I can't believe it, what an ignorant, one sided and attacking show. The facts were incorrect and insulting. Everything from drug prices and markups facts are incorrect. At one point the show compared one drug to another that was different. They stated the only difference was the dosage! Yeah that is the difference and why the difference in the costs. They then attached the dispensing fee, but every pharmacy has a dispensing fee, human or animal. It's funny how in Canada we attack Vets but not Medical Human Doctors, Dentists, pharmacist, etc. No one has a clue what they pay these professions because the government and insurance pays for that and people don't question the costs. Here's an idea for your next show, review how the government wastes our money by paying the CBC to hire journalists to conduct false investigations. Posted by: Chad | Nov 28, 07 06:56 PM

This story was ludicrous! You'll find people that take advantage of consumers in any occupation. Vets are one of the lowest paid professionals. Go to Future Shop and ask what the mark up is on headphones. 50% margin minimum. Fnid me a business that sells things at cost. How would they make money? If you can't afford it, don't get a pet. Simple. Next time you go to your own doctor ask to see the bill. Then tell me how crazy you think vet prices are. Posted by: Stephanie | Nov 28, 07 07:02 PM

I would just like to say that we changed to a vet in Vineland near Niagara Falls called "West Niagara Animal Hospital", because we felt like we being overcharged in Hamilton. And would just like to say on their behalf that they gave us the option to have them fill a prescription for us to take it to the drug store. With the other vets in Hamilton I didn't even know that was an option. Posted by: Todd Leveck | Nov 28, 07 07:03 PM

It saddens me that again vets are viewed as the people who would rather euthanize your animal than treat it. I went to school to practice medicine. If your animal is dead...game over. In comparison to a human GP, I make 1/4 of what they make but must be the physician, pharmacist, radiologist, surgeon, etc etc all under one roof....but still we are viewed as over charging for our abilities. Some veterinary meds cost more than human meds as they are veterinary specific. Sometimes the dosing is difficult to translate to human equivalents. Believe me, vets don't make their living on meds alone. Thanks for helping make the day harder for us. I went to school for 8 years but don't deserve the respect given to anyone else with doctor in front of their name. Posted by: Babette | Nov 28, 07 07:12 PM

I noted that you investigation never referred to our profession as if we were full fledged doctors, only as vets (short for veterinarians i assume). We are doctors, practicing real medicine and we did not get our degrees from a cracker jack box. We offer full service in one building typically and work long hours and offer emergency services. We do it all, from medicine, surgery, radiology, ultrasound, dental, obstetrics, and pharmacology .....and most offer it 24 hours, 7 days a week. For a country that doesn't offer that to its humans, I would say we do a great job and make less then those "REAL DOCTORS". Let's face it, in this country we don't really understand what our medical care costs are let alone what it costs for veterinarians to offer good service to patrons that want to take really good care of their pets. If you are doing any story you should not be so one sided, and show respect for a profession that works hard at what we do and really do care for our patients. Posted by: Dr. Erin Grant | Nov 28, 07 07:15 PM

I was not impressed with your show tonight. You are not looking at the big picture and you have been unfair to many veterinary clinics and staff in Canada. Veterinary Clinics have HUGE EXPENSES that no drug store has - they have hospital equipment to purchase and maintain - equipment that is the very same as used on humans - but there is no government helping them. They need to find the money somewhere to pay for such expenses. I know that if you were to look at the average salary of a veterinarian you would find that they do not make a lot of money. The rest of the veterinarian staff in general are poorly paid, in comparison to other careers. Anyone who goes into the business is not doing it for the money, but for the love of the animals. Yes there are a few who make a lot of money, but they are few and far between. A vet spends as long in school as any lawyer, and any doctor, and they do not make near the same amount of money. Why did you not mention that in your report? If people only knew how low the salaries are in the veterinarian field, they could not feel that they are being gouged. If vets do not make money from selling drugs, then other prices will have to go up to help pay for the equipment needed to run a veterinarian hospital. If veterinary clinics were making gobs of money and everyone was paid as much as most government employees then maybe you would have a right to complain about the high cost of veterinary drugs. But that is just not the case! PS I used to work for the CBC many years ago - believe me, most educated employees there make a whole lot more than the average employee at the average veterinary clinic. Posted by: Mary Linington | Nov 28, 07 07:17 PM

The show was an eye opener for me. I know not all Veterinarians charge same price for prescriptions and hospital stays. I never thought there was that much difference. I paid over 700.00 dollars for my dog to have 2 teeth removed and she didn't stay overnight. Posted by: Heather | Nov 28, 07 07:17 PM

I have a 15 week old kitten who just had a vet appointment last week to get her needle. The kitten had deworming meds from the pet store, however, my vet suggested that she should have more. I looked on our bill after your program was over and discovered that I paid $20.89 for TWO TABLETS! I had no idea that this kind of thing happened and I am starting to really question if my kitty even needed any more deworming meds. She had 3 doses from the pet store. I will certainly pass along this information to my family & friends. Posted by: P. Barry | Nov 28, 07 07:28 PM

Hi: My name is Donna Hayward from St. John's, NL.and I have a dog and a cat both 13yrs old. My dog is diabetic and takes 2 shots of insulin per day. It cost $92.00 a month plus her syringes are $50.00 every 3mths. I would love to see pricing change with the vets here. I love my animals and I would mortgage my home to save their lives but there are a lot of people out there that will not adopt a pet because of the expenses with the vet. I wish I could make a difference and I would if I knew how to start. I thought maybe knowing how the UK started with their regulations maybe I could get the govt or politicians to listen. Posted by: Donna Hayward | Nov 28, 07 07:53 PM

First the gentleman you interviewed from the vet association obviously does not have any pets - for him to say that pets cost money and if you can't afford it, then pets have to be put down is not only heartless, it ignorant and unnecessary. If he is actually a veterinarian he should be stripped of his credentials. If you are a vet - you should care about the animals above all else. Thank God for sending me a vet who cares about my kids and prices be damned. Apparently my animals are lucky. Posted by: Carolee | Nov 28, 07 08:03 PM

Sure, it is true that veterinarians do mark up the prices of drugs. But the consumer needs to realize that we are paying the veterinarian for a service. This educated and highly respected individual has spent countless hours learning how to treat your animal. These individuals generally care about your pet and not just solely about making a profit. The suggestion to buy animal prescriptions from a pharmacy is not one that the uneducated client should do. Sure, the product might be identical. But there are differences in dosages, contraindictions, among numerous other problems that may arise from an ignorance of drug knowledge. The pharmacist is educated about these drugs, but for humans, not animals. It might work for the consumer, but at the same time, the consumer may risk the life of his animal just to save a few dollars a month. Posted by: Laura | Nov 28, 07 08:04 PM

I just watched your program on veterinary prescription charges and, you suggested getting a prescription. My friend knew the specific medication she required for her dog and that it was available and much more reasonable through a pharmacy. She requested a prescription from her veterinary and was advised that "we can't and/or will not provide a 'prescription' for any drug that is available at the veterinary hospital". Consequently, she could not get a prescription and had to pay the high price. Does anyone know if a veterinary can refuse to give a prescription for any drugs? Legally, do we have the option of getting a prescription vs buying from the vet? Posted by: Jan Crawford | Nov 28, 07 08:04 PM

I just went through this same thing with my vet, but it's not just drugs, it's also tests. Recently my cat had a swollen shoulder, and they wanted to do X-rays and blood work. It would have been 700 dollars. Their failure to be more intuitive and old-school hands on gave me a bad feeling. So I said no, just give me the anti inflammatory. Anyway the next day my cat had licked the swelling open and it healed on its own. It was just an infected bite. Why wouldn't an experienced vet have suspected that right away? As soon as I sense marketing instead of caring, the hairs on my neck go up. These days all professions are being brainwashed by the dollar and not why they went into it in the first place. What happened to these little kids that became vets because they love animals? Are we being penalized because we love our pets? Are they a luxury item? Posted by: Debra Mackay | Nov 28, 07 08:04 PM

Re: your show on pet meds: You failed to highlight one important fact: Your pet NEEDS that medication. What about the meds that are sold that are not really needed? I happened to have my dogs to the vet just this afternoon, and now I appreciate my choice in vets even more. For my dog's complaint, he told me that there were some fancy dog specific medications and treatments available if I really wanted them, but equally effective was regular over-the-counter ASA and Gravol, along with a regular heating pad. There was no need to spend more. Now this is a WONDERFUL vet!! Posted by: CJ Berry | Nov 28, 07 08:04 PM

Having watched my vet bills increase vastly in the last few year I was surprised to hear that I may ask for a prescription. I will be doing this in the future. I would like to ask if any investigation was done on the price that vets charge for testing. I was charged $58 for a urine test for my Golden Retriever. I know from my nursing background that this is just a case of putting a test strip in the urine to get a reading. I can not believe that this would cost the price they charged. Last week I took three dogs to have yearly shots done for a price of $219. This is for healthy animals. I feel it is not just on the medications that they are overcharging. Posted by: Linda Routledge | Nov 28, 07 08:05 PM

I just watched your program on vet's and medication. A few weeks ago my dog suffered a stroke a couple of days after having dental surgery. After a night's stay at the vet, I was given really very little hope that he would recover. I take homeopathic medicine myself and decided to treat him that way as well. I am happy to say that I have my dog totally back and it only cost me less then $20 in homeopaths. I think others should know about this. My vet was totally open to what I had tried and even she couldn't believe his success. Posted by: Karen Dick | Nov 28, 07 08:07 PM

Your program has just told consumers that human grade medications are the same as the medications found in vet clinics, you might just have caused serious medical conditions to be treated improperly. The human grade thyroid medication showed was a 50 mg tab vs a 0.03 mg thyroid tab. How do you propose that clients dose the thyroid tab correctly? Meloxicam and Metacam are two different products and are proven to have different outcomes. Every business in the world has a price mark up, and where vet clinics mark up some products higher, other products such as food are hardly marked up at all. Vet clinics have overhead as well, and in order for the public's furry friends to be well looked after veterinarians need to make money somewhere. I am not a veterinarian but I work in the field and can tell you that most of us are in it for the love of the animals...we are not living the high life. I truly hope that because of your program animals do not suffer Posted by: Addison | Nov 28, 07 08:10 PM

1. No mention was made of the fact that a veterinary clinic is a hospital - given that there is a great deal of overhead- for eg. xray equipment, dentistry, surgery, staffing - all there to look after people's pets, unlike a human doctor where they have an office and then send the patient to the hospital. 2. From the start Marketplace tried to show veterinarians as gouging the public and that is an unfair presentation. 3. Nowhere does the show mention the cost of human medicine, which in Canada patients have no idea of as they never see an invoice from a hospital or doctor. Human pharmacists and doctors also attend trade fairs and are wined and dined to view the latest products and medications. Drugs are big business on the human side as well and not everyone has a drug plan. 4. Are human pharmacies prepared to counsel on pet medications as they do for human medications? 5. Good to present issues such as varying prices for medications but totally unfair to begin the show by portraying veterinarians as out to gouge the public. Posted by: Renee Petersen | Nov 28, 07 08:11 PM

I just finished watching the story on Veterinarians and pricing. As a veterinary receptionist, I would like to say that we are not in business to rip off our clients. My clinic is quite happy to write prescriptions. In our defence, veterinary clinics are full service operations where the patient gets a complete examination which may include full blood work-ups, urine analysis, fecals, radiographs, surgery, dentistry, emergencies and the dispensing of medications all for the convenience of the client. I have heard on more than 1 occasion from our human clients that they wish their own doctors could provide such convenience. I don't begrudge your story, I do feel you didn't give veterinarians a chance to defend themselves. I feel your story was very one sided and edited to make our profession look bad. There may be some clinics out there that have an unreasonable markup but I can confidently say we are not one of them. As the receptionist of a successful practice in business for over 30 years I will not thank you for the day I am about to have tomorrow when the phone calls come rolling in. Posted by: Joelle Bradshaw | Nov 28, 07 08:16 PM

The whole issue of these huge mark-ups is very stressful because we are so very grateful when a cure is found, a difficult diagnosis is made and we are able to take our pet home. Under those circumstances I think most people would not think to ask for an alternative source for the medicine. But, I suspect this Marketplace show will change that for a lot of people. Not only do I pay $25.84 for that same vial of $4.16 insulin for my diabetic cat, I also have a dog currently recovering from a fungal illness called Blastomycosis and my meds for two months are costing me $447. I can assure you after watching this show I will be looking far and wide for the very best price - now that I know I have a choice. Any chance there could be a follow up show on the wide range of charges for clinic "procedures" such as spaying, neutering, nail trims, clinic visits etc? My bills for x rays and blood work for 4 dogs, and treatment and hospitalization for the two diagnosed with Blastomycosis are over $10,000 and I am in shock to say the least. Posted by: Lee Pettersen | Nov 28, 07 08:21 PM

As a veterinarian, I was truly shocked by your report that tried to compare the business model of the pharmacy to a veterinary clinic. A pharmacy clearly does not have the overhead of a fully functioning veterinary clinic which includes everything from an operating room to radiology. The pharmacy has little to no overhead and makes a magnificent profit on their 30% markup. At no time did you account for the veterinarian's time to calculate the drug dosage, check the pet's drug interactions or field the numerous phone calls regarding the pet's health and the medication. This clearly is incorporated into the cost of the veterinarian's prescription. When you have a problem with the medication will you contact the human pharmacist or your veterinarian? Are you now willing to be billed for that time the way that your doctor bills OHIP? I suspect that a half a hour news program must limit your ability to do good journalism. Hopefully they can provide you with more time for your next program. I am completely dedicated to my profession and the welfare of my patients and believe that their medication is best left in the hands of the person who spent seven years understanding their physiology. My clients will come into the clinic to fill their prescriptions so that when they touch base with us monthly we are able to train the staff to review their case and recommend prompt action if there are any new symptoms or issues. Good Luck to you and your pharmacists as you take care of your pets together. Posted by: T. McGrath | Nov 28, 07 08:23 PM

I have changed vets 3 times in the past year and in doing so have found out what a bunch of crooks vets really are. My dog is on steroids for life and his medication has cost me between $3.00 and $42 and on top of this they want to see him every time just so that they can add on their consulting fee to this which is about $50. I have spent about $6000 in the last 2 years and it has turned me off of being a pet owner which is sad as there are so many homeless pets out there that need a home but who can afford to own them. Posted by: Anne Metzger | Nov 28, 07 08:25 PM

Wow. I'd like to thank Marketplace to reminding everyone that we live in a great country where basic needs are well provided and any extra luxuries that we would like cost extra. Just like owning a car or a house there are several ongoing maintenance costs associated with that original purchase decision. If you were going to get an major repair or renovation done to any other physical asset that you own would you not inquire in several locations as to the price? Would you not be expected, as a good consumer, to shop around for the best price? Heck, you could even go and price out the materials yourself at a store. Why are we so concerned then that vets would DARE charge different prices for the medications that your pet requires? If you feel that the price is too high, then go elsewhere. If it is as easy as Marketplace showed, then a simple phone call with the name of the drug will do. Just like convenience stores charge more for products than supermarkets do, Vets that offer some added value will be able to charge slightly more for the medications than a pharmacy or even another vet does. Whether it is location, hours of operation, clientèle, or some other factor, vets that charge excessive amounts and don't offer any value will quickly go out of business. This is how the market works. How much value a customer places on something determines its price. If the cat's medication is too pricey, find another vet, or re-evaluate your decision to buy a pet - or adopt 14 of them. Are you being scammed? No. Just do your due diligence as a customer, as you would with any other long term asset that you own. The last thing that we need is another government regulation about how private business should be run. Posted by: Andrew B | Nov 28, 07 08:28 PM

It is time the general public became aware of how this Profession continually uses our affection for our pets to gouge us to line their pockets. Medication is only one side of this horror story! I'll outline two separate instances we were involved in. We had a large male Rotti approx 11 years old who had developed a growth on his eyelid. While not aggravating him, we decide to have it check to ensure it would not effect his eyesight. The first vet suggested surgery to remove it. In addition he'd have to have blood work. I'm still sure why this costly procedure formed part of the process. The second vet, while agreeing to a less costly process of "burning it off" suggested it would only grow back if not removed by surgery. The first Vet quoted $800 -$1000 to remove it. The second, were we had it done charged $205.00 & nothing for the follow up visit to remove the stitches. Perhaps someone can tell me the reason for such a large variance!? The second instance. Our 19 year old cat was showing his age & became very ill. On a visit to the local vet we were informed, via a physical examination, he suffered Renal failure. The bottom line, he was dying! No doubt noting our attachment to this long time companion, they proceeded to conduct urine & blood test. Why? This animal was in distress yet they felt compelled to conduct these tests at a cost of almost $400.00! To add insult to injury, they then attempted to persuade us, this dying animal should be place on dialysis at a costs of $150.00 per day. I was so disgusted, I drove 3 hours with this animal to the vet who operated on the dog noted above to have him put to sleep. At least this Vet's first & foremost concern was the animal & NOT HIS WALLET. Posted by: Bob Wilkins | Nov 28, 07 08:32 PM

Very disappointed in this piece. Whatever happened to responsible journalism? The terms used were very derogitory 'vets'==>these are professional people, Doctor's of veterinary medicine and deserve to be referred to as such. The proper term is 'veterinarian'. The products dispensed are 'medications' or 'pharmaceutical' not 'drugs'; this implies something negative and underhanded. The majority of veterinarians are highly educated people who have dedicated their lives to the well being of the animals under their care. Veterinary hospitals are owned by the individual doctor(s) and these doctors are solely financially responsible for them. There are no government subsidies or other financial support available to assist. As such, a veterinary hospital has to be run as a business. Surcharges help to pay for the high standard of veterinary care that the public expects. Overhead has to be taken into consideration. Salaries for professional assistants who take extra time to maintain a high standard of care must also be considered. Of course in any sector there will always be 'bad apples' but to paint such a negative picture of a profession within which are such dedicated individuals is irresponsible and, for this observer, very disappointing indeed! Posted by: A Whelan | Nov 28, 07 08:36 PM

We were disgusted with your report, and especially the arrogant self serving attitude of the President of the British Columbia Veterinarian Association. Over the years, we have spent thousands of dollars on our pets without a second thought. We found on one occasion that even vitamin pills were double the price from one vet clinic to another. We will be a lot wiser from now on thanks to your program. Lets hope our government brings in legislation the same as England has done. Posted by: Kenneth and Sheri Wood | Nov 28, 07 08:36 PM

I am a RVT (Registered Veterinary Technician) who works in the province of Ontario and I wanted to share my thoughts on this story. Veterinarians are small business owners who must have their practices licensed by the province in which they practice. In doing such, each practice must have its own pharmacy that must be stocked with different categories of drugs that are available for the veterinarians to prescribe. They must also have veterinary drug books and a recent copy of the CPP available to them. If we encourage consumers to go to the pharmacy to seek out human versions of similar drugs, than how do we expect major drug companies to continue their R&D in their veterinary divisions? If a pet has an adverse reaction to a commercial version of a drug that has been prescribed, than that company will likely investigate the reaction and often will aid the consumer and the veterinarian in the further care required for the pet. If a generic or human version (which incidentally in some cases would be an off label use of such drug ie, Synthroid vs Thyro Tabs) has been prescribed than where does the veterinarian or consumer turn to when a problem arises? Human pharmacists are not trained (nor are they licensed) to counsel pet owners as to the effects that such drugs will have on their pets. There are many drugs that are appropriate for both human and animal use but the dosages can be drastically different. In some cases this will require more time by the pet owners, pharmacist, and veterinarian to obtain these drugs. This issue should be addressed with the CVMA or the individual provincial associations, not with each individual practitioner. Drawing a comparison (ie. the cost of Tapazole) between the cost of practices across the country is also not at true comparison as each practice will have different operating costs based on where they are located. Posted by: Kara | Nov 28, 07 08:37 PM

Thanks for a great program. It's about time the vet industry came under scrutiny. Just like the pet food scandal there is still a lot we don't know because the information is difficult to root out. I actually had a vet in Ontario (he was a fairly new immigrant who had just bought my retired vet's practice) tell me he couldn't use holistic or herbal treatments or he'd lose his vet license! I am assuming the OVA would have been on his case. And yet the holistic & herbal treatments are often more effective, with fewer side effects & of course easier for a customer to buy without going to the vet. Let's face it, most vets are in it to make money not for love of animals as they would have their paying customers believe. Posted by: Mary | Nov 28, 07 08:39 PM

I have never been so angry at any example of 'journalism' in my life. Where is the fairness of presenting such a sensationalist approach? Your coverage was extraordinarily one-sided. Most non-specialist vets make the similar salaries to teachers or nurses, and are not the money grabbing villains you make them out to be. Could you not have pointed out that vet bills are much less expensive than the corresponding bills for human treatments in clinics and hospitals? Could you have mentioned pet insurance? I have been a loyal listener of CBC since I was 5 years old, but will be boycotting the mothership. Goodbye. Posted by: M. Hopson | Nov 28, 07 08:39 PM

This show was both interesting and infuriating! My veterinary team headed by Dr.Bob Spice at Cgarleswood Veterinary Clinic in Winnipeg are amazing. Their prices do not go up by leaps and bounds. I never feel overcharged and we often joke that if we needed surgery we would ask Dr. Bob to perform it if he could. They are kind, caring, compassionate and the prime concern is the quality of life of the animal involved. I have heard many outrageous stories from other people regarding their vets and their bills. I would (and do), recommend our vet to anyone. We have been going there with various cats and dogs, I think even a hamster once, for about 20 years and have never had a problem. Unfortunately like any other business there will always be those unethical types who are in it just for the money. Thankfully we do not have to deal with them. I also think that vets in general do not get the respect they deserve - human doctors treat one species, vets treat many different species and many people do not appreciate the work required to do that successfully. Posted by: gaynor powell | Nov 28, 07 08:44 PM

I feel that your story this evening was very one-sided. It is unfair to assume that vets are charging too much for their products or services. I wish you would have produced a segment titled "costs associated with running a veterinary hospital". If pet owners want to alleviate the anticipated costs of unexpected vet bills, they should enroll their pets with pet insurance while they are young and healthy. Posted by: Karen Belanger | Nov 28, 07 08:49 PM

As a veterinarian with a Master of Journalism degree I cannot say how disappointed I was in the lack of professionalism and quality of journalism presented in this sensational report. As many others have commented, Ms Johnson clearly did not take time to compare apples to apples, or to research why medication fees might be what they are in order to run a practice. I would challenge her to do a segment on salaries and clinic overhead in the veterinary profession. The higher mark-up at some clinics may be simply a reflection of their geographic location and the rent they pay to be in a heavily populated area, convenient for their clients. If clients pay for their medication elsewhere, it may be necessary to raise other fees to make ends meet for most veterinarians. I would also be curious to know if the pharmacists who are making a business of selling veterinary products have had the veterinary medical training they need to do so competently and will be able to help the client if there is a reaction or interaction (or will that be left to the vet?). And please, please, do a segment on the mark-up for furniture, clothing, groceries, etc. etc. (There is a reason why they can still make money after they discount 70% at sales!) Posted by: Dr. Jane Gates | Nov 28, 07 08:58 PM

Dear Linda Routledge: FYI, an in-clinic veterinary urinalysis is NOT just a urine test-strip exam, despite what your "nursing background" may make you think. Yes, we do a strip reading and a specific gravity reading, but the time-consuming part -- and the part we are charging for -- is the urine sediment exam to look for crystals, cellular casts, bacteria, and white and red blood cells. This procedure takes time and a skilled employee to prepare and interpret the slides under a microscope. You were not charged $219 for vaccines for three dogs - you were charged for full comprehensive physical examinations on those dogs, with vaccines as an adjunct. Our profession is trying to get people to understand that the focus point of the yearly vet visit is NOT your shots - it is having your veterinarian examine your animal and look for signs of subclinical illness and other problems. Please remember we have gone to school for YEARS, and professional services such as these cost money! Our time and expertise is not free. Perhaps you should clarify what you are getting from your vet instead of jumping to [incorrect] conclusions. Posted by: sarah | Nov 28, 07 09:01 PM

Having been involved in dog rescue for over 10 years, I am well aware of the wide range in fees for drugs and services when comparing the costs of Veterinary care. The days of James Herriot style Vets are long gone, but there are still some down to earth and caring Vets out there, who do not view the pet-owning public just as someone who carries a wallet. It really does pay to shop around when looking for a Vet. One who is open and honest, is willing to talk about cost-saving alternatives for long-term care, and is there for you and your animal first and foremost. Such a Vet is worth a little extra travel or inconvenience. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and if you get hostility and intimidation instead of answers, look elsewhere! Posted by: Dog Lover | Nov 28, 07 09:05 PM

I always knew there was a markup but not how much. There are far too many animals being put down because people can't afford to treat them. It is ridiculous that vets are allowed to charge that much. Pharmacies aren't allowed to mark up beyond that point. When my dog developed arthritis the vet tried to sell me glycosamine. I bought the human version and he is doing fine on it. I also use the same arthritis meds for him as I take my self. I save a lot of money doing that and I am not being faced with the choice of having him put down because he is in to much pain. I had a cat a long time ago with diabetes and the vet actually told me to get the meds from a pharmacy because it would be cheaper. they don't make vets like that anymore. Vets are simply taking advantage of the people who really care about there pets. people don't see cats and dogs as just animals they see them as part of the family. The reason there are so many unwanted animals is because people can't afford to have them fixed. I will definitely be checking prices from now on. Or buying meds on line. Posted by: Brenda Bueckert | Nov 28, 07 09:05 PM

I really enjoyed your program about vets' prices. I have already had a similar experience in Toronto when I was trying to get one of my cat's teeth cleaned. I received quotes at several vets ranging in prices of hundreds of dollars. There is already a pharmacy in Toronto similar to the pharmacy you portrayed in Quebec. It is called Broadview Pharmacy and it is on Broadview Avenue near Gerard, opposite the Don Jail. Their prices are amazing, even for prescription items. They sell animal as well as human medicine and can order anything you need for your pet at a much reduced rate. Posted by: Carole Forrest | Nov 28, 07 09:10 PM

As a vet student I must admit I am ashamed at the quality of journalism marketplace claims to have. Veterinarians are professionally trained doctors who are working as a general practitioner, pharmacologist, radiologist, surgeon, dentist and etc. and must run a business on top of all of these other qualifications. A pharmacist is trained to dispense human drugs to people, and is not qualified to answer questions that people may have about drugs and there interactions with animals, did marketplace specify the dose of drug required? The dose, and amount of medication (i.e number of pills) will also change the price of these drugs. If my objective was to make money I would have chosen human medicine. Posted by: Vet Student | Nov 28, 07 09:16 PM

There is no question over the last 10 years pets have become more like family members, touch and improve the lives of people every day, and for many elderly persons, a dog or cat may be the only companion they have. Perhaps as no surprise, higher standards of companion animal care are now expected by pet owners. Because of the change in social “value” of companion animals, the average person is more willing to spend more disposable income on the family pet. One of the examples CBC used was “Metacam” (Meloxicam/Mobicox) – a very commonly prescribed non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication to help alleviate arthritis pain in dogs. “Metacam” is the veterinary drug; Meloxicam/Mobicox is the human form. The human form of Metacam is very different and considered unsafe to use in dogs. Why? Metacam is a liquid which can be measured to be given at a specific dose each day. Meloxicam is available in unscored 7.5 mg and 15 mg tablets. Unless your dog weighs exactly 75 or 150 kg, you cannot safely dose this drug in dogs! This issue comes up very frequently, and if you explain to the client why the human form is not as safe as the canine form, they always chose to spend more money on the safer drug. The markup percentage of drugs sold at veterinary clinics is influenced by the whole financial picture of the business. If drug revenue was abolished, the cost of office exams, lab work, surgeries etc. would only have to go up. If only human doctors offices would display the fees they charge the government, then the lay public would understand the “deal” they are getting for veterinary care for their pet. The average cost of a full physical examination and consultation for your pet is about $75. For the same service by your family physician, I bet they bill the government for over $400. Finally, let us not forget how many billions of dollars the pharmaceutical companies make in profit each year – they’re the real winners when “dogs are on drugs”. Posted by: Veterinarian from Kingston, ON | Nov 28, 07 09:17 PM

Well, well, that could have been a really interesting report, unfortunately it turned out to be one of the most one-sided and biased reports on professional services I have ever seen. Disclosure: I am a veterinarian. I would like both viewers/pet owners and the makers of this program to consider the following thoughts before once and for all condemning veterinarians as being money-makers only. First of all, I would be interested to see the actual figures from the 100-vets survey on drug prices. I do not believe that the majority of vets would charge anywhere near the mentioned 200-400 percent mark-ups. Most vets are probably somewhere near the 100% markup range or less for the majority of their prescription drugs. By the way, at this point, I am asking myself, without intending to launch any personal attacks here, whether the presenter of the program cares what the mark-up on her lipstick, handbag, jeans, coat, car, cat carrier, ... was. Or her kitchen furniture. Likely a whole lot more than 100%. And prices for any of those items, or any other random item one may want to buy, do vary considerably, too, depending on where one wants to shop and what one's priorities are. I am not saying that I agree with markups on drugs that are much higher than 100%, but it is certainly true that if veterinarians were forced to sell drugs at a markup of, say, 30%, then the fees for consulting, surgeries, radiographs, and other professional services, would rise considerably. In this case, many pet owners would not be able to afford even a consultation. Needless to say that veterinary clinics all have their own and unique expenses and therefore will charge different fees and prices, just as any other small business. Posted by: Andreas Brieger Part1 | Nov 28, 07 09:18 PM

Consider also that out of all professions, vets are extremely good value for money and are on average the lowest paid professionals- this includes support staff and technicians. I doubt that anybody from the CBC production team would be prepared to work for the average salaries being paid in the vet profession. Consider further that veterinary medicine is not just a business, it is a science that constantly needs to update itself -at the price of attending expensive courses- to be able to offer the service that pet owners want for their pets, which is in many cases the same level of expertise or better than in human medicine- this is driven by client demand! One always gets what one pays for- many vet clinics or offices chose to offer only basic services and ask only low fees for this, and will refer more complicated cases to more expensive referral centers where equipment and highly skilled vet and support staff cost much more money than at a local vet office. Just a few comments on things mentioned in the report: in the UK (where I practiced for six years until 2006), vets now have to display the prices of the ten most commonly sold prescription items in the waiting room. Nothing wrong with that, from my point of view, and why not do it in Canada, too? BUT those prices are not regulated in the UK, so every clinic can charge what they want, so it does not change anything, really. Buying pet medicine on prescription at a pharmacy is certainly an alternative, however, this means a certain inconvenience for pet owners and many (the majority) of pet owners in the UK, where this was also an option for years now, chose not to do that. to be continued... Posted by: Andreas Brieger, Part2 | Nov 28, 07 09:22 PM

The show tonight was very insulting. If you go to a fast food place do you complain on what you're paying? At McDonalds we pay over 2 bucks for a drink. Do you know what it actually costs them? Like 1 cent. They are making thousands of dollars just on drinks alone. But when it comes to "Vets" I guess you don't see them as being real "Dr's." They don't get paid if they sell at cost. They provide a service and actually care for the patients and listen to the clients. I myself work in a clinic and don't get paid as much as an employee at McDonald's makes and I spent thousands of dollars to go to school to do this but I am doing it truly not for the money but for the animals. I help and watch the dr's save animals' lives everyday and they get little respect for it. People yell about prices, call them stupid and want tests and results done immediately at no cost. Posted by: Monica | Nov 28, 07 09:23 PM

WOW, how one sided is this story. Next time let's see CBC do a real story, maybe complete an entire show with all sides covered. Where do I start.... that conference you showed at the beginning is paid for by the individual who goes or the clinic itself not the drug companies. The Drug companies may sponsor it, but we still have to pay to go and see what is new. Animal medicine is changing everyday and in order to keep up with the new developments we have to attend those conference so we can better treat your pet. If an owner is going to decide where to take their pet based on cost alone, I feel very sorry for those owners as they are probably not going to get the care their animal deserves. As for going to pharmacies to get a prescription filled, we do have clients doing this and telling us they are not really saving all that much. Pharmacies have mark-ups and prescription fees as well, but I guess you FORGOT to ask them what they are charging. Also what pharmacies are charging is probably turning more of a profit then what we charge, as most of our cost goes into overhead production, paying staff, equipment, and any other costs that a buisness needs to run. Lets also talk about the fact the pharmacists are not Veterinarians, they don't know what side effects can occur with certain drugs, drug interactions, etc. The vet takes time to go over all that information with the client and clients also receive phone calls to see how medications are going and if the owner has any questions we are there to answer them, not a pharmacist. Also, most animal drugs are made for them, for example the liquid drug you showed and then getting the pill at a pharmacy, you forgot to mention the fact that by doing the liquid formulation you eliminate the chance of getting ulcers from pills, oh yeah you FORGOT that too. Posted by: Katie | Nov 28, 07 09:26 PM

I noticed that you didn't mention Saskatchewan, and what the cost difference was between vets on Phenobarbital. My dog is epileptic. Posted by: Coreen Ziegler | Nov 28, 07 09:31 PM

