There is a product in the marketplace created for Medical Personnel. It fits on their waistband like a pager. It is a hand-washing dispenser. Hospital personnel should be using this type of product. Then there would be no excuse for not cleaning their hands. Of course that would be an ADDED COST to the already UNDERFUNDED CANADIAN MEDICAL PROFESSION! Sometimes losing a life is more COST-EFFECTIVE for the Canadian Government! Posted by: Brandon | Feb 7, 07 07:01 PM

Thank you for airing the show. Should it be, bring your health card and your hand santizer to the hospital. I think so. Or at least ask for the hand santizer to be by your bedside like the box of tissues or glass of water Posted by: Colleen Dickinson | Feb 7, 07 07:01 PM

I have watched with interest your program on hand washing or lack there of. I am curious,the CBC has done a good job in identifying this issue. However, what have you done in bring this to the attention of the Federal health and Provincial health ministers? Has this been followed up any further. You have identified the potential costs to our health system. However your responsibilty does not stop there. You have the evidence of how serious this is. Therefore, this issue should not be aired only as a news story and end there. There is a social and moral responsibilty that needs to be addressed and the CBC corporation and its investigative reporters on this issue are at the forefront. It is not merely enough to report the issue and then leave it for society on its own to pick up. This has the potential to be as catastrophic an issue to the human population as what global warming is to the earth and humanity. It's time CBC to move forward......this is no longer just news. We need the voice of media to sound these serious alarms and follow through in ensuring a change process is begun. You are talking life and death. Thank you for your attention Posted by: T Williams | Feb 7, 07 07:13 PM

After many years in the medical field,I have seen many aspects of care depreciation. I can be contacted for much more nonbiased information. Posted by: alexander proctor | Feb 7, 07 07:16 PM

After watching your show I was amazed and shocked at such a basic proceedure as washing of hands being ignored. The comment that I would like to make is: a couple of month ago I watchaed a t.v. programme Dragons Den that gave various people a showplace for there marketing ideas hoping for backing from money people. One of the products fetured on the show was a simple hand cleaning devise that dispenced cleaning jel. It was quite small and could be clipped onto a persons belt or pocket. It could be used by doctors and staff without taking up time or needing maintance staff to refill and fix if broken. Please check it out!!!! and think of using this system. It would prove cheaper for the budget as well as avoiding any additional infection to the public. mention save any more Posted by: jennifer Keough | Feb 7, 07 07:17 PM

My mother is a patient at Peel Memorial Hospital in Brampton, Ontario and has been since she was injured in a fall on November 12, 2006. She was admitted to the hospital with a head injury. On November 26, 2006 she tested positive for MRSA, and after various treatments of antibiotics, it has been determined that she will never be rid of this infection. As a result she has been isolated. I am totally disgusted with what your hidden cameras revealed and would like to know what does an individual do in a situation such as my mother's. However does one function in public with MRSA, if hospitals are so worried that they have to place MRSA patients in isolation? Posted by: Margaret McLardy | Feb 7, 07 08:03 PM

Dear Sir: I'm grateful to God that I was never infected with a bad cold, or something close to that, or even worse, as I was picked up by a porter in the hospital to get a chest ex-ray, and was coughed right in my face, full force, and the porter didn't even have the courtesy to excuse himself or report his action to a nurse to check me out...Rick Posted by: Rick James | Feb 7, 07 08:07 PM

My concern about dirty hospitals is the person who takes blood. They travel from room to room wearing the same gloves for the whole trip. They also use the same piece of rubber to wrap around your arm. The gloves come into contact with blood, and then they remove the band with one hand. This is done repeatedly during the day. Is this band EVER changed? So cross contamination is done repeatedly. I have absolutely no qualms about making a hospital worker change gloves or wash thier hands. My doctor has always done this and I really appreciate it. They are there to help you, not kill you. Thanks. Posted by: John Day | Feb 7, 07 08:09 PM

I just watched your episode on "Dirty Doctors" and while I thought is was quite interesting, it was also mistitled. More appropriately, it should have been entitled to include ALL hospital staff - particularly nurses, who in my opinion may be the worst offenders/circulators amongst patients. As for the gentleman who acquired an infection from the surgical instruments, the surgeons don't touch them until they're gloved and suited up. Rather, it would've been the nurses/surgical equipment staff who prepared them who were more likely to blame. I felt doctors were unfairly portrayed as the worst offenders in your piece, and thus it was a bit biased. Perhaps you should've contacted the ONA or the national nurse equivalent regarding their standards. Posted by: Laura | Feb 7, 07 08:13 PM

How simple can an easy, effective health preservation practice be? It's not hightech so, apparently, not valued. I can only imagine that many frontline health care workers will pay for their carelessness with a substantially increased risk to their own lives as well as the lives of their patients. What can health care planners possibly be hoping for in the event of a pandemic influenza if this is typical of their in-house infection control? The cost in unnecessary deaths will be in the tens of thousands. Posted by: Ian MacLaren | Feb 7, 07 08:21 PM

What a timely and informative program. Our daughter contracted MRSA 2 days after she was born. The hospital was quick to assure us that it was "community acquired", but we know better since my parents, my husband and I all tested negative. The only other people in contact with her worked at the hospital. The baby gave us quite a scare but has recovered well and is now 8 months old. Thanks for shedding some light on this important (and dangerous) problem. Posted by: Christianne Labbé-Lowry | Feb 7, 07 09:03 PM

It was interesting and very scary to see your documentary on MRSA. There ia a lot of talking about handwashing, but what the following rule: Let nurses shower,change uniform and shoes to normal clothing before the enter or leave the hospital behore and after work. By the way: It is a normal practise in the pig-industry, already for year. Posted by: I. Fleuren | Feb 7, 07 09:15 PM

