Your Comments
Ms. Bouchard's parents should be held accountable by our courts for their response to her regarding the sexual abuse. The fact that they were more concerned about her sexuality instead of the abuse, is an act of criminal neglect of a child.
As for the unidentified male student in the story, at 17, he was old enough to know right from wrong. The teacher didn't break the law. She was a first grade teacher, who slept with a high school student 10 years her junior. He was older than 16 years of age, and the sex was consentual. The unidentified male in the story should take responsibility for his own actions instead of placing blame on others. Until he does, he will continue to feel angry and depressed.
I was disppointed that there was not an interview with the parents of Donna Bouchard. I think they should be held accountable for how this played out too (as much as the school board and the people from the town). How could they not have seen the vulnerable position their daughter was in, why would they not have questioned the amount of time the teacher wanted to spend with their daughter and WHY would they have called Margaret Carruthers for support when their daughter had tried to commit suicide!!! I hope they have shown some remorse over their treatment of their daughter when she needed them the most. And I hope Donna was strong enough to forgive them. I'm not sure I would have been.
J Clarke Ottawa
— Posted on July 17, 2008 04:11 PM
Why would Donna Bouchard's parents allow sleep-overs at a teacher's house? My God!
My heart goes out to this young lady. Although long overdu, I do hope she is getting the support from her family now.
While watching this episode and reading other material on the abuse of teenagers by adults, I was struck by the similarity of the exuses used by the abusers for their actions.
A very dear friend of mine recently discovered her boyfriend (who is 22) had been having consensual oral sex and fondling her fourteen-year-old sister, who lives with her. His exuse was that she flirted with him (true) and didn't scream rape when he escalated the behavior (also true).
What really stuck in my mind while hearing this was something I read in an excellent book on the subject, "Sexual Abuse of Children" by Susan Brownmiller. She offered what I thought was a brilliantly succinct analysis of what is wrong with these so-called "consensual" relationships. It strongly shaped my understanding of the fallacy of abuser's attempts to whitewash themselves.
It is perfectly natural for young girls [or boys for that matter] to flirt with older male or female authority figures. This is a safe and healthy forum in which they can explore their budding sexuality. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ADULT TO GIVE THE CHILD LOVE AND SUPPORT WHILE NOT ACKNOWLEDGING OR ENCOURAGING SUCH BEHAVIOR.
The young lady in question had come from an abusive homelife which forced her to live with her sister. Previous abuse and instability in the home makes young people even more vulnerable to authority figures (and realistically, children are taught to see most adults as authority figures) who offer love, support and stability. The youth will feel a strong need to please and satisfy this person who seems to want them to be happy. Otherwise they may lose someone they see as being one of their few lifelines and sources of love. As such, it is true that the teenager who, on the surface at least, seems mature and intelligent enough to be able to say 'yes' or 'no', may not have been forced. But there is a big difference between physical force and mental coercion.
Sadly, it is impossible to see this young man punished for his selfish and thoughtless behavior. He cannot be made to comprehend the damage he has done to this young lady, since in his mind he did nothing wrong. He took what he saw as being offered; What's the harm in that? The real damage may not even become evident until she starts trying to establish new relationships. After all, relationships, whether they be with friends or lovers, require trust. It has been demonstrated to all concerned that even those closest to you, sometimes even in your bed, cannot always be trusted.
Lisa
— Posted on July 17, 2008 01:40 AM
Your program missed the point entirely in my view. Yes, sexual predation of a minor is reprehensible wherever it takes place. It is a case of the strong taking advantage of the weak, and we protect them with justification. I think your use of subject was sensationalized through the case of a teacher and a student. And sex of course to generate a headline and moral outrage. A wasted opportunity.
The penalty is very severe. You neglected to mention the fact that along with the jail sentence goes the four years of education required to enter the profession in the first place. All down the drain, and for what? Find another outlet for your sex drive beside a classroom.
The real issue here in the classroom is trust. A teacher is in "loco parentis". As a teacher I was a "parent" to thousands of kids over twenty years.
As a male in extremely close physical vicinity to young, fully physically delevoped females, it was sometimes a test of my integrity. If I were that students father, would it be "OK" for me to pursue the offer of a closer and possibly sexual relationship? Of course not. It would be an abuse of the trust in my relationship with that student.
That is the principle that must be enforced and made loud and clear through the school authorities and the courts. The sex aspect of the relationship is only exploited for sensationalism in the media, and the true violation is never put in the spotlight. As I said, it was a wasted opportunity by the ABC. You went for the cheap shot. Maybe you will get it right the next time you visit this topic.
Regards
Bill Russell
Hello Hanna Gartner,
I am amazed with what glee you seem to rake up old mud.
Society is so unreasonable, if the young man would have been half a year older the teachers escapade would have been just a faux pas.
So much for justice. Sincerely Paul Merk
Come on. If you take a poll of this guys classmates, I bet a high percentage of them were sexually active. The teacher was obviously in the wrong, but this whole thing got blwn out of proportion. If the teacher hadn't gotten pregnant, there probably woulndn't have been a developement. Definitely not a story. He was 17 years old,and definitely unlikely forced into it. It's like the guy who was "sexually abused" at the Tavern in Paradise Hill, Sask. Just don't get your mom involved!
KB
— Posted on July 17, 2008 01:18 AM
Good journalistic piece - covered all the angles. I believe in zero tolerance of sexual activities with children/youth by people in positions of trust - especially teachers. No excuses. No jury needed.
Sharon c Saskatoon
— Posted on July 17, 2008 12:41 AM
I was disgusted and sickened by the comments and attitude of the 2 men in the Albertan small community that Hana interviewed. Would these two 'gentlemen' find a male pedophile more offensive? I cannot imagine what that young man has had to put up with in the years since the assaults.
How petite Jocelyn Jaster was is irrelevant. Whether the 17 year old enjoyed having sex with this woman is irrelevant. Whether he drove them on their 'dates' is irrelevant. What is relevant is that this woman, while working as a teacher, had sex with a 17 year old student.
As parents, we teach our children to trust doctors, policemen and teachers. These are people that you can go to if you have a problem. The individuals in these professions are in positions of trust.
The most valuable asset that we have in our society are our children. The current laws for sexually assaulting a child here in Canada are a slap on the wrist. As a society, we are not nurturing and protecting our children; we are protecting our pedophiles and allowing them to thrive.
We need to set in place laws that make it clear to every single homegrown pedophile, and every one flocking here from around the world, that we will no longer tolerate our children being abused. Canada will no longer be a safe haven for pedophiles. You touch one of our children sexually, and you lose your right to breathe. We will take your life humanely, but take it we will.
I am outraged at the reaction and comments of those two old men that Hannah Gartner interview on "Teacher's Pet". Obviously they know nothing about child abuse and it sounds as if they don't care to know. As for the ridiculous lawyer she interviewed, does he really believe himself? If he does, he's as stupid as those men. The principal should have been fired for his inaction and the two teachers deserve to lose everything. They are no better than any pedophile and deserved a lot worse than they got.
Gleny Ontario
— Posted on July 16, 2008 11:02 PM
Simply disgusting that those two men at the end of the program talking to you were even allowed on camera...it's men like that who keep secrets in a town and condone abuse of children...
Mary Ontario
— Posted on July 16, 2008 10:16 PM
When you are a teacher, you are in a position of Authority. PERIOD! Even if you work at the school down the street, maybe even a school in a different district...the fact of the matter is, a student, no matter what age, will always view a teacher in that light, even if they don't admit it. There is power in being "the Teacher", and in a Students mind there will always be a sense of Awe for that teacher, even if in their minds they think the relationship is something they want, they are still being persuaded by the person of authority!
Being involved in such a case now, I pray that the Criminal Charges sure to be laid against the teacher in question result in a conviction. I will certainly be doing everything in my power to ensure He never teaches again.
That lawyer in the show made me feel as sick as my teachers union Representatives take on the situation at hand.
Fellow teachers remember that, your union dues go to pay for the defense of these predators!!!!
Donna Bouchard was my teacher when I was young. Knowing she had to go through this makes my heart sink. I think these teachers are disgusting. They are abusing their power and to even question weather this is wrong...why is there such a fine line? It's wrong. Plain and simple. Isn't it the same as a parent abusing their child? We are taught to trust our teachers because they help us in life but when something like this happens it's hard to trust.
This is one of the best TV programs ever. I also have children in school and it's really scary to realize how powerless we parents are. What if these monsters teach your children? Thank you for the wonderful show, fifth estate. I guess I should be more alert and get involved with school. It's sad that we can't trust anyone anymore anyhow when it comes to children. :-(
Yoon
— Posted on May 18, 2008 04:34 AM
I was most disgusted by those men that talked to Hana, what pathetic citzens of that town they are. With that kind of support no wonder than young man is stil having trouble.
As a survivor of catholic schools I'm not surprised by the community response. When it came to that young woman why wasn't the principal put in jail as well perhaps for a longer time than the teacher.
How come in Canada we continue to let the foxes protect the henhouses. Once again the people we elect to keep us and our families safe fail us and we are suprised that a scumbag lawyer can make the victim seem like the abuser. We are responsible, we let the teachers, doctors, lawyers etc police themselves, hell, we let the police police themselves and don't question that.
What is the matter with having accountability in place in our institutions that are supposed to protect us? I'm an old man and I know what would have happened if this had gone on when I was a youngster, even though the abuse I suffered by the nuns and brothers and priests wasn't acted upon then, I was pulled from that school and my sister said to me years later that the church did pay consequenses for that.
What a pathetic criminal justice system my country has sunk too, even our children are doubly and trebly abused by the system itself. I can only hope that our children and grandchildren find the balls to change this travesty that we have saddled them with. I love my country and am proud to be a Canadian and proud of what that stands for, I am ashamed that I let this sort of thing happen to our people.
Ken Benson
Why is this problem still rampant around the world? I witnessed similar sexual exploitation in France (late eighties) when I was attending high school with 2 teachers dating students in my class and a 3rd one making passes at me (which I fought back but I had strong family support). This problem is rampant and sanctions must be set.
Why aren't teachers who sexually exploit students (male or female) not automatically registered in a pedophile registry? We, as adults, have to lead by example and set very definite ethical boundaries to protect our children! There can be no discrimination against male students on the basis that they "enjoy" themselves. An adult teacher should NOT GET INVOLVED WITH A STUDENT. Period. It would have been interesting for Fifth Estate to obtain the opinion of a psychologist on Ms. Jaster becoming pregnant. I would be curious to know whether he would determine that it is a way for the teacher to further entrap and manipulate her lover. Being a so-called responsible adult, she should have made certain NOT to become pregnant!
