There's a saying that life at it's best resembles a calvary charge. This is what fighting in hockey is. Skilled, violent and mostly beautiful. Of course many would disagree but this would be similar to asking a lamb if he thinks lions are too savage. Of course the lamb does, he thinks counterfactually that he one day will be at the other end of the lion's beat down. Rest assured lambs, not only will you never have to fight on the ice, you couldn't fight on the ice. But alas know this, you may avoid some peril but one day it'll find you. And only then will you realize that you have missed life at it's best.

for all the talk of fighting and how bad it is when was the last time a hockey player was involed in an off ice run ins with the police.like the other major sports that don't allow fighting seemslike every week some one in the nba,mlb and nfl is getting arrested for something.as for as violence the word means to violate.when 2 men agree to fight is no longer becomes violence.and how people that don't like fighting in hockey like mma,ufc and professinal wrestling

It's too bad Bob did not just go out and seek winter sport loving folk who have left hockey principally due to the disgusting culture that surrounds it today. It is a beautiful sport, however those running the NHL miss the entire point about life and sport.

Sport is about acheiving excellence and doing so fairly and with justice, and it is a metaphor for life and society. What kind of sport has a set of written rules that are routinely violated and not respected by the players, the owners and administrators? What kind of sport has a whistle blown to interrupt the play when and then breaks out into illegal activity. What kind of country tolerates this violence that is officially not part of the sport, that occurs outside the regulation time, and does not stop it with its own civil police. What kind of organization rewards this behaviour with high salaries? What kind of people are we that support it with our ticket purchases, endorsements etc. My kid would love to play hockey, and I would love for him to play hockey ... but guess what ... he is not! Because there is nothing in the sport that upholds human dignity in Canada today ... We need to clean up our culture and this sport ... how shameful. And quit giving Cherry tax money (does he not get 600K from the CBC) and air time already. Come on. I want a game that my kid can play and I want to be the one to say "I don't care about guys like Cherry ..."

Why has there been so little mention of the other player in the Sanderson incident. A choirboy by no means. His 300+ PIM the year before in Junior hockey lead one to think he was bred to battle, and more experienced in putting players down.

There's nothing wrong with an evenly matched disagreement, but I can't imagine that Sanderson's opponent was on the ice for his goal-scoring abilities.

Sanderson simply had the balls to face up to the "bully".

I had a friend who played for the Belleville bulls and he used to stick up for Jason Spezza, and Kyle Wellwood he would be called a tough guy I guess. Ask Spezza and Wellwood how much they appreciated him when he played. I bet you dollars to doughnuts they didn’t mind having him on the ice with them to clear the way and make sure no one hit them. My point is simple, for every NHL star that is in the NHL today there have been 5-10 “tough guys” that have never been mentioned that help them get to where they are. Now we fast forward to the NHL ask Crosby, Gretzky, Spezza even how they feel about tough guys???? I bet you dollars to doughnuts they ABSOLUTELY APPRECIATE them. If not I bet these guys would have sore bodies buy the end of the year. So as we sit on our couches and we complain that there should be no fighting and hockey is to violent, then just think how are superstars go to where they are today??? “With a little help from our friends” Joe Cockren

Let me start by saying... for all of those people that made these comments about fighting in hockey and how it should be taken out.

Question-Have you ever played the game at a level where fighting was aloud?

With regards to “Fighting in hockey” some else said it best. If the Gretzky’s and the Crosby’s did have tough guys then who would they be today.... Average!

You people make comments like people can get hurt fighting... Here is a question I would like all of you to answer “Why doesn’t anyone, including the Fifth Estate question the “TOUCH ICING RULE” which in my opinion has INJURED/PARALYZED more people then fighting ever will” That should be looked at first rather than fighting. Not to mention the “Hits from behind that everyone is excepting these days” I get sick watching those highlights.

Let’s me put it as simple as I can. Hockey is a tough sport, in order to play the game you need to be tough as well as skilled, they are correct to say there is a ”Code”. I personally love the “Code” and followed it when I played Junior. If it was easy then we would all be playing soccer, or figure skating. For all the hockey mom’s and soon to be gay fathers with kids that are speaking out then take your kids out of the game tomorrow! Please, it is not the sport for you or them. Girls hockey has no hitting, see if you can create a co-ed no contact team, but leave our game the way it is. I loved the game when I played it and it was because of the adrenaline I got from that little bit of fear when I stepped on the ice during a playoff game when the sport got a little bit tougher and the other teams enforcer’s were looking for some big hits.

I did my best and played at a junior level. I entered the league at 16 and played the full 5 years. I also had the pleasure of playing with Don Sanderson when we were 19-20yrs old for a the better part of a year “God rest his soul” this is not to slam him, shame him or his family in any way, shape or form but in my opinion he was not brought to our team for skill but for being tough and fitting, he knew that, his parents knew that and we knew that. It may sound evil but that’s the true. When I watched “The Code” I was so upset at how he was portrayed as an innocent victim. He was not dumb, he knew what he was doing, and he knew what he had to do to get to the next level. He was a very nice guy and a very good teammate and friend and he would stick up for anyone of us. He knew exactly what he was doing, and for that Don, We have a beer every year for you at the Camp buddy!

In a nut shell if you don’t like the hitting, fighting, fast skating, toughness of our sport of hockey then simply walk away. But don’t wreck it for the rest of us who thrive on it!

All I see is that Feb 29 2010 I saw the best hockey Ive ever seen, and guess what?? no fights...so my guess is the fighting isnt so much giving the fans what they want..good well played exciting, end to end hockey, but giving the owners what they want more money because as we all know violence sells, and this business of the code is just a smokescreen for those who advocate violence, to justify it, and put fans in the seats..its all about bucks when you come down to it, how many fights in the all star game?? and thats when the best of the best play the best..or the olympics??, well spoken Don and Dean.

After listening to the CBC program on fighting in Hockey, I have a few questions to ask Canadians :
1/ What were the best high skill hockey games in the last year ?
2/ Was there fighting in those games ?
3/ If 60% of Canadians oppose hockey fighting and 70% of fans support fighting, how many people may be avoiding hockey because of the fighting ? (don't try this Math don cherry)
4/ What values does hockey fighting by adult role models teach other adults and children ?
5/ How many better players at all levels have been forced out of hockey by goons ?
6/ If Gretsky was never allowed to be bodychecked(or you'd be assaulted by marty mcsorley),didn't that give Wayne an unfair advantage ?
7/ Why is fighting necessary when you have referees to penalize fouls (they're at least 99% perfect,more than any of us can claim in our work)?
8/What does any fighting solve except prove stupidity?

Reading all these pro-fighting comments is truly scary. I get all the so-called "reasons" people say to support fighting in hockey, one of them being that very few people ever die from a hockey fight. This view is truly disturbing--do people have to die in great numbers for the rest of you to wake up and realize how violent the game is? How about the multiple concussions players have? How about living in fear that tomorrow I gotta go out and fight and I don't know what will happen to me?

Maybe fighting has always existed in hockey. But compare the size of the players 50 years ago to the size of the players now--there is NO comparison!!! Players these days are 6-feet+, 250 pounds. Fighting with these types may not get you killed but you will have permanent damage for life--but I guess that's just not good enough of a reason to ban fighting.

I love hockey. My son plays hockey. But he will stop playing the day he reaches fighting age. No sport is worth that kind of risk. And it's really sad for the sport because hockey players have the best atheletism of all pro-sports, well, at least the good hockey players.

Terrific show. The only clinker, as usual, was Canada's nuclear powered neon nightmare. I don't even have to mention his name do I. Now, I know that many people enjoy watching this human train wreck, but I don't know anyone who takes him seriously. I mean, let's face it. If it dresses like a clown, acts like a clown, talks like a clown, then it's probably a clown. Unfortunately, I don't think he's going to go away anytime soon, so probably the best we can hope for is that one day he'll trip over one of his own rancid opinions, bang his head on the sidewalk and forget to show up at the CBC studios ever again. Until then, Canada, keep the faith and the mute button handy. This too shall pass.

So, fighting is part of the game? It is part of the game because it is physical.

What a load of nonsense. Fighting and undue roughness is not tolerated in Football, Rugby and here is a good one, Australian Rules Football. Any fighting and undue roughness, you are out of the game!

Olympic Hockey showed us all, our great game of Hockey could be played without fighting. And what great Hockey it was!

I don't really watch a whole lot of hockey, so, I guess according to Don Cherry and others, I don't have the right to have an opinion on this institution which has for years been used to define and or validate Canada as a nation. Fine by me, and to be honest, I couldn't really care less whether fighting is or is not allowed to remain a part of the game. However, when I hear Don Cherry say that as Canadians, Hockey is "the one thing we've got going for us...[the] one thing that we're noted for in the world", it really does offend my "little pitty-heart".

I'm sure that those people who represent our nation beyond our borders, not only the men and women of the Canadian Forces, would be thrilled to know that according to Don Cherry, the only thing that Canada is known for in the world is hockey... Of course, I'm sure Don Cherry's attitude will change the next time some young man or women, or at least what remains of them, comes home in a flag-draped coffin carried by their fellow countrymen.

I'm ashamed that our national broadcasting corporation employs such thoughtless, ignorant, and narrow-minded people as Don Cherry.

why do the defenders of fighting in hockey say that the stars of the game would be constantly attacked by opponents if enforcers were not allowed?
how is it that the nfl and major soccer protect star players by simply enforcing the rules and severe suspensions for violations.
everyone i talked to after the olympics enjoyed the fightless games.

Regarding hockey fighting and 'the code'.
There is no doubt in my mind that 'the code' is not at all a fabrication and is very much real. I believe hockey icons such as Gretzky would very much not have been able to exist without the code.
I also believe that older, retired/retiring players recognize there is something wrong, that hockey has become more violent than the past, both in frequency and intensity. They defend their actions, but yearn for a better future. Witness Kipreoss's reaction to the idea of his son being an enforcer.
Love him or hate him, good 'ole Cherry is correct with his enforcer view point, but unfortunately is also very much seated in the past. Additionally, he is also seated at the head of the table to perpetuate this past with his influence on both the public at large and the next generation of up and coming hockey players.
In light of the latest 'blind side to the head hit' rule, I think it can be said that violence is starting to be seen to be problem. Unfortunately, likely only because it is starting affect profits, not because of safety. Gary Bettman is very much an old school individual, unlike Don Cherry, however, he is responsible to produce a product that the public is willing to consume. It is Mr. Bettman who is faced with the biggest challenge of breaking beyond his own paradigm and establishing a new reality. A new code. From the ground up.
I count myself as a former NHL fan. I absolutely loved the calibre of play at the olympics this year and wonder why if it's possible to play like that in the olympics for 2 wks, why not in the NHL for an entire season?
John.

Listen folks nothing is going to stop violence in the NHL. Hockey...maybe! All the old fight promoters like Bettman, Cherry and their ilk are catering to the worst of the hockey crowd. Believe it or not there are a ton of real Canadian hockey fans out in the real world who love the sport but have turned away from it because it's just, as one person said it, "the American game". For a lot of us the NHL has lost the sport value and has become entertainment....yes not much different than the WWF. Cherry isn't a hockey fan, he's a hockey entertainer, an attention seeker like Ann Coulter and Paris Hilton. And yes I whole heartedly agree with some on this page that the CBC should not be sending Don Cherry a pay cheque. Especially, when they have someone as capable as Ron McLean.
I'd love to see a new pro 'all Canadian' league started, where pure hockey is played. Where the Gretzki's, Lemeaux's and Crosby's could play the game fearlessly and set better examples for the kids who aspire to play pro. Where parents like Mike Sanderson aren't afraid to send their hockey loving kids. Where the goons are weeded out early in their careers. Where players make the rules and where strict adherence to the rules are enforced with real teeth.
If guys like Jim Balsillie seriously want to get into the game of hockey and challenge Bettman style hockey, there couldn't be a better time than right now. A time where the memory of Don Sanderson is still fresh in the minds of HOCKEY fans.

'The Code.'

What a sorry excuse to keep fighting in a game.

I referee rugby. Fighters are kicked out of games and suspended. Period. Is Rugby a soft game or filled with cheap shots. NO. Because it is the responsibility of the referees to deal with foul play.

If fighting was banned from hockey, the focus of the officials would be for a clean game. The dirty players could be flagged and suspended if they do not play within the rules of the game, simple. It works in Rugby, as tough a game as hockey without the allowance for fighting.

Oh, and for some odd reason olympic hockey is more entertaining and cleaner, with no fighting ( Explain that Don Cherry:)). The only hockey I find entertaining enough to watch.

