Well this Ta in the above story definitely is a gentleman of honour! Thank you for making a point. However, as you are the only one, it is a point only you and a few will understand.

I began this strike thinking that the Administration was more in teh right, because I was told that the Union refused to negotiate with Management. When the truth came out, I realize that management was the one not bargaining for a very long time. That the Union did everything to prevent a strike.

My sympathies then went to the Union, especially when Management refused to put a freeze on Dean's and Senator's pay.

I was raised quite poor, and my family became financially solvent when my mother obtained a part-time Union job. She worked half the hours than my father and received twice the pay. Yet she only got $25/hr. So it is difficult for me to not see the advantages of having a Union, because that impacted my childhood so profoundly! There are serious differences between incomes of people in this province, and sooner or later the Provincial and Federal Governments have to do something about that. Is it fair for one family to earn more than another family, but because they live in Toronto, they are living in poverty?

The BTW legislation is a problem and part of a bigger problem, York was just where this problem came about, and showed itself. I thank the CUPE Unions for their valiant acts on behalf of all under-paid workers.

I certainly hope York University can provide proof that their offer was really teh best it could offer, but I do not recall them every trying to make their records public, or even get an independent Accountant to verify for the Union that the University was broke. I think that if the University had done that, and could provide proof, then the Unions would have settled a long time ago! But the University kept bargaining in bad faith, and thus nobody trusts them as their credibility disappeared.

As a graduate student myself, it is unfortunate you feel this way Sean, considering York TAs are among the highest paid in the country.

The fact remains, the average graduate TA working a mere 10 hours a week can pull in $15,000-17,000 a year. And while this may not seem like much, when coupled with an OGS scholarship or OSAP loan, this can add up to over $30,000. This is for working 10 hrs!

There are some people in this country who are also educated, work 40-50 hrs a week and don't make that kind of money.

I think it's also sad you can't see the larger picture. BOTH the union and the administration have put a gun to 50,000 students, in using them as a bargaining chip. These students are the ONLY ones who have truly paid for this.

The fact remains, the only individuals who deserve ANY sympathy on your "side" are the contract faculty (i.e. professors without tenure) because they get paid substantially less and have to reapply for their jobs each year.

The rest of you (i.e. the other 2/3s of the union) have simply argued for more money and a 2 year deal, so that in 2010 we can go through this all over again. Except this time CUPE would have more bargaining power as negotiations would coincide with those in other Canadian universities.

Money and power politics are an ugly thing my friend, and to claim this has been about "my liberal democratic rights" is ridiculous.

On a final note. As for the claim CUPE has given in substantially in their demands and have therefore argued "in good faith," this is ridiculous given that initial demands were for an equivalent 41% increase over 2 years. It's not so hard to come down from this kind of demand. You might as well have asked for a 200% increase. Or better yet, the moon.

I'm thrilled that the government stepped in. If the university and the union can't come to terms, at least now there'll be less collateral damage. Has anyone thought about all the hard-working people in non-academic roles at york and how this has affected them? The people who serve food to these grad students, for example, have been out of work for ages. If you want to talk about living below the poverty line, talk to them!

It's very hard to see it from your point of view, by the fact that you're talking about "below the poverty line".

If you had a real job, it wouldn't be a teaching assistant. That's like a co-op position. Once you graduate, go out and get a real salary!

I go to Sheridan, where we don't have teaching assistants, I guess we won't have the problems your union tends to inflict on people.

But since you're saying you're quitting, you did the one thing EVERY TA SHOULD HAVE DONE!

Quit and find a "better" job, because in this economy, $20-30 an hour rocks, and you guys should have seen that.

As a fellow graduate student and TA (in music, no less), I can say that you're deluding yourself if you think your "resignation" will make one bit of difference to anyone other than yourself. The school should have no trouble finding someone who is just as qualified and who will be thankful for the opportunity to develop their career without complaining about the pay.

Several years ago I was a TA at a major Canadian university. Our union did some good things for us, but it was run by greedy militants with completely unrealistic expectations when it came to negotiating a contract.

Like other posters have noted, a teaching assistantship is not meant to be a full-time job, and you can't expect to earn as much money as someone getting paid for 40+ hours of work per week.

Also, what about the students whose hard-earned tuition dollars are going to waste while the teachers are walking the picket lines? It's easy to blame someone else (i.e. the big bad university administration), but the teachers are the ones who made the decision to walk out out of the classroom.

