INTERVIEW: Bret Hart

Bret Hart is among Stampede Wrestling's best-known alumni. As one of Stu Hart's eight sons, Bret joined the family business as a youngster, refereeing and driving wrestlers across the prairies, before entering the ring full time. He wrestled for 23 years, moving on from his father's regional promotion to the lucrative World Wrestling Federation WWF (later to become the WWE). After joining the WWE, Hart became known as "Hitman". He is now retired and recently published a book, "Hitman: My Real Life in the Cartoon World of Wrestling". He was interviewed by fifth estate reporter Bob McKeown. Watch the interview online.

Bob McKeown: You say in the film that the people who say it's not real - they don't know how real it is. What did you mean by that?

Bret Hart: Well wrestling, I mean just a body slam. You can't fake a body slam. I don't care who it is doing it or who it is taking it. I mean, you know, I could body slam you on the ground and there's now way to fake it. It's going to hurt. I know wrestlers that you can pick them up and body slam them and they can tell you that we take it every night, but it hurts like hell, you know. And all the falls in wrestling, when you watch wrestling and you go - when you watch - ew that looked like - I'm guessing that really hurt. You're probably right, it really hurt. I mean there's very little of what you see that - that doesn't hurt for real.

Bob McKeown: And is the pain part of what people respond to? I'm talking about wrestlers now. Is the pain part of the syndrome in a way? That because you're constantly battling it, you're looking for ways to get over it, to medicate yourself?

Bret Hart: Well, I don't - I mean I can't speak for all these wrestlers that have taken pain pills and got addicted to them and allow pain to be an excuse for them. The truth about wrestling is that it's a painful job if you don't do it right and it's a painful job if you do it, like I did for 23 years. I'm sure you're going to pay for it just the way a football player or anybody pays for the physical - physicalities of whatever job they're in.

But all the years I wrestled I never needed to take pain pills and I never, you know, I just did the job and the whole idea about - the beauty of what I did and what I sort of value in myself as a wrestler was that I was an artist. There's no - there's nothing getting hurt for real over. Like I never ever wanted to hurt anybody for real. If I hurt someone for real it was - it was like a mark against you. And a few wrestlers from my generation actually hurt each other. It was all about putting on these unbelievable physical dramas and ah almost like figure skating is what I think more of pro wrestling.

Most of the greatest matches of my career, even when I wrestled for my father here or when I wrestled for WWF, nobody was ever hurt in the making of any of those movies. But wrestling has changed a little bit now where guys are really hitting each other hard with chairs and you know, it's moved into a different genre now.

Bob McKeown: Why is that?

Bret Hart: It's - the biggest reason I think is you've got to point at your audience. That's usually the defining factor and what guides wrestling along to where it is is what sells. And fans have taken it to where it is today.

Bob McKeown: So it's like everything else - that the bar keeps getting raised. And if you did this last year when you came through town they you're got to to it this year.

Bret Hart: Well I think you always find guys that innovate or trying to find a new way to do stuff or a different way of doing things. There's a lot of high flying and ah more complicated ah sort of lighter guys doing these moves that are pretty scary. But you know, I'm not hearing too much about wrestlers getting hurt from that. I think these young - a lot of these wrestlers are - they're gonna surface years from now in wheelchairs and stuff.

But I think the problem I see with wrestlers today is that they take all these falls and they get beat up, physically beat up for years, especially as they get older their hips start to go and their backs start to go and their knees go and their shoulders. And ah they keep going, and they keep going and they keep going. But there's no end in sight. Like you just keep going till you're so broken down that they finally push you out the door.

Most wrestlers never make enough to, you know, have any kind of real savings at the end of it. So a lot of them end up with nothing at the end. They're just usually, for a lot of wrestlers it's always like - even though some of them make a lot of money - they will eventually have blown it all by the time they get to the end of their career. And then there's some that just never made enough money, period. There's always a real - the scale - the percentage of guys making big money and the rest of the card, there's a big difference in the pay salary.

Whereas ... my dad's wrestling, stampede wrestling, the top guy and the bottom guy, the difference is a few hundred dollars. Like it was all so close together. It was like nobody cared. There was no - whatever it took to do the best business. I mean nobody ever complained about - there was not so much jealousy and rivalry as to who was being paid more or anything like that. It was always pretty well accepted.

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Bob McKeown: They seem to be taking concussion far more seriously these days in football and in hockey.

Bret Hart: As well they should.

Bob McKeown: What about wrestling?

