Daycare? Education? A single parent reacts to the budget
- January 28, 2009 2:33 PM |
- By Your Voice
Submitted by Alison Smith
Bio/About: I was born in Regina, raised in St. Louis, Missouri and graduated from Glendon College at York University. I currently live in Victoria, B.C., and am the single parent of a beautiful, almost-4-year-old boy.
My take: I have one comment on the budget: NO DAYCARE/EDUCATION funding!!! I see no point in an experienced/educated person with a job not being able to work because they can't find daycare/after-school care, or their daycare/after-school closes or is reduced in funds or staffing. Stupid.
I'd also like to know what I should do with my $150 in tax "relief" that I will be getting. Oh right, I'll relieve the cost of daycare. That will pay for two days of daycare a month.
If you include the $100 all parents get now, working or not, that adds up to three and a half days total per month.
Or, I will possibly pay half of what my childcare subsidy was reduced by because I have a good job, but am still a single parent.
Have you been personally affected by the budget? Send us your take.
Categories
All News blogs
Most Commented
Most Recommended
Citizen Bytes
Most Commented
Most Recommended
Recent Entries
- G20: Protesters, police, and civil rights
- Riot police surround G20 protesters in Toronto. (Carolyn Kaster/Associated Press)Submitted by Paul ManlyBio: Paul Manly is a filmmaker and community organizer based in Nanaimo, B.C. My story: I started my trip to Toronto at the Peoples Summit, which brought together... Continue reading this post
- G20: A voice from Malawi
- Dorothy Ngoma at Oxfam's Gender Justice Summit. (Allan Lissner/Oxfam Canada)Submitted by Dorothy NgomaDorothy Ngoma is the Executive Director of the National Organisation of Nurses and Midwives of Malawi and a member of the W8, a parallel organization to the... Continue reading this post
- Bangkok protests: A Canadian shares her story
- Thai police walk the streets to clear any remaining anti-government protesters on in Bangkok, Thailand. (Wally Santana/Associated Press) Submitted by Elaine SaulnierBio: Orignally from Montreal, Elaine Saulnier now lives and works in Bangkok, Thailand.My story: I've been here in... Continue reading this post
Comments (60)
I hear you Alison!
We are a dual parent household, with two children age 5 and under. My husband is unemployed for the first time in his life, and about to receive $1400/month in EI benefits. BUT, we had to secure daycare in order for him to be free to start a job as soon as he finds (fingers-crossed) something.
We are paying $1550/month for the two full-time child care spaces. Even though I feel lucky to have a job, my salary isn't even enough to pay our mortgage.
If we weren't paying all that money in child care, we'd at least have something to live on.
It's illegal in my neighbourhood to have a secondary suite (thanks for the help there Municipal Government!), so we can't rent out our basement. We're considering taking in some home stay students to try and bridge the gap. Otherwise, we'll have to try and sell the house.
How does a couple hundred dollars in tax cuts make any difference? "Tax cuts for Middle Income Families" sounds like a good headline, but does nothing of substance for the people it's supposed to be helping.
This is very tipical thinking of American and Canadian families. This sense of entitelment. I am an emigrant. I came to Canada with two small children , paid my full fees for daycare etc. I saw many "subsidied" ones. I was never lucky to get one.
My question , why you structure you earnings that if one person is loosing the job you cannot even pay your mortgage. Don't you have to big house?
I totally sympathize with your plight. My son is a single parent with two daughters, and any "mad money" he might have had has been used for daycare.
I can't understand how we use public funds to pay for K to 12's but allot next to nothing for our 0 to 5 year-olds. The first five years are when most of our children's learning happens, but the people who look after them are overworked and underpaid, and often have minimal training.
Even non-single parent families usually need two salaries to make ends meet, so most of our children need to have some kind of daycare. We should have a structured system similar to K-12 where qualified facilitators are paid a wage equivalent to public school teachers.
I'm not an economist, but I imagine that such a scheme would benefit the economy in a number of ways--most importantly freeing up cash for families to spend--thereby boosting the economy and easing their heavy financial burden.
I agree with you Alison, our day care system is a disgrace and it shows the governments priorities. We are talking about the care of our future, our children, they are expected to pay taxes eventually and to secure the pensions for us all, but now we parents don't get any help from the government to raise them?
I am also an immigrant and Canadian citizen, but I think your comment is unfair, Halszka. Canada is a G8 nation and as such we pride ourselves to be among the leading developed nations, but our rating for our day care system is the worst amongst the G8 nations. It is not about a sense of entitlement, every country (especially the rich countries) should look after their future citizens. I don't even want to start talking about the bad state of our schools. They are a disgrace too.
We pay a lot of taxes don't we? But they are not put to the best use. Instead car companies who refused to see the signs of time and develop more fuel efficient cars, smaller cars, electric cars get my tax money to bail them out and therefore the government is supporting their wrong decisions in which I had no say! At least if we invest in our children, Canada's and the world's future, the money will be put to good use!
I'm on the fence with this one. Halzska has a point, but at the same time, compared to other countries, our childcare and education systems are despicable. Raising a family is a choice that we make, and having the funds available to raise a family is our own responsibility. However, post-secondary education in this country is to the point where anyone wanting to start a family of any sort has to wait years upon years to repay the debt they've accumulated to start their career in their chosen field. We hear so much about this field needs employees and this trade is hurting for workers, but if you actually try to get your foot in the door, you'll find it closed, even to those who have the education. So what are we to do? Work for 15 years at a lower wage job to pay off our student debt so that we can afford to start saving to get married and have children? That seems to be the only option.