On the other hand, there are other countries (France, for example) where it is completely normal for vets and pet owners alike to get pet meds on a prescription from a pharmacy- vet's don't really stock a lot of drugs at their offices there but their consulting fees are higher, so it does not make a huge difference for the clients. I don't feel that it serves any purpose other than TV sensationalism to stage a kind of "war" between vets and pharmacists. As a veterinary health professional, I care whether a prescription is being filled correctly, and whether the administration and possible side effects are being explained well- if a pharmacist can do that, then why not. However, it is not the pharmacist that the clients will call in the middle of the night, but the veterinarian who prescribed the drug, so I tend to think that this is one factor in justifying a slightly higher markup on drugs dispensed by vets. to be continued Posted by: Andreas Brieger, Part3 | Nov 28, 07 09:33 PM

In the end, my impression of the whole program was one of sensationalist pseudo-journalism that leaves unreported the extremely caring and knowledgeable nature of veterinary services, the need to pay staff and the generally very high regard in which members of the public hold their veterinarians. This is no different in Canada, the UK or Germany, where I come from. Given the fact that variation on prices is normal for a free market and that most of the program focused on the extremes of an otherwise quite normal range of mark-ups, I don't think that the makers of this program really had a lot to say. I had a good laugh when the veterinary conference in the program was portrayed as a luxury event for the rich vets- have you ever been to a human medical conference for comparison, or one in the electronics industry? This vet conference, any vet conference, is very modest and certainly not a jet-set affair. Vets go there to learn, to inform themselves and to meet their colleagues for both social and professional reasons, NOT to indulge in caviar and champagne on the revenues from the clients this program claims to have been ripped off. to be continue Posted by: Andreas Brieger, Part 4 | Nov 28, 07 09:34 PM

I loved your program, and now even enjoy reading your comments forum even more. Marketplace looks to me like it has rattled a few cages. Most of the Vets are furious on this site.To me it is quite amusing reading them. Some on here are complaining how poorly vets are been paid, well you chose your profession, no one ask you to become a vet, you could have become a GP. Specially when some say, how poorly vets are paid. Salary Survey Report for Job: Veterinarian in Toronto is ; $66,262 I do not think that is a bad salary. Since we just found out from The United Way of Greater Toronto says 30 per cent of Toronto families, amounting to about 93,000 households, are living in poverty. Vets should ask themselves are you charging for need or greed? The fact is the vets finally have been caught cheating the Canadian people, I am from the U.K and find it disgusting. So my Canadian Pet lovers rise up and demand for your Government to step in. It worked in the U.K it can work for you. Stop being doormats. You all have rights and so have your pets. Posted by: David | Nov 28, 07 09:35 PM

First I am not a veterinarian and I feel that this report was a terrible piece of journalism. The CBC should review their policy on what qualifies as journalism. Why didn't the journalist interview the drug companies and pharmacists on what their margins are on the drugs that they sell? Go to BayerCrop Science and you will find record financial year for 2007 $993 million Euro!!!! The pharmacists from Quebec charges 30% which means if he sells $1 million dollars of drugs he is making $300,000 in profit. It is funny that the same pharmacist didn’t mention how much he makes on over the counter medications, mark ups of over 75%. I can’t believe the CBC would encourage pet owners to get their prescription drugs from a pharmacist, who knows very little about the animal drug interactions or the history of drug interactions of the animal, one could say that it borderlines on liable. One could see the next sensational market place report, pharmacists all they care about is 30% margins and really don’t know what drugs they are giving your pet. Why didn’t the journalist discuss the amount of charitable work each veterinarian does every year? My veterinarian takes in and finds homes for the animals that can’t fit into the over crowded humane society. They also provide free care for certain cases much like lawyers who do pro bono work. Posted by: Bill | Nov 28, 07 09:36 PM

We should start a national system like our British friends did and see what blowhards have to say about it. I for the life of me cannot believe words coming out of such selfish individuals. This is about life and caring for the sick. Pets are human and to say sorry you will have to maybe put your pet down due to cost is very wrong. Posted by: frank urszulan | Nov 28, 07 09:43 PM

I can't even begin to explain how upset this evening's episode of MarketPlace made me. The way that the veterinary profession was attacked right from the moment the show began was terrible. Veterinarians spend a minimum of six years of post secondary study, and often have tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt to work in a profession where they know they will never "get rich." Veterinarians enter the profession because of their love of animals, people and the human-animal bond. As pets become more and more a part of our families, owners expect veterinary services offered to be closer to what is provided for people. This comes with a price tag. I also felt the show was misleading in its comparison of veterinary drugs and the "exact human equivalent". For instance, in the comparison of the human thyroid supplement soloxine vs the veterinary thyroid supplement Thyro-tabs, the human supplement was shown to be significantly cheaper. What was not shown was that the typical dose of medication given to dogs is often 5-10 times larger that the dose given to people. Generally the highest concentration of medication that human pharmacies carry is 0.2mg. Many dogs take 0.8 mg once or twice daily. Using human formulated drugs means giving the dog 4 tablets every twelve hours. For many owners this is not desirable. Because the market for the veterinary formulated drugs is much smaller, the cost of the medication itself is significantly more. This is just one example of the huge information holes left by the journalist. Definitely pet owners should ask questions and take an active role in their pet's health. However, it should be kept in mind that veterinarians went through a long process of study (and continue to study) to be able to give your pet the best care possible. Sometimes things that seem to be straightforward are not always so. Posted by: L. Kramer | Nov 28, 07 09:49 PM

I can't believe it! THANK YOU CBC News for investigating and reporting on this matter. I think we should follow in the UK's shoes and make this a legal matter forcing vets to follow a SET price guide, or charge for the meds at COST plus a set $15.00 "prescription fill" fee (or whatever it's called). Posted by: Ashleigh | Nov 28, 07 09:52 PM

We spent almost $6000.00 on our puppy due to recurring bouts of diarrhea and vomiting which began when she was 3 months old. We did take the time to speak with our vet about the financial situation and that our puppy had her own line of credit. Nothing changed, and when she was 13 months old we finally had to give her up. We felt that we were being taken for a ride but we had a sick dog who we loved very much and trusted that our Vet along with ourselves would do almost anything for her to remain a part of our family. BOY WERE WE SUCKERS! This situation has left such a sour taste in our mouths that we will NEVER get another animal again. The heartbreak of having to give her up was too much to ever bear again. Shame on you all who take advantage of others in weak times, I don't know how you live with yourselves. I am a paramedic, I got into this profession to help people not to line my wallet. You know the only ones who suffer from this disgusting greed is the animals who will never be able to be adopted out because people cannot afford them. Posted by: Jen | Nov 28, 07 09:56 PM

There is no question over the last 10 years pets have become more like family members, touch and improve the lives of people every day, and for many elderly persons, a dog or cat may be the only companion they have. Perhaps as no surprise, higher standards of companion animal care are now expected by pet owners. Because of the change in social “value” of companion animals, the average person is more willing to spend more disposable income on the family pet. One of the examples CBC used was “Metacam” (Meloxicam/Mobicox) – a very commonly prescribed non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication to help alleviate arthritis pain in dogs. “Metacam” is the veterinary drug; Meloxicam/Mobicox is the human form. The human form of Metacam is very different and considered unsafe to use in dogs. Why? Metacam is a liquid which can be measured to be given at a specific dose each day. Meloxicam is available in unscored 7.5 mg and 15 mg tablets. Unless your dog weighs exactly 75 or 150 kg, you cannot safely dose this drug in dogs! This issue comes up very frequently, and if you explain to the client why the human form is not as safe as the canine form, they always chose to spend more money on the safer drug. The markup percentage of drugs sold at veterinary clinics is influenced by the whole financial picture of the business. If drug revenue was abolished, the cost of office exams, lab work, surgeries etc. would only have to go up. If only human doctors offices would display the fees they charge the government, then the lay public would understand the “deal” they are getting for veterinary care for their pet. The average cost of a full physical examination and consultation for your pet is about $ 75. For the same service by your family physician, I bet they bill the government for over $ 400. Finally, let us not forget how many billions of dollars the pharmaceutical companies make in profit each year – they’re the real winners when “dogs are on drugs”. Posted by: Cameron, DVM | Nov 28, 07 10:18 PM

I would like to know how this "journalist" thinks that pets will continue to receive medical care once veterinarians can't afford to stay in business any longer because of one-sided, misguided reports like this. This is not just about the medications. If you want your veterinarian to be there for your animals when you need them to be, you need to make it possible for them to make a living, and there are many, many expenses that go into running a veterinary clinic. If the journalist had done any amount of research into this topic, she would realize that veterinarians are far from rich, as any salary survey could tell her. Posted by: L.M. | Nov 28, 07 10:29 PM

Having caught the last 10min of the program maybe I missed the objective part (I'll be sure to watch the repeat). As consumers, OUR responsibility IS to seek info and discern where we should(n't) spend our dollars. We have the right to spend where we want, and can ALWAYS go somewhere else if unhappy. So often we're concerned with vet bills but rarely do we evaluate those associated with human health thanks to government subsidies. To those who think human meds are not grossly marked up, or that human care isn't costly, consider the last time you had disclosure of costs for your health (did your gp give you generic/promoted meds?), consider volume of human meds vs veterinary, consider veterinarians give COMPREHENSIVE care and many pharmacists, while knowledgeable and trained, are not *DOCTORS* who have access to health records, are not following up on a regular basis, don't recheck bloodwork for dose changes/potential toxic side-effects/etc. I hope CBC provides opportunity for rebuttal as the bias was beyond ridiculous regardless of the topic itself. We're quick to blame vets yet it seems people are OK spending the same amount on alcohol/cigarettes/tv's/etc that do nothing for their health (mental/physical) and wellbeing that pets do. In a day where pets are viewed as chattel under the law, providing appropriate care for our 4 footed friends is indeed a luxury. I hope the first half of this program is more objective than the latter, though I have doubts. Regardless of what we pay as consumers, we need to bear in mind veterinarians are DOCTORS. They provide comprehensive care for our other family members, not just putting pills in a bottle and reading a page with potential side effects. They have significantly more overhead/education/etc than a pharmacist on the corner drug store. Last,but not least, if you don't trust your vet's recommendations/billing practices/etc - what on earth are you doing there? Posted by: KN | Nov 28, 07 10:30 PM

What concerns me more than the medication issue is the so-called "premium" or "prescription" pet foods that many vets sell and actively promote. Commercial pet food products are highly-processed, full of preservatives, and often cause more problems than they purport to solve. If pets were fed proper diets in the first place, most wouldn't need special formulations for "digestive issues" or "extra-shiny fur" or whatever the latest advertising gimmick is. I would not be surprised if the "animal nutrition" classes that veterinary students take are partly sponsored (or even taught) by representatives from Iams, Purina and other large pet food manufacturers. When I adopted my second cat, I took her to the vet for a check-up and some advice about how to deal with her near-constant diarrhea and digestive upsets. I was told my new kitty needed special food (coincidentally, the expensive "prescription" brand sold exclusively through their office) and when I said I would prefer to try transitioning the cat to a raw-food diet, I was told that was a bad idea because "the bacteria in raw meat is dangerous and could make her sick"! And this doctor had trained at one of the best veterinary schools in Canada. What exactly are they learning about animal nutrition there? By the way, I started transitioning my cat to a raw-food diet the very next morning, and within 10 days, she was eating 100% raw food without any digestive or elimination problems whatsoever. It's been two years now and she hasn't had a single health problem since, nor has she ever gotten sick from "dangerous bacteria". It's time vets stopped promoting -- and selling -- junk food to their clients. Posted by: Tanja | Nov 28, 07 10:31 PM

It is understandable that veterinarians have overhead and other costs to cover. What is unfortunate is that some think the money to be made is more important then the ill animal. I purchased a puppy for my aunt in September. She then took it in for its recommended booster shots. Four days later the puppy became very ill. After sitting for 2 hours to get looked, the vet decided that the puppy needed fluids, a zantac and then informed my aunt the puppy was depressed and to take her home and play with her. The cost of the visit - $284.00. Two days later my aunt rushed her to another clinic(she couldn't get in to see the original veterinarian) and was told the dog needed bloodwork, x rays and medications. It was decided she had a kidney problem and would need surgery that was estimated to be $2000.00 in order to help the puppy. Total cost of the visit - $498.00. Upon contacting the breeder's veterinarian who requested copies of the puppy's results we had a real shock. She was given too much dosage on her booster - she had a reaction. The second vet never actually took any x rays but still charged for them. Her kidneys were fine and she wasn't depressed. My aunt will now be driving the 5 hours to Saskatchewan to see the breeder's veterinarian. It may cost more but its less heartache and we know he is someone we can trust. Posted by: Tracie Friesen | Nov 28, 07 10:32 PM

I am thoroughly disgusted at how one sided your story was. Shame on you. I have worked as a registered AHT for 21 years and have NEVER been employed by a veterinarian who has marked up their drugs by 300%! You insinuate lack of compassion and money grubbing. Should compassionate medicine be free? I shall from now on doubt the integrity of any CBC investigative report, actually I won't even bother to watch them at all! Posted by: Jane Asher, AHT | Nov 28, 07 10:45 PM

I wonder if all your news reports are as "Sensational" and ONE SIDED as this one. Like many veterinarians across Canada, I did not get into the business of vet. Medicine to live the high life. Contrary to what you suggest on your show it is NOT a profession of profit. I obtained almost $200 000 debt during the 10 yrs of university it took me to become a vet. Do you think I am rolling in the big bucks when I have almost $1500 a month in student loan payments alone? I will never see the 6-figure salaries that human medical professionals see, and I went to school for the same length of time! Does that stop us from being any less passionate about what we do and what we stand for? I care a great deal about my clients and their pets so I offer the best. However, owning a pet is a responsibility, and with responsibility comes the cost of caring for that pet. While I agree with you on the point there shouldn't be such a diversity in the costs of pharmaceuticals across the board, I ALWAYS offer my clients a another option and work together with them to determine what’s best for their situation. You also forget to mention what goes on behind the scenes when a doctor leaves the exam room - the extra time we spend researching a case, comparing medications and side effects, choosing the appropriate, safest and effective therapy for our patients, even dragging home books to read at night after our 16 hour day b/c we know Fluffy is waiting for us at the hospital in the morning and we have to come up with some way to help her. I can't remember the countless times I have scripted medications out to pharmacies for clients. I have even taken my OWN professional time at no charge to the client to phone around and compare costs. I do this because I CARE, not because I am trying to gouge people. So, my final comment on this show is GIVE ME A BREAK! Find someone else to pick on because we have lives to save. Posted by: Disgusted Veterinarian | Nov 28, 07 10:50 PM

I have to agree that it is not just the cost of prescriptions that are out of hand. This past summer I lost my best friend when a car mowed her down. By the time I got her to the closest vet (30 min. away) I was, to say the least, extremely distraught and willing to do or pay anything to keep her with me. She was taken into an examination room, while I was told to wait in another room. After what seemed a lifetime the vet came in and said that she would have to take an xray. When they wheeled her past me she already had an iv going into her and a band wrapped around her stomach. Again after what seemed to be a very long time, I was told that she would need surgery and that they didn't have they could not to do it at the office we were in. The vet then began to tell me that the cost would be $1700-$2500 and that they could not say whether she would make it through or not. My daughter and grand-daughter were with me (thankfully) and, between us we decided that it would be unfair to put her through this and probably still lose her. In the end my beautiful friend was "put to rest". It was then explained that she could be "prepared" ($150) for us, and picked up the next day to take home and buried or she could be sent for cremation, either with all the other animals that were to be cremated that month($200) or by herself($250). I was then given a choice of a wooden box($60) or a ceramic urn ($75) to have her placed in. The cost of everything added up was over $1200+tax! (Xray, IV, bandage on stomach, "put to rest", cremated, urn) This all happened in late May. I am still trying to pay the bill so that I can bring her home! I have to agree with another of your viewers that at a time of great stress over losing a member of our family we seem to be taken advantage of by someone that we trust! I think it is time for the government to intervene because it would seem to me that the Veterinarian Associations are doing a very poor job of policing themselves! Posted by: Carol | Nov 28, 07 10:52 PM

I am greatly insulted by this show. The doctors they interviewed were clearly chosen for their sound bites and not their professional merit. I can't believe what they said about putting down pets if the owners won't pay. My dad is a vet and if an owner says that, we either try to work something out or we keep the pet in our hospital and absorb the treatment costs until a suitable home can be found. Two of our own pets have been acquired that way. Things like that are why there are mark ups on things like drugs. That mark up isn't going straight to profit. It's paying for things like what I just explained, as well as towards buying equipment that will help provide better service, such as lasers for surgery so pets have a quicker recovery time and costs can be reduced for the clients. After watching this show I now realize that I cannot trust the CBC and will not be watching any of its news programming. Posted by: Stephanie Murfin | Nov 28, 07 10:52 PM

I was very dismayed at your portrayal of a veterinary convention. You neglected to mention the primary reason vets gather for these occasions is to gain valuable continuing education, sit in HOURS of lectures and wet labs so that we might improve our professional skills and knowledge, remaining current with advancing technology and medicine so that we may continue to provide the best service and advice for our clients and the very best of care for their pets. OF COURSE we love to discuss our profession and learn from other colleagues while we are there. Why is it wrong for us to enjoy dinner & a beverage with colleagues and learn from others in our profession? Even vets are entitled to a break! Posted by: Annoyed DVM | Nov 28, 07 11:00 PM

I was so happy someone finally informed the public about drug price differentials between prescriptions for people and those of pets! I own a dog who is now at least 16 years old (I had him for 14) and for the last two years I have been getting his medicine filled at a pharmacy for half the cost of what it would be at the veterinary clinic. I pay entirely for the meds myself at the pharmacy and am very upset with the way the vet clinic in my community has changed now that my old vet has moved on to a surgical hospital and sold his practice. My dog's Gastro Medi-Cal dry dogfood has jumped $7.00 and the canned stuff has risen $1.00 or so in the last 2 years. The cost of taking my dog to the vet is now almost as expensive as it would be for me going to the doctor if I had no provincial healthcare insurance. My original vet is across the city and I have to board 2 buses and a train to get to him while his old practice is 2 blocks away from where I live. I have therefore had to become very creative in treating my dog using homeopathic medicine and getting prescriptions for him elsewhere so that I can continue being a loving pet owner to my dog and not have to put him down as was suggested to me by the replacement vet at the local clinic when I told her that I did not have the money to continuously bring him in for shots every year, prescriptions at the rate stated to me, yearly office visits in addition to every incidental visit and so on. I really miss my old veterinarian as he used to allow me to set up a monthly payment plan if expenses got to be too high for me to handle on my salary at the bank. Now there is a sign posted on the wall of the clinic saying that they expect full payment in cash and that they will no longer accept cheques as payment for services rendered. I miss my old vet- he was a wonderful caring compassionate man and doctor to my "best friend" and I placed as much trust in his skills and he did in me paying the bill. Posted by: Rene | Nov 28, 07 11:01 PM

Your report was disgustingly unfair. You deliberately portrayed veterinarians (and I am NOT one) as money-grubbing. When showing the conference, you conveniently omitted the fact that many of the pharmaceutical companies sponsor the medical seminars that are so important in the continuing education of the veterinary team. You obviously understand nothing. Vets and their staff work harder than most professions and noone seems to think they deserve any better than living in a trailer under a bridge. Posted by: Andrea Bates | Nov 28, 07 11:03 PM

It is unfortunate that your program focussed on the veterinarian doctors who are overcharging, because my vet is going to get painted with the same brush and he is not one of your offenders. I have followed him through three practices (You forgot to mention that the veterinarian who sees your animal companion is not necessarily the one who sets the prices, because they are not always self-employed) and he has always managed to keep my costs in control. Who sponsored the convention you highlighted? Was it a national convention? 600 out of how many veterinarians country-wide were there? I guarantee you that my vet wasn't - he couldn't afford to go. The lesson to learn here is to do your homework before going to a vet, develop a good and open communication with your vet, and then appreciate the hell out of them when they can't afford to retire or take a real vacation because they haven't overcharged you. There are vets whose only concern is the bottom line. And then there are those like my vet, who do it for the animals and for us and happen to make a living in the process. Thank-you for educating the public about veterinary medication prices, but shame on you for giving the impression that all vets are gouging us. Posted by: Lynn Bandura | Nov 28, 07 11:04 PM

It's not just medications, it's also if you need prescription pet foods. The local vet clinic charges $54 per case for a product that wholesales for less than $34. Unfortunately, you can't get the food at a pharmacy. Posted by: Heidi | Nov 28, 07 11:05 PM

Thank you for showing your show on pet meds. I do think that it is not right that in Canada there are no set prices that the vets can charge. We are totally at their mercy. We need to adopt Europe's new standard about how vets need to post there prices. Its also so the surgery and the check ups that cost a fortune. At least now I may not be so nice if I take my cat to the vet. I am going to question the vet and I am going to put up a fight. We love our animals and it is not fair to charge us so much. Humans have an affordable health care system, so why can't we do the same for pets? We need to petition about this so that what has happened in Europe can happen here in BC. Posted by: Brenda | Nov 28, 07 11:06 PM

I am a pharmacist and I routinely dispense medications for animals - both as proprietary solid oral dosage forms (tablets and capsules) and as specialty compounded suspensions, solutions and capsules. I have never, ever, found a drug that I can not provide at a lower cost than the vet - and usually at half the cost or less. The reason is simple, GREED, vets are allowed to dispense medications and they see it as a God given right to charge whatever the market will bear (as proof look at the attitude of the head of the B.C. Veterinary Association in your interview). Have you ever wondered why medical doctors do not (except under very unusual circumstances) dispense medications? The answer is simple - they are NOT allowed! The reason they are not allowed is that there is a straight forward conflict of interest in the connection between prescribing and dispensing. It was acknowledged many many years ago that the temptation to monopolize the dispensing of drugs by prescribers is too great to allow, so a very rigid line was created between the two roles. This separation has not occurred in the Veterinary world and as a result the Vets see dispensing as a cash cow to be milked for all it is worth. Posted by: C. Bonell | Nov 28, 07 11:07 PM

I was so disappointed at Marketplace tonight as it was not fair in presenting both sides of the story and had some inaccurate information. I saw the Metacam and Novo Meloxicam compared as a similar drug yet do people know that the tablets are much more dangerous for your pet in regards to bleeding gastric ulcers? My thing is is...pharmacists and their staff do NOT know how these drugs work on animals. Nor do they know how to administer and the problems associated with that. I would rather trust my veterinarian about drug reactions than my pharmacist. Dogs are NOT people. I do agree that the markup should be standardized but I do NOT agree that people who do NOT know pets should sell these drugs. Posted by: Molly | Nov 28, 07 11:07 PM

Wow ... this one sided show seemed like it was attacking vets for being in a business. If we believe the premise that the government should control profit margins, then we need to test the premise in other areas. What about in gas, jewelry, clothing, vehicles, plane tickets etc. Pet drugs are not the only product that is grossly inflated. Buyer beware ... the first rule in consumer education. In many of the shows Marketplace advocates that the government needs to take more control from the public. Why not start to advocate personal responsibility? As consumers and citizens, we need to research and educate ourselves, not look for "big brother" to protect us. With each new piece of legislation we ask for, we give up our freedom of choice. Posted by: S Andrews | Nov 28, 07 11:08 PM

Erica Johnson, I commend you. Thank you for bringing "life and death" information to caring pet owners. I was outraged at the flip comments from the Vet Association. I hope he is replaced with someone who will ACTUALLY represent the pets. You were accurate to point out that thousands of pets are destroyed or denied homes due to the cost of medication. Yes, vets deserve to make a living but when the life of the animal is lost due to disgusting profit making.....it's NOT acceptable. As a owner of 5 rescued animals, I've had to go without medication for myself to be able to keep them healthy and out of pain. Posted by: Lesley | Nov 28, 07 11:09 PM

It doesn't surprise me at all that there is such a disparity in Vets pricing here in Canada. But how receptive will Vets be now when someone asks for upfront pricing. Which hopefully will happen. We do live in a market economy after all. 30% should be the max a Vet can charge without disclosing the cost and mark up or the choice of having a prescription. Something needs to be legislated in order to maintain public confidence... Lets face it if a Vet charges 200-300% mark up whats to say they don't prescribe medicines which aren't really needed? Posted by: Craig Bridges | Nov 28, 07 11:10 PM

As a pet owner, I thought I had a clear comment to make. But after reading some of the other comments, I agree that the comparison between human and veterinarian drug pricing not to be as simple as was made out on the program (though I do think a 30% mark-up is good by any standard). As a recent resident to Vancouver from Toronto, one thing that was not mentioned, and that I was surprised to discover, is that in BC there is a 3 year rabies vaccine whereas in Ontario, it requires an annual visit. There should be some policy in place to remove outdated medicines such as this, whose only possible reason for being is to make extra money. Posted by: David | Nov 28, 07 11:12 PM

Good job, another great show about the vets. Another group ripping off people. Just like the government, car dealers, etc.... And abusing people when they are emotionally vulnerable. Looks like you got a lot of letters from the vets as well. Ha ha.. Posted by: Gerry Mawdsley | Nov 28, 07 11:14 PM

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful! It is about time someone covered this subject. My friend, a working single mother, paid $3,800 in vet's fees for treatment of her cat. When my own cat became ill with an abscess I was going down the same road. When the bill reached $800 I had no choice but to have my cat put down. The rage and guilt I felt at losing my cat because I did not have the money to continue treatment has never left me. Vets are fully aware of the emotional attachment people have for their pets and use it to their advantage. Vets who practice this greed should be boycotted by the public. Posted by: Pearl Curtis | Nov 28, 07 11:16 PM

Anytime we, as consumers, are educated as to our own rights it is a good thing. Perhaps this will help to bring about a healthier competition to the pet health care market. I know I feel much more empowered to ask for a prescription and to "shop around" for my veterinarian. Posted by: L. Painter | Nov 28, 07 11:17 PM

Yes, vets do provide a service and must make a living. And yes, 99.9% of them are caring individuals who are not recognized for what they do. I wouldn't trade my vet for anything. However... a 300% markup? That's completely unreasonable, and yes, it is gouging. I have had 2 diabetic cats in my life, one of whom died this summer after 4 years of treatment for diabetes and, later in his life, for kidney failure. The vets who treated him were kind and caring. Although they didn't mention that I could get the drugs he needed from a people pharmacy, I had the bright idea one day to ask. I don't have a car and going to the vet's every couple of weeks for cat drugs was going to be a pain. The Walmart pharmacy was more convenient for me. The pharmacist knows me as the "lady with the cat". (Incidentally, Erica, ask your vet about glargine - an insulin used in humans that works better in cats than Caninsulin. You can get glargine at the human pharmacy, but not Caninsulin.) Also, if your cat needs Ringer's lactate or other fluids for at-home administration of subcutaneous fluids, check out your local home medical supplies store. I paid $18.95 for 1000mls at the vet's and it's about $4 from the medical supplies store. As for the diabetic cat, ask your vet for a demonstration on taking blood glucose levels at home. All you need is a human's glucometer, test strips and practice pricking the cat's ear. (They get used to it) Although the cat still has to be monitored by the vet, you may not have to visit the office quite so often if you do home testing. When the cat is stressed out, it's difficult to get an accurate reading at the vet's anyway, as stress raises blood sugar. And last, but not least, buy pet health insurance. It may save you from bankruptcy! Posted by: K Morrow | Nov 28, 07 11:27 PM

It is expensive to become a vet but to charge over four times for a drug that the vet pays for is outrageous. Interesting program if only to see what an amazingly arrogant individual the BC Veterinary Association president is. Posted by: jason | Nov 28, 07 11:27 PM

I could not believe how unprofessional and one sided your show was tonight. I am a registered veterinary technician. I work in this field because of my love of animals. I struggle to make my rent and bill payments every month because I do not get paid half as well as nurses do. Meanwhile I do more than most nurses do in a day in different areas of the hospital and on more than one species. Did you even bother to inquire about a veterinary hospital's overhead? The problem in BC is not the mark up of drugs, it's about incompetent vets and staff that charge small fees and make the rest of us look bad. Did you even think about looking into the average cost for human health care? You would not be questioning what our clinics charge if you did. We do offer our clients the choice to get their medications from us or the pharmacy, most like the convenience of getting them right then and there. We've also had pharmacists refuse to fill prescriptions from us because they are not properly trained in veterinary medicine. There also are different distributors, that charge different prices.You also should have looked into the reputations and lawsuits against some of the veterinarians you used in your report and you would have found that they weren't the people that other veterinarians should be compared to. Owning an animal is a right and not a privilege. They cost money, if you can't afford to have them taken care of properly, then you should not own one. There is also such a thing as pet insurance. Maybe you should try researching that as well. One last point, you didn't bother to mention that human pharmacies purchase medications in much larger quantities and therefore receive a much larger discounted price than veterinary hospitals will ever get. Next time you want to bash and degrade a profession, try doing your homework. Posted by: Lisa, RVT | Nov 28, 07 11:35 PM

Judging from all the negative comments from vets it would seem that indeed many people have watched the show. GREAT. Perhaps pet owners will see that some vets are indeed just trying to reach as far as possible into our pockets. Posted by: Fred | Nov 28, 07 11:53 PM

As well as paying very high mark-ups for pet medication one usually has to pay for a check-up in order to get the prescription. In BC the fee guide rate for a check-up is $57.50 so you have to add that on to the medication costs. Where I live all the vets seem to charge the same amount for a check-up. Do all provinces now have fee guides? Do any US States have them? I have been told that they probably would not be legal there. What do residents of other provinces pay for check-ups? What a wonderful place to hold a vet convention! I think most of the vet's clients could not afford to stay at that hotel. Posted by: Peter H | Nov 28, 07 11:54 PM

When I take my dog to the vet, he (the vet) gets down on all fours, strokes and pets her, looks into her eyes and says "Hi Xoli" in the goofiest, most tender voice you can imagine. He didn't charge me for her last examination for a skin lesion, and he's not the first vet to give me free service. When my last dog was very sick, and eventually dying, my former vet repeatedly lowered or dropped his fees or didn't charge for special-diet food, or sometimes medication because he knew I was struggling financially. I only knew this because the front staff would mention it, or it would just be reflected in the bill. The vet himself never mentioned it. He also called me at least once a week for months to see how my dog was doing. I don't know who's making what, and I would prefer to think I'm not overcharged for veterinary pharmaceuticals, but let's not confuse this issue with the dedication and care with which most veterinarians deliver service, and let's not binge on self-righteousness and overgeneralization. Vets are as varied as human beings in any practice/service/line of work, but remember, most go into veterinary study as hopeful young people who want to heal animals. Posted by: Marion Gauzer | Nov 28, 07 11:55 PM

I just saw the show on Veterinary Doctors and like many of the other people posting here I am disgusted by the complete lack of journalistic integrity with the piece. What offended me the most was that the piece was shamelessly one-sided and blatantly sought to convince the audience that all veterinarians are price-gouging. No doubt there are those that charge too much, *every* single industry has its share, but what about all the others who charge a fair price? While I can't recall the medication, one clinic only charged ~$6 for a medication that cost them ~$4. Did Marketplace focus on that? No, rather the reporter sought out the highest prices across the country and only focused on those. What was the average price of each medication? What were the average mark-ups? What is a reasonable mark-up when one takes into consideration that as a non-subsidized health facility, veterinary practices have higher overhead with equipment, supplies, etc.? A couple of phone calls and 15 minutes on a calculator would have provided that information - but then I guess that wouldn't have been nearly as sensational of a story. Posted by: Matt | Nov 29, 07 12:02 AM

I was quite shocked by tonight's program regarding veterinary prescription prices. I had expected CBC to present an unbiased and complete report, and was quite disturbed at how poorly the issue was covered. I have always trusted the CBC as an objective source of information - -I stand corrected. I am a veterinarian who practices in Edmonton. My income is nowhere near what my professional equivalent makes in human medicine, even though I studied for the same number of years, and accumulated a similar education debt-load. I, like most veterinarians, work to provide the best for my patients and their owners. I know of no veterinarian who looks forward to "putting a new addition on their house" when a new client walks through the door. Our hearts and minds are focused on providing the best service we can. Aside from being professionals who provide medical services to our patients, we are animal lovers too. We often find ourselves trying to make our service more affordable for our clients, because we care for their animal and want the best for him or her. But, of course, our bills need to be paid as well--75% of every dollar spent in the average Alberta veterinary clinic goes to cover the costs of running the facility. Why did the program not review what the average veterinarian's salary is and perhaps compare that to what other medical professionals make with similar credentials? Why was the microeconomics of running a veterinary clinic not investigated? You would think that such basic information would have been. The message being sent was that veterinarians simply pocket the dollar amount that is charged over and above the wholesale cost--what a ludicrous assumption! It is very sad that CBC allows such poor quality reporting. It is also very sad that the message sent was that veterinarians are not to be trusted, a perception that will very likely end up hurting the very pets that the program was supposedly trying to help. Shame on you. Posted by: Jody Bennett, DVM | Nov 29, 07 12:08 AM

