Citizenship and Terrorism:
Terrorist incidents abroad involving Canadians have raised concern about Canada's reputation around the world.
The government has suggested revoking the citizenship of dual citizens who engage in terrorism. What do you think ...is it a good idea?
Should Canadian citizenship carry behavioural expectations?
Guests and
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Download mp3 (right click and choose 'Save Target As')
Introduction
Today we want to talk about citizenship and terrorism.
Many Canadians this past week were surprised to learn that separate and deadly terrorist attacks in both Bulgaria and Algeria were allegedly
carried out by some people carrying Canadian passports. The government says it's not only a betrayal and an embarrassment to Canada ....but it is
wrong. In response, Immigration and Citizenship Minister Jason Kenney proposes a new law that would strip dual citizens of their Canadian
citizenship if they are caught engaging in terrorist activity.
The move provoked an outcry. Liberal leader Bob Rae said such a move is too hasty and would create two classes of citizens ...one homegrown who
could do anything and never lose citizenship ...the other whose citizenship is subject to removal. The NDP said such a move would not stand up to
scrutiny under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Mr Kenney and others have pointed out that many other countries such as Britain, France, Italy, Switzerland, and New Zealand, to name a few have
similar laws.
We'd like to hear what you think about this.
Is citizenship something that brings with it responsibilites as well as rights? Does a person holding dual citizenship by choice adopt a different
status and with it a different set of expectations? How should Canada deal with citizens who engage in terrorism abroad? Should the fact that some
are dual citizens make a difference?
Our topic today: "Should Canada revoke the citizenship of dual citizens who engage in terrorism? And, should Canadian citizenship carry
behavioural expectations?"
I'm Rex Murphy ...On CBC Radio One and on Sirius Satellite Radio channel 159 ...this is Cross Country Checkup.
Guests
- Jason Kenney
Canada's Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.
- Kevin Lamoureux
MP for Winnipeg North, Liberal critic for Citizenship and Immigration.
- Wesley Wark
Professor at the Munk Centre for International Studies, University of Toronto. He has served as a consultant to the Privy Council Office of Canada on intelligence policy.
- Peter Showler
teaches immigration and refugee law at the Univ. of Ottawa, former chair of the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada (1999-2002), and is the author of Refugee Sandwich: Stories of Exile and Asylum.
- James Bissett
Former Canadian Ambassador to Yugoslavia and Former Head of the Canadian Immigration Service (1985-1990) has acted as a consultant to the Government on a number of immigration issues.
Links CBC.ca
National Post
Globe and Mail
E-mail
Please read Doug Saunders' piece "We're looking for terrorists in all the wrong places" Globe and Mail, yesterday, Saturday Feb 9th, and its reference to the CSIS report: "A Study of Radicalization: The Making of Islamic Extremists in Canada Today". It is enlightening and should be referred to in this afternoons' Cross Country Check Up radio forum.
If handled in an irrational manner by those who are either ill-informed or seeking crass political gain, issues like this one can result in tragic consequences similar to those resulting from the McCarthy Communist Witch Hunt of the early 1950 or the abuse of Japanese Canadians by our Government at the beginning of WWII.
In the past Saunders has written elegantly about his immigrant neighbours in the area of London, England, in which he choose to live.
The question of whether or not three individuals with Canadian passports, and possibly Canadian citizenship, were involved in a recent act of terror in Algeria and earlier in Bulgaria, should cause us to be concerned about the possible use of Canadian passports for criminal purposes, but nothing more. Go beyond this single issue and you will begin to unjustly stigmatize a whole section of the Canadian population and encourage the belief that if you are a Canadian you can do no harm.
If we are truly proud of the diversity this country has achieved, we should discuss the real issue and then "stay calm and carry on!"
Keith
Cobourg, Ontario
I don't think Conservative policy should be looked at isolation but rather as a body of reactionary flooding of the landscape with a patchwork of quick fixes, mostly designed to shore up and maintain a constituency of voters, the 40% who will re-elect this government. Pizza in prisons, mentally ill committing violent crimes, dual citizens joining terrorist groups? There's an app for that, or should I say a knee-jerk piece of legislation to put out any particular fire so as to appeal to the ones who brung ya' to the dance. In each case, it is hard to argue with the government's reaction to individual issues but the end result will be a hodge-podge patchwork of band aids hiding some very serious scarring of the Canadian psyche. Legislating morality, ultimately solves very little because it doesn't get at the lack of services for the underlying problems that afflict us, mental illness, addiction, fanaticism in the face of ennui and the divisions among us that this government so loves to exploit to its political advantage.