As a TA myself (currently non-unionized, working at a major music conservatory in the USA), I have enough integrity to realize that being a teacher means fulfilling a professional obligation to one's students, not just looking out for one's own selfish interests.

As a contract faculty member myself, though at a different university, I support the contract faculty at York.

However, I am disappointed by your actions. As others have mentioned, you are still a student. That being said, you should feel exceptionally fortunate that you are able to earn excellent income (for the number of hours worked) while being a student. It is important to remember that the purpose of a TAship is to help you through your graduate studies, nothing more.

I have to agree with the appalled grad student (among many others) on this one. In no way should anyone enroll in a PhD program expecting to earn a living. If you do, you're in it for the wrong reasons. You're a student! The way that works is students PAY to receive an education which will improve their employment prospects and financial status - being a student isn't in and of itself a career.

This comparison to the poverty line is completely spurious. When I was a Ph.D. student some had scholarships/studentships and some had to be TAs, and teach TWO courses (at $15K each) to make ends meet. Sure it was hard, especially considering we had to pay tuition out of that, but the expectation was that we'd all move on at the end and get jobs (which I eventually did, thankfully).

If I'm on anyone's side here it's those sessional lecturers, with their rolling contracts that go on ad infinitum. They've made their sacrifices and deserve a break. This should be a completely separate issue; the grad student TAs who tag along with the sessional lecturers looking to make a few extra bucks should be ashamed.

Sean, I don't mean bad by saying this. I had it rough and complained a lot when I was a grad student, too. But I had to keep hoping there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully that now you've resigned as a student and joined those currently seeking employment, you will too.

The students should not have to suffer. Its not fare. They need to get their education. I am happy the teachers have been legislated back to work. I am sure they are being paid more than many other working adults in this country. We need to learn contentment and not greed.

Jackie

Excellent point Brad.

I am a PhD student and a TA as well. Two issues which I've posted on CBC before have been bothering me:
1) When you were hired (or admitted into school) weren't you told how much you are going to make? Why did you take the job (or accepted the admission offer) if it was outrageous?!
2) For all contract faculty, if you are unhappy with your pay or job conditions, maybe you should have had tried to get a full-time job to being with, and if you are terribly unhappy you can always find work elsewhere. Nobody's keeping you at York to gun point. Of course, you'll be lucky if you find a similar job with similar pay elsewhere during this economic crisis.

Let's not forget, our primary function is "studying" not TAships. Instead of undermining York, try to do well in school and maybe build a good reputation for your university once you graduate.

TAs and Sessional/Temp Instructors work very hard for the small amount of money they are paid. I'm sure many former TAs will attest to the fact that most work WAY more hours than they are paid for. In addition to that, they are expected to complete their degree - so tack on another 40-50 hrs a week.

Then we get to hear constructive comments like:

"want real money - get a real job"
"it's not like it's that difficult"
"I worked while I went to school"

The bigger issue is whether we should be making post-secondary education more accessible for undergrad and grad students by offering them a living wage/scholarships/reduced tuition while they complete their degree. Can't we discuss the issue at hand without dishing out unnecessary and undeserved criticism?

The idea that PhD or MA students should just "get a real job" misses some important points:

1. Grad students actually have two jobs. One is teaching/grading, the other is researching/writing. It's actually the second one that's more important, and at my school they've been very up front about the fact that the money we receive is more for our research than for our TAing.

2. TAs are often prohibited from holding other employment as a condition of accepting a TAship. And even if they were contractually allowed to have other jobs, they wouldn't have time for it. How many people with "real jobs" will work weekends for zero extra pay? Because grad students have to do it pretty frequently.

3. If we don't accept that grad students should be paid a living wage, who is left to attend grad school? A few rich people? Do we want the doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc. of tomorrow to be the people who are the most talented, or do we want them to be the few who were rich enough to be able to go without a "real" job for four or five years?

Between course work, research, and TAing, most grad students easily work 40-50 hours a week. I'm not really sure how a "real job" is supposed to fit in around that.

Wow! This is a monolithic, couragous stance. Linden McIntyre's "Current" discussion with a part-time faculty representative pointed to a number of factors which led to this unfortunate situation at York: number one being federal transfer payments to fund colleges and universities.