The government is simply not responsible for your life choices, ie family size, house size/style, education type. I only wish for the government to supply and support infastructure so as we can make responsible choices. Conversely many of us make irresponsible choices and lean on the government for their contribution. This sense of entitlement is way off base if we are to be a successful society.
A few things that weren't posted here, but I feel have some relevance (and were originally posted in the above article on my Facebook page):
Just a side note in reaction to my comment on the CBC site, from a user who commented on my childcare subsidy [paraphrasing] that s/he did it without any government support, "I raised mine, you raise yours."
I was adopted as a baby. My birth mother gave me up because it would have been "basements and babysitters" for me, and although she wanted ... Read Moreto keep me, she opted to give me the opportunity at a better life.
Since then, I reunited (15 years ago now :) with my maternal birth side - it's one of the reasons I moved out West. They are now Grammy, G'pa T., Auntie, and Uncle to my son.
When I got pregnant, I had two choices (the other decision we'll leave for an entirely different argument): to keep the child or give him up for adoption. With the Single Parent Resource Centre in Victoria, Childcare Subsidy and Rental Assistance Programs, Child Tax Benefit and a hell of a lot of hard work searching for & securing daycare, I kept this beautiful boy in my life.
POINT BEING: We want a better life for our children. My parents, birth mother, step-Dad, and the rest of their generation, I believe, have done that. Now it's our generation't turn. Are we really doing our children's generation any good by creating this massive defecit?
Daycare should be free. How ignorant can our politicians be to the fact that OECD countries with free daycare have to spend less per capita on other social programs, have higher literacy and graduation rates, greater GDP per capita and higher productivity. Do the math and think about your neo-conservative principles with a little wider perspective.
And no, Halszka we do not live in a big house. It's smaller than most condominiums, needs energy efficiency upgrades in the worst way, but it's close to town. We chose to live near where we work, and schools, because we didn't want to be apart of the carbon spewing commuter problem.
We paid dearly for our little old house. And we have just enough savings to be out of work for a couple of months. I never thought this day would come, considering how well the economy seemed to be getting along the last few years. I don't think I am suffering from a sense of entitlement. I just don't want my tax dollars wasted on things I don't believe in (Afghan Mission!), I'd much rather see it going towards the care and nurturing of my children by well paid, well educated child care workers.
I am also a single parent - I get no subsidies for child care !
Nor have I ever. I work full time for under 10$ per hour. I dont recieve child support either. I pay full price for child care. and my prayers every night involves " Dear god let there be enough food for the children".
Food bank? would if I could afford a car to get it with. I live in a small community and have no bus service in the area.
The children and I walk 5 miles in one direction to the sitters and then I walk back to work about the same distance - then proceed to put in a 8-9 hour day on my feet and then walk back to get the children and then home again, to share a box of no name mac and cheese with two children( I dont bother to eat until they are done and I scrape the pot with a spoon for me.)
I wish I could afford a veichle and owning a house is completely out of the question. I have been trying to get child support for 9 years and still no enforcement action by child support inforcement offices.
Lets put some money into nailing these dead beat parents.PLeasssseeee!!!! sell the big house and walk - at least you can feed your children! and try to live without subsidy!!!! Another 100$ a month means that I can cook 2 boxes of mac and cheese or heaven forbid a package of hotdogs to go with once a week and my children can have milk at home once and a while not just at school or the sitters.
My pay checks go to the sitter and my child benfit check pays the rent. Try living like that! I'm sure there are other people who do. So if they want to throw me a 100$ dollar relief- hopefully I really will see it every month, I will gladly take it and think it could be worse. I could live on the system and be better off-no childcare expences- but what good does that do myself,my children or my country?
Well Im off to work - after the walk I will have a coffee at work- its free! So stop whining about your big house and your big morgage payment and live within your means. The rest of of have to.
The country could take lesson from this too, if everyone lived within thier means there'd be more to go around. The credit crunch would not be as harsh and going into debit(by the government) could help where it is needed- low income families.
Singleparent, Admittedly, I don't know what the support is like in Ontario, but it's got to be as good (if not better!) than out here.
I know from friends who I went to university with (who are just finishing off paying off student loans, and some that have bought modest houses on top of that) there ARE programs there i.e. child care subsidy, parent support centres/groups, etc.
I don't know if you are in an urban area or not (it sounds like not), but there is always support from friends/family if you ask. I know it's hard to ask, and hard to keep up with contacts when you're so busy, but it can be done.
I, too, did not have suppot for the first two yearss - it was tough! But that's the bullet he shot and I bit it. So you deal.
We DO live in a G8 country, and we - like other G8 countries - SHOULD have a better plan for daycare. The Conservatives scrapped both the Liberals' plan and the NDP's plan by having all these elections, which was a WASTE of time (even for the Conservatives the last one - they LOST seats).
If we put money into better infrastructure for education - INCLUDING daycare - and into salary/benefits support and training, we would have better adjusted children who are more prepared for 'the big school'.
It's not just a shame our current government doesn't recognize that, it's horrific. If we don't treat it as such, home schooling will grow and more people will be relying on public support programs like E.I. because they don't trust daycares (due to the risk of closure, high staff turnover rates, etc.)or the school system.
Patricia in Ontario-
I know it is hard to find the time and energy, but you need to do the research to find out the resources for low-income families like yours. You pray for enough food every night? Go to a church and ask the pastor there if they know of any help that is available. Also, sometimes churches run foodbanks, and may be able to give you a ride or deliver your hamper.