Here in Vancouver we have a few low cost vets from the ATLAS chains, as seen on tonight's Marketplace (Dr. Buhlle)r. These vets charge low fees for procedures and meds. A neuter of a cat is $35. The BCVMA is trying to say these vets cannot speak English properly and trying to run them out of business. see the vets' website at: http://bcvetsforjustice.ca/ Posted by: poor in Vancouver | Nov 29, 07 12:18 AM

A journalist wants to make a point to discredit an entire dedicated profession, visits Banff (and the UK?) while paid with our taxes, interviews selected people, edits as needed (aka: journalistic "mark-up" as they can do what they want), and yes (drum roll) makes her point. Master Card should have sponsored the show, as this one is priceless. It is unmeasurable, but I suspect veterinary medicine is still one of the occasional professions where people have a "calling" and go through numerous years of school to do a difficult but rewarding job with creatures they love. Many others have stated the difference in overhead costs a veterinary clinic/hospital has, vs. a pharmacy (walls, shelves, drugs - that's it!). Furthermore, most veterinary clinics have an overall profit margin below 5% in the end, which is lower than pharmacies. Guess why pharmacists want to sell drugs? Yes, they make good money from it, better than "vets" actually. Quality care comes at a cost, and lower price does not mean better. Finally, though this is not a matter of comparison, I would like to know how the annual salary of a so-called journalist working for CBC compares to the national average salary of a small animal veterinarian (ie: roughly $55K) and to that of a physician... My fiancee, a small animal veterinarian who charges "excessive mark-ups on drugs" (it's average), earns $52K/yr working 40h weeks, and carries $240,000.00 dollars in student debts. Please factor that in next time you want to portray her profession as money grabbing. Posted by: Louis | Nov 29, 07 12:37 AM

The vets are only trying to protect their interests and their huge markups by calling the CBC marketplace piece unfair. They must not be allowed to gouge on pet lovers' sentiments towards the health of their pets. Can we not get the government to pass similar legislation here in Canada as in the U.K? Posted by: Kavish | Nov 29, 07 12:59 AM

Veterinarians are medical professionals who must be compensated for their knowledge and expertise. If they are not able to make a profit on selling medications, they will simply have to charge more for their consultations or charge a prescription writing fee. In the end, the "savings" your show touts will be minimal. It is actually quite hilarious how your portray veterinary professionals as greedy and rich people. A Veterinarian's salary is approximately $55,000 per year! (Medical Doctors make $150,000+) Veterinary nurses make approximately $22,000 a year (Registered nurses make $40,000+) People expect veterinarians to diagnose, treat, run diagnostics lab tests, take x-rays, perform surgery, do dentistry - the same work would take 15 people in human medicine. The same work would require you to travel to different sections of hospitals, entirely new buildings. The equipment veterinarians use is not subsidized or free! Human generic drugs are not equal to veterinary products! Human pharmacists do not know how to counsel pet owners on safe use or to answer pet owners questions if things go wrong. If they did, they could be charged with practicing veterinary medicine without a license. Human Doctors charge prescription fees. We just never see the bill. Pharmacies charge a dispensing fee. So should veterinarians. Veterinarians are good people. They sincerely want to help pets. It saddens me that this poorly researched, one-sided, smear job has slandered this noble profession. Posted by: William Fleury | Nov 29, 07 01:08 AM

The reporters and researchers on Marketplace should lose their jobs for airing such a poorly researched, unfounded, piece of sensationalistic trash. The inaccuracies, over-simplifications and blatant lies in this piece are far too numerous to catalogue. The amount of damage this story could do is horrendous to contemplate. The veterinary profession should be awarded a HUGE FINANCIAL SETTLEMENT for slander. We could then donate the money to animal welfare and research. At the very least, members of the staff responsible for this travesty should be fired and relegated to tabloid journalism. Posted by: William Fleury | Nov 29, 07 01:16 AM

To say I was glued to the television to watch the program tonight is an understatement. However, knowing how Marketplace behaves on occasion, I wasn't watching it to learn something; I watched it to see how far Marketplace would go in its defective journalism! I am not a veterinarian, but I have the utmost respect for 'My' clinic's veterinarians and how they operate. If I feel the need to question their judgment, I am privileged in being able to do so without repercussion. I rarely have to purchase medications from ‘My’ clinic, but rather leave with script in hand. When ‘we’ lose the connection with our human Doctors ‘we’ fly off in a huff and hunt down another Doctor to care for us. When we lose the connection with our animal Doctors, ‘we’ fly off the handle, treat this Professional Doctor like dirt and expect him or her to take it! Not one comment was made about the cost of equipment used for for day to day operations, nor anything about staffing costs, leasehold costs, medications, needles, cotton balls, antiseptic washes, tapes, gauzes, telephone, heat.. You get the general picture about the day to day costs to run a business. What about the required seminars to upgrade skills and learn new procedures? Do you think these are free? If you know anyone in the U.S. who has to pay for medical expenses, then you will understand better how this system works and why it costs so much to run a Veterinary clinic. As to the head of the BCVMA, if I were a Veterinarian in the Province of British Columbia, I would be ashamed of how my profession was represented by that man. He seemed to be free with his advice that if a person couldn’t afford the costs of care for an animal then euthanasia was the obvious choice. Perhaps he should be dealt a little of the ‘blue juice’ himself because he really does exhibit the ‘fear bite’ temperament! Posted by: Leslie Anne Davey | Nov 29, 07 01:18 AM

Veterinarians greedy, money-grubbing gougers? Veterinarians rich? Annual Salaries (REALITY CHECK) Doctor $140,000+ Dentist $130,000+ Pharmacist $80,000+ Nurse $50,000+ ***Veterinarian $50,000 ***Veterinary nurse $22,000 If veterinarians markup medications, it is so they can AFFORD TO STAY OPEN. Most veterinarians have a huge number of clients who refuse to pay for services rendered. This story was CRAZY. Posted by: Doug West | Nov 29, 07 01:24 AM

I find obscenity in the amounts of money we pay to keep doddering old poopsie or foo-foo alive. The one woman keeps 14 cats in various stages of decay and old age. She then has the nerve to whine about the cost of medication for this hobby of hers. I think of the number of educations of underprivileged children (human beings) this money could be used to pay for. Or the number of children (human beings) from Eastern Europe or Iraq with horrible diseases and disabilities whose cures or treatments could be paid for with just a portion of that 4 billion dollars. Soon we will see assisted living facilities and retirement homes for family pets along with wheelchairs and special animal crosswalks. It boggles the mind. My cat lived a normal life and at the end when blindness and incontinence set in I put her down and planted her out by the tomato plants. In some peoples minds that places me in the same rank as a serial killer or war criminal. Sheeeeesh! Posted by: Bob | Nov 29, 07 01:55 AM

Did anyone stop to think that the pharmacist is just looking to capitalize on the love of animals by carrying the veterinary medications? Each pharmacy chooses its own dispensing fee ranging from around $4.00 to well over $15.00. Animals are luxury items. They are living breathing creatures, and if you can't afford one don't get one. It is not the responsibility of the veterinarian to flip the bill of your sick pet because you don't have the money. We have long wait lists for surgeries but I don't go into a private surgical facility and demand knee surgery without paying for it, only to exclaim "Well don't you love people?" Of course we love animals but we also have our own families to support. The clinics Erica started at were all in Vancouver. Have you seen the cost of living in Vancouver? If you can afford to live there you should be able to afford to pay a higher rate for vet medicine, because I'm sure the veterinary Clinic is paying a high level of monthly rent. I would think this would account for the extreme price differences. A little clinic in the prairies has a much lower level of rent then one in a big city. Posted by: Anne | Nov 29, 07 02:23 AM

I am so happy to read all of the negative comments about your show tonight. As a "vet" I was insulted, infuriated and very disappointed with the CBC for this piece of one-sided sensationalism. I want to back up all of the people above who pointed out the holes in your story and also ask: when your animal crashes because you have been medicating him/her yourself with no/little veterinary guidance, will you pay then? If you are dissatisfied with your estimate from your veterinarian, then in addition to "price shopping" I would also strongly recommend that you find out why the price is higher, not why the price is lower. Lower prices can mean several things: location, number of staff, equipment on hand, square footage of clinic (rent), medications used, or lack thereof. We also would charge approx $700.00 to do a dental cleaning (dentals are the most common money complaint). What your pet gets for this is: premedication, intravenous line and fluids to support internal organs, injectable anesthetic, maintenance on an anesthetic machine (which was purchased and needs to be serviced regularly), pain management (local and injectable) to decrease how much gas is needed to keep your pet asleep (i.e. less risk to them), constant monitoring with a registered veterinary technician, machines that tell us pulse oximetry, blood pressure, temperature, medical knowledge that allows us to decide to extract or leave a tooth behind, dental intraoral xrays to identify the 25% of pathology that we don't see above the gumline, further pain management and possible antibiotics, not to mention the follow up rechecks and phone calls. If we as a human went to a human hospital for above, it would cost well over twice as much. As for being rich, I could have just as easily gone to medical school and be making much more money than I do now, but I wouldn't get to work with animals, which I love. So thanks CBC for the bad publicity and making our jobs of educating people that much more difficult. Posted by: Amy | Nov 29, 07 02:23 AM

I was rolling around on the floor laughing at what this Kurby guy had to say! WHAT A JOKER! AND HE IS PRESIDENT OF THE BCVMA!? No wonder this is such a big problem. Look who they have behind the wheel! Finally someone is shedding some light on this issue. After seeing this, it's hard to take what the BCVMA is saying about Dr. Bhullar and Atlas Animal Hospital seriously. It looks clean and modern, more then my own vet's clinic! It is obvious to me that they want to hurt his business because of his low prices and huge heart. They can't compete. Posted by: Holly Johnson | Nov 29, 07 02:45 AM

I really appreciate the information provided by this episode of Marketplace. It was very informative. I find it interesting that vets say that Canadians are not aware of the costs for their medications. I'm pretty sure that I pulled out my wallet last time I was in the pharmacy. I'm also pretty sure that someone would be yelling and screaming if the price for insulin were different between human pharmacies. This is the point of the episode. Some vets charge a lot more than others. There is no consistency. This is wrong. Another point is that vets are private businesses and are not regulated. The problem with this is that we have nowhere else to take our furry friends if they are sick. They are a monopoly. This is why the government in the UK brought regulation to bear on these private businesses. What Marketplace should have done is gone to France to see what rules apply to vets in that country. They are even more regulated. The representative for the Vet Association tells us that to remain free as people we have to let vets charge us whatever they like and maintain their monopoly? There is no free market in a monopoly. Some individuals have commented here that Vet practices are expensive operations. I would agree with that. There are other groups that have similar costs. Your average automobile repair shop has high overhead with the new technology required to fix a modern car. The prices were posted on the wall last time I visited my automobile repair shop. I also find it interesting that they suggest we don't know the costs of "subsidized" human healthcare. Most provinces post the costs of healthcare on their web sites last time I looked. Detailed information where you can even determine what your physician was paid in fees by the province. Posted by: Gordon McCague | Nov 29, 07 07:37 AM

Both my Father and Mother were Veterinarians (not vets- they are military members who have served in a conflict). Both are now deceased and you insult them with same brush (and the tar) you used for others in the industry. My Dad spent countless nights in his truck out visiting farms and helping farmers with their livestock. He loved animals MORE than anyone on this forum. My Mom,who also raised the 3 of us, worked 10 hours per day in her clinic helping pets. I assure you, there was NEVER any intent to rip any of you off. Neither had a company pension to fall back on, 1-year maternity leaves, dental, eyecare or medical plans. Be thankful that most of you have your employers paying for all of your needs. They lived in an old house and worked hard to feed the 3 of us and care for all of your pets.You should have interviewed some veterinarians and staff during an euthanasia. I bet you you would elicit a different response. Like in any profession (including journalism) there are losers, scumbags and such. I just went to my car dealership. I purchased a car here in Canada knowing I could get it for $6K cheaper in the US. That is my choice.The dealership charges $80/Hr for repairs!If you were to build my $26K Impala by buying the parts I would pay close to $130K! I choose to live here and do business with those of you who I feel are honest. Profit is ok. The average salary of a Veterinarian is not as high as 95% of professionals. I am a dentist and I know there is still a difference. My Mom and Dad and their patients (owners) paid countless dollars in sales tax/income tax/payroll tax over the years. You live in an area of Canada (BC) where it costs more to do business. The homes of the people you interviewed are much nicer than the one we lived in growing up in Eastern Ontario. One thing did impress me about your show: you and the others you interviewed love your pets. Let us celebrate that relationship and those who help maintain it. The pet owner is the hero. Veterinarians are pet owners too. Posted by: Joanna- Victoria BC | Nov 29, 07 07:41 AM

There are a number of web sites available where you can buy pet medications. I suggest people check them before they agree to a prescription from their vet. Or at least get the follow up dosage from the website. To Vets: Stop whining. You've been exposed. Start doing business properly. I won't go to a vet who does not post their prices up front now. Posted by: Gordon McCague | Nov 29, 07 07:42 AM

REALITY CHECK! Average cost of veterinary education/training: $70,000 to $100,000 (6-8 years). Average cost to start a veterinary hospital: $500,000 + (building, medical equipment, stock, staff salaries), Average veterinarian salary: $50,000 per year It takes on average 7-10 years for a young veterinarian to pay off his student debt and clear the startup loan for his/her practice! That is before we start making any real profit. Posted by: Doug West | Nov 29, 07 08:22 AM

Shame on you CBC. This is pure propaganda. Naively, I thought maybe there was one broadcast station in Canada whose view was purely objective; apparently not. It's too bad the show was broadcast to people with absolutely no idea of how anything works; people living under their blanket of ignorance and claiming to have had the wool pulled over their eyes by a business aimed to help. Posted by: Jennifer Smith | Nov 29, 07 08:33 AM

This wasn't a good report! Vets are not getting rich; they are trying to make a honest living! The cost for their education in today's dollars is over $100,000, plus lost income for 8 years in school. Pet owners need to understand the cost involved in having a pet. Pet insurance may be a way to go for some people. The system is user-pay like everything else in our life. Posted by: From Nova Scotia | Nov 29, 07 08:36 AM

I have known for a long time that vets were ripping us off. I have four pets: two dogs, two cats. I asked for a multiple pet discount and was told no. I believe they do tests that are unnecessary. My dog had a little lump on her leg. As soon as the vet checked it she was booked for surgery.It cost $300.00 for that operation. Turned out it was a sebaceous cyst that burst as soon as they got her on the operating table. I don't know if it could have been treated without surgery. Then while at the vet I told the vet I felt another lump on my dog. She stuck a needle into it and said it was likely just fatty cells and that we should just keep an eye on it. Why was one lump urgent and the other not? I have spent thousands of dollars spent in vet bills. I really never question what the vet says and never ask what it is going to cost me. I usually just go ahead because I love my pets. Vets aren't making money? Who are they trying to kid? They make a good living. You don't see very many old vets. They get to retire early. I could go on and on but I am glad that things are coming to light. I also know that they have equipment they have to pay for. But when they know someone loves their pet and then say "oh well if you can't pay euthanize it," then they are not the same as doctors are they? Doctors don't (usually don't) euthanize us if we can't pay. Posted by: D. Woods | Nov 29, 07 09:23 AM

Having read most of the responses to your program, I think a lot of the people who are angry at Marketplace are missing the point. I don't think the animal owning public begrudges their veterinarian a markup of say 100% on meds, but 400% - that's outrageous! 100% is a standard markup on many things. If you can get it a little cheaper, so much the better. Marketplace is trying to tell us that as a consumer you must practice due diligence. If you can't afford the meds., check around. I buy almost all my animals' meds at Walmart or through PedMeds. The veterinary profession is like any other - there are good and bad. Having worked at the Vet. Teaching Hosp. in Guelph for many years, I can tell you that most of them are honest, hardworking professionals who are in it because they are animal lovers, not for the big bucks. I recognize some of the names of those who posted angry critiques as veterinarians. To you I say, don't get your knickers in a twist! No one said ALL vets overcharge. If one grocery store sells bread for $5.00 a loaf and another sells same loaf for $2.25, where would you buy it? Caveat emptor. Posted by: Pet Lover | Nov 29, 07 10:00 AM

Very sorry vet people, adapt or die. The free market will make you obey. I have no problem with markup, but to intentionally leave out information to customers to increase income, and then pressure companies to boycott pharmacies that want to sell meds... please! That's slimy and has nothing to do with free market. If you can't make money doing your job, then selling snake oil isn't an option either. Thankfully I have an indoor cat, and I'm not taken to the cleaners with unneeded shots every year, for diseases they seem to never get anyways. One day and night in that church street hospital cost as much as a HUMAN semi private room! This was for hydration and accommodation. As for one of the lowest paid professions, don't throw that lie around. Like any job it's not great at first, but everyone knows (like dentistry) once you get your own location, CHA CHING, it's a never ending money train. And you know what, that again is fine. BUT, the lobbying to control the drugs yourselves, the leaving out of information, it's all slimy and makes me want to rethink even getting another pet when my current one passes. I'm can't enjoy a pet worried that every time they hack something up, it's going to cost me two mortgage payments! Which in the past it has. How about the next time your child is sick, I jack up the price of medication that isn't covered? Hey why not? I don't care about you and your loved ones, so why not charge 10,000 dollars for the antibiotic that will save your child's life? Or perhaps if there weres a food shortage, I should just watch you and your loved ones die because you can't afford the food? Posted by: Robert | Nov 29, 07 10:10 AM

Andreas Brieger, please. I paid 2k for a 3 night stay and operation. I found out later from another vet that I was taken to the cleaners. What happens is that some scumbag clinics use fear to get you to use them right away, making it sound like the animal is about to die. Of course this is usually a lie. So they do this to stop you from shopping around. Then 400% markup on meds? How about I do that to food or human medicine and make you pay it? How would you feel if your child was refused treatment because you were poor? So you are coerced using your emotions to use them. This is not people who care for animals, but people who care for themselves first and foremost. And not just to make money as well all should, but to add some delicious gravy to their already padded wallets. Posted by: Robert | Nov 29, 07 10:14 AM

I have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on my education and building my practice. I work 60+ hrs a week, and have worked more than that. I spend thousands of dollars every year on continuing education. The costs of maintaining an inventory for my patients is astronomical. I am compassionate and caring. I take extra time with my clients, and go above anything my physician has ever done for me. My patients receive better care than most human patients could hope for. My staff is highly-trained and educated. They put the needs of the patients and clients above all else at all times. They work long hours, too, and deserve to be well-paid for what they do. But they are not, certainly when compared their human health equivalents. Yet because our patients are cute and cuddly, we are to be denied the right to earn a living from our profession? How come veterinary medicine is still the lowest paid profession? Because we DO care. Because we do what we do because we love our patients and our clients. No one in their right mind would do what we do for the money we make. So to be attacked in such a one-sided, inaccurate, and slanderous way as a money-grubbing villain is an insult to me as a veterinarian, and is extremely hurtful to me as a person. Perhaps an expose on the unscrupulous reporting skills of CBC journalists might be more appropriate. Posted by: Chris | Nov 29, 07 10:14 AM

I am quite happy with my veterinarian here in Toronto, as well as the emergency clinic here where my dog is, even as we speak, receiving his latest dose of chemotherapy. He has been on Metacam for years for his hips, and my vet has been willing to provide me with a prescription for this that I can fill at a local pet pharmacy, which saves me about $20 a dose. As he has been on this for years, my savings have been significant. So I may be lucky, but I was surprised to see the variance in pricing between offices. If we're going to go on the informed buyer model, then we should have access to what these products cost, and we should be able to make an informed decision about who we want to give our business as a result. 300 or 400% markups are ridiculous no matter what part of a city one is in, or what costs are involved in running a clinic. Adjust vet fees accordingly if that's the case. I can appreciate the fact that the only source for funding a clinic is the revenue one gets from clients, and that we as clients don't have the luxury of provincially funded medicare for our pets. Just be open and fair with us about the costs. The conference at Banff was particularly disturbing for two reasons, and I would hope not representative of what veterinary medicine is all about. Reason 1 = that a medical practitioner would actually look at this as an opportunity to relieve us of cash in this way, and 2 = that the room was full. That picture says more than any attempt at justification of costs. Finally, if I were on the board of the BC association I would consider turfing the representative interviewed. His snarky "we can do what we want to make money" attitude wouldn't be I would want to have said about me if he were representing my profession as a caring one. Posted by: Chris Hutcheson | Nov 29, 07 10:15 AM

I enjoyed the show; I watch every week. I realize that all businesses have to have a mark-up to pay for staff wages, lease of building, etc. as I am a former business owner. However, I agree that the mark-up seems outrageous. I think it brings the point home that we have to be educated consumers. From now on I will be asking our vet to give us a prescription. Posted by: Margaret | Nov 29, 07 10:25 AM

I loved the show last night. Truly an eye-opener that the industry isn't regulated with pricing. Everyone understands making a profit and mark-ups/dispensing fees are standard but to see that some vets will charge between 200 and 450% mark-up is ridiculous. I would love to see buying pet medications become commonplace in regular pharmacies, or a standard price list at the front of the vet's office. Shame on the people who didn't understand the message of the show: that it was more about the public being unaware of the industry not being regulated and a vast fluctuation in pricing. It had nothing to do with vets not being allowed to make a living. Posted by: Liz | Nov 29, 07 10:36 AM

I think as Canadians we don't see what the costs are for our medical health. Are we thinking we visit our doctors for $10.00 a visit? I recently took my cat to our local vet - she was very good and did a complete exam. The cat is 17; he has an infected tooth and the infection has traveled through his body, so he will not be around long. I was told there were two options: surgery or antibiotics. After the results of the tests came back, she said surgery was too risky for him, and that the antibiotics would give him some relief, and give us one last Christmas with him. She could have told me surgery was the way to go and charged me a lot of money and he likely would have never made it through the surgery. But she didn't. I think this industry probably has a few bad apples, but the majority are caring, and don't have OHIP to bill, so we actually see the costs! Posted by: Kerri | Nov 29, 07 10:52 AM

That was the most ridiculous non-story I have ever seen. Name me one business that is not functioning to turn a profit, and it's nobody's business what your profit margin is. Vets plow through 8 years of schooling to what? Break even financially each day of their working lives? Let's not forget that owning a pet is a choice and you have to be prepared to pay for that choice. When you walk into Starbucks, do you really think it costs them over $4 to produce that small latte for you ? What about Walmart, a shoe store, or your local steakhouse - do you really think there is a tiny 10 cent mark-up on everything? I am disgusted by what turned out to be the worst journalistic effort I have seen in a long time on the CBC. Posted by: Catherine Casey | Nov 29, 07 10:53 AM

In my book Marketplace failed again. They blamed the veterinarian for their high markup but never once mentioned the fact that there is Pet Insurance to cover some if not all the costs of the medication. I have had a dog with cancer for a short time and with the Pet Insurance most of my costs were covered. The veterinarians should not be blamed for their markup. A Pharmacist doesn't give you a complete physical before they hand over the medication. A veterinarian has to be both Pharmacist and Doctor. They should be allowed to charge for the medication as they see fit. A piece of advice if you are thinking about a particular dog or cat: Go to a veterinarian before getting the animal you have in mind. They can discuss the genetic issues that may arise as the pet gets older and you can financially prepare for it. As far as Pet Insurance is concerned discuss it with the veterinarian and find out what is covered and not covered. The cute animal in the pet store is a financial responsibility. Prepare for it. Posted by: Lloyd Speyer | Nov 29, 07 11:07 AM

Nestle bottled water costs 10 cents to make. How much do you pay for that in a corner store? Posted by: Jason- Nanimo | Nov 29, 07 11:16 AM

I look forward to the sweeping apology that CBC will have to issue to the veterinarians of North America. I also hope that all the animals that become sick and die have owners that will sue CBC for liability and promoting poor health care. Do you really believe that you do not pay a mark up for everything you buy for yourself? Go ahead give the business to pharmacists - they are making $100,000 a year right out of school while I as a starting vet will be lucky to get $65,000. Oh and along with dispensing drugs I also do surgery, diagnostics etc etc. But it's OK I don't really like pets and I'm just in it for the money. No, wait. Then I'd be a human doctor. Posted by: Tasha | Nov 29, 07 11:18 AM

To the Doctors of Veterinary Medicine here: If you have a good and fair relationship with your patients and fair pricing, what is your problem? I expect my vet to make a good living and that can reflect in her fees for appointments and procedures. I don't even mind paying a nominal dispensing fee of say 10 bucks. 20-30 bucks more a month is gouging over 200 bucks a year. I pay for appointments during which meds are decided upon. Do I have to pay monthly for those minutes too? Er... no. So people ask more questions in terms of medication costs? If you have the answers and are fair, chill out. Don't expect a consumer show that is simply telling people to shop around to do your public relations for you. Posted by: Sal | Nov 29, 07 11:48 AM

A reply to the un-educated public: Unfortunately "what happened to those little kids that went to vet school because they love animals?" They started paying back their $100,000 student loans on salaries of approximately $60,000/year! Life is life and business is business. I would love to treat Fido and Frisky for cost, but I would also love to pay my bills and feed myself. The grocery stores do not give free food to people just because they're hungry now, do they? As for the owner of the little kitten that was dewormed with a grocery store product: I have seen little kittens die from overdoses of these products. Do not compare apples to oranges. The mark-up you are paying for is for my knowledge, to know what is safe, effective and proper for your pet. Does the cashier at Walmart know that? And to the reporter on marketplace: you can buy your insulin at the drug store, but make sure you don't use a human syringe to deliver it, or Miss Kitty may well enter a hypoglycemic state. Trust me, it will cost a lot more to fix that than the $10 you saved! Posted by: Dr. Reality, DVM | Nov 29, 07 11:50 AM

After watching the segment last night I feel compelled to write. I have been a dedicated and loyal CBC viewer for many years and have chosen to view many of the programs because of good and informed journalism. Yesterday's program was extremely disappointing. I am not a veterinarian, I am a consumer and as such it is MY responsibility to be informed. It seems rather ludicrous to come down on the whole profession just because they aren't telling you that you can go elsewhere for the "drugs". Maybe it's because they're busy saving lives. It's a known fact that if you want exceptional medical care you need four legs and a tail. Shame on you Ms. Johnson for missing the mark on this one. I look forward to watching the other side. There are so many other things consumers would like to know. Don't stoop so low! Posted by: connie | Nov 29, 07 11:51 AM

Thank you very much for choosing this topic. My cat died last year of cancer and had I known I would've asked for prescription instead. I think this option should be always offered to pets owners (I will be smarter when I decide to own another pet). One of the commentators gives the example of Future Shop and the headphones. We are talking about the live of our pets which are as important as human lives for a lot of pet owners. I really like the system they have in the UK. Unfortunately it doesn't look like anything will change in Canada any time soon. (loved the show- all your shows are very interesting.) Posted by: Grace | Nov 29, 07 11:53 AM

I watched your show and was saddened by the one sided commentary. The focus seemed to be on how "vets" rip you off. I felt very sorry for the geriatric cat used in the visits to hospitals. You put a cat under severe stress - one who is older and has diabetes and a thyroid condition. You laughed and jumped back as the cat became uncooperative in one scene - that is the response of one very upset/stressed cat, one who probably wanted to be at home. The stress this animal was subjected to under the cover of "investigative journalism" was cruel. The car rides, the repeat exams... I am certain this impacted his medical conditions. I watched this and shook my head as the message from the show is that vets don't care about your pet, just about money. Yet you are carting around an old medically challenged cat. A happy social dog would have enjoyed all the attention; the cat you used was subjected to unnecessary stress. Understand there are pharmaceutical laws and medical standards to which we must comply. We can't just keep giving out medications without seeing the pet. Certain medications, like steroids, can have serious side effects and a veterinarian must be diligent in monitoring the patient. My daughter is hypothyroidic. I cannot get refills unless she is seen by a physician at intervals of 6 months to have blood work and overall health assessed. That is due care by a professional. Why is that how much we care is compared to how much we charge? Why is the perception that the vet who charges less must care more? That the caring vet absorbs costs? This story was one sided and presented all vets [except a for select few] as some sort of money grubbing bunch. Posted by: Animal Health Technologist | Nov 29, 07 12:08 PM

I agree with most of your viewers' replies that vets are caring people and do what they feel is best for your pet. What I didn't read was comments on how the veterinarians are lured, wined, dined and rewarded by pharma companies. I wonder how much information is given to our future pet doctors on how to treat ailments with less medicine and more common sense. Honestly, an 'anti obesity' pill? The internet has scads of information on how to treat pets homeopathically. Nowadays it seems that the more often you go to the vet, then the more often you have to go to the vet. Posted by: Anne-Marie in Qualicum Beach | Nov 29, 07 12:11 PM

When one of my dogs was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, my Veterinarian gave me a prescription to be filled elsewhere. I did not ask, and it would not have occurred to me to ask. Not only that, he has always given refills for a large number of pills so I can save on dispensing charges, also HIS recommendation. Not all Veterinarians are out there to maximize their profits on medications. Posted by: Lynn | Nov 29, 07 12:31 PM

I watched the show last night mainly because I am a Veterinary Technician (basically a nurse for animals). I personally used to think vets were all about money and definitely made lots. But once in practice I realized that my perception of the profession was off. The practice I work for is a great place and we offer written prescriptions to clients if they'd like, and we do let them know that you can get some drugs at the regular pharmacy for cheaper. We also do have a script writing fee. Then again your regular family doctor has a fee like this too but you just don't see it. I understand that some people think dispensing fees are a little out of hand, but they have the same fees at the regular pharmacy. As far as the conference, it seemed a little one sided. Not all vets are out for the money (I have worked for both money hungry vets and ones that just care for the animals' needs not their own). The conferences I have been to with my vets have been about education. No fancy place with expensive drinks and hotel rooms. Just a regular convention centre where we go to learn about new meds and how to better care for the patient. Not once did the show take into consideration the staffing costs, the other cost of drugs not necessarily for prescription but general use. Maybe if the show did an overveiw of the necessary costs to run a clinic and then compared the income to the amount spent by the vets it would give a better view as to how much cash the vet is "lining" their pocket with. And if anything, look at the money the other staff is making and the kind of formal education they have. As a Technician I know most of us are not making much and find that our line of work comes with many risks yet we aren't compensated for it. Posted by: MEL | Nov 29, 07 12:35 PM

Welcome to a private health care system! I was disappointed that your report did not take the opportunity to point out that is exactly where Canada's health care system could end up. At least when it comes to your pets health you can always choose to have your pet humanely put down, rather than watch them slowly die a painful death because you can't afford the treatment. Posted by: Withheld | Nov 29, 07 12:57 PM

This video is completely one sided and biased. It's fortunate in Canada that our medicare is free. However, this means no Canadian can truly appreciate the cost of medicine or medical care if we become sick. Posted by: Brian | Nov 29, 07 01:05 PM

I have no problem paying a reasonable mark-up on drug costs. Veterinarian clinics have to make a profit, that's the bottom line. And equipment, new technology, etc. *is* expensive. However, I do have a problem with price-gouging in any area. My former vet clinic moved its premises a few years ago to a lovely, brand new, high-end building. Very well appointed waiting room and so on. Of course, fees rose significantly as a result, given that they had a larger overhead to cover. That's fine for those who have a higher income, but I do not and I prefer to pay for my animal companions' care, not for a snazzy waiting room. Perhaps some would say that I shouldn't have two cats, since I am a single-income person who struggles financially (like many), but my kitties were adopted from local shelters, thus saving their lives -- and mine, and I put their needs first in terms of premium quality grain-free food and the best care I can manage. There *are* great vets out there who put the welfare of the animals first, but just as in any other field, there are those whose goal is to "milk" the consumer. So it comes down to doing your own research and making informed decisions. Posted by: Kim | Nov 29, 07 01:06 PM

It all comes down to quality of veterinary care if you ask me. You need find a Veterinarian that you trust. This may take some time and investigation, but as you are all saying, these are not just animals, they are family. Ask your friends with pets who they recommend. Ask if they are happy. Go in, check it out. Is the staff friendly and knowledgeable? Do they have certified technical staff? is the place clean? Are they busy? Take your pet in for his/her yearly exam and ask the vet questions. Are they friendly and approachable or do they intimidate you and try to push un-needed services or medication? If so, keep looking. The worst time to have to worry about these things is when you pet is seriously ill. All of the price shopping "I knew the vet was ripping me off" people that are commenting will never be convinced otherwise anyway. The sad part is that the average person out there now has a unfairly tainted view of the Veterinary profession as a whole. Also price shoppers out there, be sure you are getting the same services at these cut rate prices. Is Fluffy's life or death Dependant on a part time high school student with no training? Or on a Registered Animal Health Technologist? They cost more, but I know who I would rather have monitoring my anesthetic! Posted by: Janie | Nov 29, 07 01:21 PM

I feel it is a disgrace that the journalist who presented this show subjected her senior, diabetic, hyperthyroidal cat to repeated car trips and repeated exams at 5 different places, to 'research' her program. Was that in the cat's best interests, was that unnecessary stress, disruption in routine, and potential water deprivation beneficial or detrimental to her health? Perhaps the journalist doesn't understand the effects of stress on a diabetic, hyperthyroid cat. Perhaps she should have asked her vet. Posted by: Jessica | Nov 29, 07 01:21 PM

