CBC News Editors' Blog

It would be *great* to get this computerized stuff online for public access. And, by great, I mean that it would be a real public service -- many other organisations in Canada, and outside it too, for that matter, face these kinds of language issues all the time. Being able to use the "CBC standard" would be an immense time saver for many concerned, and I am sure it would do no harm to the CBC's reputation either!

I can see as how it would take some resources to get the stuff online. But, in the same way that it would generally be helpful once there, it is not hard to imagine that others would be interested in being of help in getting there in the first place.

I have been wondering about the change in pronunciation of the word 'Junta'. It seems like some of your news correspondents are pronouncing it with a hard 'j'. Why has this changed?

This is absolutely my favorite post on the internet by the CBC in the past 50 years.

Every sentence a delight.
Your "language police" can keep me arrested with your words any time.
And over-all informative in the bargain as well.
Like twenty million other Canadians, I basically learned the English language from broadcasters.
But I'll have to look up the word "pedantry".
Thanks for this.

I missed the moment when "Junta" (Hunta) became "Junta"...how did this happen, what figured into the decision? AS an old broadcaster I haave always felt that if they spell it H E R B then I shall pronounce it "herb". Maybe Junta struck you in the same way?

Thanks

Judy Maddren: In fact, the CBC recommended pronunciation of Junta has long been (before I even came on the scene in 1972) JUN-tah with a hard "J." It is the accepted anglicized pronunciation also used by the BBC and the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation.) The word is actually Spanish and/or Portuguese in origin, and thus would have two different pronunciations of the "j." In Spanish "H" and in Portuguese, a soft "J".

And as to pronouncing the "h" in "herb" YES!!!!

The best I've heard in years from your policy of allowing what appear to be interns to read news on CBC Ontario radio on weekends, "Norman Mailer's literary executor." As in execution.

Is there any way at all that you could use your influence and/or power to stop the use of "off of" -- as in "the wind is blowing off of the lake", etc. Please!

How is it that a lot of CBC and other radio broadcasters think they have, or are on a "show"? That is an oxymoron... they have a program!

I have a lot to get off my chest: I find the mistakes made by reporter/newsreaders very irritating and far too frequent.

Last night, a vehicle was described as careening, rather than careering. Of course (?), careening is the process whereby a beached ship is pulled onto its side for repairs. Searching the CBC website show that this mis-usage is common.
.How often does a reporter use litany, meaning a list of supplications/prayers, to mean any kind of list?
.As for like/as I think the battle is lost.
.A few years ago, the late Canada Now had a feature on the correct pronunciation of Kyoto. Clearly few inside the CBC heard it,as KEY-OH-TOE is the accepted pronunciation.

It may be a sign of my age that I regard the correct use of English the sign of an educated person, and downgrade the worth of ill-expressed opinions. Just today, on The Early Edition, I heard an academic use phenomena as the singular. Perhaps all is lost.

Bon chance !!!

Is there some sort of guideline at the CBC that says that all broadcasters/radio show hosts must pronounce the word "schedule" as "shedule"? Everyone at the CBC pronounces it that way, but most Canadians I know pronounce it "skedule".

While I'm at it, here are some of my CBC word complaints:
I wish there was a way to stop radio show hosts from using that horrible word "foodie". I cringe and turn off my radio whenever I hear that word.
I also hate the local CBC radio taglines, "So Montreal", "Totally Toronto", and so on. City names are not adjectives!

If "Myanmar" is illegal, let's just call it Burma! Mass hysteria will not ensue. If I have to hear "Burma, also known as Myanmar" (or vice versa) one more time, I'm going to lose it! I know this because I have already lost it the last thirty times I heard it. It really is overly cautious, and sounds silly.

Then why do the CBC's music announcers pronounce Italian words as if they were French? And why is the new in-verb "frequent" mispronounced, with the stress on the first syllable. "Myself when young did eagerly frequent/ Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument/About it and about/ But ever more went out by the same door as in I went." (Quoted from memory, but pretty much o.k. I think).