As I watched this program, I became more and more upset, First of all "If you don't like watching hockey fights, change the channel on your @#$@#$ TV because you are not the ones at the arenas supporting your teams. Second if you are against fighting then pull your little kid from the game and get him to join figure skating. "I heard they are looking for those types of parents that live throught their kids". As a former player of the game "Turn around and face the music" don't skate away like a little pansy, that is when they are getting hurt (blind slided), if you have the guts to play dirty then pay the piper for your actions. Just my thought and it feels good to get them out. Thanks

This whole "CODE" thing is just an excuse for goons and no talent athletes not to have a reason to exersise self control.
In no other sport is fighting condoned... If read the other posts about hockey being a passoinate game and as a result fighting in a given. All sports are passionate... but the true athletes and sportsmen choose to control their passion and anger... it's called sportmanship.... it's called character... it's called integrety.... all the reasons I've always heard that sports are integral in developing.
A case in point is the great hockey we all witnessed at the Olympics.... not a fight durring the whole tournament... obviously passion was able to be reined in by the same players who say it's an integral part of the game in the NHL... GIVE ME A BREAK ! ! !
Here's an idea after the third period and the shoot outs... if the goons still want to fight.... I'm sure Don Cherry will be happy to be the master of ceremonies at the Post game boxing match.
It's time hockey caught up with the rest of the professional sports community and get tough on unsportsmanship... and let the truly skilled players be the stars.
Untill then.... I'll continue my boycot of hockey

I saw most of "The Code", and must say it was excellent. I've been a hockey fan since I was a kid, and I've played the game recreationally.I think the game could be much improved if fighting, stickwork, post-whistle scrums, and all violence other than clean body-checks were removed from the game. Kypreos was almost right when he said fighting could be eliminated with ejections and suspensions. The fact is that even with ejections, fighting occasionally occurs in baseball and football, but it is far less frequent. Although I enjoy hockey, I like football a lot more, partly because fights are not tolerated. Let's admit the truth that fighting is not necessary in hockey either, and it is only people who like violence in general who approve of hockey fights. The referees are there to enforce the rules, so an enforcer is unneccesary. If hockey is just too fast-paced for a referee and two linesmen to fairly call a game, then I would suggest that leagues with the financial ability (such as the NHL etc.) post one or two off-ice referees sitting in higher locations to make calls as well. Everyone knows you can see the whole ice-surface better from higher up. While it is true that the arena erupts when a fight breaks out, I am not one of those cheering, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's disgusted by this method of settling disputes. It is childish, disrespectful, undignified, and it sometimes, although not always, reveals a person with a lack of self-control. The following is a list of measures the hockey world should take to clean up the ugliest part of it's game. 1. When the play stops, the linesman should immediately take the puck to the face-off circle and drop it to elimate scrums. Anyone still pushing and shoving etc. after the puck has been dropped gets a delay of game penalty, or better yet, gets ejected from the game. Scrums, like fighting, are a childish waste of time. 2. Fighting should result in ejection from the game and a suspension from the next game. Repeat offenders should get lengthier suspensions 3. Institute one or two off-ice officials with the ability to call penalties that the on-ice officials miss, to cut down on behind the play shenanigans. I'm sure technology would also be available to have this done in the NHL with cameras and computers instead of just relying on human eyes. 4. Crack down on obstruction penalties, like they're supposed to. It seems to me that the post-lockout NHL crackdown on obstruction violations is deteriorating again year by year. The Olympics were atrocious for uncalled obstruction. 5. Start calling interference by the book. In any given game, hooking and holding are called a few times, but countless interference incidents go unpenalized. It's ridiculous! 6. Institute "no-touch" icing calls. This should be a no-brainer (pun-intended). In conclusion, I would just like to say to Don Cherry that I am not a "bleeding heart left-winger". If you talked to me about some issues you might pigeon-hole me as a left-winger, and on other issues you might judge me to be a right-winger. One thing is certain. Don Cherry, not being God, isn't right about everything.

I am a 55 year old man who watched the Olympic hockey game with my son,and we both enjoyed the game with no fights,and i am sure that other hockey players and fans watched and enjoyed also,but I am tired of Don the tough quy promoting his code. Why dont the players fight under the stands not in camera view, if need be, I'd like to see if they feel its worth the fight without the cameras on them. You see I drive tracter trailers and we have a code also, we go between trailers and have it out. Its the skill of the player that should be promoted, the fists are for boxers, maybe you are in the wrong sport Don.
So Don if you are a man I would like to see you beside my trailer anytime you want,so Don bring it on .P.S. When you meet your maker we will see how tough you are,you frigged up hockey enough with your image. Now leave the pros alone.

Nick K., you're courage to speak so honestly about the dilemma shows you are a 'true fighter' - possessing the intelligence and introspect to re-evaluate such an archaic tradition. There should be little confusion about why fighting is still permitted in the NHL. Gary Bettman and cohorts make a fortune by promoting and supporting it. The NHL is reaping the benefits of providing entertainment and cares nothing about the safety and well being of players.
Hockey is a sport. Boxing is a separate sport, so why do we accept the NHL's agenda to combine the two? It's barbaric, and, quite frankly, pathetic. You want to watch real hockey and real skill, then watch the Olympics where fighting is not condoned...and witness and enjoy true hockey.
Let's show some respect for what hockey is really about and remind ourselves that our children are absorbing this behaviour as a way of dealing with anger. What a shame and insult to such a great sport.

In reply to Don Cherry`s comment that 70% of people that watch hockey want fighting, this does not make it right, I,m sure that 70% or more of people that watch dog fighting want or support dog fighting, that 70% of people that smoked in restaurants wanted or supported smoking in restaurants.

To the argument that without fighting, they`ll retaliate in another way on the ice, with no tolerance and severe enough penalties ie. expulsion from games and salary loss, they`ll stop.

In time, people will enjoy hockey for... wait for it... the game.

I'm not condoning fighting, nor condemning it. If it doesn't happen fighting, it will happen somewhere else. Its a slippery slope until, in the end, everyone will have to be in bubble wrap 24 hours a day for fear of injury or death.

How many people die per year playing hockey? How many police officers die per year? We think of the jobs as the holy grail of hero's. Think about this the next time you see a full dress parade for an officer or a firefighter that died in the line of duty, perhaps the 1 or 2 that happened that year... How many men and women died in the construction industry this year. No full dress parade for the hundreds that die every year in building our homes.

I may have twisted and distorted the main issue, but when you play a game for millions of dollars per year on ice, with metal blades on your feet, and sticks shooting 100 mph hard rubber disc's, you know what you're getting into from childhood. I don't wish a death in ANY job, but its an inevitability no matter what you do. Minimize the risks yes, but a new on will always present itself... 100 years from now after fighting is banned... we'll be arguing if real people should be playing the game or if robots should do it because its too dangerous... then a robot will steal my job someday for fear of me getting a paper cut at work.

I just watched the Fifth Estate program "The Code".

I found it to be one sided and emotionally slanted.

As a hockey fan, player and parent I believe that fighting in hockey is part of the fabric of the game. Hockey is Hockey because of this being one of it's parts.

I don't like seeing my kids in hockey fights but they as well as I except this as part of the game.

I have a suggestion for those who want fighting out of the game, Vote with your feet. Don't watch, participate, allow your kids to participate or support the game in any way, shape or form as it is now. I will guarantee you that my type of hockey will be here long after you are gone!

The Olympics in Vancouver this year was the first time that I have watched hockey for many years. I refuse to watch games where men will senselessly hurt each other when not necessary and pile-up and listen to the attendees who forget that this is a game and cheer as if at a bull-fight. I am very much ashamed of Hockey as a Canadian game. I promised myself that I would watch the Olympics, that perhaps some intelligent person at the top somewhere would decide to clean up this carnage where people are being paralized and suffering badly for this senseless way of playing hockey. I enjoyed the clean way that the last three games that I had a chance to view were being played. It was wonderful to finally see a clean game with just a bit of shoving and no injuries. If this continued, I would become a hockey fan again. Bloodthirstyness should not be part of hockey. Please, Please do something, more time out, more games out, you cannot punish by fining them because they have so much money, the fine would be a pittance. I want to see a good game, a good sport as it was intended. The younger generations believe they have to become senseless, wild men when they play as this is what they see and the parents cheer on these innocent young children, Shame, shame, shame.

If so many people are against fighting in hockey, how come when there is a fight, the fans are on there feet, cheering louder then they did for most of the goals scored or yet to be scored? Kind of sounds like people who either dont play hockey, are not involved with hockey, or just play pick up (nothing wrong with pick up or house league) are the ones who really put it down. Bad things happen in hockey, but then again bad things happen in every sport. Its just one of those things people, grow up and let it go or just go watch dancing of some sort (oh but wait even they get hurt!)

I am just wondering what involvment in hockey some of the people in the previous posts have. what kind of hockey they have been around. I have grown up playing hockey my whole life, from mite up to junior hockey. I developed into the guy who would stick up for his team mates. Im proud to say that i was an honourable fighter, I never faught a guy who didnt want to in turn, Ive seen aposing teams use dirty heavy stick work, and then have myself step on the ice and it shuts down, the game suddenly transformed into a honest one. fighting when done properly and by the "code" mentioned in the fifth estate IS a part of hockey. It is as much a part of the game as passing, checking, scoring, penalties and so forth. with every sport the problem that arises is when the odd individual decides to abuse the essince of the game and take advantage of the instigator rule, or use dirty stick work, hitting from behind etc... when fighting has been taken out of the picture (say the so called "fighter" on the team is out) those dirty/cheap individuals suddenly become even more dirty (playing hockey for 20 years they do i can say that)what do they care if they get a 2 minute, 4, 10, oops a game! big deal! If they go unchecked injuries increase and the game is transformed into a less honourable cheap show.
And again to mention some of the previous posts, there are people putting fighting down who admited to not playing the sport: hard to have a fully educated opinion unless you have walked the walk. Some people are saying Don Cherry is a bad influence: did those people actually see the interview?? for one Grapes never said his word was gospel, and he also clearly stated he doest condone unfair fights or dirty play, again the "code" was talked about and explaind several times, you cant get much more honourable or respectful then the "code" people. Someone also made reference to fighters as storm troopers in a negative way: shame on you sir, storm troopers was a name earned by thousands of Canadian soldiers who helped WIN WW1, not some dishonorable group of barbarians.
And to the people who keep refering to the world junior hockey or to the olympics: Who are the players on those teams? they represent a very small portion of hockey players for a reason. they are all the top stars of hockey, they're not known as dirty players, they're not known as fighters (destinction between dirty and fighter there folks) of course your not going to see lots of penalties! of course your not going to see fighting! that hockey has nothing to do with the NHL, Junior, or Minor hockey for that matter.
It seems that people are dwelling on the word 'fighting' and not looking and what it does or means to the game. people are 'fighting' on the street: not the same thing, a true hockey fight cant even be compared. Go ahead and ask the players like Gretzky, Orr, Crosby, ask them and hear them talk about the team tough guy with the highest form of respect and appreciation, those amazing hockey players have long careers because of the guys that look out for them and they'll be the first ones to say so. Theres hockey for those who dont like the game the way its been played for a hundred years, and thats house league, which is nothing to be ashamed of, any hockey is good hockey, but dont go trying to change somthing you have no stake in. if you dont like watching it, then do just that, DONT WATCH IT! NOT THAT HARD TO DO FOLKS!
The Sanderson incident was an extremely unfortunate accident, ACCIDENT folks, nothing more, nothing less, no matter how tragic it truely was.

I gotta say I am not a die hard hockey fan. However I root for my Team the Habs whenever they Play..I'm proud of them, and I'm disgusted that it comes down to dollars and cents Hockey...Hockey was great when the old boys played..B00M B00M Jeffrion,Gump Worsley,Bobby Orr,The Richards,Toe Blake,Dave Keon,Stan Makita,Lafleur,Dryden,And of course Wayne Gretsky..The game changed drastically when the damnn Americans started paying Exorbitant prices for players to play...That's when Hockey went from Heart to Dollars..and the Whole Phukkin game went to hell... You tuned into to view slashing, charging, Spineless Attacks resulting in Victim players being forever out of the game...A fight is a fight when a team is down. But when the game gets to a point that anything goes and players think they can get away with anything and just get a penalty.I'm afraid I start to turn away from Hockey in favor of anything else and resort to teling my Children how Hockey was played from the heart, And fights happened but they weren't a priority...Sadly Baseball ended up the same.Players don't play with heart they play for bucks..I'd like to see National teams with all new players.. those with heart ..Those who wanna play fer Canada and be recognized, Then be Hijacked by the USA lol..But play Canadian to start..You'd be suprised who'd wanna play National hockey just for the recognition...We'd have our old time Hockey players back butt 20 yrs after..GO Habs Go!!!

So, has anyone watched any of the playoffs this year? The games are more violent than the regular season, and yes, there have been fights.

Why?

Because playoff hockey is passionate hockey, and passionate hockey means that sometimes a fight will break out.

Also, many people here seem to be misinterpreting Mr. Cherry's comments about Canadian hockey. He is NOT saying that fighting defines Canadian hockey, he is saying that toughness, grit, passion, hard work, and a "never say die" attitude define Canadian hockey. I think he is quite right, and it is very hard to disagree with these values.

Long story short, minor violence and fighting are a part of passionate hockey. If you disagree with it, fine, find a different sport to watch, rather than try to change the great sport of hockey.

If I was ever told that fighting is now forbidden in any level of hockey, it would take some getting used to I'll wager.
I wish Martey McSorlee had never clubbed the goof Brashere .... but he did. I wish Todd Bertusey had never sucker punched failure Moore .... but he did.
I wish the human gorilla Vaskal (PA Senior Team)hadn't deaten Vic Stein so badly when Vic was a player on the Yellow Bellied Tisdale Rambler team in the 60's.
His entire team stood back and watched as Vaskal beat one of their team mates to a pulp. It was after this lop-sided assault, that Vic Stein knew who the people of Tisdale were truly like.
He retired from hockey as a result of the lack of support and the un-willingness to help him when this criminal goon beat him senseless for no reason other than a game they weren't being paid to play.
BCHimself, Sorrento, BC, Canada

In the program when Brian Burke and Don Cherry are making arguments for fighting in hockey the narrator says it's the same argument that hockey enforcers make. But what about hockey greats? Brett Hull, Wayne Gretzky, Steve Yzerman, Eric Lindros, Scott Stevens, Bobby Orr, Cam Neely, Doug Gilmour etc. have all gone on record for fighting in hockey. Do Bob Mckown and Damian Cox think they know better then them?
In over a hundred years of hockey fighting there has been one death resulting from a hockey fight in a league where fighting is already banned. Hockey fighting is a choice. Mats Sundin has had a long career and has never fought. Nobody is forcing anybody to fight. Far more deaths occur in boxing, horse racing or skiing then ever will happen in a hockey fight.

Don Cherry argues that only those who play the game of hockey know anything about the it and that only they are entitled to an opinion about fighting in hockey. Perhaps he would think differently if it was his child who died.

I was one of the most gifted hockey players of my generation in a hockey town. But I quit early because of the violence. My Dad was a professional boxer and I could have hurt people like Mr. Cherry recommends. The sad things is that these hockey fighters neither know how to play good hockey, nor how to fight well. I chose to not participate in the violence and walked away. I was playing minor hockey at the time.

Mr. Cherry tells the pros that they must be an example to children, but he doesn't seem to realize what a bad example he is to young Canadians. NHL players are an example...but a very bad one, as is he.

Violence is not the answer to good hockey, as the Soviet National Team showed us in the first tournaments years ago when the skated circles around us. Good rules are. Don Cherry is responsible for the injuries, deaths and humiliations of a growing number of young Canadians. Shame on him.

As a proud Canadian I believe Don Cherry is bringing shame on all of us with his narrow, badly informed and ego-driven opinions. I am offended that the CBC is paying this man one cent. That money should be given to those who experience injuries as a result of his distorted opinions on our nationally funded broadcaster...or any one. Here is one financial cut that could and should be made in these days of cutbacks.

Don Cherry is NOT one of the top ten Canadians of all time. He one of the worst of our time. Shame on him and on CBC for the damage they/you have been doing to the children of Canada. Canada is known for our peaceful social philosophy and bullies like Don Cherry deserve no attention and certainly don't deserve a place in the national media.