It seems like things haven't changed much since I went through UWO, finishing in the early 90's.
I had taken two full credits in dramatic literature with a wonderful professor/actor/ director, John Lingard. At the end of that year, John won the award for the best undergraduate studies professor. Just after hearing this news, I heard that John would be moving to Fredericton to take up a tenured position (one not offered to him in London despite years of superlative contributions) at UNB.

Hopefully Sean's departure resonates with the powers that be, and will be temporary. Hopefully, as such, his departure won't be felt with as much disappointment/sadness as I felt with my professor's leaving. Thanks for your efforts Sean.

You raise an undisputed point Garnetgirl. TAs and contract faculty obviously work extremely hard for the money they make. As a grad student myself I can attest to the fact that is is NOT always easy to make ends meet and complete required work. But the struggle continues, after all, I DID choose to be in this situation and was well aware of my funding (or lack thereof) before taking the graduate path.

I also think it is extremely unfair to focus on a rather limited number of comments, partial comments at best, and yet make the sweeping claim: "Can't we discuss the issue at hand without dishing out unnecessary and undeserved criticism?"

In fact, some of the comments here have been quite illuminating, especially given that they are from actual graduate students and TAs themselves. So much for "solidarity" behind an unwavering righteous cause.

It has been obvious to even us graduate students and TAs that there are OTHER issues at play here - other than moral righteousness of course.

The fact that there is a "bigger issue" about "making post-secondary education more accessible for undergrad and grad students" does not negate the fact that this strike has simply been about money and power-politics on BOTH sides.

Unfortunately, this has been at the EXPENSE of the education of 50,000 students, not in favor of it.

In fact, I speak from personal experience in such matters, as a former York student myself and given my better half still attends this university.

The bottom-line is that if it was truly CUPEs intent to "pave the way" for a brighter future for Ontario's education system (a rather chivalrous agenda), there are other forums for such matters - that is, other than holding 50,000 students as a bargaining chip.

Perhaps CUPE could have put as much energy into lobbying the provincial government or protesting on the front lawn of Queens park, as they did into this strike?

But wait, larger education reforms would essentially put CUPE out of business now wouldn't it? I mean who has use for a union if workers are happy and our education system ran smoothly?

Gotta love politics.

Play your fiddle somewhere else Sean. I and everyone else who has gone to university knows that TAs make damn good money for the actual work they perform. There are a line of people behind you who would love to get the cushy TA position to help pay for their education.

There seems to be some general and serious confusion about TA wages and how they relate to the poverty line. In fact, it actually enrages me and makes me wonder if some of these academics have ever worked a real job -- which many of MY fellow TAs haven't.

Earning $32, $38, and $40 per hour (depending on school and grad. status) is not below the poverty line. In fact, it is incredibly healthy considering you're not even finished your degree. They seem to miss that the reason they are below the poverty line is that they only work 140-200 hours per term (that's actually heavy for a TA), so the problem is in your hours, not your PAY rate. It doesn't warrant sympathy, and your education is to get you a high paying job later. You're not doing society a service, you're doing yourself one, so don't even bother with that line.

It astounds me that people bright enough for teaching higher education can't figure that out. If you TA hours aren't enough, go get a real job on the side. I know plenty of students who do.

Personally, I smile each time I look at my hourly rate as a TA, and compare it to the $8.60 I made at Wal-Mart pushing carts, before I took the bus to my night job to pay tuition during summers. Sometimes I think my fellow TAs are the most spoiled and ungrateful people I've ever worked with.

Three words for you: GET A JOB!

How would this TA have gotten his degree from York if there had been a strike while he was at school?

You have to be kidding me, you greedy, entitlement-driven elitist. I have a BSC, work two jobs and make less an hour than your average TA.

Give me a break and join the rest of us in the real world where wages start at $25K a year at the entry level for 48 hours a week without being intellectually stimulated and then tell me that you are hard done by.

What a pompous a$$!

Twenty-five dollars an hour is below the poverty line?

Try stepping into the real world sometime Sean.

