Thank you CBC for this true eyeopener!
We purchased a minivan yesterday and the dealer provided us with a Carfax report. No problems reported whatsoever.

However, after watching this episode online today, I felt motivated to do another check on the vehicle using Carproof - thankfully, 0 problems found.

After watching this episode and reading the comments, I will be using Carproof in conjunction with Carfax (if the dealer provides it) from now on.

Thank you CBC and Carproof! Shame on Carfax.

YES, I DID SEE YOUR SHOW ON THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THE AUTOMOTIVE USE CAR MARKET, HOWEVER THERE IS A LARGER PROBLEM YOUR SHOW HAS YET TO AIR. EVERYONE WHO BUYS A VEHICLE WITH A COLLISION OR WHO HAS THEIR VEHICLE IN A COLLISION CAN BE EXPOSED UP TO A 75% MANUFACTURES WARRANTY LOSS AND A FURTHER LOSS OF AS MUCH AS 50% ON THEIR RESELL VALUE. THIS DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IF THEY HAVE HAD A POOR REPAIR TO THEIR VEHICLE, THIS IS ANOTHER MATTER. HAVING WORKED IN THE COLLISION INDUSTRY FOR MORE THEN THIRTY YEARS, I HAVE HAD MANY CONSUMERS SEEK ME OUT TO HELP THEM WITH THEIR VEHICLE PROBLEMS AND I HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN HELPING THEM GET THEIR MONEY BACK AFTER A VEHICLE PURCHASE OR POOR COLLISION REPAIR. CONTACT ME SHOULD YOU WISH TO KNOW WHAT MANY LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW.

I think it's CarProof

so carfax is no good well who proved reliable then

are we to use the other 3 mentioned @ $i45 for every car we look at

the other site is called carproof

The report they used is Called CARPROOF. Website www.carproof.com . Iregognise it by the looks of the report as I just run in on 2 cars I'm considering

I too have a $50,000 4 wheeled lawn ornament that I will be making heavy payments on for the next 5 years yet, mostly because I needed a vehicle in a hurry and I thought that a Ford Canada Dealership should at least be honest and reputable. I was wrong and have been feeling very stupid and angry. I think that it is a real shame on our society as a whole when we can expect get ripped off for our hard earned money more times than we can expect to get a dollars worth of quality.

Best program! What an eyeopener!! Thank you, keep up the good work!

Your recent Car-Fax program. I was happy to see someone taking these people on, they do a very poor job in vehicle reporting reporting.

I call on over 3500 repair shops a year either myself or by our sales people and over the past number of years have found that 60% of the repair shops do not have the proper skills, equipment and or information to do the job correctly the first time, I feel that it is about time that the Department of Transportation in all Provinces police these repair shops, if they do not have the required items as outlined above they should not be licensed to work on vehicles in the respective Provinces.

I love CBC, but this show is garbage! it doesn't tell me anything that I didn't already know. Unfortunately, it omits to reveal what might have been useful info! Such as the name of the website. What a wast of time!!!!!

Hello evryone ...OK I disaagree with alot of that episode beacause there is lots you can do to prevent buying a branded car .. and also to get all your money back after the fact even if it's 2-3 years later..First of all this is one law : If a dealer sells you a car that's got a hit on it wether he knows or not doessn't matter if you find out later you can report to O.M.V.I.C Ontario motor vehicle consil THey will help you get all your money back PLUS if the dealer really didn't know 'Very unlikely'He can get all his money from where ever he bought it ....

THanks

Even when you have a "correct" report on these used cars you still CAN NOT trust them if in fact there was frame damage on the vehicle.

Why? Because only perhaps 10% of "frame repairs" are in fact done correctly. Most of the frames or more precise, the unibody structure is NOT put back to where it belongs, that is to say they will likely not be within specs, which is +- 3mm of where they should be.

I know this because I used to teach Frame repairs and I am always amazed how "body repair persons" use their thumb to actually "measure" dimensions.

This makes a lot of vehicles behave NOT they way they should and can easy contribute to an accident.
So... Frame Damage? BEWARE!!!

I thought Marketplace's M.O. was to help the consumer, but I guess not.

Marketplace totally failed to mention the name of CarFax's competitor -- CarProof -- whom they got the correct vehicle information from. They seemed more intent on ripping CarFax than revealing where the consumer could get the correct info. I don't understand why they wouldn't mention CarProof on the show.