Storm troopers are always associated with National Socialism and Adolph Hitler. When I think of Don Cherry's opinions, I think he's encouraging storm trooper behaviour in hockey and threatening the game.

Injuries in hockey put financial pressure on our medicare system, alienate those who will not be violent and it brings shame to us as a nation. We do not want to be characterized as the goons, bullies and thugs that Don Cherry so admires. As they say, "It takes one to know one." He seems to admire the violent and the ignorant in attempts to justify his own failures as a human being and hockey player. Get over it Don and grow up. Retire quickly and gracefully and put a stop to the damage you're doing.

CBC should get rid of this man and find a different opinion. Don McLean is much more stable, sane and respectful, but Cherry has bullied him from the beginning with the consent of the CBC management. Don Cherry reminds me of a drunken alcoholic bully I once knew. Don Cherry helped me stop even watching hockey.

Reverend John Williams
Director - The Canadian Children's Rights Initiative
www.thecanadiandream.blogspot.com

One thing that I think the interviewer ought to have brought to Don Cherry's attention, especially when Cherry complained that Canadians are intent on destroying the one thing that they are good at, is the remarkable revival in international hockey success that Canada has enjoyed since the Nagano debacle in 1998, a resurrection almost entirely attributable to a training and development program that produces not tough-guy grinders, but highly technically skilled finesse players. Yes, we still produce big, strong, hard-hitting players, but as the brilliant performance of Canada’s World Junior Championship team this past January demonstrates, the country best players--PK Subban, Zach Boychuk, Angelo Esposito, Jordan Eberle, and especially of course John Tavares-- are some of the most gifted technically skilled players in the world. Surely even Cherry cannot argue with that success. Looking back on Nagano, as soon as the semi-final game against the Czechs went to a shoot-out, Canadian fans everywhere had that sinking feeling, knowing that we always lose to the Europeans when it comes to the shoot-out. Now, with skill players like Crosby, Tavares, Heatley, and Toews, Canadians know that their skill players are second to none. I think Cherry would have a difficult time convincing Canadian hockey fans that the international games (or NHL Playoff games for that matter) are less exciting or dramatic for the fans because of the absence of fighting.

My jaw dropped when Don Jerry said "We lost a member of our family; Almost. What was he implying? That because the person was not playing in the NHL he wasn't good enough? It's time they change the rules and ban fighting and replace all these dinosaurs in the league. Hockey is getting a bad reputation for it's violence and loosing it's fan base to other sports as a result.

As much of a fan of Don Cherrey's that I am, I am also appalled that he believes that fighting in hockey defines Canada!
On February 20, 2009, my son was the victim of a "sucker punch" that rivals even the McSorley incident for its ugliness. During game 3 of the OMHA playdowns, a rival player attacked my son, Ricky, with his own helmet. After seeing that he was getting a penalty,and that Ricky was skating away, the player grabbed Ricky's face mask, and pulled his helmet clean off his head. In one motion, Ricky's helmet was swung around and brought up into his face, ultimately braking his nose, and knocking him unconscious. As Ricky was falling to the ice, the player then punched him at least 3 more times, and proceeded to two hand Ricky into the juncture of the boards and the ice. Ricky sustained numerous serious injuries, such as a broken nose, lacerated head and face (taking 2 stitches to his face), a concussion, and a broken jaw. Penalties assessed to the other player were HS (2), FI (5), GM30 and AGG37 (2). Ricky was not given any penalties.
We firmly believe that this player was their "enforcer" and that he was sent out to try to start something, or draw a penalty. When we looked back at the game sheets that we had for this team, the number of penalties this player received, and the reasons for these penalties, reinforced this belief. In four previous games with this team, that same player was assessed 27 minutes of penalties, and all but 4 of those minutes were for FI, RO, RAW, and USC.
The ambulance and police were called, and somewhat of an investigation was held. Ricky was taken to the local hospital via ambulance, treated and released. The Officer on duty let us know from the beginning that the Crown Prosecutor would probably not allow charges to be laid, because he was of the mind that there is a certain risk every hockey player takes when he goes out on the ice. Unfortunately, this was exactly the case. The Crown decided not to allow charges for various reasons, such as the fact that it was during a hockey game, and should be dealt with by the league, that the game was not video taped, thus eliminating any doubt as to what really happened, that the player was not given a match penalty, and that he likens this sort of incident to a bar brawl - all it would take is 2 or more people to come forward and say that it happened differently than the 50 plus fans that witnessed it.
My son missed the rest of his last season in our Minor Hockey League, suffered loss of income from missing work, and incurred medical costs. The other player was given a 1 game suspension. We are assured that the league is looking into this matter, but have yet to here any positive outcome, such as not allowing this player to ever play in the minor hockey league again.
Our hearts bleed for the Sanderson family, and we cannot help but feel their pain. We thank god that this incident did not have such a terrible outcome, but we firmly believe that if something is not done soon, more families will lose their young stars. We hope that the NHL will follow the lead of the OHL and adopt the new helmet laws as soon as possible.

Are we watching a hockey game or a street fight?
Don't the players who are so extravagently paid to 'play hockey' have the ability to actually play a skillful game of hockey. Fights don't score goals, they are simply out of control male egos that really do a poor job of representing any hockey team. People who go to hockey games to see a fight need to look very seriously at their lust for witnessing violence.

I would like to thank CBC for bringing this documentary to TV. I am disgusted that such a thing like this even exists. After watching this, I now know that Todd Bertuzzi was never sorry for what he did to Moore. They had put a bounty on his head and he finished his career. I think Todd should be thrown out of the NHL, and Moore should win his court case. I now actually hate Todd Bertuzzi. And this sport needs to go through a serious overhall. This is shameful being Canadians. And Don cherries comments about this is only what Canada is known for is disgusting. I hope we as Canadians will stand up and Ban fighting in hockey.

While I was very happy the Fifth Estate chose to cover this issue, I was disappointed at the weakness of the questioning. I've seen wonderful questioning by Fifth Estate correspondents in the past but this looked to me like cautious questioning because Hockey is the ONLY thing Canadians can look to to define our culture, and so there was a subconscious reluctance to be too hard on it, or on CBC employee Don Cherry (the bastion of the problem).

Don Cherry is employed by the CBC (quite frankly, he is an embarrassment to me as a Canadian), so is that why he was not questioned aggressively? (then again no one was). What he espouses is what should have been examined in the program. Don Cherry epitomizes all that is wrong with this country as far as I am concerned. He is the type of simple-minded fool that would only have a voice on TV in a small market....it's quite embarrassing. Is Don Cherry all our country can produce? Shocking if the answer is yes. Don McClean is the one who got chopped by CBC a few years ago until the public protested while that gas bag Cherry has never worried about his job. This relates to hockey violence: Why is it that an aggressive SOB who NEVER even looks at Don McClean while he's talking is tolerated while a guy who tries to analyze the game is terminated (until fans got involved)? Dominating personalities are what's wrong with the world and always have been. Why is it in Canada, a peaceful nation, that we not only tolerate them but adore them (even if in a love-hate kind of way)? When will this end? What is it in out culture that admires this? This has everything to do with hockey violence. We admire the enforcer. We need it.

Hockey violence is a cultural issue, played out on the streets of Canadian cities every Friday and Saturday night after the bars close down. I felt the piece never got into the cultural issue about why it is Canadians love to watch other people fight rather than themselves, and so the program only touched the surface. The question is: Why do Canadian fans (and some Americans) of hockey love the fighting so much, so much more than goals, when two guys go at it rather than going at it themselves? Why this love of fighting vicariously?

In Europe and South America the fans fight but here the players fight. Here the fans laugh at the fans of Football for fighting while defending their love of the players (who make an immense salary) fighting. This makes no sense to me. Why would anyone with aggression want someone else to get out their aggression? Someone who you are paying large sums of money to entertain you. At least in Football the talent is on the playing surface and so those who don't like fighting never have to deal with it.

Ah, there is so much to say since I feel this is a wide-ranging issue, but to keep it short there is a passive aggressive nature in Canadian culture that makes fighting in our national sport inevitable until the culture changes. But...it will mean the sport will never be taken seriously anywhere since no other culture can entertain the idea that a professional team sport has fighting as an integral part of its fabric. Canadians like others to fight their battles them while in most cultures people like or expect to fight their own battles. That's the bottom line. I'd like to see the Fifth Estate pick up that question. Now that's a tricky one for journalists, isn't it?....requires a lot of work to look at that. Well, I think that's what this investigation should have been looking at. Journalism should be about getting to the core. As Canadians, afetr 142 years of being a country, are we ready to start looking at ourselves up close, asking the real questions, digging deep, so that we might actually become a culture, instead of a dominion of 100 solitudes as Michele Jean so aptly described us as? Let's move on from the simple English-French fight and the simplemindedness of Don Cherry, to deal with Canada as it truely is, and how we want it to be. Let's move on from the Beerhall-violent hockey of the past and into a new era of fast, exciting, pass-oriented hockey....something we can be proud to show the world as a skill, and more importantly, something more exciting for us. Let's ditch the old hockey elite, people like:________(you fill in the blank) Isn't it time in our culture's development that we move past their thinking and influence? Dinosaurs are gone, shouldn't all those that can't adapt be gone? This is coming from a die hard fan of the Broad Street Bullies....Schultz, MacLeish, Clarke, Leach, Parent, Dornhoefer, Barber, Crisp....the fighting Flyers. I came to realize a new vision of our culture...how about you?, something beyond yabbo culture?...you know, gettin drunk at the bar, eh, and wantin to fist somebody. Pro Sports should be something different. But will it ever be in Canada when so many are fisting it outside/inside the bar every night. What's the chicken and what's the egg in Canada? Is hockey violent because Canadians are? (outside the yuppie elite world CBC people operate in) or are Canadians violent, albeit passively so and when they're drunk, because hockey is?

Please, Fifth Estate, get into the core of issues as you have done in the past. Avoid the temptation of those media whores down south like 20/20 and Nightline. Canadians will not watch you if you go down that road. Also, please try to investigate what it is about Canadain culture that embraces hockey violence while we presume to be so tolerant, peaceful, accepting, easy-going yada yada yada...we all know the cliches about Canadians. Let's have an investigation into the cliiches.

Yeah, all this comes from a love of my Country. If I didn't Love it I wouldn't spend so much time on it as I do. Let's all spend some time on it.

I watched your episode the code with mixed views of both sides of the fight no fight debate. I have played, coached, taught skating, power skating and watched hockey for about forty years. I’ve had the obligation of enforcer for the team. I guess I grew up in a time were it was frontier justice. Now I’m talking minor hockey here. I’ve been cross checked it the head so hard it split my helmet and broke his stick which ended with me spending the night in the hospital with a concussion. The player received two minutes for cross checking with little or no worry of retaliation as we only had the one enforcer. Thus the need for at least two enforcers per team. In another instance I was cross checked in the back of the neck while retrieving a puck from behind the net (by a player who had done the exact same thing twice earlier in the game) with the ref just a couple of feet away. I turned asked the ref if he was going to call it he said “no” so I proceeded in frontier justice by fighting the player for I and only I received a penalty. Let me tell you not only the refing but the other team smartened up too. An example of not having an enforcer is a game I missed in which three players form the other team ganged up on one of our players with the ref’s not doing anything. Had I been at that game or another enforcer the player who was jumped may have played again as it was he never did play again. These are all minor hockey occurrences and their was many more. As a coach would not allow my players to play dirty but I insisted that they stand up for one another when their was cheap shots on their team mates. A two or five minute penalty won’t deter a player from doing it again. I’ve seen to many players playing days ended due to cheap shots rather from fights. I in fact will never play again due to a cheap shot that broke my leg and dislocated my ankle while playing NON CONTACT hockey in my last shift of the season and our team down by four goals. What was the need or more to point what was the deterrent for this action to these two players? I can tell you nothing. Another incident that comes to mind from NON CONTACT hockey we had a player over fifty absolutely crushed by a young buck on the other team. I who at the time was 270lbs (305lbs on the ice) skated over to their bench and told them if they wanted to play contact hockey I would play contact hockey. No fight was necessary as the other team elected to send their player to the dressing room for the remainder on the game which went on without incident. Would it have been that way had I not done what I had done? I don’t think so.

So do I think there is a need for an enforcer or fighting I would say yes unfortunately. The only place I didn’t see cheap shots or fights was in street hockey. I guess that’s because there is no protective gear worn. So I guess if you want to eliminate fighting and cheap shots in hockey take off the gladiator outfits players wear today. Trust me that would do it and it would definitely change the game as would just removing fighting from the game. For the better I think not.

Honestly I have played hockey my entire life, and fighting is apart of the game. For those of you who think there should be harsher penalty minutes for a fight, answer this, have you ever played a game of full contact hockey, when your adrenaline gets pumping and your emotions affect your play. Hockey is an emotional game, period. If you disagree with this statement, then you have never played a competitive game. Don Cherry makes excellent points within this show, a true statement is that if fighting is taken out, stick infractions will be increased. And what have we seen within the past decade as the enforcer rule has been used, a steady increase in harsh stick infractions. Sure things happen, as with any sport, accidents happen, Don't bash a game, forcing your opinion on to people, in which you know nothing about. This game and these rules have worked for decades, and now in this generation there is more exposure to these games because everyone has a camera. Don't try and fix something that isn't broken to begin with.

Let's throw a stat out there for all of the bleeding hearts. More hockey players have died as a result of slap-shots than as a result of a fight. Why then is there no discussion whatsoever on whether or not to ban the slap-shot? Statistically speaking, players are more likely to die from getting hit by a puck, or being cut by a skate than they are from fighting. Plain and simple.

I do not want to take away from the tragedy of Don Sanderson's death, but every time players step on the ice, they do so accepting the risks associated with the game. I have played hockey all of my life, and I have always accepted the risks, knowing it was part of the sport. If I was not willing to accept the risks, I would have found a different sport.

Lets also not forget that fights occur in both professional lacrosse, and rugby. Yet you don't hear too much complaining from the supporters of those sports. No one here has a problem with boxing, because throwing punches is part of the sport. Same as it is in hockey. Fighting serves to help police the game, and to generate excitement. It is amazing how a good fight can totally swing the momentum of the game.

Fighting is a part of the game. Period. Same as hitting is a part of football, and the bean ball is a part of baseball.

I am a martial art instructor. Though I am against fighting at all costs for the sake of fighting, I do believe in SELF-PROTECTION. However, if fighting is and is to continue to be a fact of hockey, then someone should teach these players to use an open hand rather than a closed fist (to save their hands from breaking). But more importantly, someone should teach these people how TO FALL properly (known in martial arts as "breakfalls"), so they don't hit their heads on the ice and die.