There may also be social housing available you could get on the waiting list for.
In Ontario there is a supplement available for child care expenses for working people like yourself who are not receiving fully subsidized care, for children under 7.
Otherwise, you might want to contact social assistance. They may have a top-up program or other contacts to programs and services to which you would be entitled. If you don't have proper food, it is your duty to access everything you can to support your children's health, even if it embarrasses you. Ontario Works may be able to help you. Good luck.
Oh, and I was a single parent for 7 years, with no child support and was a highschool dropout when I became a mom, 16 years ago. I am not judging you, I am speaking from experience.
As a single parent with no support from the other parent, and no family in town to assist me, I hear you! I'm well educated with a career. To work at first, while my son waited on lists, I had to hire a nanny - which although I make enough that I don't qualify for any government assistance other than the measly $100 a month, reduced my income so I was going into debt just to pay my low-for-region rent, groceries, and bills.
Something has to be done to increase the number of daycare spots available, at reasonable prices. Simply dropping the price per day won't be sufficient, but it'd be a start!
This question of public policy needs an accurate description of the value of child care to society. The varying stories of individuals are inspiring, interesting and tear jerkers sometimes.
But...
From the perspective of the payer (society)
what are the immediate, medium term, and long term benefits?
There is the arguement that carries weight with policy makers.
The benefits are conclusive if you include the long term (ie how the kid turns out).
Then if you want anecdotes, describe it from the perspective of the child.
By bias:
Child of 2 hard working prairie born parents, One of 2 parents of 2 children>2 yrs
single income,
technical diploma, tradesman,
currently employed FT, fingers crossed.
Why people have so much education loan ? This is beyond me.
When I came to Canada, I started immediately saving for my children education. I never went to restaurant, bought coffee or tea etc. I saw other spending few bucks a day on that. 5 a day is 25 a week ,1300 a year and almost 20000 in 15 years.
Even with no interest there is enough for college of BA degree tution. I took CGA courses at night one at a time . It took me 10 years to get my designation. I never took a loan for kids education. I accumulated enough to pay for theirs.
Some advise. Share responsibility with friends. Share accomodation with friends. Share food with friends. It will be so much easier. Do not wait for Government to arrange free daycare for you.
Allison, I don't know how you do it but keep it up!
This Government simply doesn't understand how important a National Daycare Program would be to the economy, let alone working families.
Even in this downturn we need people available to work. Demographics alone will dictate a growing need for people to work and pay into the system. Pensions and the rest of our Social safety net demands it.
Harper blew the Federal surpluses to ensure that any new Liberal government would have to raise taxes to create a National daycare program. Where are we now? No daycare, no surpluses and ten years of paying down the debt down the tube.
Parents need to start demanding action from every level of elected officials and stop electing Harperites!
The old myth of a possible universal child day care program would be great. Or some kind of standardization of programming and subsidization across the provinces. That $100 is a measley kind of incentive to stay at home. It would be better to increase the cut-off income for CCTB and NCB and add that amount to the non-taxable monthly payment of those programs, and then to seperately fund child daycare.
In Alberta I worked in a day care centre (private, licensed), and afer exhausting the then-max 6 months of mat leave, I stayed at home as a licensed child day care home provider. The licensed home provider is paid less by the province, for providing the same care, and often for little babies, which need more individual care. Don't we want people to work and make money? dont' we want people to go to school and educate themselves so they can get those better jobs? Affordable, or in fact public, licensed and regulated child day care and early childhood education makes that possible. And freeing up loving mothers to do that, by providing care they can afford and depend on, puts those motivated women into positions where they can really experience their potential. Can we afford to waste them?
I would prefer income splitting for families with young children and additional tax credits for each child you have. As a single parent you can claim your child as equivalent to spouse for a tax credit.
I don't believe Gvt run daycares or infinite funds for parents to spend on day cares are reasonable solutions.
We had to choose what to do, so my wife stayed home (12hr/day, 6 days/week job wasn't family friendly) and started her own daycare. Certainly not $75/day less than half of that is the fee.
1st you should talk to you employer about the importance of a daycare at the office and if that doesn't sail consider living in a areas that has more affordable daycare ($75/day?!)
To Halszka I congratulate you on what you have accomplished. You are the ideal immigrant. To all the single parents where are your spouses and your support? Why should taxpayers who work hard for their money to have to pay for YOUR decision to have children and your decision to live a single life?
To those that have lost their jobs, I lived through three, yes THREE downturns, recessions, depressions, take your pick they all meant the same to me and we had to move to find work and even when we did we had to start WAY BACK at the bottom of the pay scale every time BUT we made it each and every time so don't tell me it can't be done. And, one other little thing, I have an educated daughter who is married and has children and yet with one income she can afford to stay home (they own their own house), feed the kids, buy nice clothes, have two vehicles, pay insurance etc.etc. and not one penny does she ask from the hardworking taxpayers of this country and NO, her other half does not make a six figure income either.
And also remember when you send YOUR children to school that some hardworking taxpayer is also paying for your second and third etc child to go to school even if they have no children of their own. They are FORCED to pay for your children not by choice. So folks, if you plan to marry and have children why not make sure that you have enough money saved up in case of emergency down the road and stop asking other hard working people to look after YOUR chosen lifestyle.
We should pay moms to stay home and do the job that's most important - taking care of their children and husband.
Don't think I'm a conservative weirdo, either. I'm a well-educated engineer with a good career.
However, I would give it all up to stay at home if and when I choose to have children. At least until they're in school, and my husband and I can arrange to have someone home with them at any time they're not at school.