Also, school boards, principals should be held accountable if they look the other way. Unfortunately, they are strongly unionized and so the best interest of children is overlooked.
remaining 'silent' when you know abuse is being committed is the greatest corruption of all. debden residents deserve to have the representatives they got. how out of touch with reality can they be, to make jokes and make fun of the 'victim'. they probably can't remember that a kid at 17,even mature ones can be totally unpredicable and are so vulnerable. that child that she lost was also his..what a horrible way to begin his life as an adult. and dewberry, when a child leaves your town where do you think they go? where would have you gone? start talking people - what have you got to lose!
beenateen calgary
— Posted on May 15, 2008 12:35 AM
I watched your program and was particularly disgusted with the Lawyer (Huckster) of the teacher who had the relationship with the male student. His argument about the student having an equal role in the relationship was pitiful. He was dead wrong and should be ashamed of himself for making such a claim.
Teachers are educated professionals and know full well the relationship boundaries when it comes the students in their charge.
Great work!
I just watched your show this evening and was appalled at the result of the charges on these two teachers. What is this world coming to? I would like to know what that lawyer would say if it were his son or daughter that was victimized at the hands of a teacher! Students are vulnerable.
It is up to the "professional" who is a teacher in this case, to take responsibility in not allowing these kinds of relationships to happen. That is what "ethics" is all about! I have raised 3 children, who thank God were never victimized, but I believe these teachers are preditors and seek out the vulnerable student, and then try to blame them after. If a student can't trust their teacher - then what?
This kind of behavior needs to be stopped and not blamed on the victims. Also, where were the parents in both these instances? Allowing their young daughter to sleep over anywhere on a regular basis is asking for trouble, and then they turn around a accuse her for being gay? They don't deserve to be her parents.
MSenay Alliston
— Posted on May 14, 2008 10:28 PM
After watching the repeat broadcast of teacher's pet this evening, I feel sick to my stomach knowing that the victims continue to be victimized over and over.
I had been raped and molested repeatedly almost on a daily basis for over 3 years by a family member.I carried that secret with me for over 20 years for the very reason of having to deal with not being believed, ridiculed, and blamed for what happened to me.
I was just 12 years old when it began. It destroyed my marriage and my health in every way imaginable.I am now in therapy and my abuser is still walking the streets a free man. He was an adult when he started the abuse.After watching the reaction of the public officials and how they handled both cases, why in the world would i come forward and become a victim by those who didn't protect me to begin with.Many people have alot to answer for by a judge they can't lie too.
Donna D newfoundland
— Posted on May 14, 2008 09:10 PM
I was absolutely outraged by last night's episode of the First Estate, 'Teacher's Pet' - victimized by their teachers, then victimized once again by the institutions charged with protecting them. There seems to be an underlying theme throughout both of the profiled incidents. That being the ignorance of the small towns, demonstrated by the two old fools interviewed in Dewberry Alberta and verbalized by Donna Bouchard's sister when she described their parents� reaction to her sister's diary. Has this ignorance of the small town contributed to the frequency of these incidents? Hanna noted statistics of the frequency of sexual interference of students by teachers; I wonder what percentage occurs in small towns.
Just caught the tail end of a show you recently had on.... my personal opinion (although shared) on this topic is as follows. Although I was born in Canada, I have lived abroad outside the country I have come across people men and women of different cultures and had conversations about these and similar topics.
Much to my surprise it seems as though North America has some of the most hang ups when it comes to sexuality.. and yet not violence. Quite honestly more emphasis seems to be put on these types of issues than other issues that would appear much more harmful to society. It's almost as if once an individual hits their mid 30's/40's they have developed sudden amnesia as to what they did as young adults or in their teens. It's as though they ignore or are in denial that when you are between the ages of 15 to 20 especially most (human beings) are very sexually active.. and search for it.. period.. in both sexes.
Now why this alarms people is something that I believe should be investigated more... could it be perhaps jealousy that brings upon these hang ups.. that there own lives/marriages are not as they once were.. in turn causing a certain amount of sexual tension and anxiety in their own existance.. to which the knowing that there teens are out there living it up so to speak is just too hard to digest. How (INNOCENT) were (YOU) when you were that age.. or even now.. be honest and I would love to have a poll on that very question.
Now before some of you go off the handle at this msg.. I will say this that 'OF COURSE' there should be monitoring involved in such places as schools.. but this is a very tricky situation. The show I saw on this topic was to me extremely UNREALISTIC.. but of course being on the tube and the slant that it has towards all this pity for the young man you'll have everyone nodding there heads to the fact that this young man at the time must have been traumatized... (NOT) However the "shame and guilt" you spoke about.. would have come after the fact that his own personal situation had to go (PUBLIC) with several people in his face telling him.. "you must feel terrible!" Eventually he or anyone would succumb to that kind of pressure.
I myself had a brief affair with someone much older than me when I was 16 (not a teacher.) Did (SHE) seduce me.. did I not know what was going on.. was I confused and couldn't make judgements for myself.. was I persuaded.. coericed..and then later haunted by that lil fling as a young person for years after..
Now.. had my parents found out and ummm... maybe I had to travel into courtrooms.. and have cameras stuck in my face 24/7 and have all my neighbours in asking my parents what went wrong.. and then later have my own parents want to seek phsycological help for me..cuz.. ummm... they've been told it's the right thing to do... then yeah.. maybe I would be convinced for a long while that what I had (allowed) was the most (UNNATURAL) thing in world!
I do NOT want to come off as insensitive to this very serious issue or to anyone that has SERIOUSLY faced sexual abuse or misconduct.. but there can be a whole lot of grey area there ALOT and I've known of several cases where things weren't exactly as they seem behind closed doors.. although tears may have flowed in a courtroom.
Young adults will do what they do.. they are living, breathing people and fast approaching there sexual peaks (for both sexes) between their mid teens to late 20's (despite what some articles will have you believe.) Anyone both female and male will break under the pressure of having their parents screaming at you "what did they do to you" even if they themselves wanted to go there and had been there before. All you have to do is think back to that age.. unless of course you were a so-called "late bloomer" the average age of people losing their virginity is 15.. keep this in mind.
Fact is there ARE 'so called' (predators) out there and if they are in a position of authority they have to use proper judgement... however we at the same time should try to NOT be so naive as adults and if that means we have to 'hang up our hang ups' then so be it.. but don't be naive.. don't be ignorant.. be fair.. be smart.. and most of all be honest to both your child, but more importantly to yourself!
bottom line-the adult has the power and control over student and knows how to abuse it-students are always the victims and should not be put on the defensive
robbin
— Posted on April 17, 2008 01:08 AM
As a former student of Donna Bouchard, my heart goes out to her. I had gone to see her many times for counselling and she was a great help, one of the best teachers I have ever had.
It is so sad that so many people turn a blind eye to situations like this. How can Canada's judicial system let people like Marg Carruthers and Ms. Jaster serve such little time or run free!? It is sick!
I hope so very much that Donnas story reached the "christian" communities in Saskatchewan. Especially the one(s) she taught at.
Anonymous Alberta
— Posted on January 15, 2008 09:05 PM
Thank you to The Fifth Estate for telling people that female perpetrators do exist. I have rarely heard public stories about female pedophiles. I was also abused by a female teacher, and at the time there were few case precidents in law, and fewer made public. At the time I felt like a pariah and was confused beyond words.
People need to hear these stories, to understand, and to recognize abuse when they see it. Part of the reason that it may have been difficult to report what was happening to Donna, may have been how people just don't think of women as abusers. We have the feminist movement to thank (in part) for that.
Many thanks to Donna for having the courage to so publicly share her story. I hope she was able to pursue civil litigation against her abuser and the school board. Someone should have protected her and they therefore should help to pay for her to heal.
One comment that hasn't really been acknowledged is that there are likely many cases of abuse that have been handled civilly rather than criminally. In these cases, there are likely many more pedophiles who continue to teach, because their college may never know about the litigation. Often times gag orders are written in the agreement made between the parties, and the truth is never made public. While this may not be in the victim's interest, it happens.
Abuse is abuse, and it is vile and disgusting. I agree with the many responders before me that both teachers deserved to do jailtime. I wonder if the circumstances regarding the female teacher who abused the 17 yo boy had been different, if a different outcome would have been reached? What if the teacher had been overweight, and ugly... Much was made of the fact she was petite and nice looking. Who cares! What she did was wrong and reprehensible. I hope her life becomes the penance she should have received from the justice system.
LAH Ontario
— Posted on January 15, 2008 04:54 PM
For the past year I have been banging my head between Parliament and the Police trying to have something done about an incident involving my daughter's teacher. My daughter was 13 at the time and has Down Syndrome. Her Educational Assistant was away on holidays when 9 nude photos of her classroom teacher were discovered on my daughters school computer. They were found in her "my picture" file where she has pictures of babies. This man was not charged.
First the Police said they could not prove he did it and could not prove his intentions.(???)
After providing the Police with enough information clearly proving he did put the pictures on and should be charged (via Honourable Rob Nicholson's advice) under section 163 of the criminal code - the police repsonse to that was that "they" did not consider the pictures obscene. I would like to know who decided that 9 naked photos of a man who is in a position of trust with a very vulnerable young lady (a child) are not obscene. Is not the whole act obscene?? To date he no longer is employed by the Thames Valley School Board and is awaiting a hearing with the Ontario College of Teachers.
It is my understanding he has left the area and quite possibly could be teaching somewhere else. What I have learned in all of this is that Canada does not have any "grooming" laws in place for predators such as this man. In some of the United States these laws are in place.
It is my goal to have the laws in Canada made stronger adding to an already changing legislation. If there was not so much grey area these types of people could be charged and we all know their intentions. Since this was publicized in the London Free Press March 9/07 several alligations of his past have been brought to my attention. Much like the stories aired last week, we live in a small town and everyone here just wanted it all to go away. It is not something anyone will talk about.
How can we as adults, the "protector's" of children, our future, ignore such actions. It only takes one moment to ruin a child and it is our responsibility to have such sinister people dealt with accordingly. Thank-you Fifth Estate for your segment on a topic that hits close to home.