Mike Legare Sensei of Can-Ryu Jiu-jitsu
Arctic Martial Arts
780-927-4836

I don't watch hockey, but caught a nice segment the other night. It was during overtime play and nobody had time to play dirty or to fight.

It was a decision to play clean. If they can do so during overtime, then they can do it any time.

The NHL should increase penalties for fighting and for playing dirty.

I caught Don Cherry's comments regarding hockey fights, he certainly supports them . He went to the funeral of that young player that died as a result of a hockey fight. With his support of fighting in hockey I guess he plans on attending more funerals and as he offers his condolences to the bereaved family members they will be aware that he is one of the reasons that that kind of thing is continuing. I read another individuals comparison regarding fighting in sport, their question was-What about boxing, it's way more dangerous? Well that's because in boxing the name of the game IS fighting, the name of the game in hockey is to score goals to win. As far as I am aware, fighting in hockey is against the rules. And this statement that fighting prevents more serious injury is ludicrous. from what I've seen these fights are starting to look more like the WWE, staged to add interest and excitement for the fans, as I think hockey maybe starting to lose some of its popularity. Most of these fights in comparison to a real fight are quite lame. Why do I state that? Because they remove their helmets which would afford them protection and maybe deter any fight erupting, they have at their disposal two skates, a stick as well as the helmet that could all be used as weapons. In a real fight anything becomes a striking implement, on the ice they supposedly don't want to hurt each other because of the code. If that's true. Then, why fight to begin with? When a player does get injured the punishment, if there is to be any, is not even close to matching the severity of the violation. The solution to this problem is simple, any players fight, suspend them from the game. A second offence and they are out for the rest of the season with no pay, because they are supposed to play hockey not break the rules. Finally if they want to fight, bench them to the end of the game and let them go at it afterwards, with no refs on the ice. It would be interesting to see how many fans remained.
Fighting should stop, it's finding its way in the ranks of minor hockey and these kids want to emulate their hockey idols. If they want to present themselves as role models, then play by the rules and demonstrate responsible conduct to our youth, so more of them don't suffer injuries or death.

A very interesting program, but I think that the writers and producers were somehow taken in by this idea of “The Code”, which if it even exists, is not followed religiously. People like Cherry drag it out to give fighting in hockey some semblance of legitimacy, but frankly I think that it’s some big joke on the rest of us. Also, while I understand that Sanderson’s death was a tragedy, and that the experiences of Kypreos are definitely saddening, I don’t think that the program spent enough time on interviews with proponents of banning fighting or trying to make it safer. While seeing Bob McCown interviewed was great, I would like to have seen an interview with David Branch, as well as Pierre McGuire or Bob McKenzie. Also, sometimes the show did not really go into enough depth with regards to the actual official rules and statistics regarding fighting (as opposed to “The Code”). For example, the show briefly mentioned the Instigator rule so despised by Cherry, but didn’t really explain that its detractors argue (rather counter-intuitively) that it actually makes hockey more dangerous. An inquiry to McKenzie would have informed the writers that this year, the rule is applied to only about 5% of fights, pretty much negating the arguments against it.

I agree that the argument that fighting somehow prevents violence is without merit, and that this defence for fighting is the one that needs to be debunked the most. I believe (though I don’t have the statistics to back it up) that many of the particularly brutal hits/stick fouls that Cherry et al believe fighting deters are committed by those who also engage in fighting. For example, just recently, Minnesota Wild goon Derek Boogaard was suspended for five games after elbowing a Calgary player in the head (I believe it was Brandon Prust, now with Phoenix after the Jokinen deal). For another example, consider the two suspensions given to Leafs goon/enforcer Ryan Hollweg early this season. One was for 2 games, the other three. I have to admit that fighters like Hollweg are indeed tough, but I think that this toughness prevents fighting from deterring the Hollwegs of the world from hitting from behind etc. After all, when you’re a goon, getting your teeth knocked out and your face cut is as much a part of your job description as knocking the other guy’s teeth out and cutting his face. So, why would it matter to Ryan Hollweg if he has to fight after a dirty hit? It’s what he’s paid for, so the threat of violence does not deter him.

Some, like Cherry, would possibly argue that even if goons like Hollweg are not deterred by fighting, other “softer” (this is Cherry talk for European) players are still deterred by the threat of being punched up by a good old Canadian boy sticking up for his team-mate. The best counterexample I can think of for this involves the incident last year between the Vancouver Canucks and Minnesota Wild. Normally peaceful Canucks defensemen Mattias Ohlund delivered a particularly brutal slash to the ankle of Wild forward Mikko Koivu. This was in retaliation for Koivu’s alleged elbow to Ohlund, as well as another alleged dirty hit by Wild winger Marian Gaborik earlier (neither was deemed a penalty by the officials, though footage on youtube of the slashing includes Koivu’s alleged elbow if you want to judge for yourself). As a result, Ohlund was suspended for four games (Koivu missed 24 with a broken leg). Consider the fact that NHL heavyweight Derek Boogard was a teammate of Koivu. Boogard (6 ft 8 and over 250 pounds) is arguably the most terrifying goon in the NHL, yet this in no way deterred Ohlund from slashing Koivu. While I don’t know if Boogaard was dressed for that particular game, the fact that the Canucks and Wild are in the same division meant that there would have been ample opportunity in later games. Yet, after consulting hockeyfights.com, it would appear that Boogaard and Ohlund have never fought since the incident. According to proponents of fighting, this is exactly the sort of incident that “The Code” is supposed to deter, and failing that, address. Ohlund took liberties with one of Minnesota’s skilled players, so apparently the idea of being pummelled by Boogaard was no deterrent. Further, after the incident, according to “The Code”, Ohlund should have been made to “Pay the Price” by at least someone on the Minnesota roster. And yet, according hockeyfights.com, Ohlund has never fought any member of the Minnesota Wild during his career. If anyone should understand the complexities and nuances of “The Code”, it should be Boogaard, a person who does nothing but fight and take other penalties (For those that are interested, in 194 regular season NHL games, Boogard has accumulated just 10 points and 437 penalty minutes, though his recent suspension is his only one). To me, this would seem to demonstrate that “The Code” is some abstract, ill-defined ideal that floats around certain hockey circles, and if it even exists, it is probably rarely followed.

Eh, Sansui....

Sansui out of Michigan. Y'all need to know your facts. Don Cherry played one game in the NHL, Boston Bruins 1954/'55. The rest of his career was in the bush league/lunch bucket/ genre of hockey pre expansion. Not to mention the guy has a vested interest in cement head hockey, "Rock'em/Sock 'em" videos. So, one game in the NHL does not make him A/THE spokesman for hockey. Yes, I have taken a "cheap shot" and I have taken "cheap shots" which I'm not to proud of as I look back. Yes, I have had a couple of serious injuries but still play the game as I'm sure a number of contributors to this topic have had as well. Believe it or not the game is a game of skill including clean/legal body checking. Cheap shot players need to be culled and the officials need, as I said before, show some balls and make the call. Bob McCowan needs to be congratulated for taking a stand. Especially in light of his position on TSN and the neanderthal chirpers and beakers about "The Code". I'm not for fighting. I offered a solution to bring it under control. What have you contributed?
Regards
A Thousand Rats

They just don't get it. Brian Murray is just now quoted, at the GM general meetings in Naples, Fla:"I think the whole issue is the helmets" and Brian Burke: "We have to look at the mechanics of fighting....Is there a way to make it safer". What! At least he has the self-awareness to admit: "....this may sound really silly....". Yes Mr.Burke it does and is.

It is extremely simple, don't take fighting out of hockey, take the fighters out of the game - automatic game misconduct and suspension from the next meeting of the same teams,no exception for playoffs, seasons, whatever. Amen

I live in Europe and I'm not as familiar with Don Cherry as many Canadians are, but the few times that I have heard him talk about hockey in Coach's Corner (which I saw on a European sports channel that shows NHL games) he failed to impress me. Having heard him passionately defend the fighting that takes place during hockey games in The Fifth Estate documentary entitled The Code, this has changed. He has most definitely left an impression on me now, but it is not a positive one. While I too am certain there are a fair amount of people who like to see hockey players fight each other in the rink, I don't think fighting should have a place in hockey. In my opinion it erodes the game. I view fighting in hockey in the same way that I view fighting that takes place off the ice. It is something that people resort to when they're incapable of interacting with others in a normal fashion. If a hockey player cannot get by on talent and skill than perhaps that player doesn't deserve to be part of a professional hockey team.

In the documentary "The Code" I repeatedly heard the claim that hockey players have to fight to protect themselves from being hurt by sticks or the blades of hockey-skates, but bandy players carry sticks and have sharp blades under their skates just like hockey players do and yet there are very few fights during bandy matches (I have yet to witness a fight during a bandy match). When a bandy player does something illegal (e.g. hitting, pushing, kicking, or sticking another player) he or she receives a blue card and - depending on the severity of the foul - is sent of the ice for five or ten minutes. A third foul results in a red card and a player who gets this card has to leave the game. These rules work very well because they're strictly enforced. If hockey players would get penalized whenever they use their equipment or bodies in an illegal fashion and these penalties would properly reflect the nature of the fouls it is likely that illegal moves and fighting would occur much less frequently than they do now.

We're all making a lot of wild claims as to what fighting does/doesn't accomplish. We really do need to look at the statistics over the years, and compare them to other sports. Every sport has a potential for unsportsmanlike violence; be it a fastball to the head in baseball, leading with the helmet in football, or tackling with the spikes up in soccer. All of these things can cause career-ending injuries. If guys like Cherry want to make the argument that fighting prevents more of that, fine. But, he's gotta back that up with actual NUMBERS. And if there is no cheap-shot statistic yet, we better start counting.

Every sport has a code.
Baseball has a code even though it is a calm and quite sport. A pitch will throw a 90 mile/hr fast ball at you if he wants to and I have seen it happen. Yes, you can die if he hit you at the wrong spots.

Fight is a way to police "cheap shots" from happening on the ice. If I know I have to answer to a 250 lb guy when I throw a dirty hit, I will think twice before I do it. If there is no cheap shots in hockey, there will be no fighting. Take those out, you will root out fighting.

I think those who opposed fighting, never took a devastating cheap shot on the ice, like head first into the board or spear into the gut. You know what, try it and see how it feels. I can assure you, you will rip that guy head off even though he will be assessed a match penalty and throw out of the game.

Bob McCown is an IDIOT. He never coach in the NHL. He is not even a former GM. Why are people listening to him? It is like listening to creationist about science and evolution. He is all talk and no substance. He is not even a former NHL player. At least Don Cherry has NHL experience to back him up.

I understand and support standing up for a team mate", but not in the form of a hockey fight. I think this form of protection and enforcement has passed. I think the answer may lay in another root of the game...the body check. I have two young boys in hockey and would never support or encourage them to fight. If they feel the need to change the momentum of a game or stick up for a team mate I encourage a legal body check...and repeat if necessary. I believe this is the true essence of the game...played hard, fast and with respect. I think body checking is a lost art in the NHL today, a few players can and do.... but for the most part it is a legal option rarely used. I would also challenge that it takes far more skating skill and timing to hit a player with your body at the speed the game is played.

Bring back the big hit and ban fighting...and while you’re at it make visors mandatory

I am still thinking about this show...very well done. I am a proud Canadian and a hockey fan for most of my life. What is wrong with us that we condone such behaviour "for the love of a game"? We are quick to have distaste for players like Bertuzzi and McSorley who appear to have no self control. What about some accountability from the coaches along the way who taught them this "code"? Having a son who recently played junior hockey in Canada, this behaviour is condoned, expected, taught, encouraged and the only way for some players to find any sort of way of getting any icetime during a season. Disgusting. For the record, I don't knit or watch ballet, but it's time for "men" like Don Cherry to grow up, act like a real men and take a good hard look at the damage that is being caused in rinks around the country.They are quick to use words like "character". With "codes" like these being actively taught, whose character should be in question?

Eh, Disgruntled Hockey Fan.....

Read my lips.
A Thousand Rats

The NHL cannot listen to people like you guys who have never played or watched hockey or you live in your own fantasy world. Fighting is part of hockey. The NHL already listened to you morons and it ruined hockey. As soon as hockey made the rules more strict, ratings went down and it ruined hockey. Why don't you guys go complain about boxing? It's WAYYYYYYY more dangerous than hockey.

This is directed to Andrew Herlihey out of Toronto and his ilk. I play hockey for recreation today,I played at a very high level in my younger days pre expansion, and now coach minor hockey. The game is about skill; skating, passing, shooting, dekeing, scoring and how to avoid/protect yourself from a legal body check. It's not about fighting nor should it be. Can we eliminate it? I'm not sure. If it is to be then everyone must buy in; owners, gm's(especially burke), players, the PA and the NHL executive's, and finally the officials need to show some balls and call the penalties. I thought the play of the game immediately after the lock out was some of the best in years. Yes, the officials called it close but the game was fast, clean and very little fighting. If you want fighting tune into UFC. It's no wonder parents are reluctant to get their kids into the game. Hockey needs to rethink their culture and attitude. That's my opinion.

I hate the argument that fighting is part of the game. Bull!! At one time fighters were banished jsut like iun any other high intensity sport. Don Cherry advocates fighting because he is a member of the lowest common denominator and if I could take him off the public purse I would.

I played hockey as a kid and loved it. It's fast and exciting and it should be all about the skating, puck skill, and the team. But when a goon like Bertuzzi can end a guy's career with a premeditated mugging and then end up on the Olympic team a couple of years later there's something very wrong with the sport.

I took my family to a minor hockey game a couple of months ago. Not ten minutes into the game a fight broke out. The thing that really bothered me wasn't the fight so much as the way the fight was promoted: the Rocky theme music, the spotlight on the fighters, and the announcer glorifying the fight. How do I explain this to my kids? Fighting in hockey is good, fighting in school is bad? If I can't explain the logic of something (like fighting in hockey) to my kids then I don't want it to be a part of their lives.

Now I have two impressionable grandsons who sit on my knee. Why should I have to exlpain to them why people are beating one another up?

1. Two of my all time favourite players (if not THE two) are Davey Keon and Mike Bossy; the former excelled through grit, determination and natural leadership, while the latter succeeded through great talent and hard work (Bossy is still deemed by some to be the greatest natural goal scorer to have ever played). While Keon has divorced himself from most things hockey, Bossy seems happy to share his opinion about fighting though he wasn't included in this program. Both are recipients of the Lady Byng and Conn Smythe awards, which surely says something about the relationship between "gentlemanly" play and absolute (NHL) success.