Why do you think the government should have to take responsibility for paying for childcare & your education????
People like you make me ill.
We need small government and more people who take responsibility for their own lives and quit shoving their incessant demands down the overburdened middle class families throats. THAT'S WHO IS PAYING YOUR SUBSIDIES, LADY!!!
You're better off than them!
Allan-67, Want to hear something ironic? I work for the provincial government, and to my knowledge they only have ONE gov't-related daycare (as in, it just happens to be next door to one of the many locations) in the city.
Joyce, I didn't CHOOSE to be pregnant - I had a plan, and it was about 10 years down the road. It was blown to hell when I got pregnant. I sacrificed a 20-year career to get a stable (and now even that's in question) gov't job that held regular daytime hours to coordinate with daycare.
I was forced to nanny-share with three other families (and childcare subsidy pays less for in-home care, if at all) because there were NO daycare spots available to any of us.
We live in a country where we are free to make our own choices. I don't want to pay a penny for the auto industry's lack of intelligence in not recognizing their product was no longer selling and they needed to change their product line to fit the changing market demand. But I will be anyway. I don't want to pay for the Olympics (which is coming to CANADA, not just BC!) and as of yet the feds haven't put any money towards that and the BC taxpayers (which includes the places the Olympics won't benefit) are on the hook for that.
So please don't tell me not to use systems that were set up to help Canadian families & communities. In a free society, there are ALL kinds of families - and there always will be, moreso now than ever! I don't WANT the support, but I do want to give my child as much opportunity as one who was 'planned'. He didn't choose when he was born, why should he be penalized?
I, too, am a single parent completely frustrated with the cost of daycare/after-school care.
When my husband left for greener pastures, I was working up north with a work arrangement of about 20 hours/week. Considering the remote location away from family, I had to apply for a transfer which was accepted. My new work arrangement in the Lower Mainland was 12 hours/week plus any on-call shifts that were available. With my son being 4 at the time, I was working as much as I could just to pay the rent.
The childcare subsidy was a complete joke. The "parental portion" I had to pay took everything I had left, including grocery money. And no, I was not sitting at home with cable and internet, etc. I would have been better off to quit my job and go on welfare, but I was hopeful that my situation would turn around eventually. Over the next two years, I was able to transfer around and get work arrangements from 12 hours to 20, 22, 32, and now after 5 years I've finally obtained a full time position.
Would you believe that my childcare subsidy cut me off when I reached about $15,000 per year? My bi-weekly paycheques were less than $500 after taxes. I could have cried (and I'm sure I did) when the Universal subsidy came out for children UNDER 6. Here I was, struggling to survive, and because my child had just turned 6 we did not qualify. I work at a bank, and watched as dual-income families came in to proudly deposit their cheques - some families receiving more than one cheque if they had more than one child under 6.
And yes, I have gone to court to request an order requiring my ex-husband to help pay for childcare (under Special Expenses). Every time I do, he counters with an application for sole custody. So in order to receive the help I need, I have to defend my position of raising a son and tie up valuable court resources. Talk about STRESS!
The government policies around this are not only unfair, they are harming the very parents who take responsibility for raising our next generation. Constantly putting aside the financial worries (and in my case, court worries) in order to provide a fun, safe environment for a child is taxing. But not to worry, when stress gets the better of me I'm sure our medical system will take excellent care of me.
This is a hard one for me. My ideological side is fighting with my socialistic side saying if we could get subsidized daycare my wife could work more and ease our heavy finacial burdens. But where does it stop. Subsidy for everything? I know that we have two parents raising our three kids and that is different than a single parent. But I take resposibility for my decisions. I didn't engage in relations in ways that led to the possibility of children untill I was in a position to be a responsible parent.
On the other hand unveresal daycare would make things alot better for those children of parents who are not necessarily good parents. It would also make it easier to cop out for irresponsible parents. It is a tough call.
come on! we need day care and cheap so less people on the system and more people working. most single parent can not afford to work sad, sad, sad. i raised three girls on my own sometimes 2 to 3 jobs i dont know how i made it, but i did.
stop making it so hard for the willing to work. but when it costs more to work then to stay home on the system. what do u expect.
It seems silly to me to subsidize day care but not stay at home moms to same degree.
There also seems to be something wrong if it costs $800/kid/month for 8/9 hours. (Still have to pay for other 16).
We seem to have lost abillity to buy cheap vegtables, flour, etc, make our own *healthy* food cheaply, use reusable diapers that need to be washed ("so gross to modern people"), etc.
Same sorts of inefficiencies everywhere (eg $70+/hour per auto worker for wages, retirement, etc, board of corporation making 500x rather than 50x wage of regular joe) mean ecconomy gets crippled compared to 1950s.
Income splitting would improve things vastly, and while there should be some sort of subsidy for daycare, it shouldn't be detrimental to having a parent choose to stay at home to care for the child/children. It's my opinion that it should be able to be a personal choice whether one should have the child/children attend daycare, not necessarily a financial one. Each decision offers its own rewards. I don't think either decision should be punished, however once a child reaches school age there should be a vast incentive to get the parent back to work and off the "system".
I don't believe in free daycare. What does that say to our children? Just another in a long line of messages these days that you don't have to be responsible for your life... the government will clean up your mess. Are we really at the point where having children is just about procreating and not about being a family? If you can't afford to take care of your children, then maybe you should wait or change your situation before you have them. If both parents want to work, then be prepared to pay full value for someone to care for your children while you work. If you're not married, don't put yourself in a position to end up pregnant without a partner. If your spouse left you and is a dead-beat, well that's about the only time I'll consider support for you... that and if your partner dies.