Wow, way to sell your story Fifth Estate. Glad you are so willing to put glitz and glamour ahead of the truth! I especially love how you figure you called everyone in town, guess my phone was out that day! And the whole "sex scandal" here was a joke and I doubt that anyone in this town sides with "the victim". Maybe try doing an story during the week instead of on a Sunday. And when you interview people for 1/2 an hour, maybe show a little more of it then 2 minutes. Fifth Estate should be ashamed of the way they portrayed small town Alberta!!
This episode is a real eye opener to our lacking Justice system. I was a student in Debden and heard the rumors regarding Marg Carruthers firsthand. The program stated two other teachers knew what was going on but I'm sure there were more. The Faculty and especially Principal should all be ashamed of their pathetic cowardice. I cannot imagine knowing about something like this and not doing something about it. Hopefully Marg is getting what she deserves because god knows the courts didn't deliver it. Donna you are so courageous, I know you will go on to do many great things for people who have gone through the same horrible things you have
Disgusted Saskatchewan
— Posted on January 15, 2008 01:06 AM
The issue of whether or not, by involving herself in a sexual relationship with a student under 18, was criminal is clearly spelled out by the criminal code and is on your website.
I have to say that bias was very obvious when Hana Gartner asked Jaster's lawyer, "Do you think it's okay for a student and teacher to have sex?" When the lawyer gave his answer, the look on Gartner's face was one of disgust.
Whether people like it or not, the age of consent in this country is 14, partly because our government acknowledges that sex is a normal part of human relationships. As Jaster's lawyer pointed out, the issue is really whether or not Jaster exploited any authority over the 17 year old in order to get him to have sex with her. The jury did not feel that she did. The look on Gartner's face upon asking Jaster's lawyer that question implied to me that any time a person who happens to be a teacher and person who happens to be a student have a sexual relationship, that we must assume an abuse of trust and authority.
I am sure that there are many cases of abuse of trust and authority but just because a relationship involves an age difference and the possibility of abuse of trust doesn't mean that we should assume an abuse of trust occurred.
I do feel for the young lady and the young man, It is soo disappointing to find out that there own parents did not notice! How can you not notice! your own kids! The most disappointing thing is how can you be embarrassed about your own kids, isn't it more embarrassing now for how you made your kids feel and make them SUFFER!
To all the Parents on earth PLEASE listen to your children, who cares what others may think for what happened to a certain family Please lets have all criminals of the streets and keep every child happy and healthy!
For the love of every child on earth!
thanks
Anonymous
— Posted on January 14, 2008 02:55 PM
Having been involved in cases of misconduct of educators in several provinces, I see the silence of the community in Alberta and Saskatchewan as indicative of the wider culture of the country of Canada.
There are many people who are without voices in Canada, abused children are only among a few. There is not much in Canadian culture that advocates for the human rights of the individual. The force of conformity within the group and the isolation of groups within the cultural mosiac necessarily imitigates against the small voice of the victim being heard and appreciated.
The two men who allowed themselves to be interviewed are not Neanderthals. They are rednecks, and their views are representative of many people who currently populate the rurals areas of this country.
I am a teacher and I feel very disheartened to be part of a profession that has members who take advantage of children - no matter what their ages. We aren't all offenders and so the big brush that is being used to sweep all teachers (or most/many) into a pot of misconduct is frustrating - though I understand why it happens. I admittedly look at Catholic priests in a different way now just because of all their publicity. It makes me angry to see that more and more teachers are being brought up on charges of misconduct. I just don't understand what these teachers are thinking!
"Professionalism" to me is so important and the idea that a person is knowingly waving aside their duties as a teacher, person of authority and an adult who knows better is very troubling to me. I believe any teacher who is rightly accused and convicted should absolutely lose their teaching certification and spend time in jail. No matter who you are, teacher, priest, police, nurse, garbageman, secretary, etc. nobody, nobody has the right to violate children of any age.
Obviously, no one has issues with a young elementary girl or boy being abused by a teacher. That is just not acceptable by anyones standards. However, there does seem to be some level of acceptance when it's highschool students. The reality is....it doesn't matter what the circumstances the teacher is NEVER morally or professionally allowed to touch that student.
All the teachers I know care about their students. I think about the kids in my class all the time. Wondering how little Susie is handling a divorce, does Johnny have someone to read with at home, how was the hockey game that 7 of my boys were in on the weekend, what can I do to make a lesson better and more exiting. It's really a never ending job but I chose that career and I accept the responsibilities that go along with it. I work with some excellent people who I wouldn't hesitate to put my own children with. However, as in all areas of life there are bad apples and if something doesn't seem right, then it probably isn't right and you need to do something about it.
Please remember that most teachers are good people who want to help your children to be successful in the world.
JL Alberta
— Posted on January 14, 2008 04:08 AM
My impression is that our society is becoming increasingly judgemental in a fundamentalist good-versus-evil sense and that CBCs Teacher?s Pet documentary is nurturing this trend. It is not hard to demonize people who make mistakes particularly when it comes to sexual activity that is complexly connected with the need to love and be loved.
Perhaps Hana could do a documentary on the false positives, those students and teachers who became intimate without it ruining their lives. There were a few in the small highschool I went to that were later happily married though their intimacy began on a student-teacher basis. because the social ambiance was not so judgemental there, perhaps, there were other cases of sexual intimacy that didn?t appear to lead to ruined lives, though it's possible that those hurt have kept things quiet.
I don't devalue the emotional anguish of the people SELECTED for the documentary, but I do question the ?fundamentalist judgement of right and wrong that is being applied. One man may make the mistake of carelessly tossing his cigarette butt aside with no great consequences and another man may do the same and start a forest fire that burns his whole town down. Do we say that the latter has caused the destruction of his town, or would it be more appropriate to say that his careless action TRIGGERED something that was waiting to happen, an explosive release of accrued potentials or tensions?
The disaster is real enough and those who find their lives in ruins for perhaps-careless but yet non-malicious actions deserve our empathy and support. What is not so clear is whether our judgement of the perceived ?triggerer? of the disaster should be in proportion to ?the damage done?. That is why it would only be fair for CBC, who has done the ?selecting? in making this documentary, to clarify for us the number and experiences of the ?false positives?, those student-teacher couples who didn?t follow the rules of sexual non-engagement but also didn?t have things ?blow up in their faces?.
Two separate small town abuse cases were looked at here, one the locals would see as “one of those Gay Issues”, and that mustn’t be talked about by “proper folk”. The other, a simple case of the teenage boy who got to “sew his oats with a hot young teacher”. Man! Are small town people that naive or are they just dumb? When a teacher has sex with a child it simply is wrong, end of story.
I applaud both victims for coming forward. Few people have the courage to “step up to the plate” as they did. I too was a victim of sexual abuse in my small town and had to deal with ignoramuses like the two “winners” from dewberry that thought the young 17 year old male wasn’t a victim. Sorry Dewberry, but I think I’ll have that imagine in my head for quite a while.
Dale
— Posted on January 14, 2008 02:29 AM
The case between the female teacher and the 17 year old student was blown way out of proportion. People make the statement that a student of any type, and teacher should not engage in relations. What if the boy was a University student, and had the relationship with the elementary teacher? This would pose no problem in the society even if the boy just turned 18, and was in his first year of study. The fact is, the boy was 17 in his second semester of grade 12, meaning he would have been months away from turning 18. What is the difference in the couple of months between 17 and 18? Absolutely nothing. If people in society will not punish University students that purusue teachers, why punish a near highschool graduate? This kid obviously knew what he was getting into, and instead of dealing with this in a mature way, he decided to cry out and victimize the teacher for an easy way out of the situation.
anonymous undisclosed
— Posted on January 14, 2008 01:25 AM
I think that this segment was biased and very one sided. this is anything BUT professional Journalism.
Hana Gartner showed too much emotion when asking questions.. Hana Gartner had her personal view on the subject glaring through the whole time.. I like to have my own opinion, but there are very gullible people out there and there small brains will be influenced by Hana Gartner personal view..
Anyway the teacher did not do anything illegal, she had sex with a student (not her student) and there was nothing illegal about it, because he was 17 and was able to give consent...and she was NOT in a position of authority to Him. you might think this is sick... but middle eastern men well into there 50s take wives as young as 18 and no one says anything....
Adam V.
— Posted on January 14, 2008 12:04 AM
would you rather the 17 year old boy/young man take advevtage of a 15 year old girl. he is going to have sex with one of them,and he most likely tried at of 15 years.not saying it was right ,but he knew what he was doing .where were you at age 15 to 17?? i was out working for a living at 16 years of age .do you remember does years?16 year olds went to war not so long ago.
stan kelowna
— Posted on January 13, 2008 08:29 PM
I have never been moved to comment on a post before, but after watching this segment tonite, I was so disgusted I felt I had to. Hannah's question to the lawyer as to whether or not the tables would be reversed if it were a male teacher molesting a young girl were dead on...of course the teacher would be nailed to the wall and so too should female teachers who abuse male students. Good grief, was that jury still living with the 50's mentality that "the little women" don't have brains and the strength to stand up to a child when they flirt with us? And what was up with those two hilbilly men who giggled and blushed and practically high-fived each other when asked about S-E-X? I would be interested to ask them if any of their granddaughters have been sexually lured by any of their teachers lately and how they would feel about it. I have a young son in grade school who is destined to be well over 6 feet tall and good looking, should I be worried? I say that the female teacher deserved to lose the life she knew, she literally made her bed and she should lie in it...too bad it isn't in a 6 by 9 jail cell.
Dawn Berry Winnipeg
— Posted on January 13, 2008 08:21 PM
I'm very sorry that in this day and age we, as a society, aren't able to acknowledge that sexual abuse of any nature is a crime. It doesn't matter whether the victim is male or female, 7 or 17. Whenever a person in a position of power is involved in a sexual relationship with someone under their authority who is younger and more vulnerable, there is an imbalance of power significant enough to be characterized as abusive. How can a seveenteen year old boy be expected to make adult decisions when he is being wrongfully influenced by an older person and teacher in his school? As for the two older men interviewed in the program, I can't even begin to comment on how dangerous I find their attitudes.
Jenn Toronto
— Posted on January 13, 2008 08:14 PM
I have just finished viewing the Fifth Estates progam "Teachers Pet". I am concerned with the abuse of vulnerable youth in our education system. I do feel, however, that the juxtaposition of the two events in Teachers Pet in an attempt to portray them as very similar circumstances is manipulative to say the least. The only similarity between the two was that in each there was a person who was a student and a person who was a teacher.