Junta, though borrowed from Spanish, has a been an English word for three hundred years or so(source: OED). In English it is pronounced with an initial 'j' sound. In Spanish, it is pronounced "HOON-tah". American broadcast media tend to use the Spanish pronunication, although there is no good reason to do so. Consider the word "restaurant"; although clearly a borrowed word, it does not retain a French pronunciation in English (except, perhaps, amongst the effete).
BTW, none of the former broadcast language advisors in recent memory (Rich, Haslam, Germain) smoked a pipe, though I cannot swear to tweed...

We are starting to hear about "excited delirium" in the context of Tazer deaths. If the notions of "delirium" and "excitedness" are relevant in assessing the psychology and the physiology of the "tazee", surely they are also relevant to evaluate the psychology and the physiology of the "tazers".

To Jim in Surrey,

You seem to believe that there is only one definition for each word in the English language. A quick consultation with any dictionary will tell you that this is not so.

I cannot speak to the pronunciation of Kyoto, but I can tell you that the uses of careening and litany were not contrary to their definitions. By the way, the usages of words change over time and a dictionary is not meant to lay down in writing for all time the one use and meaning of a word. In fact it is a snapshot of language and a reflection of current usage.

If the CBC's usage of these words strikes you to be incorrect perhaps you should invest in a new dictionary.

I wholeheartedly agree with Dixon regarding the purpose of dictionaries. I'm also quite surprised at the number of people who've seen fit to get on their linguistic high horses without consulting a dictionary!

To anonymous: This use of the word "executor" is correct. The person who carries out an execution is an executioner. An executor is someone appointed by a testator to carry out the wishes outlined in his/her will.

To Jim Gunson: As already stated, the use of "careen" about which you complained is perfectly legitimate according to the OED.
As for "litany," the second definition provided by OED is "a tedious recital (litany of woes)."

To Alan Rudrum: According to the OED (again; sorry), there is only one pronunciation of "frequent," and that is with the accent on the first syllable.

Sigh...nitpicking is exhausting, isn't it?

It would really do CBC credit to put the CBC
internal style guide online. The BBC has its
style guide online in PDF format and the
Economist has its style guide online as a
searchable Web site. Certainly the CBC could
emulate these two important organisations.

While I'm not implying that a CBC style guide
would have as much import to international
English as the guides from the BBC and the
Economist, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing
to think that it might?

Fantastic post! I, too, would love to see the CBC style guide online and perhaps even published, same as the CP guide.

My pet peeve: "obligated". What's wrong with "obliged"?

The pronounciation of the names Afghanistan and Somalia, just to name two by Peter Masbridge sounds kind of corny. It is a poor imitation of British and/or a bad imitation of Canadian.

For example, he pronounces Afghanistan as AAFGHANISTAAN and Somalia as SOMOLIA. What gives?

wow, was it ever fun to read everybody's comments on what means what!!!! I guess I am not the only one who proof reads labels at the grocery store either??!!

Judy,
Could you please do something about all those weather blokes (and blokesses) who insist on saying "A temperature is expected of (xx) degrees"...it drives me apoplectic!!! How about the OLD form..."A temperature of (xx) degrees is expected..."
THX,
Chris

So here is what we advise: "First reference to this country should always be Burma, also known as Myanmar.

If this is true when did the Nationalist Republic of China become Taiwan and the communist Peoples' Republic of China become just China?

Hello,

Thanks goodness there is someone keeping track of word usage. I wish the word 'got' would not be used as a verb.

Also, I would prefer that borderline vulgarities not be used on air. While these words may go unnoticed in regular conversation they seem unnecessary in public broadcasting. The exception would be in regard to book reviews or some other artistic context.
Ann

As someone who is constantly dealing with bad English (my own) I, also, would appreciate having access to the CBC style guide.

I do have a question. Is it rout_er or route_r? I assume that we agree that route is not pronounced rout.

Language is about much more than style, and the use of words can be very important in either understanding or concealing what is going on. In this respect I object to the CBC use of the term "arrest" when referring to the seizure of Palestinians, while using the term "kidnap" when the shoe is on the other foot.

You might wish to formulate a non-discrimatory policy.