The "Dirty Doctors" documentary states that preventable hospital infections cost the healthcare systems one billion dollars annually. Since each provincial physicians' association (eg.OMA in Ontario) would dearly like more money inserted into their respective Province's healthcare budget, it seems that it would be in their best interest to help reduce healthcare costs by supporting the CBC in distributing videos of this program to every hospital administrator in the Province. Posted by: Stephen Solway | Feb 7, 07 09:20 PM

Curiously, you did not report the proportion of Health Care Workers who are infected with MRSA or other transmittable diseases. Posted by: bob hulley | Feb 7, 07 09:53 PM

This is another shameful example of what is wrong in our healthcare system. The infection control person interviewed was obviously more interested in self protection than the injury received by the featured patient. If the public only knew half of what goes on they would be flocking to the lawyers, who ultimately right the wrongs.Shame on us. A health care worker since 1972. Posted by: Name withheld, I | Feb 7, 07 09:53 PM

From June 1st 2004 to July 14th 2004 our family lived a nightmare. Our Dad (age 64) was visiting family in Kamloops when he was admitted to hospital with Congestive Heart Failure. Eight days later he suffered a massive Heart Attack and was flown to St. Pauls in Vancouver. While in Vancouver he was diagnosed with blood poisoning and then contracted a lung infection, I was informed that this was common (not for me). On release from Vancouver he returned back to his home in Comox and shortly after was back in hospital. On the first morning I went to the hospital to my horror I found my Dad slumped over in a wheel chair with his bare feet in a pool of urine. I was told the nursing staff was busy and if I wanted him cleaned up to do it myself. Two days after being admitted, Dad was diagnosed with MRSA a souvenir from the Vancouver hospital and his room was quarantined. I was advised to gown up and glove up and not hug or kiss him, I was also advised to wash my hands on entering his room. If I wanted to know any more information on this infection, I was told to look it up on the internet. Everyone who had visited Dad including myself held a sense of fear, it took so long to get the results that Dad had MRSA we all wondered what if anything we had contracted. There is in my opinion no reason for hospitals to be so very dirty and for all who work there they must exercise proper hand washing. In the year 2007, with all of our modern technology, a simple act could put an end to this and other infections. Dad died July 14th 2004, not of MRSA, of a Heart Attack. My heart is heavy knowing what he went through and of course he is to this day dearly missed. Posted by: Theresa VanDyk | Feb 7, 07 09:55 PM

i think we need to do something NOW not next month, next year not even next week we need to do something about the cleanleness of our doctors TODAY before there are more outbreaks. We need to raise awarness that the doctors need to practice washing etc. or they should lose their jobs!! we need them to be warned so they are aware of what can and will happen if this continues!! we need to act NOW Posted by: cameron | Feb 7, 07 09:59 PM

Just finished watching your program on Hostipatal Infections & MRSA,found it very interesting & shocking to say the least. My mom who is in hospital right now in Stephenville,NL., who has in the last couple of days has contracted MRSA at that hospital and is in isolation there. I Didn't realize the seriousness until watching your show Posted by: Eileen Hackett | Feb 7, 07 10:02 PM

I suggest that we make medical personnel wear a badge or button that says "Ask me if I've washed my hands". Educates the patients and reminds the hospital staff of what they should be doing! Posted by: Bob MacDonald | Feb 7, 07 10:25 PM

What about the squirter before you put solution on hands? What about the faucets before and after to re-contanimate? I take paper first, turn on faucets, take soap, wash hands, dry hands. Use paper towel to turn off faucet and also to open doors to washroom, then drop it if no container is between doors before I eat at a restaurant.Then you have to handle dirty money at cash!!! Dreadful! Couldn't washing hands 25 times a day also pose a skin problem eventually??? How do you win??? But I'm for washing hands as I do at least. And I say at social functions I just washed my hands to eat as the proverbial handshake is offered! Where have those hands been? I also try to follow someone in where doors have to be handled with a quick Thank you!Use the sharp end of my keys to press elevator buttons! Another thing that bothers me is the handshake and then you put your gloves on time after time and you can't wash leather gloves so I use that sanitizing liquid and pull my gloves on while still wet in hopes of sanitizing my gloves! It's just using common sense without becoming enslaved where all this alarm seems to be leading us...This is my very first CBC Net Email. You said they are read and perhaps some suggestions could be helpful. Marketplace is worthwhile. Keep up the good work! Posted by: T.H. Quinn | Feb 7, 07 10:41 PM

This problem is the result of years of antibiotic use and the "forgetting" of the basics of hygiene. We have to rethink and re-educate and remind repeatedly. Posted by: M Crosbie | Feb 7, 07 10:47 PM

Nurses and most doctors are literally in constant contact through the day with patients. That would mean that a large number would be washing their hands thirty to forty times daily. If they then had any time left, then perhaps they could complete some of their duties which have steadily expanded with declining resources and an aging population. That is if their skin hasn't broken down with the constant scrubbing and washing. Enforcing hand sanitization in its present form is not practical, it's time to look for another solution. Posted by: Hand Washer | Feb 7, 07 10:53 PM

I thought the show was fantastic. It showed how all the key players are responsible. I know that 'gel nails' are in vogue, and staff wear jewellery without any concer; I would have been interested to see if either affected the findings. Posted by: jackie | Feb 7, 07 10:54 PM

I believe that the hand washing problem is beyond proceedures. Consider the time involved and the extreme loads placed on our hospital staff. In Ontario and BC, the staff is crushed by the administration and the internal apathy to hire new staff. Most staff must work two 12 hr days and 2 twelve hour nights back to back. The squeeze on the staff barely permits them to oversee the patients that are assigned to them. Moreover, consider the equipment and how long it would take to clean as in the case of a blood pressure cuff or a contaminated strecher, let alone an entire room. Medical staff are not entirely at fault, often times it is governmental cutbacks and administrative myopia that stiffle best practices. Posted by: Gilles | Feb 7, 07 10:56 PM