In the first event a very young person, twelve years old and a student of an historically abusive teacher, was victimized by that teacher. In the second the student was months away from being eighteen. He was not a student of the elementary school teacher who could not be seriously regarded as an authority figure that could force him into a relatioship that he didn't want. By all accounts, including his own, this student participated enthusiastically.
In my opinion the attempt to portray these as two similar transgressions is misleading and demeans the trauma suffered by Donna, not to mention the media objectivity of the Fifth Estate.
One can comment on the poor judgement in all respects used by the teacher of Dewberry but surely the loss of her job, breakdown of her marriage and order in her life should, in this instance, be punishment enough. The impression left is that Fifth Estate is dissatisfied with her court aquital and that she should be punished even more severely. What's next, importing laws from some cultures that permit stoning of women to death for adultery?
Al
I was living in the community of Debden when Donna came forward with the information. Donna put herself out there for all the other victims. Good for you. You are a woman with a lot of integrity and you need to be applauded for your actions. You had the courage to put yourself out there and wire yourself to get Marg to finally tell the truth. Too bad the school board could not have taken the time to come to the preliminary hearing to hear the evidence once and for all, instead of suspending Marg with pay.
J M Saskatchewan
— Posted on January 13, 2008 06:38 PM
I wonder If that lawyer would have had the same justification if this boy had been his kid. I know he was doing his job, but his justifications made me sick to my stomach. I have a son who was 17 once, but there is a big difference between a 17 yr old boy having sex with a fellow seventeen year old girl and a TEACHER!!!! If he was the aggressor, was he also reaching into her pockets to pay for all those out of town trips? He not only forced her to have sex, but forced her to pay for the trips, and this 22 year old college woman went along becuse......? You did this town a disservice by putting those two idiots on camera, it would have been better to say nobody could talk to you on camera. I know a story should be balanced, but since these 2 have obviously not seen the inside of a highshcool for some time, they weren't there, so had nothing intelligent or constructive to say as is witnessed by their idiotic comments about boys being boys, and all those vulgar jokes. I wonder how they would feel if it was their son whose life was ruined. sure I think he owns a little responsibility in this, but the bulk falls to the teacher, I wonder why the jury saw it the way they did.
As for the girl, my heart goes out to her, and I hope she has managed to put her life together. As parents, we all make mistakes, and all I could think was that if I was her mother, I would want to take those years back and do things differently.
rose edmonton
— Posted on January 13, 2008 05:15 PM
It may be that the College of Teachers in the provinces involved do not publish Decisions and Reasons of cases that appear before their tribunals. However, it is not the decision of each College. Rather, as in Ontario, the decision to publish is mandatory as regulated by the Ontario Government.
It is time those affected personally and those outraged by this story lobby the governments to legislate mandatory publication of findings of professional misconduct and penalties imposed.
I was greatly disturbed after watching your segment on “Teacher’s Pet”. The story of the young man from Dewberry, AB was shocking because of the double standards. So he enjoyed his sexual encounter, but unless people were listening, he also thought that there was a fairy tale ending to that relationship. The teacher however, knew better. She was an adult, and clearly took advantage of the fact that she had ready access to him and he was a hormonal teenage boy.
It's always easier to blame the victim than have to face reality. This was clearly demonstrated by the imbeciles interviewed in Dewberry. Well, now that their 15 minutes of fame is over, maybe they would like to rethink the asinine comments that they decided to share. Perhaps if the situation was with a female relative and a male teacher, the situation would have been taken as seriously as it should have been in the case of Mr. Anonymous. I don’t believe that Dewberry will be having a huge population boost with those two being the only representatives of the town.
If the teacher was unhappy in her marriage, then she should have left her husband and moved to another city where she could have found someone that was over 18 years.
Instead she chose to carry on with an illegal and morally wrong sexual relationship with a student in the school where she was employed. Was she in a position of authority? Absolutely! Just because she wasn't teaching him directly had no relevance, we need to ask ourselves: "If Mr. Anonymous had committed an infraction, would she have been in a position to discipline him?" the answer is a residing yes.
What the heck was the jury thinking when they let her off? The law was pretty black and white, and she broke it. Her lawyer tried to make her out to be a victim because her teaching license was pulled and her marriage destroyed, frankly that was the very least that could have happened to her. She should have done time in jail too! We need to start holding people accountable for their decisions and actions.
I would also like to clarify that not all teachers are predators lurking in school hallways waiting to abuse children. There are amazing teachers in our schools that make phenomenally positive impacts on our children’s lives. Now we need to work on making sure that we empower all the good teachers to speak out against co-workers that should be tossed in jail for abusing children and the trust that is placed in them. Let's start holding school officials, boards and districts accountable for turning a blind eye to abuse and allowing it to continue.
YB Edmonton
— Posted on January 13, 2008 06:02 AM
I am a disappointed to read the views of some posters who feel that the 17-year old boy was not abused by his female teacher. Indeed our society conditions boys to enjoy sex and to not decline it when consensually offered. As a result, when boys question this stereotype, and confide in others regarding their situation, they are too often congratulated-not consoled. Sadly, prior to receiving extensive training to be an Abuse Prevention Educator with the Canadian Red Cross, I would likely have been a fellow back slapper and I would have been wrong.
Studies of sexual abuse where men are the victims and women are the perpetrators show us that men are subject to the same negative impacts that we would expect women to receive in similar situations. Shame, guilt, anxiety, and confusion can lead to emotional, psychological, relational, and sometimes physical effects that harm boys just as they do females.
Think of it this way. Most boys love candy and can’t say no to it if offered. However, just because they love it, does not mean it is good for them.
The story of female predators in positions of authority has barely been told, and that's because it's an inconvenient truth. Of course, males in authority have abused-- for centuries; however, the myth of the male AS a predator is a libel against men, and I hope other stories (real ones) can now come forward. As a high-school student many years ago, I both heard about, and was a victim of, an abusive teacher who was protected by a cowardly school board, and not charged until 40+ years later. I applaud Hanna Gartner and congratulate CBC for digging up the politically-inconvenient story.
Witheld
— Posted on January 12, 2008 10:03 PM
As a mother, I am not only appalled but also disheartened that the parent's of an abuse victim would agree to send their daughter away and assume she was gay because she was molested by an abusive female teacher. Where is the unconditional love & support from parent's for a traumatized child? Nothing like punishing the victim and allowing the molester to remain free to molest again!!!! Disgusting!!!!
As a teacher, the “female" elementary teacher who Imolested a "male" grade 12 student ought to be ashamed of herself. Regardless if the age, the teacher was in a place of trust and as such she was in the wrong - NOT THE YOUNG MAN! If the reverse had occurred, there would have been a conviction. The fact that the locals & the jury believe that the teacher is not culpable of this crime is appalling.
What is wrong with people these days? Have we no morals? When will we stop blaming the victims for a crime of power & control manifested in sexual abuse-they did not ask to be abused?
Sexual abuse is a CRIME whether the victim is young or old, male or female, or a student.
deb w edmonton
— Posted on January 12, 2008 04:25 PM
In the case of the 17 yr old and his teacher what they did was wrong but time to stop draging them through the mud and kicking them while they are down,and let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone "Jesus".
C L Toronto
— Posted on January 12, 2008 02:46 AM
Thank you for this program. I watched in dread as the subject of the documentary was introduced, then when the teacher's name was said, my stomach sank. I thought it was going to be her, my grade six female teacher named Marge from almost 40 years ago, the lesbian pedophile who made me her teacher's pet so she could seduce me. I thought maybe 'my Marge' had had to leave Vancouver, ended up in small town Sask where she could continue her evil ways on some other poor girl. But no, it was a different Marge, thank god, and I breathed a sigh of relief that I wouldn't have to see her face, and also felt a sickening disgust knowing the woman who abused me has never been brought to justice for what she did and never will. I don't even know if she's still alive.
Anyway, I experienced all the same things: patterns of grooming, building up trust, preying upon my need for love and approval, my low self esteem. Boy she was a good teacher all right. Taught me to mistrust everybody and anybody ever getting close to me. That teacher destroyed a little precious piece of my soul.
It really makes you wonder, how many more like her are out there?
S. T. A. Vancouver
— Posted on January 12, 2008 02:24 AM
I was shocked to see a preview for this episode and confess to staying up to watch it. I was even more shocked to see Donna Bouchard, a former teacher of mine, as one of the "children." My father sexually molested his children, and lives a happy life, in the same town, as a loved local man. I've always had issues with the blind eye small town mentality, and I am extremely relieved to see that it's finally coming out as the vicious, ridiculous, frightening process that it is.
I have to admit, that teachers, students, and community (including church community that my father is a part of), always new what my father had done-and was still doing-and I was to keep quiet and be a good farm girl. Thank you Donna for coming out and telling your story. I hope it reaches everyone, but I sincerely hope it reaches the people living in rural small town "Christian" communities.
Jackie
— Posted on January 12, 2008 02:16 AM
It was good to see the documentary on the abuse of power between those in positions of power over the young and vulnerable and the kind of discussion that this leads to. I had been sitting here looking at the application form and the process I would need to go through should I decide to file a sexual abuse charge for experiences at a residential school I attended as a child. I could not get past the congestion of fear within my chest as I read the process I would need to go through. There was much abuse of power by people in positions of authority in that and other residential schools. There is so much to be said about the innumerable effects of these kinds of situations. I hope these two young people will recover as much as possible so that when they have their own children, that they do not pass on what they have experienced. I know how my own life and that of my sisters has played out. It is difficult to move beyond what we suffer when those who create and cause the suffering are believed more than the vulnerable are believed.
Being a fellow teacher and having known Jocelyn Jaster from our hometown of Lloydminster, I watched this program with special interest. The smug ignorance of her lawyer, the offensive grin she donned after the trial and frequent referal by everyone to her being "petite" and "attractive" infuriated me beyond belief. Perhaps some people would think differently if they knew she was good friends with my once sister-in-law (also a teacher). Both Jocelyn and my then sister-in-law at one point wrote love letters to young male students in their schools and shared these stories with each other. This bizarre attraction they had to younger men - of which they were in positions of authority over - wasn't so innocent as Jocelyn or her lawyer tried to portray. This wasn't simply a poor young teacher who found love in an unfortunate place. It was a twisted infatuation she had with younger men, shared with a close friend of hers, that borders more on pediphelia than a love story.