Rose
Enderby, British Columbia
My late indomitable matriarch kept us all in line against any perceived encroachments of barbarism with the family Law: "we just don't do that sort of thing!" I hear this mantra echo when I hear news about terrorists reportedly with "Canadian" passports committing atrocious acts and I feel shame, perhaps in a defensive posture of my understanding of Canadian values, whatever they might be. However in the interests of making a more informed decision I am academically curious over what the arguments might be to not take such a firm and so far, in my eyes, perfectly justifiable stance. I'm willing to listen, (and like to think that that sense of fairness is also a Canadian characteristic) but it would have to be a very compelling argument to sway me.
Robin
Could revoking the citizenship of a terrorist backfire, for example, by giving the terrorist more freedom to continue, especially if his other country favours the terrorism? What about terrorists who have given up their original citizenship? Should they be allowed to keep their Canadian citizenship? What about terrorists born in Canada? We should not fool ourselves into thinking that removing Canadian citizenship removes the terrorism. What actually does removing Canadian citizenship accomplish to reduce terrorism?
Roslyn
Ottawa, Ontario
Should dual citizens who are involved in violence and terrorism lose Canadian citizenship? What needs to be lost is fear and hatred. Throughout history and before no doubt, dictators who, with godly intent, thought too much of themselves have been putting upon their neighbours insisting that everybody be like them. Having gained control, criticism was declared blasphemous. This belief that any philosophic or metaphysical notion can be unconditional brings on hatred through the fear that someone might believe that their critical neighbour is right and they are declared wrong. No belief system is absolute and no one has the right not to be offended. This is what we need to preach and not war and hate laws and fear.
Terry
Garibaldi Highlands, British Columbia
Why do we allow dual citizenship in the first place? One can live in Canada as a legal, recognized resident, participating in society except for voting. In most cases their residence here does not exempt them from participating in the democratic process in their home country (if it exists!). People who want to belong to two or more political parties or two religions or be fans of two sports teams (imagine someone at a hockey game with a sweater with Canadiens on the front and the Maple Leafs on the back) will be quickly required to choose or lose all credibility. The same should be required of legal citizens. No problem with defining crimes, etc. You are you are not a citizen, period.
Bob
La Pocatière, Quebec
Yes , immigrants to Canada should be expected to adhere to a standard of law , loyalty and good citizenship. Immediate deportation should occur once these individuals are found guilty with no opportunity to return to Canada. We as a nation do not support acts of terrorism against anyone or any country. Canada should not be a safe haven for those who disregard our Canadian standards.
Gerard
So far the Harper government doesn't even respect the rights of Canadian-born citizens whose involvement in terrorism is debatable due to their age, notably the case of Omar Khadr. Minister's Kenney's response to the current situation is fatuous and simply something to distract from much more important issues to Canadians.
Mark
Barrie, Ontario
The sooner an amendment is passed to revoke Canadian citizenship, the better. I am not sure why this is even a debate. People that do not share Canadian values do not deserve Canadian citizenship. This also includes people extorting money for terrorist groups overseas. And stop this crap of being allowed to appeal time-after-time so that the people under deportation orders end up staying in Canada for years at taxpayers' expense. We are stupid to let this go on. Tolerance is one thing, stupidity is unconscionable. We have a great country. Let's keep it great. Allowing terrorists to use our citizenship as a shield is just plain stupid.
Roger
Edmonton, Alberta
This would mean subjecting the person to laws that might not respect human rights to which the Canadian nation has dedicated itself. So: no. BUT: to be found guilty of terrorism is to be found guilty of treason. Let them be prosecuted as such.
Bernard
What if the dual citizen is falsely accused in a country with a corrupt judicial system? Will his/her dual citizenship function to allow Canada to renege on our responsibility to seek justice on his/her behalf?
Joan
Wolfville, Nova Scotia
Removing the citizenship of terrorists seems a little of an "open & shut case" on the surface of it. The frightening part is the "slippery slope" aspect of it. The Harper Government considers environmentalists to be terrorists & in the states they're proposing a law that will prosecute "whistle blowing" about animal abuse in factory farms & abattoirs as terrorism, perhaps we're to be next in this regard? Once the Legislation is in place, then the Government of the day merely has to change how they interpret "terrorism".
We would do well to remember the detention of Japanese citizens of Canada in 1942. It could happen again depending on the whim of the government.