I am a veterinarian and felt that your "investigative reporting" on this topic was inaccurate and naive. The free market economy is all about charging for goods and services. Prices of drugs reflect the cost of running a veterinary practice--space, staff, veterinarians, etc. Despite the fact that you feel we are gouging our customers, which is insulting, we continue to be the lowest paid profession by HUGE margins. In fact, when I worked full time I made less than my father, who is a high school teacher. And full time for us means at least 60 hours a week because of on-call at any time of night or weekend. The cost of a hip replacement in dogs is around $2500. The human procedure is 10 to 20 times the price! Same equipment, same drugs, same amount of time. The comment about us making $66,000 salary being a "good salary" is ridiculous!!! We have gone to university for 8 years (spending over $100,000 plus lost wages), and when compared to other professions we make less than half of the next lowest profession but work more hours! My uncle is a doctor and makes $330,000 a year, my brother in law is a new doctor fresh out of school and his starting wage was $128,000 -- so are we overpaid? I think not. I wonder how much Erica the investigative reporter makes? Also not mentioned in this program is how much veterinarians give from their own pocket to abandoned, sick animals so that they can be adopted out. I am a vet who will recommend going to the pharmacy when the client can get a better price on CERTAIN drugs. The drugs shown on this program (example Metacam and novo-meloxicam) I would NOT prescribe because of the dangers associated with that particular drug. Drugs that are made for dogs/cats are specific for dogs/cats, and some human drug formulations are dangerous even though their active ingredient is the same. Overall a very poor job done on this report. Posted by: Tiffany | Nov 29, 07 01:21 PM

A veterinarian can write a prescription for a medication provided 1)there is doctor/client relationship, [the pet has seen the veterinarian]. 2) the formulation is suitable for that species. You can phone any veterinary clinic and you can ask for the charge for a specific medication. You can phone pharmacies in your area and do the same. Provide the name and amount required. Certain drugs require limited refills because they are controlled by government regulations, and require triplicate prescription forms. This applies to some seizure medications and pain control medications. Medication for treating parasites such as worms and fleas have side effects and should be avoided under particular conditions (pediatric patients, geriatric, pregnant, on other medications, underlying disease, in combination with other medications etc...staff at pet stores do not have the expertise. Each year we treat overdoses and adverse effects from pet store medications - especially flea collars. Medications were either given inappropriately or to the wrong species [a medication intended for dogs was used on cats for example]. Staff at a veterinary clinic can counsel owners as to the appropriate product because we are aware of species specific and age related complications. After a consult and instruction about giving the medication, discussion of side effects, and any bloodwork that may be required to properly diagnose a condition - you can ask your veterinarian for a prescription if you feel you are being overcharged. Posted by: Animal Health Technologist | Nov 29, 07 01:25 PM

We charge a 100% markup on our small animal medications. This allows us to provide a pleasant veterinary clinic in a small community with knowledgeable trained staff and quality veterinary care. It helps to subsidize providing a veterinarian on call after hours, as we do not have access to an emergency clinic as in the city. We do not have the volume of procedures in order to justify the expensive veterinary equipment and instruments we are required to have to provide a quality service. Our clients must choose to support us and perhaps pay a few extra dollars for their prescription, or pay more for services provided, in order to keep our business viable. It is unfortunate that veterinary clinics must be run as a business, but as of yet, society is not willing to pay for medical services for animals, and this remains the owner's responsibility. Veterinarians provide euthanasia not because they are callous moneygrubbers, but as a humane option when life saving procedures are too costly. Posted by: Anita | Nov 29, 07 01:45 PM

This is a response to Linda the nurse who feels that a urinalysis consists of only a test strip dipped in urine. While this may be the standard in human medicine, in veterinary medicine, a complete urinalysis consists of : a test strip, refractometer test for specific gravity, centrifugation and staining and microscopic analysis. In many cases is also involves standing beside Fido in subzero weather waiting for him to decide to water the nearest tree. Posted by: another veterinarian | Nov 29, 07 01:47 PM

Regarding the 'worming' medication purchased from the pet store vs. the expensive 2 pills from the vet: This is another example of the misinformed consumer. Many animals become severely ill due to advanced parasitism because people were misled by pet stores, breeders, etc. that their pet is "free of parasites" having received some off-the-shelf agent. The pills you purchased were likely Drontal. This is a prescription drug not licensed for sale in pet stores. There is NO equivalent product in pet stores. Off-the-shelf dewormers are primarly vermicides intended to control 'worms' such as roundworm. None of those products control or kill ALL parasites. Pet stores are not licensed to sell drugs, just pesticides. There are many cases of toxicity from various pesticides marketed at petstores. Your kitten likely had tapeworm segments seen and required this medication. I hope that you had a fecal exam done as well. Drontal IS expensive, period. It costs a fortune for vets to keep it in stock but it is also the only product effective for certain parasites. There is a perception issue here as well. Would you be happier paying $20.00 for 30 pills to accomplish the same effect?? Although it is an expensive drug, I think it's great to only have to give two doses to a cat! Along with that prescription, you had an accurate diagnosis of your pet's parasites, the knowledge and professional credentials to prescribe accordingly, and a medical doctor or veterinary nurse to explain to you the zoonotic risk and the risk to your pet as well as prevention of further infection. Also, the manufacturer of Drontal puts money into veterinary research and zoonotic disease. You should ask your vet questions if you're concerned. Having a good relationship with your veterinarian is crucial to your pet's well-being (and yours too!) as miscommunication is harmful. I encourage you to call your veterinarian and ask about the medication. Posted by: Jennifer Bilous | Nov 29, 07 01:57 PM

Why is it that people think the CBC is no longer relevant in the modern media world? Well here is our answer. They hire reporters like Erica Johnson that conduct ridiculous "investigations" like this because she's upset that her cat is sick and she has to pay for it. How this report was approved to be aired is an even better question. The report is entirely biased and incomplete. Who hires these reporters? The government pays for human medical care in Canada -- and lucky for Erica here -- the CBC is also subsidized by the government. Apparently they don't care too much about the quality of their reports. The average Veterinarian is paid around $60-70,000 per year. And went to school for 8 years after high school. I wonder what this reporter gets paid. She probably wouldn't tell you. She needs to go back to school herself to learn how to do her job fairly. And quit wasting our money. It is incredible that our tax money was likely used to pay for this report. For her "weeks or months" of research... Who is really getting ripped off here? Posted by: Doug | Nov 29, 07 02:09 PM

God bless you, Marketplace, for bringing this to light and informing everyday people of their rights. Your program last night concerning the high fees charged by vets was a real eyeopener. I never knew that I could have asked for a prescription and have it filled at a pharmacy at a much lower cost. When I think back to the enormous amount of money I paid out over the past few years in meds for insulin, antibiotics, eye drops, etc. for my dog and cat, it just makes me sick. If these vets didn't overcharge clients so much perhaps more animals lives would be saved. Not only that, but more people would be willing to take in more animals which in turn solves the problem of too many pets and not enough homes. So, the question now is, who do we (Canadians) write to in government to perhaps get some action like they did in the UK? Posted by: Carol | Nov 29, 07 02:17 PM

Your program always manages to expose the dark side of our ‘ideal’ society and let everybody to have a chance to become a better consumer. After reading all criticism on this message board, I will say, “Keep up the good work Erica.” Posted by: Mike | Nov 29, 07 02:41 PM

Thank you CBC for your program about vets and the obvious costs that pet owners have had to deal with recently. We're supposed to feel sorry for these medical professionals who are billing us to the wall. I don't. What I do know is that I have to pay large bills in order to keep my dog alive and it has put our family into a serious financial situation. For us this is not a recoverable situation. In addition, it seems like every time we come in they want us to 'cough up' more money for one of our animals. Yes, I am aware that vets have have had to go to medical school for a long time and yes I know that it costs a lot to run these animal hospitals. Gee, I guess I must have chosen the wrong profession as I seem to have spent a great deal of time at school as well but get paid no where near as much as a vet. You should try feeding three children, paying a mortgage and surviving on a minimum wage job!! But there has to be some point where there has to be fair market value and $900.00 for a day and half service for my pet is too much. I should not have go get a second mortgage to look after this animal. I did not choose this pet, I was forced to give it a home. Unfortunately, pet business has become very big business, corporate business. I do appreciate my vet and the hospital's care that they have given to my pet but I do have concerns that I've outlined above. So I'm sorry if you 'professionals' out there are 'offended' but I as a very ordinary consumer am offended as well. I'm offended because I don't get paid the dollars you get paid and you seem to think that we can just flash our magical wands and hundreds of dollars just pop out of the air to make you happy. Thanks to David's comments mentioned above. He has said it much better than I could ever have done. Posted by: dgwg | Nov 29, 07 02:58 PM

The CBC has reached an all time low. This piece has such biased reporting it disgusts me and makes me ashamed of the CBC. I am just wondering if the "reporter" thought to ask what the doctors of veterinary medicine paid to attend the conference featured? I am just wondering if she thought to compare the salaries of other professions with similar education? I am just wondering how she expects veterinary clinics to pay their overhead and stay open without any mark-ups. I could go on and on, but let's just say that the CBC is now no better than a supermarket tabloid. Posted by: Paula | Nov 29, 07 03:10 PM

First of all, I love your program. It usually provides revealing investigative information to the Canadian consumer. I just failed to see the story in this case. Veterinarians make a profit. So what! Everyone in business marks up their products in order to make a profit. Ever go to a clothing store? The average t-shirt cost a few dollars to make, yet we get charged $30 or $40. Have you ever gone to an auto-body repair shop? The price at one will vary greatly from that at another. Before I buy anything or obtain a service I shop around. The problem here is that many pet owners actually see their animals as humans. Therefore, they expect things like healthcare to be regulated like healthcare for humans. The fact is that pet owners are getting carried away. Most do not control their animals while out on walks, taking up the whole sidewalk. Many also feel it is their right to monopolize public parks with their un-leashed pets. What’s next? Publicly funded healthcare for dogs? When I was young, people got pets to augment their family. These days, most seem to get them to replace or supplement a family. These people scare me in that some see pets above humans. Posted by: Mike Whelan | Nov 29, 07 03:24 PM

Your recent show on the high cost of veterinary drugs generated outrage aplenty in me since it coincided with a media release (Nov 27) by Oxfam International deploring the lack of affordable drugs for devastating human diseases. HIV/AIDS: 3 million annual deaths. TB: 2 million annual deaths. Malaria: 1 million annual deaths. (Note all figures are conveniently rounded off to the nearest MILLION!) With 85% of the world's population priced out of the drug market, I cannot feel much sympathy for Erica Johnson's cat. Posted by: David Williams | Nov 29, 07 03:46 PM

I have watched Marketplace for years and years and have always thought they were being objective with their presentations. This narrowly focused, biased piece of so called journalism gives me pause to consider all the other shows that I have watched. I have permanently tuned out. Posted by: B McLeod | Nov 29, 07 04:23 PM

I find it strange how the program focused on the mark-up on drugs. Sure, when people get go to the doctor, the only expense they have is for medication; at the vet's office, they pay for everything. There are a lot of variations in fees for everything at vet clinics too, and they set the fees and markups for everything. It's kind of like doing a show on the differences in cost for x-rays or physical exams. When I got my cat spayed, I checked out a couple of places, and the one I chose wasn't the cheapest (by far). I chose it because I liked the clinic and the staff, and they are able to offer a very high quality of medicine, pretty much the same caliber as human medicine. While this works for me, it doesn't work for everyone. Maybe you want a clinic that is cheaper, that doesn't have a lot of fancy tools, but the point is that you have a choice. Go around and look at different clinics, and choose based on the whole picture. You might only want to spend $200 to get an eyelid lump removed, so find that clinic. But keep in mind that another clinic, which would charge $1000 and do the extra tests, might be just what someone else is looking for. One last thing, in general I really don't get the impression that vets are in it for the money. No, they're not living under the poverty line (they are doctors) but they're really not in it for the money. Posted by: Meghan | Nov 29, 07 04:33 PM

Your segment on the cost of pet medications presented a very one-sided and distorted perspective. It was certainly not the type of journalism that I have come to expect from the CBC. As a veterinarian and clinic owner I am well aware of the high cost of running my practice. Nowhere in your program did you discuss the rationale behind marking up the cost of drugs. As many of my colleagues have already stated, you failed to take into account the cost of running an entire hospital, not just a pharmacy. The cost of a medication also includes a level of service and expertise in the veterinary profession that you will not get at Walmart. Human health care is expensive. Why would you presume that veterinary health care should be any different? Perhaps your next program will investigate the annual cost to our health care system of treating a human diabetic with a thyroid condition. The results might surprise you. Posted by: Dr. Margaret Baar | Nov 29, 07 04:40 PM

Erica Johnson's report, on the variance of drug costs, should not come as a big shock. Let us reverse this and find out if a 30 day supply of drugs, costing 300 dollars, which could be used by some men with prostate cancer, can be bought at a Vet clinic for 10 cents a cap by farmers to control fungal infection in sheep. Or let's go to Mexcio or Cuba and buy some of our prescription only drugs over the counter. They all come from the same manufacturers. Posted by: JE Buchanan | Nov 29, 07 04:51 PM

How hypocritical that the CBC would criticize the price fixing and gouging of consumers by veterinarians when I have absolutely no choice about the huge number of my tax dollars that go into funding the CBC and its Ontariocentric broadcasts. I can shop around for vets, I can opt to treat or not treat, sadly, I am stuck with the CBC. Posted by: Elizabeth | Nov 29, 07 05:03 PM

This depiction of veterinarians is outrageous. Veterinarians are not out there to rob clients blind. You were not creating an accurate picture considering you only included tiny fragments that would support your bottom line for example only including selective excerpts out of that Can West veterinary conference to make veterinarians look like they are scheming to take your money. That is ridiculous, veterinarians have bills to pay too. They need to make money too believe it or not, animals need medical care and they provide it, and you have to pay for it. What is the mystery? When you go get your car fixed do they do it for free? The only reason people are so "outraged" over veterinary costs is because in Canada we have no CLUE over what our physicians are charging us. If we had to pay for medical care for ourselves we wouldn't be attacking veterinarians as if they were criminals. I was extremely disturbed by this piece and by the looks of it so were a lot of people. I hope people don't take this piece of trash too seriously because you are putting veterinarians in a very bad light. They are caring loving people that actually care about the well being of their patients, which is not always true for physicians that treat us. Posted by: Vet student | Nov 29, 07 05:09 PM

One point that has not been mentioned is that Veterinarians have the unique ability to prescribe drugs in an off license manner which is what we do every time we write a prescription to a human pharmacy. This is not a right, it is a privilege that we are given by federal and provincial governments so that we can treat animals for diseases when there are no animal licensed pharmaceuticals. Part of that understanding is that where ever possible we will use veterinary licensed product. Every time veterinarians prescribe meloxicam instead of Metacam they are abusing that privilege and put at risk the government revoking it. We sell veterinary products when ever possible as it provides the best results and with the smallest risk of side effects and does not abuse the privilege we have been given. Furthermore it helps to support an industry that puts millions of dollars into veterinary research every year. The reason that we can provide the level of medical care to our patients that we do is because of major contributions from these companies. I am a Veterinarian and it is because I do care about animals and my clients that I will continue to use these products and not support pharmacies that have given absolutely no money to help improve the quality of pets lives and care only about the money. As for mark-ups, I have never heard of any Veterinarian marking up drug costs by more then 100% and in our case our mark-up for Metacam is less then 60%. These mark-ups are consistent with industry standards for small business and are done on the recommendations of business advisors not Veterinarians. Posted by: philip | Nov 29, 07 05:20 PM

Now, you don't think that there is any connection between this story and say, the BC Veterinarians For Justice do you? Posted by: Responsible pet owner | Nov 29, 07 05:25 PM

Dear "David"... Yes, you may argue that $66,000 is a decent salary in Toronto, when so many people are living in poverty. But, how many of those people have completed a MINIMUM of 7 years post-graduate education (and in most cases, far more years than that) and have incurred significant student debt to do so? Do you not agree that people should receive an income in proportion to their intellectual abilities and dedication to suffer through years of challenging studies? Should Wal-Mart staff also make $66,000 a year? Also, please remember that it is just as difficult (indeed moreso in certain provinces and states) to gain admission to veterinary school as it is to medical and dentistry schools. A number of my classmates applied and were accepted into vet med, dentistry and medicine -- but, they decided to choose the profession that gets paid the least and works the worst hours for the smallest amount of respect. WHY? Because we love animals! Posted by: sarah | Nov 29, 07 05:30 PM

Prior to being a member of the veterinary field I too was misled into thinking that veterinarians were in it for the money. Only after working in the field did I understand, just like any area of expertise, you need to live it to know the truth. We can sit back and bash what we don't understand but that's complete IGNORANCE. We could also disgrace our own profession and colleagues by belittling them on national television, because we are angry for reasons unrelated to the topic at hand (Dr.Bhullar)! If you only knew the free time, surgeries and medications etc. that were given to clients in need. The elderly and handicapped pet owners who were given a chance with no questions asked, just the care of their pet in mind! If you have had a bad experience at a clinic you shouldn't put all DVM's into that same category. This report not only gave clients a free ticket to overdose their pets but told good, hard, honesty working people that they are money hungry cheapskates! Posted by: Lynne Smith | Nov 29, 07 05:35 PM

I was prompted by this information and conducted a little research of my own, here in Edmonton. My cat has chronic kidney disease and my vet bills are in excess of $200.00 a month. Local pharmacies do not carry the supplies I need. And the medicine; Human Erethropoiten (Eprex) costs more than what I can get from the Vet. So then I decided to cross check with various Veterinarians on their prices. Well, things got a bit testy - after being put on hold; I was then told, in a curt voice, that they would lose their license if they told me the price of the supplies and medicines I needed!! Now that sounds fishy. For the sake of my beloved pet I will continue to pay but I am angry and the esteem I once felt for Vets has diminished. Posted by: Lisa Boston | Nov 29, 07 05:38 PM

THANK YOU Erica and the entire crew who worked on this piece. WELL DONE! According to the Globe and Mail (Jan 8, 2007) "Canadians spend over $4 BILLION each year on their pets. More than half goes to the bare necessities: food and trips to the vet." I think a fantastic idea for a follow up to this week's show (a remarkable "eye-opener" which you so professionally provided the general UNAWARE public) would be to also investigate the cost of veterinary SURGERY! I appreciated the info on medications and prescription options, but I have to tell you...that as a Standard Poodle breeder now living in Ontario I have personally FLOWN with my own adult Poodles back to BC for veterinary care on more than one occasion. I have paid for the return flight from Toronto to Vancouver, the pre-surgery tests, lab work such as the blood work, pathology and biopsy, x-rays, AND the surgery for LESS money than I have been quoted by veterinarians here. Ridiculous? I'd say so! I have seen some vets prices in BOTH BC and Ontario for simple surgeries such as spay/neuter as high as $500! At a Low Cost Animal Hospital in Vancouver just moments ago I was quoted (via anonymous phone call) $70 for a dog neuter and $85 for a spay. How IS that price difference even possible? Sure would like you to be able to ask the BCVMA about THAT! Maybe it's time to consider putting a stop to the "cartel" that this "Old Boys Club" has run for years and finally make them accountable! Maybe what they need to hear is as a collective public... "We're mad as HELL and we're not going to take it any more!" Posted by: Heather Pendragon (Pendragon Poodles) | Nov 29, 07 05:47 PM

I found the comments of David Kirby of the British Columbia Veterinary Medical Association very disturbing. When asked: Q: There have been people who have had to have their pets put down. A: There will sadly always be a time when some people can't afford medical attention for their pets..... Q: .......Because the mark up (on medication)was no high..... A: No no no no no..... Q: ....That's what vets have said, people can't afford them... A: There will always be times, when no matter what the price is, unless it was free, people will not be able to afford having their pet treated at a veterinary hospital. So, "let's reach that point as soon as possible" must be the motto of the B.C.V.M.A. Posted by: John | Nov 29, 07 05:55 PM

Wow, loved reading the posts here. I found them to be more eye opening than the actual show. We see all sides of the story here. Posted by: 4 Paws Sake | Nov 29, 07 05:56 PM

It would have served the public much better if the journalist had done an extensive survey of prices and presented both the average and median price charged for the medications in question. Instead, the highest price that could be found was quoted over and over again. For example, in my feline only veterinary practice the charge for a bottle of 100 Tapazole is $33.41, this price is determined by taking my cost price of $25.91 and adding a dispensing fee. The dispensing fee charged by clinics in my area does vary slightly, but I certainly am not aware of anyone charging over $40.00. Every time we refill this prescription the cat owner is asked how the cat is doing, and if there are any apparent problems. If the owner reports any abnormality at all to the staff I will personally speak to the owner. Each time a new prescription is dispensed the patient's medical record is updated, and a new prescription label printed--taking staff time, printer usage and labels used. In addition I would like to make comments regarding the reporting on the Can West Veterinary convention, the marketing seminar and the pharmaceutical company presence. All veterinary conventions are attended for educational learning purposes. Yes, some veterinarians are very interested in marketing, but many of our profession primarily still depend on client satisfaction and word of mouth as our long term marketing "strategy". The pharmaceutical companies are a large presence at veterinary conventions, as they are at conventions for both pharmacists and medical doctors. Most veterinarians care about pets more than you can imagine and are in the profession because they do care; if their primary goal was to make money they would have chosen many other professions over veterinary medicine. Posted by: Dr. Ellen Guttormson | Nov 29, 07 05:59 PM

As usual it was a good show. It was interesting to know that vets do not offer the option of pharmacy drugs. I was quite appalled by the BC vet association's president's comments. There were a few things that could have made the show more balanced such as comparing the human medicine with veterinary medicine. Since the government pays for medical care in Canada I am always curious how doctors handle their prices. Posted by: Rita | Nov 29, 07 06:10 PM

Well CBC, you've done it again! Over a year ago, I tuned you out, radio and television, because of your mundane topics and one-sided journalism. Once again, I am forced to laugh at your ignorance and thank the media Gods that satellite radio was invented! Last night's episode of Marketplace was a prime example of why Canadian journalism is the laughing stock of mainstream news reporting. If you really wanted to 'expose' veterinarians for the 'crooks' they are, why not spend a day or two on the front lines dealing with those sick, debilitated and dying animals, as well as consoling their distraught, emotionally-charged owners and then tell the Canadian public how awful the 'vet' profession is for charging what they do! Shame on you! You have taken a few examples and painted the entire profession with the same brush. The next time Erica Johnson's hyperthyroidal cat has a crisis, I would encourage her to call the pharmacist whom fills her Tapazole prescription at 3am to open shop and stabilize her cat. Oh, that’s right. The pharmacist only works between 9AM and 5PM. Pitiful! Posted by: Damon Thompson, RVT | Nov 29, 07 06:27 PM

I have always thought that it was sad that veterinarians who got into the field of pet care because they loved animals would be fine with knowing that because they have turned it into a 'business' animals are suffering for it. I personally know of at least 7 animals from various homes that NEED medical treatment that are suffering without it because their owners can't afford the astronomical prices of treatment and meds. I don't think medical care should be about profit. I'd love to see animal rights activists push for changes in this matter. Posted by: Amber | Nov 29, 07 06:47 PM

Since it is illegal to price fix in Canada, how does Marketplace propose that veterinarians "set prices" for medications? Posted by: Katharine | Nov 29, 07 07:06 PM

Finally an expose on Veterinary Practices. Unfortunately it did not go far enough. What about the so called prescription diets that only Vets can prescribe and sell. In any other business or profession, would that not be considered a conflict of interest? Also it is well known that Vets are not trained in Nutrition and the nutritional advice they dispense comes directly from the pet food companies that they represent. I think it is high time our government took a closer look. Thank you Marketplace for this expose. There is a lot more to be told. Posted by: Bill | Nov 29, 07 07:12 PM

What a slap in the face! Veterinarians are in the top 5 "most trusted" in society according to public poles. I'd like to applaud everyone above for speaking out. There is not much more to say. As a veterinarian, I sat with my mouth open for the better part of your show. We work so hard and spend so many of our "off" days either on the phone, a computer, or in the clinic catching up or doing that bit of extra work for a pet that we are worried about. Luckily, most vets have awesome clients who listen to our advice and ask many questions so they can make informed decisions. Just today I got a big hug from an owner, whose dog (13 yr old lab) is now jumping into the back of her truck and wanting to play again for the first time in years. She is on Metcam for osteoarthritis pain. I have the best job in the world and I shouldn't be made to feel guilty for also making a living doing it. Posted by: Amy | Nov 29, 07 07:21 PM

Maybe your "reporters" (if you can even call them that after such a horrible, one-sided report) should spend a day in an animal hospital getting bitten, scratched, and "soiled on".... Then maybe they could clean up some vomit, try to hand feed a sick animal, deliver bad news to a client about their pet, and comfort a devoted pet owner during the euthanasia of their beloved companion. Stand behind the front desk and try to calm the family who has just brought their pet in that's been hit by a car. Go in surgery and perform miraculous feats on a critical patient. Tend to an animal on an i.v. that's been sick for days on end. Do an ultrasound, do radiographs, do bloodwork, do urine tests. THEN do a report on the high cost of veterinary medicine! There is a high level of skill, devotion, affection, stress, emotion, adrenaline, education, and patience that goes into working in veterinary medicine. Why does that go unnoticed? How can people expect to get the care they believe their animals deserve from a veterinarian, technician, assistant, and receptionist without paying the fees? Posted by: INFURIATED | Nov 29, 07 08:06 PM

I am disgusted by the show last night! I am a Veterinary Nurse who is SEVERELY underpaid. Veterinary professionals get into the profession for the love of animals not for the money. For the nurses out there who make $20-30 an hour, some make even more than Veterinarians. Veterinarians have done the same amount of schooling as doctors, lawyers etc., and make a quarter of what they make. Veterinary Technicians do 2-3 very intense years learning everything from anesthesia, radiography, surgery, dentistry (the list goes on and on). Did they ever make a mention that veterinary Technicians do a whole lot more, have a lot more responsibilities than nurses, yet Technicians make $10-15 an hour. We are not in it for the money. Heather,for your information we do not just dip urine in a chem strip....we analyze urine under the microscope, do a dip stick, look at specific gravity. So the $50 is a VERY good deal for Nurse time and Veterinary time. $50 is not a lot of money considering what we do with the urine submitted. You cannot compare what nurses and doctors do compared to veterinarians if you have NO IDEA! I love how people are so quick to judge and make comments when they do not even know what is going on. Sure some Veterinarians are in it for the money, but so are a lot of other professionals out there. We have a lot more overhead than pharmacies and clinics. At least when animals come to the clinic they do not have to wait months for specialty surgery, ultrasounds, blood work etc. I cannot even begin to explain how long I have to wait for my own diagnostic tests to be run, or even for results. When have you ever gotten blood or any results for that matter either that day or the day after? Maybe someone should investigate the care of human medicine compared to Veterinary Care. If it was up to me, I would rather have a Veterinarian as my Doctor than a Human Doctor. Posted by: Ramo | Nov 29, 07 08:26 PM

As for comments on $700 for dental work: did you ever consider the time for extraction of 2 teeth, the IV fluids and catheter placement, IV drugs for pain and sedation, actual anesthetic time, surgical time, the technician time monitoring your pet throughout the entire surgery, monitoring devices for your pet? I would invite you to please go down to the States and see how much it would cost a person to get 2 teeth removed. Last time I went to the dentist, I left there with a bill for $500 not even knowing what the heck I paid for. As for prescriptions, they make no mention as to how it is ILLEGAL for Veterinarians to prescribe and dispense medications to animals we have never seen before. So go ahead and shop around, you will not find a Veterinarian to fill a prescription for you. Nor did anyone mention the fact that Veterinarians are their own pharmacies, with their own overhead. IT COSTS $$$$ for all of these things. Since when did you ever go to a Doctor and walk out of the office having medications in your hand with x-rays and blood work done? Well that is a cost to pay and a convenience to owners. Veterinary professionals LOVE animals and it breaks our heart everyday to see pets in pain, or people who cannot afford Veterinary bills. At the end of the day we need staff and we need equipment to run a Veterinary clinic. The general public does not hear about the things we have to go through on a daily basis. When was putting an animal to sleep any fun? How about people after people calling up wanting to put their pet to sleep because they have a ''bladder infection,' or because they are moving and cannot take their pet with them? Do you think that's easy? All in all, people are so quick to pass judgment and make comments when in reality they have no idea what is going on! Posted by: lisa | Nov 29, 07 08:29 PM

Here is a wake up call for people who think that veterinarians are rich: As mentioned earlier by another responder, veterinarians have an average salary around $65,000 a year. And he is right, that's not a bad salary, but what he failed to consider was the COST in time/tuition/textbooks/supplies, etc of the 8 years of University education that was required before being able to obtain that salary. Also, let's not forget to consider the hourly wage. $65,000 sounds like a great salary, and it is for my father in law who is a welder in an industrial factory. He spent $0 on education, started working making an income at 16 or 18 years of age, and works 40-44 hours a week. When I graduate I will have invested MANY 10s of thousands of dollars in education, I will be 26 before I even start making any sort of income to start building my life on, and I will be working UP TO 80 HOURS A WEEK or more for my $65,000 a year! Veterinarians don't get paid overtime but we sure work a lot of it when you consider emergencies, etc.! Gee, all of a sudden that $65,000 doesn't sound like much when you break it down. The other thing I would like the reporter to consider when she looks at the HUGE VARIATION in mark-up costs between clinics is the location of the area where the clinic is located. You cannot compare the overhead running costs of a clinic in the middle of nowhere, or in a bad area of a city where rent/real estate and property taxes are low, compared to a clinic in a area where such expenses are high. As mentioned by many others, these overhead expenses have to be covered in some way so of course different clinics with different expenses will charge different mark-ups on the same product! Posted by: DVM Student in Ontario | Nov 29, 07 08:30 PM

David: ''Some on here are complaining how poorly vets are been paid, well you chose your profession, no one ask you to become a vet, you could have become a GP. Specially when some say, how poorly vets are paid''. Last time I checked that was one of the points we were making. Veterinarians are NOT in it for the money. They knew what they were getting into, financially speaking-They are not gouging people for money, not overcharging people. They are merely stating that they do not make a lot of money compared to doctors etc. No Veterinary professional is in it for the money. Veterinarians are underpaid as well as veterinary technicians (nurses). Nurses make double compared to what Technicians make, and they are expected to do a lot more. There is no such thing as a Veterinary Radiologist, Veterinary Dentist, Veterinary Surgeons, Veterinary Oncologists,etc etc. Veterinarians DO IT ALL! SO don't pass judgment if you have NO CLUE what Veterinarians and Technicians do! Posted by: Sotnas | Nov 29, 07 08:39 PM

I was disgusted. At your show. I am a veterinarian assistant, and I can assure that not all practices mark up drugs by 450%. You presented the facts in a misleading way. When giving the mark-ups for the insulin, you could have given the mark-up for the practice that sold it for $5.75 (just a 38% mark-up) but that wouldn't be shocking enough so you went with the 450% number instead. Veterinarians have to make up the cost somewhere. Their overhead costs are huge. Equipment costs, personnel costs, drugs, utilities, etc. And unlike human hospitals, most veterinary hospitals do not receive donations or grant monies to off set the costs. I'm sure you'll find that the practices who charge less for drugs are also much smaller practices without a lot of services offered. The larger the practice, the more overhead, the more mark-up is needed to offset the costs of providing the best care to your pets. Posted by: Charlotte | Nov 29, 07 09:07 PM

Thanks, CBC. Now we'll have an epidemic of poisoned pets turning up because your irresponsible journalism has encouraged their owners to source their drugs from people who don't know the first thing about animals. As a vet, I know that Tylenol can kill your cat. Does your internet pharmacy know that? I doubt it. Do they even care? The price of a drug factors in the education a vet gives a client about its use, its benefits and its dangers. I don't know where you guys got your info from, but I do know this: as an entry level vet, I make less than the average auto worker. That's after 8 years of very expensive education. So if pet owners are getting ripped off, I'd like to know where all this money is going. Posted by: Jennifer | Nov 29, 07 09:09 PM

After viewing Marketplace, I would like the producers to comment on how the variables in this programme were considered. First, how were "Secret Agent's" diabetes and hyperthyroidism diagnosed? I presume physical examinations, blood tests and monitoring to obtain optimum insulin and tapazole doses respectfully, were carried out at one veterinary clinic. How different is this to human medicine, where each step might be performed in different locales? This is a reminder that veterinarians are internists, laboratory technicians, radiologists, surgeons and pharmacists under one roof. Another issue I would like investigated is the source where different veterinary hospitals purchased their medications. There is more than one distributing company, more than one source of product; thus, varying cost to the purchaser. This will affect the price the client is charged. Did Marketplace consider this in their documentary? If a client wishes to purchase prescriptions with a human pharmacy, it is vital the client take responsibility in keeping records, should their pet need emergency care. Some medications are not compatible with other veterinary medications. Veterinarians are aware of this; however pharmacists trained in the human field, are not. This is of extreme importance, especially with respect to feline medicine. There does not exist an “on-line” history of medications for patients admitted to emergency facilities, as there is for people in some provinces. My final comment regards veterinary insurance. There are several independent companies providing pet insurance. Veterinarians do not sell veterinary insurance, however veterinary hospitals do inform clients of insurance availability. Whether a client purchases insurance is the sole choice of the individual owner. Veterinary insurance covers more than medication costs. Did Marketplace research the reimbursement from Veterinary Insurance to a client of the respective medications? Posted by: Liz | Nov 29, 07 09:31 PM