The fact that the student was a "willing" participant in the relationship does not excuse the inappropriateness or harmfulnes of it. Of course he said he had "the time of his life" during the affair. He was a young boy receiving attention from an older, more mature woman with some "power" in his life. The fact that he has been damaged by this relationship long term brings forward the need to keep in mind that this boy did not have the same capacity to reason, make decisions, or process the intricacies of 'relationships' or power imbalances as an adult. She did. He could not forsee the damage this relationship would cause him long term - when he was able to see it for what it was. This is the reason there are very clear rules about not sleeping with students!
Although the student wasn't in her class, she was most definately in a position of authority in his life. I am in a position of authority over all students in my school, whether or not I teach them directly. It is my job to work with, reprimand or guide any and all students in my school.
I am glad that the two students had the tremendous courage to come forward. The system certainly let them down! As for the young man that was molested by the young, attractive, female teacher, I hope he finishes school and has the future he deserves. I do not believe that the legal system, the lawyer or the two men from the community would have reacted the same if it had been a 17 year old female student with a male teacher even if the teacher was young and attractive. The teacher knew when she took the job that there would be consequences if she had sexual relations with a student. She made advances on the student, she should lose her job, her marriage and she should have gone to jail. If she was so attracted to him she had the choice to leave her marriage and wait until he was not a student and then see if he was interested. There should be no blame attached to the victims or any family members for their reactions of lack of help. Parents and families do the best they can with the knowledge they have. The two teachers are the only ones to blame. Children that are molested stuggle the rest of their lives to overcome the abuse and in some cases go on to molest others because that is what they know. It is still not safe to tell about incidences of abuse as often there are no consequences and further victimization or even worse disbelief and laughter. I am relieved I kept silent and I hope I protected my children.
A.P.
— Posted on January 11, 2008 11:41 PM
Why is it that whenever a female teacher has committed statutory rape, it is seen as a rite of passage for the male child and the teacher usually gets off with a slap on the wrist. However, if the same statutory rape occurs with a male teacher and a female student, they (the teacher)usually get full wrath of the law and community scorn, as well, the student is then seen as a victim?? This is difficult to understand in a society that bases itself on protection of its most vulnerable and accessible its children. We entrust our teachers to care for and protect our children, for 1 in 10 teachers to make unwanted advances toward our children is inexcusable and needs to be investigated further.
I too come from a small Alberta town where abuse took place at one of our middle schools. The male teacher that was accused of having sexual relations at school with a young female middle school student committed suicide after the allegations came out. This only happened a couple of years ago and it's funny... nobody talks about it, it's like it never happened! In fact, this particular school where the abuse took place is considered one of the best places to educate children. There was never even a public apology in the local paper to us as parents regarding this horrible situation. I am still disgusted with how this was all swept under the rug after it was over with. How was this teacher able to have sex with his student in his classroom...how was he able to lock his door and not be interrupted time and time again? Where is the supervision for these children?
Andrea Pitt Alberta
— Posted on January 11, 2008 10:14 PM
I was also a student of Donna Bouchards and looking back she was one of our favourite teachers and I have many fond memories of being in her class. I am sad for all she has gone through in her life - but amazed that she has continued to hold herself with such grace and goodness through all of her trials. She was always someone to admire and all of her students appreciated everything she gave us. I have very few teachers that I can honestly say that about.
Raising a ten year old daughter, shows like this send my mind reeling. What message are we giving our children? Predators get away with these acts by using shame and guilt - how is a teenager to cope with sexual relations with someone in power? Neither victim in this show received the justice they deserved - therefore what is the outcome for the next victim? Suicide or a lifetime of bad dreams and self torture?
In many institutions in Canada we are forced to undergo criminal or social service checks. What mandate do we have for our teachers - the people who educate our children? Who spend countless hours molding young minds. If it is the truth that 1 in 10 children are subject to an innappropriate sexual relationship with a school employee - something must be done.
As for the old men in Dewberry - I feel sorry for the young man who had to endure these attitudes. Closed and ignorant minds are what got our society to the place where predators are able to get away with these unlawful acts on our children.
Deanna Edmonton
— Posted on January 11, 2008 06:50 PM
Likely the largest benefit of airing this story is that whatever community Margaret Carruthers resides in, people there will hopefully realize there is a sexual predator living in their midst, and should ensure to take precautions to protect their children from this manipulative dangerous paedophile.
Dr. Roch Winnipeg
— Posted on January 11, 2008 03:23 PM
Any sexual abuse by adults in authoritive positions
should result in loss of certification/licenses and
impose a minimum 1-yr of imprisonment as an "automatic
sentence" to each and every person who violates those
persons under the legal age limit and/or the mentally challenged, or the elderly persons of OUR communities.
Ignorance is not an excuse so "Shame on you" I say,to
the parents of Ms.Bouchard.
Thank-you to the victims, for having the courage
to present their raw emotions in a public way for all
Canadians to be educated on these life-altering issues.
Child abuse by teachers is a very serious issue. As a parent I had no choice but to watch the program when I heard about it. However, I was disappointed, and it was the first time that I was disappointed by the Fifth Estate.
It is unfortunate that you chose two cases that had nothing in common, one being real child abuse, the other a sick joke. I understand that you may have been trying to expose the 'double standard' of society not taking male victims seriously. But the gender is not the main issue here, although gender differences in human species are well documented by science. The 'kid' was seventeen!!!! He can get a driver's licence, sentenced in adult court for crimes, but he is not old enough to choose who he has sex with?
Here's a question for you Hana: do you think, if the teacher were 55 years old, 250 lb, do you think Mr. Anonymous would have become her 'victim'? I am sorry to be crude to make my point, but I was disappointed that you failed to acknowledge a lot of common-sense points that were made by the lawyer, and yes, even the two gentlemen interviewed in town. It was as if you were on a mission, and nothing would stand on your way.
Student-teacher relationships are always wrong; I think nobody on this board is arguing otherwise. Mr. anonymous' relationship with his teacher was not 'right'. It should not be acceptable. But did anybody say that it was acceptable? She was fired, stripped of her teaching licence, humiliated, lost her husband. So she got found not-guilty on a criminal trial, and that is somehow wrong? What is this, middle ages? Did you want her to burn at the stake?
Violence against the child's body; violence against the child's mind; violence through entrapment and estrangement; violence against the child's emotions; violence against the child's integrity; and violence against the child's spirit. What is left when a child cries out for help with so little left of him or herself? Child sexual abuse is crippling.
To both victims, I am sorry you had to go through this. Clearly, both of you were significantly damaged by the abuse and subsequent ignorance of those who may have been able to help had they known better. You both appear to have an inner strength of character that seems quite sterling is my observation.
I am ashamed to be from Alberta. It seems that nothing has changed in fifty years. My siblings (and I), plus many friends were subjected to physical and verbal abuse from a teacher in rural Alberta. Nobody helped us. Our parents told us to deal with it ourselves. The Pincher Creek School Board turned a blind eye. The only thing we didn't have was a sleazy lawyer. The two old codgers on the street give new meaning to the term Neanderthal.
While watching this show, I was inwardly cringing with shame, as we were a part of a community that looked the other way. In weak defense, we just did not/could not believe that it could be happening.
In a small rural town where everyone knows everyone, it is very dangerous to make an allegation and maybe falsely accuse someone for something that you THINK they might be doing. If you are wrong, it takes years for people to forget your trouble-making ways. In hindsight, we did the wrong thing by saying nothing.
If there were any way of going back and altering those decisions, I know that there are many of us, who would do exactly that. Today, people are much more apt to have the courage to come forward or at the very least, contact the authorities. In the 80's, that was a rare occurrence.
Thankfully, we are all much more educated in such matters now. Sadly, as was evident last night, the victims are still being victimized.
I also applaud the 2 young people involved, for their courage and tenacity. I do hope that they find peace and can forgive those that did not help them when they should have.
JJ Saskatchewan
— Posted on January 10, 2008 05:43 PM
A loud, long standing ovation for Donna and the young man. Both victims of the serious crime of sexual assault. Violated by teachers before their brains were even fully developed.
Sexual assault is a crime that belies an attitude of opportunity and entitlement. What does a teacher's petit statue have to do with anything? Sexual Assault is a crime involving the use of control, manipulation and or violence by the offender to subjugate the will of the victim in order to abuse his or her genitalia and or other body parts for the sole purpose of the personal expression of the offender. Subjugate: To bring under complete control or subjection, conquer, master. To make submissive or subservient. Enslave. (Webster's)
How obtuse can a town, a community, a lawyer, the perpetrators be? A real testament to the courage of the victims, I propose. The broader landscape of the nation was not fooled. Nor do we choose to be foolish. Both victims were harmed in very significant ways and it was deliberate as the teachers served themselves of them.
Unless you are a true victim to abuse, you can't fully understand. I do. FULLY. I am a victim of sexual and physical abuse, I beleive both go hand in hand. Ms. Bouchard was absolutely right when she said POWER and CONTROL, and we get sucked in to it and become very sick ourselves, to the point that we are sinking very fast, as if in quicksand, and don't know how to come out.
My heart goes out to both victims - Donna and Mr. Anonymous - they were the true victims. Both teachers absolutely make my stomach turn. One free and another one free - 1 years is not a sentence.
I was aware of Marg Carruthers, I knew her. I always thought there was something strange about this person and how much time she spent with her students. One was my sister in law.
As for the two men from Drewberry, these are not gentlemen - they are sick themselves. Turn the tables, if it was your daughter - would you put on a sickening laugh - if I could have, I would have reached into my TV set and slapped them both - they made me sick.
Donna and Mr. Anonymous do what I have done to recover - hold your head up high - don't go down to others levels, I have attended self help groups and now I facilitate them. The best therapy I can offer is to help others.
As for Donna's parents, what can I say about the Catholic Religion - is there not enought about that on the news.
Lorrie Alberta
— Posted on January 10, 2008 02:34 PM
It is most horrifying that a person with such authority as a teacher is able to rationalize having any type on sexual relation with a student. Whether the student is from their class room or from another school, having any type of romantic or sexual relation with a student is wrong. We are suppose to be able to trust our teachers to protect their student from harm, not cause them ever lasting pain by sexually assaulting them.
It shouldn't make a difference if the student was seducing the teacher, as was said them the case of the 17 year old male. The teacher should have enough will power and common sense to know that it is wrong. If for some reason that this feelings are so strong then they should wait until after high school graduation before even contemplating any type of intimate relationship.