Thank you for exposing how infections are spread in hospitals. Please list, on the Marketplace website, the steps you gave at the end of the program on what a patient can do to take precautions while in a hospital. Posted by: L Alexander | Feb 7, 07 11:05 PM

I just watched your program about hospital acquired infections; as a student nurse, I now have more appreciation for following infection control procedures. My clinical site does have dispensers; however, when I tried to retrieve the gel from one that was placed on the wall before leaving the lockerroom/bathroom was empty. It is a excellent location, but what is the use when it is empty? I have decided on my next shift that I will get the bag of gel from the nursing supply room, go downstairs and replace it myself! Why sit around waiting for custodial or supply staff ("its not my job" is the common response)to their job. Yes it may not be our job, but it takes two mins. to do. All staff members in a healthcare facilty should be responsible for participating in infection control procedures, not just one set of staff. Frankly, we are lazy, sloppy due to the prevelant attitude in our society that "somebody else is there to clean up my mess"! Thank you for listening to my comments and for airing the program Posted by: Brenda Cousins | Feb 7, 07 11:14 PM

It is funny what Dr. Gardum said at 22:42-22:47 in the Dirty Doctors clip. He said he puts the alcohol gel inside the room now. He puts some on and washes his hands then shakes the patient's hands! Shakes the patient's hands!?!? is he crazy? Did he make the patient wash her hands first? Why not just NOT touch the patient, period! By touching the patient's hand, he is infecting his hand again after washing it. Hence, it is still dirty! I think this needs to be voiced back to the Dr.! What do you think? I want to hear what marketplace has to report after speaking to Dr. Gardum again on this interesting finding. Thanks Posted by: John | Feb 7, 07 11:18 PM

It is funny what Dr. Gardum said at 22:42-22:47 in the Dirty Doctors clip. He said he puts the alcohol gel inside the room now. He puts some on and washes his hands then shakes the patient's hands! Marketplace repeats what he said at the end after touching the unwashed patient after he has washed his hands. I laughed when I heard that! Shakes the patient's hands!?!? is he crazy? Did he make the patient wash her hands first? Why not just NOT touch the patient, period! By touching the patient's hand, he is infecting his hand again after washing it. Hence, it is still dirty! I think this needs to be voiced back to the Dr.! What do you think? I want to hear what marketplace has to report after speaking to Dr. Gardum again on this interesting finding. Thanks Posted by: John | Feb 7, 07 11:23 PM

I watched with interest your segment on "Dirty Doctors". Four years ago my sister was a patient in Saskatoon City Hospital; during her stay she contracated MRSA and quickly isolated from other patients. In order to visit her we had to "gown up", (hospital gowns, rubber gloves) and instructed to use the antiseptic soap when we left her room. We saw the health professionals do the same whenever they entered her room. But, I don't know how she got the infection. Posted by: Evelyn Schellenberg | Feb 7, 07 11:23 PM

Health care workers frequently wear protective gloves. 1. Are they a protection for the worker only? 2. What is their role in the spread of infections? 3. Should workers wash their hands before putting on these gloves? What is the extent of infection spread via clinics and physician offices? Excellent show. E. Daisy Anderson Posted by: E. Daisy Anderson | Feb 7, 07 11:26 PM

For many years I have been appalled at the poor handwashing practices I have seen among hospital staff. During a recent hospitalization I noticed that the worst offenders were those who wore gloves to protect themselves from "bugs" the patient may have brought in. The gloves were never changed nor were they washed between patients. I got out of the hospital ASAP! Posted by: Alison Smith | Feb 7, 07 11:53 PM

As a RN for over 30 years, with a post-grad in the operating room, I am not only disgusted but appalled by these 'Dirty Doctors'AND nurses who are not practising proper infection control - especially by doing something as BASIC as handwashing! This is pure care-less-ness, in it's fullest sense. Dr. Louis Pasteur, who proposed the 'germ theory' upon which modern infection control was originally founded when his colleages didn't wash between post-partum patients who were dying of infection, must be revolving in his grave :-( Posted by: Liz Stonard | Feb 8, 07 12:09 AM

I went into the hospital (S.Ontario) on Jan.10th,2007 for day surgery to have a knee arthroscopy (scope, debridement and repair)of both kneess under general anesthetic. The first evening, I noticed that one of the incisions on my right knee was draining a clear liquid but i felt very little pain and was able to walk ok. With a nursing background myself, I didn't really worry about it since the drainage was clear....but by the 16th the pain had escalated and the knee was hot and red. I was immediately started on IV antibiotics. My Dr. took me back into surgery twice over the next week, to flush it. After being in hospital for a whole week, I was sent home with IV antibiotics administered thru a PIC-line and a small portible IV pump. From day one my biggest complaint was the terrible pain which just never seems to ease up. After a day and a half the infection seemed to get worse with more pain, swelling and redness. After my second admission, three more trips to OR under general anaesetic to flush out the knee joint-plus a treatment of three different IV antibiotics, my Dr. switched me to a two week treatment of oral antibiotics. I was discharged the next morning. I'm still in a lot of pain.The knee is slightly red and often becomes hot, plus i've been running a low grade fever. I am pretty well confined to my bed except when i hobble aroound with the walker. I can't completely straighten the knee and the muscles are very week but i have been given exercises to do. I hate the thought of another hospital admission but what can i do? This program on marketplace was very timely for me and has made me much more aware of how i may have gotten my infection....but what do i do now??? Posted by: sharon frost | Feb 8, 07 01:24 AM

Excellent show, but scary to us health-care consumers. In 1991, when I had an emergency C-Section giving birth to my son, I was a "victim" of a hospital infection. Since then, I am afflicted with chronic cellulitis, which shows itself on my abdomen. It's a serious infection, for which I have to go on IV antibiotics. It appears intermittently, every few years, without warning. I just have to "live with it". I do, however, have a healthy son! Shame on docs and nurses who don't follow proper protocol! Posted by: Natalie from Saskatchewan | Feb 8, 07 06:17 AM

