The market dictates the quality of the service. As long as good computer techs have to pay thousands of dollars for proper training in the hopes of making a little more than minimum wage, then you will continue to see only three out of ten techs correctly diagnosing your systems. Posted by: Jim Cookson | Oct 3, 07 07:42 PM

Just watched the marketplace special on computer technicians. 2 things: 1.If you buy car parts from your repair man, ofcourse they are more expensive than if you shop by yourself for the best deal. 2. The laptop you brought in to get fixed had a couple of 'gray area' programs that are infact covers and or channels for trojan horses & information mining 'viruses'. I saw the icon for Limewire on the desktop which is imfamous for bringing bad things onto your computer. How could the CBC so confidently say that the laptop was totally fine if it didn't come directly from the factory. There are bad people our there in every industry taking peoples money unecessarily... this could have been done much better and more honestly. Posted by: Joshua Noel | Oct 3, 07 08:01 PM

I am not in the day to day business of fixing computers anymore, but I was appalled at what I saw. I am, however, not surprised. This type of behaviour goes higher up in the technology industry than just front line computer repair techs. I have been a vocal advocate, for years, that people in this industry should be more closely regulated. Good Lord, you have to have a license issued by the province to cut hair, but anyone can put themselves out as an IT professional. Posted by: Trent Collicutt | Oct 3, 07 08:08 PM

Just watched your story about computer geeks who repair computers. The first problem is that most schools that teach computer repair are putting people who are not properly trained to fix problems in the first place. They teach from a book not any hands on experience before they graduate. Certifications should be given when they past a written test and a hands-on test like the one shown on your show. I agree some of the pricing is way to high but if you want the service "right now", pay the price given or be prepared to wait. I am a experienced IT helpdesk person who could have a business on the side fixing computers, but two things stopped me from doing it. People who do not know how to use a computer and should not be using a computer and people who want it fixed for nothing. Thanks Posted by: Peter Hynes | Oct 3, 07 08:09 PM

Great start to the new season! Man, it seems that no industry is completely honest these days. I'm glad that I know my computers. Although, it is really sad that computer technicians and that part of the IT industry are really taking advantage of people like that. I hope that the government clamps down on this. Posted by: Andrena LeBlanc | Oct 3, 07 08:16 PM

Sounds like biased reporting because the reporter probably got ripped off herself. Interesting story and this kind of corruption had to be exposed. If you target other industries like auto sales, auto repair, HVAC, plumbers, accounting, tax preparers, etc the parallels would be frightening. All ripoff service based business but there are reputable company's out there. Customers buying their own parts will always be cheaper than a repair shop since they have to keep the lights on; retail markup is not surprising. Also consider the cost of labor. Diagnostics fees, why are you so mad? Even if it takes 5 seconds to diagnose that fee is typically taken off your overall total...or should be if you get it fixed at that shop. My critique could go on but the reporter seems a bit biased not telling the whole story. Mainly because her consulting group from that college give you prices and rates for fixing things yourself. You aren't there fixing it yourself, so prepare to pay 125 minimum US or Canadian :0) Like when I get my car fixed...cost for fixing myself is hugely different from the car technician with parts and labor. Good luck out there! Michigan Geek Posted by: US Michigan Geek | Oct 3, 07 08:20 PM

Sorry, If you are at the point of taking a hard drive into a clean room for $2000, before you've even bothered trying it in another computer then you are just playing on the customer's lack of knowledge. And this is even assuming the PC didn't boot up far enough that he could see the results of a POST test. Most computers I've worked on show the results of the POST test or you can go into the BIOS settings. If you can't do that, you've got worse problems than a fried drive. You may be able to quibble about the parts costs, but that guy is either crooked or just plain unqualified. Posted by: Trent Collicutt | Oct 3, 07 08:53 PM

just watched the story, or should i say half the story. CBC you make me glad I watch CTV news. That was a very unfair spin on the industry, and only one sided. It is like this in any industry that fixes stuff. 2 min diagnosis for free...... why should you get it for free? Want to get ripped off, go see a dentist, or a vet. Things cost money. Posted by: canadian tech | Oct 3, 07 09:08 PM

As a previous post indicated if you can't do the work yourself be prepared to pay for it. Parts delivered on site with the technician will always cost more than buying from an internet site or store, the tech or company has to first obtain the part then carry it as inventory,monitor usage, reorder for inventory etc etc. That being said if you need to pay for service you should use some common sense and as mentioned do a little research before hand about the problem you are having, at the minimum it should give you a better understanding of the terminology. If you own a computer IT WILL FAIL at some point, be prepared. Posted by: Wilmo | Oct 3, 07 09:12 PM

Loved the condescending tips section tonight: "Fix it yourself." Genius! Posted by: Dave McDonald | Oct 3, 07 09:15 PM

There are many people out there that should be slapped for doing what they do for a living. But without them, what would we complain about?! My company would have got the RAM stick bang on (about $155 repair includes the RAM). The missing system files would have been more costly then the $60 though! We would attempt to find the cause of the missing files. Files generally don't mystically disappear, and I don't want you back in my store with the same problem in a week! Bad RAM or a bad Hard Drive are usually to blame when files go MIA, or one of your children have a sick twisted sense of humour. So we would have to test the HD and RAM to be sure they are ok before we would go ahead with the XP repair. Keeping in mind if you simply "repair" Windows XP, you are looking at roughly 70 MSUpdates that have to be redownloaded and reinstalled before Windows starts behaving again. Which of course we would have to do. All in all this repair in my store would have cost roughly 2.5 hours ($150 (60/hr))and would have taken 2 business days, and it would not have been possible to do in your home since the tests take a long time. Pickup and delivery service is usally $42.50 each way, however, after this show; I am considering free pick up and drop off!!! Yikes! Free tips...FREE TIPS...... Get Antivirus, Get a REAL router (firewall), Get a Uninteruptible Power Supply, scan with Ad-Aware from Lavasoft & SpyBot from safer-networking(FREE) once a week, and have at least a 1GB of RAM in your computer when using XP! Delete your temporary Internet Files, empty your recyle bin, compact and archive your email folders, and clean up your desktop regularily. Oh...and dont use the restore option in Windows, it rarely co-operates. Safe Travels! Lawrence Posted by: Lawrence Hickman | Oct 3, 07 09:18 PM

my goodness, that was the worst piece of one sided reporting i have ever seen. it would be nice to have someone still in the industry, commenting on the story. very one sided, very disappointed in the coverage of this story. but, see if this comment makes their comments board. Posted by: steve | Oct 3, 07 09:22 PM

Hi, I watched your program with great interest as I also perform on-site and off-site repair of computers. I was amazed at the poor skill levels being demonstrated by the majority of techs depicted. Particularly with the bad RAM issue; that is a no brainer. I would have conducted the analysis a little different though. It has been my experience that 70% or more of the problems that home computer users face are software related not hardware. Specifically, I would have provided a mildly infected computer as the "test" subject for the unsuspecting "techs". I take issue with your pricing examples though; comparing prices with the web is unfair as you are not including the shipping and/or duties/taxes or the wait for delivery. To close, I am quite disappointed with the results of your expose as the incompetents make us competent good "guys" all look bad. Cheers, Steve in Winnipeg Posted by: Steve | Oct 3, 07 09:48 PM

I just watched the Marketplace report on computer technicians, and found it very interesting. I am absolutely shocked by how much of this is actually going on. There are many people who understand very little about how their computer works, and that these companies would take advantage of that for their own bottom line is disgraceful. As a technician myself, and the owner of a home business repairing computers, I use the simple but honest policy of "If I can't solve your problem, the work is free." If more techs followed that, perhaps some trust could be put back into the tarnished reputation of this industry. Posted by: Mark Carroll | Oct 3, 07 10:00 PM

I found this episode a little skewed and lacking of facts. Firstly a computer tech can't just come in and tell you right off the bat what the problem is. Without time to diagnose the problem he's going to make a guess. There are only 3-4 things that will cause a computer to not post. CPU, Motherboard, Ram. Take your pick, its a 30% chance that you will be right. So those 3 out of 10 guys you brought in, where the 3 out of the 10 that managed to guess on the first go. Prices... The mark up/inflation of the item/product they are giving you is justified. Firstly they are installing it for you. Secondly they have delivered it to you. You could easily take the time out of your busy day and spend 1 hour reading up about it, but since you didn't, or don't have the time to, you pay someone else to do it, thus you pay more. That $50 extra that you pay paid for his 1 hour to go get the part for you prior to visiting. There is no such thing as a free lunch, so quit asking for one. Unless there is a way to have the computer tell you the problem, there is no way to assess the problem with 100% accuracy. There will always be mistakes, and unfortunately you will have to pay for them. But this is a problem with all services provided, car repair, home repair, etc. If you don't know, you get ripped off. It's that simple- but not everyone out there is out to rip you off, there are a many good, honest workers. Internet + school + educate your self and guess what, you won't find yourself needing a repair man to change your light bulb. Posted by: alex | Oct 3, 07 10:02 PM

This report was so focused on the bad guys that us honest guys got totally buried. This show gave absolutely no praise or gratitude to us honest techs that WANT to HELP others and go out of their way to be more than honest to save the client money. I've been in IT Consulting for a long time but recently invested $20,000 on starting a tech business and this story will hurt me a lot. Recently I serviced a senior citizen and got his PC runnning a hundred times faster. I was there almost two hours and charged only $100. Last Sunday I helped a client with a blue screen which again was almost two hours for $125. A couple weekends ago I helped some students completely frustrated with their wireless connection, charged only only $60 and this was on a saturday. I wonder how the "wizards" at Humber College might fare out in the field... Posted by: lazer30 | Oct 3, 07 10:06 PM

This piece comes not too long after a sting by The Consumerist on Best Buy in the United States. As a senior computer technician and a service manager, I am deeply concerned with this type of bad publicity. When it comes to diagnosing a computer, there are really no official guidelines easily available to the computer technician community as a whole. I have actually been looking at the idea of sending the equivalent of a secret shopper in the retail business into a service location with a "loaded" computer problem to gauge how a service location is performing. As it stands right now, the media is the only real source of this type of feedback for the computer service industry. Posted by: Jared Howkins | Oct 3, 07 10:07 PM

Its good to see a program doing a report about this, however, the CheeeBahChee typically does not get the WHOLE story again. Yes they sensationalized a bad tech, yes they are out there, but if you READ all the comments here posted, you will REALLY understand the industry more, period. I wish the IT was unionized and paid for like the CBC, then you would get a IT tech as equal as a CBC report. Posted by: Old time Nerd | Oct 3, 07 10:12 PM

I was intrigued by this recent story, since i have been working in the computer industry for nearly five years now. You had every right to point fingers and expose some really bad practices. On the other hand, remember that three fingers are pointing back at you. I am sorry to say, but many people are "dumb" when it comes to their computers. People need to learn the basics of software and hardware before investing hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars into a computer. Are you not going to learn about a specific GIC or mutual fund before you invest your money? If they do this, they might not be so easly messed about. All the advice at the end of your show was dead-on. Everyone needs to keep their PC updated. I did not think it was fair that you pointed out that one guy was charging $120 for 1GB of memory. Was the memory stick that your "scholar" pointed out for sixty or so dollars, the exact same stick of memory?? At least the tech found the problem and he seemed to be an independant guy, so he also has to make some money somewhere. If he is going to buy the stick of memory to sell it to the customer, why would he charge the same price?? That makes no business sense. The website that was selling it, was selling it at a profit and the company that sold it to them, sold it at a profit. Pointing out that one guy was late, was lame at best! The cable guy, plumber, any repair guy, are never on time! Overall, good story to make people aware. Posted by: Amateur Geek | Oct 3, 07 10:13 PM

I couldn't agree more with Michigan. Has Marketplace never heard of a retail markup? I learned that lesson at the tender age of 17 working in a little shop. "The first rule of retail is to mark everything up 100%". While that much may be ridiculous, with a name like Marketplace you might think you would have a clue about running a business that involved carrying inventory. It's incredible that you would expect the same price from the on-site technician that you could get from the on-line store. How about the fact that the parts are coming right to your door? How about the fact that you're not waiting for them to be shipped? Do you want that for no markup at all? The tech probably carried that RAM stick around in his car for a month before finding a PC that needed it, and obviously that forethought and effort was worth nothing to you. There's a reason that geeks have a tee-shirt that says "No, I won't fix your computer." Nobody has a second thought about giving a plumber or electrician $150 for 30 minutes of work, you think the computer technician should get about $15 and a sandwich for their own brand of special knowledge. I'd suggest learning how to fix your own computer because with this kind of attitude, nobody's going to want to do it for you much longer. Posted by: Sean | Oct 3, 07 10:29 PM

I'd be interested in knowing what exact things the computer did do. I've had friends who's computers wouldn't turn on, and wouldn't do anything. Did it beep, or did it do nothing? Posted by: Jamie | Oct 3, 07 10:29 PM

There is some price inflation, but what I see is more incompetent techs than nerds trying to snow you over. Posted by: Mantari Damacy | Oct 3, 07 10:35 PM

I do consulting on the side to home users and small businesses and needless to say, you get what you pay for also applies to computers. To work properly, it takes training, lots of training to properly repair a computer. Training comes at a price. You are not going to get a qualified tech for the pay most of these large services will pay their techs. As a result, most of the techs you get from the big box stores result in the techs being salespeople designed to push more product rather than solve your problem. Yes, I'll admit, I do charge $60 an hour for my time. Mind you, that's $60 actually fixing the problem. You're actually paying for the time it takes me to learn how to fix the computer and the experience to fix it. Mind you, it's dirt cheap to car techs and the amount of experience required is similar. So, my advice, hire your local neighbourhood geek instead of a big box store. Odds are you will get a more qualified person that way. Avoid the big box stores and techie chains. The industry is a joke - there's some of us who know what we're talking about. Sadly, good techs are few and far between. Posted by: Andrew | Oct 3, 07 10:51 PM

Not a bad expose on the computer repair industry. It certainly does show how the big box stores care nothing about proper training or customer service. I am in the house call computer repair field myself and I am glad to see the small business guys got the problem right. The internet price shown was for a company with a large chain of stores in the GTA not the guy trying to make a living by honestly providing good service to customers. So what if he makes $20 on a piece of RAM, he fixed the problem and you are back up and running. Go buy it yourself and fry your pc by trying to install it yourself. Posted by: Beavisaur | Oct 3, 07 11:00 PM

Very nice report, liked the honcho at Nerds On Site trying to cover up his employee at first. I have to agree on the pricing aspect. Looks to me like the tech at Humber was quoting prices from Canada Computers website - probably the lowest priced computer hardware retailer in Canada. As mentioned, buying parts from repairmen is going to be much higher - especially when markup on hardware is minimal at best and their cost is probably higher than what CC is selling for. Also, the laptop more than likely contained cookies that were probably picked up by scanners as being malware related so that is why they were mentioning virus infection - coupled with the out of place files and P2P sharing program installed on the system. Posted by: Alex Appleton | Oct 3, 07 11:19 PM

I couldn't agree more with Michigan. Has Marketplace never heard of a retail markup? I learned that lesson at the tender age of 17 working in a little shop. "The first rule of retail is to mark everything up 100%". While that much may be ridiculous, with a name like Marketplace you might think you would have a clue about running a business that involved carrying inventory. It's incredible that you would expect the same price from the on-site technician that you could get from the on-line store. How about the fact that the parts are coming right to your door? How about the fact that you're not waiting for them to be shipped? Do you want that for no markup at all? The tech probably carried that RAM stick around in his car for a month before finding a PC that needed it, and obviously that forethought and effort was worth nothing to you. There's a reason that geeks have a tee-shirt that says "No, I won't fix your computer." Nobody has a second thought about giving a plumber or electrician $150 for 30 minutes of work, you think the computer technician should get about $15 and a sandwich for their own brand of special knowledge. I'd suggest learning how to fix your own computer because with this kind of attitude, nobody's going to want to do it for you much longer. Posted by: Former Tech | Oct 3, 07 11:31 PM

[disclosure]I am an experienced tech/small business owner [/disclosure] A few points. Failed RAM, such as was on the show, is an easy instant diagnosis. All motherboards will give out a beep code, or vocal error message telling the tech the RAM is faulty. The same holds true for a failed video card. Did Marketplace also remove and/or disable the onboard or case speaker so as to eliminate the ease of diagnosis? The Marketplace "price" of the RAM was disingenuous. It costs much more to have a tech diagnose, buy and install the RAM for you than it does for the consumer to do all of the above themselves. As Joshua stated earlier, the laptop did not appear to be a pristine installation, and could very well have had any number of trojans/viruses. Especially if the user was downloading executable files via Limewire. And please note, almost all the systems I see with trojan/virus/malware problems have AV and spyware software installed. No software in the world can: a) keep up with emerging/evolving malware, b) stop the user from doing something they shouldn't be doing Case in point. There are a multitude of browser search engine hijacks that will take over your browser searches and send you off to illegitimate sites. Most are installed unwittingly by the user via an ActiveX control, or an innocuous looking piece of free software . The user has no real idea what they are installing, but they do it any way. Posted by: Steven in BC | Oct 3, 07 11:51 PM

I have for may years fixed, bandaged and upgraded hundreds of computers. Anyone can show you one side of the argument. From the technician's perspective parts that were quoted on the broadcast from your "experts" were based on a) you knew what to buy b)where to buy it and c)what would be a good price for the part. The majority of people can not do this as they have no idea as to what the part is. So how much would your "experts" charge for the advice on diagnosing and recommendation in this particular scenario? Every company charges what is competitive. Moving on, the fact that you put a blown ram chip in the computer could have easily blown the motherboard and the technicians would have been right. There was no audible noise in the broadcast but bad ram means a specific beeping pattern would have been present! Did you unplug the internal pc speaker? Come on, this is a waste of time to go to a school and use tech's that do not work with the general public. I could easily tell a computer student to buy a stick of 512mb SD pc-133Mhz ram for $55.00. Tell a customer to this and you have created a new language that they are willing to pay not to learn. Posted by: IT INSIGHT | Oct 4, 07 12:16 AM

How many people visit a doctor who then suggests a specialist who then suggests another doctor and so on? This is acceptable? But a few techs get ambushed with a problem that was intentionally created and we are all bad? All A+ technicians know the beeping sequence of bad ram. I did not hear it in the broadcast. Was it present? Or disabled to further trick these techs? I have had the pleasure of working with many of these companies and they are all great in their own way. As well, they are guided by rules and company policies to protect the customer and the company. Pricing from the brand name companies are set by the head office and are monitored to be competitive in today’s market. Posted by: Matts | Oct 4, 07 12:37 AM

Before you drive a car you have to learn how to use it. People who no nothing about computers should take the effort to go to a class and learn as the computer literate are tired of hearing "I know nothing about computers." With the amount of knowledge and life saving information on the web, not understanding the basics is the same as being illiterate 100 years ago Posted by: advanced user | Oct 4, 07 12:40 AM

Reminds me of 40 years ago when I was with a TV rental company. The "technican" was new to the country and the units ALWAYS had to "go into the shop" and we always had loaners on board to shut them up. Looks like same game today. nothing really changes. Posted by: will rosart | Oct 4, 07 12:48 AM

Of course it costs more than $25 from any of the techs. I mean, the guy who said 35 is not that bad. If you really think about it, how much of a turn-around time is it to order something from newegg or other sites? I mean, if you were to pay overnight shipping on that $25 ram stick, you'd probably be paying closer to $40 or more, then if you can't do it, you still have to have someone come in and do it for you. It's the price of having it done at the time. If you want to wait, sure, it'll be cheaper. But if you want the computer just fixed then and there, it shouldn't be unexpected for there to be a markup. Going with the car example that someone left in the comments, if you want to wait two weeks to have your car fixed, it'd probably be cheaper. If you want it done then, yeah, you pay for it. Posted by: Rob | Oct 4, 07 12:53 AM

I have been working in the computer repair industry for about three years now and I'm not surprised by what you have found. Big business and humans have been taking advantage of each other since David and Goliath. The problem I'm having is that I've spent a wack of money getting the education and certification, not too mention the job experience with in the IT industry, and to see these young fellows telling us the big Box Store chains can hire un-certified computer technicians is totally out there. I worked in the trades as a welder and you had to go through an apprenticeship, before becoming a journymen. There are rules out there in the IT industry they just have to be followed to a --T--. Will I continue to work on peoples' computers? Of course I will but I am proud of the work I do which is something you don't find out there very often. I think that comes from me working in the trades. Posted by: Freespindler | Oct 4, 07 01:40 AM

This is a sad state of affairs to see such horrible diagnosis and customer service skills. There is such a huge difference between technicians in their skill levels and also apparently in their honesty. The film did not bring this up, but it seemed to me as if some of the people they filmed were possibly looking for ways to price gouge rather than replace a relatively inexpensive part. Thay may have even known that the RAM was bad, but did not bring that up because it would not have put as many dollars in their pockets. Posted by: Rob Cox | Oct 4, 07 02:44 AM

Excellent program. Very Informative. However, it would be nice to see how badly the large vendors compare. In my circle of friends there have been no end of troubles with the Big Boys. But as with cars the buyer must beware, education is the best defence. Take a small course on the weekend at a local college or community center. Do a few reinstalls by yourself and keep a record of the step by step process. Buy an external hard drive (200 gb about 125.00 to 200.00) and copy all your files to the external hard drive. Or copy all your files to a disc. Use passwords for all Word Documents as if they are copyed they cannot be easily opened. Use passwords to log on to Windows. In short, knowledge is the best defence. Posted by: Bob | Oct 4, 07 03:14 AM

This is exactly why a Knoppix disk and Google can be your best friends when an error message pops up. Knoppix runs even when your hard drive is dead and a Google search can pick up almost every error conceivable. Of course, you might be screwed if part of your hardware (besides the hard drive) dies. Posted by: Joe Bohanon | Oct 4, 07 03:22 AM

I'd like to defend some of the part costs... It's a little unfair to compare a repair company's pricing on items they have to keep in stock to a high-volume part seller with razor thin margins that supplies the other stores in the area. Posted by: Derek Quenneville | Oct 4, 07 03:44 AM

Unfortunately, this sort of thing isn't surprising to me. As an owner/operator in business for 7 years now myself, I find such things reprehensible and yet I often get new clients after such horror stories. As others have mentioned, the reporter's "wizards" were quoting low-ball prices but that's not all they did wrong, IMO. One bad system file could be resolved FAR shy of reinstalling the OS. Simply replace the file! Posted by: Current tech | Oct 4, 07 05:12 AM

What suprised me was not the fact that it happened but that all of the people on the show said to reinstall windows. Any good teacher or technician would have ran the repair option first and checked the bios and other diagnostics first before a diagnosis. Posted by: Ron Cameron | Oct 4, 07 06:20 AM