And when people say that there is a sense of entitlement, they don't generally mean that in respect of having children. They mean that people who say they can't afford childcare or child-related expenses but still find a way to justify a detached home in a fancy neighbourhood with the big screen TV, 2 or 3 vehicles, satellite, internet, quads, boats, etc.. Sometimes you actually have to choose to consume less in order to provide for your family.
One other thing to consider... if finances are tight before kids - i.e. student loans, car payments, mortgage, etc. - it ain't gonna get easier after kids, so keep those legs together and keep it in your pants.
Alison Smith
The father of the child has responsibilities, why can't he help instead of taxpayers
I do not support free daycare. I am a single mother of one child and although things are not easy it is not impossible to make childcare mesh with working full time.
I work a compressed work week (36 hours, 12 hour shifts three times a week). These are not always ideal shifts for raising children, I don't really see them during days that I work.
What it DOES allow, however, is for me to childcare share with two other mothers, one of them a single parent, the other one not.
I pay NOTHING for childcare this way, it is simply like working an extra three days a week when I take care of the other women's children, the benefit is that on those days I get to spend fulfilling time with my own kids as well. Instead of depending on government to make childcare work, be CREATIVE.
"Joyce, I didn't CHOOSE to be pregnant - I had a plan, and it was about 10 years down the road"
Maybe you didn't choose to be pregnant but you choose a path that leads to pregnancy.
"We live in a country where we are free to make our own choices."
Yes, and that also means living with the consequences - not outsourcing them to the government.
The irony here is that if people didn't demand so many government services, you would have lower taxes and more money in your pocket to pay for daycare.
Halszka has got it right. Now matter what excuses you might offer, subsidized childcare simply shifts the burdern to other canadians who pay taxes.
If one chooses to have a child, then one also takes on certain financial responsibilities. Unless you are physically or mentally disabled, you must do what you have to do to raise your child. Do not ask my family to subsidize you, nor anyone else.
Why do people think it is their God given right to have free daycare. I do not have a problem helping a single, low income parent with daycare, but universal free daycare is ridiculous. Why should a family of a dual, high-income earners get free daycare, much less the $100 per month for each qualifying child. It is ridiculous that we, the tax payer has to support daycare for families earning two or three hundred thousand per year. I do not understand all the people in this country who feel they deserve everything for free: housing, daycare, food, healthcare, etc. It seems these people forget the "government" is really the taxpayers.
I agree with Halszka and the one who says we should pay mom's to stay home or income-split. I think that it is a choice to have children unless you were raped. Other than that, you made the choices that got you pregnant. Our society is so into bailouts that we forgot to face our responsibilities. I'm saying this as a father of 2 who delayed buying a house while working during hte day and studying at night. I had children BEFORE buying a house. One has nothing to do with the other. Children are happy when there is love and not in a house (appartments are fine).
Wow, different Canada here than the one I thought I lived in. In nearly every pre-western pre-industrial society, caring for the young has been a communal responsibility, yet here we are saying "...to heck with that, I'm not paying for your kids..."
Well I don't have kids, and I have absolutely no problem having my taxes increased to return to the ethics of community participation in child rearing. Hell, raise them again to help subsidize University if you want.
Our youth are the folks who are going to be running things soon, and I for one want them ALL (not just the privileged) to have a fighting chance at being the best they can be. If that means I have to pay for other people's kids day care and education, so be it. The end result is Canada's next generation competing on the world stage like no generation before.
Something to think long and hard about since my generation is going to be a major burden on the upcoming generation pretty soon, and relying on them to demonstrate a level of altruism that we can't seem to show ourselves.
Why are we willing to give endless dollars to the people who develop our resources, and precious little to those who develop our people...the most important resource we have.
A few of you live on the wrong side of the border methinks.
I would love to have in the long run a partner who contributes equally to household expenses. Even in that situation (and in the case of over 50% of Canadian families), we would still both work - hence STILL NEED DAYCARE. We wouldn't need subsidy at that point, presumably, with two incomes.
My point is that I shouldn't have to NOT work because I can't afford childcare and/or there are no daycare spots (the latter definitely posing a much larger problem!). [apologies for the double-negatives]
Tyler & Matt I ask: do you think other young adults on average 'keep it in their pants'? Did you - really?? I agree with you partially that anyone who chooses to have sex should ALWAYS be properly (and IMO over-)protected - for my son it only took once. I'm interested to know how this is only 'my mess' and not equally his father's responsibility? Oh how I wish men could be pregnant and understand that!! Perspective would change pretty darn quickly.
I want to see a plan created that supports students in ECE, ECE Administration, Business Ownership programmes. I want to see more daycares and daycare spaces provided. I want to see more monitoring of the Child Care Subsidy program so two-parent families stop committing FRAUD by saying their not married/common law (note to Revenue Canada: wanna bet it's not just Child Care Subsidy?). I want to see more support for eager-to-work single parents - no matter what situation they chose/ended up with because IT'S THE CHILDREN THAT MATTER. Especially the first five years of life - those years are the basis of everything else.
If I could put my share of my taxes towards another child's opportunity at education so their single parent could work INSTEAD of to bailing out the auto industry (who should be suing their marketers and developers!), I'd do it in a second.