Thomas
Vancouver, British Columbia
I am with Minister Kenny for creating a new law regarding taking away the citizenship of a person who holds a dual passport as a Canadian citizen if they participate in terrorism. I am one who thinks it should be a very great privilege to hold a Canadian passport and anyone who brings shame and disgrace to this country should have their citizenship terminated. I think it should be spelled out very clearly what can take away that privilege I am sickened by the number of people who stay in this country long enough to get a passport and then return to their country of origin and do not contribute to the economy of this country at all. It really angers me that when people who are living in another country but hold a Canadian passport expect the Canadian government to get them out of trouble when troubles erupt. Guess who pays for that - Canadian citizens who stay in Canada!
Faye
Toronto, Ontario
As a dual citizen, US/Canadian, I find Minister Kenny's to be an insult. Right now, my status as a Canadian citizen makes me a full and equal member of this country. Minister Kenny wants to change this. What Jason Kenny is proposing is that my citizenship is more tenuous and requires obligations that single citizenship don't have. Many dual citizens have this status because they were born here, others, like myself, have it because of our parents, and still others due to naturalization. As seems common with the Harper government, they seem very comfortable in creating double standards. All the talk of citizenship including an obligations is only selectively applied.
Peter
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Might this in any way interfere with freedom of religion, which is protected in this country? In my humble opinion, if anyone has decided they are in favor of this move without first knowing the criteria used to determine if a particular country/regime/group is to be on the list of 'enemies', then please tell us what you are basing this decision on. And who gets to decide, and how transparent is the process that first of all, determines who are our enemies, and secondly, who will determine whether or not a particular individual is a 'terrorist'? I think citizenship brings with it the responsibility to object, and attempt to change, those things in our laws or society that we believe to be unfair, or detrimental in some way.
Constance
Prince George, British Columbia
We must not differentiate in law or legal practice between individuals born in Canada and those who acquire Canadian Citizenship at an age where they take an oath when they become Canadian.
In practice, Canada does not allow people to retain prior Citizenship when they become Canadian. Those immigrants who come from the USA and permitted by the USA to retain their US citizenship. There is no justification in treating citizens of Canada by choice and those who are Canadian by birth. If a Canadian, living in Canada be found guilty of "terrorism", however defined, in a Canadian court of law can be stripped of their Canadian citizenship, then to what place
E
Absolutely strip them. They are criminals and have forfeited their rights to refer to themselves as Canadians.
Do not allow any immigrants into the country who have had any association with criminals or terrorists. Err on the side of caution.
Go one step further. Any Canadian regardless of status who is captured and convicted of acts of terrorism in a foreign nation will be subjected to the full penal code of that country with no interference from Canada.
Glenn
Edmonton, Alberta
Minister Jason Kenney suggested that dual citizens, whether they are Canadians by birth or by immigration, should lose their Canadian citizenship if they engage in terrorism. It seems to me that this would set up a double-standard among Canadian citizens by birth; those who also happen to hold citizenship in another country would lose their Canadian citizenship, whereas those who hold only Canadian citizenship would not. It would be good to hear Minister Kenney clarify this.
Erica
Victoria, British Columbia
Although it sounds good to remove citizenship from terrorists, whose definition of terrorist are we going to use. For examples Assad is labeling those who do not support his regime as terrorists. Let us not forget Maher Arar was tortured in Syria as a terrorist. So Canada HAS gone along with some pretty disgusting regimes.
Martin
My first thought continues: revoke the citizenship of any Canadian citizen found guilty of terrorism in any country (State). The dual passport issue is a red-herring argument for a change in the larger policy of whether or not to allow dual citizenship. Leave the terrorist to the justice of the country (State) s/he terrorized.
Norm
Fredericton, New Brunswick
For one class of people who immigrate to Canada, the expectation is that they invest a specific amount of money in a business. How can the government now talk about civic expectations when they have already implicitly indicate that citizenship can be purchased if you have enough money?
Richard
Edmonton, Alberta
I can't believe, nor the rest of us Canadians over here, listening, that this is even a discussion point. Have we gotten so far to lib-left of things that we are even debating as to whether a terrorist should have his citizenship revoked. Good Lord...No wonder the world's schemers and 'consultants' are laughing at us...
Ross
Atyrau, Kazakhstan
We should insist upon immigrants that dual citizenship approach to their past problems has no place in Canada. We must rescind the past decision to permit dual citizenship. It was originally intended to facilitate British Isles immigrants to have the cake and eat it. After much arguments dual citizenship was introduced, especially with support from East Indian, Chinese, Korean and Philippine immigrants. We are reaping the negative aspects with the citizenship of people with desire to settle scores. The whole joke about 'family reunion' was a drain on the Canadian economy.