Your recent show on computer repair outfits had no problems naming the trouble makers, which I appreciate. However, the business you put on the spot about the corrupt system file that actually nailed it should have been recognized too. Posted by: Rob | Oct 4, 07 06:28 AM

When I was in school, they regularly did this as part of the coursework. And they intentionally screwed things up much worse than this. You had to get the PC running again, and come back with a list of problems that included everything the instructor messed up. Again there is some justification for some markup, but if you're not selling them the right part what is the benefit to the customer? Posted by: Trent Collicutt | Oct 4, 07 06:47 AM

The story as shown isn't completely fair. Expecting every tech for every company to stock (in the vehicle) ram for ANY kind of system is not logical. To keep all of those pieces in the van costs money. DDR, DDR2, SODIMM and different speeds and capacities the number of modules is staggering. It is all very easy to sit in an office and say this should be easy to find. Without a replacement part of suitable speed in stock an accurate diagnosis would be difficult. In fact, the video shows the only techs who solved the problems HAD an appropriate module int stock. Why is it that you can buy a case of soda at a wholesale club for as little as $.15 a can; but the vending machine at work charges $.60? Look at the markup here. Yet nobody complains. Your "experts" at humber don't have to buy insurances, pay for transportation costs, payroll, taxes, office space. They have little to no connection with the real world. With the laptop, after replacing the system files, of course I would look for WHY these files were missing/corrupted. It is the first question ANY customer would ask upon being told of the diagnosis. Windows corrupting just a few of its own files is rare. Spyware is far more likely. Also, Any virus/spyware scanner is going to change the date and time of file access. The "experts" on the college were disingenuous at best. RAM modules don't typically fail like that. A system that corrupts even one file could corrupt others. Bad RAM, bad cable, faulty motherboard are only a few of the possibilities. Do your experts at Humber not go into WHY this problem happened? Would you be any happier taking the system back a day or two later when it failed again? Posted by: Not a Geek | Oct 4, 07 06:59 AM

The culture of entitlement that has grown around personal computers is appalling. People seem to think that it's your divine right to have your computer fixed "For cheap" or often, "For free". Here's a thought: Learn to fix it yourself if you undervalue the service so much. Let's see the other side of the story, why not open some books for some PC shops and see just how much they really make off that $125 part. If you buy $25 RAM you deserve to have it fail inside of six months. Posted by: Sean | Oct 4, 07 09:02 AM

I have enjoyed Marketplace in the past for exposing fraudulent behavior in various industries but now I doubt the validity of those reports and the integrity of the reporters. I was appalled at how Marketplace "broke" the desktop and the laptop. As noted, in other posts, bad RAM causes the motherboard to beep. No beeps, then you move on. So did the tech at Humber disconnect the speaker? I also disagree that bad ram is a "common" problem. I have serviced too many computers to count and have only had 1 with bad Ram. As well, the corrupted system file on the laptop was spotted by tech and when asked...yeah probably a virus. That what I would have said because a virus corrupts systems files, it does not happen by itself. There is no doubt that the Nerds On Site guy got the diagnosis wrong but I wonder if he was no baited into questions that make him look bad. The worst part of the report is that it starts on bad premises and therefore lacks credibility. Shame on you guys for sensationalist journalism. You have tarnished the reputation of all computer techs with this report. I will look at further reports from Marketplace with a jaded eye. Posted by: Frustrated Tech | Oct 4, 07 10:19 AM

Great start to the season. I used Nerds On Site for the first time about a month ago. I e-mailed them, told them my problem and the nerd came to my door. He spent 2 1/2 hours at my place and was stumped but not for lack of trying. It was a weird situation. He found a way around my problem but not exactly how I wanted it. It was to do with the digital card reader built into the computer. It was showing up but not reading the cards from my camera. He called his boss as he thought his boss might have encountered a problem like mine before but no go. He wanted to find a solution but had to take off as he had other calls to attend to. He NEVER charged me because their calls are based on finding the solution rather than by the hour. Even though he found a way around my issue with an external card reader he did not fix my internal one so he did not charge me and I was all ready to pay no problem because he did find some sort of solution for me. He e-mailed me a few days ago to ask how things were going however I take it he never found the exact solution to my issue. I would use this guy again as I found him very professional. Posted by: Michael Walsh | Oct 4, 07 10:23 AM

The techs can only do what their instructors have taught them in class. In the segment despite handling sensitive electronic components nobody had an antistatic strap on or any proper grounding in place. The problem starts at school with the instructors and their lack of ability to teach proper troubleshooting skills, yes this includes your "experts" from Humber, for shame. Posted by: Brian | Oct 4, 07 10:27 AM

The techs can only do what their instructors have taught them in class. In the segment despite handling sensitive electronic components nobody had an antistatic strap on or any proper grounding in place. The problem starts at school with the instructors and their lack of ability to teach proper troubleshooting skills, yes this includes your "experts" from Humber, for shame. Posted by: Brian | Oct 4, 07 10:27 AM

Nice work on the story. It's too bad you missed the point in comparing ONSITE / In store pricing differences. If I had a car mechanic come to my house with a new transmission on hand, do you really think that I would be able to get the transmission for the same rate as a garage? It's onsite service. At least with technicians, we give you exact timing when we come to your house, unlike cable companies or shipping services who give you block time. You're paying for ppl's time and skill. Most car mechanics charge minimum 2hr rates for even a 30 minute job. I had to call for a server problem once, and they told me on the phone it was a $500 up front plus $160/hr. Also, I live in a small city so I had to provide the cost of the hotel for the technician. Mac Lai Posted by: Mac Lai | Oct 4, 07 10:47 AM

I have no doubt that many techs have no actually experience or real knowledge of how to fix computers. Most the techs were total asshats. The prices stated by CBC were way out of whack. $60 to reinstall windows!? Where do they go? What really killed me is the so called expert didn't advocate backing up the data and thought it was outlandish to be charged to have your data backed up. If your a descent tech the system file could be replaced. The price on RAM was too low as well. $25 dollars really?! Come on!!!! I would like to know what charity I mean business isn't going to charge a markup for RAM and for a minimum of a half hour of service to install the RAM; $120 wasn't outlandish for install a gig of RAM. Posted by: Jack Aaren Geiger | Oct 4, 07 11:24 AM

Extremely one sided but bery interesting reporting. I won't rehash everything that has already been said in previous posts that I agree with. I do find it disappointing that the tech's who fixed the problem were so quickly dismissed for doing there job right just because they charged for it. Also, the one tech who was unable to fix the problem with the "sabotaged" computer on-site and didn't charge for it was laughed at by one of your experts. I think that tech should be commended because he didn't make up a solution (like the other tech's did) and didn't charge for it (like the other tech's did). He was the kind of tech you said you were looking for - honest. Posted by: Jeff | Oct 4, 07 11:38 AM

some of these techs do guesses before they diagnose the computer. where i used to work , we run a hardware diagnose (floppy or cd) to test the hardware (for not posting). so if the ram was bad it would of been detected. for the laptop thing, the techs saying it's a virus because they think the system is corrupted and usually the system is corrupted by virus. so the assumption is a safe one however they should not tell customers that for sure it is caused by a virus. in a way this setup will confuse the techs (laptop setup) because system files usually do not corrupt themselves. Posted by: xin | Oct 4, 07 12:04 PM

Shame on your Erica Johnson for being so one-sided. As a very experienced techie I know there are often times it can be difficult to troubleshoot computer problems, especially on site!! I wonder how long it took your so called experts to find the bad RAM in the first place? And I am sure that was done on a work bench with spare parts to swap out. I am not saying all techs know what they are doing. I have worked with several college grads that have had so called, "computer degrees" and they had no idea how to troubleshoot a computer. Sorry but no amount of schooling can make up for experience in this case. With peer to peer software like Limewire being installed on that computer there is a very good chance it did have a virus as noted above by another poster. Posted by: Pro Techie | Oct 4, 07 12:09 PM

There is an issue with techs not knowing what they are doing. I was in the Ottawa Citizen newspaper article "beware of the geek" and I was the 1 out of the 4 techs in the Ottawa area that was able to solve the problem. It wasn't a sting operation like marketplace setup, a reporter for the Ottawa Citizen had an issue with his laptop and he brought it to two big box electronic shops and one small computer shop and they all said it was the system board and it would cost him a $1000 or more to have it fixed. He then brought it into me and the issue was a function key. The system display would turn off after the Compaq logo and then would not display anything, all it took was Function F5 and it worked. I did not charge him for the time spent because it took only 30 seconds. I think it is fair that on-site techs do markup the price of the parts they carry on hand, I just wish we knew how much he paid for the parts and what his markup was. The techs that were on the show and diagnosed the the computer wrong have no idea what they are doing. even if the you dint get any beeps doesn't mean you just guess at what parts are dead, trouble shoot. The nerd on site guy should of disconnected the hard drive and then tried booting the system, that way he would of ruled out that the hard drive was dead and would of avoided the $2000 room comment. This story was not one sided, they don't have time to show beep codes and all the little details because they would have to explain them to all the people that don't know anything about computers. This story was to help people that don't know a lot about computers and to make them aware of what to look for when they go to get their computers fixed. The bottom line is, the techs that were wrong and didn't take the time to properly diagnose the computer system were wrong and shouldn't be working in this line of work. Posted by: Rob | Oct 4, 07 12:19 PM

Why is it so acceptable for people to say things like "Oh, I don't understand computers" and leave it at that? They wear it like a badge of honour, even though most of us use a computer every single day. Never have I ever found ignorance to be so acceptable - with the exception of "fixing your own car" - and you probably think those guys are ripping you off too. It's tough to make a living in the GTA at $10/hr. These guys are driving all over the city and meeting customers who think that their job is "easy" and "not worth what they're asking". Posted by: Took the time to educate myself | Oct 4, 07 12:21 PM

Like that Nerd, I also have a 95%+ approval rating on Nerds and I would have failed as miserably in that test. From what I was able to collect from the programme: the system was not powering up, there were no POST beeps, and no display. Hard drive, processor, and motherboard failures are reasonable causes of those symptoms. The experts at Humber College were in no place to criticise honest efforts - it's easy to be smug when you know the answer to the question. Oh, and a word about POST beeps to the 'experts': they're not always consistent or existent, especially if you're using an off-the-shelf box. Posted by: A Nerd On Site | Oct 4, 07 12:22 PM

2:55 - "Little bits that are missing" what does that mean? Is there a memory chip that has been shorted out or did someone remove a few of the gold fingers? 3:08 - A broken RAM "part" should be $25 to replace. Does that include the service of installing it? These guys aren't RAM delivery boys. Maybe if the system has 256MB you could buy the stick for $25, but you have to buy it and install it yourself. 7:35 - "What they should do is reinstall Windows." Please, never take this advice as a first solution. At least she didn't say format the drive and reinstall Windows. Something is causing system file corruption, and it will still remain after reinstalling. You'll have wasted an hour of the client's time. It's band-aids instead of repairing the real problem. Sorry, client.. try sfc.exe first. 8:55 - There is always a minimum service fee - unless you're friends and family. Does knowing what you're doing make you worth less? 10:03 - Chris says the worst that can happen is that they charge you for backing up and reinstalling the OS. Didn't she first say that the solution was reinstalling the OS? I think the worst thing that can happen is that you take her advice at all. 10:38 - I couldn't find one DDR 256MB in stock anywhere. He's installing it and delivering it. Where does Steve find his deals? 11:50 - He gave you 1GB and he's right saying it's hard to find 256, though that's pricey for 1GB. 13:44 - Opening a property page will update that. If these files were suspected trojan droppers, it should be expected. 18:44 - Unheard of? Now this guy has obviously missed the problem, but data recovery is a real industry. If he was able to copy the files from the drive, then the $2000 solution was averted. All in all I agree that these techs were shoddy. Running MemTest86+ would have shown the memory error right away, but the corrupt system file requires malware scans and recovery time. Posted by: CC | Oct 4, 07 12:24 PM

Nice to know your experts at Humber College Institute buy $25 dollar RAM. No wonder they are good at finding bad RAM modules. Posted by: Brian Johnson | Oct 4, 07 12:40 PM

As the owner of a small home based computer business, I was appaled at what I saw. First things first, you don't diagnose a PC without even turning it on. Any good tech who is A+ certified knows their beep codes, and could have told you what the problem was in 5 minutes. As far as what they are charging it's crazy. I charge $65 for any part of three hours. So if I work on your computer for 45 minutes it's $65 and If I work on it for 3 hours it's still only $65. 99% of the problems can be fixed within 3 hours. Call your local neighbourhood tech who works out of his house. His prices will be Far cheaper, and you will get alot better service. I have over 100 clients, who I know on a first name basis and are very happy with my service, as I take the time to explain things, in common english, so everyone can understand. As far as the guy quoting ram for $25, where did he come up with that? His corporate pricing plan, or some used computer part store. Besides, would you rather have a tech tell you oh the memory''s going to cost you $50 installed or order in online, pay shipping and try and put it in yourself and risk screwing up your system. All of my clients are more than happy to pay a little bit more when I have the product with onsite, so they have the least amount of downtime. If I don't have the part with me, then I don't charge them again if I have to come back and install it, I only charge them for the part. 99% of the time if I haven't got the part in stock, I will have it the next day and be able to install it. Like I said before, Big box stores and guys like Nerds, and Grade A techs are a joke. Posted by: Jason | Oct 4, 07 01:28 PM

Wow, what an interesting first episode of the season. I find it a little unfortunate that it was presented as a fear mongering campain, but the unfortunate truth remains. An industry that was once reserved for the really technically savey has now been opened up to anyone. I remember when EI started retraining injured truck drivers to be technicians thinking how the industry was changing. With low qualification requiresments just to fill spaces due to demand, the quality of the service is going down. And now that companies have realized the profits they can make on a strictly labor industry it's less service and more sales. There really are two breeds of computer technicians, those who want to give you service and those who want to sell you service. Posted by: Don | Oct 4, 07 01:58 PM

I'm not at all surprised by your findings. I have 20 years of experience and find that those who truly understand computers have better jobs. They are programmers, system administrators. They have jobs that pay $50,000 to $150,000 a year. The home repair guys are paid just over minimum wage. Who can you get for that rate? Not an expert. I figured out how much I'd have to charge to equal my programming pay (with overhead). To spend an hour fixing a computer, I should charge what a doctor or lawyer charges. That's the level of expertise a real computer expert brings to the table. But nobody wants to pay for it. I help my friends with their computers. I'll spend time with someone who asks me questions. But I cannot ever see myself in the computer repair business. It just isn't worth it. Posted by: A Geek Life | Oct 4, 07 02:01 PM

I realize it sells better if you make it sound like it's the end of the world, but the reporters come off about as trustworthy as the nerd they end up grilling. Posted by: Mike Simmons | Oct 4, 07 02:17 PM

In my experience as an IT technician I've found that most people don't know (and don't want to know) what's going on inside their computers. This makes them easy prey. A recent article made the point that the companies that offer computer repair services to home and small-office users would rather have a staff of salespeople who can do some basic computer repair than truly skilled and experienced technicians who can also sell their goods and services because they can get away with paying salespeople less than they would have to pay well-trained technicians. Posted by: streetleveltech | Oct 4, 07 03:08 PM

As a technology service professional and an alumnus of Nerds On Site, I have to say that the scene featuring their technician was positively dreadful. While watching David Redekop watch the entire scenario unfold, my heart broke too. In the defense of my former colleagues, I have to say that what you see here is entirely contrary to the culture of this great organization. I am in the unique position of having serviced clients as an EntrepreNERD, done work for Nerds On Site corporate under David Redekop'’s personal direction, and maintained a company-wide vendor relationship offering services to individual Nerds, with both my current and previous employers. My experience in these capacities has given me a large sampling of the kind of people who make up Nerds On Site. By and large, they are professionals who are a pleasure to deal with, have the utmost of integrity, and the best interests of their clients at heart. I know for a fact that there are far more positive customer survey results than negative ones. Please do not paint the entire organization with the same brush as you would the "“Headline Nerd”" from this story. "Not A Geek" and others make good points about the fairness of this test, so I shall not repeat them. That said, David Redekop put it best: "This is a wakeup call for all of us!”" This piece demonstrates that there are opportunities for improvement and lessons to be learned by all computer service professionals and organizations. For the good of the public and the sake of our profession, I hope we learn them well. Posted by: Chris | Oct 4, 07 03:15 PM

We received the following comment from Best Buy in response to last night's story. We want to share it with our viewers (in two parts). --- We believe that our Geek Squad Agents have an excellent reputation and provide a valued, trusted service to our customers. We receive ongoing feedback from customers whose testimonials often rave about the expertise and knowledge of our agents, the value in the cost of service and their overall satisfaction with their Geek Squad experience. Several of these testimonials are available on our website at GeekSquad.ca. Our policy is for all agents to be A+ certified within 90 days of employment if they aren't already at the time that they are hired. While the vast majority of our agents have post secondary education related to computers, all our agents have significant experience and aptitude in IT and computer sciences. In addition, many agents are certified by manufacturers such as Hewlett Packard, Compaq and Apple. The Geek Squad also has multiple agents that are Microsoft Small Business Server and MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) certified. Despite the considerable labour challenges that we, (like other retail and service sector businesses) face, we do not compromise on our high standards for employment. With the high level of technical, industry and company experience required to meet the needs of our customers, all of our over 300 Geek Squad Agents are compensated at rates significantly above minimum wage. Salary is just one component of their overall benefits package. Posted by: Bret, CBC Web Producer | Oct 4, 07 03:24 PM

(Part 2 of the response from Best Buy) --- All Best Buy stores and our Geek Squad Agents are non-commissioned. While we have store level sales targets (which is consistent with other retail organizations), Geek Squad Agents do not have individual sales targets and we do not track the sales of our agents. There are circumstances in which a Geek Squad agent will recommend the purchase of a new computer as an alternative to repair however this is based on multiple factors. Some of these factors include: * The nature of the specific issue with the computer * The assessment of the overall state and age of the computer * The current and future computing needs of the customer with a potential desire for upgrades * The cost of repair versus the continuously decreasing cost of purchasing a new computer Posted by: Bret, CBC Web Producer | Oct 4, 07 03:29 PM

(Part 3 of the response from Best Buy) --- Response Regarding Customer Privacy Concerns * Protecting our customer's privacy is a priority for our company and as such, we have a very comprehensive customer privacy policy in place as well as a customer-facing privacy policy. The Geek Squad is committed to ensuring our customers have the highest level of security and protection for their private and personal information and often suggest ways in which customers can enhance the privacy and security levels to ensure they are further protected. Full details of this commitment to our customers are available to through our website at www.GeekSquad.ca . * We take every effort to ensure that our employees know the proper protocols to follow when it comes to customer privacy and employees are reminded frequently that operating outside the rules is not tolerated. * For example, our strict privacy policy is included in our new hire training, a part of standard operating procedures that govern protocols on customer interaction and in addition, on an annual basis we have an entire "privacy week" dedicated to discussing and engaging our employees around topics related to customer privacy. Thank you. Sincerely, Heather Seabrook Communications Specialist Posted by: Bret, CBC Web Producer | Oct 4, 07 03:30 PM

(Part 3 of Best Buy response) Response Regarding Customer Privacy Concerns * Protecting our customer's privacy is a priority for our company and as such, we have a very comprehensive customer privacy policy in place as well as a customer-facing privacy policy. The Geek Squad is committed to ensuring our customers have the highest level of security and protection for their private and personal information and often suggest ways in which customers can enhance the privacy and security levels to ensure they are further protected. Full details of this commitment to our customers are available to through our website at www.GeekSquad.ca . * We take every effort to ensure that our employees know the proper protocols to follow when it comes to customer privacy and employees are reminded frequently that operating outside the rules is not tolerated. * For example, our strict privacy policy is included in our new hire training, a part of standard operating procedures that govern protocols on customer interaction and in addition, on an annual basis we have an entire "privacy week" dedicated to discussing and engaging our employees around topics related to customer privacy. Thank you. Sincerely, Heather Seabrook Communications Specialist Posted by: Bret, CBC Web Producer | Oct 4, 07 03:34 PM

After watching the video, I was quite shock about the differences in terms of standards we have today in computer tech. Frankly, housecalls are hard to do. The tech doesn't neccessary have all the tools to diagnose the problem on the spot. My takes on the 2 scenerio: Based on the first scenerio, the desktop has a broken RAM. Apparantly the system does not POST. RAM is the least item that would get damage, so I don't agree with CBC that it is a simple problem, it is tricky I have to say. I would diagnose the system has motherboard problem because damage RAM can still boot the computer, just the BIOS won't do a full POST. Most system does not have Pre-Boot diagnostic program built in the BIOS, it is very time consuming to test out RAM modules because of the large sizes RAM people has. In system that does not POST, under A+ certification would have to narrow down the issues by removing all components, an boot the system with each components one at a time. It is a time consuming process and I don't think house-call would fit to do this type of work. Based on the second scenerio, how often people have corrupted system files when there is no virus infection? There must be something to cause file corruptions and I can't but to agree most techs would suspect virus because Windows normally would self-heal from corrupted system files. The tech in Infonec is merely lazy, he doesn't want to take the system in by telling the customer to restore the system with the disc. Simple no-brainer approach. His manager would probably be mad because he literally sent away business. Posted by: Phil | Oct 4, 07 03:39 PM

As an owner of a computer sales and service store I quite enjoyed this little take on our PC repair industry. The general public does need a wake up call! It does boil down to a lack of knowledge by the consumer, coupled with unreal expectations of the consumer. If I buy a new car, I don't expect the dealership to show me how to drive it for free, or show me how and where to fill up with gas, or how to change the transmission out, or replace a piston. However, in the PC industry it seems that if client purchases a PC, the general feeling is that any work done or advice given should be FREE. This lovely little problem is propogated nicely by the Marketplace feature that summarizes a bad ram diagnosis as "well, right here online that stick of ram is $25". Sure, what about the initial diagnosis, looking up the part, ordering the part, paying freight, and installing the part? Based on this program I guess I should continue to sell my slim margin products and install them for free, while dispensing free advice. I'm sure my staff will enjoy it when I ask if they want to work for free. Posted by: Mark Bodner | Oct 4, 07 03:54 PM

I can't believe that no one in the USA knows this. Oh well, horrible customer service = horrible prices. The amazing thing is that if you go to a local pc shop (or a good local chain), you'll probably get your computer fixed. People have no clue that they're being ripped off these days. Posted by: Private | Oct 4, 07 04:46 PM

