Mikhail Gorbachev: The Wall and Democracy

Interview by CBC News

Mikhail Gorbachev, former president of the Soviet Union, interviewed by CBC News. (Canadian Press)

Mikhail Gorbachev, the former president of the Soviet Union, had a front-row seat to the events that ended with the collapse of the Berlin Wall on Nov. 9, 1989. CBC News spoke to him about his recollections. These are highlights of that interview.

Transcript

Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, are you proud of what happened on Nov. 9, 1989?

I am really proud of what happened. It was one of most acute world issues, which was widely discussed. In June 1989, we discussed it with Helmut Kohl, German chancellor. Reporters asked us: did you talk about the reunification of Germany? Of course, we did.

When the reunification will take place, they asked? We both said: Well, in the 21st century.

It was a very thorny path. Of course, we already had perestroika and glasnost in Soviet Union, the political pluralism was already there, market economy, new foreign policy, freedom, and this trend was taken up by Central and Eastern Europe. And the Germans against this background looked like some lepers. They were left behind, alone. What we had to do was to put the last nail in the coffin of Cold War.

You were invited to East Berlin in October 1989?

We received an invitation to East Berlin, for the national holidays, and I was thinking whether I should go there or not because the passions were on the rise. The situation was already advanced. I did feel it, but [then German Communist party secretary Erich] Honecker, I think, did not. Especially when we attended a night manifestation, and I saw crowds of young and middle-aged people, holding torches and screaming slogans, all in favor of unification.

The Polish Prime Miechyslav Rakovski came up to me from behind … Mikhail Sergeevich, he said, do you understand German? My answer was: I know enough to read and understand what they are screaming. And he said: You understand that's the end. Yes, I answered, it's the end. The last act was unfolding before our eyes.

Do you remember Nov. 9, 1989? How did you sleep that night?

I did sleep because the process was already raging. We got used to it and knew that there will be a development - that it will be a different scenario from the one we had conceived. In 24 hours, three million Germans have gone there, left us.

Were you aware that it was the end of an era?

Yes, it was the last point, the last station of Cold War. They were telling us: Get off, guys, and start thinking about a new world order. Yes, a new world order.

In 1987, [then U.S. president] Ronald Reagan in Berlin said, "Mr. Gorbachev, open this door; tear down this wall." How did you feel?

I wasn't really impressed. It wasn't new for us. We knew that after having built the Wall, it will be time, sooner or later, to tear it down. And also, we knew that we were dealing with a former actor who was playing a scene before us.

You've said many times that the fact that you didn't use military force in 1989 helped avoid the Third World War. Do you still feel that way?

It's hard to imagine what catastrophe it could lead to if we allowed interference. We had half-a-million people stationed there, armed to [the] teeth. The biggest concentration of weapons, well-trained military force, tanks, nuclear weapons. Had we given such [an] order, it would have been a mistake, which could have led to a catastrophe, which could have ended in a Third World War.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Goodbye.