Also, that corporate flunky from CarFax -- did anyone else feel like punching him in the mouth? haha

Please send me the name of the company you used to get correct information on the used car.
Thank you!
Sol

How many stories have appeared on just about every television station about used cars.People that get close get bought off and problem continues my story is so over the top and now the taxpayer is bailing out auto indistry is the perfect time to have all government agencys to come to the table to get it right once and for all!!!!!!!!!!!

To everyone that keeps asking about what database was searched. How about reading a little bit? There is a link that says.. how to search your cars secret history. If you click that link you would read this : "During our research, we searched through at least two databases per car. Here's the list of the car history databases used in our report"

You people can't be spoon fed everything... you made the effort to make a comment on the site to complain when it was less effort just to look at the information yourself.

Sigh... I don't mean to be rude but really... come on....

I am in the industry and have never put any creedance in Carfax reports. Here in B.C. we use ICBC reports as well as Carproof.

The other company's name is Carproof.

The competitor is probably Car Proof. Car Proof is one of the best services, its around $50 each time, but if that $50 save you thousands down the road. Thats great.

I too wonder about the competitor who had the damage information that Carfax didn't; however, it seems likely to me the competitor goes unnamed because it is unlikely any car history service has complete records. In fact, I suspect the story probably relied on an amalgam of reports from different services on each vehicle to find discrepancies. All of which just goes to reinforce that the consumer's best protection is probably to only use a car history report in conjunction with a thorough inspection by a reputable shop of their own choice.

A car history report from the dealer probably is essentially worthless. It does seem obvious at least some dealers probably make a practice of checking for a clean Carfax when buying damaged vehicles at auctions, etc., so as to give it a quick repair and get it on their lot before info gets updated (if it get reported at all).

Until such time as there are uniform, mandatory reporting standards to state and provincial registries, including police and registry records as well as mandatory shop reporting, car history reports will be of very limited value. Here in Alberta, for example, there is no requirement to report vehicle mileage, so for a vehicle that has spent it's life in the province, it is very hit and miss on any record of mileage in a history report, and aids the still-too common practice of resetting odometers.

Which garage did Marketplace use to check the vehicles over
in Vancouver. I would like to know so I can use they're services in the future.

Anyone worth their salt in the car business knows that Carproof is the most reliable source for this information.
It is what I use when I am appraising vehicles.
The underlying point that you didn't touch on is how knowledable dealers are hiding behind carfax to sell vehicles. I don't know of any dealer who uses carfax when buying vehicles, so why use it when selling?

As far as Marketplace is concerned I don't have the same criticisms of others I think it served a purpose and that was to shed some light on issues that used car buyers face. The report has helped me discover that I bought a vehicle that has a combined 18000 dollars of past damages, and the dealer bought the vehicle from an auction that listed it as a vehicle with "Frame Damage". Needless to say I would not have bought it had I known this. Carfax did bring up an accident history but not specific like Carproof. When I questioned the dealer he assured me the reports were for minor claims such as a broken window. I even had a 3rd party pre-purchase inspection that did not reveal anything. I felt that I did everything necessary to protect myself, but now I realize I was a bit naive. Quite simply the dealer lied to me and didn't divulge the true history of the vehicle when I directly asked him about it. Not many people bother to run the VIN or get an inspection, I did BOTH and I still got screwed. I think it is obvious that as soon as I saw the accident history, I shouldn't have asked questions regarding its severity or the details, I should have just walked. It is really too bad that a business that already has a negative stereotype, doesn't pride itself on customer satisfaction, that even though they standby their claims that it is a good safe vehicle, they convieniently fail to reveal an unclean history.

In SK, SGI Gov't Insurance (www.sgi.sk.ca) offers a Vehicle History check for free (for any accident history since 1998) while the vehicle was registered in SK. Of course, use your judgement when buying a used vehicle. Obtaining original records on the car and being able to talk to previous owners if possible is recommended.

I agree that this was an excellent piece, but I think people need to be a little more intelligent about buying cars. If you see a vehicle at a dealer that is priced substantially below market value, you're not getting a steal, you're getting robbed. Dealers make a living buying and selling cars; how likely is it that they would knowingly sell a perfect car for below market value???

It's amazing how every automotive message board is still littered with folks asking if someone can run a carfax for them. Maybe now people will start to realize that a carfax report isn't worth the paper it's written on. Only useful if you are a scam artist trying to rip gullible people off. Carproof is the only way to go in Canada.