I applaud the decision to quit. It is common sense to me that if you cannot make enough to support yourself then you should look for another job that will pay you enough. I don’t really understand why someone would be trying to earn a living as a TA. I find TA’s to be largely useless when I was in school and I thought these positions were for students to make a little money on the side. I don’t know what world some people live in, but from what I see people who have trouble paying the bills in school get real jobs and sometimes have to take fewer courses. Personally, I took a couple of years off to save money before I continued my school after undergrad. Do you expect the students or the ‘government’ to be somehow subsidising everyone’s education? Who is going to pay for that? I would rather spend that money on health care and social housing. This is the real world, you can’t just expect to have everything laid out and handed to you on a silver platter.

It is easy to throw out baseless allegations but there is no question in my mind that both sides bargained in good faith. There is no one sitting in the boardrooms thinking they are going to stick to the TAs and instead buy themselves new couches for their offices. The school has many budgetary needs to worry about it and with the economy on a downturn did anyone really expect that they would be able to afford big pay raises. Time to move on and start the classes before this fiasco spirals out of control.

Can't agree with the self-harming tactics. You've taken yourself out of the loop that was close to the issue and close to its players. Now where are you?

So you believe that falling on a sword is a good fighting tactic, but what do your wife and kids think? (If you're single, get used to being single - female humans have a way of understanding money issues better than male ones tend to.)

For all of you how tell us graduate students to get "a real job" try going to grad school and then snap at us. It is a real job. I work 50 hrs a week. I contribute to society. I teach, research, and publish scholarly articles. Without TA's universities cannot function. We are cheap exploited labor who do a VERY highly skilled job. You can't pull someone in off the street to do our work.

I'm tired of people who haven't done a PhD telling me that I don't work. I work. Hard. Ever day. And have lived below the poverty line for 7 years.

Going on strike for a part time job that you'll be in for a couple of years seems out of proportion to me. I just don't get it.

As a student working on my fourth year as an undergraduate at York, I find this post very surprising. In order to maintain an income during the year, I work 20-30 hours a week at a job unaffiliated with the school for $10 an hour. Granted, it does not require an education, but it's difficult, stressful and tiring work nonetheless.

As someone approaching the completion of their degree, I do not complain about my poor wages. The understanding that I am expanding my knowledge, and improving my chances to get a more rewarding and better paying job when I complete my education is enough.

Assuming the average TA makes about 17,000 per school year for 10 hours of work per week, they are certainly not being given an unfair wage. At my rate of pay, for 10 hours of work a week over 8 months, I would make about $3,200. That is a huge disparity, and honestly I find it insulting to hear that students with only an additional year or two of education could be complaining about a job which pays so well compared to most of their fellow students. I challenge any TA to find a part-time job that pays even remotely as well as their current positions. I can guarantee there are none to be found.

Boo hoo....welcome to the real world. Your position is supposed o be temporary, a valuable learning experience while continuing your education and eventually working in your chosen career. This position is not supposed to solely support you. You are a student. Save for, or get a loan for your education like every other student in this county. That is what you are...a student, earning some money while being educated. It is supposed to be means to an end. I believe that all of the striking Teaching Assistants should have been fired a month ago. Give their positions to Canadians who would appreciate the job and understand that in this day and age there is no such thing as job security. Wake up.

Okay, well good for you. Bye. You won't be missed.

This person is clearly delusional and deems himself entitled to far more than he realistically deserves. You are a student at an educational institution, not an employee in the work force. Do you expect York to pay your way through univeristy?

If you do not have the financial backing to undertake further education, than you shouldn't. It is no one's fault but your own that you can't afford to live the life you chose.

Life is all about making choices. It would appear that you made the right one for you. All the best in the future.

Take some thing practical, we all know fine arts degree ends up working as a waiter. If you have graduate degree in music, it is even worse. Get a real education and do not complaint. If you do not want one, do not stop our students pursuring one

Sorry brother but youre a TA in 'musicology'... I dont know what country or planet for that matter you think would say you should be making any more than what theyre giving you.

Just because you have a completely useless education (im sorry, I know its not useless.. but its not something you go into when money is an issue) doesnt mean you can demand more money at the only position where your skills are remotely usable (a teaching assistant)

This strike unfortunately enhances the bad joke "friends don't let friends go to York."

Wow. Smell you. Such an altruistic role model. A student giving up his teaching assistantship because it doesn't pay enough. Someone call the Nobel Academy.

@appalled_grad_student

You wrote:
"the average graduate TA working a mere 10 hours a week can pull in $15,000-17,000 a year. And while this may not seem like much, when coupled with an OGS scholarship or OSAP loan, this can add up to over $30,000. This is for working 10 hrs!"

