-who teach their children to hate & you know in your heart that Israel does not teach their children to hate.

I humblely suggest you have a heart to heart with your Rabbi and try to understand what the real issues are. The Jewish people, I'm sure, want to you to reflect on things but please don't feel that Jews are bad people because they are not.

Hi David,
I think the U.S. should carve out a bit of land for a new Isreali state. The present one depends so much on the U.S. anyhow, the may as well be part of it.
The advantages would be: liviving in a land without enemies all around, no more spending so much on defense, and the Palestinians would get back their land.
A win-win situation, all around.

There is a need for more non-Zionists to speak out. Ever since it's inception the far right in Israel have doen nothing but, antagonize their neighbours,and when they are retaliated against do what they have done for centuries LIE. As you know David the whole point of Olmert and the Likud Party and other hawks is to have the biblical borders Land of Israel,as the true leader of the mid-east. It cannot crate Peace as that is not in those hawks ideology. How is it that you have failed to recognize the constant lies that have come out of Israel in it's justification of war, how many other UN Peacekeepers and UN buildings need to be murdered and destroyed before you do something more than write your sad sorry pity me tale?? How about the USS Liberty??? How can you believe the lie of Israel telling the world that Arabs want to wipe them off the map,let me ask you David.....WHO IS WIPING WHO OFF THE MAP...

Ever since 1982 and the Israeli complicity in the slaughter in Lebanon, I have strayed from the Official Jewish Party Line of support for everything Israeli. It has been painful because it often meant going against family and tribe. For others like myself, we either were quiet or ostracized.

To me being a Jew means being just.
It means respecting the rights of others and following the Golden Rule. It means caring about truth. It means using intelligence to understand history and not buying into propaganda, even tribal Jewish propaganda.
It means knowing that suffering does not mean it's OK to cause others to suffer.

There is a very nasty, almost disturbed text being circulated by a Dr. Rami Kaminski, a practicing psychiatrist. He sarcastically considers himself a "bad Jew" because he believes in defending himself and weaves the slaughter of Jews in Europe into the right to slaughter Palestinians in Gaza. Those who oppose that slaughter he somehow paints sarcastically as the "good Jews" because they are passive and will allow themselves to be slaughtered again.

I agree with Dr. Kaminski that he is a "bad Jew", but he is also a very disturbed human being. Shame on him for using what I assume is his intelligence to distort, buy into hate and never look at the causes of the violence in Israel, nor at the plight of a people who not only are not responsible for the actions that caused Dr. Kaminski to lose his humanity. They too are victims and have had their land and lives destroyed by those Jews whose hearts are filled with misplaced revenge.

First, Dr. Kaminski should learn the real history of Israel. Then, if he wants, let him take on anti-Semites in Europe today who love people like himself. For anti-Semites he is the personification of the Jew: greedy, tribal and nasty.

The good Jews, in my book, are the David Borzykowskis. They have kept their humanity, sometimes in the face of great loss. I am thankful Dr. Kaminski called himself as he sees himself, a Bad Jew...if only for different reasons.

You are right! And all of us Jews must look at the situation and carefully look at actions and thoughts behind those actions. The Torah tells us how to deal with others and those who choose life and torah know how to behave, those that reject torah and the law are condemned to fail in its responsibilities to those around us. Not aggressive but defensive actions are justified! It comes across as arrogant and hatred to Goyim - we are responsible for how others view us and should care about being a light to the world and not darkness to the world. To speak plainly! Live by example and don't be fuel for anti-semites the world over! We speak of T'kun Olam - Repairing of the world - But it must begin with turning away from arrogance and self centered hate and violence, this just fuels the hate that is directed at Jews. We become what they call us if we act like buffoons and care not for the world around us! Show them we have compassion and still defend Israel from its enemies. When growing up in Long Island my Mother told me - A menche never starts a fight but sometimes has to finish one to prevent someone else from getting beat up!