What is even more disgusting then the abuse is who the school officials are covering it up. There goes schools being safe for our children.
Chantelle
— Posted on January 10, 2008 02:06 PM
After reading other's comments there are a few things I would like to say.
First the Dewberry case - I understand that the 17 year old was enjoying the relationship and his situation wasn't the same as Donna's abuse, but the fact remains that TEACHERS SHOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH STUDENTS! Though the teacher wasn't the young man's teacher, I'm sure if he was rude or disrespectful towards her or if she caught him doing something against school rules, she would have the authority to see that proper measures were taken and he would face some sort of consequences. That in itself holds her in a place of authority!
I see the fact that she was not HIS teacher as irrelevant. As for her lawyer and those "men" in Dewberry - they absolutely disgusted me and I can see how those sort of attitudes make it hard for victims to come out. It would not only put shame on the victim, but on the family as well. I am furious that the lawyer feels it was unjust that his client 'lost everything.' Please - she should lose her teaching certification.
As a nurse, if I ever did such a thing, I would absolutely have my license revoked and would be thrown in jail! It's ludicrous...Just like the education student, in school I was also taught what is appropriate/inappropriate in relationships with patients.
As a professional, I am to maintain a therapeutic and professional relationship with all patients - not just the ones under my care for the shift! If the teacher was attracted to the young man, why didn't she wait for a year until he was done school? Though it still may have caused some waves in Dewberry, there wouldn't have been the teacher-student aspect of it. I was really disheartened to hear about the responses from the community of Dewberry.
I would hope that such a small community would come together and support one of their own. Instead they have inflicted shame on the victim and his family and dirty old men are allowed to voice their dirty thoughts - they couldn't even articulately answer the questions. I think they are the ones that are 'horny horny' and have the raging hormones!
Now as for Donna's story in Debden....my heart really goes out to her and I was shocked when she told me her story herself. I was able to see the impact of her experience first hand and it absolutely crushed me. Though I understand the questions of 'where were her parents'; 'why didn't they support her'; 'who lets their children spend the nights with teachers'...I can only imagine how shocked the Bouchards were when they found out.
It was at a time where any kind of same-sex relations weren't discussed and as it was mentioned, Debden was a predominantly French Catholic community. It is important to remember that Marg Caruthers fooled EVERYBODY! Indirectly her abuse went far beyound the students. Marg was manipulative and obviously well-rehearsed at covering her actions. Like Donna said, Marg would make her ideas make sense. Yes it is not right for a student to spend the night at a teacher's, but it appeared as Marg would make it seem ridiculous for the Bouchard's to come into town to pick up Donna after an evening practice. Also they probably thought it was safe because it was a female teacher. I'm sure they wouldn't have thought the same with a male teacher.
Again this goes to the fact that same-sex relations were very much taboo. And look what happened when Donna's parents approached the principal and education board - Donna was the one sent away. That in itself is a reflection of the views of Debden. Talk about a slap in the face. At the time it was happening to Donna, her word didn't appear to be enough, but 10 years after Donna's voice was sufficient and she was the one asked to confront her demons. The principal and education board should be ashamed of themselves.
Donna's story reminded me of something that happened in my extended family. My grandparents frequently befriended priests and had them over for several meals. Some of my cousins were alter boys and would go with the priest to funerals etc. Seems innocent enough to travel in a car with a priest, right?! I mean who wouldn't trust a priest who has been invited into the family's home and was supportive during family deaths. Unfortunately for my cousins, the car rides to other small towns and Churches was NOT safe for them. My point is that such professions should be trustworthy; they shouldn't be feared!
I am so proud with the success Donna has had in her life. She was an outstanding teacher and many of my former classmates were touched by her story and couldn't believe that she hid her experience so well. Many never suspected a thing and over 10 years after graduation, still praise their favourite teacher Miss Bouchard. Donna's determination will undoubtedly make her a strong lawyer - hopefully justice will finally be served!
Former students of SAA salute Donna and are so proud of her bravery.
Chantal Calgary
— Posted on January 10, 2008 01:01 PM
The Donna Bouchard incident and "Mr.Anonymous" should have been aired as two different stories.
The 17 year old stud was well aware of his relationship with his young teacher. He went after what he yearned for and he got it. When she became pregnant, he would have been on the hook for child support, so he yelled "ABUSE." (In Alberta, legal age is 18.) The fact is that he enjoyed the sex as long as it was free.
As for Donna Bouchard, I felt deep pain for her. I'm convinced she was an innocent victim who (at the time the indidents unfolded) never had intentions of having a sexual relationship with an older woman.
As for the older people who see no harm in teacher-student intimate relations. Keep in mind that in the 50's and 60's, it was quite common for high school students to have sexual (and other) relations with their teachers. There was a good reaason, many high school teachers (prior to 1965) only required a one year course at "Normal" school.
This meant that the teacher was often only slightly more than a year older than Grade 12 students. Today, things have changed, however the CBC should also look at it's own role it plays in broadcasting a lot of "undesirable" material.
Johnny Jesus Saskatchewan
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:55 PM
It's funny how the double standard still exists. It is not seen as serious when it is a female teacher to seduce a male student but if it were the other way around it is scandalous.I don't think age matters in a case like this it is the balance of power that occurs. I really feel for the young man in Dewberry as much as the girl in Debden. I'm sure he felt powerless. The teacher had the position of authority and should not have abused it.
Watching this program made me see red. What is wrong with our country that we protect the teachers and shame the students. Thank you Hanna for a job well done. It makes me feel better that these two "educators" have now had their names and faces made public. Perhaps that is the best revenge.
Jo Calgary
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:39 PM
This story really hit home. I have strong family links to Debden and the principal of the school in Debden, Leon Bonneau, is my uncle.
I was horrified while watching this program, but was not suprised that the school system did nothing to protect or help Donna Bouchard. I was also appalled by the actions of the parents. What were you thinking?
As for the "good ol' boys" in Dewberry, what a disgusting display of ignorance. I was embarrassed for them.
Michelle Saskatchewan
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:39 PM
People are always quoting the age of the people concerned in this situations and in the case of the young male, they bring up his height too. All of this is completely irrelevant.
The only relevant point is that ANYONE in a position of authority (not only teachers), whether 20 years or 1 year older than their victims, has the responsibility to conduct themselves in a proper adult & humane manner.
This worn out phrase of "I couldn't help myself; it just happened" shows these people for what they really are ... complete animals on the search for prey.
It's time people everywhere started to put pressure on the proper authorities.. be it school board, principal, community organization head or whatever .. that these perps be forced to answer for their actions and no longer be protected while their victims are even further traumatized.
After reading the first 28 comments, I am surprised that no one has questioned the judgement of the administration and the people who hired these two individuals to pray on young children. In our school division, many of the board members had some type of familial relation with several of the teachers within the division. Of course that was before we began to elect school board members. I would not be surprised to learn that members of the board may have had some type of aquaintance with the teacher in Dewberry, or that maybe she even grew up in a nearby community.
In the school where my 4 children attend there are several married couples, brothers and sisters, and former students of the school that teach there. Is there really a shortage of good qualified teachers out there that don't want to live somewhere where they don't know anyone?
Our boards and administrators need to be looked at as well. In both these cases, if it were me, I would have named them also as accomplises in these unlawful acts.
Our education system is very screwed up and accountability has to start somewhere. Let's get our superintendants to take responsibility for the actions of their employees as well as the teachers unions if they are not going to give more severe punishments to their members. I'll bet both those teachers could go to the US and find a job and more victims.
co alberta
— Posted on January 10, 2008 10:53 AM
The small town attitude of those old men out west is dispicable and yet does not surprise me in the least. Some of us just haven't grown up yet and are content to hide from reality and belittle the ones who choose to face it. Society in general needs to shake its collective head and stand up for what's right.
The law (Canadian Criminal Code) states - position of trust and/or authority AND under 18 years of age. When we ignore abuse at this level, it tells teachers they are above the law.
I commend the two victims for the courage it took to tell their stories on the Fifth Estate and I believe that through their enormous emotional pain will come pride and personal growth. A sense of personal power and inner satisfaction will come from within when a victim speaks out regardless of the limp-wristed role of the Criminal Justice System and the backwards thinking of ill-informed. Your courage today will inspire others to speak out and bring abusers to task.
Hana congratulated the Ontario College of Teachers for having a website that makes public some of the cases it hears. HOWEVER, Zero tolerance should mean that,especially once convicted in a criminal court of law, that abuser should never again be permitted to teach our children and young people.
Unfortunately, the OTC allows such people to reapply for their certification and that fact puts our children in jeopardy everyday. Is your school-aged-child at risk, and like the cases mentioned on this broadcast, how would you know until it's too late ??
First I would like to comment I admire Donna Bouchard's courage and strength of character, although she might feel as I do after viewing the Fifth Estate program that justice wasn't really served.
Her abuser got one (1) year, and that's it??
This underscores a disparity in our justice system - can you imagine what sentence a male teacher would get for sexually abusing multiple 12 year old female students?
Worse, Margaret Carruthers isn't listed on any sex offender list, she is free to continue her sexually abusive ways.
The other disturbing aspect of this program is the secrecy which all provincial school baords (except Ontario) use to cover up and deny anything is wrong.
Yet in Ontario where sex crimes against teachers are reported, there are not just a few, but HUNDREDS!
If I knew Donna Bouchard's address I would send her some flowers.
Roch Winnipeg
— Posted on January 10, 2008 09:19 AM
My letter is in response of the last night program "Teacher's pet". I have to say Ms Gartner, what a waste of talent working for CBC. I hope you will get call from National Enquirer soon. All those juicy morsels!
How appropriate at this time, when teachers do fear threats made by students and teacher's personal safety is jeopardized. Makes you wonder who the real victims are.
The best point of the whole show was, when it was all summarized by two old men from Dewberry, Alberta.
I live only 20 minutes north of Dewberry. Chances are I know the young man you interviewed, but I don't ever remember hearing a lot about this scandal.
When I was in high school my older brother began dating the librarians' aide. He was in grade 12 and she was only a couple years older. they kept their relationship a secret for a while but when spring graduation came up, he wanted her to be his escort.
She was told it was inappropriate and she could not be his escort. She was also fired. A few years later, a boy (who went to school with my younger sister) spent a lot of time in the library with the librarian ( who was recently divorced and about 12 years older). Everyone knew. No one said anything. Today, 15 years later, he is the principal and she is still the librarian. What a joke!