2. The best hockey played year-in and year-out remains the annual world junior championship. The degree of skill and toughness on display is an ongoing spectacle of what's possible. There are still cheap hits and stupid penalties, and usually a few "goon" type players mainly responsible for these, but no fighting. You fight, you're out. Best hockey in the world, no fighting.

3. The tired, stale, and utterly cliché argument that those who oppose fighting "don't understand" the game, or "never played", or are [insert rude epithet], or even "un-Canadian" (a Cherry favourite and one more reason to call for his censure), are purely the reaction of stunted intellect. You don't "love hockey", or just hockey, you love Violence. The hits and the grinding are insufficient to sate your bloodlust, so you attempt to rationalize your position via tropes like "The Code". It's as sad as it is terribly predictable. Go and pay for UFC/MMA bloodsport or back alley bum fights or whatever it takes to satisfy your reptile urges and leave the game to those who would see it played at the highest (possible) level of skill.

Come Bettman, Cherry, Burke
Please heed the call
Don't stand on your soap box
Don't block the call
for he that gets hurt
will be he who was stalled
There's a battle outside
and it's ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
and rattle your walls
for the times they are a-changin'
A little spin from Bob Dylan. The only thing "sissyfied"/"pansyfied" is the attitude of some of the over the hill wish I could have done better color commentators and GM's.
Let's just say for the discussion we can not eliminate fighting from hockey. Then let's make it very expensive if you're gonna fight. I don't mean monetary.
Instigator gets ten minutes and serves all ten while his team plays shorthanded for the duration even if the other team scores. If the one attacked wants to accommodate then he he gets five or ten at the discretion of the official. Same applies for his team, they play shorthanded. Think what four on four would be like on our tiny NA rinks. AWESOME! Or do it the way the Olympics do it. Your out. Period. Maybe even out for three plus games. Hearing Cherry, chirping about "boring" hockey because they actually have to skate, deke and avoid a hit is like listening to someone scratching on a blackboard. It's time for him to seek another career. Might as well include Milbury in the mix as well.

Okay, for all you folks that oppose fighting in hockey, obviously you've never played the game so you're already at a disadvantage. I'll just keep this short by saying that you have a higher chance of dying in your car driving to a hockey game then dying during a fight in a hockey game! I agree with Mike Benninger near the top in that there are so many things that could of happened where Don wouldn't have sustained the injury he did, and don't get me wrong, it is a deeply saddening thing that happened to what seems like a great kid and my sincere condolences go out to his family, but nonetheless, it was the fall that did it. Being Canadians, we should know that you can fall and seriously hurt yourself anytime during our long winter walking down the sidewalk! If you take away fighting in hockey, why not put a speed limit on car racing so there a much lower risk of big crashes that can kill drivers!

I still don't understand why law enforcement is not enforcing the law? assault is assault

Your show provoked a lot of disucssion in our house. I would have liked to have heard another player weigh in on the topic of fighting - say Hailey Wickenheiser...
Women's hockey doesn't hav the same 'code', nor does Olympic play - so why not forbid it outright?
It also would have been intereting to hear about the unspoken 'code' among hockey marketers who know the fans want to see fighting with their hockey?

two words... mandatory visors.

I saw your program last night on CBC concerning fighting and Hockey.
I came to Canada in 1967 and became quite enthousiastic about watching the game. Knew all the players and numbers of the Maple Leafs within a few months while living in Stratford. I had been disturbed by fighting, which, to my feeling interrupts the real action and displays disgusting violance, let alone the danger to the physical and mental health of the people involved. Some time in 1972 I was watching a game between the Boston Bruins and the Canadians, which erupted in a violent general brawl. For me that did it. I closed the TV and have hardly watched a game ever since and I am not the only one. That is why people that appreciate the fighting have become the majority of the fans Mr Cherry! I remember the time that fighting in soccer used to be common between players, but somewhere in the sixties or seventies they put an end to that with the yellow and red card system and since then it is a lot more pleasant to watch soccer uninterrupted by violence.

Fighting in hockey has absolutely no place. Maybe if there were more skilled players in the league people who feel that it is crucial to the game would not miss it so much. Fighting doesn't control dirty play that so many claim because dirty players have and always will use their sticks, hit from behind, elbow to the head and so on. Does anyone remember the stick incidents with Maurice Richard in the 50's or the time Gordie Howe put his stick through Lou Fontinato's mouth. Or, how about the time Chico Maki hit Ted Green square over the head. Rather than allow fighting in this false belief that it will curb dirty play why doesn't the league just punish the dirty players more severely by suspending them or at least increasing the time of the penalty. Trying to solve one wrong with another makes absolutely no sense.

It is nonsense saying that fighting is necessary to relieve tensions. Fighting occurs in football, basketball, baseball etc. but is punished by expulsion from the game. Sports engenders self discipline, a lesson learned at the expense, of neophytes and teamates. At a recent world cup of soccer, the French captain Zidane head butted an Italian opponent who was verbally insulting him. Consequently, Zidane was red carded. France then lost! We all fight when children, but our elders enlighten us that this is an unacceptable solution in adult situations.Fighting should be outlawed in hockey. Sooner the better.

It discourages men from exhibiting self-control and is a bad example for impressive youngsters who emulating their heroes (contributes to youth violence).
If they were to levy a stiff fine every time an offense occurred (with a maximum of 3 offenses before being expelled for the season, without pay) the fighting would stop pronto and skill would be the source of excitement for the viewers.

An excellent program, great coverage. I am also very concerned about the fighting in hockey. I really want my son to join when he is old enough, but I can't have him in it in the sports current state. Head injuries are not "okay"....ever.

The setpiece goon fighting is the key reason I stopped watching hockey years ago and to hear such asinine comments by idiots like Burke and Cherry makes my position all the more clear.

Fighting could be gone tomorrow if the will existed to get it out ofthe game, but clearly they don't. Now the skilled players come from Europe and the US, but the fighters, these are Canadian...boy that sure makes me want to wrap myself up in the flag.

What I found kind of annoying about the debate was that nobody mentioned the fact that Sanderson died because his helmet came off and he hit it against the ice. He did not die because of the fight! If the helmet didn't come off there would be no death, also, if he didn't fall there would be no death. So, of course, if there was no fight there would be no death but it WASN'T the fight that killed him it was hitting his bare head on the ice, something that can happen in the course of ANY game fighting or not! The anti-fighting proponents took this tragedy and co-opted it for their own agenda, for shame. NO ONE HAS STILL EVER DIED FROM A FIGHT!!!
Also, the code doesn't include hitting someone in the head with a stick and that's how the show was introduced (Simon hitting Hollweg.) They even showed the McSorley stick-hit on Brashear as if those heinous acts were the result of fighting. This caused some confusion and misunderstanding of the code among the uninitiated. I am not crazy about the writers or the formulation of the debate.
Brian Burke is one of the smartest guys in hockey. When he speaks, everyone listens. His point is the same as Cherry's and many others on that side of the debate and as people who've been intimately involved with the sport for so long, they know what they're talking about. Fighting to eliminate cheap shots is something that I have experienced just as I've experienced the extra courage that comes with being more protected by wearing more equipment. As Cherry says, when you're moving at such a hyper speed with steel blades on your feet and a club in your hand, wearing armour and in the passion of contact competitive sport, players may lose their cool from time to time. When considering commiting a state-of-nature type of violent act, the threat of severe primal punishment like getting your butt kicked is more tangible and thus a more effective deterrent than some cooling-off, sit-for-awhile, penalty. The sad thing is that there are much more dangerous events in hockey that should be looked at (like icing) but anti-fighting folks don't seem to care about these, brushing them off as mere accidents.

Excellent program! I played hockey growing up and was always a huge fan. A few years ago, I stopped watching hockey because of the stupid violence and "code" that people like Don Cherry attempt to justify. I will never watch another game until the NHL cleans up it's act and gets rids of their ridiculous justification for violence. Sadly, Don Sanderson will probably not be the last young man to lose his life fot the so called`code

Even if fighting is an essential, crowd thrilling aspect of pro hockey that is endorsed by all the constituents as claimed by Burke, Cherry and the like; then the NHL has proven itself ineffective at managing even that part of the game. Do they really want to grow their sport in U.S. and world markets or are they simply struggling to hang on to less than significant market share and TV ratings in the U.S? As a hockey fan, who was encouraged by the rule changes that opened up the game to the skilled player after the lock out, I am tired of turning on the game or going to Junior games only to have the Ultimate Fight Club on skates show up! I was appalled a couple of years ago when it became the habit of fighters to "flip the lids" before each of these contrived fights that were happening off opening face offs or first shifts into the game. To me, it was only a matter of time before the unthinkable happened.
Between Don Sanderson's accident in December and his death in January, we watched the World's most skilled Juniors compete, fight free, in Ottawa. It was exciting, tenacious and had all the elements that we enjoy in hockey as Canadians. Oh yeah, Mr. Burke, no one went home in a wheel chair either.
If rugby can ban fighting, if no other hockey federation in the world has adopted the goon element of fighting and if there is no really effective way to "manage" fighting in order to prevent another death; then maybe we too can do without it in North America.

Kudos to Mr. McKeown for his clever and subtle interviewing tactics. At first, I was puzzled that he wasn't more aggressive with the usual boring, staunch advocates of keeping fighting in the game.. Then it dawned on me! He was quietly allowing these pugilistic neanderthals to slowly hang themselves. And they did. It was a thing of sheer beauty.

L. Ryan

Hockey is fast , fun and exciting. The skating, puck handling and passing skills of players at all levels contribute to one of the best games people can participate in and watch.

I support hockey at all levels except the NHL. 1997 was the turning point for me. The way the Detroit Red Wings won their cups turned me off of NHL hockey. The NHL racks up 900 fights in the 2007/2008 season (up 40%), 1000 + this season... increasing the risks of concussions and exposing children to more violence which children mimic in their games.

The NHL influences hockey culture to the youngest players and to the beer leagues.

Under Burke's watch, McSorley and Bertuzzi took the game to a whole different level where there were potentially career ending hits, and the two incidents ended two careers in the end.

People like Brian Burke are a detriment to the sport. The NHL is losing the trust of hockey fans. Parents, spouses, coaches in minor hockey are all concerned about the increased risk of concussions as kids mimic the NHL fights, and some adults encourage their kids to fight. These fight put an end to recreational hockey careers when the kids get concussions. Kids who could be playing the sport for years into adulthood find themselves unable to particpate because of head injuries. There is no reason to increase the risk of concussions or brain damage by encouraging fighting in minor hockey or beer leagues.

It seems to me that the answer to hockey violence is obvious - simply apply the law!

Where else in society do we allow assaults to be carried out with impunity!

If a hockey player attacks another player, local police should charge him with assault. If a hockey player kills another player, he should be charged with either manslaughter or second degree murder. Period!

Good program!
I oppose fighting in hockey. As for those who say we don't understand the game, that fighting is "part of the game", then why did the people who wrote the rules not want fighting? Presumeably that is why there is a more severe penalty for same. Are they also suggesting the other violations (high sticking,hitting from behind,etc.) are okay, for they too, are "part of the game"?

Mr.Cherry's comment re: "where were the polls done showing a majority are against fighting"; he says if not at the rink,then they can be dismissed.The truth is that all folks can have a say in this matter. Firstly, because they live here and can have an opinion about anything. Secondly, they may not be able to afford tickets to go to a game but watch hockey on television. Thirdly, they may have paid taxes to some level of government who kicked in a few million dollars to build and maintain a hockey arena.

As for his other comment,"I don't care what others think" says much. Does this statement apply to the taxpayers who pay for his commentary on Hockey Night In Canada? We are not separate from one another and whatever is done to one on the ice is done to us all.

I have attempted to address this subculture locally and am waiting for a reply from those who support fighting to give me their explanation they would give to a young person in the stands who may question why fighting is not only tolerated but encouraged. In an OHL game recently, I heard children 7-8 years of age screaming for a fight; at a Midget AAA game, a woman was yelling at a young player, who was refusing to fight despite having his helmet yanked off and being punched in the head, to quit being a wimp, be a man and fight.

When I was young kid I became excited when a fight broke out (have been watching for about 55 years and have seen my share of "tough guys").

Today I have an antipathy for this "part of the game". It sickens me to see, is so senseless and appeals to our lowest abasement.

Give me a clean game with speed,skill and respect for one another; try to elevate the game not drag it down.

An aside for Mr.Cherry: Canada is known around the world for many other more constructive contributions than this violence in hockey.

Terry (Lemieux)

I watched your show this evening and I think it's a sad situation when you and other groups are trying to make a martyr out of Don Sanderson's death. It's very sad what happened to Don but it was a one in a million happening, when you take in consideration all the fights in hockey sense it's inception. There were more hockey players killed by getting hit in the chest with the puck, I don't see everyone trying to ban the puck. Simply put the only things got to come out of hockey is cheap shots and stick work, not fighting. As for all hockey fighters are goons, tell that to Jarome Iginla, Sidney Crosby, Mario Lemioux and many more good hockey players and yes even Wayne Gretzky fought and why because of the rules they have in hockey today,it gets to the point were they have to pick up for themselves. When two players drop the gloves they know what could happen and most times it's only pride that gets hurt.

Ok first Nick Kypreos did not speak out against fighting. He was asked if he would endorse his son to do the same as he did. His words were " I don't want to be a hypocrite".

I like good hockey, goals, hits, excellent plays and yes I do like watching a spirited fight. I think these days the the quality of the HNL has gone down. I feel that with expantion ( Phoenix,Carolina,Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Nashville,Columbas,Florida) places were they don't sell out their area even with a winning team. What this all has to do with fighting is that with all these expansions more players are needed to fill the rosters. This means that more sub-par at best players are now playing in the NHL. Players who 15 years ago wouldn't be able to get in because they were not good enough are now in. Fighting unfortunatley these days is to keep these Jackasses in line.

There are "Fighters" who have done dumb things on the ice. Bertuzzi in my opinion should not have been allowed to play again. McSorley ( who I think did a good job protecting Wayne) got what he deserved.

There are guys like Sean Avery, Jarkko Ruttu, Jordan Tootoo ( Just to name a few) are notorious for being dirty. Hitting from behid, High sticks, elbows to the heads. How many people remember Sean Avery standing in front of Bordeur during the playoffs waving his stick in front of his face? Avery had his back to the play, the first person in a Devils jersey who saw this should have grabbed Avery and decked him. Why? Mostley for being an idiot but for making a mockery of the sport.