Muthiah
There is a principle underlying the welcoming of citizens of other countries as Canadian citizens, and that is a certain generosity of spirit that accepts and, if possible, embraces difference. It's not a perfectly-adhered-to principle, but it's there, and as Canadians, we try our best to live up to it. That generosity of spirit would suggest harming others who happen to disagree with your position is simply not acceptable in civilized societies. So yes, any Canadian with dual citizenship who commits a terrorist act should be stripped of Canadian citizenship. Generosity of spirit should quit when violence happens.
Judy
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I wonder about the guys that went to fight Franco and fascists in the late thirties? I don't think anyone now would suggest they were wrong, but at the time they were commies etc. Would they be stripped of citizenship because they supported terrorists? Just wondering.
Stuart
Sydney, Nova Scotia
If a Canadian of dual nationality is convicted of terrorist action by a foreign court it is questionable that the Canadian government should automatically view that conviction as being just. It may be that the foreign court is corrupted by local conditions. There would have to be another process in Canada, presumably at a later date.
On the wider question of what should be the Canadian Government's responsibility for dual citizens, we have the example of the operation mounted during the Lebanese civil war to evacuate Canadian dual citizens from the Lebanon. Questions were asked at that time. My feeling is that dual citizens who do not pay Canadian taxes should be advised that they cannot expect to enjoy the full benefit of Canadian citizenship. Perhaps such people should be given the opportunity to pay federal income tax to establish their status.
Nicholas
Fredericton, New Brunswick
I think we are just over thinking this topic. It does not matter what nationally you are if you commit a crime in a foreign country, do the crime you do the time. You should be judged to the letter of the law in the country of the offence.
Will
Chilliwack, British Columbia
There's a danger of our calling certain activities terrorist but excluding others. Irish charities collecting money to support the IRA, Jewish Canadian groups collecting cash to support the Jewish Defence League, Canadians going abroad to fight in the Spanish civil war; these could all fall under that "supporting terrorism" label but some aren't allowed to be spoken of in the same breath as Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. I've just heard someone saying something similar on air. He's right. Maher Harar may have had his passport pulled if left to Jason Kenny. Let's just hold off on that sort of thing.
Scott
This is a no brainer! We should deny passports to those that commit terror! I'm surprised at some of your callers comments.
Corey
Moncton, New Brunswick
I don't think I've agreed with anything that the conservatives have proposed/done, yet I do agree with this. I am not a born Canadian citizen. Even though I've been here for 35 years, I would not expect the government to treat me that same
as a natural born Canadian, should I be involved in some kind of international 'incident'.
So, not only do I agree with this, but I don't think it goes far enough. If a dual citizen returns to his/her home country and is involved in some kind of 'incident', I think that even in that case, the government should not treat that the same as if it had been a single citizenship Canadian visiting that country and becoming involved in an 'incident'
The thing that upsets me the most in all this, is that I have to agree with the conservatives.
Pete
Ottawa, Ontario
The situation being discussed would not arise if Canada didn't recognize dual citizenship. Why is it O.K to allow some citizens to claim privileges from two countries and maintain the implied divided loyalties .As an immigrant myself I became a full Canadian citizen after the proscribed 5 year's residency and saw it as clear decision to making a full commitment to being Canadian and all the responsibilities involved not an unreasonable expectation in my view for all Canada offers a new immigrant.
Eve
Revelstoke , British Columbia
After listening to the discussion so far, I feel the need to bring up the following points, committing an act of terrorism is a criminal offense - those caught are subject to incarceration under the law. By revoking citizenship, are we denying our citizens the ability to punish under Canadian law? Would these individuals be deported once found guilty or would they remain in Canada as landed immigrants once they have served their debt to Canadian society.
Esme
Surrey, British Columbia
I was born in the USA and came to Canada in 1964. I became a Canadian citizen in 1971, thinking that I was no longer a US citizen. The US Supreme Court made a ruling that US citizens could not lose their citizenship by becoming a citizen of another country unless you had formally renounced your citizenship. In fact we also have to file taxes! So now after all this time I find I am a dual citizen!
Janni
Coleman, Alberta
I would strongly prefer that Canada not offer dual citizenship. I am in favour, strongly in favour, of increased immigration, but only of those who want to commit to our country. Certainly those with dual citizenship should never be allowed to run for public office. And some may forget how dual citizenship has been a whispered (en Francais) comfort to the Parti Quebecoise--having your cake and eating it big time.