Hello, I've just watched the episode of dirty dr's. It was pretty good, however, I must put my 2 cents in, I work in a health care facility and am fully aware of proper precautions for mrsa and vre. Your show neglected to mention the fact that when patients with this are discharged they shop at the grocery stores and touch vegetables and fruit, not to mention the shopping cart handles, etc. It is not only thru hospital settings it is spread so I cannot see how we could ever get a "handle" on this as the good dr. said they did in The Netherlands and Sweden Posted by: Mrs. Stockley | Feb 8, 07 07:26 AM

My son had a bone marrow transplant at a well known hospital. These kids have no immunity (zero white cell count). Parents were so fed up with complaining about poor handwashing, we would watch staff and immediately disinfect everything they touched after they left the room. I saw a respiratory therapist put on a dirty gown (which may have been used to mop puke off the floor), wash his hands (his gown would have been contaminated anyway by now), and wash his hands. He then contaminated his hands by touching handles. Worse part, he taught his student to do the same thing. Staff took my child, who had zero white count, no mask, in a public elevator. After raising a stink, the infectious diseases person there told me that there was basically no risk to my child, had a person in that elevator with flu sneezed on him. It was so horrible, we just wanted to get him out of there to keep him safe. Posted by: mortified | Feb 8, 07 07:56 AM

Without a doubt good hand washing technique saves lives. It is also important to point out that stethascopes are covered in germs and practitioners don't clean them either. Physician ties are another source of germs. Male Dr's straighten their tie and then examine their patient. Ties don't get washed every day! There have been studies on ties in the USA. The ties carried infection causing organisms. Yuck! Posted by: Janice Thompson | Feb 8, 07 08:22 AM

I thank you so much for broaching this important issue. I would like to comment, though, that alcohol gels do not kill C-difficile and should not replace soap and warm water and do not constitute 'washing one's hands'. Hand sanitizers do not completely replace the benefits of physically removing bacteria and viruses from hands and should be used only in lieu of warm, running water and soap. Hand gels do not replace proper hygiene and to refer to the use of these gels as 'washing one's hands' is mis-educating the public. I do very much appreciate the efforts of all those, including this doctor, sounding an alarm and calling for change in our approach to public safety. Dawn, Montreal Posted by: Dawn | Feb 8, 07 09:06 AM

I can still remember the horror I felt nearly fify years ago when I gave birth to my first child a nurse came into my shared room, gave personal care to the mother in the next bed, and then came and picked up my precious daughter, I was so young, I didn't dare speak out but I was sure the baby would contract some dread disease from this careless act. I had been so impressed by the teaching in the prenatal class about the importance of cleanliness. That memory is still so vivid after all those years. Posted by: Jackie Stoddart | Feb 8, 07 10:01 AM

The handwashing problem is a red herring. There are far worse things going on in hospitals. We are seeing a current trend of promoting the handwashing problem as the "worst" thing happening in the patient safety arena. Posted by: angela moore | Feb 8, 07 10:34 AM

What an excellent show! I'am just as disgusted to see what happens in our hospital system and I cant believe some of the things I saw last night. What the system wont show and tell you. Im definetely gonna ask my doctor to wash his hands after this. Thank you CBC!! Posted by: Marilyn | Feb 8, 07 11:38 AM

I just finished watching your story about dirty doctors and the infection control problem. I too, recieved an infection after having a C-Section. I underwent the surgery and was giving antibiotics to prevent infection. However, I still contacted c.difficle. Even though I complained of feeling ill the nurses and my OB ignored my complaints and the c.difficle was not diagnosed until a week after having the baby by my Family doctor. While I was in hospital for the 3 days I never saw a nurse, student or doctor wash their hands. My garbage was overflowing the entire time and was only emptied twice - the day I was admitted and the day I was discharged, my sheets were never changed and I was never given any clean towels. I had a son in NICU for 10 days and was going to visit him daily. There were babies fighting for their lives in there and here I was going in and out with c.difficle. I felt sick that I could have passed this deadly infection to a premature baby. I guess it's a good thing I'm an avid hand washer because no one else got sick. Now when any of my loved ones go into hospital I will know what to look for and what to demand. It's just laziness on the hospital staff and a lack of training where the housekeeping staff are involved. If someone doesn't wash their hands at home why are they going to do it at work? Something that only takes a few minutes can save a lot of people a lot of pain and suffering. Thank you for doing this story please keep up with it. Contamination in hospitals is happening everywhere. Sharon-Red Deer, Alberta Posted by: Sharon | Feb 8, 07 12:08 PM

I am an Infection Control Practitioner. There was nothing new in this video to those of us in Healthcare Facilities across this continent that we have not encountered. Our education programs to all staff and people carrying on business within the facility emphasize the proper procedure for handwashing as well as the where and when. Alcohol hand sanitation, which has become very popular post-SARS, is an adjuct to good hand care. As one person on the comment page pointed out, C-difficile is a spore and is not affected by alcohol hand sanitation but requires a good handwash to be washed down the drain. Your video did not exhonorate the importance of the cleanliness of the environment. This is an area which must be addressed by Healthcare management. In many cases, this has been the area of cost cutting, introduction of heavy disinfectants, and poor education on how the job is properly done. No particular entity is to blame for this problem, each of the areas of a healthcare facility are dependent on the other to have done their job right the first time - every time. Infection Control Practitioners have a comprehensive job which involves every aspect of a healthcare facility from the planning and building/renovation of a facility to overseeing the practices and education of all members of the staff and volunteers. For further information on Infection Control see CHICA Canada's web site Chica.org Posted by: Peggy Perkins | Feb 8, 07 12:15 PM

