Interview: Dan Kepley

the fifth estate's Bob McKeown interviewed Canadian Football Hall of Fame middle linebacker and former Edmonton Eskimo, Dan Kepley, about never missing a game because of a concussion. No matter what.

Today, Kepley is an assistant coach with the Edmonton Eskimos, the same team with which he won a career total of six Grey Cups in the 1970s and early 1980s. Here are excerpts of that interview.

SO LET'S GO BACK TO THE TEAM THAT WON THOSE FIVE CUPS IN A ROW. WERE THEY EVEN MORE SO ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING - WAS THAT PART OF THE SUCCESS, THE COHESIVENESS OF THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE?

It truly was. In the sense that when I came as a young guy in late '75 from the Dallas Cowboys, we had a huge contingency of some of the older guys that, the Tom Wilkinsons and Donny Warringtons and George McGowans, and guys like the Dave Cutlers and people like that, that the torch had been handed down to them from previous people and previous players.

And, and it was instilled in us that this was part of being an Eskimo, this was part of what we did, part of being a part of this. And we had to go out there and you not only had to, but you wanted to, to be accepted.

AND WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE IN THAT MIXTURE OF CHARACTERS AND PERSONALITIES, DAN?

Well it was - it was first try to figure out where the hell Edmonton, Alberta, Canada was and secondly of who all these crazy people were, and figuring out the stupid, silly game of football because the rules were different, fields and everything else, and all that.

And then once you started to get a little more comfortable with it, then there was a point of wanting to be good. Wanting to contribute, wanting to do your part. And, and be accepted by the, by the elders if you wanted to say.

I THINK WANTING IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT OF WHAT DAN KEPLEY WAS MOTIVATED BY, EH? IT WAS MORE THAN JUST WANTING.

Dan Kepley quite honestly was motivated by the fear of failure, didn't want to, to - to disappoint anybody, didn't want to disappoint my teammates, did not want to disappoint myself in the sense of I had always been told you're either too little, too slow, too white, too something, and you couldn't get it done.

So I didn't want that - I needed and, and my drive was to prove those people wrong.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK THAT IS A GENERAL MOTIVATION IN FOOTBALL, BECAUSE OF THE KIND OF GAME IT IS, BECAUSE OF THE VIOLENCE, BECAUSE IT IS SO COMPETITIVE, MAN AGAINST MAN ON EVERY PLAY. IS THAT KIND OF FEAR MORE A PART OF FOOTBALL THAN ANY OTHER SPORT?

I think there's a possibility that that may have been in the older years, and of guys coming up and you know, still back in those days, making money, we couldn't practice until 4 in the afternoon because the guys had to work. They had to have other jobs.

Today's may be a little different and you know, some of those young linebackers and young players that I coach with out there, you know, they look at you - they listen to me with genuine affection, but sometimes I think they really think how much does this old man know, you know?

And because - and a lot of guys these days, it looks like they come around and they act like football just started when they walked through the locker room. That's not the truth. That's not the truth at all because you know, there's been a number, thousands and thousands of players that have played extremely well in this league for 100 plus years and been successful.

BUT JUST TO COME BACK TO PREVIOUS QUESTION. FUNDAMENTALLY IS FOOTBALL IN THE WAY CONTACT VIOLENCE TAKES PLACE, IS IT FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER SPORT? I MEAN JUST COMPARING IT TO HOCKEY FOR EXAMPLE. IN HOCKEY THERE'S A LOT OF VIOLENCE BUT IT'S ALWAYS PERIPHERAL TO THE ESSENCE OF THE SPORT. IN FOOTBALL, VIOLENCE IS THE SPORT.

It certainly is.

EVERY PLAY.

Yeah. And being able to I think introduce and bring that part of violence that is in you along with the techniques and the finesse that it takes to be an athlete, a professional athlete, it doesn't hurt you. It doesn't hurt you to have that.