Cheers,
dba

What I find particularly annoying on a Canadian broadcasting service is the increasing use of the American lootenant for the proper Canadian leftenant. On a few occasions I have even heard zee being used instead of zed. I think these are particularly egregious sins.

Anonymous Ed:

"To anonymous: This use of the word "executor" is correct. The person who carries out an execution is an executioner. An executor is someone appointed by a testator to carry out the wishes outlined in his/her will."

I believe Anon knew what the word meant, just that the budding Buckeye Newshawk news readers were pronouncing it ex-e-cu-tor rather than ex-ec-u-tor

Please tell the people who write the summaries for The National that it's "accommodation" -- two m's. The headline for a news segment tonight has it as "Reasonable Accomodation".

Thanks.

Christina:

"Please tell the people who write the summaries for The National that it's "accommodation"..."

Wow.

I just did a search for both spellings on cbc.ca, and while the 1020 double "m"s were no surprise, the 90 singles ones were. Thanks for pointing that out.

Why do some CBC radio broadcasters call the Russian President "Poo'in" rather than Putin, and the Pakistani opposition leader Bhuddo, rather than Bhutto?

Isn't there something in the style book about pronouncing the T's in leaders' names?

From the department of silly questions (and apologies if this already has been covered): Why does the CBC pronounce schedule as "shed-yoo-ul"? Is "sked-you-ul" difficult to pronounce? Do children go to "shoo-ul" (i.e. school) to receive their education? ("Shoo-ul", to me, is where those of the Jewish faith go to pray every Friday night and Saturday — i.e. shul.)

Some 55 years ago my English instructor instilled in me an abiding hatred for the term "a general consensus of opinion" as a pompous stand-in for "consensus".

But lo and behold the wretched term persists even still, and remains quite common, most often as "general consensus" or "consensus of opinion".

On CBC Radio I've often heard show hosts and news commentators using the latter two, and occasionally clips from interviewees with the full monte.

Will it never go away?

Dear MAA,

I would be grateful if "in terms of" could be banned from the CBC. In my opinion it has become the leading syntactical pollutant of our spoken language.

A couple of examples from The Current.

"How do Tim Horton's and Starbucks measure up in terms of being good corporate citizens?" "Another important area in terms of disclosure is...."

Why not say ".. measure up as corporate citizens...." ???

As William Strunk wrote about "the fact that", ITO should be revised out of any sentence in which it occurs.

My peeve: THIS...is the CBC news. What is THIS?
It seems news presenters are trying to be "more interesting" trying to be"up-to-date". You do yourselves a disservice. Your voices already are distinctive. Why "try to be interesting". In fact, what presenters are doing is lowering the level of the integrity of the CBC news. I suppose it's all part of the "let's make the CBC relevant to a new generation of listeners" syndrome. In a world that is constantly shifting, anxious-ridden,etc.,one needs the constant: (Read simply)This is the CBC News.
Dont get me wrong, here. The majority of new programming is excellent; but please, dont fool around with the news.
Let's stop dumbing down the CBC.

Is this style guide a public document, if not why not/
CP sells its guide, why not the cbc?

Hey Guys....I was just trying to be sure of how to spell Leftenant...My husband was a Flight Leftenant in the Royal Canadian Air Force, shot down on D day, towing in gliders for the Normandy Invasion (he parachuted into the Oren Canal and survived) In relating his story, I could not find the Canadian spelling in our US dictionaries for Leftenant. This simple search led me to your MOST interesting and informative site.
I had so much fun reading it all. Thanks
Babs and my husband "Flight Leftenant J.M. Woocock, Royal Canadian Air Force World War II No,No No....NOT Lootenant please! (Born in Stavely, Alberta, Canada 1916.

One of the words that causes me some consternation is the second month of the year - February!
Seems that most people forget about that first 'r'. I believe it should be pronounced -Feb-ru-ary NOT Feb-u-ary. Am I incorrect?
Also, people should remember that etc. is pronounced et-cet-er-a NOT es-et-era.

My concern is with numbers not words.