When my kids were little I stayed at home and took care of them and we did without a LOT of things and some times it was tough, but they got the best care possible. We did without a lot of things of course but they were loved. We did not use subsidised daycare and although it was available, we perefered to know that our kids had the best care possible. Later on when our daughter had her child in a subsidized daycare it wasnt very long before we encouraged her to take her out of there because the care was substandard! I don't want to pay for other kids'care. I think we ought to take care of our own.
I've been reading all these posts and I am amazed by the number of people who are opposed to increasing funding for daycare. They are so shortsighted as to be nearly blind.
In a country like ours with a rapidly declining birthrate, our greatest investment in our economic future is maintaining our population. It's a simple number crunching game, no more. We need children, and we need to make it not only easy but very attractive, to people willing to do the hard work it takes to raise bright, healthy, happy kids. This way, we get a good society, and ensure a future for everybody.
This is not an area where we need to get into a lot of politics or philisophical discussions, or--heavens--some kind of holier than thou 'I have suffered more' martyrdom contest. It doesn't matter what people say or think about who's right or wrong.
In the end, the simple numbers will determine this country's future. For some reason(s), fewer people are having children now than ever before. Without the children, there will not be any future workers unless you open up the borders far more widely.
And how does that sit with all the neo-conservatives out there? Not well, I might suspect.
So, let's imagine that we make it really difficult to have kids, quash all funded daycare spots, and then discover that everyone has decided it really is too difficult to raise kids, or too distasteful, or too expensive, or too exhausting, or too fruatrating or too...well, it's not easy work, is it? On top of your full time job?
Then, we could live in a nice country of only adults, and only let in other adult immigrants to work in all the junior jobs. Have a nice, uncomplicated country with no kids at all.
Wouldn't that be just great?
My advice?
Do the math and fund the daycare. It's a better solution.
We have daycare already for ages 5-18, if you can't cover around 4 years of child care why on earth did you have a child? There seems to be a number of people whose "decision" to have kids is strictly emotional, no consideration of the realities of what one has to do seem to creep in.
Exercising your "right" to have a child does not inherently make the government or society responsible for tending your offspring. Looking to Europe as an example is done selectively, and is hardly relevant to what we choose to do as a society. More initiative could be taken by small groups and individuals: how about forming of child-care co-ops rather than expending energy demanding a new program?
Wow,
I am truly amazed at some of the ignorant comments in this thread. You made your choice, why should we subsidize you, lower taxes instead etcetera...
I wonder how many of you would react the same if you were in Allison's shoes.
The reality is having children is tough economically for any family save the wealthy,imagine what it's like for a single mother. Also there is no room in Victoria for kids right now, I know, I've looked.
I think the big point here is, quality daycare, full day kindergarten and extended school care benefits everyone when it's available and affordable to all.
More people working = more taxes paid = more government funds available for infrastructure and lowering taxes
Less people working= less taxes paid + more social benefits payments which equals less government funds and no infrastructure
Halszka is absolutely right. We should all do what he/she says. Revert back to the dingy 3rd world country that she/he is from. Drop our standards to barely meet the G330 level of countries. Life life like you're a piece of dirt. Let the politicians treat the electorate like they're scum. That'll show us all!
Let's add daycare to the many other things citizens believe the government should provide, right?
I find it interesting that none of the so-called "childcare activists" have ever been able or willing to provide even the roughest idea of what their plan would cost; heck even round it off to the nearest billion.
I'd imagine it'd morph into another black hole of government spending, like healthcare and education, where there's never enough.
In fact, John L from Ontario, the child care advocates HAVE come out with cost estimates.
In fact, the Regional Child Care Council here in Victoria published a report sharing just how much it would cost for a system here in our region. Google it.
There aren't enough spaces. There aren't enough QUALITY spaces. Child care workers are paid dismal wages. They are leaving the field in droves because of those poor wages, and long hours.
And thank you to all the enlightened commenters for your sense of social responsibility. According to the last polling information I saw, 80% of Canadians believe in a Universal child care system. But, like many issues dear to Canadians, this Minority government doesn't agree, and doesn't believe in compromise.
Quebec already has a system, and parents pay $7/day for care. It has raised the average wage for women in the province, decreased child poverty, and it has improved their ever-low birth rate slightly.
And while you're at it, Google 'Dr. Fraser Mustard' and 'The Early Years'...if that doesn't convince you, nothing will.
Michelle,
When you and your partner had decided to have kids and buy a house was finance a part of your decision. I am getting layed off this week,but because my wife and I had not got in over our heads we can afford to daycare, and mortgage without goverment funding. My point is that most people spent more than the can afford and this includes children and daycare choices. Why should the goverment pay anything.
What era are we living in? Pay moms to stay home? How about pay PARENTS to stay home!?! I am tired of my at-home husband being marginalized. No, it's not because he's unemployed - it was our choice for me to work and him to stay home. Simple comments which don't include both parents are hurtful and misguided.
Michelle
Alternatively you could simply share the numbers with all of us here; n need for specifics, just an overall number. Then we can extend it to the million or so kids who'd qualify and get an idea.
Thanks!
Okay, the magic number is about$8,900/child in public funding so the same sort of plan, Canada-wide would be somewhere in the range of $9 billion
As a working parent (dual income family) with two preschool children in full-time care, I certainly would appreciate universal, subsidized daycare. But there would still be a space issue; it is extremely difficult to find space for young children. I was faced with the possibility of sending my two little ones to separate facilities before two spots opened up in the fabulous licensed home centre they currently attend.