You know, I think you can - if you, if you, if you have a fear and you have a drive inside of you, and you are athletic enough, we can teach you as coaches or the coaches who taught us technique and things how to use that.

I don't think that you can teach or coach heart and, and what drives the, the company or the person that develops from all these you know sports teams and things when they're scouting and they're testing them on speed and height and weight and athletic ability and jumping up and down and all this other stuff. But when you can test their heart, you'll have something.

I THINK THE GOLD STANDARD FOR THAT IN YOUR ERA WAS YOU.

I'm not sure. I, I certainly wouldn't put myself up there and, and I -

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DAN, BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE DOES.

I, I was - I was just one of those very fortunate people that I was given an opportunity to come to Edmonton and play football, something that I love to do, something that I wanted to do and probably, quite honestly, the only thing I knew how to do.

And so therefore if I didn't have football, which came back to the fear thing, if you lost this, I didn't have an answer. I didn't have Plan B in place.

THE WORD ALWAYS WAS DAN KEPLEY IS CRAZY, AND THAT WAS HIGH PRAISE, FOR A MIDDLE LINEBACKER TO BE SEEN AS CRAZY, NEVER STOPPING, HITTING AS HARD AS HE CAN EVERY PLAY. THAT WAS THE ULTIMATE COMPLIMENT. WERE YOU CRAZY? BY THAT DEFINITION?

I think I was - a fine line maybe, crazy, driven. I, I think the part for me was quite, quite honestly, is the sense that I wasn't that big and I wasn't that fast and so therefore when you're dealing with at that time 280 lb. people and possibly a 300-pounder every now and then, it helped.

And the sight game from my perspective of trying to get respect either in my own locker room or in the football field itself, that if somebody thought that I was crazy and would do a significant amount of crazy things, maybe I had an edge.

Maybe that gave me an edge at one point to have that guy, whether it was in the locker room or at a bar or something, some guy thinking that ah this captain, it's not that big. I'm gonna go over there and whip his ass, you know. And then the next thing you know, you got to break a bottle and take it to his throat and make him think that he could die right there.

Possibly those guys will leave you alone. So that was part of my insulation, I suppose.

WHEN YOU'VE GOT GUYS ON THE... I'M TELLING THE GUY WHO KNOWS THIS BETTER THAN I DO, BUT WHEN YOU WATCH A FOOTBALL GAME, THERE ARE GUYS WHO SIMPLY CAN'T HIT HARDER, FASTER, BETTER THAN OTHER GUYS.

Yes.

WHY IS THAT?

I don't - I - I really don't have the true answer, other than the fact that there are, there are guys that have a knack for things, whatever it may be. And certain guys are tremendous attackers of the football and they - like, like, for myself, I mean I would attack. And it may have been a 50-50 shot sometimes of whether I was going to make contact or not.

Because I, I probably missed a few tackles in my day, flying, flying around a little bit. But it's paying - it's paying attention to the little detail things of - the big pictures and the big plays and the big knots will take care of themselves through the course of a game.

But if you're very detailed, and for myself, I felt that, that I was lesser an athlete than the guys that I was playing with or possibly playing against. And it constituted that I had to be more studious about the game, study the film, study the tape, study the games, do the little things right and hopefully the big things could take care of themselves.

DID YOU ENJOY THE CONTACT OR WAS IT SIMPLY A PRICE THAT HAD TO BE PAID?

I love contact. I, I think and I've been accused of being an extremist - maybe accurate. But I think that if you're going to hit somebody, there's a difference. My grandpa used to tell me, and I still remember this dearly, that he talked about you see the people, all the little ladies at the, on the Sunday afternoon, they take those little flyswatters to kill a fly, and they tap it.

They're trying to kill it, but they're tapping it. So he said why the hell don't you take a sledgehammer and kill it? Just kill the bastard right there and get it done with, and don't leave any doubt. And -

THAT WAS YOUR PHILOSOPHY?