Dave
Victoria, British Columbia
My question with this debate is what is the point of this legislation? Is it to prevent terrorism? I think not. Is it to punish those who commit acts of terrorism? It's not much of a punishment if you ask me. This whole discussion is divisive by nature. There is avoidance of the fact this will create two categories. Even though Rex defends this point that it will be a minority of people.
If this law passes and goes forward, all a would be terrorist would have to do is revoke their citizenship of their other country and keep their Canadian citizenship. Now they have a single citizenship and we cannot revoke it. This is not an effective piece of policy.
In fact if a citizen (dual or single) commits an act of terror we should have the laws in place that would address the crime. In fact if they commit an act on foreign soil they should face full consequences of the law of the country they committed the act. This a practical and real perspective that does not create two categories of citizenship.
Fred
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
I think we need to be careful about making any changes without having a great deal of discussion and look at the entire picture. Most of the conversations on the radio right now seems to suggest dual citizenship are questionable. What about Canadians who hold dual citizenship with United States and Americans who hold dual citizenship and live in Canada? If the Iraq war is deemed an act of aggression, what then? Did we not already go through this problem during World War 2 where Germans, Italians and Japanese were interred or detained in some manner?
Gail
Marmora, Ontario
I seem to recall that some countries do not allow renouncing ion of citizenship. What would happen to these people? We have lengthy trials for people charged with murder. Some of the people who are convicted are later exonerated. What are the chances that someone accused of terrorism, and has had their Canadian citizen stripped and been deported, may later be proved innocent? What recourse will they now have as a non-citizen of Canada?
Richard
Edmonton, Alberta
Why do people always assume that Canadians who have dual citizenship chose to be Canadian? Many dual citizens were Canadians first and acquired a second citizenship through marriage or they chose to apply to another country because of birth rights. Canadian born also use passport of convenience. As others have written, Kenney's proposal is a slippery slope. We should all be concerned about what a next Private Member's bill may include.
Christiane
Ottawa, Ontario
Nice to see that some of your callers have their heads firmly still in the 18th century. Most of the European settlers from 18th century didn't have much choice - they had to commit to Canada, because in 17th and 18th century there were no airplanes - so most of them could not afford visit to the old country. So don't make a virtue out of the lack of choice.
As for the repeated, and unchallenged claim that one can't possibly belong to more than one nation - it is equally absurd - do you really want to say that members of the First Nations cannot be also Canadians? Or that Newfoundlanders have to choose whether they consider themselves Newfoundlanders or Canadians?
If anything, in the age of the airplane and global trade, we should encourage the new immigrants to maintain their links with old countries, because they can be the beachheads for Canadian businesses and for our culture and values abroad.
As for the loyalty to Canada - tell me who is committing more to Canada: the person becomes a Canadian by choice, despite that it means leaving their family, friends and familiar culture, or a person born in Canada, who is here by an accident of history (=choice of their ancestors) and stay here because it is more ... convenient - it is easier to stay in the country in which you speak the language and know the culture, and where are your family and friends).
So don't lecture me about the loyalty to Canada.
Piotr
St. John's, Newfoundland
My main worry here - is this just the beginning of a conservative government process to get around the law requiring them to object to the imposition of capital punishment in the cases of murder? Given the poor definition of terrorism - I could see this government defining anyone one commits a murder as being a terrorist - and getting around the court ruling forcing them to act to (to represent or not deport to a country with capital punishment). If the person is no longer a Canadian citizen - can the govermnent then get around this law?
Ken
Calgary, Alberta
This is a terrible idea. Firstly they are only an alleged terrorist until convicted in a court of law. Subsequent to this I doubt that they will be traveling on any passport I would much prefer the philosophy practiced by my parents, the military when I served, and administered to my children by me. When you are away from home, country, or your military unit, you are expected to behave in a manner that is complimentary to your affiliation -- Don't you dare embarrass us. If you do, you will not only be punished by your host, but on your return you will face my wrath; and don't expect my punishment to be limited to what you have just endured from your host.
Don
Ottawa, Ontario
Most of the comments on the Kenney revocable citizenship initiative assume that those with dual citizenship came to Canada as adults. What about those like my 5 year old grandson who was born during the year his mother and father lived in the UK. He has lived in Canada since he was 6 months old. It is a curiosity that he has UK citizenship, in my view. And it would be nothing short of bizarre if some misdeed he might commit as an adult would result in his being declared a non-Canadian. And when I say misdeed: now it's terrorism. Next year it might be 'Un-Canadian Activities".
Tom
Peterborough, Ontario
I despise terrorism in all it's forms and is not the threat of withdrawal of citizenship indeed a form of terrorism? This issue represents the classic thin edge and demans some serious and sober second thought.