Furthermore there is the issue of staff retention - let's face it folks, the people paid to take care of our children are completely underpaid and we can't blame them for not sticking it out long in the child care business. Even with wage subsidy programs for child-care workers, the wages are low and many workers are having to pay for childcare themselves. I don't know what the solution is, but like many others, throwing money at the problem is unlikely to fix it completely.
Quebec already has a system, and parents pay $7/day for care. It has raised the average wage for women in the province, decreased child poverty, and it has improved their ever-low birth rate slightly. Michele
With all due respect, Quebec has been a 'have-not' province forever;in fact, through the creativity of 'equalization payments' we are actually helping to pay for their excellent daycare.Perhaps it is time for Quebec to help pay for the needs of other Canadians re: childcare.
Something has to be done about daycare for everyone, for the one that can afford it and the one that can't.
For the one that can there are no spots available, period!!!, there are long waiting lists, I was on a waiting list for months and months!! I looked everywhere praying to find one so that I could go back to work on time.I was lucky to find a good caregiver that provides child care services at her own home.
I would love to have another baby, but with this crappy economy and the childcare cost makes my dream "un-affordable" I do not want to worry about the same things people are talking about in other comments about feeding their family and subsisting in a low income.
I dont over spend and we live withing our means. SO THERE! People stop having children if you cant afford their education and mostly if you can't feed them, DONT EXPECT others to do that for you! It is your responsability as a parent
Why should I have pay for all other people to stay home and for their child care. Give me a break. I have children and don't get any childcare assistance, GST, Child-Tax Benefit etc etc. I do it all myself. I had children when it was stable to do so. Just like my parents did and the generations before.
What has happened is that people in todays society feel they are "entitled" to what others work for. Self entitlement is a "thinking error". Period!
Try doing something for yourself people and don't rely on everyone else to do it for you!
Allen 67
You seem surprised at the $75/day for daycare. I looked at subsidized daycare a couple years ago when we lost our longtime caregiver. Our family income(2) was about $80K and a subsidized spot was $1400.00 per month. The real killer here is that this $1400 per month PER CHILD. At the time we had 2 kids in need. Thats $33,600.00 per year of AFTER TAX INCOME. Needless to say that was not an option.
What is Alison's salary? Does "good" mean $75M (way above the average); if so, why does she need subsidization? (The cost of it would far outway the amount of tax she pays, so that it's hardly a "good" action. Also, many people get less than $1400 a month from a job. I suspect the loudest whiners are the people who refuse to live simply (we HAVE to have a seven-room detached house; we will NOT rent out part of it; we HAVE to live where there's little or no public transit; we HAVE to have two five-week vacations annually.) Result: if we lose a day's pay, we're in trouble. Cry on another shoulder.
All these posts have been interesting to read. I do feel for single parents who have been thrust into a difficult situation through no fault of their own and perhaps there should be some assistance for people in these situations. However, I am sick to death of paying for people who are irresponsible and fail to plan.
Heres a thought! When my wife and I were planning to have children we asked ourselves, can we provide and educate these children. We are both employeed and educated people. If we were faced with a job loss we would swallow our pride and DOWNSIZE our assets to ease the financal burden.
It is a very simple principle that my parents taught me that seems to have gone by the way side in recent years. DONT LIVE BEYOND YOUR MEANS. In these financially strained times it's enough for me to pay for my own children without having to pay for yours as well.
Halszka ,you will probably provide your children with good money management skills. While living off one income and banking the second makes wonderful financial sense. It is not always an option for low income or single parent families.
Halszka ,you may want to ask your self why you came to Canada was it to provide a better life for you and your children? Education and care for young children is a reasonable expectation for a wealthy western society. Access to that needs to be available to all regardless of income.
Affordable quality daycare will put more money in your pocket to provide other opportunities for you and your family.
Our society benefits from our older children receiving free education that benefit increases the earlier we provide childcare and education.
Check out the web site below
http://www.childcarecanada.org/pubs/pdf/BN_ecec_and_economy.pdf
Some of the very vicious comments against a national system seem to be contrary to what Canadians are supposed to represent as a nation. Supposedly we are looked on as a country that takes care of our citizens as a part of our social reponsibility. Wow ! what happened to warp your views of that. We have a Health care system that many countries envy. Even though my family is very health conscious and we take care of ourselves because of these choices we very rarely need to go to the doctor.
Our tax dollars still take care of those who choose to smoke, drink and who do not take care of themselves. We do this because we believe that all in our society are important. We pay for education for all children even though some choose to homeschool and use private schools. This is because we believe that it is vital that all children have an opportunity to have an education.
But somehow before the age of five people seem to think that we as a whole society gain no benfits that will give these children the best possible opportunity by providing quality care to all. (all parents are not always the best to take care of their child each and every day) The long term benifits are enormous. Children who learn at an early age learn how to learn. which then immensely increases their abilities in our school system, better mental health for the parent and child which also affects crime rates.
There is a domino effect. You want a better society? you have to start at the youngest and work from there. Children do not begin to learn at the age of 5. We are supposed to be in a country that cares for one another not one that puts each other down. Many of you need to get some SOCIAL reponsibilty..this has always been something that set us apart from our neighbours to the south. They love the every man for himself philosophy and apparently it has seeped into our own culture. Personally I want a country that places a value on each of its members without the guilt and the "pedestal" view of many in this discussion.
I find it funny that the Government is supposed to be responsible for your child's care. Granted there are a few situations like a bad divorce with no child support but basically thats about it. Why should I have to pay to take care of other people's children? I'm almost 30 and have had many "opportunities" to become a parent but the responsible decision was to not go that route until I could ensure my childs future. Bottom line : Why should the rest of us have to pay because you decided to have children you cannot afford?