Yes. To, to try to - to try to hit with everything I had. Because mostly, as small as I was, I felt that I had to or else I was either going to be tangled up in somebody's cleats. And that became part of the thing that, that drove me was that, that I was, I was going to try to do that every time that I stepped on the field.

AND WAS THE SATISFACTION IN THAT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, WHAT IT MADE THEM FEEL OR WHAT IT MADE YOU FEEL?

I - I never acknowledge whether I, how I felt about the thing. I think that I, I as a teammate, as a, as a team player, that you got a better feeling when you walked on the side after the game or something like that, and the guys come up and tell you it's one of the best shots I've ever seen. It's one of the best hits or it's something like that, or you know, you played a hell of a game.

When you have - and I told, I told the linebackers the other day, going into this playoff game against Winnipeg, that, that what matters is that at the end of that day, at the end of that game, you can walk in first and look yourself in the mirror and you don't have to say I wonder what would happen if.

If I would have worked a little harder, if I'd of stayed an extra hour, if I had run a few more win sprints or something. But to have the respect of every one of those players in your locker room. They came in and go, Goose, you played a hell of a game, you know, Ricky Rae - just a great game. Thank - that's a an - I've never seen a game like that before.

There's, there's where the perks come from.

DID IT EVER CROSS YOUR MIND THAT YOU WERE DOING YOURSELF HARM OR SOMEBODY ELSE HARM? WAS THAT EVER AN ISSUE?

I, I - I remember a couple of times during my career. One I remember and I can't remember the - Coach Lancaster will tell me the name of the receiver immediately, but I happened to hit one of the Saskatchewan receivers on a quick slant. And when I caught him, he swallowed his tongue and he went into convulsions on the field.

And obviously everybody is around him and I had to - I had to, for my, what I thought I had to do was I went over and got by myself and I sat down on the field and on my helmet and I had to say get over this. It's part of the game. It's what you came here to do. It happens. It could happen to you.

But I cannot the next play go out there and tiptoe into the offensive line and come rolling out of there like I was on skates or something.

I MEAN THESE DAYS, THERE'S SO MUCH MORE ATTENTION PAID TO CONCUSSIONS, HEAD INJURIES, SPEARING, WHICH IS AGAINST THE RULES NOW. BACK IN OUR ERA, YOU WERE TAUGHT TO HIT WITH YOUR HELMET, YOU WERE TAUGHT TO LEAD WITH YOUR HEAD. YOU WERE, YOU WERE TAUGHT THAT THAT WAS GOING TO HIT THEM HARDER THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

Well it was, it was that old school adage as far as you know, you've got to be able to see what you've got to hit. So the front of your helmet, and I talk to guys, when I coach them up, I tell our linebacker, I want the first thing that made contact with you to be either your face mask or your shoulder pads. That's the first. Don't reach and grab and you know try to arm tackle people.

You know, some of that is - but the spearing part and the hitting with the helmet and the helmet to helmet contact, it has, it has changed the rules of this game quite a bit and probably, if I was playing today, I wouldn't stay in too many (unclear) or I'd have to change my whole style of the way I hit.

WERE CONCUSSIONS AN ISSUE WITH YOU?

Oh I'm - no. They're only an issue if you allow them to be an issue.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

Meaning that if I, if I - there was concussions and probably I don't know how many and part of that may be a concussion, fact that right now that I can't remember some things. But yeah, there, there were concussions. There were times that - I've known I've been knocked out completely on the field and take it off and come back and tried to play.

And one game in Saskatchewan, I remember this very - very clearly for what I can remember of it. Myself and Steve Molnar, helmet to helmet, I don't know whether I got him or if he got me. To listen to Dwayne Mandrusiak, our equipment manager talk, he said I came over to him after it was all over and I said Did I hit Steve?