Bret Hart: Generally in pro wrestling, when I got into it, you didn't take a lot of blows to the head. I never ever took a lot of blows to the head. I ended up getting kicked in the head near the end of my career and that's what ended it. But generally speaking, you didn't take blows to the head. You weren't supposed to, not real ones anyway. You were supposed to take pretend ones. But what happened with Chris Benoit, I don't think knowing my own experience with concussions you can start to become pretty messed up from all that.

When I hit the ground it had all the makings to me of another concussion. It seemed like I had a similar thing where I saw silver dots was another - just certain things that happened to me seemed to be the same. And as it turned out to be a stroke, I don't know. My concussion injury was in the back of my head and my stroke was on the top of my head so it's fair to say that it might not have been connected.

Bret Hart: Anybody says to you, look, you had a concussion yesterday. You're not going to be able to wrestle again until the doc says it's okay.

Bret Hart: I can't say because I'm not there. I don't know who they've got watching that kind of stuff. But I would think they would. But again, generally in wrestling, normally in my era nobody was really - there was nobody - I don't know very many wrestlers coming back. I do remember one wrestler coming back with a concussion injury. It was my brother Owen. That's the only guy I can think of in all the years I wrestled that had a concussion injury that was clearly a concussion and he had taken time off for it. Probably not enough time. But that's how little they knew about it back then.

Even when I got hurt, I mean nobody cared. The concussion was like saying you sprained your thumb, you know. Like tape it up and just get out there, you know, and it will be okay, you know. Just you know, just be careful what you do. Don't run into any walls. But I mean they don't - they don't take into account the fact that just a body slam or any kind of a move when you've got a concussion is another concussion. It's another - when you bang your whole body, when you jar your whole body you're shaking your brain up in your head. It's all bad.

Bob McKeown: Mike Benoit, Chris's dad, is convinced that that is the element that was the crucual one in his son's story.

Bret Hart: I believe him. I totally believe that and I think you'll find more truth in that than you will in anything else. And I think everything else is - in a lot of ways will end up being purely speculation …

Bob McKeown: It's been said to us that at one point probably when you were in the business, steroids were more of less a personal choice someone decided to do it or not. That evolved, we've been told, into if not exactly a company policy, cetainly something was was more expected that you would do to look a certain way. Is there something to that?

Bret Hart: Well I think being honest I think most of the wrestlers, nobody could afford steroids when you were working for sort of smalltime promotions and stuff. It wasn't - very few wrestlers could afford it. But that's not to say that it wasn't around. It was around. I'm sure I knew lots of guys that were on steroids when I worked for my father, the Bulldogs being two of them. But there was no reason for 'em and the only reason you took them was to, to to have a better body. And I think in the WWE or WWF when I got there, no one - no one came out and downright told you that ah that you had to take them or you should take them or they would advise - it might be in your best interest to take them.

But I think it was a case of wrestlers - and understanding of steroids at the time, steroids were everywhere - in high school gyms and weightlifting places. You know, every gym you'd go into you could find somebody that could find you steroids. And I think doctors could still prescribe them. .There was a lot of doctors that would administer steroids pretty freely. And so it was around and it wasn't quite the taboo about it that it is today. So you could get pulled into it. But I think you did it all on your own. I don't think you could pin that one on Vince McMann or anyone else.

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Bob McKeown: We've talked about how complicated and difficult the sport can be for families. I guess in most ways good and bad, your family knows that better than any. When you sit here today and loo at all that's gone on for you and the rest of the Harts, has it been worth it?

Bret Hart: I don't have any hard feelings towards wrestling. I've got two sons that are both big strapping - one is 6-3 and other is 6-2. And they're perfect. My dad would be drooling at maybe getting them down to the gym. But they don't have any interest in it at all. But if they said to me tomorrow, like you know, dad, we're thinking about maybe getting into wrestling, I don't have any problem. I'd help them all I could. I think wrestling can be good. It's a great way to - I made a lot of money at it. I traveled around the world. I met all kinds of people.

You've just gotta stay - rise above it all the time, you know. There's all kinds of pitfalls out there. It's like there's pitfalls in rock and roll, there's pitfalls in hockey, there's pitfalls in everything. If you're smart, and you can be smart - I don't think right now, for example, I think if you were , like my nephew Harry Smith is in the WWF or WWE now, he should do great and he should have a great career and probably have a great experience travelling around, seeing the world and staying in shape.

Wrestling can be a great way to make a living if you just - you've gotta have an exit strategy. You've just got to have an exit strategy when you get in. You've got to know when you're going to get out and you've got to set your goals and you know, make a promise to yourself that you know how you're gonna figure - you know, you're gonna plan your way out of this. Otherwise you may be doing it like Jake Roberts, till you're 60.