Do you mean TEACHING 10 hours? or WORKING ?
Is that plausible?
Because on the Old Continent as on the New one, teaching "a mere" 10 hours a week at University level may not seem much either, but it does involve preparing your lessons, grading papers and assessing final exams. Which means you usually end up working about 25 hours a week on your teaching load.
AND you still have your research work to do, which is the other side of the (fake) coin.
Besides, as a TA here, you earn €1760/month at most, for 12 hours - I mean teaching)
Then again, when there's a strike (and before yesterday, French University teachers had not been on any strike since 1986, to my knowledge), students are very unlikely to ask for the repayment of their €400/year tuition fees...
I thought we were struggling because we were the last socialists/silly idealists on Earth in a country where raising ttuition fees is the Last Frontier.
Well, it turns out I was mistaken.

Here and now i confess to be a Conservative. If that sandbags my credibility - so be it.I cannot beliive the whining forom these TAs

Myy wife and daughter both graduated from UWO - '76 and'04 repectively. Both worked at menial part-time jobs and ended up in debt. Both women graduated, Honours Philosophy(wife) and Honours English(daughter).Having witnessed both journeys, I am filled with pride and respect for both of them. This nonsense about living in poverty is laughable and sad at the same time.

For the record,32 years later my wife still thinks a short sacrifice was well worth the enrichment her studies added to her life.Do these TAs all live in Jack Layton's riding?
Barry
Coulbeck

...and by the way, if anybody still reads this...
about the "get a real job" comments and the general contempt for such "useless" studies as "musicology" that I can see here and that is also obvious in France:

Would any of you tell TV news anchorpersons, extravagantly paid to work (apparently) two hours a day at most, that they should get a real job?

If TAs don't have a real job, what about tenured professors, then? because I can't see any difference in the nature of their occupations, except that tenured professors teach less hours.

And now a tongue in cheek remark, that is not meant to hurt anybody:
"You should get a real job!" was probably what sniggering Vikings used to tell the monks when they interrupted their manuscript copying to slit their throats.
This does not necessarily mean those monks should have been better fed than the rest of the population - which they were, quite unfairly.
Yet the usefulness of research or intellectual pursuits is often not immediately perceptible, even in so called "hard sciences": in 1900, you would probably have told Einstein to get a real job (and he had one! which prevented him from fully dedicating his time to his research) and you would certainly have thought that he was losing his time scribbling mathematical formulas ...

As an undergraduate student at York, Sean, I am think that you are being selfish in thinking that by quitting your TA job would bring any changes to the relationship between the union and the university administration. For three months, the undergrads at York had to sit around waiting each day to hear if there would be classes resuming. The anixety and the stress from those three months, still lingers around, and it is now May.

As many people, have previously commented, the TA position is a chance to gain experience while complete a Masters or PHD degree. Please be thankful that you have your Bachelors. I have been working three jobs, while going to school for the past five years to obtain my undgergrad, and have over 50K in student loans as well to show for it.

I have put myself through school. Students are not supposed to be in the category of receiving full time wages; full time wages come when you get a job beyond TA positions. In relation, to the wages being below the poverty line, please remember that there are those in this country and province, who go to Food banks and struggle to live month to month or day to day.

My Mom worked two jobs while barely struggling to pay our mortgage and still had to access credit counselors for past debts. There are people right now at this moment staying in shelters downtown because they have been unable to pay their rent or for other reasons manage to keep a secure job.

Please be thankful that you have had the priviledge of having a job that is secure and stable. I have had to struggle these past few months since classes resumed at York to pay my living expenses while trying to keep up with the condensed work load from my classes. My classes have been crammed from ten months worth of material into four.

I am not angry with the circumstances that have occurred at York from the strike with regards to the aftermath, but I am very disappointed that this whole situation had to result in so many students and other people that were affected in putting their day to day lives on hold so that the administration and the union could argue back and forth for three months.

The only ones out of this whole situation that deserve any consideration or second thought are the contract faculty for they are the ones that have to be secondary. I am not saying that TAs do not work hard; but these positions are only temporary. The contract faculty are the ones that have worked hard in fighting for each position that they have obtained. So, please remember that when a situation like this occurs, there is always going to be a ripple effect that affects more people than you think.