I don't think anyone is saying that people shouldn't get paid for their services (whether it is 5 minutes or 2 hours) but they shouldn't have to pay for something that isn't needed (basically the whole point of this episode) which is dishonest. If they were honest they would go through a check list (loose connections, damaged hardware, then software) instead of just moving parts around then suggesting that they need to send their computer to a clean room or keeping their computer for a longer than they need like a week charging X amount of dollars even though they are not working on the computer. While I have no qualms really with the pricing of the ram as people can charge what they want just in any retail store but what I would have liked to know was if they made you purchase the part from them after they found out what was wrong with the computer or if they allowed the customer to just pay for the diagnosis and let them purchase the part elsewhere on their own. I don't know why there are people defending and deflecting the issue of these dishonest practices. Yes, it happens in other industries and they too need to be exposed. Posted by: York | Oct 4, 07 05:33 PM

after watching the 30 min eps. I guess I can only agree on half of the stuff. First thing first, I am NOT a computer service tech, but consider I've putting together and fixing my own (and friend's) computers about 18 years ago, I would say I do know my computers and enough to get by without calling the tech. So, first test, the memory burn out. I don't know how many on site tech will carry a spare piece of RAM in their pocket, most of the time i would expect they face software problem instead of hardware one. Also, out of the main component of the computer, RAM is probably the last thing to break. I mean, HDD can be dead due to wearout or bad shutdown, CPU dead due to fan die and overheated, motherboard got ESD shocked, video got overheat, etc. but RAM is probably last thing to die, unless you open it up and ESD shock it. if the tech didn't have a spare ram to test, they can only reach to the point that HDD is not dead. since if your ram is dead, it won't even boot up. So it could get tricky to track it down. (some will say there are beep code, but com'on, every motherboard company has their own beep code, so good luck guessing it) the 2nd test, with corrupted system file. as some of the comment above mention, i would say those who said is cause by virus is completely wrong. Most of the time a system file corrupted are actually cause by virus or malware. other cause could be improper shutdown/crash, data lost, or other software installation. the bottom line is, NO ONE would expect a user to purposely PLANT a corrupted sys file. so yes, i am sure all of them see is a corrupted file, but what causes it would still most likely be a virus. .... continue... Posted by: Kirk Lau | Oct 4, 07 05:37 PM

As for the fix, well, I am sure every tech will have different way to fix. Most will reinstall the OS (in this case would be windows, but than .. those who use linux would probably won't bring it to a shop anyway), some might even just replace the file. but of course, the cleanest way would be reinstall OS. As for charge and not telling you that you can just fix it "easily" by reinstalling. This is more like changing the oil for your car. Lot of people will say its "easy" as well, since you just drain the oil to a bucket, fill it back up and correctly dispose it. however, most of use still take it to the shop and pay 20-50 bucks for someone to do it. besides, where the heck you going to dump the oil! Same thing here, yes, you just reinstall windows, but what about reinstalling all the drivers, transfering data and registry to the new OS, your user profile, etc. There are a lot of follow ups after reinstalling. Lastly, the privacy thing, is a define no-no. That's like stealing... especially the case that he just open other's photo and copy them to his laptop. most people don't know better about this. But then, most people don't even know online and network security either. How many house/apartments have open wireless networks, how many people sent out their personal info to website without knowing. And how many people actually read the agreement when they click agree on those site that you can post photo. Just like the small text on this page for posting... "By submitting your comments, you acknowledge that CBC has the right to reproduce, broadcast and publicize those comments or any part thereof in any manner whatsoever. Please note that due to the volume of comments we receive, not all comments will be published, and those that are published may be edited." .... Posted by: Kirk Lau | Oct 4, 07 05:38 PM

No big surprise. If you want to get your computer fixed. Best thing to do is fix it yourself. Just like fixing your car you need to be mechanically inclined and intelligent or you will keep losing money Posted by: Andy | Oct 4, 07 06:17 PM

If you look at the 24:34 mark you'll see that they're using Limewire. Nice way to advertise software that could get you in trouble. Posted by: Mark | Oct 4, 07 06:29 PM

Did you notice the "broken RAM part" was supposed to be a 25$ fix but then the person looked it up online for 65$? How would the person feel if the technician diagnosed the problem, told the woman to order it online, wait for it to be shipped, then waited for him to come back to install it? The "client" in question wants this fixed fast and in her home right? She *should* be paying extra for that service. The conveience of not having to unhook the PC and bring it someplace and wait for it to be diagnosed among many other PC's, that were dropped off before yours. Waiting in line for your turn, what a novel idea! This customer was offered 4x the RAM for 2x the price that a 256 chip was online, and getting it installed right there? What is the problem with that? System corruption is almost *always* caused by virus and spyware nowadays. It's not a stretch to blame system corruption on a virus/spyware. How does ANYONE know what was on the system before the system file was corrupted by the saboteurs? It's fully possible this system was not clean beforehand. Also, data loss CAN occur even with a reinstall (overlay as the saboteurs said would fix it) of Windows. It's not the "worst case" to offer data backup before ANYTHING is done with the system files. What if you reinstall windows and the documents and settings folder is overwritten? What if the laptop in question only had a restore CD or partition? What if the owner does not have a windows disk? Not like Microsoft just hands out copies of Windows to PC repair shops to just use on whoever's machines they want. There are legalities involved, OEM agreements, EULA's, etc that PC repair shops (should) abide by. Sometimes a missing system file is not easily repaired if the above conditions are true. The video failed to address any of that. They make it sound so simple. There are obviously problems here, but blown out of proportion by mistakes and information that is left out by the saboteurs. Posted by: AnonGeek | Oct 4, 07 07:11 PM

I've been a computer tech for 15 yrs. When you see someone suggest taking your hard drive to a clean room for $2000 for data recovery and then proceed to extract data from your hard drive to their laptop the alarm bells should sound !!!. Look for A+ certification and don't go for home repairs because to test the PC properly it will take space, time and the proper tools in most cases. Testing a laptop drive with limewire on it ....... of course viruses . I don't think they scanned the machine before hand? A good tip is to blow the dust out of your computers once in awhile. Most of the hardware failures I see are due to excessive heat caused by dust. Posted by: Greg | Oct 4, 07 07:45 PM

Good catch by the posters who spotted Limewire on the laptop. Which raises the question, whose computer was this? Are the techies you use music/video pirates or is the CBC? And it being there probably does answer why software spotted a virus and/or spyware. I also will agree with all who have commented regarding the price of RAM: it would have been a far better report to just show they diagnosed the problem and installed the RAM. The price issue was horribly biased. Posted by: David Garrett | Oct 4, 07 08:04 PM

The techs I work with know that one of the first things you do with failing h/w is to disconnect the hard drive in case of SMART errors or physical problems, check the motherboard for leaky capacitors, test the power supply (the testing units cost $10) then finally run MemTest86+ to check out the RAM. This is all before diagnosing most software related problems. To think a RAM problem is related to the hard drive is nothing short of incompetence at the least. Posted by: Teo | Oct 4, 07 08:10 PM

Average hourly wage for a tech dude willing to work on your computer is like $10. You expecting a expert like a doctor who spends 8 years in medical school? Tech industry doesn't work that way. Posted by: Ben | Oct 4, 07 08:12 PM

I am so proud of my national franchise we dont act like any of those techs. I wont say which one but our founder is on CNBC all the time. But first you are acting like the typical customer that thinks they know what they need and then they end up paying more in the long run cause they were impatient and cheap. Quality Computer Repair companies will never do "quick and easy" fixes. That's like filling the foundation of a sinking house with sand. It will only work for so long. If you can find the part cheaper then go for it. And when it breaks you can handle the warranty and RMA for it as well. Seeing how you are so savvy. Do you go to the doctor and say "doc I have a sore throat, I need some antiboitics. And thats all I need doc" of course not. You'd be a fool. Same way. You dont get a corrupted system file for no reason. Would you rather go home knowing that every possible area of computer has been checked, assessed and fixed? Even if you have an issue that is not related to your original problem it will be fixed for free during the warranty period? or would you rather spend cash on a bandaid. Lastly, if another guy is cheaper then go use him. Or if you can find a part cheaper go for it. It's no skin off our back. You evidently called for a reason, the reason being you don't know what you're doing in the first place. Posted by: D K | Oct 4, 07 08:17 PM

I have been doing computer repair for 15 years. I can honestly see how some of these techs have come up with some of the conclusions. Absolutely some were bogus. But saying the motherboard may be bad would be reasonable in the situation you had brought to the tech. Unless they have other parts to test, it is a hard decision to make if there is no post screen. In that instance usually what I would recommend is letting us take it to our repair shop to correctly diagnose. Quite frankly the pricing also that is given by your Humber College Computer people is close but once again you are paying for the convenience of not having to do it yourself. It is not different than going out for a meal. You pay $10 for a meal you could have prepared at home for $5 not to mention gas to drive there. I do not agree with the techs on the laptop saying you had a lot of spyware or viruses they removed(albeit there was limewire and some other programs showing that you may have had some kind of spyware or virus) but it would not be out of the ordinary for a virus to corrupt a system file causing an error. Where I work we charge $40 a half hour with a standard fee of $80 dollars for reloading windows. This is actually an extremely low price in the field. Take into consideration that a reload of windows takes roughly 1-4 hours after updating, granted the tech is by the machine for about a half hour - 45 minutes of the reload it is taking up space in their workplace for that amount of time. Posted by: Cody | Oct 4, 07 08:17 PM

HEY DON! I am Home/Small Office repair and I make 45K. Hate to burst your bubble. But programmers have to call us to fix their hardware. Posted by: DON | Oct 4, 07 08:22 PM

Although I look with disgust and embarrassment at the ineptitude of the techs, I have to say that a "broken" RAM module is something quite unexpected in normal diagnosis. Not impossible, but not the norm. I also don't think it's fair to expect a company to sell a RAM module or anything else in a computer for the price an individual can get it online. What about company overhead? What about the costs of doing business and maintaining a business?? Any repair facility be it auto, appliance, etc. charges much more for the parts. It's just that it's expensive to run a business. Having said that, unethical behaviour such as copying private data is inexcusable. All in all, a very sad commentary on the computer repair business! Posted by: Tony - Independent consulting | Oct 4, 07 08:22 PM

This is what happens when you go for the cheap route. Qualified technicians charge at least US$75/hour (including travel time). Buy bargain service and get what you pay for. Posted by: micker | Oct 4, 07 08:41 PM

That was an interesting MarketPlace. I use to work at a big chain that had a tech area. And from seeing them work and fix computer I think this episode was unfair. RAM for one thing isn't alway only 69 dollars, it depends on many factors like brand and size and type. Also, in most places people to have certification like the A+ but learning from experience is how people can really develop themselves. Also, I think you could of used different average joe guys they seemed very biased and negative. Also, you can't judge all companies or businesses by one person or thing. Thats like me saying I hate investigative media because I was unhappy with this one episode. Posted by: SFC | Oct 4, 07 08:55 PM

First of all, PC problems aren't always easy to diagnose. Sure, it's easy for the people that put a faulty stick of RAM and say, "Well, duh, the RAM is bad, why would you replace anything else." The techs on site were probably faced with a random Windows blue screen and no other knowledge of what was going on with the PC. Any given blue screen can mean a handful of things are wrong with the computer from defective memory, corrupted hard disk, or bad motherboard. While I don't excuse incompetent techs (especially those charging $90+/hr) that have no business being out in the field, a competent tech *might* have just as much trouble. Granted, a good tech would have isolated the problem by isolating individual components on the computer and/or running diagnostics test, but we have no idea what kind of "clues" these techs had to go off of. The news piece can be reported without mentioning this for the same reason that techs can take advantage of people: the public isn't knowledgeable enough to have discernment when it comes to issues with their personal computer. Second, the market dictates the price of replacement parts and service. As long as the company is charging the same overpriced rates for parts and service to every customer (and not gouging certain ones), there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. So a guy on the news piece pulls up a $60 stick of 1GB off of some random site...neat. There's a premium for PC parts from certain stores just like there is with any other product. Your mechanic charges your more for parts that you buy from him than you would pay at a wholesale auto parts store, so why should the PC market be any different? Posted by: M | Oct 4, 07 08:56 PM

Another thing these companies do is train the techs to look for illegal porn. The problem with this is that they then have to look through all your other files. It is a violation of your expectations as a consumer. It may or may not be in compliance with the stores privacy policy. In either case backing up data is not the same thing as violating a consumers privacy if it is line with replace a hard drive. The one tech guy appears to have been trying to solve the problem even if it was incorrectly. The hard drive backup he was doing was not for the purpose of violating anybody's privacy. Posted by: Jone | Oct 4, 07 08:57 PM

Those techs are not to blame. Most of the blame comes from corporate. Low wages only attract guys who know just enough to make money, then, being that they know nothing and require to meet a sales quota, the only thing they can do is lie to get a sale. I say put pressure on the damn founders. This is how every industry is, lower wages and more profits regardless of what practice is used. Really... do you think those techs will even see a dime if they were to sell anything? They do it to keep their job. I have a buddy who I gave a 1 hour lesson on building his own PC was well qualified to work for Geek Squad. Now Geek Squad does have some pretty decent techs but the majority of them don't know the difference between a hard drive and a keyboard. Sad but this is what america is coming down to. Low pay, unskilled workers galore. I'm surprised on what they have to do for the amount of salary they get. Posted by: Samuel | Oct 4, 07 08:58 PM

Its easy to know why a virus may have been detected where none may have existed in the first place. Anti-virus software now uses adaptive scanning which are suppose to catch "zero-day" viruses that have not been seen before. However, these better scanners can sometimes mistake other files as potential viruses. Also it's hard to say your test computer was actually clean unless you had a completely fresh install, isolated from the internet, and just test data planted on it. Often during diagnostics only one anti virus scanner is used which is never the right way to do it. (Most of the major anti-virus companies products can not deal with 100% of the viruses out there unlike what they want you to believe). The best anti-virus software is yourself. Posted by: Me | Oct 4, 07 09:29 PM

I agree with poster "Mark" . I get so many customers that say it is my fault when they re-infect their computer and expect me to remove the infections for free. As for the price of the part, this is Canada is it not. Am I not allowed to make a profit? Posted by: tom davis | Oct 4, 07 09:51 PM

Simple, Don't buy service from a store that also sells parts, by design they are pushed to sell more and more. I've been in the support business for almost 10 years and I refused to sell hardware from day one, because I didn't want my advice/recommendation to reflect what parts I can sell. I am sure there'll be a lot of local support companies that only provide support. Posted by: Raj | Oct 4, 07 09:59 PM

I'm in the computer repair business and I'm not surprised about the untrained techs. Wages for techs have gotten so low that all of the people who know what they are doing have moved on to better jobs. However, another side to this story is that there are lots of people out there who expect to get their computer repaired for $10 even if it takes 3 hours to do it. Also, if you go with the big-name companies who drive the fancy cars, etc, expect to pay a premium for that. The guy who does it in his garage has lower expenses and often charges less. As for the bad service onsite, it is very difficult to supervise employees when they work offsite everyday. Customer feedback is all they have to go on. Posted by: David Murray | Oct 4, 07 10:02 PM

[Part 1/2] I couldn't stop laughing at the initial computer technicians, they all looked so foolish and not in any way amicable. Any real technician will run through a list of items that can prevent a computer from booting. Some can be severe such as a PSU/Motherboard going, or simple as ram frying and requiring a quick a swap if they have the ram, but I didn't see that happening. A little about me, I'm a 4th year university student I've built my own computer, I look after my immediate family's computer, and my extended family's computers, further my major isn't even in computer sciences, nor engineering, it's in finance. Its really not that hard to learn, and the problems I've encountered on my home computer, are prevalent in the real world, i.e viruses, spam, spyware, dying hd/psu, corrupt files that would cover, I would say 90% of the problems. The best way to avoid being ripped off, gouged, fleeced, whatever term you wish to call it, is to know someone that has a proper understanding of computers. Paying more doesn't necessarily mean better service, parts or etc. I admit some problems take time to resolve, I've had issues come up that took awhile to figure out, but if the computer has been operating well, and a problem suddenly happens then make note of it, what were you doing etc. be proactive... It makes the technician's job easier, and keeps more green in your wallet or purse. Posted by: Bobby | Oct 4, 07 10:10 PM

[Part 2/2] But overall, find out someone from a family member, a friend, or a co-worker, ask about the price/turnaround time. Word of mouth is the greatest device for business, any true business wouldn't screw over their customer for a quick buck, when they can make more from a repeat happy customer who has the possibility of increasing business. The ironic thing is a good friend of mine and I were thinking of launching our own computer repair business today, he already does it on the side, and I pitched the idea to him and well, we'll see where that goes. But with our competitors like this, I personally don't think finding frustrated customers looking for honest "computer repairmen" at reasonable rates would be that difficult. Posted by: Bobby | Oct 4, 07 10:12 PM

Having seen the video, I felt it necessary for me to respond to the accusation of over-charging for the 1GB DDR Ram I installed. If anyone checked on BestBuy's website you will see that a 1GB DDR 400, no-name Ram (KingMicroMax)currently sells for $89.95 or $102.54(Tax included). So the $120.00 that I charged for a top quality Kingston 1GB DDR 400 Ram was very reasonable when you take into consideration that it was delivered on-site. If you order the ram and have it delivered to your home within the same day that you called for service I assure you, you will pay a lot more for the express delvery. Besides we are running an on-site computer repair service and we have to factor in our inventory costs, administration, advertising, travelling expenses, etc... At Doctor Dave we have a minimum service charge of 1 Hour. But since I managed to diagnosed and fixed the problem in less than 30 minutes I only charged $40 for my service fee. Try calling a Plumber or Electrician to your house to fix a leaking pipe or electrical problem. From my past experiences, a Plumber or Electrician charges $100 just to show up at your home and a lot more to fix the problem. In this particular case, the PC in question gave the usual Ram errors with the beeps and I immediately knew what I was up against. But I only had the 1 GB Ram with me so to fix the problem so that the "customer" can get to use her computer immediately I install the I GB Ram instead of leaving the job to get a 256 MB Ram which would end up more costly when my time is factored in. Besides the PC had Windows XP and the 1 GB Ram will boost the performance significantly. Nowadays PCs come with at least 1 GB Ram. The higher end PCs even have 2 GB Ram. I am proud to say that at Doctor Dave all our Technicians are well trained and have many years experience behind them. We guarantee our work have always be there for our loyal customers. Posted by: David Chan (Doctor Dave) | Oct 4, 07 10:13 PM

I agree with Market Place regarding the necessity for standardization (A+ certification means nothing) but some of their control points were wrong. Along with what Bret has mentioned about customers assuming everything is free, the work involved in diagnosing problems and installing an operating system is very tedious and time consuming. $60 is a very low price, which is fine for a simple windows installation fee (no diagnosing). However, if you want a diagnoses, backup and installation, $80-100 seems more than reasonable for the amount of work involved and the required hardware to complete the task (Yes the hardware cost to complete backups will probably be recuperated in a few fixes but trying to locate someone's personal data if need be is insanely time consuming and then there is the media to give to the customer if requested). Also the technician who advised marketplace to go home and do the installation yourself failed to mention that you will lose ALL of the data you have on your hard drive. Usually you do have important files on your computer that you can not afford to loose. Taking the time to locate, backup and restore the files is time consuming as most people do not have all their files in 1 location. Also, putting a general price on RAM is like saying a Toyota Tercel is the same as a Ferrari 360 Spider. There are different types, sizes and timings to RAM to consider and yes 256MB of RAM maybe $25, but is that DDR, DDR2, PC-133? Posted by: Justin | Oct 4, 07 10:20 PM

Also i noted in the video that the college removed resistors from a RAM chip. This practice is very suspect as removing components on a working chip could have very unpredictable results ranging from out of design limit voltages or worse a short out which would have fried your motherboard, cpu, ram, etc. My high school's old computers were fitted with a RAM chip that basically exploded electronically releasing large amounts of the "magic smoke" that ruins electronics. Later inspection revealed that a electrical fault occurred causing charring on the motherboard and chip rendering the entire computer useless. I would have to say that its a bad idea to mess around with hardware if you do not know exactly what your doing. Posted by: Hello again | Oct 4, 07 10:38 PM

Always cary DDR, SDRAM, and DDR2 on hand. One stick will do. Just check the hardware, it doesn't turn on! No grey areas. Try something new for a change people, instead of formatting try fixing the problem. At the very least think to use google. People who didn't know this kind of incompetence exists has obviously never had to hire people who think they are geeks. There is no excuse. All the companies involved should have class action lawsuits filed against. Moreover the one guy at the local place who said do it on your own should get an award. However half the time the patron will format+reinstall without knowing they did so. Most appalling look at the truth ever, all these people give real geeks a bad name. Posted by: Its this simple. | Oct 4, 07 11:22 PM

Ram failure is about as common as February 29, so the average kid who just got his A+ a month ago will not even think of this. 99 percent of computers that won't behave are infected with some sort of malware, not a bad piece of hardware. When you do have a bad video card or motherboard, there are usually signs such as swollen or leaking capacitors. Again, this is something some kid won't even think to look for. Posted by: Matthew Brown | Oct 4, 07 11:24 PM

People are stupid and should pay premium for knowledge and house calls. But they should get what they pay for, highly trained technicians that are not holding second agendas. Posted by: mike rotch | Oct 4, 07 11:28 PM

1. In the Demo, they only show 1 RAM Stick. If that is bad, it is impossible to diagnose whether the RAM is bad, or there is an issue with the Motherboard. If it's REALLY dead, there won't even be a system beep. 2. Expecting a Home Repair Tech to have ALL possible combinations of RAM for a computer is UNREALISTIC. Is is PC100, DDR? DDR2? 3. Yea, i can buy parts a LOT Cheaper then they are selling them if I shop sales. However, next time you take your Car to the dealer, tell them to NOT use THEIR Parts, use the ones you bought at the Kragen. See how that goes over? Tell the Plumber that you can buy the pipe cheaper at Home Depot and see what he thinks? Expect FULL RETAIL for parts (and a little). 4. Most Shops have a Minimum. Take your car in and see how much they are going to charge you to change a fuse, explain to them it should only take a few minutes? Posted by: Dan - Computer Geek | Oct 4, 07 11:41 PM

I have used Geek Squad services on two occasions. They have setup my wireless network and repaired my Dell. Your commentary regarding pricing is not really right as all Geek Squad services are predetermined based on what service is in question regardless of how long it actually takes to do. The reason for writing this is because I was quite happy with the service and the person who was over at the house. Posted by: Dian | Oct 4, 07 11:48 PM

does everyone forget one very SIMPLE thing here. If you could fix it yourself, you wouldn't be calling us techs. You pay for a service. Not all techs are created equal, but nonetheless, you wouldn't be calling them if you could do it. Posted by: geek | Oct 4, 07 11:57 PM

I owned a computer service business and went out of business. Users do not care to take the time to educate themselves. Every one has a emergency and wants the computer fixed now. No one wants to pay anyting. I finally got out of the tech business after a person from church called with a "emergency", I spent 3 hours fixing and restoring and was about to hand him my discounted bill, but he shove a 5 dollar bill in my hand and said thanks. then I new how my customers valued my service. I got a job at Microsoft the next week. To all users I say RTFM! Posted by: Alex | Oct 5, 07 12:15 AM