Your show on handwashing was scary and reaffirming. I just spent a week in hospital but the infection started in a satellite dialysis unit. I have staph epidermis and candida parapsilosis. These infections, caused by unclean hands, have latched onto my plastic catheter which is inserted into my neck and runs near my heart. This is very serious business! Here's, my quandary! How do I change standard operating procedures and request sterile procedures be performed by healthcare workers when dealing with me? (sterile procedures meaning cap, mask, gown, gloves when beginning and ending dialysis, changing dressings; masks and gloves when preparing syringes). These changes will have to be declared by all healthcare administrators and health ministers. Patients can only be so aggressive before they are called negative, unco-operative with a bad attitude. Patients are in a precarious position. We don't want to make enemies of the ones who supposed to keep us healthy and alive. I'd like to close with a question...If the people in the healthcare system are not successfully avoiding infections by handwashing. what is going to happen if there is a flu pandemic or more superbugs? Posted by: Eleanor Lackey | Feb 8, 07 12:37 PM

Your show on handwashing was scary and reaffirming. I just spent a week in hospital but the infection started in a satellite dialysis unit. I have staph epidermis and candida parapsilosis. These infections, caused by unclean hands, have latched onto my plastic catheter which is inserted into my neck and runs near my heart. This is very serious business! Here's, my quandary! How do I change standard operating procedures and request sterile procedures be performed by healthcare workers when dealing with me? (sterile procedures meaning cap, mask, gown, gloves when beginning and ending dialysis, changing dressings; masks and gloves when preparing syringes). These changes will have to be declared by all healthcare administrators and health ministers. Patients can only be so aggressive before they are called negative, unco-operative with a bad attitude. Patients are in a precarious position. We don't want to make enemies of the ones who supposed to keep us healthy and alive. I'd like to close with a question...If the people in the healthcare system are not successfully avoiding infections by handwashing. what is going to happen if there is a flu pandemic or more superbugs? Posted by: Eleanor Lackey | Feb 8, 07 12:47 PM

We, infection control specialists/public health professionals have always been aware of this situation. The challenge we must ask is "why" are we so ineffectual to promote and enforce the basics and advanced methodology to this self-proclaimed elite disciplines, MDs? I believe that physicians, much like other professionals, much report and conform (regulated) to infection control and prevention techniques. Lyle Wiebe, CRSP, CPHI(C), CIC Posted by: lyle wiebe | Feb 8, 07 01:04 PM

Add me to the list of concerned citizens. I was admitted to a hospital 2 years ago with C-difficile and immediately put in an 'isolation' room. To my astonishment the emergency room Doctor came in, shook my hand and the student Dr with him followed suit! I was too speechless to say anything. Fortunately I had just thoroughly washed my hands before they came in. But what really shocked me on arrival at the same hospital more recently was a solid sheet of bird-droppings decorating the entrance to emergency. Ambulance staff were cheerfully walking through this muck while rolling stretchers in and out of emergency. Could it be that nobody there has ever heard of the dreaded bird 'flu? If any of those birds were infected with this virus it would be disastrous!! Many of us can remember when hospitals had a distinctive antiseptic smell, Doctors and nurses were dressed in spotless whites including shoes which were changed into AFTER arriving at the hospital. All hospital linen was laundered (and ironed!)and the (usually formidable) Matron was there to see that staff observed the rules of cleanliness and professional behavior, and to see that no person entered the hospital outside visiting hours: 2-4 and 7-8 pm. Today, the hospital environment is a free-for-all. Even though I have always been well treated by medical staff, I have observed the general lack of concern for cleanliness, heard them swearing, being rude and nasty to patients, etc. I could go on and on. The medical profession and hospital procedures need a major overhaul. Let us hope your informative program on some of the serious problems in health-care is a beginning. Posted by: Anna Burridge | Feb 8, 07 01:16 PM

Thank you for airing a great show! it has given me information that i can use to my benefit the next time i visit a hospital or doctors offce. Posted by: Jane | Feb 8, 07 01:20 PM

A very good program. Thank you. Posted by: J. Douglas | Feb 8, 07 01:29 PM

I appreciate your efforts to expose this very serious health issue. As a frequent, immunosuppresed visitor to a hospital out-patient clinic, I certainly concur with the findings of your investigators. It's interesting to note that the last time I personally observed a doctor washing his hands was in 1994. By the way, many thanks to the clinic nurse who sneezed on me during a clinic visit in December and never bothered to cover her germs or wash her hands afterwards - I have been suffering with pneumonia ever since! Is it really too much to expect 'professional' health care providers to use hand gels and wash their hands? Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 8, 07 05:12 PM

Wow... That was agood show and very timely for myself. I am a nurse working on her degree and i am exploring in my own unit infection control getting a 3D perspective from the patients,nurses and cleaners. It was interesting that it was mentioned that it is hard to verbalize the importance of handwashing. My goal is to increase awareness through communication. Signage isn't enough. Good show and very affective in showing the public that they have to protect themselves. Posted by: Gill | Feb 8, 07 05:41 PM

Dear Marketplace, I am concerned about the handwashing issue, however, to expect staff to constantly put the alcohol based cleaner, on their hands, before & after each patient ,is absurd. I work in the healthcare field & believe me, if you were to do this yourself ,all day long, you would have severly dry & open sores on your hands. Our health system is quickly going down the drain & if the Public does not demand more from this or any other Gov. , we will be like the U.S. in no time. Perhaps you should tap into the kept quite skem the Gov. plans on doing with the LHINS. Have you heard of this? Well they will tell you it is to max. our health care & cut down wait times. It will be no surprise when they cut housekeeping jobs in these infected hospitals & institutions. Or when they try to undercut wages & pay $10.00 an hour for people to put their health on the line to clean up things like blood, vomit , phlyem etc.. Believe me it is not the Doctors who have these jobs. The real people are the front line workers in the understaffed, & underpaid jobs. Dirty Doctor`s?!! Who are you kidding. They are not the ones who are resposible for spreading germs. It is the Public themselves who bring these germs thru the door of the hospital. We will not win this fight unless we support the cleaning staff, dietary staff, & all the people behind the scenes. It is time people put Dr.`s in their rightful place. They ARE NOT GOD`S!! They are hired people to do their job the same as everyone else in this country or world. Wake up & do a proper investigation on disease & infection , you only touched the tip of the iceberg. Ask anyone who works in healthcare ,other than a R.N. or a Doctor. They could give you some insite, that you local or prov. Gov`t will not do until after the fall election; when we are even more worse off. WE NEED TO DEMAND MORE FROM THE GOV`T. Thankyou. Posted by: Vivian Rintoul | Feb 8, 07 08:23 PM