Why is it we quite counting all the zeros between a million and a billion?
I really get angry when I hear my Government telling me that what comprises a billion dollars and then have the same mistake continued ignorantly by ALL the major media.

After 999 million is not a billion it is thousands of millions THEN hundreds of thousands of millions THEN billions. What happened to these 6 little zeros?

Wikipedia makes reference to Margaret Thatcher first speaking this misnomer in the British House of Commons. Cuz she spoke it don't make it law!!!

Officially America is the ONLY country on the planet not to accept thousands of millions as part of a normal counting system of numbers.

I would like to know officially if Canada counts like its largest trading partner or like the rest of the world.

The language misuse that always grates on my ears is the constant use of the word 'accident' in the traffic reports, and often in the main news. My driving instructor claimed that to use the word 'accident' removes the main causes of the 'crash' or 'collision' from the discussion - drivers. Most urban collisions are caused by driver inattention.

Hi Judy

I was intrigued by a story you wrote for the Globe reecently about entertaining a group of young people. You mentioned Mason jars filled with questions. The questions were so interesting I began answering them myself!
Please let me know how I can acquire a similar set of questions. Thanks.

J.

Glad to hear you say "The two key components for this job are a sense of humour and a fascination with finding the best language to communicate clearly"

I hear an increasing number of misuses of english on CBC radio and television, but I will try to keep my axamples humorous:

"There's" instead of "THere are"
For example, “There’s many factors involved...”
Really? How many factors is there?

“Moving forward” as in “What do you foresee moving forward?” This is of course instead of asking “What do you foresee moving backward?”

“On the ground” as in “We now go to our reporter on the ground” As opposed to your reporter in the air?

Why are all agreements, accords, and treaties always “hammered out” ?

Why do so many CBC interviewers ask their guests to “Give us a sense...”

In every city I visit, local traffic reporters invariably inform me that things are slow “because of an earlier accident” Is the adjective “earlier” really necessary? Is it even informative? If it were omitted I doubt many would infer that traffic is slow "in anticipation of an impending accident."

I know you said you were not a language cop, but, please, can someone give a few elementary grammar lessons to some of the CBC's reporters? The latest clanger was dropped by Duncan McCue during his report on the Karen refugees in Vancouver. He referred to "....by she and the other refugees." Please tell him that "she" is the nominative form and that after a preposition, such as "by", the objective case is always used. He should have said "....by her and the other refugees."

I don't mean to pick on Mr. McCue because other reporters make similar mistakes with the objective pronouns, particularly when they are used with other pronouns or nouns. "Between you and I" slips by (should be "me") but in some sentence constructions the wrong word is simply a clanger and should not be ignored.

Why is everyone misusing the word ground? If someone falls it is always to the ground - not the floor, not the deck, not the roof, not anything but the ground. A man went berserk in an airplane at 30 thousnd feet and 3 men wrestled him to the ground.

"Joonta" or "Hoonta" ? Whether the pronunciation has been abused by the British for 300 years or not, we should at least be consistent. If all Spanish words beginning with "J" are to be pronounced in the English fashion, then surely we should also say "My name JOE-ZAY JEE-MEN-EZ" not "Ho-zay Hee-me-nez" (Jose Jimenez) ? And what about "Jorge" Is it "Jor-gay" or "Hor-hay" ?

After all we didn't anglicize the pronunciation of Peter GUH-ZOW-SKI's name - we respectfully left it the way he pronounced it, as "ZOS-KEE", despite the spelling (GZOWSKI).

It shows a great deal of disrespect and disdain (probably based on the bad old colonial days) for English speakers to foist English conventions on words from foreign languages. It is almost as though one were saying "we know how to pronounce your words better than you do".

Just try it in "KWEE-BECK" (Quebec) and watch the reaction of the "Kay-be-kwah". (Quebecois)

Though this rule should not be followed slavishly (English is after all an amalgam of "foreign" words), we should still attempt, wherever possible, to respect the cultures and civilizations that create unique terms. An essential part of that respect is pronouncing words the way the originators intended.

Words both shape and reflect thought, hence their power, and hence the need to think (carefully) before speaking.