This Marketplace show was 'dead on'. Not only do vets gouge their clients, they are reluctant to offer information which will help an owner save money on prescription costs. And the comment about vets being underpaid; really, what planet do you live on? I have two cats on Tapazole, one on Fortekor and another on insulin. After my own research I first determined that Fortekor is identical to Lotensin, a human drug. Even the pills are identical in colour and shape. After some stalling, my vet agreed that I could substitute Lotensin, a drug I can obtain at my local pharmacy at 40% the cost of Fortekor at the vets office. Next, I had my vet call-in the other two cat prescriptions to that same pharmacy. The costs this time were half what the vet charged. This is not free enterprise, this is robbery. Comparing the marketing of an electronics item to a life sustaining medical drug is ludicrous. Try comparative shopping when your cat or dog is convulsing! One is literally at the total mercy of a vet to 'suggest' any number of highly expensive tests or drugs to an owner simply wanting to save the life of a friend. There needs to be a system put into place to help pet owners reduce the cost of veterinary medicine Making offices post their prices and freely offer to write prescriptions for filling prescriptions elsewhere would be a good place to start. Posted by: Bruce | Nov 29, 07 09:34 PM

I was looking forward to your story on veterinary medical care in hopes that a good journalist would give the public insight into preventive medical care for pets, pet insurance, and the high cost of veterinary care in Canada. To put it mildly, I was disappointed to see that the focus of the segment was about differences in the markup of medications. As others have indicated, DOCTORS of veterinary medicine are the experts at providing pets with appropriate medications, some of which are available in pharmacies, while other human drugs are not as effective, or completely ineffective. Canadians should be aware that it does cost to have a pet and keep that pet healthy. People who can not afford to compassionately finance their own pet health care should not state that the mark up in a veterinary hospital is why they have to euthanize the pet. Veterinarians did not make the pets sick, nor did they force any owner to purchase a pet. Veterinarians provide facilities, equipment and educated staff to deliver good medical care in one tenth of the time that you receive from a human hospital. They also don’t run their hospitals in a deficit and have six month wait times for surgery. Doctors of veterinary hospitals work hard to educate the public on health care costs and how good preventive medical care can decrease those costs. Too bad you did not take the time to do the same. Posted by: Lindy Martin | Nov 29, 07 09:54 PM

I attended the Vet conference in Banff. During one session we were told that the CBC was "reporting on the conference" A camera man came in and filmed the speaker for a couple of minutes and left. The subject was infectious diseases of cats, the speaker was excellent and as I watched the camera man filming, I thought that this was pretty cool, the public should see something like this. I am totally disappointed that the only "report" I ever saw was a brief piece on a management speaker that was taken out of context and portrayed in a most negative framework to satisfy Ms Johnson's slanted agenda. I am left wondering if the CBC was completely honest with the conference organizers when they told them they were "reporting on the conference" It looks pretty sleazy to me!! Regarding the markup story; That looked like nothing more than Ms Johnson's personal vendetta against feeling overcharged by her own veterinarian. Why attack thousands of honest, hard working professionals because you have a personal axe to grind. Move on Erica! What a waste of time! Next week I'm watching the Simpsons. That's much more socially responsible. Posted by: Jack Anvik DVM British Columbia | Nov 29, 07 09:59 PM

There are two sides to every story, well at least in responsible journalism. It might be nice if we all received a copy of the bill next time we went to our family physician or hospital. Then we might realize the true cost of health care. There are however some things that are priceless. Before you make a decision, educate yourself. There are many health care professionals, both on the human and animal side, that give selflessly in an almost self destructive capacity. They have spent more years in University than is healthy by any standard. Why? To try to make a difference, in this world and to humankind. When is the last time you put someone's or some animal's interest before your own? Posted by: Bruce Stover | Nov 29, 07 10:47 PM

Shame on those of you who have compared the price margins of cars to those of pet meds. The margins of veterinary medications should be compared to their human counterpart, in which case Marketplace has opened the eyes of people all over Canada to the fact that their vet may well be gouging them. For those of you who use overhead costs as an excuse for ridiculous markups of medications, a simple look at those many veterinarians who chose to price their medications ethically with their patients best interests in mind is proof that this argument is BS. And finally, let's not forget that we're above all else talking about a HUGE conflict of interest here, letting a prescribing doctor sell medication. There's a damn good reason that MD's are not allowed to sell meds from their clinics. Vets should not be selling medication in the first place, or "prescription diets" for that matter. Veterinarians have this idea that they are free from these ethical questions because their patients are only animals. Well, times have changed, and I for one think that it's time we re-evaluated the entire veterinary system in Canada. A quick note to the person who had to go to Niagara for affordable pet care... Brantford is another option. Excess overhead is not a good enough argument to explain why one city charges $200-300 to neuter a cat, and another charges $75, and includes use of laser and pain medication. This should be the first of many exposes on veterinarians in this country. Posted by: Kim | Nov 29, 07 10:55 PM

Thank you for an excellent program! Next let's hear about the excess cost of spay/neuter because in the US there are mobile clinics where you can get a cat spayed for under $40 and we are paying upwards from $200 and $50 a night for the animal to stay overnight! Then there is the issue of unnecessary yearly vaccines that are causing more harm than good [www.catshots.com & www.whale.to/vaccine/driscoll1.html]. Yearly vaccines are no more necessary for pets than they are for children. As for Vets being underpaid - they choose the career. David Kirby referred to Veterinary Practice as a 'business' which to me that seems a pretty mercenary attitude when speaking of what amounts to a member of the FAMILY for many people. Doctors are regulated, why not vets? Posted by: Marnie | Nov 29, 07 10:58 PM

I watched the program last night and thought it was such a service to those of us who love our animals and want them to have the best care possible but without feeling that we are being gouged. I've read some of the comments posted above and would like to respond to those who have commented that taking a prescription to a pharmacist to have it filled is not safe due to differences in human and veterinary med dosages. If you have a prescription from your vet, the vet is the one specifying the dose, so it is really no different or worse off for your pet than going the expensive route and buying the medication directly from the vet for four times the price. Markups of 100 - 450% are completely unethical. Bravo to the CBC for this very informative, yet shocking (!) documentary. Posted by: Katrina | Nov 29, 07 11:05 PM

About 10 years ago John Stossel of the show 20/20 did an undercover report about veterinarians. He brought a cat and a hidden camera to 10 different vet clinics in NYC to see if a veterinarian would try to sell him something he didn't need. Guess what - no one did. He was so impressed that he told this story at a major vet conference. Unfortunately, the story didn't air because it didn't make for "good television". It was however, good, accurate and ethical journalism. After 12 years in practice, having paid off my $60K in student loans, I opened my own clinic. I have not yet drawn a salary and do not plan to for at least 3-5 years. Every time I think I'm getting out of the red I get another bill. And let's not forget the people who never pay their bill at all, or who abandon their animals only to get another one 6 months later. Ask any vet how many animals they have and how many they have rescued. I have 9 right now and have had up to 12. I walk into grocery stores and see the money going into the tills. There is a mark up between stores and variation in the price of the same item. We all need to eat so why not investigate and attack the grocery stores that are making a profit hand over fist? Yes it was our choice to become veterinarians. We were told on the first day of school that if we entered this profession to become rich then we should leave now and chose another profession. It is unfair to portray us as gouging, money grabbing people who take advantage of others. Thanks CBC for making our job a little harder. I will dodge any CBC interview from now on so as not to be snowballed. Posted by: CA | Nov 29, 07 11:10 PM

I was surprised and upset that Ms Johnson felt justified in subjecting her sick kitty to the stress of multiple unnecessary car rides just to "stick it to" the vets. Posted by: Eddy | Nov 29, 07 11:10 PM

I am not impressed by the number of veterinarians who have written in to complain about this piece. Basically, what I've heard is a)we deserve respect, b) we don't get paid as much as human doctors, and c) everyone has to take into account the cost of running a clinic, etc. However, people get charged for tests, for exams, for every aspect of the animal's treatment at the vet. Veterinarians CANNOT justify mark-ups on drugs of over 200%. My cat had to get her teeth cleaned -- I was quoted prices between $250.00 and $1000.00. To say that attacking this kind of price differential is tantamount to attacking a profession is ludicrous. You want people to respect you? Stop justifying price-gouging as somehow legitimate simply because you don't make as much money as human doctors. It's disgusting, and utterly shameful. Should veterinarians be paid better? I don't know. How much is the average veterinarian paid? Make that argument instead of trying to somehow suggest that vast price differences for medications, from clinic to clinic, are a necessary form of capitalist competition. Posted by: Monica | Nov 29, 07 11:24 PM

Wow all I can say is that I am happy that my aunt is my vet. She charges me only her cost on drugs and not for time. so for the second round of shots on my cat, neutering and chipping him it was only $80 or so. She is also has told me to go to the pharmacy and pick up polysporin eye and ear for my cat's irritated eye. said it's even cheaper than what she could give me at cost. If not for my aunt vet there is no way I could afford to keep either of my cats. the few times I had emergencies and could not make it to Vineland to see her I had to go somewhere else and was shocked at how much it cost for them to just look at my cat and run a few simple tests involving eye drops and a light. I have no problem whatsoever with people making a profit but some of those markups seem a bit ridiculous. if I need an emergency vet again I will for sure be willing to ask if they will do prescriptions or not first. Posted by: Erin | Nov 29, 07 11:49 PM

Wow, what a one sided story. I had many issues with how that was presented. First, simply put, if a person wanted to get rich, there are many many easier ways to do it than to become a DVM. To become Dr's, they take difficult, expensive, and lengthy schooling. All the vets that I know work long hours, are on call frequently, do many dirty jobs, deal with emotional clients during difficult times, and are often put under pressure to diagnose and fix complicated medical issues for 'under XX $ or I'm putting the animal down'. Many DVMs are paid salary, and receive nothing for drugs, food, or other items sold at the clinic. All Vets that I have ever met have been caring and are interested in the clients and their animals. Many are involved in the community, giving free dog bite prevention talks to school children, talking about animal health at puppy classes, and organizing/participating in stockdog/agility/flyball/etc. events. Are they trying to take advantage of people? No, they are just trying to run their business. From what I understand, most Vet schools don't teach much about running a small business... so it is no surprise that different clinics operate on different billing models. Also, different clinics will get different rates depending on their volume... I would bet that the Dr who disclosed the prices on this 'news' piece operates many clinics (probably more than 10). Another note: if our medical system operated half as effectively as a good vet clinic, we wouldn't be in the middle of a health care crisis... now that would be an interesting angle for a news piece. Posted by: James | Nov 30, 07 12:11 AM

Did you know that although many veterinarian drugs can be obtained from human pharmacies (in human dosages and formulations), there is another group of drugs that human pharmacists are NOT LICENSED to dispense. Drugs labelled "For Veterinary Use Only" are not available to human pharmacists or physicians, in fact, the only people licensed to use, dispense and administer these drugs are VETERINARIANS. This responsibility has been granted to veterinarians because they are the only profession that has been trained in VETERINARY pharmacology and physiology and are therefore the only people qualified to determine the drugs' appropriate use. Human pharmacists have no training in the unique species differences that occur in the metabolism of drugs. For example, many drugs including tylenol are incredibly toxic to cats, because cats lack the liver enzymes necessary to metabolize this drug. This is unique to cats, and by allowing pharmacists who are not trained in the physiology of their patients, we are endangering the lives of our pets. Veterinarians are some of the lowest paid professionals. Unlike human physicians who are guaranteed a generous government paid salary, veterinarians must not only practice medicine, but run a business in order to be successful. I was sincerely disappointed with the lack of journalistic merit and the biased representation of this piece. As a veterinary student, I can assure you that if I had wanted to get rich in my profession, I would have gone into human medicine. Posted by: Veterinary Student | Nov 30, 07 12:24 AM

Yikes! What a ruckus! Barking and meowing all over the place. In addition to the valid comments about overhead costs, pet owners need to remember that veterinarians have to study longer than do doctors of (human) medicine to be able to practice. Their patients cannot tell them how they feel or where it hurts. And I doubt my MD would call me while on vacation to check up on my health! Or make a house call, or pick me up at home and take me to the clinic. (My vet has done all of these.) If you don't like what you're paying (or the care given) shop around. Be an educated consumer. Simple as that. In any case, I think Marketplace missed the real story: pet insurance. Posted by: Francoise | Nov 30, 07 12:33 AM

Thank-you for posting this report. As a pet owner, I was disgusted by the heartlessness with which the BC association representative was answering the questions. The clinic that serves my area is extremely cold and unresponsive to anything that questions their knowledge. I had similar experiences to the report when I asked about a healthier diet. The clinic recommended brand X food. Fortunately for my timing, the pet food recall had recently occurred. I decided to do some research myself to find out the real facts about pet health and nutrition. The results of my research was eye opening. Firstly, pet associations do not post any information whatsoever for the public. Could this be part of the cover-up? Secondly, I discovered that the recommended food was actually quite unhealthy. I then returned to the clinic to ask about the food quality, they nearly kicked me out of the office. I later found out that the clinic is sponsored by the food company. After doing much research, I learned about diet instead of brands. The conclusions that resulted were natural and homoepathic. I do recommend all pet owners to invest their time in researching the proper diets and the everyday problems we see in our pets will go away. Many of the previous posts are obviously from veterinarians. I understand their anger at being lumped in one large group. However, the disrespect they all (but one) showed in their views towards the public does not help their cause. Posted by: Ryan Razzo | Nov 30, 07 01:53 AM

Would you buy a car without researching insurance, gas and maintenance costs? Not likely. So why wouldn't you do the same before buying a pet? Too expensive? Perhaps you should take the bus and save a little longer. Would you accuse a human physician working in the United States of not caring for their patients because they were not providing services at cost to a low income family? I certainly wouldn't. Medicine is a business, services and products cost money, and the doctors (human or veterinary) need to put food on their table! We are very lucky here in Canada, that our healthcare is provided for us, not necessarily free, but it is not an added expense coming out of our savings. It makes us blind to the monetary value of those services though. With veterinarians, you are paying for prompt service, expensive equipment and professional training; a MINIMUM of 6 years, soon to be 7 in an Ontario university, with the majority of individuals doing more than that. Should we charge $400 per hour like other professionals that have less professional training? I would bet the average employee would want to be paid more for doing more; perhaps veterinarians should charge 6 or even $700 per hour. I would rather see animals receive proper medical treatment for a $60 exam fee than to pad my wallet! My heart aches for the animals in shelters without a loving home, or the animals that are euthanized because their owners cannot afford treatment, and even those that have lived a full life but simply can't go on; to be accused of not caring is beyond insulting. Thank you, CBC Marketplace, for your one-sided version of journalism. I hope that your viewers can be as critical of your program as they are of veterinarians. Posted by: Student Veterinarian | Nov 30, 07 02:02 AM

If veterinarians have such high overhead (and they likely do), why do they feel the need to bury their overhead costs in the price of their drugs? Is it because they know customers would question high service fees but simply assume that drug costs are fixed? Customers know doctors have high overhead and many are understanding when fees reflect this---IF their doctors are upfront about it. What this sneakiness does is make customers suspicious of their vets, which does a great disservice to the profession as a whole. On another note, it's amazing how people are quick to decry a report as "bad journalism" when they don't agree with it. Posted by: Eddy Elmer | Nov 30, 07 03:47 AM

In response to David's poorly educated remarks above, veterinarians are intellectual people who have worked long and hard and they should be paid for it. Do you not feel that you deserve to be paid well when you've worked hard? Do a little research before making uneducated remarks and compare a veterinarian's salary to that of dentists, lawyers and medical doctors. Unfortunately, here in Canada many people are unaware of how costly medical care really is and we're quick to jump to conclusions. It's a sad reality knowing that society is so easily influenced on sloppy media coverage. Posted by: Jon | Nov 30, 07 05:34 AM

When our cat was diagnosed with diabetes the veterinarian gave me a prescription and told me to get the pills at the pharmacy. Even when we moved and had to find a new clinic, I was given a prescription for his meds. I believe this show was biased and now I'm questioning past stories. Oh, and not just veterinarians were at that conference in Banff you showed in our program. Veterinarian technologists were there and they had to pay for the conference just like anyone who attends business conferences. Posted by: Rolanda | Nov 30, 07 09:35 AM

I think a great many people here defending the practice of Vets over-charging for meds is absurd! Imagine if you went to buy a car and the wholesale price was $15,000 ... and the car dealership charged you $80,000. Would you simply say, "oh well, we are also paying for a service"? Look at your bill again - you're also being charged for the service! Get real! Nobody is begrudging Vets the right to make money - but when you have a 450% markup ... that's beyond the realm of making money ... that's STEALING money! How many of these rip-off artists would be happy about paying a 450% markup on their dental work, eye glasses, cars, homes, groceries, etc.? They would call it exactly what it is - gouging! Posted by: Russ | Nov 30, 07 09:37 AM

I've been in the dog world 24 years, dog biz 10 years. I enjoyed your story on pet pharmacies. I have always disagreed with vets dispensing medicine as most do not explain side effects or contrainidications of the medication. When we go to a pharmacy these are clearly explained to us. I would also like to see the vets in Canada follow the new vaccine recommendations (vaccinate every 3 years, not yearly). If you look at the vaccine inserts (which you do not see at the vet clinic) It clearly states every 3 years. The administration of yearly vaccines to a animal who does not need it would show up in better health (less medications billed.) I am sure Canadians would be shocked to know they are paying for something which has been shown to be harmful to their pets. Posted by: Lori Prostebby | Nov 30, 07 10:03 AM

I could not believe the segment on veterinary services. I have been a pet owner all my life and have noticed over time the escalating fees at local Veterinary Clinics. It really makes me wonder about the "work ethics" of Veterinarians today. It is obvious to some that animals are secondary and the mighty dollar seems to come first. I am sure there are still a few vets out there that don't practice on this basis however, after viewing your segment it certainly raised eyebrows! As for the journalist's interview, the man she was speaking to was no different than a politician. He never answered her questions, only ball parked around them. His attitude was basically, "easy come easy go" especially when they were talking about pets dying due to the expense put on owners. Some pet owners have no other options other than to put their beloved pet to sleep due to vet costs. For example, the fees for orthopedic surgery are huge! Most of us pet owners know that a lot of these services are done in Guelph, at the Vet. College. These fees are astronomical! I know of a few pet owners who have had their beloved pet undergo surgery in Guelph. The fees ended up being between, $1,000. and $5,000. Why can't there be O.H.I.P. for animals? If such a thing existed, there would no longer be unwanted animals. The burden and pressure would be reduced greatly for Humane Society's and not to mention the death toll. I guess my perfect world will never come during my time on planet Earth! Posted by: Brenda J. W. | Nov 30, 07 10:13 AM

Talk to your vet! Most of us with pets who require long-term medication have formed a trusting relationship with our vet and with the clinic staff. And most vets genuinely care about their patients. When I told my vet about the Marketplace segment and asked whether it was possible to get a prescription he was happy to oblige. I saved about $60, and my vet earned my continued loyalty. Posted by: Anne | Nov 30, 07 11:04 AM

I would like to add that it was our family vet who informed us that medications for our animals were available at our local pharmacy. I also know that she treats animals who have no owners and absorbs the cost of treatment herself. Most veterinarians that I have met are an incredibly caring group of individuals who, in general, are financially undercompensated for their work considering the level of training they have completed in order to practice. My concern with your show is that people who have watched it may avoid visiting their vet for fear of being taken advantage of financially. This may result in animals, who have treatable conditions, not receiving the treatment they require to live a healthy and happy life. Please consider the bias you have presented and the potential negative outcome of airing that. By the way, the condition (hyperthyroidism) that 'tapazole' (the most quoted drug in your show) is the treatment for has a definitive treatment (radioactive iodine injection) so that long term medication is not necessary. There is a clinic in Vancouver that specializes in this treatment and, considering the number of days in hospital that is required, is very economically reasonable. The definitive treatment is more cost-effective than long-term tapazole treatment. Posted by: Rosemarie | Nov 30, 07 11:46 AM

I will start by saying I am a regular CBC watcher but may not be anymore. The fact that the CBC would allow such a negatively biased, unresearched piece air is very disappointing. The Veterinarians angry have every right to be so. There are so many things wrong with this show.....firstly, a comparison of Veterinarians salaries vs. Pharmacists, Doctors or Lawyer salaries would have been interesting, but not good for your negative slant. I have been a Registered Veterinary Technician for 16 years now and have know many vets, none of whom I would call wealthy. And most Veterinary Technicians have left the field after less than 10 years of practice, mostly because of low salaries, long hours and stress. Ms. Johnson knows nothing of our 10-12 hour days only to go home and be on call all night and go back to work for 8 am the next day, or to work a shift at an emergency clinic on Christmas Day. I have done 7 euthanasias in one shift; tell me I'm not worth decent wages as I'm driving home crying and I'll tell you where to go. My equivalent in human medicine makes 2 to 3 times what I do for the same skills. Fewer, actually as I am nurse, radiology technician, anesthetist, client educator, lab technician and more all rolled into one for 2 or more species. Posted by: Deborah Thompson | Nov 30, 07 01:11 PM

Those clients buying medications from the pharmacy will have fun trying to reach the pharmacist at 4am because Fluffy is having an adverse reaction. Even if they do, the pharmacist has no knowledge of the side effects in your pet. Your comparison photo of Meloxicam and Metacam would be laughable if it were not so dangerous for any pet whose owner decides they will give the Meloxicam they have at home to Fluff. Will you be liable when the lawsuit is filed Ms. Johnson? When Fluff is dead? The Metacam is in a form that can be properly dosed to a 100lb dog or a 10lb dog. The 15mg bottle of Meloxicam shown in your show would be used for treating a 330lb dog! (when you find one, let me know - now that would be a show!) Utterly ridiculous that you would compare the two. Not only is the Meloxicam made for much larger humans, the companies producing the pet versions of these medications also spend the money to research them in ANIMALS, so we know the side affects, drug interactions and possible adverse reactions in your pet. If we stop buying these medications those companies stop doing their research, stop getting these medications licensed for pets and we as pet owners lose. You also showed that you did little talking to Veterinarians or staff when you stated that people don't compare pricing. Not a day goes by when there is no phone calls asking the price of routine surgery. And this has been going on my entire career. If people are concerned about cost they ask. Most practices I have worked at dispense some medications, write prescriptions for others. None have charged a prescription fee which your human doctor does every time and human doctors also require that you visit the doctor for refills whereas most Veterinarians do not. Posted by: Deborah Thompson RVT 2 | Nov 30, 07 01:13 PM

Veterinary Hospitals are providing a service. If a client is not happy with that service for whatever reason, they should look for a new clinic. People leave clinics for many reasons. Cost is usually low on the list. Most pet lovers are more concerned with the quality of care, the knowledge of the staff and that their beloved pet will receive compassionate, gentle treatment. If this clinic costs more than the other down the street, most owners understand that this level of service means continuing education costs for all staff, not just the vet, costs for good equipment, costs for keeping the building in good condition, costs for staff to keep it clean, etc. When you bring your pet to a clinic you are paying for the whole relationship you will have with that clinic. And remember, in life in general, you get what you pay for. If our regular client who follows advice for preventive health care calls me or my vet at 4am with a concern there will be no charge for the 30 minute discussion. If someone who goes to another clinic for their vaccines, the pharmacy for their medications and us for crisis management, calls, there may be a charge. I have no relationship with that caller. Will most vets still take the call? Absolutely. Posted by: Deborah Thompson RVT 3 | Nov 30, 07 01:15 PM

I'm not sure why some people think I should work for free just because I care for animals. I still have a family, a mortgage, and my own 8 pets to pay for. Do you work for free Ms. Johnson? What is your salary? I agree that the lady with 14 cats should find a new veterinarian, but to lump all in one category is very wrong and to suggest that owners buy medication from a pharmacist who is untrained in animal medicine is simply bad advice and could harm the pet. All of the prescriptions that leave my office come with an information sheet and the technician on duty discusses the dose and usage with the client. We also call a few days later to make sure the owner is able to get the medication into Fluff. It's useless, no matter how cheap, if they cannot get it into the pet: does your pharmacist do this? I also think you will find that most medications will not be cheaper at a pharmacist when the client has to pay a prescription fee to their vet to get it. Most clinics do not charge this for medication dispensed from the clinic. Most clinics I have worked at have had a reasonable mark-up on medications and other over the counter supplies. The clinic I am working at now is in a small town, has excellent clients who know us well, know we don’t drive fancy cars or live in mansions, and trust us to care for their family members. We are more expensive than the next town’s clinic but our clients expect a high level of service for their money and get it. We received one phone call in the 2 days following this show and it was a client from the other clinic. Our clients trust us because they know us, they understand that we don’t work for free, that we care about their companions and we understand that if we break that trust they will go elsewhere. Posted by: Deborah Thompson RVT 4 | Nov 30, 07 01:17 PM

In my book your show failed. You neglected to mention Pet Insurance. Veterinarians do fantastic work and their attitude is always for the animal first. The medications they prescribe are based on the tests they have to run and not just dispense medication as a regular pharmacist does. They should be able to charge the higher fee as the overhead is higher. Marketplace has not given the correct advice. A regular pharmacist will not understand the cross tolerance effect of the drugs an animal is taking should their be more than one drug the animal is on and could end up hurting the dog rather than fixing the problem. My advice to anyone getting a dog or cat: speak to your local veterinarian first they can discuss the potential medical issues the breed of dog may get in the future, along with the costs that are going to be incurred in the future. Too many people don't research this very well and haven't financially prepared for the future. Don't blame the veterinarian’s for the poor choice people make in choosing an animal. They aren't the ones in the store trying to sell a puppy dog to a family that can't really afford it. The job of a Veterinarian is to save the life of the animal. However, they can't work for free due to the massive amount of equipment, staff and continuous courses they need to take. Posted by: Lloyd Speyer | Nov 30, 07 01:28 PM

Veterinarians have violated the trust of their clients. Taking advantage of them when they are vulnerable. Playing on the love for their pets. For what? GREED. We should be demanding that our government officials take away the source of that greed. VETERINARIANS SHOULD NO LONGER BE ALLOWED TO SELL DRUGS. Posted by: keith | Nov 30, 07 03:14 PM

Oh seriously people. Quit your bitching and moaning! "Ohhhh, it is outrageous to pay this price for my animal's health and well-being. Now how am I gonna afford that new big screen TV?!" "You vets should offer your services for free! Student loan repayments and overhead to run this clinic be damned! You need to pay for your bill at the grocery store too? Screw that, you don't need to have any kind of life outside making my pet healthy again, 'cause that is what you are supposed to do." Pathetic. Just pathetic. How many of you people here whining go to work for free everyday? The world is run off of money. Where do you think that your company gets the money to write you a paycheck every other week? ::GASP:: They get it by selling services and goods to other people. Posted by: Nonya Bidnes | Nov 30, 07 03:49 PM

I just hope the quality of veterinarian care we are receiving is better than the quality of this one sided, ill informed journalism. Before embarking on a subject such as this, I would suggest a little bit of research into what comprises the costs would be well advised, so you do not look so foolish in your comments regarding Rx costs, and veterinarian fees in general. Too bad the public are not aware of what each visit to their GP and the human lab tests which they get at other labs truly cost, then maybe they would have a better understanding of the cost of veterinarian care by a qualified Dr. of Veterinary Medicine. Unlike human medicine, it is not subsidized by the gov't. Posted by: Ron Bedford | Nov 30, 07 04:33 PM

What an incredibly amateurish and lazily researched program. It was shock journalism at it's worst. Why are people shocked that veterinarians want to make a profit? Why are people shocked that veterinarians want to make a good living, based on the amount of time, energy and money it takes to become a veterinarian? As a veterinarian, I don't do any procedures without going over an estimate of the costs involved first. It's our job to let you know what your options are. It's your job as pet owners to decide what YOU want to do. We aren't banks, and we aren't here to help you finance your lifestyle. We do what we can (in Ontario vets give away over $1,000,000 in services every year) but we can't provide care "at cost" for everyone. Why on earth would anyone adopt 14 cats if they couldn't afford to take care of them properly? Don't blame your vet for "guilting" you into doing work you cannot afford. Try to work with them within your budget to come up with a plan that works for you. Our clients demand the best, most up-to-date medicine we can provide. Guess what? That gets more expensive to provide every year. I'm proud to be a Canadian veterinarian. I'm embarrased by the CBC. Posted by: Edward Morris | Nov 30, 07 04:43 PM

Re: Amherst Vets - Vancouver We have known about the option of having our dogs' prescriptions filled at the pharmacy for more than 15 years. We know, because the Veterinary Hospital we use (Amherst Vets in Vancouver, and in particular, Dr. Grant Cumberbirch), told us of this option when we first became clients. Not only do the Staff at Amherst make this option available to their clients when a human equivalent drug is available, appropriate and less expensive, but they do not charge for writing prescriptions or for taking calls from the Pharmacy to confirm refills. In the last 5 years alone, they have saved us several thousand dollars by prescribing the human equivalent of an arthritic medication for our elderly Goldie. Yes, it is important to shine light on this issue, but it is also important to publicly acknowledge those in the profession who care about their patients and their patients' guardians. May you all be fortunate enough to find a Veterinary Clinic like Amherst for the animal members of your Pack. Posted by: Carrie Johnston | Nov 30, 07 05:25 PM

Ok I am a Dr of Veterinary Medicine. I thought the show was very one sided. I challenge CBC Marketplace to post a comparison of wages and average hours worked for the following professions: 1)CBC journalists 2)Physicians 3)Dentists 4)Pharmacists 5)Lawyers By the way, all these professionals have similar levels of education and require a professional degree and designation, except of course CBC journalist. They all take their responsibilities very seriously except of course ..... well you know.... SOME of the journalists. Posted by: Nick Shaw | Nov 30, 07 05:25 PM

It's interesting working for a Vet and watching this program. I checked out the cost of Topazole and there are two different companies that make it. One cost $10.00 cheaper than the other yet, they are the same mg and number of pills. So complaining about the cost of drugs without knowing who the manufacturer is and the cost the vet paid to begin with is useless. We work hard to save family pets and I don't think it is fair to paint such a negative picture of the Veterinary world. If people only knew what the true cost of what medicine really was one would be shocked. When we as people go for tests(lab work) we don't know what the cost is. HELLO it's in the hundreds of dollars. So when your pet requires these same tests guess who pays.... and complains about the cost. WAKE UP people and realize that unfortunately life costs money. Look around you at the costs of everyday living! Posted by: JLM | Nov 30, 07 05:31 PM

I have a cat that is diabetic. My vet prescribed the insulin (Glargine) from the pharmacy. The pharmacist charges me a dispensing fee for it every time. Also when I enquire about the side effects he tells me to talk to the vet. I have been with this vet for the past 8 years and I respect him. I thought your program was accusational and one-sided. Posted by: Rita | Nov 30, 07 06:05 PM

I find it sad that although the show was about the high cost of drugs for pet owners, the CBC is printing comments bashing veterinarians for malpractice. If people feel they have been treated unfairly or that professionals have demonstrated incompetence, there are proper channels and places people can go to get legitimate concerns addressed. To print these off-topic comments is in poor taste and further contributes to the bad journalism as shown by Marketplace. Posted by: connie | Nov 30, 07 07:49 PM

Thanks to those pointing out the obvious problem with this report: its lack of objectivity and misleading conclusions made using a limited study of the overall population. What it has now done is compromise peoples’ trust in veterinary professionals about other health decisions as well, not simply regarding medications. It also seems to have been overlooked that although pharmacists carry some drugs used in animals, not all formulations are identical despite the drug names, and drug activity can really vary in each species. Pharmacists are not equipped with any knowledge of the drug activity in pets, and only know how these drugs work in humans. Clients with questions will still need to ask their vet for advice if anything goes wrong, and any vet will take responsibility for handling patients with adverse reactions to drugs they dispensed. Who then would be responsible for the cost of treatment arising when drugs are coming from another source? Vets will still have to charge for a prescription considering the amount of time it takes to formulate a plan, calculate a dosage, consider any drug interactions, and write clear instructions to a pharmacist. People seem to think these decisions are made on a whim, and are not backed with years of valuable experience to base them on. Drugs are not handed out without necessity simply to cash in on some unsuspecting, gullible consumer. Medications are to be treated with respect, and clients should be glad so many now exist for our pets so they can live long lives. To say vets charge outrageous prices is to completely ignore the prices drug companies are charging for those drugs in the first place. To echo the over-dramaticism of your report, aren’t they truly the ones condemning animals to die at the high cost of medications? Not that it matters, but I’m sure most drug company executives drive nicer cars than even the wealthiest of vets. Posted by: A | Nov 30, 07 08:01 PM