I'm a little confused.People keep talking about poor subsidized childcare. I have a licensed family daycare in BC. Here, it's the parents that apply for subsidy, index based on their income, and then it is paid to whichever childcare centre that they wish to take their child to. It can be a private high-cost centre or a lower priced licensed childcare centre, but the subsidy amount stays the same with the parent paying the difference. Any of these are government inspected and licensed. We are all required to take training and provide a program. The regulations and requirements are immense. If someone chooses to take their child to a non-licensed centre, or have someone come into their home, their subsidy is at a lower rate. Here in our town, daycare rates vary from $20-50/day per child depending on age and program offered. I charge $30 day(fullday) and that includes my program, field trips and transportation to schools,preschools,etc. I'm the norm...Some (not all!) parents do not want to pay this. Childcare is the least of their priorities. They don't realize that we are actually raising their child for them and they complain about having to pay us...but they don't have a problem dropping cash for cigarettes,etc.
I have another perspective. My husbands pay child support for 2 children from his 1st marriage. On-top of that we pay for "extra-ordinary" expenses. We pay all travel cots for his kids ($3600/year -even though the mom moved away). We pay for braces, and we pay for medical/dental insurance. In total we pay out $1560/month, and that is AFTER tax.
His ex-wife had 100% daycare subsidy, and she gets the $800/month tax free in the CCTB (Canadian child tax benefit) for their 2 kids. She also gets $60/month GST/HST and gets to claim all the tax breaks and benefits for the kids, around a $4000/year benefit (or more).
Now, as a 2 income family we get NO day-care help (other than the $100/month) because our income is deemed TOO HIGH. However, they do not minus the $1560/month we send away, which does not benefit our 2 kids or go into our household, although WE pay taxes on it. We qualify for $90/month in CCTB (for 2 kids) because AGAIN, they don't subtract the child support leaving this house, when figuring out how much CCTB for our kids. With all her benefits and contributions from us, her household has a "true" higher income than ours, with BOTH of us working and making substantially more than her.
You hear stories of single moms having a hard time, when they get no help from the ex. While I do feel for them, there are also ALOT of families like ours out there, We pay so much for the first kids, that the second family suffers and benefits that the single moms gets (his ex doesn't even claim $20K of her income as "income") like for daycare etc. are not available to our kids because we appear (on paper) to make too much money.
The Canadian guidelines for child support also require the ex-husband to pay a share of day-care, ON TOP of child support, in porportion to his income. Most men DO pay their share, and the stories we hear where dads don't pay for their kids after a divorce are NOT the norm.
From my perspective, some single moms have it ALOT better than second families (I know all don't have it better so please don't jump on me), whose kids don't recieve benfits or subsidies in relation to their TRUE household incomes.
I love these comments about why should we tax payers pay for your child care subsidy?
Think about it for just ONE second and see if you can figure out what is wrong with that question.
Figured it out yet?
These people who need child care subsidy need it so they can go to work. You know what happens when you work? YOU PAY TAXES! So we ARE in fact paying taxes to the program that helps us. So get off your high horses and smell the coffee. It takes a village to raise a child.
I had my child when I was 35. My ex decided he wanted to be a cokehead and not a parent. He comes from a province other than this one because he is avoiding a warrant for his arrest in that particular province. I found this out right before I left him. You want something to scream about? This is what he has done since we left. He has spent the past THREE+ YEARS living in a recovery house, ON WELFARE (there go your tax dollars for a criminal), WORKING UNDER THE TABLE all to avoid paying child support. He continues to abuse drugs just enough to stay in recovery. And you all just want to kick up dirt about your taxes helping single parents afford child care so they can work and set a good example for their children??
I do not qualify for full subsidy because I work evenings and w/ends (have been with the same company for 16 yrs) and that is all that is available to me. Do you know how many LICENSED day cares there are for those times? NONE. So right there I'm penalized because I don't have a 9-5 job. I make less than the two income families who receive full child care subsidy because they are fortunate enough to have 9-5 jobs. Is that fair? In BC child care subsidy isn't based on INCOME as it should be, it's based on if you can find a licensed day care.
Just think how many single parents could get off welfare (more of your taxpayer dollars) if they could find reliable, subsidized day care they could actually afford. I have actually found out that I would be better off if I quit my job and went on welfare, but that is not who I am, that is not what I want to represent to my child.
I'd love to have been able to raise my child without help from the taxpayers, but as a taxpayer I am at least contributing to these programs. Not like my ex who is living off you, comes from another province, and is a criminal. So stick that in your pipes and smoke it. Still want to fight about the child care subsidy?
Why not just make a Canadian plan that includes people who want universal social programs & those who do not! I am being facetious!
We are a welfare state, people. That is why we have such social provisions as universal health care which includes many other social services available to all. And so why not free universal education & child care for children 1 years old and over?! I am very confused as to why people think children under 4 yrs. old. do not deserve the same services as those 4yrs. and over. Consider this, the research clearly indicates that all children would benefit from high quality, affordable & universal child care.
It just makes sense that we provide free child care services - not highly subsidized either - so that all children can grow up healthy & well-educated and will, in turn, pay high taxes to pay for all the free health and social services we all need as we age.
Perhaps those who dispute this may reconsider if there is not enough money in the coffers when they go to collect their Canada Pension Plan down the road - considering there will not be enough children now to support us later. Dispute this? Then you have not done your research and you do not know what you are talking about as this is the number one issue of all OECD countries (welfare states) dealing with the childcare dilemma.