I worked in a small computer store as the primary (and except for a short period) the only technician for 7 years - From 1994 until 2001. The store originally was a three person operation until it was bought out in 1998 by another company. They brought in their two technicians, who both left within a short period of time. I stayed on until I was fired for not ripping a person off by installing a new motherboard when their problem was a modem damaged by lighting. I tried to go into a home repair business myself but after being ripped off by 2 different customers in a month I gave up and pursued another line of work. I honestly can't say I am suprised by this report considering many of the stories I have heard from customers who came from other companies, and by the behavior towards the end of the new management. It used to be the guys who repaired your computers by and large *were* computer geeks and they lived and breathed computers. For me the job was a dream come true, and I sincerely enjoyed the job for the majority of the time. Not so much anymore from what some of my contacts in that industry say. Posted by: M Perrino | Oct 5, 07 12:25 AM

I took A+ and Net+ certification courses. Half way through the A+ course I was bored stiff. The material is all in a book that is too old to be relevant to most of todays computer problems. Selling someone an all new computer as a fix is the easy way out. The reason their skills are lacking in diagnosis is due to the fact that exam questions to get certified are all presented in multiple choice. All you have to have to pass is a good memory. Posted by: Ken Shipman | Oct 5, 07 12:31 AM

Sorry, but your investigation is too eager to point fingers. Here's why: 1. Bad RAM is not that easy to diagnose, especially for on-call PC techs. If your computer does not boot at all, there are a host of different possible causes. A PC tech would be required to carry several types of RAM (DDR, DDR2, SDRAM, RDRAM...) with him if he was to make a proper diagnosis. Otherwise, it's just a "best guess" situation. In my experience, it's rare for RAM to "go bad". It's more common for power supplies to blow and shorts to occur on the motherboard. 2. The prices you claim it would take to fix the problem is too low. It covers only the cost of the replacement parts, but not the service of coming to your door, the diagnosis and installation. It's easy if you know how to do it, but so is filing a tax return. You pay for the service in addition to the parts. 3. After that PC tech is able to fix your RAM DIMM problem for only $35, you turn around and have your "expert" criticize him with the comment: "you can get SIMM on a RAM for half that". That statement doesn't make sense at all. 4. When a system file is corrupt on your PC, chances are, it was corrupted by SOMETHING. Whether it be a virus, spyware, bad RAM, a dying drive... who knows. Your "expert" says the worse case scenario is they charge you to back up your data and reformat. I'm sorry, but any PC tech worth their salt WILL back up your data before performing a system repair. There are others, but I think this gets my point across... Posted by: Tom | Oct 5, 07 12:36 AM

I still do some computer repair work on the side - I no longer advertise and turn down new clients but still help some older clients. The story was definitely interesting, but sensationalized. The reporter needs to realize or emphasize some points: - These people are doing *on site service*. Tell me how much is costs to get a plumber to simply show up - $120? More? How much will he charge for a piece of equipment? Hint, it's not going to be what the big box store charges you. You're paying for the convenience of someone coming out with any possibly needed tools and software, diagnosing, fixing a problem as well as carting the repair parts to you. Ask a big box store how much it will cost you for them to deliver anything to you. - Licensing people is not going to solve the problem. There are numerous existing certifications that can and should be used. Asking if your "computer guy" is "A+" (recognized hardware cert) certified would be a step in the right direction. If he's not, get someone who is. -Many of the computers I see are not new. I periodically saw people running win95 years after XP was out. A new computer starts at around $350. If I spend an hour or two diagnosing and fixing problems, removing the ever-present spyware, you've easily equaled the price of a new system. Yes that doesn't include the cost of moving old data over. But it is something the computer owner needs to be made aware of. Techs who were "selling" new systems are not out of line (but they shouldn't be on the clock for that time I feel as that's not time working on fixing the problem). It's depressing to see what I saw (lies, incorrect fixes, incompetence), but I'm equally annoyed at how much of an agenda the story had and presented lies and half-truths itself. I get the feeling the story was written and done before they actually called in any of the techs. Posted by: Private | Oct 5, 07 01:18 AM

(1 of 2) Wow. This episode is pretty biased. It is seriously only looking at the 'bad side of computer repair'. I manage a 60+ computer network at a company just north of Toronto so I can say that I know a thing or two about computers. I also fix a ton of computers on the side for free, for family, friends, coworkers and occasionally friends of the aforementioned groups. I don't call myself an 'expert', I wouldn't be that brazen as I am always learning something new about computers and I often see something that I have never seen before. What I can tell you though is that the majority of the problems encountered are caused by the user, secondly by a piece of software, and rarely by the hardware itself. Sometimes, fixing computer programs can be tricky and time consuming. The cause of the problem isn't always immediately apparent. As mentioned in previous posts, sometimes there are immediate indicators to tell you what is wrong, like an audible beep from the computer speaker. Sometimes there aren't. If the computer used for the broadcast didn't provide an audible beep at startup, the things that could cause problems similar to those caused by faulty RAM would be a video card or a motherboard, although I wouldn't immediately say that either WAS the problem until I was sure. Sometimes you have to be a detective. This can include 'listening to the computer' or 'passing the parts around', which might also be called 'looking at the parts'. This 'passing of the parts' may lead to finding the damaged contacts on the stick of RAM that was at fault, so why does the program mock this method? Ridiculous reporting. I think the biggest thing people can do to protect themselves is learn about computers and computing. The choice is 'do it yourself' or you will typically have to pay for service. I learned to do brake jobs on my car which saves me a lot of money but I never once expected the garage to install new parts without charging me labour. To think otherwise would be absurd. Posted by: BT | Oct 5, 07 01:29 AM

(2 of 2) I wouldn't necessarily go to the local college to get 'expert' advice. I've seen all types at the local college. Some good, some not so good, some down right useless. An example: I had 3 days of experience with a particular database program prior to taking a database course at the local college. I was shocked to find that I was answering questions (which I didn't think were overly complex) in the second session because the teacher couldn't. Was this teacher an 'expert' simply because he/she taught at the college. Not a chance. The colleges don't often hire 'experts'. The individuals at Humber probably 'know computers' but the broadcast puts them on too high of a pedestal. I'd like to see how they would fare if the test was reversed on them. I don't think that their word should be considered 'gospel'. I do agree that you have to watch out, because you don't always get what you pay for. Certainly the individuals from the big box companies prove that point. However, I'm pretty darn sure that these companies didn't get as big as they are by providing consistently shoddy service. Almost every company has a couple of 'rotten apples' working for them. There will be good computer repair companies, big and small. There will be bad computer repair companies, big and small. Buyer beware. It just would have been nice if Marketplace wasn't so focused on the bad. Education is a good thing. Fear mongering isn't. Posted by: BT | Oct 5, 07 01:30 AM

I wasn't surprised to see the mark-up of the parts. Online pricing is ALWAYS cheaper. You're paying for the "now" and supporting a local business. The place that I work at charges about $90 for an on-site because we really do have better stuff to do and its a waste of time. We get so much service that it really does cost us money. The place I work at though offers free tech support over the phone for most stuff and will do most times 5 min fixes for free or for a small fee of $20 which is still nothing. Another reason why businesses charge so much is because usually customers complain about little stuff and the businessman gets sick of it and either stops offering a service or raises the price of something else to compensate. Its sad to see that this video really was one sided. Posted by: Ben | Oct 5, 07 01:36 AM

I wonder if we are going to see an exposé about the cost of Beer at the Ball Park. Did you know you could buy a bottle of beer at the grocery store for a fraction of the cost you can get it at the ballpark? The dude came to your house with RAM that works in your computer and installed it. Of course it is going to cost 2x what it does at the discount retailers. All you had to do was say (thanks for the help dude I will buy the RAM and install it myself.) You spent a lot of time on the cost of the RAM but lets be real here, anytime someone hand delivers something to your house it is going to be expensive it wasn't like there wasn't enough to find that was legitimately bad. The "issue" with the cost of RAM really does do a disservice to your audience. I bet if you could get a mechanic to come to your house that the prices for parts would be more expensive than if you bought them yourself as well. Posted by: FA Jones | Oct 5, 07 01:52 AM

The first comment hit the nail on the head. However, I would like to add that even people who attend A+ and Network+ courses and pay the thousands of dollars for their certifications are some of the most pathetic saps I have ever had the displeasure of speaking with. So, even with "training" the industry is filled with people who really are just not meant to be there. And that's fine, really - not everyone was born to bake an excellent loaf of bread either! Some people, as Isaac Asimov said, "just know things and are consiquently able to come the correct conclusions based on limited information". Many of the best "computer techs" have this particular talent as well as the ability to handle large systems or structures of variable in their mind and it sets them apart, regardless of education. It's the same sort of thing that makes some artists better than others. Personally, I am one of those people who has both talents and I was lucky enough to have a few people in my life help me discover them in high school; I was able to design and setup huge sound systems in record time and operate and troubleshoot them with professional efficiency when I was only 16. I became very well known and sought after, not because I am some kind of savant, but because I had a genuine interest in what I was doing - When combined with natural talents, actually "giving a damn" can make the difference between being knowledgable and being correct. Nothing bothers me more than knowing I can not walk into a computer store and ask a person behind the counter a question, because invariably I always seem to know more about the subject than they do. Perhaps that's because I care enough to research a topic before I go flapping my fool mouth off... Posted by: R. Bassett Jr. | Oct 5, 07 02:40 AM

I make a little money on the side here and there doing repair work like this. In 95% of the cases, the computer is so badly gummed up with malware that I have to either spend at least 2 hours cleaning it out, or reinstalling the OS. I can't reinstall the OS unless I see a proof of license. Cleaning it out takes a long time because most of these computers are several years old and grossly underpowered on memory. In the latter case, I will frequently recommend upgrading memory to a gigabyte and to get better antivirus software. In both those cases, I refer them to a local or an online vendor to make the purchase themselves and then I'll install it for them. This gives them the ability to get the best deal on something from a vendor that I can't compete with on price in the first place. It also makes it quite clear to my customers that I'm not trying to snow them on parts, since there's no benefit to me. If they don't feel comfortable doing that, I'll buy the part and show them the invoice and make my money on the installation (on memory, I don't charge for an install because it's mind-numbingly easy). Similarly, if the computer is old, I'll make recommendations for replacement systems and even help them negotiate pricing, but I never take a markup on the system. Most people are smart enough to recognize a sales pitch from a mile away. It's hard to make it in this business when you've got the big box stores with huge advertising budgets taking your customers away only to give them the shaft. What goes around comes around, however, and the customers eventually wise up. Posted by: Ian B | Oct 5, 07 02:51 AM

Would have been nice to see you put the computer "experts" from Humber on the testing mat as well. Make them prove to you that they know their stuff. What proof do you have that they know anything more than any of the techs you tested? Posted by: nick rivers | Oct 5, 07 03:00 AM

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to isolate a specific problem on a machine that is handed to you with little to no explanation, with dozens--hundreds--of interconnected parts, frequently with problems that, even once found, defy obvious explanation? Inspecting the wireless card is perfectly reasonable--it can be responsible for a whole range of issues. A geek can spend hours, weeks, even months trying to work out a subtle problem on his *own* system. When someone deliberately goes into a machine and screws with something, then doesn't explain the possible causes to the techs, THEN expects a solution in little enough time that it won't cost an arm and a leg, how can you expect the guy to look for a problem that, without your deliberate tampering, is almost certainly not going to have occurred? I'm impressed you were lucky enough to find three techs who were able to pin that problem down. Praise to them. Posted by: James | Oct 5, 07 03:33 AM

As a computer tech (self taught and have learned from the best) I am appalled at how many machines I have to fix after someone gets done with it. I work on laptops AND desktops, and have been shocked at how technicians leave screws out and sometimes parts unplugged. I go through ALL the options, and have the parts to switch out ON HAND to find a problem quickly. Due to being raised in a religious household, it's hard to see how many people have no morals or ethics when it comes to lying to a customer. Also, If I don't know how to fix it, I tell the client. And if they aren't happy with the result (I NEVER ask them to buy a machine off of me. If they ask for me to build one, I let the price up front be known, and If I can't get one made to their specifications, I do tell them where they might be able to get one for how they want it.) I know it costs a lot for training, however, ticking off customers only hurts P.R. when you are a small business like me, that can't afford to have a bad word get out. My business has a word-of-mouth advertising, which is why I put my all into it. Also, if a part is bad, I don't keep the bad part, I give it to them after I replace it, so they know I haven't pocketed it. I am always honest with what I tell them, and if I need to take my time to get them an accurate solution, I tell them that. I don't just go replacing parts willy-nilly. I am sorry, I just feel that one of these "Geeks" need to speak out, and say that there are SOME respectable ones that don't want to be dishonest. And if you want to get a second opinion, I don't pressure them to stay with me. I tell them if they want a second opinion, they should go and get it. I don't need to lie to get my money. Posted by: Pete | Oct 5, 07 03:40 AM

By the way, do you guys know, no probably not, that a hardware problem is a very tricky one and a fast diagnosis is: "Hardware problem", which one? unknown, but probably hard drive, why? because it is the most common one. And the customer doesn't need actually deeper knowledge, it just make them confused. They want things fixed, not a computer lesson. So the simpliest answer for the simple mind, a virus. But in this case, it was clear that the hard drive wasn't the problem, in a quick overview you can tell that there is "something related" with the motherboard. Which means, cable connection problems, power supply, memory ram problems, video card. Even Sound cards and modems in very odd cases. A deeper analysis (something very rare in-house service since it would require much more time) would eventually reveal a ram failure. Posted by: Daniel | Oct 5, 07 04:17 AM

And actually, harddrive surface scan, backaping, repartioning and reformatting is a very standard measure, cost effective, and solves even hidden problems not detected but potentially prone to fail in a future. This is a very professional standard procedure. That professor recommending a simple reinstall is just saying crap. Yes, she would do that because she knows exactly what happened, but a system failure is not something that happens everyday, and its potential causes can be from corrupted partition table, bad sectors (which means a dying hard drive), virus, corruption by spywares, etc... Repartitioning and Formatting is a huge umbrella that covers all those potential causes (which we don't really need to know). And by practical reasons that is what every self-respected technician who values his time would do as a standard procedure. Posted by: Daniel | Oct 5, 07 04:18 AM

To Stevin in BC who says "Failed RAM, such as was on the show, is an easy instant diagnosis. All motherboards will give out a beep code, or vocal error message telling the tech the RAM is faulty." Failed RAM an easy diagnosis? Yeah sure if it is so totally fried that the near brain dead RAM test the Power On Self Test (POST) runs catches it. That's like diagnosing that you're missing some fingers after having an accident with a table saw. RAM that has failed more subtly due to manufacturing errors or other reasons and having as little as one single solitary bad bit can be insanely difficult to diagnose. While one bad bit may not seem like a lot it can cause your computer to lock up or crash in the event the system puts something critical there. And it may happen only sporadically. Such RAM failures can take extensive testing to diagnose. Posted by: Dave | Oct 5, 07 05:09 AM

"The individuals at Humber probably 'know computers' but the broadcast puts them on too high of a pedestal. I'd like to see how they would fare if the test was reversed on them." I do not know who was involved in this story but in the Computer and Network Support Technician as well as the Computer Engineering program that I took there (graduated this summer) had teachers who had been in the industry for years. One of the professors was a registered CCIE (Highest level Cisco certification) and another one was a partner in the Microsoft Instructor and had access to all the materials that Microsoft put out for their MCSE certification programs. It is not like they are hiring people off the street to teach these ones at least not when I was there. Posted by: Humber Student | Oct 5, 07 06:36 AM

The real problem is that people expect sophisticated repairs for cheap. Computers have the highest complexity-to-cost ratio of anything a normal consumer will ever encounter, and the innocent mistakes of the typical user will cause them to fail at rates that wouldn't be acceptable for any other product. At the low rates consumers will pay for repairs (given the cost of simply replacing the system), how much training do you think it is financially practical for techs to have, and is it even possible to get enough training to be the miracle worker most people expect? Posted by: Anon | Oct 5, 07 07:22 AM

I must say some of the comments give computer service people an even worse name than the report. Let's face it - it is not fair to charge anything for shoddy incompetent work, and that is exactly what was delivered by all but three. They were not geeks or techies but shameless snake oil merchants I disagree regarding the pricing though by the three guys who fixed the problem; factoring in the costs of running a business they are actually cheap. If you want it any cheaper, you have to go the hard mile and learn how to do it yourself, and keep the necessary spares in store too. Posted by: Horst Herb | Oct 5, 07 08:01 AM

I am one of these geeks that help fix computers, and I do so as a favor most of the time, sometimes though I have to tell the person a line in order to get them to realize fixing a poor old pentium 2 is not worth the money they want to pay in order to get something like a pentium3 or 4 earlier version for the same money, I may tell them the motherboard is fried...look at a used (newer) computer, and this saves me the hassle of spending 1 hour diagnosing the problem, which goes towards their computer, and gets them faster , bigger performance. Posted by: Leon Anderson | Oct 5, 07 08:41 AM

This is pretty much what I expect from any PC repair place. They make a business out of bad service. I also wouldn't call any computer repair person an IT professional. Most of these people don't even have the basics down. Ask your computer repair person to talk about the OSI model, then you'll get your answer as to how competent this person is. Posted by: birt | Oct 5, 07 08:43 AM

After watching the show I found that about half of what they pointed could be legitimately seen as a problem. Issues: - No tech should ever copy your files off your pc without permission and also they should have had a memory stuck or external drive of their own to put the files on (not on their own laptop drive) - Anyone that diagnoses a pc before they even open the case up should be escorted out at that point (Tech:= ==> oh, I think it's the Hard Drive?!) - No mention was made of it, but was the cost presented before the person arrived. I would never pay that kind of money for on-site service personally so if they indicated over the phone that it would be a minimum $$ charge that would be important. I disagreed with CBC's take on their cost on the RAM. They can charge whatever they want. Shop around, auto service works the same way. You want it fixed on site right away with something they have on hand be prepared to pay. Honestly, for me to show up in a car to your place and diagnose and repair your system for the prices noted are not out of line. Now if I didn't fix it I wouldn't charge $100 like some of them did. Mine would be based on what I had to do to diagnose it. Some of them looked like they spend 5 minutes looking at it, couldn't fix it and basically said take it into the repair shop and pay again and I want $100 for looking at it and doing nothing. Word of mouth is critical in this line of work. I have fixed so many pc's where someone who thought they knew what they were doing made a royal mess of the system. If you aren't capable to fix your own system make sure to get referrals for anyone coming to look at your system or talk to friends and get recommendations from them. Or be lucky to have a friend that can fix the system for you. I do this a lot for people but personally have no interest in doing it for a living. Posted by: Michael Gallant | Oct 5, 07 08:45 AM

Overall this is true that there are billions of people on the planet who call themselves I.T. guys but in fact know nothing about I.T. I know this because hiring was part of my job for some of the positions I held in the past, and I did the same to the candidates (i.e. break something and then ask the candidates to fix the machine). I guess the bottom line is that you'll have to learn a thing or two such that the "bad guys" can't take advantage of you. While we are on the subject here's an interesting thought: since your Humber College profs think it's so easy to spot a planned fault in a computer, why not let them take on an open challenge to see how good they really are? After all these years of planning faults into machines myself, I am sure they'll find my challenges fun to play with, that is, assuming they know I.T. in the first place. By the way, may I suggest CBC to do a report on how Ontario Parks overcharge their customers on almost everything that they sell in the park stores? I mean paying 25% more for a Popsicle is just robbery, don't you think? Posted by: Kroy Ip | Oct 5, 07 08:54 AM

There are three kinds of IT people, those who know their stuff, those who don't, and those who teach. Posted by: P. Smith | Oct 5, 07 09:29 AM

The best computer repair people are self-taught. No amount of formal training will make an expert out of a person if he doesn't have the prerequisite creativity and resourcefulness. If a person does not have the spatial ability to flip, rotate and combine two completely unrelated problems in four-dimensional mindspace to come up with a new solution (most don't), then he is not fit for this kind of vocation. Employers, here's a tip -- if you want to weed out the best for your technology shops, put a pen and paper in front of your candidates and have them attempt to explain an abstract idea, say, like how one would tie shoelaces if he's never done so before. The best responses would be frightening in their conciseness and precision, in both grammar and concept. THOSE are your best people. Posted by: The Uncreated | Oct 5, 07 09:46 AM

The tech in the store who received (faint) praise for correctly diagnosing the problem with the system files on the laptop actually didn't give very good advice. He suggested that the customer go home and put the restore CD in the drive and do a restore, but every restore CD I have ever seen formats the drive and wipes out all of the user's personal data. Perhaps off-camera he suggested first doing a back-up, but that is only a partial solution. A restore from backup won't reinstall the applications after, so it won't result in a very functional machine from the customer's perspective. The techs were faced with a very difficult problem: how to backup the data, restore the system, reinstall the applications and then restore the user's data at a reasonable price. When I do this for family and friends, it can take days. Doing it for customers is usually out of the question because they are not willing to pay for the time it can take, even at a nominal rate. Posted by: Hardwicke Foofoo | Oct 5, 07 09:54 AM

First - I really enjoyed the reporting. Having taught an introductory course at a community college previously for adults on how to service their own computers, I am appalled by the "mystique" and "aura" of how difficult it is to fix problems that has been created by the industry. Second, I am a 20 year veteran of PCs - building them from scratch, installing and configuring software, troubleshooting problems through detailed analysis, etc. There is one common issue that all true techs face: we get invited to a "friend's" place for dinner or some such thing but the ulterior motive is to get free computer servicing. We see it every day in my lives - even we need a break occasionally. Computer owners should take the time to learn some basic troubleshooting skills to avoid being ripped off. Yet, they are foolish enough to allow this to continue. Barnum was right - there is a sucker born every minute. Computer owners have a responsibility to protect themselves - caveat emptor! Posted by: Cyberruk | Oct 5, 07 10:44 AM

As an experienced technician, I can definitely say that the majority of the technicians shown in this video don't understand how a computer works. To say that they were intentionally "gouging" is a little bit of a reach. They just don't understand what is happening so they make something up. Also, I would like to note that the estimates for how much these problems should cost to fix is a little low. I don't know very many places where you can get a new stick of RAM for $25, and the majority of well qualified technicians are going to charge more than $60 for a Windows reinstallation, which takes at least 1 hour, and usually more like 3. Posted by: Brian Morton | Oct 5, 07 10:45 AM