For the best, most thorough vehicle history report go to CARPROOF.COM

They are the best on the market!

For everyone's info, the database that they don't tell you the name of is called Carproof. I work in the car business, Carproof is the most reliable source of info.

Hi,
You mentioned "carfax" in your program for a vehicle history report (which had a lot of omissions) and you also mentioned another firm for a more thorough VH report.
which one is it? (if you are not allowed to divulge the name, then can you tell me)
Is it based in the US?
thanks,
P.R.

As many others have written, it was inexcusable for Market Place not to mention the name of the competitor of Carfax. If there was a reason for omitting to say the name, the CBC should have spelled it out clearly.

If you wreck your car and fix it up out of your pocket, CarFax wouldn't have that information.

Just wanted to say, good story but left more questions than answers to the average consumer following this story. First, let us get a few of the questions answers:

1. The name of the Competitor's report is CarProof & you can order a report from their website: www.carproof.com. Keep in mind that like CarFax, they also rely on information provided by to them by third parties, which can also be incorrect. The advantage of CarProof is that it gives you a detailed synopsis of the vehicle's history from province to province.

2. Including the government, there are organizations in most Provinces that administer their provincial legislation "Motor Vehicle Dealers Act" (MVDA) & in some cases Federal legislations which protects the consumer from a motor vehicle purchase which was not been properly disclosed.

Did CBC contact the governing body that's responsible for administering the act in British Colombia and if So, were they not willing to mediate the complaint from the consumer who purchased the Nissan Xterra?

3. I think it is important to let consumers know that if they have been sold a vehicle that's was not disclosed to them of such damage; it is still the responsibility of the dealership even if they provided a report showing no damages. The consumer has to be made whole; the dealership also has options available to them if the item they sold was not disclosed to them as being in an accident.

Here are some of the governing bodies & organizations that may be able to help if consumers find themselves in a situation such as what we all witnessed.

- Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council - www.omvic.on.ca
- VSA: formerly "Motor Dealer Council of BC" www.mdcbc.com
- Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council - www.amvic.org
- Used Car Dealers Association - www.ucda.org

It all comes down to this, Asked the dealer everything you can if they have a CarFax, CarProof or UCDA report showing no accidents don't take their word for it. Have the vehicle inspected by a licensed mechanic/body shop that knows what to look for. Be specific and tell them what you want to know. Don't just ask for a once over to determine mechanical fitness, let them know you also would like to have an inspection for any accidents including frame/body damage.

A car is the second major purchase in a person’s life after a house. Before you buy your home you will pay a home inspector to make sure that investment is sound and to find any hidden faults that may not have been disclosed by the seller; so why not make the same investment in the used vehicle you intend to purchase.

I definitely found this informative: The Carfax is a tool to use when shopping for a used car, but shouldn't be your only tool. Certainly a third party mechanic is probably the best way to go. Although I am not sympathetic towards carfax, because it seems that they have misled many people, however, people do have to take some responsibility. That being said, dealers also have to take responsibility. I'm sure all those dealers knew of the damaged cars they sold. Not disclosing that information when asked, is breach of contract.

Sometimes, I think the best way to buy a car is privately. You meet the actual owner (would you want that person driving your car). They are not professionals (and are usually not trained to pull the wool over your eyes (although some people are curb-siders). They usual just want to get rid of the car (since they usual have another and are just paying for 2 insurance policies needlessly). You're more apt to get past repair records/receipts when you buy privately as dealers don't usually give out this info for supposed "privacy" reasons. The are a ton of cars of every imaginable type listed privately on Craigslist.

The best bet is to inspect the vehicle yourself or a hire a 3rd party mechanic to do it. You don't need a forensic cop to figure out that parts have been replaced. It's easy to spot by missing VIN stickers on the body panels (on certain brands), or mismatched paint.

That being said the dealer probably knows that these vehicles were after accidents, but they hid behind their CarFax reports. Notice on how it wasn't an odd one car with a faulty report, but a ton of cars? Nice of them to pay for the repairs however.

The problem with these reports like Carfax, Carproof, and ICBC checks, is that if the accident was never reported to anyone, they have no way of knowing about it, and it won't show on any reports.

