The Canadian Security Intelligence Service appeared to know about a bomb plot days before Air India Flight 182 blew up in 1985, two witnesses testified Thursday at the inquiry into the disaster.

Former justice department lawyer Graham Pinos, testifying Thursday, said he felt CSIS officials 'knew' of the bomb plot ahead of time.
(CBC)

Former justice department lawyer Graham Pinos recalled a conversation he had with senior CSIS official Mel Deschenes on June 19, 1985, four days before the bombing, while they were in Los Angeles attending international hearings on terrorism.

Pinos told the inquiry in Ottawa that he and Deschenes, a former CSIS counterterrorism director, discussed a number of items — including Sikh extremists — while relaxing poolside at their hotel.

"He perceived them as being dangerous and likely to bring a plane down," said Pinos. "I have an absolutely clear recollection of the circumstances. It was something that shocked me."

After hearing that Flight 182 had blown up over the coast of Ireland en route from Canada to India, killing all 329 people on board, Pinos said he immediately linked it to the conversation with Deschenes.

"I said holy expletive, they knew, they knew," Pinos testified.

Pinos acknowledged he has no proof the conversation was connected to the bombing, which investigators later blamed on extremists who wanted India to create an independent Sikh homeland. However, Pinos told the inquiry that he relied on his years of experience and gut instinct in forming his opinion.

"I had a distinct impression they knew," said Pinos.

He also said national security restrictions limited his testimony before the inquiry, which is looking into the Air India investigation and prosecution. The investigation was the costliest and one of the longest in Canadian history yet led to no murder convictions.

Cited urgent issue with Sikh extremists: lawyer

Former Ontario Crown attorney Michael Anne MacDonald, who was also at the 1985 L.A. hearings, testified earlier Thursday that Deschenes told her days before the bombing that he had to return to Canada in order to deal with an urgent problem with Sikh extremists in Vancouver.

Michael Anne MacDonald, testifying Thursday, said a CSIS official told her days before the bombing that he had to return to Canada to deal with an urgent problem with Sikh extremists in Vancouver.
(Fred Chartrand/Canadian Press)

MacDonald said she thought nothing of the conversation with the CSIS official — who was in L.A. to ensure no confidential Canadian information was made public during the hearings — until the bombing occurred on June 23, 1985.

"My immediate reaction was, even when they know something is going to happen, they can't stop it," MacDonald said.

MacDonald said she mentioned the conversation with Deschenes to legal colleague Jim Jardine, who was involved in the prosecution of Sikhs accused of terrorist acts in British Columbia.

"I told him 'They knew before the bombs went off there was a problem,' " MacDonald told the inquiry.

Deschenes's memos dispute testimony

Deschenes, now elderly and infirm, isn't expected to appear before the inquiry.

However, memos he wrote in 1988 were introduced at the inquiry Thursday and contradicted MacDonald's testimony.

In one, Deschenes says he left L.A. because he was no longer needed at the hearings.

In another, he says he told a lawyer friend he used the issue of Sikh extremism as an excuse to leave because he didn't want to attend a social event later that night.

A visit from CSIS?

MacDonald testified she believes her conversation with Jardine led to a 1988 visit from people she thought were from CSIS.

'I was distrustful of CSIS investigating CSIS.' —Michael Anne MacDonald

Four people in a black car with blacked-out windows drove up her driveway in Port Carling, Ont., MacDonald said. She said she immediately told her husband it was CSIS and that "you don't want them in your house."

MacDonald said two of the people wanted to come in her house and speak about what she told Jardine — a request she rejected until getting clearance to discuss the matter from the Ontario Attorney General's Office.

"I was distrustful of CSIS investigating CSIS," she said.

MacDonald said she contacted the inquiry in early May after Ontario Lt.-Gov. James Bartleman went public after 22 years with a stunning piece of evidence about the Air India bombing.

Bartleman told the inquiry that he had warned the RCMP about a specific bomb threat to Air India days before Flight 182 went down.

Judge rebukes government lawyer

Inquiry head John Major, shown in 2006, rebuked a lawyer for the federal attorney general during sometimes testy exchanges at the inquiry on Thursday.
(Canadian Press/Jonathan Hayward)

There were several testy exchanges between the witnesses and Tracey McCann, a lawyer for the federal attorney general who had MacDonald and Pinos repeat their testimony several times.

Inquiry head Justice John Major, a former Supreme Court judge, warned McCann she was wasting time.

"Repetition achieves nothing," said Major, who often interjects his opinions during testimony. "Give me credit for understanding when the question is asked three times."

Only one person ever convicted

The inquiry into the Air India investigation and prosecution started in 2006.

The luggage carrying the bomb and another that killed two baggage handlers at a Tokyo airport were loaded at Vancouver International Airport.

Only one person was ever convicted in the plot. Inderjit Singh Reyat pleaded guilty to manslaughter in 2003 and received a five-year sentence.

The suspected ringleader, Talwinder Singh Parmar, died in India in 1992 and the RCMP's two main surviving suspects were both acquitted in March 2005, after a 19-month trial.