Thomas
Orleans, Ontario
Let us say a person has dual US and Canadian citizenship. If both countries wash their hands of him based only an suspicion, what then? He is 50% Canada's problem. It is irresponsible to try to fob that problem off 100% on some other country.
Roedy
Listening to your program today, I find myself responding to the two callers who have made the point that dual citizenship should not be allowed - you are either a Canadian citizen or not. I'd like to point out that for those of us born in the US, yet being naturalized Canadian citizens, we virtually have no choice about retaining our US citizenship. Apparently, being born in the US, or being a child of someone born in the US, means that you ARE a US citizen, unless you renounce it, which is a costly, complex process.I came here in 1970; took my Canadian citizenship in the 1980's, with the willing understanding I was giving up my US citizenship, and with full intent to be an upstanding Canadian citizen. I do not carry, nor wish to carry, a US passport. But the US government considers me a citizen, with the "privilege" of my Canadian earnings and equity being subjected to US tax laws.
As to the question of the day, perhaps there should be more scrutiny of those applying for citizenship to lessen the possibility that their motives are other than becoming good Canadians. While I find it abhorrent that some individuals might abuse their adopted citizenship by committing illegal acts, I think citizenship is an unrevokable matter, unless initiated by the individual themselves.
Kathi
Vancouver, British Columbia
I am surprised that no one has brought up the issue of involuntary dual citizenship.
For example all children of refugees from the Soviet Union born in Canada had dual Canadian/Soviet citizenship whether or not they wanted it up until the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Up until the 1970's sons of Italian immigrants born in other countries who traveled to Italy could be drafted and required to serve in the Italian army, even if they didn't consider themselves to be Italian. Americans cannot voluntarily give up their US citizenship unless they get a letter from the IRS declaring that they don't owe any back taxes. There are a number of people in Canada with dual US/Canadian citizenship who won't give up their US citizenship because they don't want to take a chance of being audited by the IRS first.
Are these the kinds of dual citizens who could have their Canadian citizenship revoked?
Dual citizenship happens whenever two countries consider the same person to be their citizen. It isn't always voluntary and depending upon the laws of the countries involved it cannot always be voluntarily revoked.
I would rather see Canadians who commit terrorist acts spend the rest of their lives in jail, then be stripped of their dual citizenship. There are too many variables involved to really deal with the question of dual citizenship in an easy or fair manner.
Robert
Calgary, Alberta
Your show today has brought up some very interesting points. One: that the conservative government is trying to manipulate what Canadians are thinking about, Two: Canadians can no longer be manipulated by this Conservative government.
I realize, to your frustration, people are veering off topic to give you these points, but Rex it really gives me hope that Canadians are waking up to how the Conservative party operates and they are fed up.In answer to the question, fear mongering by this government is never something citizens should listen to, and as long as Canada has laws that can punish crimes such as this, let the rule of law take care of them. Enjoy your show even when it makes my blood pressure rise:)
Rose
Sheridan Lake, British Columbia
There should be absolutely no permission for any Canadian citizen to be at the same time a citizen of another country. One cannot serve two masters, without favouring one to the detriment of the other. In other words, a Canadian citizen who swore allegiance to Canada and lives here and at the same time is a citizen of another country commits an act of treason and his citizenship should be revoked, unless he gives up the other citizenship. A good example is the present deteriorating situation in the US whose government and financial interests are largely in the control of people who carry dual citizenship and work against the interest of Americans and don't shy away from committing the most heinous crimes.
Rolf
Penticton, British Columbia
This is a really emotive subject a lot of nasty call are coming in, Diverging to other issues IRA etc. I am an Irish Canadian from a republican family and while the original IRA behaved very different way, never harming people but rather the institution;. due to the way freedom fighter groups (d)evolved it ended up that the IRA and other groups started to take up arms in Britain etc, by the way a lot of them in their own, forced upon them country. Northern Ireland
Was all the torture that was visited on the Irish for instance terrorism by the British. That's what it sounded like in the stories I heard in my home.
Anyway I am amazed how so far not one person is in favour of revocation so far.
Bernadette
Halfmoon Bay, British Columbia
Nobody should be allowed to hold duel citizenship. anyone who is not willing to make a small commitment to Canada does not need to be a citizen, they can live and work here as landed immigrants for as long as they wish.
Not long ago immigrants to Canada didn't expect to see there home or family again. That took some commitment.