The average PC Technician has little more idea of the hardware in a PC than the average user. Want a quality repair, find someone that lives around you and has multiple computers, and that you seldom see having any trouble with their computer.... Ask him/her how he/she keeps his/her pc working so well. Then, follow that persons advice to the letter. I can diagnose stuff myself that all the big name store technicians miss or mis-diagnose. I live computers and have to repair my own mess ups as I am on a fixed income and experience is the best teacher. Posted by: Gary Ford | Oct 5, 07 10:52 AM

* To swap a corrupt system file you DO NOT have to re-install Windows. * That person who says a tech company shouldn't back up the client's data before reinstalling Windows? Horrible advice. Most "Windows re-installation disks" (recovery disks) wipe out EVERYTHING on the drive. Her advice would lose your data. * The "expert" goes on Crucial to look for RAM prices, well go to STAPLES, COMPUSA, or BESTBUY, you will not see those Crucial low prices. I've been a computer user for 26yrs, and been in the computer business for 16yrs, NONE of these would even get passed an interview with my firm, including those college "experts". Posted by: Markus Diersbock | Oct 5, 07 11:03 AM

I work in the computer repair industry. Our retail store does not offer on site services because the high cost is not necessarily justified in repairing a computer on site. This being said, if I had a system in for service where the memory module had missing pins (this is only caused one way, improper installation usually backwards - you have to force hard but i have seen it) and typically once it damages the module it can also damage the main board. In our shop we would talk to the customer to find out what really happened because if they did not change or touch the memory module and pins are missing then this is typically a sign of a huge power surge. There are tools, something called a POST diagnostic card that vary in price between $20.00 and $500.00 that would allow any technician to quickly determine the issue; at very least allow them to know where to focus their attentions. That being said, I have always believed that on-site repair service for a home user is not a wise choice, a charge of $100+ in labor would be better spent to buying a new computer in most cases. Posted by: Robert Picard | Oct 5, 07 11:04 AM

Everyone should keep in mind that the most valuable thing on your computer isn't the hardware it's the data. You can always junk your PC and buy a new one and you can always reinstall the operating system. If people spent a little more time and money just backing up their data you wouldn't have as many problems and you'd save yourself allot of money. Most of the time repairing a PC is more expensive and time consuming than just buying a new one. As for asking your geeky friends to fix your PC, most of us don't want to and for good reason we don't want to be responsible if anything goes wrong. Posted by: Brian | Oct 5, 07 11:17 AM

Most of these techs are just inexperienced, not a bunch of con artists. As others have said, the price of RAM is volatile. $25 for a stick... a stick of what? What brand? Warranty? Lo or Hi density. HUGE DIFFERENCE. How come the 'expert' didn't mention any of that? I'm sorry, but where I work, we don't use cheap junk components. And we certainly don't sell parts at the same price we paid for them. How will recoup shipping costs? Time to research and order the parts(this can take hours)? It works the same as with a mechanic. If you don't want to pay the shop's price on parts, find/buy them yourself. We don't push that... most people don't want to bother with that kind of thing and we'll only lose customers by getting them all frustrated with wasting time doing it and possibly getting the wrong part("but the guy at office depot said this is what I needed!", heard that one more than once). The people who want to go that route are usually the same people who call you up after you've dignosed their machine and have already put in an order and then change their mind because their "second cousin's best friend in highschool is a 'computer whiz' and will do it." Oh, yeah, and "I don't want to pay the costs for labor". Time is money. Time is what this is all about. People pay us because they don't want to waste the time to do it themselves. It's not hard work. But if you don't want to pay, do it yourself. If you want to use OUR TIME, then you better be darn well assured that we want to be compensated for it. Posted by: A Tech | Oct 5, 07 11:17 AM

What would have happened if you got a computer consultant out of the phone book? One with at least a computer degree? and 10 or more years experience? One large stick of memory is a reasonable compromise when carrying parts... with 1GB of memory... the computer will now ~2x run faster than before because it will no longer be using the hard drive as virtual memory (also making data corruption less likely). The reinstallation of windows requires quite a few hours not 30 min... as all the updates have to be downloaded. You fail to mention that all the settings will be lost too. Your expert was probably referring the process of ghosting a system... from a backup... which truthfully does take 30min or less... but you can also lose all your data... as they simply put everything back to how it was in its pristine state (or the last backup). Home systems don't do that. If you have a laptop from one of the big manufacturer's then their reinstall disks often reformat your drive before reinstalling... losing all your data. A good computer tech will try to work out why your file disappeared rather than simply reinstalling. Files disappear for a reason... find the reason and fix it. ...backing up data is good practise if you can find the time to do it. The most expensive IT guy I know of costs $120/hr but he also happens to be the most experienced. All of the IT personnel seemed to be confused about the difference between a Virus and a Trojan. Customers often ask you about data recovery... you tell them it's about $2K in a "worst case scenario". The guy you criticised so hard moved on to eliminate the HD as a problem by hooking it up to his computer and testing it... so in the end he corrected himself. Any time you blow piece of hardware or get unexplained software corruption you should suspect your power. The cost of a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) is roughly the cost of a repair. Posted by: Michael Czajka | Oct 5, 07 11:21 AM

I own an appliance repair business. This field is infected with vermin such as the creeps in your geek story. I work alone and am known by name in my small city. I've gone on service calls after a different servicer has abused someone's intelligence, patience and checkbook. There are times when I'd like to get some service creep in an alley in the dark because they have "car salesmanned up" our field. Many years ago, I had worked for an applpiance dealer and was sent out on a call for a front loading washer which banged in spin. I cleaned the lint filter in the bottom of the tub and it was just fine. The crooks I had been working for forced me to take a motor along with me. I knew ahead of time what I would find and so, I just shut up & took the motor along. I didn't use it as I knew I wouldn't. When I got back to the shop and told them what I had done~~CORRECTLY~~they asked me how I expect them to pay me if I don't put in parts(even if they are NOT required). I told them that I won't steal for myself and I'll NEVER steal for you. I walked. I now live in a small city and have earned a good rep by being honest. It's absolutely simple to be that way. I'd like to see you do a story on appliance repair businesses and the con artists within. Posted by: GUY WITH TOOLS | Oct 5, 07 11:22 AM

At the end of your segment, I would have liked to have seen your Humber College Institute person: boot the computer, show the problem, and explain why this was a simple problem to diagnose. Others have commented that this is not a simple problem to diagnose. Not so. It was as simple as: 1. Turning on the computer 2. Watching the Power On Self Test fail. A.k.a POST 3. Looking up the POST failure. Posted by: Marshall | Oct 5, 07 11:28 AM

Several of the explanations when it came to the corrupt file could have correct. Whether they said it was a virus that caused the corrupt file or I don't know....the boogy man it dosen't change the fact that the file was corrupted and the solution would be the same. I enjoyed how these people were written off as plain wrong. I could keep going but I'm sure my frustration has been made clear. Now I do realize every industry has its con-artists and those just out to make money I think if you had not painted everyone with the same brush this could have been a decent story that everyone could have learned from. Just remember everyone CBC insiders say "Fix it yourself". What could POSSIBLY go wrong? Posted by: Brian | Oct 5, 07 11:35 AM

I would agree that many computer techs maybe under qualified. The next step is to do a sting on "tech" schools. There are a lot of fly by night schools promoting training and job placement that earns a 60k salary in the tech field. Upon "graduating" from the schools they are left with a minimum wage job and a 60k loan to pay back and little knowledge and skill. Posted by: Jack Johnson | Oct 5, 07 11:57 AM

What made you think Humber was giving you the right information? Oh… because they are a school? RIGHT, that makes them an expert. The gal from Humber gave info that was DANGEROUS…just stick in the Windows cd and that will fix the corrupt file….ya and watch the system blow up if the PC was fully updated with Service Pack 2 and the Windows cd’s were Service Pack 1. Posted by: Steve | Oct 5, 07 11:58 AM

I Used to work as IT for a medium size company, i used to answer over 80 calls a day, half problem was users, the other half needed quick check and done, most users got surprised for quick response, and they wanted me to go to their homes to fix their PCs until I gave them a price list, they wanted the same response time and for no money. People don't measure the value of the data they keep on their PCs, they don't want to pay for replace parts installation or diagnosis of the PC. Now I have to turn off my cellphone (thinking on a number change) beacuse people want me to go at 2 am to fix a computer and if the problem is a little detail (between keyboard and the chair) they refuse to pay! I had a client with 10 PCs fixed all of them (they needed hardware check, vent replace, etc) and he wanted to pay $20 for each PC, i told him to erase my phone number, that was an insult. It took me 2 days doing a good work on them. There are several amateurs doing really bad work, replacing parts or PCs, unnecessarily ripping off people. And we the professional technicians who can really help people finding the most fast and effective solution get badly paid. While the amateurs rip off people and discredit our labor. I'm from Chile. People here just wants to rip off the tech. They think 2 hours of a professional work costs same as a candy bar or something like that. For God Sake, i suffered 3 years working to pay my studies. PD: sorry for my bad english D:! Posted by: Jose Gonzalez | Oct 5, 07 12:21 PM

I don't understand where you're getting $60 for an OS re-installation. You're way off base with your "average" costs to do these repairs. An average repair for an operating system failure is $100 and if any technician is charging less then $75 for a hardware replacement then they're probably not worth your time. You keep saying that these techs should also be charging considerably less for the hardware like RAM, but what you fail to mention is that someone had to procure that RAM and probably purchase it in bulk to even get a cost that would make them ANY profit at all. Surfing the web and looking for deals is not going to fix your computer in an hour or less. If a customer is indeed worried about their personal information on the computer a tech is working on, then they should request a non-disclosure agreement to be signed both by the technician and the customer PRIOR to any work being done. frankly, the last thing I would have time for as a technician is looking at someone's Quicken register to see where they buy their groceries. Get real. This was a completely biased and unrealistic slant on what the computer repair industry does. This reporter should spend a little time understanding what it really takes to start a computer repair business and supply service and equipment for both a residential and commercial customer. Posted by: A Tech in your home. | Oct 5, 07 12:32 PM

Here's the reality. If a computer has ONE blown RAM out of several RAM sticks, just removing the RAM sticks one at a time will reveal the problem. If the system boots, meaning just bad RAM, not blown RAM, anybody can run a memory diagnostic. They aren't perfect, but they usually spot the problem. Fixing hardware issues, however, is not easy - especially if it's an erratic power supply or motherboard connector. And nobody carries multiple RAM sticks and fifty other pieces of replacement hardware - although most techs carry some replacement parts, even those not working for larger companies. Only if you work for a company that stocks inventory for all systems they sell are you likely to have a tech that stocks significant inventory. The best advice: go with a "no fix, no charge" tech. The tech doesn't charge you until the machine works. This works only if you or the tech can go out and buy the part before the tech gets paid. And this allows you to get the parts from the cheapest source. I usually let the client buy the part directly, so they know what they're getting. If you let the tech buy the part, you can't be sure what you're getting. Also, reinstalling Windows is a problem in many cases. Many PC buyers don't get a "Recovery CD" or "Recovery Partition" when they buy their systems. I recommend to my clients never to buy a system that doesn't come with one of these - and the best way is to buy a "white box" from a store that provides you a full OEM Windows installation CD that you can install on ANY PC, not just a branded box or the box it came with. But, yeah, clearly the techs on this show did a bad job. No tech is perfect and you have to play the odds many times in diagnosing a system on site when you don't have the time or equipment to run bench tests. But these guys clearly screwed up by not following a standard diagnosis procedure that does play the odds correctly by testing for the most likely problems first. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 5, 07 12:43 PM

Just watched your video about computer repair people. It is true there is no honesty in the business computer repair. They will charge what they think a person will pay it seems and give all kinds of excuses. I know. I have had bad experience from a computer store. Posted by: Doug Abernethy | Oct 5, 07 12:47 PM

Computers are extremely complex machines; as complex, if not more so than, as a car. When a mechanic misdiagnoses a problem, yes, you can be a little perturbed that you have to waste more time, but the fact is that you can't fix it yourself. That is the case for the vast majority of people. When I worked at Circuit City this past year I felt bad that we charged people to install software, but the fact is that they couldn't do it, we could, so we had to charge them to make it worth the company's time. It's sad how many people want you to "just install it" for them for nothing. Same with hardware. "I'm paying you for the hardware...so why should I pay again to have it installed?" because you'd shock the crap out of it and it would be useless. Anyway, the point is, don't vilify people for doing their jobs, they do the best they can. Posted by: Geekdefender | Oct 5, 07 01:26 PM

I agree with what is depicted here FROM the custmer perspective. From the professional side, not much said. There are ripoff techies and there are the good ones. In re. to the virus/trojan there was no need to offer possible scenarios, just fix it or provide customer with a solution. And the hardware... well the funky dust-free room is crap. Do it yourself is not an option for too many people, so I agree there can be a RAM overhead, but 100% more is too much. Posted by: Carlos | Oct 5, 07 01:51 PM

It's not hard to understand why you get such badly trained and unexperienced techs when you call these guys. It's simply a matter of economics, the good IT guys go to the companies that need them. When you can make 65-200k working at a company why would you chose to make 30-60k working for a technician service? Posted by: The IT Guy | Oct 5, 07 02:14 PM

Interesting to see the number of alleged computer techs out there quick to blame the messenger. There was no bias; every tech was presented with the same problem and should have been able to solve it PDQ. Similar exposes of auto repair shops and home remodeling companies tend to bring out the same sorts of huffin'-n-puffin' on the part of purveyors of those services as well. Get over yourselves guys. This was a "buyer beware" piece and an excellent public service. You'd rather cover up the problem than fix it, or so it would seem. The simple fact is that 70% of the techs in this episode, hired from the largest electronics companies serving the home market, utterly failed to perform their duties adequately and at least some of them appeared to be out right corrupt. If the home computer repair industry wanted to field qualified technicians they could but their profit margins would likely shrink. They would need to pay their techs better and there would be less "up selling" the customer with unnecessary parts and services. Techs should be certified through approved testing agencies and they should be monitored by the company that employs them. There is nothing keeping companies who make that tired old claim "it's just a couple of bad apples" from running their own QA programs on tech performance, including testing their techs out in the field with "sting" operations similar to the ones run on this MarketPlace episode. As one poster pointed out, you need to have a license to cut hair but any fool can wander in and claim to be an IT specialist. Posted by: Kelly Cuthbertson | Oct 5, 07 02:24 PM

If your test computer was a ram(memory) problem dislodged, it would a rare and unlikely culprit. After opening 99 computers a year myself, I have only found that problem area twice in 10 years. Usually a power supply, hard drive, or motherboard fails first and foremost. A typical symptom always has different reasons and results. No two computers respond identically to fix. Be fair but keep up the good work. Thanks Posted by: glenn redma | Oct 5, 07 02:26 PM

The prices quoted by Humbler were outrageously low. Essentially they quoted the price of purchasing used RAM as the full cost of diagnosing and fixing the issue. Diagnosing hardware issues is hard when you don't have spares to test with. House calls cost $100/hour (that's standard, expect it) and when techs do them they feel rushed and don't have all their tools. The true lesson that should be learned here is not to get a house call for your blue screen of death. Take it in, you'll get better service. As for the corrupt windows file, these files usually don't corrupt themselves, they get corrupted by viruses - so if you have corrupted files on a system with obvious avenues of infection (Limewire) it's fair to assume a virus. If the system is infected you want to clean those infections before attempting a repair install, otherwise the malicious software can prevent the repair install from working properly and you wind up with a massively difficult recovery process to deal with. I worked in a repair shop for several years, we were fair, trustworthy, and knowledgeable; yet anyone of us could have made the same mistakes seen in this report. I'm not saying that there is not a lot of room for improvement in the industry, there certainly is (and the bigger the shop the more likely they are to screw you) but this report is sensationalistic and does not provide any useful information on how to select a good service or know when you're being cheated. It's FUD all the way, totally useless. Posted by: loren | Oct 5, 07 02:30 PM

I'm always amazed at the number of people who can't be bothered to learn more about something, and then expect the law to protect them when they get screwed. The one thing that Marketplace could have done more is to encourage people to learn more about their machines. The updating virus software and stuff is a good start, but learn more about the internals of the computer. It's really not that hard and there's a lot of books on the subject. In the end, legislation is no protection for ignorance. Posted by: Shane Leung | Oct 5, 07 02:30 PM

1. RAM could be bad, but not show up on the POST test. Well, I think that would defeat the purpose of the test. I suspect one of the jumpers was popped off. I have worked on a fair number of routers in my time, and often the overpriced RAM that they use is exactly the same RAM as PC RAM, except there are some surface mount resistors bridging different contacts. This makes the RAM unusable in a system that wasn't setup for that configuration. In this case, the RAM would fit in the slot, but would test as bad when going through the POST. Either that or they simply fried it trying to desolder the jumper. 2. There was a comment about it not being reasonable for a tech to carry every possible type of RAM. They should have at least one size of the major types. Every professional has a tool kit. If he isn't going to have a diagnostic kit containing something like a POST card, at least he should have a few spare parts so he can swap them out and see if the system starts. For example, you may not have the same video card as the customer, but you should at least have a video card. Posted by: Trent | Oct 5, 07 04:32 PM

3. There was a mention about A+ and a computer engineering course. I had a 2 year computer engineering technology course where we had to learn the theory behind why every part worked. Papers describing the history of RAM, or a 50 page report on the evolution of the hard drive read/write head. Next door there was a class that did A+ in 4 weeks. They thought we were nuts for spending 2 years on something that they were smart enough to do in a couple of weeks. My advice to techs and consumers, if you don't know WHY something works don't just blindly poke at it until it starts to work. 4. Folks have to remember this field is in its infancy. In 1911, how many people knew how a car worked? Most knew how to turn the wheel to keep it going straight, but don't ask them how it worked. Eventually people will catch on, but as long as people consider it "geeky" to know how this stuff works there will be someone who will rip them off. I know people who inventory their hardware before they take it in to a shop to get work done. Sometimes they have a smaller hard drive or less RAM when it comes back. It is rare, but as long as these guys keep getting business everyone else will keep getting a bad name. Posted by: Trent | Oct 5, 07 04:32 PM

Most of these techs obviously dont have any business fixing computers especially that last one. However this is where you went wrong. This was a very one sided report. I work on hundreds of computers and even the ones customers try to quick fix themselves. I don't even have time to go into all the reasons why a "quick' fix is NEVER the best solution. And secondly these reporters displayed the outragious expectations some customers have. They don't care what caused the problem and whether it will come back, they just want a quick fix. We would turn a customer away before doing the customer a "favor" with a quick fix. And why would any tech tell the customer to pop the CD in, and they're good to go? Do they not realize that Dell BIOS boots to the HD first by default? That was horrible advice. Posted by: Drew | Oct 5, 07 04:37 PM

I have been repairing/selling computers & related products for over 25 years, running my own business for 17. I'm the same age as Bill Gates (not NEARLY as wealthy!) Love your show (my favourite). Lots of computer experts out there, eh!? Would I have done what was asked of the 10 computer techs shown? Probably not. When hardware is failing, parts should be swapped to determine the failing one. I have a bench system I use just for that, as well as many spare parts at the shop. I bring, or the client brings their system to me, and we start from the beginning. There's lots of trouble-shooting methods, but if a system does not POST, i.e. show any signs of life when the power is applied, then one goes through each part one at a time. CPUs rarely fail, motherboards, ram and power supplies more. I find there are a lot of so-called 'computer experts' who have limited knowledge/experience with all the systems required to get and keep a computer running right. When I sell a system, I sell 'me'. A client does not go running off to a Future Shop or Best Buy looking for answers when something's wrong, they simply call me! Why anyone would buy a computer from a place that sells toaster ovens is beyond me. Computers are not yet toasters. They may be one day, but not today. You might pay a little bit more for my services, but if I can fix it right the first time, or take 1/2 the time, who's more expensive? I sell parts at a markup. I have to to stay in business. People should buy their system from someone who they can call on when a problem arises. I even install free remote software so I can trouble-shoot and fix things from any computer I may be at when I get a call. Service is very important. Properly setup systems and a proper antivirus/spam program is paramount to reducing the number of after sales calls needed. Keep up the good work! Posted by: Eldon Doucet | Oct 5, 07 04:42 PM

I run a small, successful one man operation in the Kitchener-Waterloo area “The Computer Doctor” which is in no way affiliated with any other company called “The Computer Doctor”; it is unfortunate that this story doesn’t point that out that there are companies out there in different cities, etc that can have the same name. I used to work for one of the companies mentioned and for the reasons this story has brought to light, I left to start my own company because I did not want to be associated with that sort conduct. That being said I’m afraid this story may have unjustly tarnished the reputation of my business. Posted by: Chris, The Computer Doctor | Oct 5, 07 05:34 PM

Certifications: I don’t believe that most of them are worth the paper they are printed on. I have CompTIA A+, Network+; I’m also an MCP, MCSA and have an honors diploma as a Network Specialist from an accredited college. Do I think these pieces of paper make me a good tech? No, my education combined with my experience is what makes me a good technician and at present certifications do not have an experience requirement. I see many comments in this post saying all our techs are A+ certified, which really is no big deal. A+ has been marketed and marketed well to make the consumer think they are getting someone that knows what they are doing because they have this certification! I’ve been in the IT industry for about 20 years and have had exposure to many brands of systems and many configurations and my experience with teachers “the experts in your story” are that I generally know more than they do. When you work in a college or technical school your exposure to different computer brands and configuration is limited and I’m sure this can be said for any industry: what happens in the classroom is in no way an accurate representation of what will happen in the real world. The problem with the IT service field is there are no standards and/or requirements for IT people, anyone can say “they know computers” and claim to be technicians. There needs to be some sort of licensing in place that won’t allow someone to be able to perform computer service work unless they have been licensed. Posted by: Chris - The Computer Doctor | Oct 5, 07 05:38 PM

I work in the repair industry and am often shocked by the level of incompetence I encounter. Even in educational institutions it seems. The best way to protect yourself is to ask the technician for their credentials, if they don't say Comptia A+ certified as a minimum....look elsewhere. That is the testing standard created by Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers. To attain certification the technician must be checked out fully on hardware and software, namely ALL versions of Windows, including DOS. Self taught is not good enough. Posted by: Gus | Oct 5, 07 06:49 PM

I liked the show on GETTING GOUGED BY GEEKS. Like many others I found your college guy's smarmy attitude about the markup to be upsetting (finding a price at an on-line wholesale store).. he seemed to forget about the shipping/handling costs as well as the delay in getting the parts. I have been in the computer industry for over 24 years and have my own business for the last 10 and I'll bet that if I looked at the customer in your sting and said " you need a ram module, go on-line and order one, that should fix it... now PAY ME".. there would be some hesitation because it isn't fixed. I for one carry a great many parts with me and I don't have to tell you selling the parts at cost just isn't good business. (I wonder if Humber College will let me take classes for the same prices i see at University of Phoenix On-line??) My business relies completely on WORD OF MOUTH advertising and rest assured, there are some of us out here that practice good customer service and are honest. The part about the one guy that did the quick fix for free made me smile.. that happens to me 2-3 times a month, too short a call to bill for in good conscience, so you waive the charges.. if i get the customer again because of the freebie, that's great, otherwise I look at like a deposit into the Karma bank. Posted by: Mark Wilson | Oct 5, 07 07:06 PM