Although I think your program raises important issues regarding nosocomial infections and infection control in hospitals, I found it to be overly biased and somewhat inaccurate. I found that it ascribed blame solely to physicians and nurses when the problem is really much more systemic. Health-care infrastructure could be much improved (more single rooms, more cleaning staff, more dedicated equipment), and the shortage of health-care professionals in Canada puts a huge strain on the system - requiring nurses and physicians to look after too many patients for it to be safe (with the lack of handwashing reflecting this to some extent). I would also like to comment that post-operative infections (whether they follow knee surgery or epidural catheter placement) are most commonly caused by microorganisms that normally live on the patient's skin, not those carried on the hands of the healthcare worker. Although I am sorry the patients in the program have suffered with such severe infections, without specific details it is impossible to know exactly where and how they acquired these infections - to assume they were acquired from the hands of their healthcare professionals may be unfair. Posted by: Wendy | Feb 8, 07 08:28 PM

Firstly, I like to say that although the program was very informative, there are many contributing factors to the spread of infection that were not identified. For example, a hospital by nature has a high concentration of the sick and infection. The hospital doesn't grow the bugs, the bugs grow in the hospital. And where did they come from? I was almost left speechless when reading all the interesting comments. It is premature to simply think that health care workers are mostly to blame for the spread of infection in the hospitals. Not only healthcare workers, but also the thousands of visitors that walk through the doors of the hospital have a responsibility too. I have seen on numerous occassions (far too many to count) visitors not adhering to infection control procedures despite specific instructions provided by nursing staff. We should all try to come up with solutions instead of trying to put the blame on anyone group. Although I feel very bad for those featured patients, I would like to ask this....has anyone once thought about what hospital workers are exposed to on a daily basis, 24/7? This is a big problem, requiring a big solution that includes big: money, education and awareness. Posted by: speechless | Feb 9, 07 02:25 AM

Thanks for a well-aimed program. As doctors, we all need reminding until handwashing every time before we touch a patient truly becomes second nature. I hope the program remains available on-line for all our staff to watch - I shall certainly recommend it. Posted by: peter wing | Feb 9, 07 02:27 AM

Watching last nights show on how some of our health care professional forget to wash their hands made me think...Maybe if hospitals enforced that every staff member must wash before and after seeing a person or procedure. Have uncover people watching and if caught not washing hands or following procedures suspension without pay could be enforced. I bet any money, hospital staff would remember all the time to keep clean! Posted by: Gail | Feb 9, 07 09:26 AM

I was disappointed with your show and find it lacking in terms of award winning journalism. How about the coughing sound effects you added in when showing the back of the woman walking down the hall with MSRA? Come on, you're supposed to be unbiased. Is there a problem? Yes. But you imply a simple solution. People want to hear it's not their fault and they want simple answers. Stop pandering. Maybe another reason we have such "super bugs" is because people insist on taking antibiotics for every little cough or cold. The problem is bigger than that and you should know better. Posted by: Susan | Feb 9, 07 11:57 AM

I am a Registered Nurse and work with Doctor Gardam and his infection prevention and control team at the hospital and I cannot tell you how hard hospital staff work to limit the spread of so many diseases... and yes, some of these diseases are common and in our community (the reason why we test for it on admission to hospital). We not only practice what we preach, but try to educate visitors when they come in--and many times we get criticism and huffing and puffing because we have asked then to wash their hands and to comply with the strict protocols. You would be surprised to know that some visitors think they are immune to infectious diseases or that they can't spread infectious diseases onto others and therefore refuse to comply. It seems far too easy to criticize healthcare professionals, especially nurses. What are you excuses for the spread of infections diseases globally? Perhaps it is healthcare professionals' fault too! Posted by: Melanie | Feb 9, 07 12:56 PM

This is in response to the comment regarding blood takers in hospitals. They are called phlebotomists and in many cases are well trained staff members. That rubber band (tourniquet) is disposable and should be disposed of after every patient. And gloves worn by phlebotomists are removed after every patient. If phlebotomists are not obeying these basic standards then they need to made aware of them. Programs like this one helps all who work in the health care system not just physicians to be aware of contamination and the spreading of disease. It is unfair to make blanket statements regarding the practices of (blood takers) because the majority of them do follow proper procedures. Posted by: D. Novak | Feb 9, 07 03:03 PM

My mother went for a cataract surgery a few years ago in Toronto, the same night after the surgery, she felt a lot of pain in her eye, she was immediately sent back to the hospital, and subsequently transferred to another hospital to be taken care of by a different doctor, another surgery was needed to clear out the infection from the initial surgery;unfortunately for all of us, she has since lost one eye due to the incidence. We did try to get the infection control team and the College of Physician to investigate the case, but all results turn to the favour of the initial doctor. We pray that this CBC article can lead to big changes in the health care community, so that the general public can be protected from such disaster. Posted by: carol chan | Feb 9, 07 03:39 PM

