The Third Sex

March 31, 2009 11:40 AM

Neither male nor female? Do people born with ambiguous sexual organs constitute a 'third sex'?

Tell us what you thought of this film.

Comments

Henry_Niagara wrote:

December 15, 2009 08:10 AM

Insersex is an anomaly, not an illness. An illness you treat; an anomaly you should simply accept.

If the anomaly has life-threatning conditions attached to it then treatment of those conditions might be indicated; otherwise let the individual affected decide his/her own course of action.

Jenn wrote:

December 13, 2009 08:48 PM

I could only watch the first 3/4s of the show but I loved it. I just like getting all the different information and the different sides as well.

We live in such a gender based society and even being gay/bi/lesbian isn't exactly excepted by everyone. A friend of mine once asked me "If everyone where pansexual, would you think we would have these problems?"

Henry_Niagara wrote:

December 13, 2009 08:38 PM

Bravo – The Third Sex is an excellent presentation. I am so happy to see XXY discussed openly as an intersex condition.

The program explained very well the dilemma faced by parents, the medical community, and intersexed persons. The dilemma is how to “normalize” the individual. A much better focus would be, what does “normalize” mean? Intersexuality is not a disease. Rather it appears to be the result of a genetic, hormonal, and/or developmental anomaly.

But not all anomalies need to be corrected. Too many assumptions are being made by medical practitioners who have the surgical knowledge they need to perform what they propose, but who apparently lack any comprehension of the possible emotional/psychological impact that surgery may have. Simply because a procedure can be done has nothing to do with whether it ought to be done.

I am an intersexed person with a mosaic genetic structure of XXY/XY. But for me diagnosis of that condition had to wait till I was 60 years old. When I was still in the womb, there was no amniocentesis, DNA had not yet been discovered, Dr. Klinefelter had not yet made his conclusions. Therefore at my birth I appeared to be a boy. By the time I was a teen and discovered I was developing breasts I was horrified. Now that I know the effects of XXY on adolescent development I understand now what was going on then, but then nobody knew, not even the doctors.

Throughout my teen age and subsequent years I knew something was wrong, but I didn’t know what nor did any of doctors, or if they did they remained silent. I sought to know the reasons for my body shape, my tendency to gain weight, my sterility, my abnormal genital development; but there were no answers forth coming. No one ever suggested genetic testing or hinted that it might be useful. Never once until I was 38 did any doctor even mention Klinefelter Syndrome. I asked him what it was and he responded that resulted in small testicles, gynaecomastia, sterility and mental retardation. We now know he was wrong, but I didn’t in 1974.

It wasn’t until I asked for a breast reduction that my plastic surgeon in London said it was cosmetic surgery, not covered by OHIP. He said OHIP would cover it if he said it was the result of Klinefelter Syndrome. So that’s what he did. What he didn’t do was to suggest genetic testing to find out if I actually had XXY. What he didn’t do was to suggest that I might need subsequent psychological counseling. I did, in fact, need it very much.

Then in 1995 I got internet access and explored for myself what Klinefelter meant. I asked for genetic testing; it was refused. I discovered that a life-long lack of testosterone might lead to osteoporosis. That they were willing to test for and the result showed that I was well on my way to get it severely. Only then was genetic testing allowed. Then my karyotype was discovered, a karyotype set at the moment of conception, not 60 years and nine months later. My first endocrinologist (at Foothills Hospital, Calgary) introduced me to his students as the man who diagnosed himself. Once the diagnosis was made, testosterone HRT began

Now 14 years later I look like a male; the osteopenia is gone; I receive excellent care from my endocrinologist in Dundas, ON. But am I male? My wife of over 50 years says so, but my mind still does not know. I feel that my maleness is the direct result of surgical and chemical intervention, but those two things by themselves have proven insufficient to alter my feelings.

Thanks for opening this topic that is so important for 0.05% of the population who are intersexed.

Cheri wrote:

December 12, 2009 11:05 PM

I think the scientists said it best in this documentary; it is very difficult to do gender testing because there is no easy way to figure out exact gender.
So how can people say you have to be one or the other when scientists can't figure out if an xxy baby is a male or female?
The human body is a beautiful and complex thing. Often as children grow their bodies correct any abnormalities that they have. I think the ultimate way to help intersex people is to NOT have corrective surgery or hormone therapy until the child is old enough to figure out which gender they are, if they want to chose.

Jerrilynn, P.Eng. - Edmonton wrote:

July 29, 2009 08:57 AM

I watched the Third Sex and felt that it was well made, intelligent, and factual based on my own experiences. It is really great to see programs like this that will hopefully educate those who are willing to watch this title. It would be good to see this excellent resource aired at many different times on different days to get the broadest educational coverage. It's good to see that transsexuals are finally coming out of the religious mist to be explained through knowledgeable facts, like people such as epileptics are now understood and not exorcized as being possessed. I am very religious and support my church, but we must interpret the stories using knowledge and not past control teachings.