As an employee of a veterinary hospital, I can’t tell you the number of times vets I work for take in stray animals, or make discounts here and there for clients with extenuating circumstances simply so some unlucky owners can keep their pets alive. They swallow these costs because they do care, and their goal in life is to be able to sleep at night knowing they did the best they could for their clients. Maybe charging higher mark ups is the only way many vet practices can survive the pressures of today’s marketplace. Erica’s report has put a biased negative slant on many undeserving members of a respected profession, and I wonder how she will find a vet for her cat that won’t be suspicious of her motives as a client in the future. I am tired of our media sensationalizing everything and forgetting what true journalism should be about: equal representation of both sides of an issue. Posted by: Anon | Nov 30, 07 08:05 PM

Oh, and that plateful of Fettucini Alfredo you had at the Italian Restaurant last night for $15.95, and the $4.75 beer you had with it really costs that much at the store, too. Veterinarians are doctors for animals. They go to university for eight grueling years, just like human physicians. They are surgeons, radiologists, gynecologists, proctologists, dermatologists, endocrinologists, gastroenterologists, neurologists... all rolled into one, for many different species from cats to turtles to parrots and horses. To be accepted into a D.V.M. (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine) program requires many years of dedicated preparation beforehand: volunteering at veterinary clinics, humane societies and being involved in the community in non-animal related leadership roles, plus, of course, outstanding academic performance. Please stop to realize that veterinarians are in a service industry, that this is their usually more-than-full-time, not exactly cushy job, and that this is what they do to earn a living. Do you ever get mad that you are paying $25 for half an hour of lying in a tanning bed? Or $50 for a 45-minute massage? Well, veterinarians make a whole lot less than that per hour. A friend of mine, with a doctor in front of her name, who works upward of 60 hours a week, is on call every second day and freezes her fingers off in -34 C to get a live calf out of a cow, makes $56,000 a year BEFORE taxes and other deductions. And did I mention her student loans of $150,000? Posted by: Tallulah | Nov 30, 07 08:49 PM

To Tanja. Your raw food diet that you claim to be so wonderful is not only a danger to your pet but, also to yourself. Your veterinarian is not trying to get you to buy your their food to make money it is for the health of your pet. There are no studies out there that prove that a raw food diet is beneficial to your pet. Also I work in the Animal Care field and I have witnessed cases myself of salmonella in dogs where they have actually died and other owners that have gotten sick from feeding their pets this diet. It is a health concern and should be researched carefully before using. Pets have not eaten raw meat diets since they have been domesticated and do not get the correct nutritional needs from this type of diet. Cat also need a source of Taurine in their diet to live a healthy diet. Posted by: Rosa | Nov 30, 07 08:53 PM

No one is "at the mercy" of their vets. If you object to fees you are free to explore other practices. The only reason human health care is deemed affordable is because it's already paid for, spread over the entire population via taxes. I would welcome a similar system for pets since it would ensure owners opt for the best care possible, but that is currently not the case; the closest equivalent is pet insurance. People don't understand that one way or the other, YOU WILL PAY. If the government subsidizes animal health care, taxes will be higher. If you opt for pet insurance, you are reimbursed by the company but still pay premiums. If an agency steps in to firmly regulate the cost of pharmaceuticals, service fees will skyrocket. So really, it sounds like a lot of people are just horribly ignorant and/or just want something for nothing? Someone in this thread actually suggested that veterinary products be sold wholesale. Surprise surprise. Bottom line: pets are neither right nor luxury, they are a privilege that deserve all due responsibility from owners within their means. Responsible owners do what they can, and responsible veterinarians try to meet them half way if possible. The vast majority of veterinarians are properly motivated by concern for animal wellness and little else. These people train for up to 8 years post-secondary; they are DOCTORS and support staff, and the care they provide is the best available to the knowledge of this ever-evolving field. Posted by: Nathanael | Nov 30, 07 09:20 PM

First of all veterinarians are not mind readers. When a sick animal comes into an animal hospital, doctors can not just go to their crystal ball and tell you what’s wrong. They need to do blood work, x-rays est. not because they want your money but they want to do what’s best for your pet and try to save their life. All professional services have a cost and what makes veterinary services any different? Pet owners need to educate themselves and understand the expensive of an animal hospital. It's not cheap and if you want the best care for your pet its going to come with a cost, not because the veterinarian wants to make money, but wants to be there in the future to give you the best care your pet needs with supplies, equipment, products, staff , est. Of course some people have had problems with veterinarians, but name me a business that everyone has been satisfied with; people are always going to find a fault in something no matter what the problem or cost is. And for all the rest of you going to your veterinarian fighting and arguing for what you think is best. What kind of service do you think you would get? If someone came to my work place saying that they didn’t value or respect my time, education or information I would not give them the time or day. Unfortunately veterinarians have to do what’s best for their patients and have to put the pet owner’s hurt full comments aside when trying to save their pets lives. Posted by: RRS | Nov 30, 07 10:45 PM

It's difficult to compare human health care with veterinary care, since we in Canada are lucky enough not to pay for our health care and have little idea how costly it is. But if we are going to compare, ask yourself: if you happen to have a family doctor, when was the last time you could reach him/her with your health concerns 24/7? Be seen on a weekend/holiday? Will your doctor call you regularly, even sometimes from home, to check on your progress? If you need bloodwork/x-rays/etc does your family doctor personally see to the results and give them to you in the same day? I'd also like to add that I wish Ms. Johnson had asked what regulations ARE in place regarding prescription medication. In Ontario, we are not allowed to prescribe any medication where a veterinary-client-patient relationship does not exist. This makes 'shopping around' much more difficult. Second, we are obligated to recommend medication that is labelled (therefore proven safe and effective) for animal use. So even though Metcam and Meloxicam are the same pharmaceutical, one is on-label and one is off-label. This means that if your pet reacts adversely to the medication, the drug company will have no obligation to assist with treatment. Ultimately your veterinarian is responsible for everything he/she prescribes, regardless of outcome. Prescribing off-label medication takes more time, and involves more risk for everyone. It is a fortunate thing indeed that veterinarians do not choose their profession for the money. Luckily your pets will receive the same loving care they always have, despite the insulting treatment we sometimes are subject to. I always encourage discussion with clients and make time to answer questions. I am certain all your veterinarians will too - I would only ask you treat these individuals with the respect they have earned. I am still waiting for the CBC and Ms. Johnson to defend their reprehensible report. Posted by: Disappointed DVM | Nov 30, 07 11:26 PM

As the son of two doctors with more than 20 doctors in my extended family, I'm well aware of the real costs of health care. Public health care, which I strongly support, has obscured how Canadians view the cost of health care. If, like the US, we had to pay for medical procedures, it would quickly be reveal how relatively cheap veterinary care is in comparison. Veterinary care is private and market forces drive prices. This reporter failed to acknowledge that a fee guide for each of the regions is provided by the veterinary provincial bodies. As a consumer, when I buy drugs from my veterinarian I am not solely paying for the product. I'm paying for the vet. to stock a drug that he may use rarely, but is the best and most efficacious drug for my pet. I'm paying for his specialized knowledge in his prescription which combines medical and pharmacological knowledge that due to the combined role of vets exceeds medical doctors. These are some of the benefits that go in to the cost. Further, besides being one of the lowest paid professions, it is a specialized profession that is undervalued by society. Veterinarians play a huge role in public health care--protecting food safety, monitoring zoonotic diseases, etc. Luckily, most of the times these unseen duties are not apparent due to the hard work of vets. Too often we see only one side of the story. The mark of good reporting is portraying all the dimensions of a story and allowing an informed viewer to make their own decision. Based on this standard, this piece doesn't stand up. Please work harder CBC. Canadians pay for your existence, please strive to better than Fox. Posted by: Ronan Eustace | Nov 30, 07 11:30 PM

To answer the question about the conference, it was the Canwest Veterinary Conference. It has several sponsors, including drug companies, however veterinarians pay approximately $500 for the 3 days, or $200 per day to attend. This does not include hotel rooms of course, and the implication that 600 veterinarians were all cozied up in the Banff Springs Hotel is laughable. I did not attend this particular conference, however typically buses transport attendees from neighbouring (and usually less expensive) hotels. Posted by: Disappointed DVM pt2 | Nov 30, 07 11:43 PM

I hope Erica Johnson and all that are associated with this program do it all for free and the love of their jobs. I hope they don't need money to live and can get by on the generosity of others. Maybe we should live in a society where money does not matter and one can barter for goods and services. Posted by: Free Society | Nov 30, 07 11:56 PM

First of, I am not a veterinarian. A few points to mention: Prescribing any medication to an animal requires extensive knowledge of internal medicine, physiology, pharmacology among other aspects of medicine. The comments made by lay people who believe that the pharmacists will be able to provide quality medical advice are grossly misled. This is due to the fact that no one is trained to give this advice except your veterinarian. It is not as simple as just writing down the words for the script. There is a huge issue not mentioned: LIABILITY. Veterinarians are liable for your pet's ultimate health, thus prescribing medications is a serious issue. This is the reason why human medical doctors do not prescribe meds for animals and vice versus. second point: everyone keeps mentioneing the 300% markup. This may be one veterinary clinic among 100. I do agree that a level markup should be made, however to lump all 'vets as gougers' is highly interpretative and unfair. third: to all people who imply that diagnostic tests are outrageous, I suggest you look at human medical costs associated in the United States. Have you never been surprised at the cost quoted for 'hip surgery or heart surgery' in the health insurance commercials. This is because we as Canadians have a skewed view on what health care actually costs. There is a cost for equipment, facility, professionals and staff who run this. I do think this episode has the potential for a positive outcome: the opening of eyes to our human health system and costs. 'Vets', otherwise known as veterinarians, are professionals who are as highly trained as dentists, or general practitioners. We should not be questioning their diagnostic skills and decisions on which drugs they choose to prescribe. If it was easy, then every pet owner would diagnose their own pet, a surely impossible feat. Posted by: Brad | Dec 1, 07 12:40 AM

I would like to say that I have always had good doctors for my pets on Vancouver island. I have never found even one who did not put my animals first over money. If I did not have the money at the time they let me pay it off. These men and women work hard for what they do and not enough people say thanks. Posted by: kellie | Dec 1, 07 12:38 PM

This report was not realistic. How do people think that vets afford to stay in business? Until we are willing to have some kind of government health care for pets, we are going to have to pay a marked up fee for animal health care. When you go to the Brick and buy a coffee table for $1000, do you think the Brick paid $1000 for that table? Or did they mark it up from the wholesaler (who marked it up before selling it to the Brick). When you buy a Starbucks coffee, do you think it cost Starbucks $5 for the coffee grounds and water? And yet people don't think twice about paying these fees. A clinic has costs they have to cover, such as rent/hydro/phone, wages for employees, veterinary yearly fees/dues, as well as their own houses, cars, etc. like everyone else. If they were giving a small mark up of something like 5% (unheard of in ANY OTHER INDUSTRY!) they would simply not be able to function and would go out of business. Of course, there will always be exceptions to the rule - I'm sure there are vets out there that gouge people, just like there are in ANY other industry - but I think these people are the minority. Posted by: Prefer not to say | Dec 1, 07 02:27 PM

Good critical reporting, thank you. What I want to know is whether vets have to take seminars on ethics or not. Free competition in the free market place is what I can live with, but markups of hundreds of percent and the reluctance to be open about them is where I draw the line: that's just greed and has nothing to do with free enterprise as the chair of the vets' association would have it. Let me translate what he said in essence: fellow vets, there are no regulations to inform pet owners about our unethical markups, so back to the trough we go, happy gouging to everyone. Posted by: stephan | Dec 1, 07 04:11 PM

When I bought my min-pin, it came with half a tablet of a worm medicine, called "Drontal" which I was instructed to give to the puppy in a week's time. When It came time to do this, I discovered that I had lost the 1/2-tablet. Accordingly, I went to a local vet and asked him to supply the appropriate 1/2-tablet which he did. Price was just over $10.00 for the half-tab. I thought I should have some of the medicine in case of a recurrence of the problem;I checked for "Drontal" on the internet and found it at Canadavet.com, in Vancouver. I ordered 5 tablets at $1.95 each! I also bought a supply of Advantage, priced at 25.95. Shipping was free for orders over $35.00. Posted by: Tracy Walker | Dec 1, 07 04:20 PM

I am not a vet but I do sympathize with them. My sister-in-law is a vet and she works her butt off. I agree with the BC vet assoc rep who said it is a capitalist society. However, I think consumers also have the right to be informed. To that end, I wonder why there aren't websites posting pet med prices? While I agree with the association rep that a customer does not have the right to know a business's mark-up, he does have the right to comparison shop. Isn't that also part of capitalism? When I drive past a busy intersection looking for gas, I can darn well figure in 5 seconds who sells the cheapest! I could care less what the mark-up is for Shell or Esso or PetroCan; all I care to know is their prices. Likewise for pet meds. The rep pretended to respect pet owners by saying he had more faith in the consumer re: knowledge; frankly, he's full of crap and he knows it. What has he done to make sure a BC pet owner can go on the internet and compare med prices? One last comment: pharmacies should be careful selling human meds for pets. I'm sure there've been a few cases where a pet-owner bought a med at a pharmacy and mis-administered the dosage. I don't blame the pharmacist, what does he know about animals, right? But I'm sure some pet-owner some day will accidentally kill their pet with the wrong med dose, blame the pharmacist, and sue him. That'll be the end of this so-called cheap pet medicine. Posted by: Ed | Dec 1, 07 04:25 PM

Your story was right on the (vet's) money. They have replaced lawyers as the professional pariahs of society. You exposed them for what most of them really are and judging by all their whiny comments from them here, you hit a raw nerve. The truth hurts doesn't it? Well done. Posted by: The Savvy Boomer | Dec 1, 07 05:18 PM

This show is so one sided that it makes all veterinarians and their businesses look like the bad guys. You forgot to mention the extra costs associated with buying and dispensing drugs. Not once did you mention that most of the drugs purchased are done so through a company that obtains the drugs from a drug company. Pet meds aren't purchased directly from a drug company, thus prices vary depending on the company the meds are purchased from. There are more factors that needed to be considered. For example, the person ordering the drugs, the delivery of the drugs to the veterinarian (shipping fees) and the person selling the meds to the client. The only reason this show could take such a dramatic impact is the fact that it is in Canada. The US would not even consider making a show like this, because unlike Canadians, they know how much health care costs. I think this show is biased and very poorly researched. Next you're gonna tell me that the gas station is charging too much for gas. It's a business. Markups are a must in order to survive. Posted by: Gloria | Dec 1, 07 05:33 PM

Well ....thanks to the CBC , they have uncovered what I feel is an area that is overlooked - Vets or at least the ones that I have had the luck to meet, is when our dog or cat was really sick, here they are seeming to be caring. Until we get the bill for the stay for our loving pet: over $ 1500 for numerous test on our chihuaua dog. Then 2 days later our little dog dies. I think VETs only care about profit and not about the animal you take to them. All they want to do is run as many tests as possible. In the end they know what is wrong with your animal, but they just want to make as much money as possible. Posted by: Gerry | Dec 1, 07 08:12 PM

Well, this kind of monopoly, rip off and gouging are nothing new to 'human' consuming products (I guess we have to live with it for a while) I will just brand a cheaper brand of toilet paper and I won't die from it. But it's shock when I watch the show regarding pet meds. And it's different from human products, because sometimes pets need to be put down because the owner can't afford it. It's life and death. And I feel very mad and upset about this. Yeah, I know everyone needs to earn a living, but do people need to rip off pet owners, or sacrifice animal lives, to earn a living? I wonder how some vets feel, when a pet needs to be put down because the owner really can't afford it. I think we should set up a Non-Profit Pet Owner Consumer Rights Associations of BC. Posted by: E C | Dec 1, 07 08:20 PM

Ms. Johnson and her cat visited two of my former vet clinics in the story. One, in Vancouver, offered me a human prescription for my dog's medication and it saved me a bundle. I didn't realize how exceptional it was at the time but I did appreciate it. When I moved to another city in the Lower Mainland I tried a different vet but left after awhile as I suspected I was being over-charged hundreds of dollars for drugs and treatment. I wouldn't be surprised if the mark-up at the upper end of the drug price test came from this vet. After watching this show I will never again pay for an expensive treatment without comparing prices. It's frustrating that there aren't better fee and drug price guidelines for vets to follow. I consider myself an informed consumer but I was not aware that there was such a discrepancy in price. Posted by: Anne | Dec 1, 07 08:30 PM

I volunteer at my local animal shelter and I see too often how vets hide behind an image of compassion and understanding when really, all they’re thinking about is reaching their financial goal of the month!. The few good vets are squashed by the majority. How convenient to say that it’s a business and it’s up to the consumer to do all the work not to get ripped off. Posted by: Miguel | Dec 1, 07 08:57 PM

Your show is absolutely amazing! How about not being so one sided! All you're doing is making it seem like vets are out to gouge peoples' pockets! Really, if you ever spent a week at a vet hospital you would change your tune! Yes it can seem expensive but putting your "cute little edits" in there are a really nice touch. How one person said their vet is putting a new addition on their house...how do you know they don't have investments or other sources of income because I can tell you more often than not vets do not make a lot of money. They are in debt so far above their heads they can't see daylight. I have a great idea for your show. How about you tell everyone to sell everything at wholesale. Or what do you think is fair? 10%? Then no company will be able to afford to have employees and our government can pay for EI or welfare for everyone. The only thing I agree on is the range is prices but you remember the cost in living in those places as well. Posted by: Kim Latimer, RVT | Dec 1, 07 10:59 PM

The 3 year rabies vaccine is available across Canada. Problem is when people travel with pets. The requirement for border crossing is that the animal is vaccinated for rabies within the previous 12 months. Ontario has rabies as endemic: many more cases per year both in wild animals and livestock as well as cats/dogs. Sometimes annual vaccines are about protecting from disease, not lining the pocketbook. Dental work: it is expensive because the animal has to be under general anesthesia, on an IV and a veterinarian plus one or two AHT's involved in scaling/polishing, extractions, charting, monitoring. Takes time, expertise and a lot of gas anesthetic and 02. How much would dentist charge for that? There are fee guides in each province. I do not know about the USA or UK. There is pet health insurance. My question to Erica is: while you were noting the fancy surroundings at the vet convention and that pharmaceutical companies were supplying free wine/cheese....did you ask how many vets stayed at the hotel? The convention is there. That doesn't mean the vets stayed there. I can't afford an insulin pump for my child because it is not covered under any gov't plan. They are $5,000 -$6,000. Why don't companies supply medical equipment at cost? I agree that a standard markup should be in place, but don't crucify veterinarians for attending a convention. Food is a necessity - so why don't grocery stores supply food at cost - don't they care about people? Posted by: Sandy | Dec 1, 07 11:25 PM

After viewing your show on pet medications I was wondering, has the CBC recently gone out and hired production staff from Fox News recently? The "reporting" shown was worthy of that network's tactics. I've watched Marketplace for years and relied on the information it provided, but after viewing your show on pet medications I have I will taking anything the show produces in the future with a pound of salt. This show on pet medications was biased and, as other viewers have already pointed out, inaccurate in some instances. In all my years of pet ownership, I have yet to meet a rich vet. I have, however, met many professionals who are passionate about their work. I have also had vets who have cut surgery charges in half, waived call fees or office visit charges and who have absorbed the expense of specialized blood work. I have had vets and vet techs cry along with me when it has been time to euthanize a pet. Shame on Marketplace for maligning this profession. Posted by: Jill Marks | Dec 2, 07 08:54 AM

If there is a pet heaven my Vet will be going there to be looked after by all his patients! For the last many years we (our animals, my wife and myself) have benefited from a caring Vet who has worked with us to find the least expensive medical therapies available for "the kids". We always knew that there was a considerable mark-up on Animal Medications. Your segment highlighted how severe in many cases that mark-up may be. Both my wife and I support the Vet's need to maintain a profit in order to stay in business (it is after all a business), however, we do not support any Veterinarian's perceived need for a new BMW at pet owner's expense. Thankfully, Dr. Robb, our Vet, has provided excellent care to all our pets and has written RXs for meds at the pharmacy(human) or whatever source is most affordable. And no, he does not drive a BMW. It is our hope that programs such as yours will encourage more Doctors of Veterinary Medicine to follow the good example. Posted by: Charles Dickson | Dec 2, 07 09:44 AM

My dog ate 3 pieces of a chocolate bar (mostly wafer) and I was told by the vet over the phone from the vet to induce vomiting. After an unsuccessful attempt at this, I was then told to bring the dog in immediately. The vet knew that the chocolate bar was mostly wafer but still said my dog needed to vomit it up. He injected something into my dog and then he vomited. I was at the vet for no more than 5 minutes and charged $159.00! I was later told by another vet that I was misled and robbed! Posted by: bonnie | Dec 2, 07 11:46 AM

There is more to this story. The reason the 13 year old cat is faced with the medications for diabetes and thyroid are a direct result of an improper diet -- a diet that most veterinarians push. You can't tell me that vets do not have enough education to know that an oblique carnivore such as a cat, should not be on a diet of primarily cooked grains! The result of a lifetime of eating commercial cat foods, even those recommended by the veterinary establishment, is disease. Avoid the vet all together. . .feed raw meat. Posted by: Denise Hutchinson | Dec 2, 07 12:35 PM

It's sad how people who are in trusted positions take advantage of the public. This is pure greed on the part of vets. It seems that rather to go into the profession to be a healer of animals, many people are becoming vets because of greed. There is an arrogance also when vets equate or compare themselves to human doctors. Shame on you for taking advantage of pet owners who have sick pets. Your show revealed that poor ethics exist all the way to the governing bodies. Posted by: Ian King | Dec 2, 07 12:35 PM

After watching your program concerning prescriptions for animals, plus reading through the comments of others.. there is very little I could add. The consensus certainly seems to be that you got it wrong on this topic. I certainly hope that the reporters, researchers and journalists that played a part of this report were not overpaid for their useless, bias, garbage in the program. I have 8 dogs and rely on my wonderful veterinarian for their health needs. He/she is there for me whenever I need them, just a phone call away. I wish that the public health system could make the same claim. I would recommend to anyone looking for a good veterinarian to indeed do their research and call and ask questions as to the costs and prices of the service. But, do keep in mind that the price does not always reflect the value of the service, and you may only get what you pay for. Posted by: C. Handley | Dec 2, 07 12:38 PM

This story was very instructive as to the consequences of allowing private enterprise principles to determine the quality of health care. Yes, this was about pet health care, but the same exploitation and disregard for quality of life would occur if we privatized our public health care system. Just read the frequent New York Times articles on how badly the US private sector system works, whether it is in primary care or nursing homes. There is no such thing as a free market in health care. We pay for it in many ways with our wealth and our health. Don't believe the free market fanatics. Don't let it happen here. Posted by: Carlo Marantz | Dec 2, 07 12:40 PM

Pet insurance is now available. How much money will those insurance companies reimburse to their policyholders? Will companies offering pet insurance restrict pet owners to purchasing their pets' prescriptions from pharmacies? Posted by: Andrew Rustad | Dec 2, 07 12:40 PM

I think the real question here is, if people love their animals like they are their children, and people can adopt human children, then why can't animals be "adopted" so that they are considered a dependent and their medical expenses be covered under our own health care system? That way the veterinarians, who have a medical degree, could also get government assistance just like the "real doctors" do. I don't like the fact that veterinarian clinics are considered a "business" instead of a clinic. I also don't agree with the fact that when I go for a veterinary consult, that my vet does not give me accurate quotes on how much a surgery is going to cost - case in point - I had my two dogs in for a consult on teeth cleaning, and the cost was going to be between $400-1400 dollars. Why are they not able to give accurate quotes? Posted by: Stacy | Dec 2, 07 12:43 PM

Dentists and doctors, lawyers and podiatrists, beware- you're next in this program. You better prepare some good statements on why YOU don't systematically rip off your clients. Of course, many people have insurance against medical fees for themselves and I can only suggest that pet owners seek and take out insurance against veterinary medical fees, too. This is a cheap and convenient way of being prepared for unexpected vet bills. To end this comment, I would like to say that any discussion on professional fees and prices is welcome, but not to the point of extreme single-mindedness. Viewers may feel outraged at some of the prices charged by a minority of veterinarians, however I am confident that even after watching this program, the vast majority of the pet owning public recognizes veterinary clinics and offices for what they usually are- caring professional pet health providers that offer great value for money and a whole lot of compassion. Posted by: Andreas Brieger, part 5 | Dec 2, 07 12:48 PM

I agree that this story is one-sided, but it's great to get people thinking nonetheless. I love reading the veterinarians complaining that because they don't make nearly as much as "human" doctors, that they must do it for the love of the animals. I tend to disagree. I loved my old vet, who has since retired, because it was obvious he loved the animals. Now every veterinarian I go to seems cold and uncaring and charges considerably more than my old vet. It makes me angry that veterinarians complain about their paycheques. I'd like to see what the statistics are between medical malpractice suits against vets and those of "human" doctors are and what each pays for malpractice insurance. There's a reason why "human" doctors get paid more, because they are forced to be more accountable for their actions when treating their patients. Who knows how many animals have died or suffered needlessly because of their quality (or lack of) treatment. Posted by: Stacy | Dec 2, 07 01:32 PM

I have worked in the Veterinary Profession for 10 years and I am very proud of what I do. Not speaking on behalf of every veterinarian, because as like in any profession, Journalism included, there are good and not so good people. The veterinary profession is one of caring and compassion, and unfortunately in order for the veterinarian and their staff to offer the best service, there has to be a profit made. I have spent a great deal of time sitting beside an animal who is in a great deal of pain and suffering, knowing that I am very limited in what I can do for them for many reasons. All I can do is sit with them and comfort them. As we often sit and comfort their owners because we know that there is just simply nothing more that can be done, even with all the money in the world. Then as the next family comes in with a sick pet that was so close to the child they just lost, are we thinking of the money? NO. We are thinking how can we help this animal in order to help this family somehow keep a piece of their child close to their hearts. I can speak for myself and for so many when I say that in these cases if we could do this for no cost at all, we would. Our days are filled with many heartbreaks, and many tears and at the end of it all has the thought of profit ever entered into it? NO. Again this is not the same for all veterinarians and their staff, but for your show to portray that we are all gougers without compassion is extremely disturbing. In my 10 years of experience, if all businesses and professions and every day people had the kindness and selflessness that I have seen in so many of my co-workers, without the need for the almighty dollar, this world would be a much better place for all of us to live in, two and four legged alike. If you as journalists can find this kindness and selflessness somewhere in your hearts, maybe these are the kind if things you need to be reporting. Posted by: Mary | Dec 2, 07 01:34 PM

The comments of Peter Weinstein - who gave up his Veterinary practice to go on the Convention Circuit in order to demonstrate how to elicit even more funds from the pockets of clients - says it all! Not to mention the unbelievably condescending attitude towards the public of the spokesman for the Veterinary Association of B.C. - who I am certain will have embarrassed many of his members. I am indeed fortunate to have a wonderful vet who does give me prescriptions from time to time, in order that I can purchase the generic equivalent from the pharmacy for my giant breed dogs for whom medication costs can be prohibitive, because of their size. Well done, Marketplace! Posted by: G. S. | Dec 2, 07 01:37 PM

Thanks for your shows--we view as many as possible, and have put much of what we've learned to good use. The piece on Veterinary Medication Pricing was interesting and informative, plus reasonably balanced--until the interview with the Veterinarian Association Rep. occurred. That's when my blood started to boil! The attitude displayed by that individual, in my opinion, was extremely arrogant and completely self serving. He left me with an impression that his view of any questions asked by the show host were annoying, irrelevant, and totally unworthy of his time. Furthermore, his responses sent a clear message that high cost for pet medications were of no concern to him; that if clients "didn't like it"; or "costs were so prohibitive clients had to put their pet down"; etc., it was just "too darn bad--they shouldn't have adopted a pet in the first place!" That individual marginalized the issue in a very callous and insensitive manner. I would hope his attitude isn't an indication on how the Veterinary Profession as a whole feels about its customers these days! Even though your piece dealt solely with Veterinary Medicine, could his attitude be indicative of how health care, in general, seems to be moving more towards greed than caring? Posted by: Bill Fellows, Lakeshore, ON. | Dec 2, 07 01:37 PM

In addition to the insightful and fair comments I have read from veterinarians as well as support staff and pet owners, I would like to add this. This debate has brought out a double standard when it comes to viewing animals as well as veterinarians in our society. On the one hand, most people who own animals consider them as part of the family and want them to be treated with the same attention as any of their loved ones. This is what veterinarians (NOT "vets") are trained to do, it is their calling as well as their professional responsibility. On the other hand, when it comes to the cost of treating animals, the often very high - but not unjustified - costs of treatment might cause people to turn around and refer to the animal as "just a cat" or "just a dog." But you cannot have it both ways, and you cannot accuse the same veterinarian who cares for your animal the way a physician cares for your loved one, of turning a money-grabber when the cost of treatment becomes high. (Consider how much it would cost for a person to receive treatment for a serious illness - and we rarely do, because we do not foot the bill ourselves.) As for the money-making motivation that allegedly drives veterinarians, consider this. Would it not be easier for us to study and practice dentistry, a profession that is at least as well-paid yet requires the study of one organ system, never mind just one species? :-) Posted by: Veronica, veterinary student | Dec 2, 07 02:55 PM

I'd like to comment to the arrogant and inappropriate president of the BC Veterinary Association that all retailers must post the cost of their goods for sale so that the consumers have the opportunity to shop elsewhere if they choose. Can you imagine the uproar if shoppers were to fill their carts up and discover that cost of their goods AFTER they'd paid for them? If Veterinarians are going to treat themselves as retailers then they must inform their customers of the prices they intend to charge BEFORE they charge them, not at the till. Posted by: Judy Osburn | Dec 2, 07 07:57 PM

My cat was prescribed Flagyl. Having been prescribed this myself in the past I was shocked at what the vet charged because I know this is a very inexpensive drug in human form. The vet charged me $33.80 for 60x50 mg pills inclusive of a dispensing fee which I later found was in the $13 range, and which the vet said was comparable to the pharmacy's. After checking with the pharmacy, next time I asked the vet to give me a prescription, the pharmacy only carries 250mg pills but 15 of them cost $9.95 including dispensing fee of $8.60. So basically the vet charged $20.50 for 3000 mg of actual drug, while the pharmacy charged $1.35 for 3750 mgs. I have to cut the human sized ones up but the cost differential made it clear that vets are ripping us off in BC. My cat also takes prednisolone - which doesn't come in low enough doses in human form (I'm told). On your program I noted that they charge about $19 for 20 5mg pills in the UK. My vet charged me $24 for 30 - dispensing fee unknown. Since my cat is on these for the long term I also asked my vet why they were only being dispensed in blocks of 30 and so they gave me 60. Another money grab is to get us in more often to get prescription refills. I think it's time pet owners, pet insurance plans and government banded together to put a stop to the gouging that is going on. Some people have credit available to them when their pets are sick (but credit has it's limits), but I'm sure there are people who have to put their pets down because they can't afford the inflated cost of medications, but wouldn't have to if the the medications were the same price as people meds. Posted by: Belinda | Dec 3, 07 12:14 AM

After watching this show in its entirety I was just wondering about a few things. I was wondering how the woman with 13 cats could afford her mortgage and property taxes on her beautiful home if she was having difficulty with her vet bills? I was wondering how stressful it was for a geriatric, diabetic cat to be carted around in a carrier for what I assumed was at least a full day? I was wondering if Erica Johnson was flown business or economy class when she went to London for the week to provide a 3 minute segment on the show? I was wondering why the pharmacists are so eager to help the consumer by providing meds at a truly cheaper cost and how much profit they were hoping to make(something tells me it's not just altruism)? I was wondering why so many people think our pets are not luxuries? I was wondering why people don't get as upset over prices at the supermarket/restaurants/movies/clothing stores/everywhere else? Even though this was very poor reporting if it brings awareness to the public I suppose it has not gone to waste. I don't think the veterinary profession needs to worry. Good practitioners will continue to practice well and bad practitioners will go on doing their thing. The client will either choose to stay or go and some may be more vocal about it than others. If you don't like it, go somewhere else - if you are happy well good on you for finding a place and professional you can trust! Posted by: KN | Dec 3, 07 01:28 PM

This piece of journalism was atrocious. I have read every comment above and am shocked that although every pet lover seems to be greatly concerned regarding costs of veterinary medicine, why have only 5 of you mentioned pet insurance? 40% of pets in the UK are insured and yet only 1% in Canada have some form of pet insurance. Do your research and be prepared. If we had to prepare for our own healthcare costs, we would. Why not do the same for your beloved furry family members? Posted by: Pet Lover | Dec 3, 07 02:24 PM

I have been enjoying Market Place for years and watched the show on vet prices with great interest. For the last 6 years, I have been paying $160.00 for a prescription of 200 tapazol pills which lasted my cat approx 3 months. Thank you for this story. I feel this is my reward for being a loyal viewer of your program. The next time I will ask for a prescription and have it filled at the pharmacy. Thanks again. Posted by: Dorothy Barker | Dec 3, 07 04:44 PM