Fighting has to keep people accountable for thier actions. If you know that you can't get away with stuff, that you may have to face somebody bigger than you and take a beating than they will think twice about doing it. The instigator rule has made that impossible. Getting an instigator gets you tossed from the game, an automatic suspension and your team goes on the penalty kill. The NHL commish Gary "The Dingbat" Bettman had driven our sport into the ground. Area's of the game that need to be looked at, infraction cracked down on, rules enforced have been overlooked or down right done nothing by Bettman and company.

The NHL needs to crack down on thes things ( they've been craking down on elbowing, hitting from behind lately) get rid of the instigator penalty than I think fighting will go down.

Kypreos is right when he says that if they want to get rid of fighting than get rid of it. I can't say I'll cry a whole lot if that happened but they need to get rid of the idiocy and enforce the rules that are already there to make any difference in the game.

So, 60% of the Canadian population do not like the fights during hockey games. I am part of this population. A sport with true sportsmanship includes no ‘hits below the belt’. it is barbaric, savage, and primitive; it has nothing to do with any sport whatsoever. I would watch every hockey game, were it not for the fights. No other fast sport such as football of soccer tolerates such low action. Don Cherry needs to enquire what percentage of the 60% of individuals who dislike fights would actually watch hockey, were fights not tolerated.
HSR

Thanks for producing the program on hockey violence. It is time that this issue is addressed. Why can fights occur in a hockey game and not be a criminal code offense? What kind of example does this set for our community? Hockey fights are simply teaching us that it is alright to settle conflict through aggression. Is this what we want for our civilization? As far I am concerned there are no positive outcomes to fighting. Everyone is hurt in the process. It is time to ban fighting in hockey and other sports and start to play the game in a skillful manner, and in a way that sets a positive example for all in the community.

The biggest problem in hockey is the unwritten rule: No one is allowed to hit the skilled players. Nonsense. Hockey is a contact sport. If certain players are not "allowed" to get hit then they should quit hockey and join a knitting club.
One of the beautiful things about football is that no one is safe from being hit (except kickers and punters). In football everyone must takes his lumps and keep playing. Hockey is not more violent than football. Fight in football and you are ejected.
Every sport is in the hands of the players and coaches, not the referees. Break the rules and the referees are there to enforce them.
My ultimate goal for hockey is to adopt the football mentality, i.e., only skilled individuals play the game and everyone is fair game in terms of hitting.

That was a really powerful piece on fights in hockey. When Kyproes broke down in the interview, it reinforced my desire to see NHL players protected...not just from concussions and injuries, but from the need to fight. He just wanted to play hockey. He's not alone. We need our national sport to be open to everyone, and free of "bullying". We need good role models. People want to be proud of what they do for a living.

Also, employers have a duty to provide a safe work environment. I hope the NHLPA is on this - not just for tougher helmet rules.

A movement is underway, I hope people check out www.banhockeyfights.com, sign the petition, leave their views, and contact Bettman and the NHL.

Nadine Robinson
Lecturer, Algoma University
Sault Ste. Marie, ON

It's about time that someone steep up and bring this issue about fighting in hockey on the public place.

Hockey is and will always be a canadian game, but when it comes to fighting,this is the dark side of the game.Fighting should bannish from hockey, we don't need this to enjoy the game.Hockey is about creating plays, puck moving, existing plays,it's a skill game.

If fithing was banned, this means that ''goons'' wouldn't have a job in the hockey industry, where it would bring more skilled players to the game and raised the NHL product

At time point in time, hockey has been stolen by american and it's aceptized to how they want it.

We should play hockey like when it's played in the world cup or the olympics, with skilled players.No fighting or cheap shots.

Garry Bettman and his guys should step back for the tree and take a look at the forest. He should listen to what fan's what's to see.when we have decision makers like this with such a narrow vision, it's probably why hockey is racked behind bowling and darts (i don't nothing against thoses games) in the USA.

We don't need this kind of violence, we have enough on a daily bases.

Your program highlights a blight on Canadian Hockey in my view. The game today is not hockey - a skillful sport originated in Canada. It is geared to the basest of human instincts - revenge. It is not a game that is structured to reveal the skillful but to underline boorishness, unwarranted violence and vengeful conduct.
Such conduct is not a credit to Canada nor to the NHL.

The NHL Board is meeting this month. The solution they seem to be considering is to make a rule that referees stop a fight if helmets are dislodged. What do they expect? That is exactly the object since players are so well padded to protect them from injury, the head is only accessible point of attack, with disasterous results. No penalty seems to be contemplated, and that at least should be put in place by the Directors, short of banning fighting altogether.

The coaches and Don Cherry who claim that fighting makes the game safer and claim we, the public, don't know what we are asking need a reality check. The reality is that such violence is not warranted in Canada. It is not what we are about in a leisure activity. Yet that is what you have been promoting consciously or not.

Come from a hockey family. We all played - dad coached. Have socialized with NHL folks over the years. The honor of a fight is gone. Referees standing back with arms crossed is appalling during a fight. The establishment is hurting people that are just trying to play a game they love. Im ashamed of the NHL establishment and my son doesnt play hockey. He's a great sportsman he doesnt need his fists to excel in sports.

I think the whole philosophy of fighting and this code is totally inane. Don Cherry is not the most bright person in the world which is obvious. If he feels that taking fighting out of hockey will only increase the cheap shots, then why not make the penalties for hitting from behind, slue footing, tripping on an icing, elbowing to the head, high sticking and so on more severe. It is obvious that fighting has not curtailed those dirty hits anyways. My feeling is penalize those incidences more severly. Suspend players who hit from behind and high stick or elbow to the head. Then, you won't need fighters to supposedly police the league. Fighting is a natural occurance if two players in tough close contact lose control but to purport that it is necessary and fundamental to the game is moronic.

Thank you for an excellent program - we saw part of the underbelly of hockey fighting. Nick Kyroes has a lot of courage - I hope the enforcer-goons heard him. I wonder when the owners and coaches are going to "get it". They are losing their audience - people who don't want to watch the violence no longer go to the game. We must get rid of people like Don Cherry who encourage our kids to punch fellow hockey players in the head. Hockey has NOT always been like this - I am in my seventies and I remember seeing a lot of good,fast,hard,skilled intelligent hockey. Fighting is for fools - it takes no intelligence at all to hit someone in the head.

I watched most of The Code on Fifth Estate, not all of it because it was too violent. I disagree totally with those who promote violence in any form whatsoever in sports and in hockey in particular. Do we not have enough violence in our world today without promoting it in our national sport? Other sports have strict rules regarding fighting and succeed in controlling it, such as football and basketball to name a few. Hockey is a beautiful and wonderful game to watch, even when it gets a bit rough, but there's no need to fight because that is not the object of the game. Fighting belongs to another arena altogether, such as all forms of boxing and wrestling.
As for those who openly promote it, such as the "clown" Don Cherry, (who by the way is paid with public funds, so I undersand), they should be charged in our courts of law just like anybody else who promotes hate and violence in our society, whether it be on the streets or on the ice. I doubt whether this will ever happen, but as least he and others like him should clam up and stop inciting fighting, and stop influencing young players to do just that. No matter how many or what form of arguments they bring forth, they are dead wrong, just like some players have unfortunately paid for their involvement in fighting on ice.

A great controversial topic, very politically driven. Your program cleverly placed the comments of Don Cherry next to those of Brian Burke, both absolutely correct in their own way.
The game of hockey does not need fighting but as a professional sport, i.e. big money entertainment, fighting is definitely a part of it. Nobody is going to pay big money to see regular season games of "pond hockey" where there is moderate body-checking and no fighting. The big hits and true fights add hugely to the emotion on the ice that spreads to the stands and energizes the atmosphere of the arena. The staged fights are truly lame, reminiscent of WWE, and have no place in the NHL.
I have been to Leaf games (in days of old at MLG) and seen the difference between a period of "pond hockey" and a period of combative, high emotion hockey. After a period of "pond hockey", the crowd is chatting quietly or standing quietly in line at the concessions; they might as well be at the movie theatre. But after a period of combative, high emotion hockey with big hits and Wendel Clark-type fights, the crowd is alive and excited and the entire arena is electric. This is the buzz of the professional game. And big buzz = big $.
The reason there are few fights in the playoffs is the instigator rule; potential fighters are goaded into dropping their gloves, only to have the other guy skate away which results in a penalty to only one player. Believe me, there were plenty of fights in the NHL playoffs before the instigator rule.

For a person who has a good understanding of hockey, I support fighting because it will prevent cheapshots that would yield worse outcomes. The cause of the Todd Bertuzzi incident was because of a questionable hit a month earlier (an aspect of the incident often overlooked), and Steve Moore couldn't be held accountable because of the instigator rule, which penalize the third person in an altercation. I think the problem with cheapshots is a worse problem for the NHL.The issue I have in the entire debate is fighting as a result of a legal hit.

I watched Bob Mckeown's report on the Fifth Estate. I support the suggestions of Nick Kypreos to help curtail fighting in hockey. I played hockey in a time before helmets and there were fights and probably there will always be. I do believe there were two reasons that fighting has become a bigger part of the game. Fighting increased during the NHL expansion years. The expansion left the league with a shortage of top caliber players so players with lesser skills found another way to stay in the game. The league also knew that if the expansion was going to be successful, in the U.S. markets where the fans knew very little about the sport, there had to be an added feature, fighting, to draw fans. Mr. Betman
still argues that fighting is "a part of hockey" for, I believe, the same reason. There is a lot of extra stick work goes on in the sport today to increase frustration and put people off their better skills and also to aggravate players to respond in a fight. This all spoils the game.

Don Cheery says: " I know I am right and I don't care what you think." Easy to say when essentially you have no one to answer to. Give the guy a real job and let him make a statement like that and he'd be in the unemployment line.

He also made a statement to the effect... All the tough guys are Canadian and that is the one thing we are known for and now they are trying to strip it from us. I'd like to think that as Canadians we are known for more than Hockey fights. What about our peace keeping missions across the world Don?

The response of Don Cherry to the necessity of fighting in hockey, reminds me of a broadcast of the Passionate Eye called "Bowling for Columbine". There Charlton Heston, president of the NRA would show up "after" a child was killed by a gun, and would use a large crowd of supporters of the NRA (guns), to shout and act about how "right" it is for people to have guns. There is no "right" in volience in hockey. Don Cherry attitude to fighting in hockey is hipocritical. He goes to the funerals of kids who have died, and still uses his noterity to support using violence in hockey as the means to the end. Can anyone say Charlton Heston & the NRA vs Don Cherry and hockey fighting?

1. CRTC must stop being the partner in violent and ban broadcasting hockey fighting in Canada. No part of the hockey fighting can be broadcasted in Canada and the stations must be fined/punished is they do. It should not allow its signals to promote violent.

2. Don Cherry should be barred form the public school for promoting fight. He should ask himself what is the different between schoolyard fighting and hockey arena fighting. We cannot glorify one while the next is crime.

I would love to watch hockey again, as it was before fighting became the norm. Then, I couldn't wait for the next game.
At first I would switch to another channel when the fighting started, but now I have given up watching all together .
I am really disappointed in Don Cherry's attitude toward this sitation. (Yeah,I know Don. You really don't care.)

If I could add to my previous comment by saying that perhaps the NHL Hockey does not deserve the general audience rating on TV or in the arena.

After listening to the leadership of the NHL on the issue of fighting I feel the only way the NHL will change on the issue of fighting is to go after their economic interests.

Perhaps it's time for the CRTC to review and consider the option of restricting the audience to a certain age limit. My kids don't get to buy or rent video games with extreme violence. Keep in mind it's fictional violence in games and not the real violence that we see in hockey.

Watching Don Cherry rationalize about the mortal dangers of fighting in hockey makes me think Health Canada ought to demand reimbursement for injuries thus sustained.

People taking these risks "for the sake of the game" need to ante-up, if not own up, to the fact that everyone pays for the consequences of this behaviour.

It will be impossible to get rid of fighting as long as there are broadcasters like Don Cherry telling our kids it is the right thing to do. His arguments are ridiculous. I am 74 years old. Hockey wasn't a boxing match 50 years ago - it hasn't "always been part of the game". I have seen lots of excellent hockey without a single fight. I no longer watch NHL Hockey and neither do many people I know. When will the powers that be realize they are getting an audience of goons to watch their goons and losing the ones who don't want to watch a boxing match. Evolve people!!

Great story, I love fights but I think it needs to go in the NHL because of the sheer size of the goons these days. Guys like Dave Schultz & Tiger Williams are lightweghts compared to the size of these guys today. Laraque, Godard and others are all at least 250 - 270 lbs and some are 6'5" - 6'7".
The force and punching power those guys have are going to kill someone it is only a matter of time.
Only 2 qualms about the story are that nothing was mentioned about the player Sanderson was fighting with and it weas glossed over that the league Sanderson was playing does not allow fighting (automatic suspension). So unless leagues go the extreme of suspending guys for 5-10 games or lifetime bans, which no league, especially the NHL will do, there will always be 2 players willing to go at it and assume the risk of injury and suspension.
Also it was mentioned that McSorley was traded to L.A. with Gretzky. Well Gretzky demanded Marty be traded with him, Wayne wasn't stupid he knew he needed his bodyguard to open room for him on the ice.

Dear Fifth Estate:

Thanks for airing the show and making it abundantly clear that the real point at issue and the real problem is not that there is fighting in hockey but that it is deemed to be a necessary and integral part of the game. As long as that attitude persists there is little if any chance that things will change, much less that fighting will ever be suitably penalized as it is in other professional sports.
When players believe that it is their responsibility and their prerogative to enforce an unwritten code of retaliation this then for the most part makes the referee redundant (I could not help but notice that no referee was part of the program), implies that they are incapable of doing their job, for whatever reason, and supports a double standard that is difficult to fathom and justify.
If Wayne Gretzky was unable to take a legitimate hit as Marty McSorley implied and had to be "protected" maybe he should not have been playing. In other sports one has to be able to absorb the normal degree of punishment which is part of that sport. I love the game of hockey but rarely watch the NHL anymore because of where the game has gone in recent years vis-av-vis fighting. Thanks again.

Dear Fifth:

Bob McKeown; I think you really blew it! Not one mention of the FACT - that fighting is not part of European hockey, not part of Olympic hockey. not part of women's hockey and not part of kids hockey. So Cherry thinks that Canadian players are the best because they are the best at intimidation hockey. Didn't he or you watch the Sault Lake City Olympics?