My children attend this school. (Yes, I live in my home town.) Some of the staff that were there 15 years ago are still there. My children know the story, how do you explain to them that it is inappropriate behaviour when clearly it must be okay because it was allowed. This is a high school!
The teachers are supposed to have some kind of morals, but we let them teach our kids not only the three "R"s but how to turn a blind eye to something that is not only morally wrong but against the policies the the Alberta Teachers Association sets forth. It is very difficult to have a teacher removed from their position no matter how many complaints are placed against them, no matter how serious the matter.
Sexual misconduct is not the only thing that teachers turn a blind eye to. Most of the bullying that occurs in schools is ignored, or said to be less than what it is. There is no accountability for teachers. Parents have no authority in schools, and boards (at least ours) does not work with the parents in the division. Teachers either protect each other or prefer to believe nothing is going on. What a shame!
I am a therapist working with victims of crime, trauma survivors of many childhood and often subsequent abusive situations.. some of the most difficult situations are when vulnerable children, I believe generally ones that seen as more susceptable to the charm, influence, power, kindness.. whatever; and then 'groomed' into relationships of sexual impropriety by these adults..adults who clearly are in positions of power; create some of the deepest wounds for many of my clients.. the ones that continue to cling to a belief that the teacher 'really loved them' or that their special connection superceded 'right or wrong'..or was different.. this is true with average students; student who stood out as athletes (as in your documentary); students that are gifted in the arts..students with exceptional academic ability; teachers have a role as mentors for students.. and the rate of incidence of abuse of the role; sexual abuse from that role.. is wholly unacceptable.. the students carry those scars forever.. the damage done affects their ability to go forward into healthy normal relationships..with themselves and with others.
Why are these cases presented only the 'tip of the iceberg'? I believe in the cases that I work with, the students continue to protect those that abused them.. that in turning the 'camera' on what happened and calling it abuse, it changes their whole relationship with thier childhood.. many of their 'feel good about themselves' memories.. even when these same memories sharply conflict with other realities, leaving these folks feeling split.. the good past and the bad past.. holding responsibility for the actions of the adults in thier impressionable childhood.
The fact that the legal system and indeed the criminal justice system tends to mock the victims.. is completely unjust and only serves to keep more victims from coming forward.. and continues to protect those that would prey on our children. My heart hurts for all the untold stories that your broadcast resonates with.
Shelley M
— Posted on January 10, 2008 01:33 AM
Well done for the most part but the two cases had more differences than similarities. Both cases are but vague points on a spectrum of 3SD - Sex in the School System Disorder. Sexual Abuse is just one of those points on that spectrum.
I suggest that the young male student and the young female teacher may both have been acting age and sexually appropriately but in the wrong place and in legally incompatible roles. How would these two have been dealt with had it been an office romance? Hormones are hormones.
On the other hand, an older woman teacher and a young girl student? No where near age and/or sexually appropriate! How would these two have been dealt with had it been a mother and daughter? Neighbour and neighbour?
LGC
— Posted on January 10, 2008 01:27 AM
Thirty-six years after my "relationship" with a male teacher turned sexual (I was 14) I retain a feeling under my skin that I was bad/wrong/stupid - until I look at my kids and my friends' kids and see how young 14 is (15,16, 17 and 18 for that matter)...
A teacher having any kind of sexual activity with a kid, male or female, is an idiot and an abuser and should not be teaching. Seeing how the communities of Dewberry and Degden shun the kids in your documentary reminds me why I have also been a coward not coming forward all these years. What's the use?
And yes, I too have been depressed and suicidal. I cannot even write this note without getting twisted into self-blaming, self-doubting and confusion. And, I thought I had reached forgiveness...
I think the attitude in regards to female on male sexual abuse is horrible. The lack of interest in prosecuting or even arguing the case for the male children in the custody of the female adult abuser resonates yet another avenue of ignorance in the ongoing tragedy and sickness that is sexual abuse.
The long term damage that is a result of sexual abuse is tragic, not just for the current victims of this abuse but the daily lives/relationships of the victims and abusers families. This is not just going to 'go away'.
Action needs to be taken with a 'zero tolerance' policy for the abusers.
R V Vancouver
— Posted on January 10, 2008 01:09 AM
Wow, what a great show. I am a teacher and have been a victim of sexual abuse. Before, I go further NOT from a teacher. However, if teachers and students were educated on the long term effects. The age development and sexuality development at high school is NO way the same as a college or more differently an older person.
Teachers that abuse students rights, should have stronger sentencing and should have to sit in on some victim panels of victims from any abuse. If schools educated students about the harm from this what they say as innocent relationship as much as they caution children to internet safety- maybe we can save some one.
I used to work in Alberta, and now working in US schools believe that it is the silent topic. I am certain it is going on more than we realize, and that frightens me. My abuse came from my father and it has taken years of recovery and counselling to heal from the damage an older and wiser person should have had.
Thanks and keep publishing things like this. We have got to stop any of this kind of situation.
D.M.
— Posted on January 10, 2008 01:05 AM
My 2 sisters and I were molested by our father. I was molested by him until I was 15, my younger sister 21. When we were older 2 of us wanted to have him charged, but our younger sister said no. She said we had suffered enough and would only suffer more by having him charged, she figured we would only be humiliated more and I knew she truly couldn't handle going through it so we did nothing.
After watching this show it just proved her point that only the victim suffers! On your show the one teacher gets off, the other gets what 2 years and only has to serve 1/2 of her sentence....I just don't understand our society, why with so much abuse going on are our laws not changed? Do people not understand how much the victim suffers? Does society truly believe that just because the abuse is over the victim life is magically perfect, that they will now have a "normal life".
Well I'm almost 50 now and the past still haunts me! The only conclusion I can come up with is that the people who can change the laws in this country must abusers themselves and that is why our laws don't change and that is why these pretators are still getting off time and time again!
signed
A victim who hopes one day laws will justice will be served
Paula Alberta
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:41 AM
Psychologists define sexual abuse as "the forcing of undesired sexual acts by one person to another."
I can clearly see that the girl was a victim of sexual abuse since she was implicitly forced to submit to her teacher's acts.
However, the 17 year old school guy was in no way sexually abused. For one, the teacher was not teaching him, which indicates that there was no use of a position of trust for sexual purposes. Secondly, the guy was enjoying the relationship. Not only did he go to see his secret lover in her class room (as he confessed), but also enjoyed hanging out with her off town.
He only reported the issue after she got pregnant and had no plan to report it before that or just stop seeing her. He was physically stronger and could in no way be forced to have sex. I blame the teacher for not abiding by the rules of the education system, but other than that, this was a very healthy relationship (not considering that she was cheating on her husband, that's another issue).
YG Calgary
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:36 AM
The story of Teacher's Pet greatly affected me tonight. Stories like this always do, and yet, we still seem to bury it in the back of our minds because...it's not us who are fragile and being taken advantage of.
I want to thank Hanna for investigating this subject and asking the questions that needed to be asked, even if some chose not to answer them.
I hope other girls can watch this and know that they will never be alone and there can always be someone there willing to help them in any way they can. Even if they can't be face to face.
I am so happy that Donna has finally had an outlet to tell her story. As a former student of Donna's, I can see that it was her determination to overcome her experience that made her such a phenomenal teacher who impacted many lives. I wish her all the best with all her future endeavours.
Chantal
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:25 AM
It is neither the twelve year old girl nor the seventeen year old boy that should carry any shame. What happened to them was NOT their fault. This was clearly an abuse of power and authority and age has nothing to do with it! If anyone should carry any shame, along with the predators, it should be those like the two elderly men that were laughing and making a joke out of something that devastated the lives of two potential youth. Any lawyer who protects such abusers is very WRONG!
Wendy Alberta
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:22 AM
This episode should be required viewing for every teacher, school administrator and board member, every education prof and education student in Canada. Perhaps then a few more would shed the myth that teachers' morals are strictly private matters that have zero relevance to their professional competence. Where might we learn how many of the 130 teachers in Ontario who have been disciplined for sexual contact with students were found criminally responsible?
Al H
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:20 AM
Thank you, Hana Gartner, for reporting this story. I truly hope that towns large and small realize that when there is even a suspicion of sexual misconduct, it should be looked into.
It doesn't matter the size of the teacher, that young man has had several years robbed from him because a petite and pretty teacher took advantage of her student. I'm not a violent person, but I really wanted to knock the heads of the two old men together. It was no laughing matter and I'm sure that they would see differently if it were their daughters or granddaughters. They seemed to think that a man could never be abused. No wonder people stay silent.
My heart also went out to Donna. Again, 10 years have been taken from her with a sense of shame. She should not have been made to leave town. The teacher should have been ridden out of town on a rail as far as I'm concerned. Her short sentence may as well say "Your trauma was very trivial!" A young woman tried to kill herself because she couldn't count on anyone to stand by her. Thank God for her sister!
Patti Whte Calgary
— Posted on January 10, 2008 12:15 AM
I think it is absolutely disgusting that Mrs. Jaster or whatever her name was got off on all charges. She was the adult, he was the student irregardless of him being only seventeen. I am just disgusted with the jury who let this woman off. Her looking all smug like she was the victim here. She will pay her dues, maybe not in jail but she will pay one way or another.
As far as the other story I am disgusted in her parents who just swept this under the carpet & wanted it to be kept hush hush. They should have been there for her in her time of need & tried to understand what this had done to her even if they didn't really understand it. As a parent you owe it to your children to keep them safe. Why would you let your young daughter spend so much time spending nights with her teacher in the first place?????? She just didn't spend enough time in jail.
Am I angry about this, you bet I am!!!! Even though we become survivors from these autrosities done to us the thoughts eventually don't paralize us anymore but we still & always will be reminded in one way or another what these people have done to us while they move on with their lives like nothing ever happened. It would make anyone furious if they walked a mile in our shoes.
Any adult who sexually assaults children needs to have consequences. Unfortunately, it didn't happen in the court of law but eventually there will be consequences for their actions. I truelly believe that.
As for the victims, hold your heads up high, know you are loved and in the best way you can, move on with your lives so you can show them you won no matter what, you are survivors & for that you are truelly blessed. I know because I was a victim but now I am a true survivor & so are the two of you.
God Bless you both!!!!!!