I am absolutely appalled with this newscast. This was one of the poorest representations of journalism I have ever seen. First of all, VETERINARIANS go through an intense 4 year program, just like human doctors, and have to take board exams, just like human doctors, but unlike human doctors, veterinarians have to know about MORE THAN ONE SPECIES. Veterinarians are highly trained, motivated, and compassionate people. You made absolutely no reference to the training it involves to become a DOCTOR OF VETERINARY MEDICINE. Take some time to research that, please, and maybe you will have a little bit more respect for them. Can you please think back to the time when you suspected your cat was sick and you took her to the veterinarian and he or she diagnosed your cat with diabetes and hyperthyroidism? Didn't you think that maybe it took some intelligence and special training to come to that diagnosis? Or, do you think you should have maybe researched her symptoms online and just figured it out for yourself? In addition, it was extremely inappropriate to make the suggestion that it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the veterinarian to treat someone's animal for free because the OWNER does not have the money to pay the bill. EXCUSE ME?!?! How is it not the owner's responsibility to pay this bill? If you own an animal, and value that animal, it is your responsibility. Now, I know many many veterinarians and veterinary staff who have adopted animals that people surrendered because the owners could not afford the cost of treatment for the animal. THAT is the reality. Veterinarians are NOT euthanizing animals haphazardly because of a bill. How dare you make that statement. You should be ashamed of yourself. Posted by: L. Sklena | Dec 3, 07 04:53 PM

Me thinks these DVM's protest too loudly !! How sad that they have to sit in a lovely hotel convention and listen to the advice ( well meaning of course ) of one Peter Weinstein ( charming man ). Instructions on how to reach " into our wallets " is what it's all about !! One sided ...BALONEY !! Huge thanks to Marketplace ! I also experienced the the sadness of an epileptic 3 year old Cocker who seized constantly. If he seized on a weekend a visit to the emergency hospital was often required and payment was due up front. The emergency "doctor" always followed up with by stating that our dog was "frying up" on the inside. Medication after one year finally took its toll and we had to euthanize. Neither our vet nor the emergency people would hear of our naturopathic medicine route. Final cost over almost 1 year was well over $ 4000.00. Don't get me started about Pet Insurance ... what a scam ! Posted by: G.S | Dec 3, 07 05:09 PM

Overall, I think this was a good piece of journalism, and I strongly disagree with many of the postings here. You can't compare a veterinary clinic's markups to those of Future Shop or the corner convenience store. Vets are supposedly professionals, and charge primarily for their TIME... and accompanying knowledge, expertise and requisite medical equipment. Looking over my vet bills over the past few years, here in Montreal they're charging between $200/hr (for a "GP" vet who does three $65 checkups in one hour) and $400/hr (for surgery). These rates certainly pay for salaries, equipment, and other overhead costs. Adding exorbitant markups to drug costs is clearly a way to make an extra $10,000 a year with no effort at all, and at the expense of the pet owners. I've been fortunate enough to find a vet who sells medication for chronic conditions (like diabetes) with an under-10% markup, because she understands that her clients will do anything to keep their beloved companions comfortable and healthy. No true professional could ever take advantage of such a situation just to make some extra money. If your vet is overcharging you for drugs, the real question to ask yourself is "can I really trust this vet with my animal's health, when I know that he's strongly motivated to make easy money?" Posted by: Julian Berdych | Dec 3, 07 05:54 PM

If the market for veterinary medication goes to the pharmacists, the fees for the veterinary services will get higher, and it will be the client that will be the big loser. Posted by: marie | Dec 3, 07 07:22 PM

When I saw this episode I was very surprised at how easily we can get our prices "fixed" by the very people that we are suppose to trust. That one particular part of the episode where the vets get trained to do this! My god, stuff like that should be illegal. I very shocked and disappointed with the vets and people for approving this, and defending it! Posted by: Alice Dubois | Dec 3, 07 09:26 PM

When my dog was ill I had a wonderful vet, Dr. Wanda Burbridge, she did the least number of tests and I was able to fill the prescriptions, up to 4 different ones, pediatric human drugs, at the human pharmacy - I saved hundreds of dollars. Posted by: Audie | Dec 3, 07 09:42 PM

It isn't only the prescriptions which seem to escalate. Yesterday I had to have my 18 yr old, weak and gaunt cat euthanized. The receptionist insisted that they are required to do a physical exam first (an extra $52.50) added to the bill of $82.69 It was a take it or leave it attitude. The cat was obviously on her last legs and in pain. Doesn't the owner determine what happens to their pet, not the vet? Posted by: Maureen Ingram | Dec 4, 07 03:39 PM

Like many Canadians, I watched the Marketplace segment on veterinarians with great interest. As the President and CEO of Pethealth, Canada's largest provider of pet insurance and as a passionate pet owner -- with four dogs and two cats -- let me make the following comments. In the first place, the Marketplace segment suggests that IF veterinarians are overcharging for pet pharma, they are also overcharging for their other services. This is simply not the case. IF veterinarians are inclined to increase the margins on their commoditized services, including pet pharmacy, it's because they actually have more difficulty charging the full cost of their higher end non-commoditized services, including some of the amazing surgical procedures that are now possible. Our experience shows that in communities across Canada, veterinarians tend to charge at a discount than the fees quoted in the Veterinarian Association Fee Guides that are now employed in most provinces. Furthermore, our own insurance actuarial data demonstrates that our loss ratios have declined from 2006, despite the fact that we have not increased our premiums in 2007. This evidence contradicts the suggestions made in the Marketplace segment. Finally the Marketplace story was very disrespectful of the veterinarian community. Veterinarians are highly skilled doctors, with years of training and board certification, who treat our pets professionally and perform highly skilled surgeries that just were not possible 5 to 7 years ago. It's not unusual for Pethealth to see claims for hip replacements, cataract surgery, even pacemaker implants, at a fraction of the cost of what similar medical services are provided in the human healthcare field. We should remember that veterinarians are highly sensitive to the needs of our pets, as well as the needs of those of us who view our dogs and cats as not just companion animals, but as members of our family. Mark Warren President and CEO Pethealth inc. Posted by: Mark Warren, President and CEO, Pethealth Inc. | Dec 4, 07 09:30 PM

I love the CBC, but this show hit me where it hurts. I work for a veterinary clinic as the clinic manager, and I feel that this was an unfair, biased, and hurtful episode. I left a well-paying job to work with animals and I do not regret my choice, but I fully resent the implication that the majority of DVMs are working for money. What a joke. If people could see the amount of money that their veterinarian and staff take home they would be shocked. I fear this will drive more owners to go to "Google University" rather than seek the advice and treatment of a veterinarian. Why do you think products such as flea control and dewormer are cheaper at a pet store? They're not the same items. Do you think they work as well? Do you think the teenager working there has nearly as much knowledge as the staff at the local veterinary clinic? I've seen flea control sold at pet stores make animals very sick. Veterinarians really should not (some governing bodies would say CAN NOT) prescribe a human drug when a drug for animals exists. This is a licensing agreement, not a money grab. My clinic is a small, 2-doctor practice. We do work with the local humane society and animal rescues, donating our time, services, and products, often times above and beyond what we can actually afford to give We're certainly not alone; lots of clinics help homeless animals, do payment plans, etc. But I guess that's not as juicy as how veterinarians are "scamming" pet owners. And for the person wondering about OHIP for animals...there are pet insurance companies in Canada that offer different levels of coverage for accidents and/or illnesses. Even though I work for a veterinarian, both of my dogs have policies. Posted by: Laurie Geenen | Dec 5, 07 12:42 AM

Worse than drug mark-up, these so-called 'doctors' have no training in surgery but do thousands of surgeries on your pets. Has your pet died after a surgery? Had a surgery which crippled it, or a surgery which 'didn't turn out"? Ask some questions. Your local vet is pretty much surgery un-trained and is less regulated than a research lab. Posted by: Ricky | Dec 5, 07 11:46 AM

I say congratulations on exposing yet another "big business" gouging people like dentists, doctors, big pharma etc. When will people wake up and realize what's happening? It's even sadder when it's our love for our pets that's being used to line some pockets. Our guinea pig was being starved to death because the vet said it was an infection in his mouth and prescribed an antibiotic. A week later we brought him back only to find out the guinea pig had teeth growing sideways and couldn't chew! This vet didn't even BOTHER to look in his mouth the first time and charged us for the entire two visits, meds, examination etc. and the cost of having him put down after all that. I don't believe they are all that heartless but I know if we ever got another pet, I would NOT take it to a vet. Posted by: Marie | Dec 5, 07 06:59 PM

It's unfortunate that these shows breed misinformation in the form of the responses, where part-truths and part-falsehoods are put forward leading to further incorrect public info. General musings on the messages: I wonder how much the politicians who made all the regulatory controls, gave themselves as an annual raise, and what THEY make? Don't forget to include THEM in your cross-studies (which are not relevant; you can't compare the different professions in a statistically significant way). Any professional is expected to be in "lifelong learning" in order to remain competent. This involves seminars, which are anything but holidays. If they don't adhere to standards of practice, they won't remain licensed. "Pharmacies don't know about animals and can't counsel about them" (etc.) -- wrong. They are expected to be knowledgeable about any drugs they sell, are trained in pharmacology (effect of drugs on disease states), and if they sell such species' drugs, are expected to know about what they are selling WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THEIR PROFESSION. They don't prescribe. "Counselling" in certain provinces is mandatory with prescriptions, and can result in sanctions if not done. Molly -- pharmacists DO know how drugs work; they have to in order to practice to set standards. The prescriber is also part of the patient care process (they issue the prescription). It is insulting to suggest they "don't know pets"; some who specialize in veterinary prescriptions employ veterinarians in-house. And of course they know how to administer the drugs they sell! There's a lot more to practicing pharmacy and being trained as one; learn first. Posted by: Been Around The Block 1 | Dec 6, 07 02:21 AM

Professionals have licensing bodies, and if you have a problem with one, you can complain to the provincial body for investigation into the complaint. ALL PROFESSIONS have good and bad apples. The bad ones make newsworthy stories, selling ratings and papers. Get used to it; I'm not sure what the markup is on the cable rates for me to be able to watch Marketplace. Last time I checked, practitioners (medical doctors, veterinarians, dentists) are expected to ASSESS a patient, DIAGNOSE the condition, and PRESCRIBE treatment. For that service, a fee is charged. It would be unethical and extremely unprofessional, for the first two to be done, but then charge an additional fee for the last. ("Yes, he has this and this disease, and needs this drug. But I charge to prescribe it..."). FLEURY -- Pharmacy 101 note here. A drug molecule is the same, whether packaged for an animal or human, if it is the same salt and dosage form. So, Amoxicillin Trihydrate is the same, whether for human or animal; they're not different. And "generic" drugs are regulated insofar as being substitutable for a brandname drug. Years of government lawmaking has seen to this, and the health professionals must abide by these laws. Something like those who think "natural" Vitamin C is better; the molecule is the molecule and the body doesn't know if it was natural, or lab synthesized when the structure is one and one only. If "human pharmacists don't know how to counsel pet owners" then they shouldn't be dispensing the prescription, but referring it to an appropriate colleague. If they try to and screw up, it's potential malpractice and misconduct. But don't say they're practicing veterinary medicine without a license; pharmacists are expected and authorized to counsel about drugs, since they are drug experts. Posted by: Been Round the Block 2 | Dec 6, 07 02:28 AM

Ontario has drug price controls in pharmacy. For elderly patients, the pharmacist can charge NO MORE THAN what he pays for the drug (cost as listed by govt), plus up to 8% of that cost, plus the set dispensing fee. Oh, and yes: they are about the only profession required to POST their dispensing fee to the public (not true for lawyers, doctors, dentists, etc.). PLEASE BEWARE OF RISKS WITH INTERNET DRUG PURCHASES FOR ANY PURPOSE (see Health Canada's website). Those who say human drugs should not be used for animals, and vice versa: the CVMA has guidelines in which it actually suggests a "flowchart" for drug use, and this includes human drugs being used for animals. Please know the whole picture before chastising one profession over another. Pharmacists do NOT make "$100,000 right out of school." And some DO have extended hours, as well as "on call" service (not just doctors). Is a "3am call for a Tapazole refill" really an emergency, whether to a doctor or pharmacy? What owner neglected to obtain more before they ran out? Will one missed/delayed dose really compromise the patient? Posted by: Been Round the Block 3 | Dec 6, 07 02:37 AM

Pet Insurance: read the fine print, and consider the cumulative premium costs. Most people don't consider it when a pet is young. And most don't cover the "consequences" later in life of something the animal had before the insurance was bought. It's pretty easy to find a reason to not honour a claim due to a "previous incident." To the Vet Student (Nov 30): better re-read the Food and Drug Regulations. "For veterinary use only" does not mean the drugs are not available to "human pharmacists" (the only kind I've ever encountered). It means that some drugs, normally requiring a prescription, don't need one if sold in a manufacturer's container labelled as such -- and pharmacists are one class of "person" entitled to purchase drugs. Penicillin is a good example (prescription for humans, not if labelled as such; see Schedule F, part I and II). You'll find this drug sold in "agricultural stores" in Ontario that are licensed under the Livestock Medicines Act -- but they're not veterinarians. "Human pharmacists have no training in the unique species..." -- also not true. Ongoing training courses are attended throughout their lives, if in that sector of practice. Those who fear-monger about getting a prescription from a pharmacist: stop it. Remember that a doctor was involved in the issuing of the prescription, and the pharmacist is a member of that 3-way team, usually speaking with the prescriber before the prescriber decides to issue the prescription! It's not like someone's walking into a pharmacy to buy the drugs over the counter (known to happen at some veterinarian offices with steroids in the past -- see case law). And contrary to your comments, pharmacists DO play a role in formulating the drug to make it palatable, and actually give this information (usually free) to veterinarians and their employees on request. Posted by: Been Round the Block 4 | Dec 6, 07 02:39 AM

And finally: let's please stop with the stressful topic of "vet" vs. "veterinarian." It's also "medical practitioner" (or physician), not doctor; and "dental surgeon" (not dentist). Don't be so touchy, it's not meant to be derogatory. It's simply faster to type "vet" (in context of veterinary medicine, not a wartime vet), than "veterinarian" every time when word counts are limited. Posted by: Been Round the Block 5` | Dec 6, 07 02:41 AM

KN: I am the owner (guardian) of the fourteen cats that you mention. What makes you think I have trouble paying my vet bills? My husband and I can well afford them. We set aside a lot of money for our animals as we know we have many with health issues. What I objected to was being OVERCHARGED for both of my cat's prescriptions. Leaving the pharmacy price sticker on was definitely NOT a smart move! Dr. Edward Morris: What makes you assume that I need to work out payment plans for my cats' care? I never asked for discounts or extra time to pay in my life. I think my feline friends are in excellent shape in view of their somewhat chequered backgrounds. We can do a lot of things ourselves, like giving fluids, which helps. We put a lot of money, time and effort into animal care and we will continue to do so. The cats are worth it! Thank you for your concern anyway. Posted by: Jean | Dec 6, 07 03:03 AM

to "Ricky"Dec 5 11:46AM who claims "vets" have no training in surgery, why I distinctly remember having a lunch hour speaker tell us all about surgery some time in my 7th year of university. He was an old farmer who took time out of his busy day of roping, wrangling and branding to teach us "vets" all about surgery. It would have been nice to have had a little more time with him, but the session had to be crammed in between other important courses like "Gouging 110" and "Price Fixing 205" Posted by: old vet | Dec 6, 07 04:44 PM

All I hear is Veterinarians being jealous for not being recognized as 'real doctors'. I'm sure the 'human doctors' are paid more money and are subsidized by the government and Canadians' health premiums. However, if veterinarians were so poor, they would not be driving Mercedes-Benz or other 'high-priced' cars. Posted by: Matthew | Dec 6, 07 05:17 PM

I watched your program with great interest. I had 3 senior pets, over 14, and wanted to provide a comfortable end to their life journey. When my 14 year old cat was diagnosed with Diabetes I was told the only option was Insulin. I researched what this would mean to her quality of life and then choose to not treat her. It was an extremely painful decision. I did not feel supported by the vet at the time. Only judged. It was not a economic decision, this time. How painful it would have been for me if it was. It raised a question - should the person prescribing the treatment be the one to profit from the sale of the drugs? I felt it is a conflict of interest. Should veterinarians be compromised by this conflict of interest? I appreciate the option to get a prescription and to purchase any future drugs for my aging dog from another vet. Thank you for enlightening me on this important issue. Posted by: L Moody | Dec 7, 07 07:09 AM

My kitten had his third shot last night. I was in the office less than 10 minutes. I was charged $40 for the visit and 28 dollars for the shot. 68$/10 minutes, I don't even dream of making that kind of money some day! This David Kurby guy sounds so cold and stubborn. I guess he gets his medication for free? Hats of to René Côté from Québec who sells pet medication from his pharmacy! Posted by: Cat lover | Dec 7, 07 08:19 AM

I am a Veterinary Hospital Manager and have been involved in the veterinary industry for over 25 years. I found this show to be one sided and inaccurate. Also, as an FYI - This weekend we held our staff's Children's Christmas party, and we hired a clown as entertainment. I have just received the clown's invoice and have discovered that a clown charges almost three times more per hour than a Veterinarian does. The clown made balloon animals and charged more than a 500% mark up on the balloons. Maybe Market Place should do a show on excessive pricing by clowns, or do you have a policy of not investigating your own kind? Posted by: Peter Solilak | Dec 7, 07 12:25 PM

I am writing to you about the smear job you performed on all vets with your program. I am the husband of a small animal vet working in a small Alberta community and I must tell you the scenario you painted of all vets marking up drugs by upwards of 400% has absolutely no bearing on my wife’s situation. You focused on large city vets with seemingly no reference to the rural parts of the country. If my wife were to charge those markups she would very soon have no business. My wife went to school for nine years. We are both in our early 40’s and only recently finished paying off her education loans. There are days during the year when my two daughters and I hardly see her during the day. She is tremendously hard working and dedicated to giving the best animal care she knows how. I guess my main objection to your program was the broad brush you painted the entire profession with. I am really hurt by the implication that vets have formed some sort of cabal gouging the public for all they are worth. If you guys knew how my wife agonizes over any increases in her fee schedule you might have thought twice before you presented your program the way you did. Probably however you would have ignored my wife’s story as that would have gone against the biased slant of your piece. Thanks so much for making my wife’s job that much harder. Posted by: pat munholland | Dec 8, 07 10:09 PM

I am very upset with the light in which veterinarians were cast in this one-sided piece of journalism. I am highly suspicious of two things: a) if only we knew how much is actually costs the medical system every time we ourselves are examined or have bloodwork (a lot of which can be not necessary) or an xray, and b) why are people not wondering about the costs of every day items. For example, a standard 100% cotton t-shirt is bought by a distributing company for $2, and yet we end up paying $20! Personally, I would feel much more comfortable knowing that my pets medications are being filled and monitored by people who actually specialize in the area! Posted by: Lynne | Dec 8, 07 11:31 PM

Next time my dog is sick, I will just let nature run its course. If he dies, that is just part of life. Posted by: Mark | Dec 9, 07 12:39 PM

Did you know that your jeans are marked up 300%? And that a pair of Levi's can vary from 35$-250$ depending on the store and time of year? Ok, your dog doesn't need jeans to live. What about Advil versus generic IB profin? That's the drug companies putting the same pill in different bottles and selling it for twice the price. I was shocked that Marketplace implied that human medications are equivalent to animal medications! They might have the same active ingredient, but the fillers can greatly alter the effect based on the patient's digestive physiology. Also, a human weighing 70 kg is certainly not taking the same dose as their 7 kg terrier. Good luck splitting that pill in 10 pieces without compromising its integrity. I was disgusted at Marketplace's depiction of the veterinary conference! Yes, it is sponsored by drug companies, yes there is shmoozing. It is the same in any profession, and it is 100% necessary. In fact it is required as continuing education for a vet to keep their practicing license! If a drug company feels that spending extra money to supply hors d'oeuvre is in their financial interest, that is their prerogative, and in no way reflects upon the professionalism of the veterinarian who is there to learn about new and better ways to treat animals. If you went to a dentist or chiropractor's convention you would find the exact same set-up. Yes, pets cost a lot of money, they also bring people a lot of joy. It is a choice that pet owners make, and most are happy to live by. Posted by: KJ | Dec 13, 07 01:16 PM

The CBC producers are definitely out of touch with the industry norms. The piece begins by condemning the CanWest Veterinary Conference. They have obviously never been to a human medical conference. All conferences are held in snazzy locations: take a look for example at where our cancer research dollars are going, to support human medical doctors who want to fly to the dead sea for a holiday: http://www.aacr.org/home/scientists/meetings--workshops/advances-in-cancer-research.aspx All conferences have events sponsored by the pharmaceutical sector. If you want to condemn the culture of medical conferences then all right, but don't blame it on the poor veterinarians. It is an illogical argument. The purpose of attending a conference is to catch up on the latest clinical developments. Think about it! As a pet owner it is in my best interest to have my veterinarian attend conferences so that they can learn of the latest drugs that can help my pet. Yeah sure the drug companies are evil, but they serve a purpose: that of producing drugs which my animal needs to live. I, as a pet owner, want my vet to know about new drugs that are coming on to the market. Posted by: kristoria | Dec 15, 07 12:33 AM

Thank You for a terrific expose on veterinary costs. I note reading the comments here that most of the negative ones are from Veterinarians. Yet, there have been numerous articles published over the years about unnecessary veterinary vaccinations for our pets. Some Veterinarian Clinics send out reminder postcards to inform the customer that "Fluffy" is due for a vaccination & to bring him/her in asap, as though this were a life & death treatment. One Veterinary Clinic I dealt with, who euthanized my cat, still sends me reminder postcards to come in for vaccinations! I know, as many of us do, because of your program, that some Veterinarians are definitely gouging their clients. Your 'Caveat emptor' on veterinary prices was right on & sincerely appreciated. Veterinary Clinics are run like human Private Clinics & the docs can charge whatever price they choose. It pays to shop around! Posted by: Andrea Timmons | Dec 16, 07 12:58 PM

I hope Mark lets nature run its course when he gets sick too. After all, what are we if not just human animals? Posted by: Kevin | Dec 17, 07 11:28 PM

Four cats and a dog can cost a lot of money in vet fees and meds. Thanks to your show I will now be looking around for a better deal. I'm like like many people who went out and acquired pets, without any thought to how much it really costs to raise and look after them. Well, hindsight is 20-20 I guess. Your story is very helpful to consumers like me who can't afford the price of pet meds. I just want a fair deal. Posted by: David | Dec 18, 07 11:05 PM

As a Canadian living in the U.S. I was embarrassed by this horrendous piece of Canadian journalism that my American friends showed to me. In my technical and public communications this would be a perfect example of extreme bias and sensationalism. No judgments by anyone should be made based on the so-called reporting. Look up the facts before you go judging these hard working Doctors. Guess what the average veterinary student debt in the US is? Over $100,000 compared to an average starting salary of just over $40,000. My parents' vet is on call 24/7 and lives in a house trailer near his clinic. If I was going to try and get into a medical type school it sounds like vet med is the place to "gouge the clients" and get rich just like the CBC claims! CBC should learn how to do real journalism, or maybe I have just been gone from Canada too long and they started working for the tabloids in my absence. Posted by: Canadian export | Dec 24, 07 11:51 PM

I was very disappointed in your program. I am currently a student with an older golden who has a lot of vet bills, but I feel that my vets are more fair than my doctors! I live in Colorado and when I had to have jaw surgery, my insurance claim was denied and I had to pay $10,000 out of pocket to have 2 mm of bone removed from my jaw. The same type of surgery for my dog would only cost about $2000-$3000. So tell me, which is the medical profession that is gouging its clients? True, there are some clinics out there that charge too much, but I also worked for a vet who charged very little and believe me, people got what they paid for. The medicine was appalling and I would never subject my animals to that. I would rather pay more and get good quality care. Rather than price shopping only to find a vet, shop the quality of care you are paying for too. I am very disappointed that such a biased, one-sided view was given. This is poor journalism. Posted by: Ashley Barnes | Dec 27, 07 03:09 PM

When my wife and I opened our kennel in the mid 80's a visit to our kennel by our local vet for yearly shots and physical was about $30 per dog. Our kennel was located in a small Ontario town and our local Veterinary Clinic had two vet's and and one support person. At some point in the late 80's the vet's stopped making kennel calls and asked that we bring the dog's into the clinic and the cost per dog for the same services was about $90. We asked - How come so much? and this is what we were told: the college has sent a message to all clinics - we have graduates that need jobs, start hiring. The question is should the universities close their doors when there is a surplus of applicants?, should doctors who have committed time and resources to fulfilling a dream to help people and their animals drive cabs because there is no room in the market place? I've never met a vet I didn't like and at the time of euthanasia I've never met a vet that didn't cry with us. What can I say? People who dedicate their lives to helping those who cannot speak for themselves are special, they deserve as a minimum to be paid a professional salary. The emotional cost to them is high. To those who have helped me in the past - Thank you, to those I have never met - Thank you and to the college who prepares the students to help us with the care and health of those who cannot speak - Thank you. Our animals are members of our families and the vet's that care for them and take our calls at ridiculous hours are our family doctors and in many cases deliver superior service to our furry loved ones than we are able to get ourselves at the people hospital. Posted by: Tim Kerst | Dec 30, 07 09:23 PM

My 12 yr old cat has been on cat insulin for just over a year. I pay $40 for it in Toronto. The vial shown in the program (size not shown) was 5ml at $9 - $22 retail? Looks like there's a markup here. Anyone know where I can get this at a lower price in downtown Toronto? I think the Humane Society here no longer offers vet services, since I remember when I first got my cat, I'd bring her there for annual checkups / shots at a reasonable cost. Not anymore. Posted by: marky | Jan 5, 08 04:24 PM

I just saw the marketplace regarding excessive veterinarian markup prices on medication. I once enjoyed Market place and now I'm completely disenchanted. Do you really think it's all so black and white? Many people have already responded clearly stating the costs of running a veterinarian HOSPITAL. When comparing Metacam honey flavoured suspension with Novo-meloxicam tablets I think that some veterinarian drugs have to be formulated to make owners' and pets' lives easier. If you are medicating a 100 lb dog with a tasty liquid that he considers a treat vs a pill that you're wrestling down your dogs throat would you pay the extra cost? I would. I worked at a veterinarian clinic that was quite reasonable with their prices and it isn't easy for the business and staff having descent prices. Often it will attract people that expect the cheapest prices, if any, with the best service and they often protest cost of services and medication. It makes it difficult to pay your staff properly for all they do and for all the complaining they endure from clients regarding the cost to own a pet, an act of free will I would like to add. I also find the term expensive quite relative depending on the person and what they believe they should have to spend. I have encountered clients from two income families complaining medication and service fees were outrageous as they walk out of the clinic lighting a smoke and drive off in their new car. Then there is the single young lady who doesn't make a peep about fees who leaves the clinic with her cat in the carrier headed for the bus stop. Posted by: JM | Jan 5, 08 05:46 PM

My pooch required 2 tplo surgeries ($7000) He now would benefit from a monthly injection of Cartrophen (calcium pentosan polysulfate). My local vet (who misdiagnosed my dog's ACL injury after 2 visits) charges more than double what I now pay for a shot of Cartrophen. Over my dog's lifetime, this might amount to approx. $3600 more profit. I have been told I cannot purchase the Cartrophen vials to administer the shots myself, and was not informed of a powdered alternative. The capsules cost $1.66 each. If the veterinary profession wants to avoid a backlash from the content of this report, then they must become proactive. With the scandals at the BCVMA, and CBC price gouging reports, a door is being presented to Canadian Veterinarians. You can either walk through willingly, or be dragged through.(like your British colleagues) You have time to build a transparent fee/drug schedule. Maybe base it on proximity to city centres, or population density,or facilities offered After all, being so well educated-a price list shouldn't be a stretch of your abilities. Posted by: anon | Jan 5, 08 07:14 PM

I note the only outraged people are the vets who have been doing whatever they want all this time without having to answer to anyone. There are some with a conscience and I have shopped around and found huge discrepancies. Word quickly spreads when you find an honest one. Posted by: laurelie campeau | Jan 5, 08 08:12 PM

I understand that veterinarians are doctors, dentists, xray techs, etc. I understand that the veterinarian's clinic doubles as animal hospital. I DON'T understand why there is such a LARGE difference in price across the country, sometimes in the same neighbourhood. Why can't we have legislation to "cap" the prices of animal medications? I'm aware that each province has a "suggestion" sheet of mark-ups etc. But why can't we cap it off? No more than 100% mark-up, and a cap on dispensing fees? No matter which animal hospital it is, there will still be competition for the lowest prices. And everyone who's ever taken economics 101 knows that competition means more customers, more profit. I know my medications are cheap, and they're generally capped at pharmacies. Why should I pay hundreds for my dog's de-worming? If I had to pay $50 for my dog's pills, instead of close to $200, maybe my dog wouldn't have to wait an extra month or two for his yearly check-up. As for that man who said "If you can't afford a pet, don't have one", I'd like to say, YOU get broken into and not get yourself a German Shepard to protect your family. Not everyone can afford an alarm system, and a dog's barking is just as effective. I wouldn't trade my dog for anything in the world, barking and all. By the way, I was NOT aware you could request a prescription. Posted by: Shannon Buckle | Jan 5, 08 08:16 PM

I saw the program this evening and for the first time, felt compelled enough to actually go to a website and see what else there was to the story. I first will say that I did read several comments posted by Vetrenarians, and agree that the respect owed to them was diminished in that the abbreviation was always used (commonplace everywhere!) and little regard was given to the education and skill level required in this field of medicine. I take great issue however, with anyone, who diminishes the value of animals/pets by way of placing their greater welfare into a Capitalistic conversation. Human life was long ago deemed to be 'above' our right to live in a Capitalistic Society....and animals' lives and welfare should be as well. To regulate Vetenarians would assist the consumer/pet owner with navigating the system at the very least. If one were forced to enter a Human Doctor's office with their loved one in tow....who they kept at home under close watch for a 3 day long weekend because they were unable to pay the emergency fee due upon entering the building, we would be OUTRAGED. Why are my pets' lives so less valued? If Veterinarians are doing proper business consistently, they ought not to have fear, should they? Regulation would only serve to validate their profession further. I know I for one, value my professional Veterinarian's accreditations and skill... sorry, I should have stated, 'After having been traumatized over a horrendous long weekend with my beloved orange Tabby, and paying exorbitant emergency bills and being charged highly inflated medications fees, I for one, value my NEW professional Veterinarian's accreditation and skill'. Shop around folks, they not only have different demeanours, they have very different views on appropriate fees. Posted by: Lauralee | Jan 5, 08 08:20 PM

I think it`s time for a shift in health care for animal beings. This one really was an eye opener for everyone who has a furry friend close to their heart. You really started a good debate. Posted by: Francine | Jan 5, 08 08:28 PM

I live in Montreal and 10 years ago, I had to buy caninsulin for my diabetic cat. One day, I was out of caninsulin and went to my vet to buy some. However, he was closed. So, I went to another vet, a few doors away, and was charged 50% less. I was shocked! The next day, I called my vet and told him that he owed me 5 years of an overcharge on the caninsulin. The vet had a fit and started screaming at me saying that he gave me rebates on other services and would not pay me the difference. That was the end of that vet because I did not have confidence in him anymore. I then called the veterinarian association and that's when they told me that vet prices are not regulated and that vets can charge whatever they wanted. So, like the British lady, I found out the real truth by mistake. However, I just learned from your show that should my current cat get a life-long sickness, I will definitely demand a prescription to fill out at my local pharmacy. Posted by: Lucie Nachaty | Jan 5, 08 10:39 PM

What an extremely one-sided view of veterinarian practices. Anybody ever ask there local clothing store how much they are marking up their inventory? Reality check - they mark up clothing in most stores at least 100%. Are some veterinarians taking advantage of pet owners? Yes. But how about the thousands who are not? Those who are making enough money to live a comfortable life, keeping their clinic doors open and providing their clients with good, caring service. Ms. Johnson, just because you were an uneducated, ignorant pet owner, with a gouging veterinarian, doesn't mean everyone is in that position. Posted by: Alison | Jan 6, 08 11:31 AM

I had mixed feelings about this episode. On one hand I was grateful for the info on how over priced some animal meds are and that some are even identical to human medications. I did not like the way they made most of the vets seem like money grubbing jerks they are not. People who go into animal medicine do so because they love animals and understand that most of the people who own pets love them as family and are willing to do what is necessary to save them. Ok, yes I did feel gouged when I was charged over $100.00 for ear drops and antibiotics only to have my darling pet rat die in my hands a few days later. How ever, the vet who did take the time to see a rat (doctors who deal with rats are hard to find, reptiles too.) really cared about the well being of my poor little rat and I am grateful to those people nor do I regret taking a $9.00 rat to see them. I like the way Brittan thinks though, I would love to see a system like that here in Canada. It would make things easier for people like me who live on a small income to make a decision on which veterinary practice I should go to based on what I can afford. Thank you to all the kind hearts who care for and treat our sick animal friends. Posted by: Jill in Ottawa | Jan 6, 08 01:52 PM