These arguments are so bogus they make me ill and I have been watching hockey for over 50 years and am part of the not so silent majority. There are three officials on the ice and they can call anything they want or are told to; so the imposition of some new rules is all it will take. AND then Canadian hockey players can focus on playing hockey like all the rest. What a concept!!! AND what a game that will be???

Lance Carlson

First class job, Mr. McKEOWN!!

Seeing Mr. KYPREOS baring his soul on national television was an incredible demonstration of this gentleman's class and commitment to our game. KYPREOS' background brings far more credibility to this very important issue on the table than all the other reputed pundits put together. His past experiences places him in a very unique position to possibly have a far greater impact on how our hockey "game" can potentially evolve.

Both the NHL and the NHLPA have a duty to ALL who play the game to ensure it continues to be enjoyed as safely as possible.

Excellent show. I think most reasons for not banning hockey are red herrings. Fans love it? Sure, many probably do--but has anyone demonstrated that a ban will actually decrease attendance significantly? It's always been part of the game? According to that logic, we would still be playing the game that was played fifty years ago--and I don't think anyone misses bench-clearing brawls and stick-swinging incidents. It's a safety valve and a ban will lead to other dirty play? Then ban fighting, and deal with the dirty play with the existing or new rules.

BUT, I'm still stumped by the McSorley/Gretzky argument. Within the rules of the game, a team can physically intimidate and harass a smaller, skilled star player. I still don't know how you protect against that without an enforcer.

As an aside: the show reinforces my belief that the game--and society as a whole, for that matter--have left Don Cherry behind. I'll be glad when Coach's Corner is retired. Cherry is a dinosaur. His views are out of touch, outdated, prejudiced, and--despite what he thinks--don't reflect the views of most of the hockey fans I know.

Dear Fifth Estate: Your recent expose on fighting in hockey was well done. I grew up with hockey on the east coast. Only my size and lack of skill prevented me from having a career after being scouted by an NHL team as a thirteen year old. I played defense through to junior varsity at university and resumed playing at 40 in the Ottawa area retiring at 55.

I was a pretty good, reliable, stay-back defenseman. As a kid, I could catch any forward, hit and hurt. Unabashedly, I incorporated intimidation into my game and acknowledge it as a dimension of hockey. I was involved in one stupid fight only; I was seldom penalized. These, for what they are worth are my credentials.

Fighting and Don Cherry must go. The idiocy of allowing fighting in hockey is exceeded only by the behavior of Don Cherry and his neanderthal barbarity of lauding parking-lot style brutality as a public good. The corporate (game and CBC)tolerance of his virtually vulgar support for violence which would otherwise be criminal and denigrating civilized commentary would be ludicrous were not so tragically base and stupid. No, there is something worse, it is the continued retention of Cherry by the CBC and his legitimization by association with Ron McLean.

It is intolerable to see and hear senior representatives of the sport identify “intimidation” with fighting and to equate the physicality of hockey with fighting as “integral to the game”. Physical intimidation is a significant element of hockey, yes. It is a dimension of the game to be developed and honed just as are the other skills of elite players. That is part of the ballet of the sport; it is a measure of the complementary of opposing skills of the participants.

If the game representatives, on and off ice allow, promote or justify fighting as “protection” or as justifiable retribution or as natural, inevitable spontaneous expressions of exuberance essential to the game, then they are first of all, lying; secondly, they are supporting vigilantism and thirdly, acknowledging that rules of the game and their application are incompetant.

There is ample and sufficient physicality in the game of hockey properly and vigourously played. To allow fighting and other associated abuses of physicality and intimidation is to acknowledge that we may like our Crosby, Malkins and Ovechkins but in general prefer to live in the gutter.

Excellent documentary. Unfortunately hockey has been marketed in the States with fighting. This will not change unless the States want it gone. I have coached minor football for the past 8 years and have seen only one fight. If you fight in football you are thrown out of the game and possibly the next two games after that. Depending on the league.With a 8 game season that could mean the end of your season. To say fighting is essential to the game,then why don't you see fights in play off games??Football is a far more emtional and voilent sport than hockey and fighting is virtually non existent. The game is violent enough without fighting. When you look back into the history of football, fighting was very common during the games. But the league put a end to it with harsh penalties. I don't think any one could say football players are a pansie's for not having fighting in the game.

I no longer attend hockey games nor watch much of it on TV. Why? - mainly because of the fighting! It's denigrated the sport to an unacceptable level.

I used to regularly attend the Ottawa 67 home games. One Sunday afternoon, Oshawa was in town to play Ottawa. At the time, Ottawa had a young, fast, skilled, slightly built Norwegian player. An Oshawa player hit the Norwegian kid into the end boards so hard the gate blew open. In those days, Oshawa was like the Philidephia bullies of the 70's.

Don Cherry commented on the statistics of individuals who would prefer to see fighting removed from the game. As much as I respect some of Don's opinions, I have to disagree with his view on this issue. The majority of folks would prefer to see fighting removed from the game, and see a fast moving, skilled game being played. Seldom do we see a game such as this these days.

It was interesting to note that there was no comment on fighting in the various European leagues. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that fighting is no where near the level as it is the various North American leagues.

Over the years, I've played in several team sports, and fighting was not condoned. Take soccer and basketball for example, fighting is severly penalized; and so it should be in hockey as well. Just maybe the quality of the game will improve.

The arguments made by the pro-fighters in last night's show were laughable, particularly Brian Burke's suggestion that if you eliminated fighting you would be taking guys off the ice in wheelchairs. How many guys were taken off the ice in wheelchairs in the World Juniors this year?....the Olympics?....the playoff's last year?

I now view fighting in professional hockey as part of the entertainment package. However, simply dismissing those who oppose fighting in hockey as "left wing" or uninformed because they do not play the game is typical straw man argumentation. It strikes me that if strict rules were put in place and credibly enforced, hockey could become like any other team sport on the planet where self-discipline is a trait valued amongst players and coaches (not to mention fans)and respect for your opponent is enhanced by appreciation of skills rather than fear of retribution.

I am disappointed with the Code inasmuch as it presented only the opinions of people who have made significant personal economic gain from their involvement in the game of hockey either as a professional player or a paid voice. The people who have spent their hard earned money in following this form of vicarious entertainment for many years were completely ignored. In my opinion, fighting should remain as an intricate part of hockey. Without fighting, the game will be required to change its name or be ready to face allegations of fraud or misrepresentation.

I thought the show was interesting, but The Fifth Estate didn't ask the most basic question:

If fighting is necessary as its proponents claim to police "illegal" stickwork and cheap shots, how come the referees don't aggressively penalize the stickwork and cheap shots that lead to fights?

I don't buy the argument that the refs "can't see everything", as a previous poster claims. There are three officials on the ice and twelve skaters (ten sans goalies). How come the on-ice officials aren't doing everything in their power to prevent the stuff that leads to fights? I kept waiting for Bob McKeown to interview a referee as to why "illegal" stickwork and cheapshots aren't called more aggressively... but he never talked to a ref or asked anyone that question.

It seems to me that if stickwork and cheapshots were properly monitored and aggressively penalized, you wouldn't need to "self-enforce", would you? And if its not possible to call it, why? What's preventing the refs?

The argument in favour of fighting hinges on this question, and The Fifth Estate never asked it.

Interesting how your posts only reflect one side of the story. I posted a comment stating that all you have done is drag the same old tired clips out of the archives for yet another "Violence in Hockey" episode. Now you have a mourning family to take advantage of, wow, bonanza.
The problem with your story is you don't let the facts speak for themselves, that's why people don't trust the media. How about comparing fighting injuries to injuries aquired through other actions, or other sports even. Instead you choose to start with an opinion and simply edit the story to reflect it. Waste of time in my opinion. Guess this post won't make it either, but gets it off my chest anyway.

I live out side of a metro area and my two sons and daughter never played hockey for the simple reason of fighting if you don't like to see your 9 year old fight at a hockey game get him a ski pass and keep your kids away from neanderthals like Don Cherry.

It's simple. No other team sport (and don't tell me Hockey is more aggressive than Rugby) sanctions fighting as a part of the game itself. The logic that fighting keeps worse things from happening is absurd. If hockey can't clean up its act it deserves to wither away to the level of Irish Hurling or Elephant Polo. A sport that isn't a sport (even boxing is stylized and constrained violence) doesn't deserve to be our national sport as it will give permission to all young men to be violent. "After all," they'd say, "we're Canadian, we like to fight".

If hockey was considered a job in Ontario you wouldn't see fighting or unprotected faces. Whether the players liked it or not we have a governing body that would shut down hockey. The health and safety ministry would have a field day with all the violations. Any respectable company obeys by these rules. It's the law. Try not wearing your safety glasses,especially in front of the inspector. When players lose there sight and there's protective equipment available how do you feel sorry? All sports are very intense. Just remember the last Steelers/Ravens game. It was violent in a physical way but how many times was the game stopped because of a fight. Enforce the rules we have. If you fined players for fighting like they do in the NBA then we'd have NHL players owing the league money. They couldn't afford it. This isn't rocket science, it's sport where grown men get to play a boys game.

I think we can all agree that the goon/goon premeditated fight has no place in the game. That said, how often does it happen anymore? The new rules following the lockout phased out 90% of the straight goons. There's only a handful left; and they essentially have no impact on the game. Those that aren't straight goons are there for a reason... the deter. That was Marty McSorley's job, Nick Kyreos' job, and Jim Kytes' job. Today it is Georges Laraques' job, Donald Brashear's job, and Derek Boogaard's job. They're there to PROTECT first and foremost. Just look at what happened to Edmonton's injury list when Laraque left. Look at Toronto now. Guys are not deterred when the other team is soft and they know there is no retribution for running around. And with the influx in pest players that are very skilled at checking HARD within the rules of the game, the need for on ice deterence is at an all-time high. So it's these tough guys and enforcers that get teams to the playoffs, then the skilled guys take over and the GMs and coaches risk injury to have a more skilled guy out there. Again, depending on the situation, the value of an enforcer changes. That's why Andrew Peters, Brian McGratton, etc. sit when the playoffs come around. Makes sense. Anectodely, just sit back and watch THE FANS reactions when a fight happens. Your answer is there. From a GMs perspective, if enforcers weren't valued, they wouldn't be playing.

Kudos to Bob McKeown and his associates on the need (or lack thereof) of fighting in the game of hockey. Like Bob McCown I have similar feelings about the game and how fighting has no place in it.

This is a totally polarizing topic and is almost impossible for one not to have strong feelings either for or against the "need" for fighting. However as good of a presentation it was, I wonder why Bob McCown was the only voice you had from the "no side". Were other well known hockeymen approached? If yes why did they turn out the opportunity to discuss this extremely important debate? Off the top of my head I know that Pierre MacQuire and Bob McKenzie (both from TSN), Red Wings General Manager Ken Holland and now even NHL Senior V.P. Colin Campbell who has migrated 180 degrees on the matter, all side with Mr. Cown. There are dozens of others as well who are real hockey people who disagree with the likes of Don Cherry et al.

It seemed unfair to me that Bob was the lone voice, yet in my eyes he certainly won the argument against the other 8 insiders. Marty McSorely is exactly why hockey needs to make it as hard possible for NHL teams to employ goons. McSorely was a player with limited hockey skill yet was big and willingly to take ton the role of a fighter. Why? Simple – big money. Where else is a sluggo with a high school education going to get paid that kind of money and have such fame? A sad commentary that brawn was and still is more valuable than skill. The argument that Wayne Gretzky needed protection as he would be head-hunted every game and would be constantly hurt is simply a cop out. The rule book should police the game, not some thug with a personal agenda.

I find guys like Brian Burke totally laughable at his over dramatic waking in the night with cold sweats worrying about "his" players being hurt by hits from behind. Burke is just an educated bully and turned his limited skills as a player into a very lucrative career as a manager. But is whole "schtick" is built on aggressiveness and intimidation. I could tell he tried this tactic on Mr. McKeown with little to no success. His type pry on the weak and impressionable and has been doing it for 25 years.

This debate is just getting legs and as long as Don Cherry and his kind have a national forum to be loud and obstinate towards who do not agree with him will keep it alive. The day Cherry is silenced, which I sadly hate to say will probably be upon his death, will be a good day for hockey. His voice is powerful, but his arguments are very weak and he has no problems lying when is convenient. Case-in-point his flat out lie at the funeral for Don Sanderson where Cherry stated that he and Mike Sanderson were buddies and "get" that fighting is a big part of hockey and should never be changed.

The show was great work on this topic, but I think a follow up should be considered. Maybe something to do with the number of real injuries sustained from the violence of hockey that could be minimized by the altering and strong enforcement of the rules. Highlighted were a just a few ugly incidents that give hockey a huge black eye. There are hundreds more that could be examined and all are of because lax or inappropriate rules, and so much comes back to “the code”.

The teary Nick Kyperos said it best that fighting could be almost eliminated overnight just by changing the penalties and suspensions. And this is from a guy who was good Jr. player who could score, but since he was not a strong skater had to become a goon in order to keep his dream alive of being an NHL player. As he said he bought into the system in order to keep his well paying gig. The truth is Nick could have been the first death from a hockey fight – seeing the footage again of his last fight truly is disturbing.

A sad, but true commentary on the state of hockey then and now… the unnecessary violence of the minority takes precedence over the skills and great talent of the majority. The leadership must come from the top and Gary Bettman has proven himself to be woefully incompetent. Geez, he even continues to publicly announce that "all is fine" with the economics of NHL hockey and that fighting will always be a big part of the game. Bettman makes George Bush Jr. looks like a genius.

pdh

Don Cherry seems to be a big proponent of fighting in hockey stating it is part of the game and that 70 persent of the people who attend hockey games, support fighting in the game. Yet 60 percent of Canadians (fans and non fans) feel that it should be banned. There is a big difference...not everyone is a hockey fan. Most people cannot afford to attend hockey games and perhaps....just perhaps. if there wasn't as much violence, there would be more hockey fans!!! A funny thing too, Cherry, while an advocate of fighting, wasn't much of a scrapper during his career.