I'm sure this happens more often than we think. I think a lot of teachers, or some teachers, enter the teaching profession just to have that advantage of being closer to their victims. Unfortunately, in most cases, the victims are often very vulnerable, they dont have the confidence in themselves and are often scared to say anything.
Cherie
— Posted on January 9, 2008 11:44 PM
A real injustice was done to the young man in Dewberry. If the town wants to be ashamed of someone they should be ashamed of the two good old men with the wink wink nudge nudge attitude. It is people like them that give us the lax attitude the courts seem to have about sexual abuse. I hope that when these men see themselves on the program they are truly embarrassed.
Carol Alberta
— Posted on January 9, 2008 11:20 PM
What happened to Donna in the town Debden is absolutely horrible. I cannot even imagine the terror that Donna lived and probably still lives each and every day since these malicious actions from her teacher.
Unfortunately, the past cannot be changed but the future is still in our hands. If one good thing can come from the Debden story, I hope that other children will be protected when there are such suspicions as in Donna's situation.
As in the Debden and Dewberry stories, I hate to see communities divided when it comes to child abuse. The fact remains that our children need our help. As an educator and a parent, I strongly believe that we must protect our children.
Years ago our small city had the reality of dealing with a male teacher who had abused many young boys, most of them around the age of 11 or 12. It was not believed when the first student alleged abuse by this teacher, because the student was a "troubled" boy. This man got support from religious organizations even after he was accused by several boys a few years later.
This coalition of faith followers sheltered him, wrote a letter in the local paper telling the community that forgiveness was the key. A fellow co-worker at his school had sounded the alarm bell years before knowing something just was right about this man and some students. No one did a thing.
Only when there was too much evidence from a former student who was now an adult who came forward to tell of his abuse did this teacher get charged. That seems to be the norm, it seems we are not listening to the children, and the abusers seem to know who to target.
When I myself was in high school I had a male teacher who would slip his hand under my arm from behind and touch my breast. When I went to the principal his only suggestion was for me to drop the class. The principal said clearly that he would not speak to my teacher regarding my complaint. I finished my grade 12 year one credit short. Years later this same teacher, who was now retired was charged with molesting his grandchildren. I am unaware of the outcome of that case.
Monica Saskatchewan
— Posted on January 9, 2008 11:16 PM
What is wrong with society? This type of abuse has gone on for 100's and probably 1000 of years or more. The Justice System is still protecting these loathing human beings.
This has been going on in my family for over a hundred years that I know of. My grandfather on my mother's side molested several of his grandchildren,two that I know of for certain and I am sure there were a lot more. I have a cousin that has been found guilty and spent time in prison.
One of my cousin's husband also molested his children. My sister and myself were molested by my sister's husband and he also molested his daughter until she was 17 years. He admitted to it and his wife is still with him. I ask myself how she can sleep with a man that molested his daughter. I am the only one in my family that has refused to be in contact with him.
We are eight girls in my family but they refused to take a stand because they did not want to defame the family name. Part of this denial was because my family comes from a French, Roman Chatholic brainwashed group. Obviously I am not accepted very well with my sisters. I will do anything I can to fight against this blinded society. I am comfortable to speak in public about my terrifying experience. If you know of any way I can do more, plese let me know.
After just finishing watching your doc. Teachers Pet. I couldn't help but wonder if the two men in Dewbury, who thought it funny about the female teacher and young male student, if it had been a male teacher and one of their daughters or kin in someway, that they would have laughed and joked the same way. As well in Debden, had it been a male teacher. Is our society really that low still today. The system stinks.
In watching tonight's documentary, I am appalled to hear about the outcomes and how the victim (now 27 year old male) was instead the perpetrator, and the teacher was viewed as the victim. Teacher's have a responsiblity and authority to teach the children of the future, not to take advantage of their emotions and prey on them. I have a 7 month old son. My fear is that our school systems will not take my child(s) seriously in the future. What is our society coming to?
Thank you for broadcasting a very real event to show society what goes on behind closed doors.
I would like to start by saying that ANY sexual relationship between a student/teacher where there is a DIRECT tutorial interaction is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!
The teacher/coach who molested that poor girl should have had a much harsher sentence imposed, been banned from teaching and registered as a sexual predator. Who knows how many lives that monster has irreparably damaged.
As for the guy's story... while the outcome of the relationship was less than appealing, the guy himself admitted to having the time of his life! until she got pregnant...
The only harm that came to him was the worry over being a father at a young age. That woman, while questionable in judgment, had NO POWER over him at all. She couldn't affect his grades, expel him or effectively coerce him in any way. She was A teacher, not HIS teacher.
Besides, look at the environs... living in a decidedly small town of a few hundred, how many people is someone going to meet in the right age range for a sexual relationship that isn't a relative, employer/employee or genuinely inapropriate? A dozen maybe??
As a side note to the guys story, in high school, I was approached by one of my teachers when I was 16. She was very good looking but the WAY she approached me made me feel wrong and I said no. She never took any bad actions against me or put pressure on me, but when I turned her down she said 'No one's going to hear about this, right?' I said 'who's going to believe me?' and her reply was... 'You're absolutely right.' and turned her back on me. THAT hurt. I actually liked her before that.
So the guy got a love letter from a woman that happened to be in the same school he was attending; if he had said no or the woman was a secretary no one would have heard squat. He should count his blessings.
Signed.. just another Guy.
Mike toronto
— Posted on January 9, 2008 11:02 PM
I was apalled by the female teacher's lawyer. Clearly he knows nothing about abuse and blames the victim. I work with victims of sexual abuse and it affects them for a lifetime. No matter what the age or situation, anyone in a position of authority should not be having a sexual relationship with someone they have power over.
I applaud Hana for not telling that guy what a complete an utter moron he is. It shows the Fifth Estate's willingness to represent all sides of the story. By the way, she didn't have everything taken from her. She was an adult who made a choice and knew the consequences of that choice, she lost everything herself. She is not a victim and I don't know how that lawyer lives with himself.
Christine
— Posted on January 9, 2008 10:56 PM
This was two very heart breaking stories. The woman teacher gets away with molesting a 17 year old boy, I do not care if he was as big as a man, everyone knows that he was still a boy and easliy manipulated with sex at a very imarture age by a very adult mature person in authority at a school.
The worse thing is that these things happen in small towns where most adults living within these communities live like it is the 1950's and they make their children respect all authority to a fault. And it seems that these predators know this and settle in these places. Teachers have had a higher education (then most of the residents) then they must be wonderful and be respected. It just makes me sad for all small town children.
We had a girl in high school that everyone knew was having an affair with a high school teacher, everyone knew, he was married and she was 15 years old. We also had a high school teacher (male) who paid way too much attention to the young girls. I was one of them that he was attracted to, but I never let anything happen.
I finished school early and my friends where still finishing the year and I came back for a high school dance, that teacher was there he asked me to dance I said okay, everything was fine then the song ended and the lights went out and he grabbed my breasts, I was in shock I ran off the dance floor. I wonder what he has done to other girls before me or after me. I was 18 and finished school so I guess he thought I was a good target, and that he could get away with it, I couldn't charge him but was it proper NO.
Michele Ottawa
— Posted on January 9, 2008 10:41 PM
I sit here crying for these two children. My daughters went through school in the eighties and I am more than sure that I would have been asking questions about any teacher that invited my child to their home on a one to one basis. I blame the parents of this girl for their lack of involvement in their daughters life.
The attitude of the two old men that you interviewed is both disgraceful and disgusting. I am ashamed for them. As for the lawyer and jury that aquitted this petite, married teacher, I hope you sleep well at night and that you never have to deal with this in your family. For these two students I hope that they truly know that the whole system failed them but know that there are lots of parents out there that feel their pain. Bless you..
I am a student enrolled in Concurrent Education at Queen's University and have recently graduated from high school. In many cases, it is rediculous to assume that a fault such as sexual relations between teacher and student lie only in the hands of the teacher, simply on the base of "authority."
I can say with confidence that even those students who are "immature" know what is right and what is wrong, especially by the last few years of high school. It is the student's personal choice as well as a teacher's - especially when the teacher is not phisically threatening or forceful.
On the other hand, all teachers know the guidlines concerning student relations. That is one of the first topics we covered in University - even before the "teaching aspect" of education; how to avoid allegations. In other words, both should face the consequences of his/her action - it takes two to tango.
Kristine Kingston
— Posted on January 9, 2008 10:14 PM
I am so sorry you didn't portray at LEAST the woman teacher that forced herself onto that young girl as a PEDOFILE. She is. I gather that you didn't find that she had any other relationship with "older women". She just liked young vulnerable girls. Not a lesbian - but a PEDOFILE!
The other teacher that put herself forward to the strapping young 17 year old knew he would be a willing subject. She, you reported, was married...one can only suspect not a happy one. Yes she played on his hormones - and perhaps it was only when he found out she was pregnant he felt trapped and the money thing came about how would he support her etc. He was of age to drive a car at 16. He has a mind to know who he "drive's". No gun to his head, literally.
The female victim of the pedofile woman was not of age to drive a car and was a TRUE victim.
i had an ongoing relationship with my teacher from the age 13 to 17 in manitoba. we had sexual relations in the teachers staff room and classrooms at night when the school was closed.
it has had a profound affect on my adolescence, and i feel has affected my ability to have trusting relationships as an adult. my sense of self worth was compromised and i believe has led to my contracting hiv.
your documentary was very powerful. i hope it helps to stop this from happening to other children who are truly powerless and not emotionally mature to handle these horrible situations.
what is wrong with this world...as a victim of abuse both sexual and physical. boys will be boys n girls asked for it is and has been abused to death. When will this government wake up and see these people are worse than drug dealers.
These pedophiles steal what you could have, might have been by guilt and shame. I should know i was abused by 2 neighbors from 11-14 and have never told. I have been an exotic dancer for 18 yrs. MY dreams were stolen from me...I don't know of any in my business that dreamed of this as an occupation. These people need the strongest punishment that we can give...for once I am with the USA. Thank you
c taylor ontario
— Posted on January 9, 2008 09:16 PM
What these teachers did was wrong, immoral, and disgusting. There is nothing worse then praying on innocent children.
Allan S Newfoundland
— Posted on January 9, 2008 09:02 PM
Absolutely disgusted that the officials at the school blamed the victim and wanted her to leave. That would solve the problem?!!! My sister taught in the eighties, and I supply taught around the same time, but I really discounted her comment that in the case of abuse, they " pass the trash". Apparently it is so. S. Reynolds.