This story is mostly dead on, but the horrible flaws in methodology detract seriously from its impact. The right thing to do is to take a factory-clean laptop, install a few programs on it, and then create a specific defect whose cause does not require investigation. It reminds me of a story on VCR repair scams many years back. They intentionally blew the fuse in a working VCR and put it in for repair. They claimed it should never take more than 20 minutes to open the VCR, see the fuse, replace it, test the VCR, then close it up. Except how happy would the customer be if the fuse blew again the next day? They created a mystery and expected a competent technician not to solve it. Deleted system files are the same thing. A competent technician would check for a host of problems that could cause missing system files. Not finding something takes a lot longer than finding it. Posted by: David Schwartz | Oct 5, 07 07:15 PM

Great exposé, but one thing that you should not be doing is complaining that computer part prices are too high. You will never see the same prices online as you will from a repair shop. It's also the same reason brick and mortar stores don't sell TVs, Clothes, and even food at cost. It's a BUSINESS. Maybe a 100% markup might seem like a lot, when you figure overhead and expenses of the company, that's what it needs to cost. Posted by: Kelly O'Keefe | Oct 5, 07 07:48 PM

I am terrified how little the "Humber college expert" knows about IT. He never heard of data recovery costing a few grand (in worst case scenarios). He does not know that clean rooms are outsourced by companies to extract data from hard drive platters. He does not realize that older, smaller sized RAM is much harder to find and not worth purchasing. (might as well spend a little more and quadruple the size for a few bucks more) He obviously does not know anything about retail and markup. He must assume that that Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Staples, Doctor Dave etc. etc. sells products at cost and make no profit. I really hope he is not a computer teacher. Also, why didn't Marketplace mention the fact that the $2000 charge was just a "worst case scenario"? Posted by: John | Oct 5, 07 08:32 PM

The guy who was beeping to the computer was trying to match the beep codes of the BIOS. Different BIOS manufactures have a different set of beep codes to identify the hardware errors. Price markup of the hardware? Your mechanic, local grocery stores, drug stores, all do it. These technicians aren't bright, but drive recovery can't cost up to $10,000. The gov't contractors who do drive recovery for servers will charge more than that. Posted by: networking god | Oct 5, 07 08:35 PM

I would like to direct a few points to the Humber college "experts." A simple problem added to the computer yes, in an uncontrolled environment.How after adding the damaged ram module did you know concretely that this ram did not cause other issues like possibly damaging the delicate circuitry on the mainboard or even to damage the CPU? Rare yes, but plausible. During the duration I noted that on the screen were different icons for downloading “programs” such as Limewire etc.(Including malware protection by Norton! LOL) Any “expert” would know that if you were to introduce a computer into an environmental test of this sort that it MUST without question be newly formatted and NEVER connected to an internet connection right? You would think that these “experts” from Humber College would know this. Not a well thought out "sting" on both Market Place and Humber College's part. I would be disappointed after watching this interview if I was currently attending Humber College. Posted by: Private | Oct 6, 07 01:02 AM

To start off I would like to say I've made a living providing technical support for over fifteen years. I deal strictly with commercial support on an international level. My specialization is in software development, networking (mainly wide area networks) and server technologies. I am extremely good at what I do, in fact, so good that hundreds of companies fly me all over the world because they cannot find anyone in their nation that can do the same thing. The defective RAM computer problem is nothing short of a trap. The particular problem with the RAM stick is something a home technician will never see in his/her entire career. RAM is comprised entirely of solid-state circuity. The characteristics of this technology is that failure is usually the result of manufacturing defect, or heat deterioration of the die. I have never seen a RAM stick instantly fail, without being a casualty of a cascade system failure caused by a faulty power supply. Also, I have never seen a RAM stick magically pop off parts. When a RAM stick is failing, usually programs begin crashing randomly, which is a result of data corruption in the RAM module. That being said a technician who was told the system was working perfectly fine and then stopped working entirely has absolutely no reason to suspect the RAM at all. The bottom line is, it is unheard of for a normally functioning system to malfunction and end up in the state of the defective system depicted in the video. As such, no amount of training could prepare a technician for this problem. Posted by: Matt | Oct 6, 07 03:29 AM

A skilled tech will look at several possible points of failure. All of the techs on this video appeared to have done this. Some were incorrect. A common mistake in every field of expertise. It's a capitalist society, I am going to charge as much as the market allows, as in any profession I will get paid for my time. We don't do favors. If a plug isn't connected, and I plug it in for you, I will bill you the standard service fee just like any professional in any industry. If you leave porn materials under the hood of your car your mechanic will look at them too. Same in any profession. If a user is stupid enough to have it on there system when they need repairs, then they have no grounds for complaints. The laptop. I would suspect a virus as soon as I saw the Limewire icon/DVD Shrink icon. The owner was obviously involved in PIRACY. I would certainly perform a Spyware/Virus scan and bill the customer for the time I spent doing so. The point I am making here is that I spent the money and time for the college education that I have. Fixing a computer can be a challenging task and I have every right to charge a customer for my services. It is usually cheaper to replace an entire component (motherboard) than to spend hours trying to pinpoint the failing part. The people that stated that the motherboard was probably failing were probably not that far off base. The computer system goes through POST (Power On Self Test) and is supposed to beep ONE time to indicate the basic components are operational. If the memory was bad, it should give a distinct series of beeps. If they didn't hear that, then it is safe to assume that there is a problem on the motherboard itself. That wasn't mentioned in the video. Based on the facts that were presented in this video, you were obviously trying to imply that the computer repair industry is corrupt and unskilled. You obviously are very ignorant of the science,standards, and certifications behind the industry. Posted by: Clp727 | Oct 6, 07 11:12 AM

I don’t condone the poor skills of some of the techs that were presented. But where was the praise to the techs that did get it right? -RAM is not cheap. A stick can cost from a range of $50- $300 (PC800). RAM prices vary based on type & size. Why did we not see the amount of MB these techs were offering to replace the old one? Using Crucial a US company to compare to Canadian prices, come on now. I’m sure the Canadian dollar didn’t surpass the US at the time of recording. -How come you didn’t state exactly what was happening when the RAM chip was replaced? Was there a POST? Beeps? Was PC speaker disconnected? Was it really the same PC in the loft for each tech? -No one considers the time techs from certain companies are allowed to stay at sites. It’s easy for a PC tech from Humber to say “fixing this shouldn’t take this long or the price of this should be this”. But the fact is they’re not out their on a daily basis having to fix problems within a limited time frame; then to only rush to another house call across the city within 30min in rush hour. Let’s see them have to fix 4 BSOD’s in one day with the chance of extremely irate clients over their shoulder. Point is there are some good techs out there, not trying to rip anyone off, that put their blood and sweat in to this work. Some techs willing to stay all night in a customer’s home; just to get the problem resolved. So a student can print their report or for a business to get up and running. Post secondary schools should stop ripping off new or upgrading PC techs. Many provide low quality labs, questionable knowledge of professors at outrageous prices. They’re the criminals. This is why you will get certain quality techs and why so many have to do self-training on minimum wage. I don’t like big box PC stores but I respect their service like the little guys. I’m disappointed with this broadcast extremely. Posted by: Tony | Oct 6, 07 02:31 PM

I have just watched the show on home repairs for computers. It was interesting what happened to you with Nerds on Site. I thought I was the only one to experience a situation. From the first day I called them it took nearly 3 weeks for them to "fix" my computer and only after my having to call constantly to get them to complete the job. The technicial immediately said my problem was the "motherboard" and would have to order one and would be back in 2 days. 9 days later when I called he said should be a couple more days and he would call (meantime I don't have a computer to use). 4 days later left another message. Few days later told that the part he has purchased and tested was not working so would have to get another. He then came a few days later at 3.40pm left at 8pm but now my video card was not working. When he replaced the mother board and video card he couldn't get the programs to run. Eventually my bill was $500 which I paid to get rid of him. He said he had to by-pass some wiring but everything would be ok. The computer worked for a while, although very slowly. After a few months I couldn't stand it and took it to a local repair shop. He checked it out, corrected what had been done incorrectly, and got it back to me in less than 24 hours. Wish I had done that in the first place; why didn't I? Didn't want to have to unhook everything and try to put it back together later. Thought someone coming into the house would be better. Interesting Nerds on Site head office say they have referrals. I complained and they didn't answer. It was an expensive lesson for me. Posted by: Carol | Oct 6, 07 04:13 PM

You know, I have to agree that this story was flawed. Even if the system you were taking around was brand new, it still could have had malware on it, because it has been known for manufacturers to ship computers with 'bad things' on it. But you were taking around a computer that had been used, had limewire on it (I saw that too), but you KNOW there was nothing bad on it? How? Look at the stats people, in June or July this year we saw an increase of malware of 20%. Yes, most were variants of previously known malicious software, but a huge number were not. So I'm less than convinced. Best thing consumers can do is learn how to use their computer. Find a training service, go to night school, and learn how to protect yourself. But people don't want to do that...do they? They don't want to learn how to use their machine, they want to play and risk turning their $1000 investment into a boat anchor rather than pay, in money or time, to learn how to surf safely. Posted by: Frank | Oct 6, 07 06:50 PM

Enjoyed the show. A bit of an eye opener for a lot of people. Here is the "biggest tip" for you to share with your viewers. Most software problems are caused by people using the internet and are browsing internet adult content sites. Yes, porn sites. Here's what happens. 1. They google and then go to a site or then the site re-routes to another site. 2. They try to view the parts of the site....OH OH!! 3. The user gets a pop-up about "...adding an Video Active X Object.." The system wants you to activate this add-on. THE PROBLEM FACED BY THE USER... "THE POP-UP DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO EXIT."!!! IT ONLY ALLOWS YOU TO SELECT THE "YES" BUTTON. ( I TELL PEOPLE IF YOU GET THIS TYPE OF MESSAGE OR ARE IN A SIMILIAR SITUATION...IMMEDIATELY - POWER OFF YOUR HARD DRIVE. Don't even try something else. POWER OFF YOUR HARD DRIVE. Most of the general population ...selects the "Yes" button and don't realized they have compromised their computer. Within a short period time, specific files start to fail...and there goes the computer. So sad. Computer fixers and people who sell virus software are making a killing on this one little problem. And people are embarrassed to say it was because they were viewing porn.....so they tend to pay the price. So remember Porn and Non-porn viewers. If you get strange pop-ups, and or can't seem to get out of a window.. TURN OFF THAT DAMN HARD DRIVE!!!! Please share this with your viewers. Thanks. Posted by: Bob | Oct 6, 07 08:27 PM

NOT ALL TECHS ARE LIKE THIS. Furthermore, suggesting to look online for solutions is an excellent idea, BUT.... let's be realistic here: how can you be sure the solutions you find are 100% accurate? if you were to google the topic without knowing anything about computers, would you be able to fix it yourself? All I can say to this is, if I had a dime for every time someone would come to me with a slowed-down and spyware/virus riddled machine, after installing ''super-duper-miracle-working computer fixer 2007'' on their system, or being unable to use their computer, because some kind soul suggested for them to ''delete explorer.exe''? also, one more thing... I have to point this out, but the MDG guy who used the virus excuse didn't even use the correct definition for the terminology..... trojans *aren't* the oldest out there.... the ''worm'' is. and furthermore, they *don't* delete data, or screw up your computer, at least not directly... in actuality, what they do is serve as BACK-DOORS for hackers, or other malicious programs to get onto the infected computer and do the damage(hence the name "Trojan", as in "Trojan Horse"). So I give a big, fat "F" to that MDG rep :~). Don't believe me? look it up. Posted by: Vernon | Oct 6, 07 09:02 PM

I see that others have spotted the various different software you had on the computers to break the encryption of copyright DVD Movies. Like AnyDVD and DVD Shrink. What was the purpose of those on the test computers? Also the prices that you say the memory cost is can be a great difference if you chose memory that has a name brand with lifetime warranty. Also notebook memory is more expensive. There is cheap memory... but you only get what you pay for. I have been in the computer business for a long time. I thought your test was a bit unfair. With the system relying on a few components to be able to boot then it could be hard to know for sure what the problem was. I understand that your mem chip if pulled out and inspected would have had a visual defect and at that time maybe if the tech had the same type of memory he could have tested that. But memory has changed over the years and so has other plug-in components. And for every tech guy out there to have every type of variation to test then it really is guess work sometimes. You choose the most likely problem and try that. If any tech guy out there says he knows all about computers... get rid of him. It is an ongoing learning process even after 23 years for me. And like one other post I read said... There are some people that should never have a computer. They will not take your advice and they are their worst enemy. And they talk to others that do not know what is what and then they blame the tech guy for everything. I have run into those type of people over the years and I regret it as you go out of your way to educate them and they still blame you in the end. Lucky for me I have started screening that type and try to read them before I do any work for them. Another thing I have seen is alot of the time the person with the most certs or diplomas knows the least but will be the one these companies hire. And so you see what you get with the places you tested. Posted by: Scott | Oct 7, 07 12:01 AM

Are you seriously bashing computer repair companies for wanting to charge for quick fixes? Have you ever taken a car to a mechanic and had something done for free? I highly doubt it. Also you really think that smart ass kid is a real computer expert? Sure it's easy to sit there and bash people when you know exactly what the problem is. I have worked in the industry and have repaired over 1000 computers. A ram chip blown so bad that a computer won't even POST is not a common problem at all. Text books say it is, but experience says its not. A blown motherboard is an extremely common problem and most of the techs quickly diagnosed that as the problem, which 99% of the time is correct when a computer won't even POST. You did not give the specs on the computer in question so a replacement may have been the best option for the customer given the diagnoses. As far as techs looking at data, how many times has it been reported that some pedophile has been caught by a "hero tech" that has found child porn their computer. We all seem to be ok with it then. Would you leave your bank statements or naked pictures of yourself on you car seat when you take it in for repair? Of course not, so why leave them on your computer when you take it in for repair. With removable media such as blank cd\dvds and usb drives as cheap as they are these days, there is no reason for people to leave data like this on their systems. The last thing, I ordered pizza to be delivered to my house the other day and it cost $23. WHAT A SCANDAL, I could have driven 4 hours from my house and got the same size pizza for $6. I guess I got gouged by the pizza company. What a bunch of crooks. Guess thats what I get for being too lazy to do my own research and just call someone else to solve all my problems for me. Posted by: Tyler Novak | Oct 7, 07 03:11 AM

As a former Nerd customer I am a little worried right now , my hard drive was sent to the clean room and i was sent to the cleaners for 3000.00 to get my wedding photos back. Posted by: Sue Smith | Oct 7, 07 04:48 AM

I'm a second year IT student at the Nova Scotia Community College. To see something like this take place with unsuspecting customers is more then just disturbing, it's morally wrong. One of the courses we take is about how you deal with people who don't understand how a computer works and to hear some of the things the techs are saying just blows my mind! As for the $2000 specialized room, thats more for designing things that would be launched into space, not for something that sits on a desk in your home or office. I'm still stuck with disbelief at how it was all handled and even more so that the techie who took your data without permission is still allowed to work in, around or near a computer after violating someones privacy and copying their data onto their system. Posted by: Anthony Welsh | Oct 7, 07 11:43 AM

BACKUPS BACKUPS BACKUPS WARRANTY WARRANTY WARRANTY REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT Posted by: Media guy | Oct 7, 07 12:34 PM

Let me tell you why most computer techs aren't very good. The schools turn out thousands of poorly trained graduates and those that manage to find a job end up working for $10 an hour at the big chains. The good techs with experience get the cushy high-paying jobs at private companies and places like Humber College. If you take your computer to a place with the $10 an hour no-experience techs you will pay less but chances are it won't be fixed properly. If you take your computer to a place with certified and well-paid techs it will usually be fixed properly, but you will pay good money for it (I'm talking $150 plus parts). Also consider this: 10 years ago a good computer system cost $3000. Today, thanks mainly to Dell, profit margins are cut to the bone and a good computer system can be had for $1000 and a cheap one for $600. Computer companies and retailers make very little profit on the hardware. Therefore they have to make money on installation, repairs and upgrades. That's the reason Best Buy formed the Geek Squad in the first place. Techs are under a great deal of pressure from their corporate management to make money by upselling. Consumers are reluctant to spend hundreds of dollars on repairs when a new computer costs about the same. This might be why some of the techs in the video were offering new computers because they know most customers won't want to pay for the repair. We already have disposable printers that aren't worth even buying ink for because a new one costs less than the ink cartridges. I believe in our time we will see the disposable computer and most techs will be out of a job. Posted by: SteveTech | Oct 7, 07 01:21 PM

I've been doing support and repair on all types of computer systems for some time. Most of the comments from experienced tech are right on the money. I thought your show brought up some very good points but the pricing on the RAM thing was out of line. Sure you can shop around and install it yourself, as you can in repairing anything, but markup on parts is common to any repair business. I think people in general need to become more competent with all the new gizmos they buy to make their life more fun or to do more things like print their own picture, etc. In my experience most of the problems are software related, and by extension inflicted by the computer industry and it's continual round of security updates. In terms of a failed memory chip, I think that it was amazing that only a few of the techs got it right. Same goes for a bad system file. The real problem is that people don't actually want to pay the real costs to have their computers fixed. It takes a lot of experience and training to be able to actually figure out what the problem is, sometimes more than the machine is worth at the base price of replacing it. However the data on it is priceless for the most part, so here's a novel idea. Use the backup facility that is in all operating systems and backup religiously. If you don't want to pay for the computer to be fixed buy a new one for about $500 or so, and restore your data. The cost of computer ownership goes far beyond simply the cost of the machine, and is a multiple of that base cost. It's not like buying a blender or a TV, it's a far more complicated and virtual device. The other thing you didn't bring up was the dreadful state of tech support that you get from all the technology vendors. The computer business is unusual in that it's probably the worst for customer service, but everyone put's up with it. Posted by: steviej | Oct 7, 07 02:15 PM

Part 1 of 2 CBC normally noted for fairness in reporting on both sides of an issue seems to have altered course here. Erica Johnson's report is far from impartial. She strikes me as an embittered consumer on a mission. Taking a sample group of technicians (or not), set-up by other technicians (or not) who have been deemed "true techs" only because they work at a college is preposterous. The reality is the permutations of what can go wrong with a computer system are astronomical in the real world. I strongly suspect that if roles were reversed the Humber "techs" would not have fared any better than the ones they set-up. Practical certification in this area is impossible. Technology changes so fast that in the two years it would take to write and have an approved curriculum, let alone teach it…the technology and course would be redundant. Good techs know this and read voraciously on all fronts not least of which include the manuals that are constantly revised to address errors in hardware and software. It is an industry in speed numbing flux. As always, you can find good and bad in any profession including doctors, lawyers, police, mechanics, plumbers, journalists, technicians etc. This is human nature. Posted by: Brian Mitchell | Oct 7, 07 03:03 PM

Part 2 of 2 A good tech like a good doctor can not diagnose every problem they came across in minutes. Some problems are seemingly obvious, some not and it is doubtful you would ask a plumber to diagnose your high blood pressure because he's cheaper. A technician worth his salt is not cheap, and rightfully so. Whenever an industry in need, appears, it brings with it the best and worst available. Sorting it out is always difficult. In some of the previous posts I have read, the consensus from the knowledgeable is consistent. Posted by: Brian Mitchell | Oct 7, 07 03:05 PM

Our entire skilled service industries have gone sideways. Whether we talk about trades or computers it's all the same. Education has been underfunded, apprenticeships have been minimalized and service has become more of a public relations game than actual ability. I remember the good old days when what we did was more important than how we make people feel. We've created an environment that allows the incompetent to thrive. As long as they are good with the PR, that is. Posted by: Rick | Oct 7, 07 03:23 PM

As a former member of the Nerds on Site crew, I found your show more than a little interesting. The performance of the Nerd was particularly awful in my opinion. I believe that I could have diagnosed the bad memory within a few minutes; it’s simply a matter of applying logic to the symptoms presented. I am amazed that he thought it was the hard disk; if that had been the problem there was have been error messages displayed on the monitor, which clearly there were not. For those repair persons who though it was the motherboard – they were right, in a way. The RAM is part of the motherboard. Where they erred was not swapping out the RAM before declaring the board defective. Having said that, your comments on pricing were very unfair. The reason I left Nerds on Site was that it was almost impossible to make a living doing home computer service. 50% of the labour charge (or parts markup) is paid to the Nerds on Site corporate office. Of the remain 50%, the Nerd must pay all his own expenses – vehicle, advertising, tools, training etc. And then there is all the travel time for which there is no pay at all. So if he charged you $114 (before tax), he would get $67 for his time. How long did he spend, including travel? And I know that Nerds on Site has a policy of quoting their rates before they come to the door – so what’s your issue here? You also criticized the repair person who tried to sell you a RAM strip that was 4 times larger. You did not take into account that the extra RAM would make you computer work much better; and his markup was fair considering the home service and installation. He was NOT overselling you – he was proposing the best solution. Posted by: David Truman | Oct 7, 07 03:44 PM

I particularly enjoyed the story told by the former Best Buy employee in which he was reprimanded for not charging on a quick repair. His superior was absolutely in the right for hauling him aside. Technical departments sell a service. In this day and age service is a commodity that is and should be charged for. You wouldn't let that same customer walk out of your store with a printer would you? Then why would you let them walk out with a technical service that clearly has a price - and a cost - associated with it? Expect to pay at least an estimate fee. that guy standing behind the counter isn't standing there for free. As far as RAM prices go, you can almost always find RAM for cheaper than in stores. Ram ricing was a poor example to use due to its extremely volatile pricing - just like gas. If a retailer purchases inventory to have on hand, that retailer can end up having stock on the shelf for months at an old price. Yes it is more expensive, but it is on the shelf when YOU need it. Everything's cheaper if you don't mind waiting. If it's on hand, you're gonna pay more. Posted by: SN | Oct 7, 07 05:53 PM

As the owner of an onsite IT company, I agree that there are scoundrels in the business. Viewing your report, you cited issues inaccurately and greatly accentuated the negative points. RAM at $15? I pay 4 to 10 times as much for RAM. I would not put cheap, low quality parts in my customers' PC. Students have few resources, so we can excuse them. An operating system reload for $60? With what I pay my employees, the job would have to be 10 minutes or less for there to be any profit in the job. Quality people are not cheap. Or should a business owner not be entitled to a profit? A typical data backup and OS reload takes 1 1/2 to 10 hours. Installing Windows XP takes 45 minutes on all but high end PCs. If the source CD is XP SP1, the SP2 upgrade takes at least double the install time. There is an OS repair install that is intended for the IT experts, but that is not what was said. A repair install still takes at least an hour - if it works. A corrupt operating system is not a simple diagnosis or fix. Windows has thousands of files and the symptoms produced by a corrupt OS are not unique to that cause. Posted by: Gary M(near Washington DC USA) | Oct 7, 07 06:46 PM

