Interview: Lt. Col. Rod McDonald

The newly appointed Deputy Director of Cadets at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario at the time Joe Grozelle disappeared in October 2003, McDonald is now the Registrar at the College. Prior to this Lt. Col. McDonald served as a helicopter pilot and commanding officer of the 408 Tactical Helicopter Squadron.

Interviewer: Linden MacIntyre

ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT OCCURRED TO ME ABOUT JOE GROZELLE, HE CAME HERE AS AN ATHLETE.  SOME UNIVERSITIES HAVE A HIGH TOLERANCE FOR ATHLETES.  THEY GET AN EASIER RIDE.  WOULD IT HAVE BEEN EASIER FOR JOE A) TO GET IN OR B) TO DO WELL HERE BECAUSE HE WAS A VARSITY ATHLETE?

No, I wouldn’t believe so.  There’s always the discussion of varsity athletes being given extra privileges or an easier door to come through.  However, the recruiting system is not something that the Royal Military College controls.  It’s done by the Canadian Forces recruiting system and they have very stringent entry requirements.

And so the academic requirements, which is first and foremost, has to be met in all cases.  Subsequent to that, then the interview process and how they’re scored is all exactly the same.  And then they’re merit listed and based on their merit listing and the types of careers that they’ve asked for, they will be given an offer.

What it does mean however is by being an athlete prior, we may be aware of a particular applicant where the majority we wouldn’t be aware of and somebody may speak to his potential because they know him.  That might help but for the most part they get in on their own merits.

SO HE HAD ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT OBLIGATIONS HERE.  HE WAS SPORTS, LANGUAGE, ACADEMIC AND THEN THE MILITARY.

Correct.

IS THERE A PARTICULAR ORDER OF PRIORITY IN WHAT HE WOULD BE EXPECTED TO CONSIDER IMPORTANT?

I would suggest that that would vary completely by the individual.  The four component program that, that we push here at RMC demand the same from every individual, but depending on who the individual is.

If somebody comes in and they’re very academically successful, 90-95% average, then they probably don’t have to focus nearly as much in classroom to achieve very good grades and can focus on something that they might be struggling with, like athletics or the military side.

Somebody like Joe Grozelle, who was very gifted as an athlete, could come in and the physical aspects here would probably be second nature to him and so he wouldn’t have to put in the same amount of time.  He might be able to focus on a second language training or on his academics because he needed a little more work in that area.

So it varies with each individual.  And what we find very quickly is they develop little cadres to help each other out and so where one might be struggling academically, somebody would mentor that individual and they would turn around and help him in second language or help him in their military structure.

NOW YOU DIDN’T KNOW JOE PERSONALLY, BUT I GUESS YOU’VE GOT TO KNOW HIM ON PAPER VERY WELL.

Very much so, yes.

WHAT WERE HIS STRENGTHS HERE?

What were his strengths?  I would say from, from my perspective, as the deputy director of cadets, is Joe Grozelle for the most part was a middle of the pack type of individual.

However, because of our athletic program, the varsity program, and Joe was front and centre there, then that’s certainly where he would tend to stand out.

Certainly amongst his peers, they know who the varsity athletes are.  They know that they’re good performers.  He was sports officer within his squadron so he’s holding one of the higher bar positions, so he would stand out from that perspective as well.

ACADEMICALLY?

Academically, again not a Rhodes scholar, but at the same time not having any significant difficulties.

I GUESS HE WOULD, HE WOULD KNOW THAT IF HE WANTED TO PLAY BASKETBALL, HE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THE MARK, HE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO GET THE GRADES.

That’s absolutely right.  Being a part of the varsity program is a privilege.  Everybody takes a part in sports here at the college at cadet and the majority of our students, 80% of them, take part in intramurals because they don’t have the athletic ability to play at that level.

But certainly those that do and are selected know first and foremost that they have to perform in their other responsibilities, academics, military and second language, dress and deportment and so on.

NOW A LOT HAS BEEN MADE OF THE FACT THAT JOE CAME HERE BECAUSE THE BASKETBALL COACH SPOTTED HIM.  THAT JOE WASN’T ENTIRELY LIKE MILITARY CHARACTER, YOU KNOW, INITIALLY.  HOW DID HE ADJUST?  I MEAN FROM WHAT YOU CAN ASCERTAIN.  LIKE HOW DID HE COME AROUND?  DID HE COME ALL THE WAY AROUND TO THAT WHAT’S EXPECTED OF A POTENTIAL MILITARY OFFICER OR WAS HE KIND OF LIKE GOING ALONG WITH IT?

Nobody necessarily has the complete snapshot of an individual.  Yes, a student will have a file and you can look at that and get a certain picture of who that individual is.  You can talk to peers and get a certain indication of who the person is.  You can talk to their chain of command.  But they’ll all have different views.

And that’s where I tend to say that a person like Joe Grozelle more or less fit into the stream, in that he adjusted, he stood out in a number of different ways.  He aspired to do bigger and better things at the college before he left.  You don’t tend to do that if he didn’t like being here or he wanted to get out.  You wanted to stay low key and hidden in the background.

I GUESS THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS THAT JOE WAS HERE AFTER 3 YEARS AND HE WAS DOING OKAY.  HE WASN’T A PROBLEM FOR YOU.

No.

AND HE CERTAINLY WASN’T SOMEBODY THAT YOU WERE TAKING AROUND AND SHOWING AS AN EXMAPLE OF WHAT EVERYBODY SHOULD BE.  HE WAS –

That’s exactly true.  Although he was for, for the most part what would consider the RMC poster child in that he was young, he was athletic, he was successful in each of the four components to the level that we expect them at that stage.

And certainly, if we were going to go out to a university fair or to a guidance counselor show or to a high school, he’s exactly the kind of individual that we would want to represent.  You know, he’s the class poster child.  You don’t want the pure academic going out there and not being able to talk to the other things and subsequently you don’t want the pure jock that can’t pass his academics.

Joe was the, the middle of the road, the performer in all of the areas, and that’s really what we’re trying to display to people we’re attracting, to come to the military and to RMC, is that you don’t have to be a superstar in any one of those four areas.  You have to be able to buckle down and work hard and the system will help you out.