He said, yeah, you hit him . I said - I go Did he go down? He said yeah, yeah, he went down. I go hm, did I go down? He said yeah, like a ton of bricks, buddy. But I, I woke up in the - in the locker room and -

BUT YOU'D BEEN PLAYING STILL.

I had been playing and then I woke up in the locker room and they had hid my helmet, which didn't sit well with me. So I had, I had our doctor up by the throat, up on the wall, choking him, literally, just saying Doc, where's my helmet?

Which is more important, air or telling me where my helmet is? I figured being a doctor, he'd be a very intelligent man. He told me where my helmet was. I got the helmet, I ran back on to the, toward the field, out the tunnel. But when you come out of the tunnel in Regina, you come right behind the Saskatchewan pit.

For some reason, I thought I was in a war. Now I snuck down because I was, I was somewhere I wasn't supposed to be. I was on the wrong side. And I - I snuck all the way around the field, went on back and tried to run out on the field.

And thankfully, I ran out onto the field and Saskatchewan was running the play at the time, and they stopped and nobody hit me. Somebody came - supposedly, they tell me this, and they, they walked me off. And quite honestly, I know this is kind of, a little bit of a longer story but -

NO, IT'S FINE.

Unfortunately that evening, we flew back to Edmonton. I had to fly back to North Carolina to appear on a court case cause I had knocked out some teeth of a heavyweight wrestler who had grabbed my girlfriend's butt, and for an assault case.

I went back to North Carolina, flew there. Went supposedly through a trial. I don't know what exactly happened. Came back to Edmonton and it wasn't till a couple of days after that, that I actually acknowledged that I had gone and without even knowing that.

NOW DID YOU PLAY THE NEXT GAME?

Oh certainly. Certainly. That was - that's not - you know, that's just an injury. You can play hurt in this game. That's not -

I HAD A NUMBER OF CONCUSSIONS, THREE I THINK QUITE SERIOUS ONES THAT I RECALL, FEELING THAT I WAS FLOATING ABOVE THE - I PLAYED, BUT FEELING THAT I WAS SOMEHOW FLOATING ABOVE THE FIELD. NO ONE EVER ASKED ABOUT THEM. I NEVER MISSED A PLAY BECAUSE I NEVER MISSED THE NEXT GAME BECAUSE I HAD POST-CONCUSSION SYNDROME.

There's a rule. There's a - there's an unwritten rule that says as a wolf, when you have marked the corners of your spot and your territory, don't you dare let anybody ever go in there because you may not get it back. That was part of the fear, never let somebody take your place because you got hurt.

YOU BELIEVE YOU OR WE AT THAT TIME UNDERESTIMATED WHAT WAS GOING ON INSIDE OUR HEADS?

I don't - I don't give myself enough credit to say that I was smart enough to acknowledge that, whether I was estimating or underestimating, I think I was playing football and I was doing something that you love.

And others say like a nymphomaniac that's a hooker. You're doing something that you love to do and you would do it absolutely free, and they're paying you money to do this. God, what a life. I mean this is not like punching a clock every morning.

And I don't, I don't think it mattered. I don't, I don't think it mattered. I think anytime that anything in your life seems to be worthwhile, that you strive for, that you work for, there's consequences that have to be paid along the way. There's sacrifices that have to be made.

DO YOU THINK IN THE CONTEXT OF PRO FOOTBALL, CERTAINLY IN OUR TIME, THAT IT WASN'T JUST A MATTER OF PROTECTING THE MIDDLE LINEBACKER'S SPOT, THAT YOU HAD MADE YOURS. BUT WAS IT ALSO THAT YOU KNOW TO ADMIT TO INJURY, PARTICULARLY A HEAD INJURY WHICH YOU COULDN'T SEE, WAS SOMEHOW CONSIDERED A SIGN OF WEAKNESS? AND YOU JUST DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.

You didn't want to seem like you were soft, you know. This is a physical game. There, there are going to be times that you're hurt, but you have to play hurt. There's a big difference between you know, some injuries and other injuries, I suppose in the sense from my mentality, is that you had to play hurt.