Edward
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island
I believe we are in danger of greatly oversimplifying this. The fact that there are cases of terrorist that are clearly terrorism (say, "9/11"), does not in any way mean that all, or even a simple majority of, acts of terrorism can be well defined. Soldiers kill innocent civilians - US soldiers who fly drones and kill innocents come to mind. Are they terrorists? What time limit? Nelson Mandela was a "terrorist". Defining who is a terrorist is tough also because few of them are put on trial and convicted. Another question: why terrorism? So a dual national who is a pedophile, say, or a murderer who kills 10 people, is OK, and remains a Canadian, but a "terrorist" who kills 2 is not?
I suggest we should not oversimplify complex issues.
Michael
Oakville, Ontario
It appears this question has been addressed on check-up before in the cases of Zahra Kazimi (the Canadian journalist killed and tortured in Iran as well as Omar Khadr (the child war-terrorist)...I see an terrorism vs. Islamist extremist matter. Not the right of being Canadian.
Jeffrey
Quebec, Quebec
What is the benefit of revoking citizenship within the scope of dual citizenship? Is the idea to make Canada safer? If so, how is dumping the alleged terrorist onto the world going to keep Canada and Canadians safe? And how is it living up to our international responsibilities to our allies and the rest of the world to wash our hands of Canadian citizens who commit acts of terrorism, whatever that means?
Darryl
London, Ontario
How many dual-citizenship Canadian"terrorists" are out there? We've heard about three or four. And the Harper government is talking about passing a law to look like they can do something about it. Would a law really change the actions of a few dual-citizens? Unlikely. This is a political question designed to distract Canadians from issues like the corrupt Senate. If dual- citizenship Canadian terrorists was that much of an issue, it would have been included in one of Harpers omnibus bills!
James
Luskville, Quebec
I am a dual citizen with a background in law. My concern about the proposed legislation is that human beings do not have great track record of getting it right when it comes to determining who has committed an act of terrorism. The case of Maher Arar comes to mind. Going further back in time, I could not help myself from recalling how Japanese Canadian citizens were treated during the Second World War. We have since recognized how wrong this was but it should serve as a reminder to us today to not take away rights to easily. Human nature being what it is, we want to find a scape goat and will judge erroneously in our rush to find one. I agree with one of your previous callers that we should use our own criminal system to bring Canadians accused of having committed acts of terrorism to justice in Canada. This may be the only chance we have to bring them to justice as their other country may not not be so inclined.
As to your other question: I do believe it is important that we become much better at screening people when we allow them to come to Canada. Lets face it, there are many immigrants from countries or indeed faiths (both Muslim and Christian) that are radically at odds with rights and freedoms enshrined in the Canadian Charter. We need to work harder to ensure that people who come to Canada will embrace our fundamental principles, including for example the fact that men and women are entitled to equal rights in this country. We can do much more in our schools and workplaces to explore both the benefits of value differences and, in those instances where there is no way of reconciling values, ensure that the Canadian values trump. We need to stop shying away from conversations about values. This is what is expected from us, a country with 40 years of experience managing multiculturalism.
Tineke
Ottawa, Ontario
It seems to me that Minister Kenny almost immediately started down the slippery slope that has been referred to. Listening to "The House" on CBC radio what I heard was Kenny start his argument by saying that people who carry out an act of terrorism against Canada are de facto declaring their renunciation of their Canadian citizenship. That may make some sense. Then it was pointed out that the recent incident that seemed to bring this issue to light took place in another country, Bulgaria, against citizens of a third country, Israel. Kenny then seemed to slip vaguely into a question of terrorism in general and membership in a terrorist organization, in this case one that was against the state of Israel. So quickly we have moved away from the idea of self-renunciation of citizenship by terrorism against Canada to something more general. With the difficulty sometimes of defining terrorism, I see the possibility of a broader range of actions being used to justify revoking citizenship.
Another thought: Presumably what we would achieve with such a bill would be the saving of some money by, instead of trying and imprisoning someone for terrorism, taking away their Canadian citizenship and ejecting them from the country. We could perhaps do this with dual citizens and not single-citizenship Canadians because we are not allowed to render people stateless (as I understand it).
Finally, the issue of someone being seen as a terrorist in a certain place and a certain time being seen as a hero at another time has already been raised by reference to Nelson Mandela. I think in this particular context (the Bulgarian incident) it is interesting to remember the Zionists deemed terrorists by the British prior to Israel's creation. I believe at least some of these people are held as great heroes today in Israel.
Howard
Delta, British Columbia
One of the most troubling aspects of this proposal is that it encourages us-them thinking in by suggesting that people who come here from other countries have some potential for inherent badness that is unique and that requires unusual responses. If people break Canadian laws, dual passport-holders or not, they can be held accountable before the Canadian criminal justice system.