What I found most interesting is how outraged so many people are in these comments. Saying "if only the public" knew seems entirely laughable. What really needs to happen in health care is that ANYONE who comes in to a hospital needs to see a copy of their bill and what it actually costs. Especially when someone decides to use the Emergency room because they have the sniffles. If you want to talk about the degradation of health care, look no further than the "outraged public" you speak of that abuses the system on a daily basis. The foolishness that the Canadian public displays and the propensity to point fingers at the government that THEY elected and the medical personnel that provide them with care is the real outrage here. By the way, an RN in Edmonton makes roughly $50,000 a year. Mats Sundin has to play 8 MINUTES of ice time to make that same amount. Where is the "outraged public" on that one? Posted by: Rupert | Feb 9, 07 03:49 PM

In response to a comment made by one of the other viewers, Laura, I am offended to hear that someone who does not appear to work in healthcare, criticizing nurses as being prime offenders of poor hygiene while defending doctors. As a medical surgical nurse who has been in the profession for 4 years, I have seen nurses who have not always been diligent with hygiene practice, but more often than not, it is doctors who I have seen over and over again, entering patient rooms on rounds, touching patients including open wounds without gloves, and then moving on to the next patient, repeating these actions. This is not the case with all doctors, but a good number of them, and yes, I have seen many more guilty doctors than nurses. It is a shame that people are so undereducated about health care practices and that the average lay person believes they know the ins and outs of a hospital, just because they or a family member may have stayed or visited one for a given period of time. Please get your facts straight and speak to people in the profession, do not just make judgments, because this ignorance only supports the fact that despite the accessibilty of knowledge made available to people via the interet and the general media, the inaccuracy of information by a vast majority of lay people stil abounds Posted by: Edith | Feb 9, 07 04:14 PM

Sorry I missed this show. Mis-read the time. But wanted to say, this "stuff" is no joke. I contracted an infection from a local hospital after a routine surgery. Traveled to a clinic for 93 days without a break for infusion of Vanco. After 2 years, I am still having problems. It is more than healthcare workers not washing their hands. Posted by: Bill De Jong - Seattle | Feb 9, 07 05:54 PM

just saw the clip, and was sad to find that the RN'S were taking the blame alone for these infections. As a health care worker, I can't tell you how many times family members have used patient bathrooms! or, they dont wash their hands when entering or exiting a room or family members lying on beds, or patients themselves for that matter not washing their hands. Let's put the blame in the proper place. WE are all at fault. Healthcare workers, visitior/family members, and yes patients themselves. We are not the police, and we cant possibly catch all the comings and goings of people in and out of peoples rooms. All we can do, is fix the problem within, and hopefully, the public will do their part, and wash YOUR hands also. We are at risk on a daily basis from anything from verbal/physical abuse, to any god giving disease that enters our hospitals. So don't be too quick to crucify our RN's/Doctors, when we are ALL to blame. Posted by: charlene | Feb 9, 07 07:37 PM

I saw the program on CBC from my home in Oswego, New York. I was fascinated from the standpoint of the problem of enforcing norms, in this case norms of sanitary practices. When people are rushed and stressed, they tend to take the path of least resistance. If doctors and other health workers are under pressure to perform well, then they are likely to focus on those aspects of their professional performance which are used to evaluate their performance for the purposes of pay raises, etc. So to get compliance with the sanitary practices norms, some measure of this compliance should be made part of the criteria for professional evaluation. A camera by each sink could indicate who is using the sink and how often, and this data could be included in the worker's evaluation for promotion, etc. Also, patients may be able to assist by requesting that their doctors wash their hands before touching them. Ideally, patients should be able to choose their doctors using public information on their compliance with sanitary practices. Posted by: Jean Chambers | Feb 9, 07 07:37 PM

I'm amazed at the dimwits who have commented on this issue. Some people think that basic hygiene is too simplistic a solution, and others actually think that it's asking too much of medical personnel to wash their hands frequently! Hospital-acquired infections have ruined lives, but I guess to some people saving doctors' hands from becoming raw from handwashing is more important then patients' lives. How ridiculous! Posted by: Sheila Tofflemire | Feb 9, 07 07:55 PM

hi my name is kieran and i watched your show on how simple surgerys have gone wrong.i am one of many who have experienced just that. i went for knee surgery at north york general hospital in toronto to a knee specialist and came out with a post op knee infection. the infection attacked my knee joint, and was soon spreading into my stomach. this infection took the doctors 3 weeks to figure out what was wrong, in the mean time i was becoming very ill. once the docotors figured out how to treat the infection, the antibiotics they had to use were so strong that they had to injected directly into the main artery 3 inches away from my heart. i was placed on a machine that pumped me full of antibiotics 24 hours a day for 3 months. i had to change the bag of antibiotics once a day. i was just wondering if marketplace can write back informing me of anything i can do to fight the system. thanks Kieran Gillooly Posted by: kieran gillooly | Feb 9, 07 09:38 PM

My wife is a registered nurse and has frequently commented on how the infection control practices and general cleaniness in many hospitals have declined since her days as a student nurse 40 years ago. Regarding the Marketplace program on the lack of hand washing we recently visited a family member who had just undergone major abdominal surgery . There was not one single hand washing dispenser on that particular ward that was operational. When brought to the attention of the staff we were referred to a hand washer in the main corridor by an elevator. It too was empty. The patient's incision became infected and necessitated several more days before he could be discharged. He is still getting home nursing visits to change the dressings on the infected incison several weeks later. One cannot of course say that this infection was caused by lack of hospital staff hygiene protocol but you have to wonder after seeing the lack of hand washing facilities. Posted by: Bill Paulsen | Feb 10, 07 02:29 PM