And I didn't care, I didn't care what it took that got me on the field, I don't care how many shots of xylocaine or novocain or whatever you had to take that got you out there and show up. But if you're going to show up, perform and produce and contribute. Don't, don't be a hindrance.

If I, if I felt at any point that I truly was hurting the ball club because you know, I thought I should play, then that was wrong. And I, and there was one time, quite honestly, I remember in Montreal that 1976, I think it was.

And I - it was a little toss play and I forget the running back's name but I really can't -

ANDY HOPKINS?

It could have been Andy Hopkins, that's it, thank you. And I got cut and as I - as I went down, the only thing I could do was right in the hole, I could see Andy or the running back coming through the hole. So I just leaped off the ground as much as I could and I caught him right under the chin with the top of my helmet.

And I had to lay there for a while because my legs were numb and I couldn't move very well. Now the first thought that came to my mind was my mom and dad, I had flown them up from North Carolina to see me play professionally for the first time.

And my thought was if I don't get up, my mother will have a heart attack, right here, no doubt. So it took a while for me to get up and I finally worked my way back over to the, to the sideline. And I went in the locker room.

And quite honestly, I said I got to go back out because I know what this will do to my mom. And I remember I washed down some percodans, I washed it down with beer because it makes percodans and the beer, together make it work pretty good. And I went out and I played the second half. And -

AND WHAT HAD YOU DONE TO YOURSELF THAT YOU LEARNED LATER?

Then I took my mom and dad out to dinner and I couldn't breathe. I was like this the whole time. And, and I - I just told them, I said I got kicked in the ribs. The ribs got bad, you know. I lied to mom about that.

But then we flew back from Montreal to Edmonton and as soon as I got landed here, the next thing I know, Billy Stevenson had me on one arm and I can't remember if it was Hector or Charlie Turner or somebody, that they had me, said you're going to the hospital, because I they knew I wouldn't go to the hospital.

AND WHAT WAS THE DIAGNOSIS?

Well it was a compression fracture in my back.

YOUR SPINE.

In my spine, okay. And then it came to -

YOU BROKE YOUR BACK, DAN.

Yes. And I'm not saying this to say, to show that I'm a tough guy cause that's - people play with this probably. But I stayed in the whirlpools all week. I asked the doctor, I said you give, give me because I'm kind of a - like I said black and white guy.

What's the ratio? What's my chances that this is gonna sever the spine? He said around 70-30, something like that. I said I like the odds, I'll play, and I played.

SEVENTY-THIRTY THAT IT WOULDN'T SEVER THE SPINE.

That it wouldn't.

IF HE'D SAID 30-70 THAT IT WILL -

I probably had had an argument with the doctor.

MY RECOLLECTION OF THOSE DAYS IS I CANNOT RECALL - CERTAINLY I NEVER MISSED A GAME BECAUSE OF A CONCUSSION. I CAN'T RECALL ANYBODY ELSE WHO MISSED A GAME BECAUSE OF A CONCUSSION. IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM FROM THIS VANTAGE POINT TO HAVE BEEN A CREDIBLE INJURY BACK THEN. HOW MUCH HAVE THINGS CHANGED?

A million percent. And it, and it - I do understand and I'm intelligent enough as a coach to know the guys are bigger, they're stronger. Some are much more athletic than we ever - they have more athletic ability in their little finger than I have in my whole body.

And the equipment that they use these days. Can you imagine from our helmets back in the '70s and '80s, compared to what they're wearing today. I can't figure out how it happens. I truly can't.

And then for the guy to sit on the sideline for 3 weeks when your team needs you - your team, the people that count on you to be there. And it's not because you can't do your job or you can't remember to do your job. That's you know, that's my feelings.

SO YOU THINK IT'S GONE TOO FAR IN THE OTHER DIRECTION? THEY'RE TOO CAUTIOUS NOW ABOUT THIS?