I LOVED how the piece called those 3 consultants "wizards" just because they work at a university and the rest were called "geeks" or "nerds". What made them so special anyway? They fix college computers and teach a class on "computer know-how", so that makes them 'wizards'... right. The one repair guy had the issue right and charged them $35 for the RAM stick which is twice the price of a 256 mb stick on-line but NOT in store. Go to compUSA or bestbuy and you pay that much for RAM unless it's on sale. Like everyone has already said, this is true of ANY repair service. most people don't know how simple it is to replace computer parts so a business is going to exploit that in order to make profit. Granted the times when the problem is simple and easily fixed, the fee should be MINIMUM(unless it's something like an unplugged cable, then it should cost nothing). I mean, the guy needs to get paid for travel expenses and the like. Posted by: matt | Oct 7, 07 08:50 PM

It is very easy to sit back (having sabotaged the ram) and say how easy it is to fix. Yes, mostly I speak in defense of the Geeks/Nerds/Techs... so, what I would suggest, is that the reporters repeat this "undercover" scenario... but this time include the things that all the "Nerds and Geeks, and Techs" need to see (like BEEPING during the POST), and explain so we ALL can see what it is they "missed" AND include how the school's students did in the SAME scenario. I think you will find that everyone will fare very similarly. Posted by: MACK | Oct 7, 07 11:43 PM

Your group of so called "experts" absolutely floored me. First, they installed a bad RAM module into a motherboard, one that had obviously had a major electrical trauma. Why on EARTH would they believe that to be a good idea? Second, the laptop with the corrupted/ deleted system files. $60.00 to repair? Exactly *how* long ago was this woman ever around the market? A clean reinstall of windows takes about 2 hours. That is drivers, OS, and updates. Often after that, the customer wants all of their little apps installed again, and the settings changed, and email accounts configured etc. which snowballs the time exponentially. Yet I still only charge the two hours. $76.00 plus tax. The question of markup made me sick. Yes, I agree, the markups I heard on the show were extravagant to say the least *BUT* if I order a part from my wholesaler, I mark it up. Why? Because I am ordering it on my dollar, it is costing me interest, and I am the one who is eating that loss until it is sold. I have to make my money back too. I certainly do not mark up the prices as specified in the show. If it is so darn cheap on the internet, why don't you just order it yourself then. Oh wait, because you don't have a computer that functions to do it, and you have absolutely no idea what part you actually need, thats why. Get your facts straight before you start to paint everyone with the same brush, CBC enquirer. Posted by: mike | Oct 8, 07 02:44 AM

Another thing that the 'experts' missed was that by doing a repair of windows, more often than not, due to Microsoft's ever-changing validation scheme, the updates from IE7 forward won't install? And that a clean installation of Windows is the best way to ensure that the problems don't return? As a PC tech by trade, we don't want to see our customers back. We have found that our customers are willing to pay a little more to get it done right, rather than to get it done cheap. Posted by: Em | Oct 8, 07 09:19 AM

I'm self employed in this field and in the last couple years a growing number of my clients come to me after being savagely burned. I sit there in offices and homes listening to story after story from infuriated people who swear never to call them again. Here's a good one: Woman calls geeksquad complaining she cant see videos on youtube. Tech tells her the videocard is shot, convinces her she needs to pay $500 for a performance line nvidia that 'supports overlays'. The card being replaced was a radeon 9000. She gets her computer back 3 days later with a low end GeForce card, which at the time, I could buy new for under $130. Problem still isn't fixed. Tech tells her now that there's probably a problem on the motherboard too. At this point I get involved, turns out just to be riddled with trojans and spyware corrupting flash player. I get it cleaned up and protected in under an hour for which I would have charged her 30 bucks, but instead took her old video card in trade because I actually felt bad for what she went through. The old videocard of course works beautifully and has a home, ironically, in my HTPC box. Posted by: Exx0dus | Oct 8, 07 02:10 PM

I wasn't at all surprised by the results shown in the program. In all honesty I thought it would have been lower than 30%. I've taken some schooling, learned on my own, and received certifications over the past 16 years and I'm always amazed when I speak with MCSE certified technicians or those with degrees and find they have little or no idea what they are doing. I noticed that not one of the techs actually turned on the computer, which would have been my first step. If indeed it doesn't turn on and a bad motherboard is suspected then removing the RAM and turning it on again helps diagnose and eliminate that possibility. That is when a physical inspection of the RAM is taken. The problem should have been diagnosed in 10 minutes. With the laptop, a repair install would not be the first fix. Running a simple System File Check scan (sfc /scannow) repairs or replaces any corrupt system files without reinstalling Windows. The seven bad technicians, along with 'basement repair techs' or 'part-time technicians' are exactly why knowledgeable technicians like myself are under-paid and under-appreciated. Stories like yours don't help much either. As for overcharging, I often fix computers for customers without charging because it's a simple fix however I am always reminded that the reason someone comes to me for repairs is because they can't fix it themselves. Surely my proven skills and knowledge are worth something. No one works for free. Posted by: Dan Smtih | Oct 8, 07 11:32 PM

I watched the episode on TV, and recorded it as well to view several times. I too am a computer tech... industry certified as well as certified with several PC manufacturers. I found several things interesting. Computer parts pricing varies dependent on the part manufacturer, time of year, and length of warranty for that part. In home diagnostics will vary depending on what the tech is able or willing to take with them. One of the techs found the ram bad, and all he had was a 1 gig stick with him. Do your techs realize that since Vista came out, you need to have 1 gig minimum and better off with 2 gig to run smoothly? It may be a sell, but it HELPS that customer in the end. The majority of house calls at the moment are problems with Vista as people just do not know how to use the o/s properly and bought it because a salesperson told them it was what they needed. You know how many parts a tech would need to take to diagnose an in home problem properly? A power supply, pc133 ram, ddr 2100 ram, ddr3200 ram, ddr2 ram each in a 256 and 512 capacity and the latter stick in 512 and 1 gig. Then a cpu fan, agp video card, pci express video card, network card, hard drive, xp o/s, vista o/s...should I go on? You also go on to complain about some of the pricing....what about the trip charges? There was no mention of that, there should be. You want same day or next day in home service, then you better pay for it. Does a plumber work for free to fix the leak in your bath tub? Posted by: tech in BC | Oct 9, 07 12:49 AM

Certainly the guy of nerdsonsite took some bad desicions, but this is the most biased report I could find on this matter. Complaining about doubling the price of memory modules? why don't you lazy asses go and buy them on the store? you want it at home, then pay the price. This kind of problem is very hard to diagnose, and more when it is done in purpose. I'm sure that car mechanics are very expensive, but we don't want to get our hands dirty, right? The same is with computers. You can spend hours and even days to diagnose a problem without the knowledge. So, how much is your time worth? Posted by: dotnetfreak | Oct 9, 07 04:06 AM

"A good tech like a good doctor can not diagnose every problem they came across in minutes" Fortunately in Canada 99% of doctor's visits are not gunshot wounds. Would you suggest that doctors not spend time learning how to diagnose and treat them? At the same time, would you consider it a professional job if a doctor tells all the things that can go wrong with your heart and then tells you to start scheduling for a quadruple bypass (just in case), if all you may have is heart burn. That is what was done here when we moved all the way up to a clean room before any real tests had been done. On the other hand, it could just have been prepping the customer for the worst, so they would be relieved with just the cost of replacing the RAM. It all comes down to professionalism. Professionalism is more than just doing something for money. There are a lot of people, in every job title, who do the the exact amount of work that is needed to get paid. Then there are the professionals. These are the folks who go the extra mile because that is what is required to do the job properly, rather than stopping at the point that you think you'll make less money by fixing it than selling a new one. We live in a capitalist society. If you aren't any use, why should I pay you, and then pay someone else to fix what I paid you for? All techs can tell horror stories about customers as well, but if we are going to call ourselves professionals we've got to suck it up and decide.....are we technicians or are we salespeople. Posted by: Trent | Oct 9, 07 08:37 AM

I didn't see the episode, but read enough of the comments that I believe I know what is going on. I have a full time job as a network engineer in a good company but help people out when I have the time. Often you go into a situation where the user, or their buddy that "knows computers" has tried to do some of the work themselves and you are now picking up the pieces. Experience counts. I have seen things present as one thing and find it is another after talking to the customer. I had someone tell me "the computer is no longer connecting to the network" on a system I had configured the week earlier. While troubleshooting, I questioned further and she explained that she changed the "flat thing". Turns out she replaced the harddrive after talking to tech support of the computer manufacturer. Unlike cars, HVAC and other systems, there is no magic cable that can diagnose the problem and some people will get it wrong. I had my car in the shop because the check engine light went on and they told me it would be $150(US) to hook it to a machine and read the code. Or $145(US) to just change out the O2 sensor which might be the problem but they couldn't tell me exactly without the diagnostic. A common mistake is to do something once for free. Once done, you instantly own every problem they have and they will call you and expect you to fix them for free also. Peter Hynes had it right when he stated why he doesn't do workstation work anymore, "People who do not know how to use a computer and should not be using a computer and people who want it fixed for nothing.". As for overcharging, if I do the research, purchase the parts, and deliver them, I charge a 15% markup or $15(US) whichever is more on the final cost to me. I am not shy about telling this to my customer either. I have had one person tell me it was too much and I let them do the research and leg work after that. It didn't take long for them to realize the good deal they were getting. Posted by: Bill Baker | Oct 9, 07 04:14 PM

A few points: - Terminology like "nerds", "geeks" and "techies" is not appropriate. Try calling a mechanic a "grease monkey" and you'll find out. - The industry is not very regulated, but troubleshooting computers is not the same as troubleshooting car problems. - The guys caught doing what they did were bad techs, especially the tech who saved all the client data onto his laptop...there is no running away from that. This piece caused more fear amongst the general public than it should've. Advice to techs and tech companies: If you don't know the cause of the problem, just say so. When in doubt, honesty is the best policy. Posted by: Average Joe | Oct 9, 07 08:44 PM

I couldn't get everything in I wanted to say on my above message, so I will do the most important part now.....and that is to inform the public. Everyone knows Mike Holmes...right? Well do the same thing he suggests. Go to a reputable establishment with CERTIFIED techs. Get more than 1 estimate if need be, and when you meet a tech, your gut should be able to tell you something about the person...like does he care about YOU...the customer. A good tech knows that the company doesn't make his paycheck, the customers do. Repeat service is the key. For full service to customers, upgrades, ones that are needed, should always be mentioned. Ask what the customer uses the computer for and option to that accordingly. And always, ALWAYS, back up your data weekly. To either another hard drive, or better yet, burn to disk. I still have yet to meet a person who says Family pictures aren't important. Posted by: tech in BC con't | Oct 10, 07 01:24 AM

This is like complaining because the teenage kids at McDonald's served you cold fries. The experienced / knowledgeable IT workers are getting paid a lot more money than these guys to do more difficult work elsewhere. They are not driving around in a ridiculous car helping old ladies find the 'any' key. Posted by: Nick | Oct 10, 07 09:34 AM

Disgusting pay out by those techies & totally unfair spin. If it only takes you 45 seconds to find a problem, all the power to you - however that experience still needs paying for. You wouldn't expect a plumber not to charge if a job was fixed in record time. Also, PCs are infinitely more complex systems - just because you knew what you broke doesn't mean it's an easy way to diagnose for another party. Posted by: Jorgen Smith | Oct 10, 07 10:02 AM

I just watched your program online and in 30 years of watching Marketplace, I have never seen a more one-sided story that was so out for blood from the onset. It was assumed that you would be ripped off and you did not even have a good word for those who fixed your problem. You expected that people should not be paid or be make a profit. You were looking for a band aid for your laptop. If a system file is gone, you need to find out why and not just replace it. It is like taking medication for pain and not for the cure. It is imperative that files are backed up before making an operating system repair. Most system disks that come with consumer computers wipe out the hard drive and restore it to factory condition. There goes your photo collection. I service my own computers as a film and video editor and those of family and friends. I am self-taught, with an aptitude for diagnostics (not limited to computers). Computer problems can be difficult to find. Computer problems are more often than not caused by viruses or point of contact failures than the actual components. I have found loose RAM, bad RAM slots and mismatched RAM, but never outright fried RAM. It was highly unfair that you had some smug university techs who have no concept of the real world set this bait. And your comments that made fun of techs moving around parts and listening to the computer, etc. shows just how unqualified to you are to comment. These are standard procedures of narrowing down a problem. I will fault the techs as well - If they are working on site, they should come equipped with parts for diagnostics such as a power supply and one stick of each of the common types of RAM. They should not be condescending to the client and they should not charge anything if they did not solve the problem. As biased as it was, this program should serve as a wake-up call for all involved - users and service techs. Posted by: Dennis Kutchera | Oct 10, 07 11:25 AM

A comment on the markup: Get pizza delivered, made by a recipe that is tested and tastes good, already prepared, cooked and ready to eat - $20, $30, more... Make it yourself, $5. Get it? With regards to the 'experts' and their comments: These are people teaching computers at a college level, in a corporate environment. There's that old adage, those that can, do, those that can't...you know the rest... Posted by: Techie | Oct 10, 07 01:03 PM

As a Onsite provider myself I have few things to say. 1. I'm not entirely surprised that there were bad techs. I think the nerds on site and geek squad guys were out to lunch, why send a HDD to a clean room when you can mount it to your laptop? I agree with the general theme out there, it's an unregulated unlicensed industry, I don't agree with that. There's no accountability and anyone with a screw driver can call himself a geek. We do need some reform in this industry. I often have to clean up after the $14.99/hr techs who not only made a big mess but made the client and her cheque book regret ever owning a computer. Something needs to be done but painting us all by the same brush is unfair and a cheap stunt. 2. The failures and pricing is out of whack. A shorted Ram module is rare, though easy enough to detect if suspected. Blown caps and a fried processor could cause the same symptoms and would have to be narrowed down, though in some cases the cost of replacing the mobo and processor would be cheaper than the time for diagnosis, especially if the machine is aged. It is true that this is a simple FIX, but it's a RARE PROBLEM and TRICKY to diagnose (though not impossible and not needing a clean room.) Posted by: William Conner | Oct 10, 07 08:32 PM

3.I think the pricing expectations set out by marketplace were unfair. Nobody, in Calgary at least, could live on $25/hour (once travel is factored in) and run their business, it can't be done, and shouldn't be. I do this as a living, not as a student, not as a hobby. I have a car, insurance, training (which is on going and expensive), tools and a family to pay for. $65/hour doesn't cut it either for a one man shop. Some of my tools are $600 a piece, some software tools are $300 a year, because I pay for my licences as opposed to pirating like the $14.99/hr guy. Markup is fair, simple. I charge 25 points over retail for any hardware and always give my clients the option to run to London drugs or future shop while I wait, few do. I think the story was unbalanced, and should have been a two parter. You're trying to educate your audience about how to make an informed decision about computer repair, you can't do that in the time you alloted, especially when it's a negative piece, where's the rebutal? Call me, I'll be glad to defend the profession. 4. Bonus criticism for the techs and the testers, Why the heck is nobody wearing an ESD bracelet? Don't tell me you don't need them, yes you can get away with out them, but you risk the components. Waiving a RAM stick in the air ungrounded in front of the reporter just blows all credibility the student might have had, and those contractors should all have been grounded as well. That should be the FIRST thing a customer looks for and is a good indication that techie knows what he's doing. ESD does happen, and it can be lethal to components (speaking from experience here) and for the $10 it cost for a decent strap (or make one yourself out of wire for god sake ppl) it's really just irresponsible and childish to insist on not using one. Posted by: William Conner | Oct 10, 07 08:34 PM

I was the main tech for a store in Ottawa, and then later the main tech for a chain in Calgary (the company moved me there). My comments on this whole story: - For those critical of this show, get real. If this was particularly one-sided, then they wouldn't have gone through 10 home-visit techs and 4 stores. - I wholeheartedly agree with charging the customer for home visits, BUT I would never charge a full hour for a 2 min job. Admittedly I would charge a 1/2 hour for time, expertise and travel though. - I never charged for jobs that took less than 5 min. For those of you saying this is wrong, have you considered that this kind of work can also be an effective means of inexpensive advertising? I've had tons of repeat customers because they considered me to be honest and trustworthy as a result. - Paying more for stock on site (at the house) is not all too unusual, though 100% markups are extreme. The customer is paying for convenience. A 10-20% markup would be much fairer though. If the customer doesn't want to pay, then let the customer understand that they have to run to the store themselves for cheaper. - Problems with systems are admittedly harder to diagnose immediately. But memory would have been the very FIRST thing I would have checked. I've found that usually to be the main cause of problems, before anything else. - I doubt most techs out there would have been able to diagnose the problem within 5 min, but definitely should have been able within 15 min. The odd super-rare problem (shorts in a board, faulty cards, etc.) would admittedly take longer but this definitely wasn't the case. - None of them should have ever gone to the point of recommending a new system... period. Inexcusable and incompetent. Posted by: Terrence Lo | Oct 11, 07 11:00 AM

I am a the owner of Cat 'N Mouse Computers in Swan River MB, Canada. I am disgusted at the way the people on Market Place were treated in regards to their computer system. The Nerd in question should have been fired immediately and be made to issue an apology to the end user. It is my believe that customer privacy and dignity come first. If I can empower the end user by showing them how to fix the problem themselves then I have done a good days work. Posted by: Christopher Yelinek | Oct 15, 07 04:08 AM

Completely out of context reporting. Taking your hard drive to a clean room CAN cost as much as $2000. The guy didn't say for her to do it he merely explained what it costs. Most ram comes with lifetime warranty for a reason. Hardly ever fails. I question the knowledge of the so called Humber experts. No tech would do a windows system repair/reisntall without data backup. That's just stupid so why would your experts recommend it? Posted by: Omar | Oct 15, 07 11:16 AM

there's no way in hell I'm going to somebody's House (That's 25 bucks right there. I should charge people 50), diagnose bad ram, go buy some from the store and then only charge them 25 buck (the price of the ram). I'd go bankrupt in a week. if they bought the computer to me, I Charge them 50 for that job, and 75 if I go to them. Also,I don't buy my ram online where it's cheaper, I buy it from the store. It's easier to return the part if it goes out or is defective. I do use neweggs sometime, but only for my best costumers who are patient enough to wait for the parts. Bad ram also make other pieces seem bad. it will make your hard corrupt or flunk hdd drive tests. that why I always try to check ram first. Most people haven't figure that out on their own yet while they are diagnosing the problem. The 2nd test was BS. Viruses are usually the only thing that cause corrupted files. Nobody would ever, ever guess that somebody intentionally deleted system files. I would have charge them 50 for a fresh install, 75 if you want your data too. If you care about your privacy you better have enough sense to back your data up. you give up your privacy by having me or anybody else fix your computer. I'm also professional. I will never tell what I've seen. I had 2 computers that had some crazy stuff on them (one was criminal activity, the other was just nasty). I keep those people's info private. I could had one guy in jail and the other people business would have got shut down (they had deleted the files. they bought me the computer to recover some other files that they had deleted, but they had obviously forgot about those files). I keep your privacy private. Those people had an agenda to promote. When you come to me you are paying for my intelligence. People think this work should be free because it doesn't involve manual labor. But it involves mental labor. guess what? In this world mental labor always costs more than physical. Posted by: Vance Lockett | Oct 16, 07 08:24 PM

I am in the business and run it VERY honestly and competently. A couple of things after watching this video. 1. Do you REALLY think you are going to get competent computer service from a "geek" place? If you are an expert pro in the field, or whatever field, would YOU work for such a demeaning company for Min. wage? A computer is the most complicated thing you will ever own. More so than your car. It's a good idea to actually take some time and get to know how to use it, and maintain it. Places like Best Buy and Circuit City pour their money into marketing, NOT training, and they take advantage of the unknowing consumer. That being said, the problems with this story are that diagnosing a bad memory chip is not an easy task. There have been many similar reports as this one, where they artificially damage a computer (other ones they actually put in a bad hard drive cable) and expect a tech to diagnose it. A good tech looks for the most common and most likely causes first, and since it is VERY rare for a memory chip, or especially a cable, to just go bad, it's not the first place one would look, and a tech wouldn't expect the customer to actually physically break some wires or a chip. It is NOT a fair or accurate test. In addition, while yes, you can buy some cheap ram chips online yourself, that is NOT what you are doing here. $35 was NOT out of line. I guess it slipped this reporter's mind, or she was more interested in making a story, than to realize that the tech does need to make a profit, and if you expect competent service, you DO have to pay for the tech's time and expertise if they are doing a good and honest job. Posted by: David | Oct 18, 07 10:49 AM

I Bet half these tech guys just memorized the A+ Hardware material, wrote their A+ exam and starting working right away, with little or no experience. How these guys missed the RAM is unreal. The first thing you always check is all of the hardware. Checking wires and connections includes things like RAM. Not 1 of these clowns remembered to check that!? Unreal. Notice how most of those guys didn't even use grounding bracelets before opening the case? Real smart! Posted by: Frankie | Oct 18, 07 05:29 PM

What a joke. You could diagnose that problem during the power on self test. Posted by: Chris | Oct 20, 07 09:15 PM

Hi Guys My Name is James Harding I am the owner of 24 Hour Geeks one of the companies that was unable to pinpoint the problem but did not charge for our time.Everyone has been talking about this so here are the details of the machine and the call. The machine was a Dell Dimension which the customer said was 3 years old and apparently just stopped working. When the power was turned on there was NO Post (Power on self test) and NO Bios beeps. Our tech made sure all devices were secure in their slots and restarted with the same results. Our tech then tested the power supply which tested as supplying the incorrect voltage to the mother board.Our tech did return with a new power supply but got the same results. He then did call a senior tech for advice he was told not to replace anything on the motherboard (CPU,Videocard etc) as doing so on a blown motherboard would likely damage the replacement parts especially if there seemed to have been a voltage problem. The only way the techs that did fix this problem would have been able to determine that it was the ram would be to swap out all the parts in the machine which potentially could have blown those parts and rendered them garbage (believe me the number of expensive video cards and CPUs I've blown trying them on bad motherboards has cost me thousands) The customer was offered a used Dell machine running a licenced copy of Windows XP Pro/2.8GHZ Processor/512MB ram/40GB Hard Drive for the cost that the other techs charged her for the repair on her machine. Posted by: James Harding (C.E.G) 24 Hour Geeks | Oct 22, 07 03:04 AM