Deborah
Antigonish, Nova Scotia
I am a Canadian citizen as a result of having been born in this country, and a Swiss citizen as a result of my immigrant parents having had the choice to pass their citizenship on to their children. I have never lived elsewhere, am Canadian through and through, but nonetheless hold dual citizenship - what would happen to me and the many others like me if this proposal was put in place?
Kathy
Nelson, British Columbia
have been listening to some of your show today and many people, especially the lawyer who was on just now, are wrapped up in the nuance and interpretation of what this means with relation to citizenship. I emigrated to Canada in 1972 and have lived in Canada ever since. I became a Canadian Citizen in 1984.
All I can say is, if I were involved in serious criminal activity, terrorist activity or extreme violent acts, I would expect to be unceremoniously escorted to the nearest airport and shipped back to the UK where I came from so many years ago.
I have no problem with the stripping of citizenship from individuals who have arrived in Canada to start a new and presumably better life and then turn out to be involved in terrorism.
If you argue that they are protected by Canadian law and cannot be turfed out, you are creating the impression for those who are planning on indulging in these activities, that Canada is the safe haven to hide behind the law and I think this is a tragic mistake.
Michael
Gloucester, Ontario
The naturalized seem to be like the contract workers in a way, without union behind them. Basically we enter an oath and the government enters none, and it changes laws as it sees appropriate. Then the slippery slope starts; very beautiful. Unfortunately, I learned now Europe is no better on that side. Instructive. The law should define terrorism very clearly which it doesn't. For instance if a Palestinian, say, puts a mine under a Palestinian house being torn down by an Israeli bulldozer a terrorist or not? I do not know and neither do you....There are so many conflicts like that and I give only an example that is better known...
Vinicius
Deep River, Ontario
I feel that Canada should revoke citizen status if a person does not reside in Canada., and /or holds a passport to another country. Terrorist or not, it seems like a Canadian passport is easy for other people to obtain. How many in the Middle East, Africa, and other countries hold Canadian passports? For me to get a passport, the procedure makes me feel like a criminal!! I've lived in Canada all my life, and yet, I cannot vouch for myself! When I listen to the comments by the NDP and Liberals, about "unconstitutional" and other clap trap, I get angry.
Umbach
Lynn Lake, Manitoba
I think terrorists with dual citizenship should absolutely lose their Canadian citizenship. In the first place I disagree that anyone should have more than one citizenship. Either we are Canadian, or we are not!
As one caller suggested, is a Canadian citizenship one of convenience for those who have already pledged allegiance to another country? Make a choice, people! Immigrants can still retain their culture as long as it aligns with Canadian languages, ideals & values such as the on-going challenge of equal rights for women.
With regard to the rights & expectations that come with citizenship, I think this would be a great topic for another day on Cross Country Check-up. What DO we expect as Canadians & what is expected of us?
We hear news stories about "Canadians", some having been in our country for a very short time, finding themselves in a place of war or major disaster, now expect Canada to immediately bring them "home". Canada often is NOT their home, only a convenient way of finding safety...at our expense. Many of these people have never embraced our country, our culture, our home...but merely take advantage of it.
My two children were born in beautiful Norway, so had the choice of Norwegian citizenship. We chose Canadian, and wave one flag proudly.
Kathy
Kimberley, British Columbia
I have no issue with folks having dual citizenship and resist the idea of stripping them of their original citizenship when they become Canadian. It would be like asking a new bride to forsake her family of origin when she marries. Not a good idea... The question of removing their Canadian status in the light of proven terrorism is an interesting one but I think it is a slippery slope. Certainly if we strip them of their original "passport" Canada will be well and truly stuck with them no matter what. It's a complex issue for sure. Not sure a knee jerk reaction will do it or Canadians justice.
Carolynn
Prince Albert, British Columbia
Spanish Civil War.
Many brave Canadians traveled abroad, against the will of the western powers, to fight Hitler, and Mussolini's forces in Spain in the 1930's, while our government strongly opposed these heroic efforts. I think now we know who was on the side of right, their only thanks to then be persecuted by our government. How useful it could have been if their return was barred, they might have ended their days in the Vichy labour camps, like so many of their peers.
Wouldn't this legislation have been the perfect solution to the embarrassing dilemma of the torture and abandonment, and eventual repatriation of Omar Khadr? With a tool like this, perhaps Mahir Arrar could have been written off, and left to rot in a Syrian Gulag as well.
I can certainly see the utility in revocation of citizenship on grounds of political winds.
Garry
Brandon, Ontario
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