I think they are. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Granted, it could have helped me and you a little bit. But I don't know. It just, it just seems like it's too convenient. And I'm not trying to you know upset doctors and the medical staffs and all that. But you know, gosh, guy got a little ding somewhere and he can't play for 8 weeks.

YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN AN OLD SCHOOL GUY, DAN, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY.

And I think I will, and Coach Maciocia this year had, he told me, he says I'm giving you a word and you need to strive for success with this word. And I said okay, coach, yessir, whatever it is. "Evolve." I thought, I said - I didn't know if that was possible, you know.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOME OF YOUR TEAMMATES FROM THAT PARTICULAR TEAM, AND THEY'VE ALL DIED QUITE RECENTLY. DAVID BOONE, BILL STEVENSON AND YORK HENTSCHEL. T ME ASK YOU ABOUT THEM INDIVIDUALLY. WHAT DO YOU - WHAT KIND OF GUY WAS DAVID BOONE?

David Boone was, was a very gifted, intelligent man, highly athletic. A tremendous friend - a tremendous friend. You could count on David Boone to be there. And I think probably David is the one scenario, the three people that you had mentioned, that bothers me the most because -

WHY?

We didn't know about the troubles. We didn't know what goes on inside a person's mind or a friend's mind that it got so bad, that you took your life, you took your own life. In the case of, of Billy Stevenson - Billy Stevenson was a big powerful man that was just like me, drank too much, got rowdy, loud, did everything to an extreme.

Survived most of it and - then that had the way that he died, from what we understood was he fell down some steps at his mother's house and fractured his skull and somehow it didn't seem right.

DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT IN WHAT WAY?

It didn't seem right that this big powerful man that had his weaknesses, truly had his weaknesses, whether it was alcohol or drugs or whatever that may have been at the time. I don't know. He, in my heart it seems like you know, he - you always think about dying that he could die as a hero rather than falling down steps and breaking his skull open because he was drunk. It - he deserved more.

PEOPLE HAVE SAID YORK HENTSCHEL WAS A VERY QUIET GUY, WASN'T REALLY ONE OF THE CENTRAL MEMBERS OF THAT DRESSING ROOM.

He wasn't a central member, meaning that he wasn't an extrovert of a person that went out. He was - he was a tremendously powerful, powerful, scary man - scary. York was the guy that, he could get me a little nervous at times.

And because he was quiet, but he had those - at the time like Charlie Manson eyes, that you weren't exactly sure if he could go postal at, at any time. You know, he came in 1975 or - '76 I think it was.

He came riding into our training camp on a motorcycle from Florida and he had everything that he owned in a backpack on the back of the motorcycle, and he was here. Just a Canadian kid that didn't - didn't have all that athletic ability as far as talent and all those other thing. But he was a powerful man that wanted a job. He wanted to work.

And he came and he brought it to work and he contributed to our ball club and was a very big part of us at that - that day.

THERE'S A STUDY THAT WAS DONE, MOSTLY INVOLVING MEMBERS OF THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS, AND SOME OF THE NAMES YOU'D KNOW, MIKE WEBSTER FOREMOST.

Mike Webster, the centre.

AMONG THEM, RIGHT. AND THESE ARE GUYS WHO AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME IN LIFE AS YORK HENTSCHEL AND BILL STEVENSON AND DAVID BOONE DIED, BY ONE MEANS OR ANOTHER, THESE GUYS DIED IN THEIR 40'S AND 50'S. IN EACH OF THESE BRAINS, THEY FOUND A PROTEIN THAT IS PRESENT USUALLY IN 80 AND 90-YEAR-OLD VICTIMS OF DEMENTIA. AND ALL OF THESE GUYS HAD HAD KNOWN CONCUSSIONS IN MOST CASES, MORE THAN ONE. AND THEY'VE ACTUALLY DEVELOPED A SYNDROME NOW WHERE FORGETFULNESS, ERRATIC BEHAVIOUR, OTHER COGNITIVE PROBLEMS, THEY BELIEVE, ARE RELATED TO DIAGNOSED AND UNDIAGNOSED CONCUSSIONS DURING A FOOTBALL CAREER.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DAVID BOONE AND BILL STEVENSON AND YORK HENTSCHEL, WERE CONCUSSIONS EVER AN ISSUE WITH THEM TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