Part 2 of 3 As for the Laptop they sent to the stores, if the tech or the Humber College XPert told one of my customers "just drop in the installation CD and let it run" had been working for me he would have been fired the same day. This is just bad advice and then to tell all your viewers that you just reinstall Windows from the disc and that will solve this problem is horribly irresponsible. System files just don't disappear there is usually a cause. Reinstalling Windows will not repair a bad hard drive. oh and the guy at Infotec better make sure he has liability insurance because after you've spent two to three hours reloading Windows and all the Critical Updates, hardware drivers (if you can find them) and oh yeah all your programs another hour or two, oh and your printer and camera....ok now five hours later go check your email OOPS where has it gone darn and My Documents oh my god where are the files, Oh no and all my Kids pictures and the files I need for work, and the music I purchased and any software purchased online....GONE GONE GONE.....well whose fault might that be? I think the people doing this show might have wanted to try what their experts said (Just reinstall Windows) and see if it worked before they gave this advise to their viewers. They may have rethought this piece of advice afterwards. The company you chose for the purchase of the RAM (which we sell at cost) we no longer buy from as almost all the hardware we purchased their had been returned defective, repackaged and resold to us...guess that's what you get for 29.00. Posted by: James Harding (C.E.G) 24 Hour Geeks | Oct 22, 07 03:09 AM

Enjoyed reading the comments more than the awful story! Best logic: If you go to the doctor and he issues a band aid, do you pay JUST for the band aid - or his x years of schooling and experience? "Profit" is defined as monies left over after overhead (car, gas, depreciation, advertising, parts, labour, on going education... ie: the cost of doing business). As for KNOWING that memory is BAD? MEMTEST runs in what 8 hours? (assuming the computer boots of course). Marketplace could have added the ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER as their placebo. Many (ok, just Dell and Compaq) OEMS will support their hardware after the warranty expires. And it's fun to call India (etc) just to compare notes. Glad to think Humber College could fix a computer for the price of RAM. I'd highly recommend they take a course on BUSINESS 101. Posted by: Jerrold Schiff | Oct 28, 07 11:47 AM

I want to thank you for taking the time to expose some of the smarmy computer "dealers" out there. I am honest to a fault at times and I love to help people when performing my repairs. I have to be invited into people's homes and gain their trust. I have to deal with sensitive information and often embarrassing stuff too. It's important to me to "stop the pain" in the person and make the computer work the way they "want" it to. I feel very blessed to have so many satisfied clients and am quite ashamed at these keyboard jockeys who call themselves "service people" because "they know more than you". I hope someone does this in my town. Posted by: Michael Bellman | Oct 30, 07 12:01 AM

I took a basic computer "fix-it" course years ago and forgot everything. I only have three rules: 1) backup data 2) learn to reformat the hard disk. 3) buy a Mac next time done. Works for me everytime. Posted by: Martin Matyas | Oct 30, 07 12:36 AM

I run a small company for computer repair and web design. I have been in the business of fixing computers for 11 years. Things like this are very common place nowadays and it makes me sick. I am always upfront with my customers, i even share what my cost of the part is, for a replacement i usually charge $5 or $10. The part of the video where they are talking about viruses and spyware are actually pretty common nowadays, even though you might have just surfed the net spyware is such commonplace that it happens from even a Google search. Try this install Spybot Search & Destroy and then do a scan and kill all the spyware found, next do a little surfing and then scan again, you'll be amazed at what you find. With a corrupted system file, unless it's stopping the system from booting it might not pop up. Think of it this way, you don't know if your car is broken if something doesn't happen to let you troubleshoot it. There are several though that will cause the system to boot and you'll get a specific message letting you know the file wasn't found. Theres two ways to fix this. If you're lucky you can copy from a known good system or run system file checker or restore from the windows cd. Worst case you might be able to get away with a repair install of windows otherwise a format and reinstall would be required. Also with a faulty RAM chip windows XP is great about blue screening with great errors, in my experience you almost always only see the BSoD with memory issues. I would suggest talking with several people and ask about a free estimate, most of us would gladly do this if it guarantees your business. Hope i help to let you know that we're not all crooks. Posted by: Paden Clayton | Oct 30, 07 10:47 AM

I was very disappointed with this story, I highly doubt your 'experts' at Humber College would do any better. First of all, it's very rare for RAM to go bad and a lot more common for motherboards to die so I'm not shocked that technicians are assuming it's a bad motherboard. If the customer hadn't been practically hovering over the technician you may have had a more accurate diagnosis. I actually agree with the technician who urged the customer to consider buying a new computer -- I mean it's a waste but if you're looking at a new motherboard (again, when you consider it's rare for RAM to die like that) it's (sadly) usually cheaper buying a new PC. I agree that the technician for Nerds should be fired because it seemed that he concluded it was the hard drive before even opening/testing the system and then used scare tactics about data recovery labs. Posted by: Sandy | Nov 6, 07 08:53 PM

I'd go up against your 'experts' at Humber College any day. I remember when I was in school I learned more from the true geeks in the class than the teachers who were parachuted into the room with the latest Microsoft books in their backpack. It's only been said a thousand times on here that the ram prices were inflated cuz techies are in business to MAKE MONEY. If we gave away our ram for cost how are we supposed to get a slice of pie? I thought that was a totally inappropriate point to dwell on throughout the story. Also, diagnosing the problem.. what were the symptoms? Totally DEAD computer? Did it make ANY noise at all? Normally, a screwed piece of ram will trigger a beep code from the motherboard indicating such.. I didn't hear anything. If I did, I could have diagnosed the problem from the comfort of my lazy boy. It's been mentioned that both the problems were "grey area" problems. I've been fixing computers for 12 years and I've never met anybody who's memorized the enormous list of system files needed to fully boot a WinXP machine. Sure you could expect that kind of diagnosis back in the DOS days but those are long gone pal. Next time you target a whole field of workers to put under a microscope and slam for dumb reasons, why not pick reporters? Posted by: Mike Forbes | Nov 10, 07 03:46 PM

Computer repair stores are the same as auto mechanics. They do what they want and try to get as much as they can. I'm a network administrator so I have to fix servers and PCs that break down as well as many other more complex things. I once turned down a job with a company like nerds to go where you have to have a certain type car and pay for all the graphics on it etc. The reason I turned it down is not because you were rated on customer feedback and satisfaction. They ranked you based on total sales. The techs with the higher monthly billings PER CUSTOMER were the ones who were booked out more often. The lower billing per customer techs were called less and less till they just found other work. They told you to do things like suggest cleanings, anti virus checks etc. Things not needed just to bump up the total bill. I told them to stuff their job as I don't believe in ripping off people. Posted by: Rob | Nov 12, 07 12:21 AM

What terrible reporting. How about i go and take a phone off the hook in your house, then hide it. You'll pay the phone company at least $150 to come to your house and hang it up for you. What if I took the o-ring off the flapper valve in your car? Is the mechanic supposed to say "oh thats a missing flapper o-ring" ? Sabotage is a sneaky and conniving way to test someone. Now to be fair, each of those techs were also complete idiots. The first thing that should have been done was strip all the parts from the board 1 by 1 until it worked; you would have ended up with a bad ram chip. 5 minutes or less. The reason the nerds didnt fire that guy is because he is a paid franchisee. they don't want to give him his 20-30 thousand dollars back. Yes he was scammed too. who'd want to be called a nerd? Have some self respect. People are willing to pay the appliance repairman $300 for 2 hours and a new drive belt. Techs will save your life's data and work's projects, and people will want to give him $40 for his time. Bottom line, people are nothing but whiners, including myself. Posted by: Another Canadian Tech | Nov 13, 07 12:12 AM

Great but you all missed the one point. Pay workers peanuts and all you get is not too bright (sometimes on purpose: sabotage, anyone?), not ethical and uninspired or not caring monkeys. Posted by: techsrusX | Nov 18, 07 06:02 PM

I do computer repairs and you would be amazed at how people and companies lose money to Technical Support. They will use any means necessary to get your money, even giving you the wrong diagnosis or telling you your computer is obsolete, just to sell you a new one. I have seen companies lose thousands of dollars in one day. I am disappointed in anyone that calls themselves a computer technician and rips people off. They literally take you for idiots. Posted by: Brandon Chin | Nov 23, 07 11:45 PM

I have to say that the laptop test done by the CBC was not accurate. First off one big problem with virus detection is that they can often times bring false positives. So the tech may think that there really was a virus. Also they made some standard charges feel like they were overcharging. Charging someone $50 for doing a reinstall of windows is typical. Depending on if they update the install and how fast the computer is it can take a long time. Not to mention depending on the corrupted file it may take a long time to diagnose. Even if the tech was well trained it would still take around an hour for them to find out what is wrong and reinstall windows. You can't expect someone who went through all that training to only be paid $10-20 for their services. Posted by: eM | Nov 24, 07 04:21 PM

A couple of years ago, I was at London Drugs Computer Dept in Edmonton killing time. There was a business man in a suit talking to a "tech" while the tech was looking at the business man's computer which they had hooked up beside the cash register on a small table. Curious, I peeked at the screen and saw a "defrag" display showing disk was 87% fragmented. The conversation was about slow performance. The "tech" told the guy his computer was "out of ram" due to the amount of software he had loaded. A sticker on the case said 256 meg installed. He suggested the guy upgrade to 512 meg for a total cost of around $250. (for a 256 meg upgrade when ram was only $75 or so for 512). I had found some cases to buy cheap, and was paying for it with the second salesman at the till. The guy that was serving me kinda glanced at the "tech" and said "fragmented?" and the tech replied "badly". The guy in the suit left the computer, happy that it was going to be fixed in 3-5 days, when he could have done it himself for NOTHING at home. I still feel like I should have said something. ***I have been into computers since 1981 at Canada Post as a technician. I have built almost 300 computers for charity, friends and family. I am appalled at this type of rip-offs that happen, and I test technicians' knowlege every chance I get to see how little they know. BTW..I am self-taught with NO papers of any kind and I can fix ANY problem a computer may have*** Posted by: Randy C | Nov 24, 07 06:16 PM

Here in the USA, I know of a tech that put customer files on an external drive to move from the old laptop to the new one the customer was buying (this was in the customer's house). Several months later, the external drive was purchased, in shrink-wrap, on the shelf as new. The files still had the customer's files on it -- the customer was a doctor! The doctor filed suit against the computer company and it is in litigation. Not to mention the fraud of selling something used as new. We'll see how that turns out. Posted by: Boethos | Nov 29, 07 03:21 PM

Anyone here who says or thinks a faulty RAM module is something difficult to diagnose is running some sort of spin campaign. These are the facts. If you are a tech and fix computers be it off-site or on, you carry basic testing parts. One chip for each Intel socket for the last 5 yrs (not many) and same thing for AMD. No to mention three standards of RAM! I learned at 12 that you don't want to look like a dumb@ss because you didn't have the simplest of parts to rule out. The computer isn't turning on! It's rather simple. The world thinks it’s OK to be computer stupid. Moreover the guy who told them to just put in the CD and reinstall is also a fake. If it were that simple than why the heck does everyone without complete step by step directions, end up clean installing windows? The best saying ever by the ever growing sea of inept computer users "O that was easy" Or better yet “Mom look I just got an A+ certification from my box of Cheerios!!!” “Now all I have to do is stay clean for a month and get a job at Best Buy” “And don’t worry it’s a big corporation so the person doing the hiring won’t know anything about computers!” “That’s incredible news honey!” Posted by: RealityCheck | Jan 1, 08 06:39 AM

1 of 2 I am not employed in the computer or electronics industry. Also, my computer knowledge is limited, although it is growing. Thus, I am neutral and impartial in posting my opinion. Upon watching this expose of "Getting Gouged By the Geeks," reading many of the comments and discussing the expose with my wife, I cannot help but think that Marketplace was partial in its production. Although the program was informative and proved my worst fear that if you have limited knowledge of computers (like plumbing, car maintenance, roofing,....) you can be held hostage due to your own ignorance and pay for it, literally, in the end. However, this point does not excuse Erica Johnson and Marketplace from not incorporating into the "test" with more attention to impartiality. After I had read many of the testimonies and filtered out the ones that appear to be genuine and knowledgeable from those that didn't seem to know much, the test parameters were not clearly defined and realistic. One person in the rebuttals went as far to say that the RAM component is one of the most durable (if not the most durable) component in a computer, and by having this component as the premise for the failing item in the test makes the conclusions of the test to be biased. In addition, several adversaries to this production go on to claim that the RAM component is the most unlikely to fail; in fact, 90% of computer failures are not attributed to the RAM. Thus, the test was grossly unfair! Posted by: Sean | Jan 15, 08 10:45 PM

2 of 2 Minimal credit was given to those three technicians (techs) who trouble-shooted the problem correctly. Unfair footage to price gouging was inappropriate considering the circumstance. Yes, the techs could have told the test subjects that the item could have been purchased cheaper online or from a store, but how many consumers will go out and purchase the item and come back to insert it themselves knowing full well that should something go wrong in the process, another service call will be necessary, or will they expect the techs to wait without getting paid while they go out and get the part so that the techs can insert it? As much as I am averse to paying the 100% mark-up, I would rather have the problem corrected as soon as possible than have to go out and buy the product, myself, while paying the tech to wait for my return so that he could complete the work or have him come back again later for another service call and pay for that service call, as well. In the end, this may cost me more money, in addition to the extra inconveniences. The part that troubles me most of this story is that Marketplace edited the productions to discredit the three techs with the "price gouging" so that, at the very least, their actions could serve in the Marketplace's theme of the inadequacies of the computer techncians industry. Shame on you in this action because it not only diminishes their characters, you insult me with your attempts to sway me to accept your view, rather than allowing me to form my own judgement with the information. Regardless to the informative aspect to your program and how it may benefit the consumers, you, Erica Johnson and Marketplace, must employ impartiality, better judgements, test parameters and editing your productions so that you can illustrate a clearer and impartial view for your story. Bias merely serves to discredit the reputations of journalism and the media. I am certain that this is not your intention. Posted by: Sean | Jan 17, 08 10:53 AM

The most one-sided biased POS "reporting" (if you can call it that) I have ever seen. Get your facts straight next time before you rant on about how you got screwed. And to think you expect to get products delivered and installed by hand for the same price as you can buy them online? Whatever you are smoking, it must certainly be illegal. Posted by: Dooglass | Jan 25, 08 08:54 AM

It seems to me that your so called "experts" from Humber College spend a lot of their time experimenting, tinkering around with, and booby trapping computers in an educational setting. As most computer technicians already know, troubleshooting computer problems can be a very challenging experience at times. How often does RAM get blown in computer systems? Bottom line, these college computer "whizzes" have no business skills and would make lousy business people. I have been out of college for college for 30 years and back then there was a course entitled BUSINESS 101. Maybe these computer "experts" should enroll in it if that is still offered at Humber College and since they already know everything there is to know about computers and nothing about business principles. If they started a business whether it be computer repair or any other type business, they would probably fail the very first day. Computer technicians are not perfect, and are going to mis-diagnose problems at sometime. These college computer "geniuses" portray the image that all computer technicians are either incompetent or dis-honest(or both) which simply is not true. Computer repair is just like any other service, a person can fix it themselves or pay someone else to do it. My advice to these college computer "gurus" is to stay in your little class rooms playing around with computers and leave us "COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS" that are out here working hard solving computer problems in the "real world" alone. Posted by: Martin | Jan 30, 08 11:03 AM

The super intelligent techs said "just reinstall windows"...yeah, any reputable true tech knows that is the easy way out. And besides if you charged $60.00 to reinstall windows (or how you like to say reinstall a corrupt system file) you would be out of business faster than you can count to ten. There is no way that little money would pay for the investment of time. Please also use your terms correctly if you are going to be slamming pc techs. What is it you said "ram part?" it is called a memory stick. And there it not a bad "bit" on it. In most cases the issue from a post beep such as that is due to failing internals, micro-capacitors which you can't point out with a finger. (Microtopology much) Yes I agree, these techs that we portrayed were terrible! But the so called genius college techs (especially the older lady) we not quite so ingenious themselves. In this entire whole story to me appeared as the uneducated and unrealistic attempting to slander the untrained. Posted by: wow | Feb 6, 08 09:13 AM

I haven't read all the comments re: this piece, but I certainly agree with the last two comments. The pricing you are throwing around as to what things should cost are absurdly low. While I cannot, nor do I endorse the incompetence of some of the techs in your piece, I am less impressed with your Humber College experts. I have been in the computer repair business for over 15 years, I have known many training organizations and rarely have they had instructors with any real world experience in the industry. Diagnosing a bad stick of RAM at a customers home is unrealistic. Most "Memory Diagnostic" software can take up to an hour to run depending on the amount of memory and the thoroughness of the diagnostic. I didn't see the symptoms these techs encountered, so I can't make judgments on their conclusions. The tech who copied the hard drive being a notable exceptions. He was just incompetent. I work for Future Shop as their "In-Home" tech. My customers are within an easy drive to the store. The cost of repairing computers at the store is a great deal less than doing it in their home. Except for some file configuration issues that are quickly repairable, I always recommend taking their unit to the store for a comprehensive diagnostic and repair. Computers and related technology is complicated and is always changing. The good techs that I know could fill a room with technical books and articles they have read. You want top notch technical service and then complain when we charge livable fees for our service. I have a question. What was the cost to produce this negative piece of propaganda? I bet it was more than $65.00/hour. Posted by: Gordon Wilson | Feb 12, 08 06:18 PM

Incredible. I do house calls 7 days a week 12 hours a day. I offer free pickup and delivery and charge competitive prices. Format and reloads of OS's are common and fail safe fixes to most issues. Of course I charge $45 an hour/around $150 for a format and reload and around $50 for the data backup. What most people don't realize is it actually took about 5-6 hours of my time installing drivers and doing updates...oh and let's not count driving time. So if I actually charged the $45 per hour the repair would of been around 300$, but I don't thanks to the declining prices for PC's and hardware. So it amazes me why people complain and think we should fix these issues for basically nothing. GET A DAMN BOOK AND DO IT YOURSELF. My customers are for the most part happy with my service and customer support. QUIT complaining you lazy non working FAT overweight OBESE AMERICANS. Do you expect your car to be fixed for $150? You expect your house painted for $200? Get for real people and get off our backs. We were the ones smart enough to get the training in this field and its a specialty service just like anything else, and trust me people's PC's and data are very important to them...good luck Posted by: PC Nerd | Feb 23, 08 10:15 PM

Let the buyer beware. The tips at the end of the program are correct. Learn how to run diagnostics, search the internet for advice, use virus and malware protection programs and backup your data. Posted by: Joseph Peni | Feb 26, 08 06:32 PM

As with most things get a second opinion. Especially if you do not like the price, service, or diagnosis. In house visits you may have to cover the "Just to walk in the door" fee, but that is your cost of learning. Do not expect intellectual thought for free from a stranger. FREE estimates are fine for greater than $500 jobs like siding or electrical. That practice is not fit for most onsite personal computer calls. My 2¢ Posted by: Dennis | Mar 19, 08 03:01 PM

Most of the comments posted here are critical of your show. So am I.Having been in computer business since early days of DOS CPM operating system, any decent system will identify the bad RAM at boot up. Some of those repair guys surely did not know very much. However, knowledge cost money, and parts as well. There is no way a tech can carry all possible parts he may need for thousands of models that not always compatible. Two trips are usually needed, and charging less then 2x cost for parts and $60.00 / hour is not financially viable. Consumer should educate themselves a bit more as most of the customers we meet daily are computer illiterate. I challenge you to do a follow up, this time from repair man's point of view as most of them work for minimal wage and if they own the business, ask them how do they pay the rent I bet they are not retiring in Bahamas anytime soon! Posted by: George | Mar 21, 08 03:56 PM

The report made a few good points. Some of the posters made some valid points as well. Its very easy to be critical when you know exactly what the fault is. Fault finding on computers can be difficult and time consuming. Interestingly I noticed there wasnt one female technician. The report wasnt completely fair as far as pricing goes. No tech I know sells parts without a mark up. Also the same wingers wouldnt hesitate to pay a doctor for a consultation that didnt fix their problem. Same for plumbers and mechanics. Posted by: Paul | May 20, 08 08:46 PM

Firstly, I acknowledge that there are many rip-off artists...a sad reality! As an Electronics Engineering Technician with over 25 years of experience, a business owner, and an honest man, I am appalled at what I saw. However, I have to give "some" of the techs a little latitude, because you didn't specify in your report, what symptoms were displayed due to the tampering the Humber people performed. Depending on how the memory was damaged, or which system files were deleted or corrupted, there are many possibilities as to what the tech would see when checking the system. I have worked on systems that were completely dead, pointing to a bad power supply or motherboard, but after testing both, discovered a bad memory stick was the culprit. The point being, if you had said that the "Humber Experts" installed a damaged memory stick resulting in the system starting up fine but failing the post,(power-on-self-test), I would be yelling "check the RAM" at my tv screen.... But bad ram can cause many different problems, so it is hard to judge if the techs are merely inept, or dishonest. That being said, there is NO excuse for the "may go through your pictures" person to still be employed by that company in ANY capacity! Also, in closing, the point about the price the one person wanted for ram is certainly debatable. You did not check to see where that person's company purchases their memory, they may deal with a company that charges more than the price your expert found online, if the computer is not brand new, the technician may have had the memory in stock for some time, and paid much more when it was purchased than the price it currently sells for, and also, there is G.S.T. and sometimes outrageous shipping and handling charges on top of the price quoted online. For the most part though, I agree that most of the so-called technicians appear at least unqualified, and at best dishonest. Posted by: David | Jun 19, 08 03:59 PM

I'm sure that a lot of the stuff that was mentioned as not being seen was simply edited out, but consumers have to step up too. It is still to common that people still see it a cultural faux pas to actually know how this thing works, while you aren't considered a geek if you know that need to check the oil in your car. Posted by: Trent | Aug 9, 08 05:51 PM

This story is on the button when it comes to its facts... almost all the big box stores and other "tech" companies are rip-offs. The staff is unqualified and are told to push sales more than anything else. I worked for 3 major tech companies and found that the stereotype was always true. Even when it comes to amateur in home techs, the qualifications are usually always lacking. I find that most "experts" give themselves this title because they have mucked around with some computers for a few years and taken a class somewhere. I think there should be licenses required and strict standards enforced by a central body. The same as any mechanic or other "certified" trades business. Posted by: George | Aug 18, 08 11:25 AM

I am a legitimate independent IT guy. I have a home business and do all my work in the client's house. I used to really get joy at reading vicious reviews of GeekSquad's service, but this video is actually kinda scaring me. This is a problem that is infecting the entire repair industry, and is making good guys look bad. Posted by: Daniel Francis | Sep 26, 08 08:32 PM