For example, if a person is involved in a single vehicle accident with no injuries, and no witnesses (hits a tree on a country road), and gets their vehicle towed to a repair shop, and pays for the repairs themselves, then no insurance or police agency would know about the incident, and therefore it wouldn't show on any records like Carproof or Carfax. Auto repair shops are not obligated to report what they fix to any agency such as a police dept or insurance co.

This should be a lesson to people who will go to a no name used car lot because they have a "better price" than a brand name dealer. You get what you pay for. There's a reason that these cars are not sitting on an Acura lot, and why they're much cheaper.

I work in the auto industry and am amazed on how many units get sold to dealers ( through the auctions) with full declarations but once on the sales lot, these cars seem to have very little negative history. At fault is the government for not having tougher regulations that govern the auto industry (used). ps . the competitor's name is one of two companies: Autocheck or Car Proof.

CarProof is the more reliable history reporting system. I am currently dealing with this exact issue with Somerville National Leasing. They leased me a car that had been previously damaged and are now telling me that it's my problem!

Note to commentors : If you Google "carfax competitor", one of the first links provided shows AutoCheck as the main competitor of CarFax. So, I suggest looking at AutoCheck, as this information was not provided in the show.

Currently the most complete Canadian records available are through carproof, it can be accessed through www.carproof.com. But just keep in mind all the information is not available. FYI: Be wary of cars coming from British Colombia, I.C.B.C. rarely shares their accident information with anyones else and if they do it's at a hefty cost.
Hope it helps
J.R.

Just watched this episode. We purchased a car through ebay using carfax for details about the vehicle. Got it to Canada to end up with a blown head gasket which was a symptom of a cracked engine. The dealer in Halifax checked their records and found a lot more detailed indicators that this car was trouble. Unfortunately the american dealer has never responded to our emails. We ended up replacing the engine ($8000) the cost of the vehicle in the first place. So, we paid double, had no recourse with the only peace of mind knowing that at least now we have a 2 year warranty on a rebuilt engine. The dealer also found, when they were replacing the engine that the head gasket had been replaced recently too....not dealer work. The dealer had to of known about the engine trouble and hid the repair from dealer records deliberately to mislead buyers. I don't think there is any system to assure buyers of a vehicle history. You only touched on structural damage but the mechanics of a vehicle are just as important.

We had purchased a used 2003 Ford Freestar last year when I was expecting my third child. The price was affordable and the kms was reasonable, but we have had headaches with this vechicle eversince. We have taken the van back to the dealership garage on numerous occassions, had parts replace but some of the problems we have had that they won't fix because they say there is nothing wrong. After your show last night, my spouse and I think that we were sold a lemon, we did'nt get any history on the van because the salesmen said that the van was sold at an auction and that they did'nt have any history on it. I was I knew then what I know now I would not have bought the van. Anyway thank you for showing everyone what kind of nightmare they can get themselves into by not checking on the history of those used vechicles before they buy it.

Thank you

Betty Andrews
Westport, NL

How is it carfaxs fault people don’t take their cars to get checked out? The problem with this show is that consumers have no responsibilities at all

Why don't you just tell everyone that the carfax reports are more united states oriented and tell them them the 'secondary' reports you checked in the back of the van are actually from the 'carproof' website which is more geard towards Canadian cars?

We tuned in to watch your show, our first time ever watching MarketPlace, to find out how we could find the secret history of used cars. However, all the segment told us was that CarFax does not have all the facts on a particular car's history. This is not information worthy of a news show. This information is on the [carfax] homepage. The reporter mentioned several times that there was a competitor who had more complete information, however she never told us that company's name. Useless ... We will not be watching MarketPlace again.

I have just finished watching the show on "Car Fax" Holes!
I thought it was done well, however to be of more help to Canadian consumers, why did you not mention the name of the Canadaian company (Car Proof) that you used to compile your info?

Alan Gelman; Toronto Canada

The most important criticism against Carfax is that they cannot possibly know the complete and unabridged history of any vehicle, nor should they claim to. They do not do inspections and they rely wholly on reports from others. Carfax must portray their reports as confirmations that something is wrong with the vehicle, not confirmation that the history is clean.

While most of today's report focused on Carfax, I believe the primary problem here lies with the dealers. Why do dealerships not inspect the cars that they sell? Will they pay the mechanic's bill if you bring the car to be inspected yourself?

Consumers should be protected through legislation which requires cars to be inspected by an independent mechanic before a dealership is permitted to resell them.

Thank you Erica and Wendy! Keep it up!