Regarding infection control - one thing I would like to point out is that those empty containers at the hospital that are supposed to be used for hand cleaners are likely a result of some healthcare services being delegated to privatization. It is my understanding that since the BC government privatized hospital housekeeping services, the nurses are no longer allowed to tell the housekeeping staff if such a container is empty,(were any supplies available on the nursing unit for the staff to replace the empty ones?) they have to report it to the housekeeping supervisor, who will then come to the unit and decide if and when the problem will be addressed, sometimes it can take a week or more. When I worked at Hamilton General Hospital nearly 40 years ago the nurses were meticulous about handwashing and it was our duty to remind the Dr.s to wash their hands if they neglected to do so. Nurses used to make rounds with the Dr. when she or he came to see their pts. but that doesn't always happen now, the protocol and the job roles have changed somewhat, but I believe that medical staff being sloppy with infection control may be a consequence of these changes. Infection control needs to be addressed on many levels, but could be incorporated at staff orientation and as an annual review of procedure.This would require the attendance of all personnel in hospital, including doctors, students, nurses, housekeeping, dietary staff, anyone who has any contact directly or indirectly with patients or any equipment to which they may be exposed.The prevention of infections is much much cheaper than dealing with the cure. Thank you for bringing awareness to a problem that is costing Canadians money and, worse, personal tragedy. Posted by: Sandra Frederiks | Feb 10, 07 03:38 PM

In responce to Jane. If you feel more comfortable to move to Africa,please do so. Nurses and Doctor's in Holland,Finland,Sweden,Germany etc use everyday 5-6 days a week antibaterial gel and do not complain. If you the skin on you hands is more important to you than the health of patients ,than you should choose another occupation!!! Posted by: Michael | Feb 10, 07 07:36 PM

Viewers beware: investigative journalism is like bad research. We think we know all there is to know about hospital infections by watching a few short clips. Yes, it's still a serious and important issue. But, out of fairness, we must ask, "How may hidden vidio clips were taken in total to get a few juicy, sensational clips?" A few negligent staff can ruin it for everyone. Also, ask yourself, "How effective are the sanitizing jells and how must they be used to be effective?" They don't work like magic. Some disinfectants take up to 10 minutes to kill pathogens. A good question to ask would be, "How long does it take for this jell to kill this pathogen?" A lot of the time, we are just fooling ourselves with these products. Posted by: Martin Matyas | Feb 10, 07 08:01 PM

I am so glad this was aired. My husband contacted hepatitis and complete kidney failure after a tiny incision in his shoulder. He almost died and was in the hospital and on dialysis for a month. It was a miracle his kidneys opened up. I noticed people not washing there hands etc. He was in a room with 4 people too. What a waste of tax payers money. Of course there is lots more to the story but I am glad someone will believe me now. The doctors stick together and the patients seem to have no rights. My lawyer told me I couldn't fight them. suzanne vancouver island Posted by: Suzanne Chickite | Feb 10, 07 08:40 PM

One more observation. I use public transportation in Toronto and very often see nurses going to/from the job in the same special medical clothes they use inside the clinics. To my mind it is absolutely unacceptable, but can be easily controlled. Do not allow the staff to go in or out clinics in their special clothes. Why it is still out of control? They spread the infection among the patients and people outside. Posted by: M. Kazarnovsky | Feb 10, 07 08:56 PM

I agree with the comments on nosocomial infection made by CBC news. I've never seen myself docs or nurses washing their hands before examining a patient. Besides, hand sanitizer is not enough because it just moves bacteria around and not eliminate them as with Chlostridium Difficile spores. They would really need to use the recently developed liquid soap for hospital personnel with hydrogen peroxyde in it. Posted by: Ola | Feb 10, 07 10:47 PM

In response to thoughts posted by: John Day | Feb 7, 07 08:09 PM, I have experience in working in a medical microbiology department and am totally compliant inside the lab and outside of the lab working with patients. Part of my job is to obtain blood samples from patients. I assure you that my work place has a strict policy regarding your concerns and it is voiced continually. I put on clean gloves in full view of the patient before touching anything, removing them after I am finished with the patient and discarding them appropriately. I prefer to wash my hands immediately but if a sink is not available I will use the hand sanitizer. Yes, I also change bands. When with the patient, I cleanse the site where I am to draw blood correctly. My total focus is on each patient and I will not take shortcuts. More than once I have had to re-cleanse a site because a nurse, standing on the other side of the bed, has not waited for me to continue the blood draw procedure. The nurse pulled up a patient's blanket to cover them and has touched/covered the cleansed area where I was just, in the blink of an eye, about to insert a needle. So I start over. I care and will keep caring and know that I am not alone. Just remember that people always report the worst and the best never seems to take a spotlight. I'm not saying that action should not be taken, because it should. I just wanted to share my perspective in hopes that some good will stand out just a little bit. Posted by: Louise | Feb 11, 07 10:24 AM

I am the person who was featured in this show. For anyone who has any doubts that the doctors are to blame, I want to say that thanks to one of them I am now paralized. I nearly died. I literally had a few hours to live. CAN YOU understand that? I spent 9 months in the hospital and trust me, I saw what goes on very well. If any nurses or doctors here complaining about washing hands 12 times a day, WEAR GLOVES! The show showed only fraction of what went on with me, never mind people that were in the hospital with me and got infected with a MRSA and VRE. I spent a year having antibiotics pumped through central line in my chest. I had two huge laminectomies and they fused my spine in the end because infection caused osteomylitis. How do you think infection got into my spine? The doctor was doing epidurals for two other people at the same time. It is very easy to contaminate hands. The abcess leaked pus down my spinal cord inside and literally burned all nerve endings along spine and in Quad Equina region. My bladder does not work nor does my bowels. I have seen hundred times doctors coming to do rounds without washing hands and moving between patients. This is what they teach their residents. I am greatful for those who saved my life and followed the rules about washing hands. But what kind of life is it? I am paralized and in awful pain 24/7. My body is screwed up comletely. The worst part is still not being able to be with my baby. Think about it before you start blaming the victims. Posted by: Milana Law | Feb 11, 07 05:31 PM