No, not that I'm aware of. They, they were, they were - they were men. They were man's men and they would show up and perform, and there wasn't anything gonna keep them out of the show.

SO EVEN IF THEY HAD CONCUSSIONS, IT WASN'T SOMETHING THEY WERE NECESSARILY GOING TO TALK ABOUT.

I think they would be - and part of it was probably our blind ignorance in that day to, to know that you know, if I start complaining there's something (unclear), I'm not gonna play or I'll be off the roster, God for - nah, I don't get my game check for that week or something, something may happen.

I need my money or I need what little bit there is. And or I need the job.

BUT WOULD IT BE PLAUSIBLE TO YOU THAT IF THERE WERE CONCUSSIONS THAT BOONE AND STEVENSON AND HENTSCHEL HAD SUFFERED, THAT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW?

No, they wouldn't tell you. It would not be as significant as it is today. And I don't really mean to undermine. I'm just showing part of my ignorance, truly, by saying they would not acknowledge it. It is not a big thing then as it has become.

AND WHEN YOU SEE THE STORIES OF PEOPLE - WELL, WHEN YOUR FRIENDS AND TEAMMATES LIKE BOONE AND STEVENSON AND HENTSCHEL DIE IN THE WAY THAT THEY DID, SOMETIMES DO YOU SAY THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ME, I'M LUCKY THAT WASN'T ME?

There but for the grace of God go I. I think that's probably you know, there's a reason I'm here. I'm not sure what that is yet. I'm waiting and I'll figure that it'll be told to me when the time is right.

But I was no - probably I was worse than all of them put together at times. And I'm, I'm here to be able to talk about it. And we've lost some very good friends and some very close teammates because of that.

And, and I have, I have to know that I have to prepare myself for whatever that answer is of why I'm alive and, and why I'm on this earth. I have to be ready to serve that, whatever the answer is.

IS THERE ANY WAY TO ACT ON THAT THAT DOESN'T FUNDAMENTALLY ALTER THE SPORT OF FOOTBALL?

Well probably 10 or 15 years ago, I would tell you who gives a shit because there's no life after football, and that truly was my thinking, that I - it was combined into one thing for me. And I had no idea what, what life after football was.

I do remember very vividly the morning after retiring that you stood in front of the mirror shaving, I did, and I looked and I'd always been Danny Kepley, Edmonton Eskimo, Danny Kepley, middle linebacker, Danny Kepley, number 42.

And I knew the persona, I knew the person that I had - and the image that I, I worked really hard to try to create, the craziness and everything else. And there stood Danny Kepley, the person - nothing after the name. It's a scary-ass feeling. It is a tremendously fearful thing to not know who that person is.

That was - and it became very difficult for me because I didn't - I didn't know how to deal with it -

CAN YOU FORESEE FOOTBALL AS YOU KNOW IT WHERE CONCUSSIONS ARE NOT A POTENTIAL PROBLEM?

I wouldn't think so. I think there are going to be - if you see the significant changes that have taken place with helmets particularly, I'm looking at those things that they wear today. You cannot - this is Fort Knox. You cannot get in. You cannot penetrate this with anything. Yet it happens.

THE DOCTORS SAY THAT THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE, BUT WHAT IT HASN'T DONE IS CHANGED THE PHYSIOLOGY OF THE BRAIN, WHICH YOU KNOW THEY SAY IS LIKE A BOWL OF JELLO.

I can attest to that.