I posted a similar comment right after the program last evening, but this was my first time and I did't know what to do for 'URL'.

o0MayheM0o wrote:

July 29, 2009 02:49 AM

For one reason or another, i have been drawn to the subject of gender identity. I first introduced myself to the subject durring my second year in college. Such a complex subject that can have dramatic consequences on the individuals involved. Specifically on the subject of GRS i do not believe it is a good idea to do any sort of reconstruction to the individual as an infant, If there is no determination what gender the child body/mind will "choose" naturally.
i would not sugest that it would be easy on the individual/family to not fit into one of the specific gender roles that society accepts. But somehow i think that it would be less torment on the individual to atleast know that they are different and be able to choose on their own terms when it is correct for them. Many individuals have self confidence issues without having to worry about if their plumbing is compatible with the wiring. Having to cope with gender identity issues is something that knowone would ask to have to do. All i hope for is people attempt to understand these individuals for who and not what they are.

Thompson wrote:

July 29, 2009 01:43 AM

Can anyone confirm if one of the narrators was Shatner?

panda16q wrote:

July 29, 2009 12:05 AM

Excellent documentary that raises important questions regarding society's interpretation of gender.

This documentary is the first step in the right direction. We as a society should really focus on what matters most. Male or Female we all have the desire to be accepted and to be loved for who we are. This is called unconditional love. This is a sad world when our differences, causes so much emotional turmoil. Sexuality is part of life. For such a natural process, why not embrace it. We as a society should put our focus on educating people about unconditional love, self love. Why does everything have to be right or wrong, black or white. Knowledge and understanding are key factors in changing the opinion that differences are wrong. Who are we to say what is abnormal, every part of our being has a reason or a purpose. The next step in the right direction would be that we each in turn stand up and be counted. Stand up and live our lives in such a way that we encourage each other to be who we are as people, not what others think we should be. Starting with our selves, spouses and children. Take the step today right now, make a difference in this cool hard world. Choose unconditional love.

Ahsley wrote:

July 28, 2009 11:52 PM

I watch "Third Sex tonight" and being a person of this persuassion found it insitefull and informative. After this comment I am writing to the office of the registrar generals office to "Discuss" my situation. I grew up male but am prominately female. Unlike most people of my persuassion I have been lucky enough to find a understanding, compassionate and loving partner. I will not discuss their gender to protect them and their famioly but I truly love them. I hope more people come to understand the plight of the transgendered and intersexed soon for this society is finding more and more of these individuals.

Jerrilynn, P. Eng. - Edmonton wrote:

July 28, 2009 11:39 PM

This was a very well made, intelligent, accurate program that hopefully will be excellent to educate those who are willing to open their mind. This program should help to bring transsexualism out of the religious mist into the known science that epileptics now have rather than exorcism.

Hopefully there will be many re-runs at various times and days to spread the educational facts to the most people who are willing to watch this title

Ross wrote:

July 28, 2009 11:22 PM

I'm quite pleased that I got the opportunity to watch "The Third Sex" this evening. I am neither intersexed nor transgendered, but as a male who was made impotent by a spinal chord injury more than 20 years ago, I understand some of the frustrations many of the individuals interviewed discussed.

I'm thankful for modern surgery which has allowed me to effectively become 'remasculated,' but what of those who effectively have to choose their own gender? And how does it really affect those who previously had someone else--either family members or medical professionals--choose that gender for them?

I honestly believe that people who are intersexed should have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to embrace one sexual identity or the other, or chose as one person did, to identify as neither.

Dr. Money did much to harm the debates surrounding gender identity (read John Colapinto's "As Nature Made Him"), so now let the people who are intersexed or transgendered make the decisions that most affect their own lives.

Ross,
-Nanaimo, BC

charissa w miller wrote:

July 28, 2009 11:07 PM

please check out this condition -CAH-
I'm a carrier, and didn't know...You could be too,
And carry the genes that contribute to ambiguous genetalia.

http://giftsofgraceandhope.com/

JJ wrote:

July 28, 2009 11:03 PM

I think that no human being should interfere with the work of GOD for He does not make junks. His makings has to do with the philosophy of KARMA and therefore each person is formed from his/her own actions.So leave the child alone and I agree with the last female social worker ie to leave it to the child but the parent is there to educate the child in gentle manner.

Bruce Voigt wrote:

April 1, 2009 04:34 PM

WOW -- Powerfull Stuff, I would estimate that sixty three and one half percent of the people watching slipped into the bathroom to check things out. Personlly though, I mentioned to my friend that I would show her mine if she would show me hers!
PS -- And now we know one of the true reasons for the big kersnuffel a few years ago in trying to outlaw midwifery!

Supergirl wrote:

April 1, 2009 02:07 AM

Excellent documentary that raises important questions regarding society's interpretation of gender.

As a post-operative, transsexual, I found the program presented an informed and non-judgmental examination of transsexual and inter-sexed persons,

Of personal interest were comments made by Dr. Pierre Brassard. He performed my own sex-change surgery in June of 2008.

Leslea wrote:

March 31, 2009 11:04 PM

I just watched "the third sex". As someone who was also born intersexed, it's a subject understandably close to my heart. All in all, well done. Very informative and well balanced.

Given the choice, I would have much preferred to be allowed to have grown into my gender. Unfortunately gender enforcement started the instant I was out of the womb. The doctor insisted on a "more masculine name" right off the bat. Parental & societal gender enforcement was likewise intense for all my childhood and early adulthood.

Fortunately, by the time I was in my early 20's, the internet had been made available and I was able to safely and securely learn about gender options. I was full time by age 27 and on feminizing hormones by 29. I was lucky to have GRS (Genital Reconstruction Surgery) with Dr Yvon Menard in 2002 shortly after my 32nd birthday.

I fit my life as a woman, far better than I did, pretending to be a male.

Leslea

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