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WEDNESDAY FEBRUARY 8, 2006 | Bookmark this page | E-mail to a friend |
(43:00)
Montreal lawyer Claude-Armand Sheppard led the government's defence during
Brian Mulroney's lawsuit against the federal government. Claude-Armand Sheppard: What, well I could, it leaves no doubt that he had no dealings. That's a, a very eloquent, vocal answer by someone who is a master of the English language. The question is clear. It leaves no doubt in my mind that whatever relationship existed was not a business relationship because he saw. That's what I would deduce from that answer. I don't know at this stage as a fact, as a lawyer whether that's untrue or not. You say you refer to certain things but I'm not aware of that.
…
Linden MacIntyre: BUT IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THIS AT THE FACE OF IT, AND WITH ALL RESPECT, MISTER MULRONEY OUT TALKED YOU. HE BURIED YOU IN A LOT OF INFORMATION, SOME OF WHICH WAS RELEVANT AND SOME IT WASN'T. AND, AND YOU MOVED ON TO A SAFER AR, AREAS FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW.
Claude-Armand Sheppard: (pause) He made the statement he had no dealings with Mister Schreiber. The Statement is on the record. And, I moved on.
Linden MacIntyre: MISTER TREMBLAY, MISTER MULRONEY'S LAWYER SAID MOVE ON. AGAIN, YOU'VE DEALT THIS...
Claude-Armand Sheppard: Yes, and again,
I cannot go beyond saying that; I hope I knew what I was doing and
why I was doing it. I could have followed up. I could have insisted.
I could have gone to a Judge to have a ruling. I could have gone to
a pre.. I could have made a lots of things.
It's not because you're stopped questioning, or because
somebody tries to sidetrack you or your very good opponent objects
for whatever reason that that's the end of it.
There was going to be a trial and it got settled the evening of
the trial, or, or the evening before the trial was going to begin. Lots
of things can happen at trial.
So if you want to suggest that things could have been
done differently, I'm the first one to admit that.
But it may have been very good reasons why they were done the way they
were done.
And I live with the question, I put to Mister Mulroney were there
other, were there any other dealings? He lives with the answer. I am
not unhappy with my question.
ON THE SETTLEMENT
Claude-Armand Sheppard: I had a mandate, which
required me to help the Government justify its position in the civil
libel suit.
And I had a client, the RCMP which was conducting an investigation
and which wanted to continue to conduct an investigation.
And which I would speculate might have had some concern about not
having to come to court and discuss the contents of its files.
The result of the settlement was that the RCMP was able
to continue doing what it wanted to do and Mister Mulroney got his
expenses paid.
I think he got an apology from the Government and he got a sense
of elation and vindication.
In a sense, everybody was happy or everybody was unhappy, I don't
know, but Government had reasons why it wanted to settle.
Mister Mulroney had reasons why he wanted to settle. Reflect on that.
LUC LAVOIE AND THE SPIN CAMPAIGN
Linden MacIntyre: MISTER LAVOIE SAID A LOT OF THINGS. I MEAN HE'S –
Claude-Armand Sheppard: He does. He's paid for that. He was paid seven hundred thousand dollars for that.
Linden MacIntyre: AND DO YOU THINK HE'S EARNED ALL THAT MUCH, ALL THAT MONEY?
Claude-Armand Sheppard: I think he deserved every cent of it because as spin doctors go, he was the best spinner I think that the in another life he should spin for the Cirque du Soleil. He was good.
Linden MacIntyre: YEAH, THE SPIN. THE SPIN OBVIOUSLY CONDITIONED THE PUBLIC IN A CERTAIN, IN A CERTAIN WAY. AND I'M JUST WONDERING, HOW, HOW BIG A FACTOR DOES, YOU KNOW, IT WAS ASTONISHING TO ME THAT, THAT THE PUBLIC RELATIONS SIDE OF THIS GETS SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LAWYERS GOT, BUT ANYWAY, SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IS AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY FOR SPIN.
Claude-Armand Sheppard: Yes but the spin was brilliant. And I suppose they included everything including Mister Mulroney, Mulroney showing up at the courthouse steps in the family station wagon, with his wife and children, or child. I I think that was a very, very professional job. Whether it's worth seven hundred thousand dollars, I, ask Mister Mulroney.
…
Claude-Armand Sheppard: You don't want to do these things in public. But, it's, again I must say it's very interesting that the case got settled very quickly after that.
Linden MacIntyre: AND WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THAT TO?
Claude-Armand Sheppard: To the collective wisdom
of good lawyers who will tell you that a bad settlement is better than
a good case.
I think it was not a situation where other than the public,
and the media, you wanted to go through the agony of a trial,
possible appeals. God knows what comes out in these situations. Mister
Mulroney wanted to make a point, which he did with the distinguished
help of Mister Lavoie and others.
He had very good advisors. And the Government had its own objectives
particularly the RCMP and they were safe guarded. So, the
lawyers and the PR people were very happy because they got paid by the
Canadian people.
THE ROLE OF A LAWYER
Claude-Armand Sheppard: But had I represented Mister
Mulroney do you think I would have gone easy on the theatrics
and the presentation?
It's, it's a real tragedy for people who go through
a libel. Judges often don't understand that.
But as a defense lawyer, my job is not to do anything but to try
and show that the defendant acted properly within the bounds of the
law.
And did no more than the minimum he had to do. And that there was no
malice involved. That's the job of the defense lawyer to judge
them besides.
You're not there to minimize the suffering. You might do when
you argue damages.
You're not there to suggest that someone who obviously has gone
through terrible things hasn't suffered.
You basically try and establish that your public life there's
an investigation going on. It's not our fault that it became public.
And the language used in view of the Government was not exaggerated.
That was a position.
But then both sides settled and I don't think that there's
enough reflection being given by all these people who score, who won
or lost that who won and who really lost.
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