Is there a WWW site you could go on and check about your vehicle? I know there is a pay site, just wondering if there was a free one? Great story, I can't believe the things people get away with especially the fake food labels on Canada products.

Thank you for opening my eyes to used cars buying. I was planning to go to a dealer on the weekend and was planning to rely on Carfax or whichever report they would provide that looked convincing. Thanks again. I have always been convinced that a new car is the way to go, but financial difficulties sometimes make you look in another direction. This probably will be my last car as I am getting older, but it has to be a good one, as I probably never will be able to afford another one. Thanks again. You may have saved me many frustrations that I really do not need.

Very interesting,now I know I can't depand on carfax.What site did you go on to give you the true picture?

whose report did you use that shows more accurate information? Why wouldn't you provide that information in the report?

So why didn't the TV story on January 16th tell us about the websites where the CBC found out about the frame damage to the subject vehicles, rather than "entertain" us with the grinning clown from Carfax? I think the CBC failed by not advising us of the other sites.

BTW if you are buying a car in Manitoba, the province's insurer (MPIC), will give you a damage report on any accidents that happened to that vehicle whilst it was in Manitoba.

Hi there, that was really an awesome episode that you featured "The Secret History of Cars". I got so interested that i wanted to check out the history of my vehicle i bought early last year. Is there anything i (still) can do if i found out that there is a major safety concern on the vehicle after almost a year?

Thank you so much for reporting this story. I am considering purchasing a car in the near future and your story may one day save me hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Considering that I'm a student, that means a lot. Thanks!

We watched your show with great interest as my mother-in-law is in the process of looking for a used car.
My husband and I recently purchased a used car and I had done a carfax search and it came up clean. However, after I watched your show I investigated further and did a search on the Carproof website only to discover that our car has been in 3 accidents! I'm furious that carfax did not disclose this information and I'm angry at myself for not investigating further at the time we purchased the car. Clearly using carfax alone was not enough.
Thanks to your show we will not be making the same mistake twice in our search for a used car for my mother-in-law. As for my husband and I however, I'm not quite sure how to proceed from here. It's too much information too late. I am curious to know how the fellow on your show with the white Nissan SUV proceeded after he found out his car was in an accident.

Live and learn,
Your truly
Wendy

in your report you mention carfax's competitor had the correct damage report. why wouldn't you mention the name of it.

I found your story Very informative. I thought like millions of other Americans that Carfax had All the information that a person needs to know. Thanks for letting everyone know you need to do more than that!!

I had decided to buy a 2006 vehicle located in Winnipeg and was studying its Carfax report when a TV commercial came on about your upcoming program. During the next few hours, I ordered another report over the internet (which revealed an accident that Carfax had missed!); cancelled tomorrow's flight to Winnipeg; called the dealer and explained my concerns as well as my decision not to proceed with the purchase; and breathed a sigh of relief when he readily agreed to refund my $2500 deposit. I have other details in case you are interested in hearing them. Meanwhile, thanks for providing a needed public service with Marketplace.

where do you get the other report that you used on used cars. Not "Carfax" but the other one that was used inside the car with the two ladies.

I used carfax to buy a car and when I received the report back which was by the way CLEAN, I bought the car. I took a loss on the SUV because the information was not correct and up to date, like the way they advertise on carfax.I will never use carfax again. On a good note, I complained to carfax and I got my full refund back. A very small concession. After seeing your show carfax used the same explanation to me. If people do not send the info to carfax they cannot guarrentee the info is up to date.
Horray for you for exposing Carfax.
Can you email me the competitors name that you used that was far more up to date because I plan on buying another used car soon.
Thank-you
Brian

Wow. That is all I can say: Wow. Shows how dangerous dishonesty can be!

OK, Car Fax is a rip-off. You used an other report that had missing info that Car-Fax did not have. Do you think maybe you could have shared this info with us? How did you get the missing information? You would think your reporters would have shared this information?

Thank you for broadcasting the carfax report.My daughter is currently in the market for a used car and I mentioned to make sure she requests a carfax. Now that I have watched your show on carfax, I sent her your tip sheets hoping that your information will keep what happened to Darren from happening to my daughter. Sincerely Theresa Laframboise

WHY DIDN T YOU TELL US THE NAME OF THE COMPANY THAT HAD ALL OF THE ACCIDENTS CARFAX DID NOT?.......WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS SERVICE?