Several of your postings are from people who need an education themselves. Your show was right on target - and should have gone a few steps further. With over 35 years of being a small and large animal breeder who have rarely encountered a veterinarian who is not just looking for the almighty dollar. We are always prepared to attend a vet clinic when necessary and know that there will be what we hope are legitimate fees. However, more times than not, we are provided wrong diagnoses and exorbitant fees and often have ended up seeking other vet assistance and/or treating our animals with a good dose of our own common sense. This is a regularly occurring issue, and affects almost everyone we have encountered. Further one of your posts said they were told to use ASA - which can be lethal to some animals! I would like to see even more expose on the veterinarian field. We even encountered one local vet who admitted that the classes they take include playing on the owners feelings for their animals and using it for a monetary advantage! Posted by: Gambler88 | Jan 6, 08 06:14 PM

Its the fact that the difference in medication prices has been kept "a secret" for so long is the issue for me. Yes, the veterinary practice is a business, but as it concerns the health of living beings (pets) it is not like an average retail store where you can decide whether or not the item is worth the money. Medication is a necessity, not an option. Yes, every day there are people who can't afford veterinary care and have their animals put down. But if they realized they might be able to obtain the medication cheaper, this number could be reduced. As it concerns healthcare people have a right to know in order to make informed decisions. It seems to me there is not enough regulation in this country regarding animal welfare, as further evidenced by the recent pet food poisoning. Posted by: Susan | Jan 6, 08 06:22 PM

I love my vets. The practice I go to has fabulous vets and staff who I do truly appreciate. Last year I spent $3000+ in one month on surgeries/tests for my 2 hounds and don't begrudge $1 of it. However I do take issue with paying an exorbitant amount for an OTC medication-Caninsulin. It costs $100+/month for insulin for 1 hound, incl a $15 dispense fee (4x10ml), (+ $200/month for the special food required). As far as I am concerned, vets are fee-for-service practitioners and that is the way it should stay. Our pets are a luxury, a beloved one for sure, but they are a luxury item that we budget for just like entertainment or any other 'luxury'. No reason people who don't have or want pets should subsidize us. But, I definitely take strong issue with those vets here who think that overcharging for lifetime and life-saving medication is 'justified' to fund the rest of the practice. I pay for consultations and tests separately, why should I pay for other pets' tests and visits in the cost of my pet's medication that neither requires a prescription nor an examination of my animal every time I buy it? I don't get free glucose or fructosomine tests because I buy my insulin through the practice -I pay for them, as I should. I don't agree with using 'human' medication as an alternative, as I agree with the vets on this commentary who point out the problems with that. However, if my vet has laid out a regimen for me to follow (which I have paid for in consultation fees), then I should be able to buy the ingredients for that regimen anywhere I want to and pharmacies should be allowed to buy it and sell it at a reasonable markup. If I have followup questions, I would book, and pay for, a followup consultation with my vet -just as I do now. This should be a wake-up call that it is time that every owner started paying the real fee-for-service and not rely on subsidies from those who have to buy medications AND a wake-up call to those vets above who think this is fair practice. Posted by: Sally Rich | Jan 6, 08 10:01 PM

I was enlightened by your program, and will take everything under consideration next time I have to get meds for my pets. I also understand that not all vets do unrealistic markups, and the pets thank you for that. I was also surprised at some of the disgruntled comments about your program. One comment, "don't get a pet if you can't afford it!" My response to that? Don't spend years becoming a veterinary, knowing your wages will be poor, and your overhead high, (I don't know this for fact), if YOU can't afford it, and then gouge the consumer to make up for it? And it's become clear, that some visits need not be as expensive, if the meds can be purchased elsewhere. Again, not all vets price gouge. And really, where is the justification in doing a 200 or 300% markup? The vet association said it's your right, well, it's the consumer's right to shop around for the best prices too. And I believe that is what the program was trying to do: simply let the consumer know they have other options, and that they weren't being told this. I don't believe they've blacklisted all vets, but have made it clear some are definitely doing unrealistic markups. Am I going to run right out and accuse my vet of cheating me? Of course not! I really like my vet, they've been very good to my pets, but if I can get the meds for a better price, of course I'm going to look into that. If I can do more for my beloved pet, because I can afford more, then there really is no other option. Posted by: Jodi, Sherwood Park, AB | Jan 7, 08 02:05 PM

I just watched this episode via internet and was BLOWN AWAY by the information. I understand that vets go thru a number of years of university education, and owners of clinics have "over head" to pay etc., and deserve to be paid ACCORDINGLY!! BUT to rip people/pets off because they know they can get away with it due to of the lack of information provided to clients, is incomprehensible!! SHAME ON THE VETERINARY COMMUNITY. I act as a volunteer at the local Humane Society and the amount of loving animals being "put down" because people can NOT afford them is a tragedy. And then you get subjected to heart tugging commercials on television begging people to give an animal a second chance...hell, I'd take them all home if I could afford their up keep and vet. bills! FYI...after watching this episode, ironically enough I had both of my dogs vaccination updates scheduled for tomorrow at my usual clinic. I phoned them back and asked how much TOTAL for exam and vacs. They informed me it would be $210.00 I then called another clinic and asked the very same questions, and they quoted me $168.00 That's $42.00 less! GO FIGURE! Posted by: Kitty | Jan 11, 08 04:26 PM

i live in Alberta so i was not surprised to learn that Alberta vets charge the highest prices to fill their prescription. Anything goes in Alberta as far as big biz is concerned; there is such a thing as the Alberta advantage and it is never applied to the citizens of Alberta. Posted by: f.mackay | Jan 12, 08 05:51 AM

Today I took my tiny Persian to a new veterinarian in Duncan, which is on Vancouver Island, British Columbia. Little Riley has been on fucithalmic eye medication for three years. Riley has never had such a lengthy careful examination before. The vet thought he didn't even need eye ointment as his corneal ulcers were not active. However, Dr. L. offered us a prescription just in case there were any changes. He said it was a human medication, just with a different package and that it would be cheaper for us to buy it at a drug store. So off we went to good old Costco! We paid $30.19 for 5 GM at the former vet's office. The cost at Costco was $8.53 with a fee of $4.49 for a cost of $13.02. That saved us $17.17, a saving of well over 100%. We had been paying too much for years until we met this remarkable veterinarian. The government needs to make some regulations to stop this kind of thing. Posted by: Jean | Jan 15, 08 01:26 AM

I have been very frustrated of the veterinary clinic taking advantage of our concerns and emotional distress for our pets in Calgary. My concerns are as follows: * vet's don't offer a prescription for drug(s), but they will charge you a price for partial packaged drugs, not giving clients an alternative to shop around for cheaper prices, * charge clients additional fees i.e. like insisting your pet has an examination even though you are just wanting a shot to travel to the US, putting the price from $20 to $89. * wanting to keep your pet overnight and getting client to sign for an unknown amount to be charged over the $1,000 amount to cover costs while they add them up without consent. * charging way too much money for services not rendered, and then they treat us like were idiots * take picture(s) of our animals, and harrass us for unnecessary future appointments, etc., without permission * ignore you and your pet until it's time to pay for services that are undeserving The government definitely needs to intervene with Canadian guidelines/policies to prevent client rip-offs, as the matter seems to be getting worse and more wide-spread, not better. It's more like a CASH-COW pet service that wants to profit from people's emotional distress. Posted by: C M Wilson | Jan 15, 08 07:10 PM

As a veterinarian, I support many of the comments made on behalf of the veterinary profession. The level and quality of service that a veterinary clinic has to offer comes at a significant cost, which as a business, must be passed on to the client. As in human medicine, the cost of offering the level of health care services that pet owners demand is increasing. Pet owners must realize that these costs will be covered by both drug markups and other services. If they demand lower drug costs, other services will become more expensive. Another point that was largely ignored by this program was the issue of professional liability and malpractice with respect to writing prescriptions for human products. Human pharmacists are not trained in animal physiology and disease. They are not equipped to advise a client of the risks of using a human product in their pet. As a result, there is the issue of liability should a veterinarian prescribe a human product rather than an existing approved veterinary medication. Veterinary-labeled products have been tested for safety in animals; human products have not. Should an animal experience a complication from a human product obtained from a veterinary prescription to a pharmacist, should the veterinarian be held liable? The College of Veterinarians of Ontario has a position statement regarding the compounding of veterinary pharmaceuticals that includes a decision making hierarchy for medication selection, which lists approved veterinary products by label directions and off-label directions as the first and second choices, with human products as third. This document also states that, “(the) cost difference should not drive the practitioner’s recommendation to a client that a compounded drug be prescribed (over a veterinary product) except in very extreme circumstances.” This document can be found at: www.cvo.org/uploadattachments/Drugcompounding.pdf . Posted by: Dr. S. Otto | Jan 24, 08 10:10 AM

Your show is right on! Vets do not advise you of the option of taking their prescription to a drug store. How many seniors and children have been scarred by the decision to have their beloved pet ‘put down’ due to the inflated cost of the pet's medication? Those attacking your program cannot escape the fact that trust is violated at a time when the pet owner is often emotionally vulnerable. The arrogance of the industry representative suggesting consumers “should be diligent” is a betrayal of the confidence we place in our veterinarians or anyone else who calls themselves a "Doctor". Perhaps provincial regulation is in order! Posted by: Rick King | Mar 2, 08 03:31 PM

Well, I am no surprised about the Canadian criticism. In Canada it is an offence to even try to make a buck for your work. Come in USA where people cannot afford health care, they know very well how much that costs...so maybe the Canadian citizens will understand better how much they have to pay for human care. The Canadians live in socialism and of course in socialism it is a crime to work hard and live better. My fellow Canadian Veterinary Doctors, probably if the human health care would be private like it is here (USA) our fees would be appreciated much more. Get real! Posted by: canadian in USA | Mar 3, 08 01:47 PM

This story initially got me upset with vets. And then I thought . . . Hello Viagra? Just last week my dog underwent surgery to remove an abscessed cyst and the mammary gland. The cost for 2 consultations, two courses of oral ABX's, two injections of ABX's, blood-work, needle biopsy, surgery, tooth cleaning and nail clipping - just over $800. I think this just dirt cheap comparing to what you would expect to pay for human health care. You might have read up about the Lucentis injection for age related macular degeneration - the cost of one (1) injection is $1700 . . . Vets have my full respect for their hard work and the vast array knowledge they need to have to shuffle between cats, dogs, lizards, and so on. Posted by: Candy | Mar 25, 08 11:09 PM

Thanks to the CBC for doing an expose on the price vets charge for medicine. **TIP: I got the great tip from these emails to use "Broadview Pharmacy" in Toronto, they fill pet meds at half the cost and if you're not from Toronto use their online service www.petpharm.org **TIP: Read the rest of the material the CBC has posted on the website about this story to realize you don't have to get yearly shots for your pet **TIP: If your vet won't give you the prescription tell them to phone or fax it to the pharmacy, if they still refuse, find a new vet **TIP: Before you get any work done by the vet, say you want to see an itemized invoice beforehand to decide Suggestion for CBC: You should now look into the prices vets charge for procedures. Also it would be great if you could post on your site the appropriate government branch people could write to so we get these unfair practices changed. This report has already helped me tremendously. I was able to prove that I have been overcharged for years on my cat's medication. When I asked my vet for the prescription he wouldn't give it to me. I did a survey of 20 vets in Toronto, and only half of them would agree to give me the prescription or phone it to a pharmacy, and of course they will charge you to do so. So it's another case of consumer beware! Don't just mindlessly pay those expensive vet bills, be a prudent consumer and do your research and price check. Of course not all vets are charging inflated prices but from my research, I learned that a lot are. Posted by: Denise | May 8, 08 06:12 PM

****IMPORTANT: For those consumers who want to see something done about unfair medicine prices charged by vets, contact your provincial government and complain to the minister. In Ontario you write to the Ontario Minister for Agriculture & Food, here's a direct link to an online comment form: http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/about/comment.html For all other provinces contact the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association and ask who is the provincial body responsible for overseeing veterinarians in your province, it's probably the provincial ministry of agriculture & food as it is in Ontario. Posted by: Denise | May 21, 08 04:41 PM

The beat goes on. Here's a copy of an email I received yesterday morning. " I decided to do what you always suggest. I took an antibiotic prescription to my local pharmacy instead. The vet quoted $99.70 for 10 days of pills, which I thought sounded crazy. I only had to pay $33 from the pharmacy for the same thing!!! I like my vet, but what a crook!" Posted by: Jean | Jun 12, 08 08:30 PM

Vets DO charge too much, in part because their overhead is too high. The one issue not mentioned in this program are these "prescription diet" formulas -- dry food that is causing so many illnesses in cats. Are these a food or a drug? If they are a "prescription" (and you can only get them from a vet) shouldn't they be regulated as such. This was missing from the show because vets make huge markups on these products. As well, all vets in Ontario are members of the Veterinarian Supply Purchasing company in St. Mary's Ontario, which they OWN, so they are in effect shareholders. Not only are they making a big markup on the products they sell you, but they get dividends. The vet profession has a lot to answer for. Vets are not trained in nutrition and thus are not qualified to be advising cat guardians to feed species inappropriate, cereals coated with meat digest kibble that is causing so much illness over the long term. These products are untested and unregulated and vets have become the Dr. Jekylls of the pet food companies by just blindly following the slick advertising the pet food companies put out about these products. People especially in Toronto are very pissed off at the vets -- their poor treatment, high fees and really, lack of concern for the long term health of animals. How many vets came out and railed against the pet food companies during the tainted food scandal? No, they were the beneficiaries as people flocked to the vets, paying highly inflated test fees and the vets failed to point out that the food was the problem. The relationship between Big Pharma and the pet food companies needs to change. There should be no relationship between these multinational companies and the veterinarian profession. I know the vets think they are professionals but really any vet who sells kibble is just a pet food whore. Posted by: Carol Auld | Jun 16, 08 07:02 AM

Just wondering if your reporters shop around for clothes too? Or do they simply go the Gap and request a price from Old Navy - they don't regulate prices either! Perhaps a little more research should have been done prior to this story as it is obvious that your researchers are comparing apples to oranges... Metacam (a liquid) and Meloxicam (a pill) are in fact the same product but not available in the same dose for a smaller animal (want to cut a pill into 1/8th anyone?). Therefore the Animal Health produced product (the liquid) is the only option. Also, human pharmacies are able to purchase 4-5 bottles at a time (because they need it) as compared to smaller animal hospitals that typically only need 1 or 2 bottles of a product in the same time period. Ironically, we don't change the markup on products when the producers increase the price, but invariably the human pharmacies still have quantities left at a cheaper price. As well, we do live in a big country with lots of free will accorded to us. Why wouldn't you call around for prices? You call for quotes on carpet cleaning why not the health of a family member? Some people are just more inclined to cry poor me, you've taken advantage of my love for my pet. What about over-head? Small pharmacies pay rent on a small building (without large diagnostic machines - xrays, ultrasounds etc) and typically employ 3-4 people. Animal hospitals are separate entities. Rent or mortgage on a much larger area is paid, employees have salaries (some larger places have 25-30 people) and yes building maintenance costs. So, yes, animal hospitals do vary in their costs from human pharmacies. Oh, and by the way, sure Mr Cote the pharmacists wishes that more people would buy from his pharmacy instead of a vet. How else would he make money????! Posted by: Lisa | Jun 28, 08 04:25 PM

I recognize that vets are highly trained professionals. That there are significant costs in their business. But it strikes me on this issue some vets are taking advantage of their customers who trust them due to the fact that they are professionals. The practice of charging 4 or 5 times the cost of the drug is disappointing. I think this is not in keeping with their oath: As a member of the veterinary medical profession, I solemnly swear that I will use my scientific knowledge and skills for the benefit of society. I will strive to promote animal health and welfare, relieve animal suffering, protect the health of the public and environment, and advance comparative medical knowledge. I will practise my profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. I will strive continuously to improve my professional knowledge and competence and to maintain the highest professional and ethical standards for myself and the profession. Posted by: Paul | Jun 28, 08 07:17 PM

I am so glad that you brought visibility to this subject. A few months back, I had my dog to the Vet and was told that she has allergies - for which he suggested to be treated with Benadryl. When I asked if it was the same as what I use myself, he said no and that it was a specific dosage that she needed. After a few minutes, he came out with a bottle containing two benadryl tablets and told me to cut them in half. And yes they were the same. What did I have to pay for these two tablets - $12.00. Although I trust my Vet with my animals and I am very grateful for his care with them, that does not excuse the fact that in some cases, they overcharge for drugs - taking advantage of the pet owners. Posted by: Russell | Jun 28, 08 07:23 PM

I have to say that, after reading through the 300-odd comments to this episode, that Veterinarians are extremely sensitive about this issue to the point of being defensive and accusing the consumer and CBC instead of looking at their own practices in a rational manner. We live in a country of regulated industries. It is about time that Veterinarians understand this and accept that change may have to come. Without transparency, there will always be room for dishonest practices - or the appearance thereof. No one is saying that Vets should not make a profit. My wife and I have spent thousands (over the past 3 years), willingly, on our 4 cats and 1 dog - but I have always wondered why it is so expensive. Perhaps instead of pandering to every uneducated pet-owner as to the use of human grade equipment for animals, animal doctors should be explaining the fundamental differences between human and animal health care. Does every clinic need a radiology department? I doubt it. Vets have created (or have been coerced into creating) an industry that does not seem to be able to support itself with normal retail pricing. As much as I hate to say it, wait until Wal-Mart decides to open up clinics in their stores. Then, we will see true market pricing. It's just unfortunate that the money will be going to a multinational corporation instead of locally-trained vets owning their own practices. But I can certainly see this happening (try Google-ing Wal-mart & vet, they are already teaming up with vets to appear more animal-friendly to consumers). To all Veterinarians, please do not take this CBC report as an accusation - rather, why not see it as a way to move forward, to further gain the trust of pet owners? No one is pointing fingers. Just be honest and upfront (as many many of you are). Posted by: James Csoko | Jun 28, 08 07:34 PM

My diabetic cat needs Glargine Insulin. My vet charges me $20 for the medication and she offered me a prescription if I wanted it. I checked around at a few drug stores and the best price I found was $59. So I'll continue to buy the insulin at the vet's. I buy the needles at a grocery/drug store for 24 cents each, where the vet would charge me 50 cents each. It pays to shop around! Posted by: Larry Altman | Jun 28, 08 07:57 PM

A huge Kudos to you for this article! It is great that you have exposed this practice of charging so much for drugs. I am a breeder of Pure bred cats in the Lower Mainland and I have known about this for a long time. Because I spend an average of 5000.00 per year of Vet services I quickly realised that I need a way to cut costs. So, for several years now I've used a pharmacy in Cloverdale that carries Meds for animals and also order via the internet to cut my costs. Posted by: Debbie (Azorez Cattery) | Jun 28, 08 08:58 PM

Thank you marketplace. I consider myself a well-informed consumer and am constantly comparing prices and making sure my service/goods providers are giving me a fair deal. I am the biggest advocate of a free market economy there is and wholly support a veterinarian's right to charge as they see fit for medication. However, I never thought to price shop when going to my veterinarian. I just assumed that as medical practitioners they would all follow guidelines for mark-ups/dispensing fees that were fair to both parties. I still have faith that the majority of veterinarians do this but I will from now on definitely shop around. Posted by: Kerrie | Jun 28, 08 09:01 PM

i had a surprising experience and what I've learnt is pet owner beware. I took my daughters male cat to be fixed. I was given an approx price of under $150 I thought great i would do it that day in Feb 2008. To my surprise the total bill was just over $500 The vet added everything from a chip and a tattoo, to the flee spot on medication, to the pain med my cat required. I was very upset and swore I will not return to this vet again. This vet was a friend of a friend, in fact this vet stated she gave me a discount which I didn't see the discount. the vets assistant told me if i got a chip for the cat I didn't need the tattoo well. the vet went nuts at her assistant in front of me and and my daughter. daughter felt bad for assistant. I assumed if my cat was going thru surgery pain killers are included.....stupid me for assuming. the vet make my daughter feel guilty if she didn't get the chip of tattoo or the med's for pain or flees etc. The vet tried to get me to get pet vet medical insurance. Posted by: gmq | Jun 28, 08 10:14 PM

i was glued to the vet segment of your show. the vets should stop whining - going to school this long, paying that much for loans and making less than a human doctor. i recently went to a specialist animal hospital for my puppys' leg. very modern interior, leather couches, staff uniforms, expensive tile on the floor. the price for surgery, $4000.00po cheaper than that!and the consultation fee - $150. went to a small vet clinic, same surgery $900.00. what is with that? post your fees by your office, offer a perscription, just be honest with us and you will have a patient & guardian for life! Posted by: caroline | Jun 28, 08 11:47 PM

I was quite shocked to hear about how large the mark ups are on pet medication and would like to send a comment to the vet who said something to the effect that there are no businesses out there where the consumer knows exactly what the mark ups are - he is wrong - just check the wine list at the next restaurant ......I'm a restauranteur and the majority of my clients know exactly what our mark ups are ....it would have sat better with me had the vet said that the marks ups go towards paying for the businesses rent, employees, equipment and general costs of doing business....he didn't make himself look like a good human at all. Posted by: Susan Lewandoski | Jun 29, 08 06:01 PM

Found this story on Facebook. While I was not surprised at the content I was shocked and disappointed at the attitude of the BC representative of the BC Vets. And what about the formal presentation to 'gouge' pet owners at the Banff vet conference? Markups do not have to be explicitly stated for a consumer to decipher. For construction projects you can price out the materials yourself. For human drugs, Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs) control the mark up a pharmacist can charge an insurance plan. It would be interesting to see if CBC did ask members of the vet profession their opinion, and what the comments were. Maybe they chose not to comment for the story. I think the purpose of the program was to advise the average consumer out there that they do have a choice. Vets are professionals, and spent a lot of time in school. Maybe their business model needs updating. Instead of each clinic having every conceivable diagnostic tools on site, maybe band together in an effort to achieve efficacies. Multiple vets working in one clinic, share techs, reception, etc. Many GPs use this model. Or maybe the pet owners need to recapture vet costs through their own business pricing.Or maybe just wait for Wal-mart to open up a vet clinic. Posted by: Karin | Jun 30, 08 01:52 PM

As an American, I was interested to see a different perspective on 1) journalism and 2) perceptions of veterinarians in another country. Sadly, I didn't find much different from the typical American one-sided shock journalism. Luckily, most of the comments here are reasonable and justifiably angered by this poor journalistic effort. Especially disturbing was that the reporter thought nothing of referring to veterinarians as "vets." Would the same reporter have conducted a report on human doctors by referring to every one of them as "doc"? Think about it: a veterinarian is merely a doctor not limited to treating one species... Also disturbing was that she made no effort to compare the pricing practices of veterinarians to human doctors or pharmacies. A quick survey of your local Walgreen, Safeway, Albertsons, etc. (or the Canadian equivalents) makes it immediately apparent that drug prices are all over the board. I've called to check antibiotic prices (Cephalexin) to find a price swing as wide as $200 for identical drugs! This is in the *human* pharmacy. As an aside, the journalist didn't tell which drugs had "outrageous" mark-ups of 300-400%. My bet is that she was talking about something like prednisone, which costs mere pennies for the veterinarian but which, when marked up a few cents, ends up being a several hundred percent mark-up. What does she suggest? That we charge 1.3 cents for each pill? Talk about doing a disservice to the customer. ("That'll be twelve dollars and 33.9 cents please, Mrs. Jones.") Obviously, I'm being facetious. But the reporter was clearly shooting for shock value instead of honesty. Posted by: David Jinks | Jun 30, 08 06:12 PM

The vet who made the comments noted by Susan was Dr. David Kirby, head of the British Columbia Veterinary Medical Association. He absolutely made the case for Marketplace. With friends like this, veterinarians need no enemies. Maybe next year there will be a more humane-sounding and effective person speaking for the profession. Posted by: Peter H | Jun 30, 08 09:32 PM

Erica, if you read the emails, would you let us know how your special agent is doing? All my fourteen cats are doing really well, including Otis, our cardiomyopathy cat. What a great job Marketplace did on behalf of our animals! Posted by: Jean M | Jul 1, 08 01:05 AM

Marketplace did an excellent job on this subject of vets. The marketing conference and the interview with the Canadian Veterinarians President certainly proves what I have been thinking for years--Vets might like to call Doctors but there really businessman. And if you file a complaint against them they close ranks on you. I have been a pet owner for years and one vet I had was charging for burials and then disposing of the dogs in the garbage. I now have a vet who I believe in and respect--but every profession has its good and bad guys. Consumers just have to do their homework and make sure we put the all-business vets out of work. Posted by: Les Couchie | Jul 1, 08 12:14 PM

This Marketplace was very one-sided and puts veterinary medicine in a horrible light. I have worked at numerous Veterinary hospitals in Ontario and have yet to meet vets only in it for the money. Veterinarians go through many years of school and learn the ins and out of many species of animals (unlike the MD who knows one!). Yes, many prices are not regulated, but not every vet is out there to gouge the client. Pharmacists have specialized in human/drug interaction not animal/drug interaction...so to say just go to the pharmacist isn't the best thing...first talk to your vet and get educated on the drug and any contraindications, and then ask if a prescription is available (not all meds are available at a human pharmacy). I was looking forward to this piece only to be disappointed on the slant it was given. Posted by: Pat J (vet tech) | Jul 4, 08 10:27 AM

I have seen the rise in veterinarian costs over the last 5 years tripled! This is not just in regards to the medications. I have also experienced the recommendation of care given by the vet to always be the highest expense. I have been saying for years that the "vets" (I will use vets for short form here on in) have been experimenting on our pets at our expense. I have many times had to use my logic to decide the least expense for the best diagnostics to come out of the tests required. The vets always want "all" tests done, especially for conditions that they say are rare. Why are there so many rare conditions all the time? (Of course this could lead to a concern with the dog foods we feed our dogs, but this is another area that should be researched). The vets see our pets as a cash grab. I have seen this for years now. Demographically the people have money. The aged baby boomers have money and love their pets, and demographically there are many baby boomers with money! Customer Service is no longer there. The vets realize that they don't need to give customer service since there are many customers out there. I would not be surprised if the number of vets that get certified are regulated so that the number of customers per vet will always exceed the number of vets that practice so this will always be the case. Posted by: Dorothy G | Jul 4, 08 03:05 PM

well i did see the vet story, and was already aware that meds for animals are outrageously overprices. On one visit to my vet, for my dog, who had an ear infection, the medication that was required was $75.00. It just so happened that my vet was out of stock of the particular antibiotic my pet needed. So she said that she would "script it out". I asked her what that meant, and she said that she would have a pharmacy fill that, because she was out of stock. She asked me what pharmacy I used, & I told her, and she called the prescription in. I was astounded! I had absolutely no idea, that this was possible. So when I went to pick up my pets antibiotics at my pharmacy, I asked my pharmacist, that if ever I needed further medications for any of my pets, would he be willing to fill the prescription. He said he would, as long as it was a medication that humans took. I saved $35.00 that day on my pet's medication. And that is what I have done ever since, and have saved myself quite a bit of money. I was pretty upset with my vet, that I didn't know this was an option a long, long time ago. She told me she had a business to run, and was not government funded, and I said "I am not independently wealthy", and my pets mean a great deal to me, and I wished I had known this before. BUT, I will go where I can save money. It doesn't mean I don't support, or deny the abilities/schooling/compassion of my vet. It just means that I work hard for my money, and I am not willing to pay more than what is fair. I don't care that you are running a business, that is your decision, let's just be fair to your clients. If you want to keep your customers, keep them informed and advised of their options, and I think we will all be served better in the long run. Posted by: Karen | Jul 5, 08 03:50 PM

Hi, I would just like to say that I have a veterenarian in my neighbourhood and let me tell you something, my kids have found injured squirrels and birds and have all brought them to this vet who tried to save them with medication and some of them had to be euthanized because of the injuries......he never once asked us for a dime....this medication always came from his own pocket....to these vets I would like to say thank-you... Posted by: Marisa Siconolfi | Jul 7, 08 11:38 AM

Well done story CBC, and a real eye opener for pet owners. I believe this calls for an investigation in Canada to regulate these monopolizing veterinarians who are gouging the public. I see from all the negative comments that vets have rallied to comment here - after all we are paying for their luxury trips to Banff, and their BMW lifestyles. Ouch. But its better than allowing a pet to die, because their prices are so high a consumer is left with no choices. I am in Ontario and I have never been told by a vet that I could get a drug cheaper at a drugstore, since I was lining the pocket of the vet. Shame on you ..greedy vets ..your supposed to help animals get better, not financially rip them off. I am going to tell every pet owner I know to get a prescription for now on. Thanks again to the CBC to reveal this crooked scheme. I had to laugh at one comment by a vet here, that says ..he doesn't make 1/4 of what a doctor earns. What a joke, well why didn't he become a doctor if he was in it for the money. These are miserable excuses for human beings who are supposed to care for animals. Posted by: Teri | Jul 8, 08 01:36 AM

In addition to my prevous post: My experience has been that when you make queries as to the huge increase in prices, they hint that they won't do business with you, if you continue to query. There are enough people who can afford these outrageous rates and are not aware of the "gouging" since they themselves are in occupations that perhaps "gouge" as well. :( My previous career was much higher paying and I was married, so we had two salaries to deal with these expenses. Even so, the vet expenses were not as high as they are now. My guess is that the number of vets that get certified is regulated to ensure the supply and demand remains the same, such that the vets can dictate the way they run their business. Where they will have difficulty with this, and probably have not accounted for this, is when the baby boomers are no longer .... demographically we do not have the same number of youth following behind them. The younger vets will not be able to continue this practice. Of course they may have made their millions by then, and won't have to worry. As more and more people will not be able to afford the care for their pets, there will be more abused and neglected animals that will require adoption. But who will be able to adopt them? We must work to getting vets regulated. Hopefully CBC can continue to do more investigations, and lobby with the government to assist on getting this regulation for medications for our pets, as well as general vet charges. Posted by: Dorothy G | Jul 8, 08 09:01 AM

I'd like to add here that I am sure there are some veterinarians around who truly are working for the love and care of animals. Kudos to them, and thank you. Unfortunately, they seem to be far and few.... too few. I have not found one where I live. In reading some of the veterinarian posts above, it is clear that they are upset with this program that was aired. They claim that they have all these office/hospital overhead expenses ... but, these expenses existed years ago too .... why the sudden increase by 300% of all charges? It is since they want instantaneous wealth since they feel they deserve it since they are "veterinarians". It would be interesting to see the houses they live in, and other luxuries they have. Greedy people will continue to gouge if they can get away with it. And, as I have already said, demographics are such that there is money to be grabbed by the vets .. so they think. Let's move to get veterinarians regulated, so they don't continue to get away with gouging. Posted by: Dorothy G | Jul 10, 08 03:16 AM

I can tell you this. I will never buy heartguard off my vet again. He marked it up thirty more dollars than the on line price. I know its the same medicine because its FDA approved. They just don't want you to buy it so they can make a buck. Fine make a buck, five or six bucks, not thirty. There should be some kind of government clause in there saying they can only mark it up so much!! It's like there getting enough for you being a client and you taking your pet there for their shots, it's like they take advantage of you sometimes. Oh well he just lost a client. I'm sure more hard working middle class people will catch on and more people will drop off vets lists as they research this!! Posted by: Joel Sants | Jul 12, 08 11:24 AM

I have very healthy and happy pets because I avoid taking them to vets at all costs. Vets are great at finding problems where there's none and at converting their patients into hostages of their greed. Unfortunately the ones who should care for the sake of our beloved furry innocent friends are the ones involved with this shameful mafia which really only cares about their cold and caculated business. Posted by: Lewis | Aug 29, 08 01:44 AM

I certainly agree that running an animal hospital and purchasing expensive equipment is a costly proposition. And I can appreciate that charging high markups on commonly used products and services like tests and drugs is one approach to help spread those costs over your entire customer base. The issue I have is with vets that overtest and overprescribe for minor issues, especially those that don't mention the cost until you get the bill. When I was a rookie pet owner, my vet charged me over $150 in diagnostics and treatment for a minor case of diarrhea - despite me saying that I knew he had eaten something he shouldn't have when off-leash. C'mon - the right answer would have been to fast him for a day, then put him on boiled rice and hamburger to let it resolve on its own. I have tried various vets and haven't found one yet that doesn't automatically turn to expensive tests and treatment as the default. Sure - it's the "gold standard" of care, but it's not always necessary. I now have to take the approach of asking before they begin any procedure "what is the fee for that?", and declining testing and treatment for minor issues. It doesn't mean I don't love my dog - it means that I'm realistic. My physician won't run tests and write prescriptions for patients who have minor ailments that should clear up on their own. Why should my vet do it for a dog? I highly recommend the book "How to Afford Veterinary Care Without Mortgaging the Kids" by Dr. James L. Busby D.V.M. Posted by: Scott | Sep 4, 08 10:27 AM