Hockey helmets are designed to protect the player from injury to the head. They are very much like seat belts----if you don't wear them properly,you can't expect them to protect you.
Minor hockey players must wear their helmets properly.This means,ear protection, full face masks,and the chin strap properly worn.I noticed that none of the players in the minor hockey fight you showed on the program,removed their helmets,or their gloves for that matter.
If you look at the helmets that the players wear in the N.H.L. you will notice that there is no face masks and the ear protection have been removed.Also if you watch the way that some of the "older or cool" players wear their chin strap hanging down on their chest,it is no suprise to me that when they need the protection of the helmet,it has failed because they are not wearing them properly.

I've been following hockey long before Don Cherry, the self-proclaimed inventor of the game, became the 'official' voice of hockey.
One of his tired and weak claims is take fighting out of hockey and the star players will get hacked and fouled forever. But that statement like most of Cherry's defences has no merit. All you have to do is look at all the great international matches that Canada has won. It's hard to find one star player, or any other for that matter, whose skill was negated by Cherrys' claims.
Here's the deal, cut and dried. The NHL, if they really wanted to ban hockey they should just do it. Any illegal detriment to skill players that ensue, deal with it until they get it right.

Capeche?

This is one topic that makes my blood boil! I cringed as I watched the many horrifying scenes. I listened in disbelief to the sickening comments by Cherry and Bettman that it is all part of the game. It can hardly be called a sport anymore with that level of violence - it is like wrestling. Why can international hockey hand out a game misconduct and automatically expel a player for the game and yet North American hockey encourages it and condones it?

Years ago when we had the Winnipeg Jets here I wrote a letter to the owner Barry Shenkarow asking him to consider having a section of the arena for fans who didn't like the violence - an area where we could sit with like-minded fans and not have to listen to the howling and cheering for the fighting. Of course he never even responded to my letter. I have never put my son or daughter in hockey due to the violence.

I applaud the players who had the guts to speak about it. Like someone else said, I'd also like to hear what the Gretzkys, Lemieuxs and Crosbys of the game think of this topic. If they only get to play because of the goons, that's a sad state of affairs. That sports commentator BobMcCown is definitely a hero in my opinion. The CBC and other media stations are also guilty of condoning the violence by constantly showing it as part of their hockey highlights and hiring someone like Don Cherry. There needs to be a group out there like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) to help get rid of this. Maybe Bob already has something started. . . .

The Fifth Estate was wrong about fighting being only in hockey. Fighting is also allowed in Lacrosse too. Just watch the NLL. But there, in order to participate in a fight, you have to take off your mask before taking on the other guy otherwise you get thrown out.

I'm divided on this, but what I'm dead against is a coach encouraging players to fight. The bad thing is if someone doesn't want to play the enforcer role, the team doesn't want them anymore. Just look at what happened to John Kordic.

"The Fifth Estate - Canada's premiere investigative series" taken from the Google search for the show.

I have to question any investigative show that in the opening remarks by the host claims hockey to be Canada's National sport!!!

FYI CBC - our national sport is actually LACROSSE- something I think kids learn in about grade 2 and google will confirm for you!!

Acceptable levels will provail! Its in our nature to protect those around us. Even in world affairs or in our personal lives. That's why the sport is so popular. The game is true to our nature and our lives. Fast paced and exciting.

Fans who go to the games, getting into sold out markets. They are looking for the entertainment level of the unexpected. The shootout offers this. Dosen't a fight offer this? I've been to many games of all levels including junior, whl, and nhl. The fans love it. They always stand and cheer. Jerome Iginla is a marquis player who fights. To spark his team, protect his team and to protect himself. Some of the incidents could have been avoided if the player would just turn around and stand up for himself. That's the provention and self policing.

People don't go to games just to see fights, its the icing on the evening out. Like the shootout. Take away the fighting is taking away from the value of the experiance!

Excellent presentation CBC.

I can't imagine anyone having a major problem with the occasional "heat of the moment" pushing, shoving and tap to the kisser; even Sydney Crosby does that. And
I was a Broad Street Bullies fan back in the 70's when they followed the code.

I believe it's all different now. Players today are actually wanting to concuss their opponent. Criminal violence with intent to cause severe and permanent damage. Fights are about cracking an opponent's skull against the ice to end their career. The new code.

Instead of fights stopping head-shots and thuggery, I think it encourages it, causing 1,000 brawls a year.

Can Don Cherry watch this disgusting activity and honestly say it still belongs in the game?

I know he will dismiss my opinion because I am just a fan and he's played one more NHL game than I have, but there is a huge difference between standing up for your teammates and trying to end the life of a player you seldom play against.

If enforcers are SO important to the game, then why are they not drafted first? Why are they not paid the most? Why don't stats carry number of fights ? Why isn't there an all-star game for them ?
Why was Don Sanderson's sweater retired and not the gentleman that did him in ? Why - because goons are no longer needed in the modern sport of hockey.

For a follow-up show, poll all the NHL players whose careers were ended - or shortened because of a small percentage of enforcers and wanna-be's, and see if they agree this bloodthirsty carnage belongs in the game.

The code has passed its best-before date and now it should be retired and hung from the rafters.

I have played hockey for over forty years, I have coached for almost thirty, I have three children that play. With all the work, insight, expense that went into the story tonight you have missed the point. I follow Bob McCown's work on radio and have heard his coverage of this story leading up to the show. The factor that creates the scenario for the "heavyweights" and staged fighting in hockey is the mentality that intimidation, constituted by bigger is better, rougher is best, and put on a show for the fans justification, is the guiding strategy for much of the hockey establishement. Tactics, skill and passion are regarded as the defining elements of Canadian hockey and I'll be damned if I let Don Cherry get the last word saying its about fighting. You spent way too much time on the symptom and not a minute on the illness affecting todays hockey. That is that the majority of players and fans want the reason for fighting to be eliminated, not the fact that a fight may occur as an reaction during the playing of the game. Make rules, enforce the rules, get rid of the players who can't play by the rules, penalize the coaches and teams that won't play by the rules. With the posing and posturing of neandrathals such as Brian Burke and Don Cherry, NHL hockey is becoming more like WWE than the sport I love. I can go without watching pro hockey, but they have polluted the game at the minor level and that is the greater sin.

Don Cherry is so wrong. Maybe those who achieved a high level of success in major league hockey consider fighting as part of the game but many of us who grew up in the 50's and 60's playing school hockey and pond hockey think that it is time for hockey to grow up and clean up. I loved hockey as a kid, but I was always off the rink and back home by 8:00 on Saturday night for Hockey Night in Canada. I loved our St. Catharines TeePees, and later the Black Hawks. Yes, the fights were exciting to watch as a kid. But as I grew and learned to appreciate the skills of the players, I began to see the fights as a distraction. As the NHL expanded and watered down the pool of talent allowed in this exclusive club, I lost interest in the game- in the clutching and grabbing, and the fighting. I rarely watch hockey any more. If I happen to tune in, I always skip Don Cherry's crude opinions at intermission. I did watch the All Star game this year, and enjoyed the level of skill displayed by players who were free to skate and stick-handle. I don't advocate a hit-free game, but these guys could put on a great show if allowed to skate with not tripping, holding or interference- and especially no fighting.

Need some ratings, drag out the same old clips, Marty Macsorley, Steve Moore, good god, give it a rest. If you don't like fighting, don't watch.
To take advantage of a family in mourning for their dead son is really pathetic. ie Don Sanderson's family. It seems to be trendy to knock hockey because as Don Cherry says it's something we're good at. Anyone who likes it must be a neanderthal, especially if they enjoy the aggressive part of the game. When you the media are finished your rants about hitting, visors,and fighting you will probably be successful and make the game more like basketball. Then the people who don't like hockey still won't watch it and The Fifth Estate can do a documentary on "What Went Wrong With Hockey?"

To suggest that fighting keeps the game cleaner would suggest that our referees are inept and can't control the game well enough. If that is the case then we need to develop better referees. Perhaps the game needs to make penalties longer,no getting out due to goals being scored and longer suspensions for what is deemed dangerous or intents to injure. The solution is not to turn a blind eye, hide behind the history of the game or weak rationalizations. We study history to avoid making the same mistakes over and over. Hockey needs to make some changes to avoid a repeat of the latest tragedy. It's time to teach kids to "play hockey".

I have always been aware of the fighting that goes on in hockey. I am also aware it has always been part of the game. Sadly, it has become the game. Don Cherry indicated that Canada is well known for hockey and the fighting that goes along with it......now after the tragic death of Don Sanderson, Canada will also be known for the death of a young man caused by fighting in hockey....I'm not so sure that's a good thing. My heart goes out to the Sanderson family....and Don.....may your young heart rest in peace.

Thanks for a great program.

I love hockey, sports and the ice but I tune out on NHL games as soon as the fighting starts and I rarely watch anymore. Although I do miss it, I stopped coaching minor hockey because I can't reconcile my love of the game and the violence.

"Testosterone, truculance and beligerance"??!? No thanks.

Why is NHL hockey different from Olympic and International hockey? If the exact same players can play in those venues without fighting, then why not on Hockey Night In Canada???? Why can't ALL the players use skill, intelligence, integrity & ability -- why does fear and violence have to be part of the game?

Our National game? Not yet. Only when a former NHL tough-guy like Nick Kypreos can say he would be proud and happy to have his child playing the game then no Canadian can be proud to call it "our game".

yes i agree with don cherry fighting is part of the game but the problem is that the NHL is to big.there is to many teams for the high skill level of the players that are out there if you cut back the number of teams in the NHL you improve the quality of the game will because there will be more higher skilled players available for each team to choose from improving the game i give you an example the world junior tourment or the olympics games then there would no room on a team for goons Allen Rollings

Listening to these proponents of fighting in hockey make me feel so angry and sick to my stomach. I'm a grandmother who has grandsons playing hockey, ages 10 and 8. They love playing and are good skaters and are developing the skills of the game. But they will never play in any league that promotes fighting. The NHL has lost its way. Gary Bettman spouts the line " fighting is part of the game" Don Cherry is a broken record, and should have been ashamed of showing up at the funeral for the young man who died carrying out the gospel of fighting in hockey, so glorified by simple minded lovers of violence on ice. These players who say fighting is necessary to prevent worse violence, are simple minded. What other sport allows deliberate attacks on its own players; soccer, the beautiful game, they are taken off the field; Baskwtball, or even football. Out on the street, such behaviour is a criminal act. What makes it OK in a hockey rink.
There was a time I loved to watch hockey on TV, and would go to games whenever we could afford it. But since fighting has taken over the game, we no longer can watch it. WE like watching the games played at the Internationals where fighting is not allowed, and real hockey takes over.

Great documentary and I believe that you did a lot toward moving the discussion to a higher level. I agree that you have to love Don Cherry but tonight he fell to an all-time low for nonsense comments...even for him! First he says that Hockey is all that we have in Canada and then challenged your stats regarding who really has a right to have an opinion on this issue. Come on Don, if hockey is our only legitimate national identity then everyone of us has a right to our opinion on it and our opinion is just as valid as yours. If Don, Betman et al were not so afraid of change, they would honestly look at hockey for what it could be...a game of finess and skill where if you could skate well, pass well and shoot well, you would score goals and win. I ate and slept hockey as a youngster until in my late 20s when I realized the monster that I could become was insane and not worth hurting or maiming another human being that I turned from it and have never looked back with anything but regret. I will concede that cheap stick work and cheap shots demand a reaction but I now believe that the reaction must come from the guys with the striped shirts in the way of suspensions and outright expulsion for repeat offenders and not from the players pumelling one another. To sane and reasonable thinking people, the tragic life ending incident that happened to the 21 year old Whitby player in the name of sport must be taken seriously and changes made or be honset and change the name of it to violence on blades or soething more accurate. Oh, and by the way, the IQ really shows up bigtime when you interview a goon and he desparengly refers to speedskaters as some lower form of sport...key word:skater!(not goon)

Just watched the program.
What I would like to know are the fighting statistics.
Fights per game in the regular season vs. the playoffs.
I think these numbers will tell you if fighting is relevant.
Also, what about this year's world junior hockey?
This year was very exciting hockey.
How many fights?
How many dangerous plays or penalties?
Enough opinions.
Use the numbers to paint the real picture.

It would have been interesting to see what some of the "skilled" players in the NHL think about fighting.

Thank you for having the courage to put this show on the air. I am a firm opposer of hockey fighting. My sone is nine, yes nine, years old and I never go to a game without seeing a fight. There are players on his team they call "the goons". My son has never fought and I hope never will. Do we work hard as a family to teach our children how wrong fighting is only to let all those rules disappear on the ice?

Yes, accidents can happen in hockey and kids and players can get injured but that the risk of life. Players should not have to fear for brutal attacks to play the game they love. How will we ever stop bullying. With all due respect to the hockey legends on your show, if you cannot control the players from playing dirty (if they do not fight other bad - worst- things will happen) then maybe they are just not the right players?

Fighting in hockey is simply barbarous! Thank you for exposing how awful it really is. Don Cherry is absolutely wrong that fighting in hockey defines Canada. Quite the contrary, it disgraces our national game.

Honestly, I hate when the game is "held up" by goons fighting but I do see a need for it. I love hockey and have watched the deterioration of it for the last 40 years. The only reason for "fighting" is to overcome the lack of "justice" in referees' decision. I am not saying that referees are incompetent - far from thatas they are strung up by the "rules", forget the code - but we all know that they can't "see" everything. I don't believe that anyone would allow their "child" to be treated unfairly so why are we surprised when a "cheap" hit is returned by the drop of the gloves?

What I am against is a coach who instructs players to fight. There is a place for, so called, "goons" on hockey teams, otherwise the skilled players would be picked off one by one. No matter the team. Those that say that fighting shouldn't be part of the game are those that would throw the baby out with the bath water.

Don't get me wrong, I wept, and my heart goes out to Mr. Sanderon's family, when I heard of Donald Sanderson's death as it was a tragedy. At the same time, I agree with Don Cherry, if you drop the gloves, you have to know, in the back of your head, that you may be seriously hurt. Just don't do it. The league shouldn't have to regulate it. The players will decide when someone else is out of line.

When I attend our games I am infuriated by the delay of game when players choose to fight. After all, I came to see a hockey game, not a boxing match. At the same time, I am amazed by the number of people that are cheering when a fight breaks out. Those that don't "go to hockey games" are against it. Obviously, it is a part of our game so, what is the answer? Protect yourself at all costs.

KD

I applaud your show on fighting in hockey. I am proud of Nik Kyreos (spelling) for speaking out against it. Don Cherry and others are such a dominating force in the hockey world it is hard to stand up against him. If someone does something in hockey they get 5 to 10 games. I think this is outrages. They should be out. Look at Todd B. He's still playing hockey.